'9/11' Special Talkback (Viewer Discretion Advised)

[Vin]

Is anyone going to watch the '9/11' special hosted by Robert Dinero tonight? I've said it before, I lost my uncle, firefighter Matthew Rogan, that day. Firestations in NY got advance copies of the film, which includes unseen video from inside the WTC. Anyway, my sister's friend's father, who is a firefighter, had mentioned that it is very graphic and depressing. Don't let your children watch it. Anyone who is going to watch this, please use discretion.

He said that my uncle might have been in it, because my uncle's company was apparently near where the guys were filming. I think I'll tape it and watch it in a while. I'm not too sure right now. Anyway, just giving you guys the heads up. Thanks.

[James Harvey]

I hope Vince doesn't mind if I morph this abit into the talkback thread for the show, which I planned to put up. I am going to forego the poll (please, no poll) so we can concetrate on discussing the show. I am interested to see replies to this show. It airs tonight at 9pm (ET) on CBS.

[Sumi_Masen]

I was planning on watching it....... and I guess I still will. Sorry again about your Uncle. :(

[Captain Caps]

It might be a little tough, though. My mom lost 2 friends in the attacks.

I hope it's sincere, and not exploitive.

My opinion comes tomorrow...

Sincerely,

John "Captain Caps" Kilduff

[Vin]

Originally posted by Sumi_Masen
I was planning on watching it....... and I guess I still will. Sorry again about your Uncle. :(

Don't be sorry about it. He died doing something he liked to do. He started very young, and was eligible for retirement in a few years. I typed his name in on Google.com and found a ton of articles about him. If you would like to know more about him, click here (http://www.babylonbeacon.com/news/2001/1025/Front_Page/009.html) to read this article. My mother and I are planning on writing a book together about him this summer and hope to get it published by a major publishing company sometime next year.

[Jedigreedo]

Where does it come on and when?

[Vin]

I thought the special was nicely done. It was hard to watch, but it was respectful and not exploitive as some thought it would be.

http://wbc.toonzone.net/vince/mattrogan.jpg

Matthew Rogan
1964 - 2001
Gone, but not forgotten.

[James]

I read the article you linked to. Sometimes it's easy to become detached from the personal nature of such events - especially when you are not directly involved. It's a lot more shocking when you can put a face to the nameless people who lost their lives. The beauty of this sort of forum is that it does bring the issue closer to home. I'm from the UK - even here the ripples from the disaster were felt. I worked at a main London airport and was on my way to work when the Twin Towers were hit, just parking at work when the Pentagon was hit.
I remember the influx of journalists who suddenly appeared brandishing their mobiles desperate to somehow get into the US but were unable to due to the countries lockdown.
For months after I met people who were indirectly involved in the disaster. People who had meant to have been on one of those flights, people still waiting to hear from people who were in the Trade Center at the time, people who had family members who were meant to be in the towers.

While the media is happy to report while it's shocking, it's interest wains as the detached public's does. People move on and to some extent forget what really happened on a practical nature and just remember the socialogical ramifications.

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say as such - or if it's worth the type I'm printing - just that it was an thought provoking article. I hope that doesn't sound insensitive but I can't think of a more appropriate adjective...

I think perhaps the point I'm making is that it shows how much of a global community we have all become - and forums like this are a small part of that - helping us communicate, appreciate and understand the scenerio's that present themselves to the world and occasionally, help us get a better insight into what happened and the effects of such.

As for the programme, obviously we won't get it over here - but I must add that I have been very surprised that in the UK we have not any documentaries yet - exploitive or informative - that I can recall. I thought that being more removed from the scenerio the networks would have attempted a more cynical cash in on the horror. So far this hasn't been the case....... in some ways I rate a forum like this to give a more human and better understanding of such events than documentaries...

Peace.

[Feslmogh]

I have to say they done a good job on the documentory. The only thing that was too graphic was the sound of the people who jumped crashing. Although they did not show it, you can't help wondering whether it was debris or someone. That was the only time I almost wanted to turn the channel.
I know it was hard for someone who lost a loved one to see it all again but this was a story about two filmmakers who wanted to make a documentary about firefighters. Showing them not knowing what the hell is going on outside tower one and the look on their faces is more that words can describe.
I commend CBS on airing the special

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Images_of_WTC/files/With%20Hope%20-%20The%20Fish%20Edition%20%282%29.mp3

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Images_of_WTC/files/SilentNight%20%282%29.mp3

[Terminatah]

I liked the part where the one brother was asking all the firefighters if they knew where his brother was and one of em finally said "Yah, he's behind you," and he looked and there was his brother. :yakko: :wakko:

-Terminatah

[Trent Lane]

That was about as well done a program about the attacks as anyone could've done. A lot of "at the right place at the right time" situations as far as what they were able to catch on video. The priest dying was really tough, and it's really hard to accept that some of these guys on this tape are gone now. The memorial they've come up with seems extremely fitting and hopefully it'll get done...

[James Harvey]

I thought it was brilliantly done. I don't remember being so glued to the television in my life. I don't even think I spoke the entire time when watching this. This was extremely emotional and touching m,ovie. There were times when I was just tearing up when watching this. The ending was great. I was actually worried the entire time that Probbie Tony wouldn't return at the end of the day. This was a great special, and I'm glad that CBS has the guts to air this. It was strong, emtional, and powerful.

[Captain Caps]

I couldn't watch it.

I wasn't frantic crying, but I just didn't have it in me to relive it...

They'll probably repeat it soon...maybe I'll give it another shot then.

Sincerely,

John "Captain Caps" Kilduff

[Vin]

I understand what you are trying to say SJJ. My mother and I would like to write a book about him and show that my uncle and all the firefighters were heroes before the entered the trade center on that fateful day. My uncle meant a lot to me because he was the one person that, if I needed to talk to about anything, even non-serious stuff like tv or whatever, I could talk to. My father and I aren't that close and my uncle filled that void when I needed it. So, the essence of the book would be to show how he was a hero to us long before and hopefully make sure that people won't forget this event, 20, 30, 50, or 100 years from now. It should be a day that should never be forgotten, just like Dec. 7.

I also liked the tribute to the firefighters when Danny Boy played. The picture I showed above was the picture that was used at in the segment. He was one of the last firefighters shown.

[Calhoun07]

I watched about 15 minutes of it and it was really intense. I couldn't imagine it watching it for the entire 2 hours. When I still think about that day, I get tears in my eyes. It's hard. I even made a WTC tribute CD of various songs I downloaded off of WIN MX (and also David Letterman's monologue from the first show after the attack) that is sometimes hard to listen to.

The part I saw last night....
was of the firefighters in the lobby of the first tower that fell. They were trying to find out if people were in the elevators and trying to get them all working. I thought it was so surreal that there were these people trapped in the elevators that had no idea what had happened. They showed some getting out, but I am willing to bet that there were those who were still trapped in the elevators who had no idea what had happened to them, then had the building come crashing down on them. I saw the fire fighters trying to get out at the escelators then the darkness that engulfed them, and the part about the priest that died. The drama and the intensity of that was just overwhelming and I couldn't watch any more.

[Sumi_Masen]

I watched it...... I wanted to turn it off, but somehow I managed to watch it all the way through. Some of the stuff shown made me want to turn off the tv....... I just couldn't bring myself to do that.

I guess I felt like if I watched the whole thing I'd get a better understanding of what the victims went through. It was hard. I cried. And for those of you who know me personally, I don't do that much.

I'm happy CBS showed this, and I'm happy that the rest of the nation actually got to see what happened. They did a good job on the documentary, it was very powerful and emotional.

[Calhoun07]

Question for all those who watched it all the way thru:

Was it censored in anyway? I turned past CBS later on and I know I heard the "f" word. I thought that was very brave of CBS to leave these tapes alone, but was the entire show like that, unedited?

[Alaskanbullworm]

I believe the only thing censored would be dead bodies. The only one shown was that of the priest and you could hear bodies falling. It was hard to watch, but I couldn't stop watching it. I taped it as a reminder of our heroes and what the have done on that horrible day.

[Calhoun07]

I know this might kind of be almost a catch phrase for me when it comes to anything good on TV, but I really want them to put this out on DVD. I mean, if we can get the Clinton trial tapes out, then this deserves to be on DVD. It's an important part of our history and I would want this on a format that would last a while.

[Evil Dr. Reef]

Oh man, I missed it. I really hope this gets re-aired again, or put out on DVD. After all the talkback I've heard here, I really feel like I missed something very important.

[Watagashi]

Originally posted by Evil Dr. Reef
Oh man, I missed it. I really hope this gets re-aired again, or put out on DVD. After all the talkback I've heard here, I really feel like I missed something very important.

Same here. I didn't know when it was on. :(

[Calhoun07]

I hope you're watching the History channel right now. They have a tribute to the Towers on.

[Vin]

Originally posted by Calhoun07
Question for all those who watched it all the way thru:

Was it censored in anyway? I turned past CBS later on and I know I heard the "f" word. I thought that was very brave of CBS to leave these tapes alone, but was the entire show like that, unedited?

Oh, it was definitely edited. The "f" word was used often, but there was a message before it aired that the language was rough because this was the first time these guys were dealing with something like this. These were their emotions and reactions to what was going on.

Death was censored though. The priest that was killed had some debris fall on top of him and hit him on the head. His body was carried out, which was shown, but you obviously, they didn't show the entire body, etc. It was still pretty graphic in the sense and the sound of the people jumping and hitting the ground was horrible. I felt so bad. I just really got upset when the firefighters mentioned that they didn't even find chairs, desks, or even phones in tact, let alone bodies. I didn't want to think about my uncle in that way, but there was definitely no way anything could have surived that collapse. Initially when it happened, I was hopeful. But after time, I lost faith that he was still alive.

BTW, my uncle was in the first building which was shown, since his firestation was near the trade center. He was one of the first on call.

[LightAngel]

Wow, this documentary definently see this tragedy in an all new perpesctive. It was just amazing seeing it from the firefighter's point of view inside of the building. Words can't fully express how this made me feel, it was just so incredible.

[Supernovametalstar]

I saw the picture of the priest that died at an exhibit called "Here is New York" that came to Chicago about a month ago. It was intriguing because aside from a couple of funerals, I have never seen an actual dead person before. It was a sad picture.

I watched the special, and it was well done. Although (and here is where some of you might want to crucify me) I thought the person documenting the events that went along with the firefighters inside the building kind of....chickened out of opportunites to document the event. I'm referring to the part where he said he saw two people on fire running past him and he didn't want to film it. Well, it is part of history, and even though it might be hard to take, it does give you a sense of just how bad it was inside there. Just like how I've never seen a dead body before, I have never seen a person on fire that wasn't a stuntman in all those garbs to protect himself. If people knew just how horrible it is to be on fire then maybe you wouldn't have nutballs immitating stunts from shows and movies thinking they won't get hurt.

[James]

I think it's a fair point. I'm sure many will disagree, but then intelligent discussion is what this is all about - as long as we all remain civil.

From a cold, objective, historical viewpoint, as much documentation should be presented - no matter how disturbing, you can't get past the fact it happened. Such shouldn't be deemed worthy of censorship. Death is death and is no more or less horrible for the families and friends whether they see they're loved ones being burnt/crushed/or falling to their death. Saying that, I'm not saying it should have to be televised, but historically all moments of an event which will have some historical significance should be captured.

However, if the cameraman genuinely didn't want to film such occurances (and I know he said he didn't feel it was necessary), then considering the circumstances, he had done his bit and no more can really be expected of him.

[Vin]

Sorry Supernovametalstar, but I disagree. You'd honestly want to see someone in that type of pain? Yes, I understand what you are trying to say, but just imagine that it was your family member who was that person. Just imagine how you'd feel if you saw your family member on television, burning. I just think that even if the camerman had taped the person burning, it still shouldn't be televised. I was praying to God that I didn't see my uncle in the documentary because I knew it would make me only more upset.

[James]

The human counter-argument. Unstandable standpoint - how about in a historical context? Should such scenes have been videoed not for televised screenings, but from a historical POV?

[Vin]

Originally posted by SJJ
The human counter-argument. Unstandable standpoint - how about in a historical context? Should such scenes have been videoed not for televised screenings, but from a historical POV?

I don't know. I mean, the cameraman was only human. Perhaps he just couldn't film an innocent woman that he couldn't help, just burn to death. How could one just stand there and let one die? Sure she must have been being helped by some firefighters or E.M.T.'s but I certainly wouldn't tape it. I think it's pretty well documented that in that type of situation, in buildings that were struck by not one, but two planes, that people certainly would suffer some form of burns. I don't know. I'm just saying, from my perspective, if I was in the camera man's shoes, I certainly wouldn't film a person in a pain like that, regardless of it would become historical materical. I doubt that the camera man thought he was going to make a documentary that could go down in history at the time he was doing it. When the towers were attacked, NO ONE knew they were going to collapse. No one. That being said, I think he continued to film the firefighters doing what they do best.

[The Old Maid]

I avoid "radio personalities" but I agree with one I heard by accident. He commented that the special declined to be as graphic as it could have been. Bad words, yes, but maybe in this case bad words were made for bad things. They didn't show any specific person dying. The photos of Father Judge weren't even taken by this film crew but were re-used photos from the first day.

I remember when Newsweek published a special fundraiser issue for that day. It included one photograph of people falling to their deaths. Later the letter columns were filled with writers who excoriated the magazine for printing such a picture. They commented (and I agree) that it violated the victims' right to privacy. One writer said "This was a deeply personal moment between the victim and God, and you had no right to show them in the actual process of dying" or some such. I would say this is true of the ladies on fire too. Human decency. It's best that the crew chose not to film that, indeed that he couldn't even look at it.


Originally posted by Vincent Benenati
My mother and I would like to write a book about him and show that my uncle and all the firefighters were heroes before the entered the trade center on that fateful day.

Yes. In fiction and in life, I find groupies/parasites/wannabes annoying. Wannabes assume they can skip from dream directly to reward, and in thinking so they totally miss the point. Wearing a uniform does not make you a hero. The uniform is worthy of respect because heroes have worn it.

The uniform just brings out more of what's already in you. Your uncle and his friends are proof of that.

[Clank]

Every time I see a corpse (That didn't die of natural causes.) in the news, all I think about is, "I hope none of their family happens to stumble across this while channel surfing." Do I really need to see shots of a woman that has been raped and stabbed to death, just because TLC is doing a story on how her rapist, murderer was caught? I think I don't. I know these photos need to exist as evidence, and I'm not saying a camera man should turn his lens away from a gruesome scene. But I think there are times in our lives when deserve privacy and compassion. If my last moments on earth consists of me being consumed by fire through no fault of my own, I'd appreciate a little discretion being used when deciding wether or not to air it. I don't want to see footage of anyone I know die just because they had the misfortune to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Supernovametalstar]

Originally posted by Vincent Benenati
Sorry Supernovametalstar, but I disagree. You'd honestly want to see someone in that type of pain? Yes, I understand what you are trying to say, but just imagine that it was your family member who was that person. Just imagine how you'd feel if you saw your family member on television, burning. I just think that even if the camerman had taped the person burning, it still shouldn't be televised. I was praying to God that I didn't see my uncle in the documentary because I knew it would make me only more upset.

I guess it's my own unique perspective, since I found out that my grandmother was missing and later found dead in a forest preserve on the news when I was 10. If I hadn't seen it, no one would have told me. They didn't even want me to go to the funeral, but seeing death actually let me understand life a little better. I wasn't trying to sound like a warmonger or something like that when I said that. I always think back to old footage of wars like Vietnam or WW1 and WW2, the Holocaust, and the fallout from the atomic bombs and I wonder "if no one had filmed this, would anyone really know what went on here?"

[Feslmogh]

Originally posted by Calhoun07
I know this might kind of be almost a catch phrase for me when it comes to anything good on TV, but I really want them to put this out on DVD. I mean, if we can get the Clinton trial tapes out, then this deserves to be on DVD. It's an important part of our history and I would want this on a format that would last a while.

I Think It Is on dvd... (searching the web)...Can't find that site...