Justice League "The Brave & the Bold, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jl/talkback.jpg (http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jl/)

Episode #14 - The Brave And The Bold, Part 1
Original Airdate - March 10th, 2002

Flash and Green Lantern stumble upon Gorilla Grodd and a plot against the secret "Gorilla City".


Episode #15 - The Brave And The Bold, Part 2
Original Airdate - March 17th, 2002

Flash must stop Gorilla Grodd while Green Lantern attempts to disarm warheads.

Comments?

[Clark J. Kent]

WARNING!! This thread contains spoilers! Turn back now if you don't want the episode spoiled! There will be no second warning!

At this point in JL history, we've seen 5½ story-arcs, and twelve individual episodes. Out of them all, (although I thought that nothing would top The Enemy Below,) part one of The Brave and the Bold is the best I've ever seen.

Words cannot describe the episode I've seen tonight. I loved everything about it. All the underlying references to all the events in comics... Flash's head being really huge, Flash turning into a puppet on strings, turning into an ape, a glimpse of his origin. Spectacular!

I loved the fact that not all the League was included in this episode. I think we needed that. A break from Superman and J'Onn was welcome.

I loved the girls wanting Flash to shut up. I loved the dropping of "Solomon Grundy." I love Flash doing something substantial with his powers like saving the people from the falling rubble. I loved the use of showing everything else slow a la Carmine Infantino. I loved this episode to death!

:eek: I even liked Green Lantern.

My one complaint is the way they depict Flash's speed. He just does not look fast. If they slowed down everything else and showed him running like a human, that'd be fine. Or if they just made him one big red blur, I'd like that too. But they're trying to draw his every step, and that's really ruining the effect. We're not supposed to see how fast Flash moves. He's supposed to be too quick for the eyes.

God, I might add more later. But right now, I'm stunned at how good that episode was. Kudos to the writers!! We missed you, Dini! And good work McDuffie!!

And did anyone think about "Barry Allen" when we saw the blond cop in the station?

Creators, are you listening? Give us more episodes EXACTLY LIKE THIS.

[BatKid]

I hope this episode is much better than the disappointing War World Part I episode. I loved the part in the commercials where Flash gave about 20 hamburgers to GL and jetted off somewhere. Gorilla Grodd also seems to be an interesting villain in this episode. I heard that Bats would show some emotion towards Diana in this arc, and I think this would be an interesting moment between the both of them.

[TheHuntressDiana]

. . . Grundy! :cool: Hehe . . . here come the villians!


And I have to say, I'm impressed with the falling building rescue.

Okay, commercials are almost over...be back later...

[The Green Hornet]

HOLY COW


This episode is *GREAT* FANTASTIC AMAZING

the begining with the Flash was just FUN, glimpsing his origin was too cool, its had pretty good dialogue, good animation and so far an interesting plot. his use of making a tornado was awesome, as is the reference to his hyper-metabolism. reminds me of the live action show on CBS

and for anyone whos about to complain that he couldnt catch that truck, the answer is he could-- but he was having TOO MUCH FUN!!

if the rest of the episode is as good as this is so far, its gonna easily own the crown as king of justice league eps so far :D


WOW WOW WOW

FIVE STARS

flash using his powers well, GL doing something with his ring other than a simple blast

THIS EPISODE HAD EVERYTHING but superman whuping Mongul as he should have last time ;)

this episode has totally shown me the potential of JL to be a GREAT show

whomever wrote this episode has my thanks

in a post on the Batman Superman and Beyond board, i said that i always smiled when watching STAS and i never knew why-- this epsiode left me smiling in just the same fashion

[Bird Boy]

That was great! I loved every minute of that episode.....wow..that was just a extremely FUN episode to watch... I want more!! :D

-BB

[The Flash]

Wow, that was a GREAT surprise!! Can't wait till next week now. :D

[Batman 80]

What was Grodd like?

[Borg4of3]

Great lines, great animation, great story, great villain ( a talking monkey, what kind of threat is that), great characterization, great writing, great (and hilarious) vs-match between GL and Flash, great Gorilla City flashback, great... uh lots more things!

Great episode overall! Who wrote it, Paul Dini :p ? My fave lines for the night:

"And you didn't want us to give him our number"
"Get your paws off me, you stinking human!
"Look, we have a martian's number on our speed dial; can't you just give me the benefit of the doubt?"
"Ouch! Was that really necessary?"
"I'm pretty sure the two of us can take down one big, dumb gorilla"
"I hate bananas"

More later!

[The Green Hornet]

a big black supersmart gorilla
we really didnt see too much of him until the end

he beat lantern flash and soldivar though

he'll play a big part in part 2

[TheHuntressDiana]

Was it just me, or did anyone else laugh out loud when Lantern smacked him upside the head and said, "What were you thinking?"

Hahahahaha!


The banana bit was good too. :D

[Joker85]

Dangit, I missed it. Could someone please tell me if it comes on later tonight. Or some other time during the week.

[Domino]

I liked this episode. The plot was better, and there was a tip of the hat to several Silver Age Flash comic covers, as promised.

Just one problem. The Flash can dodge ray blasts, but takes two minutes to catch a speeding truck weaving through traffic?? If he isn't running fast enough to catch the truck, then he sure has heck couldn't run on the side of a vertical wall!!

I realize that this chase was done with dramatic license, but come on, guys. You can do better than this.

[Borg4of3]

LOL! That entire conversation after Lantern posted bail was unbelievably hilarious!

Here's to great dialogue! :cheers!:

[The Green Hornet]

as i pointed out in my post above, it strikes me that he wasnt TRYING to catch the truck completely-- did you see the smile on his face the whole time? he was having fun

see superman or GL would have gone straight to take the truck out, but thats not how Flash plays the game =)

[TheHuntressDiana]

I didn't really mind the extended truck chase.

Yeah, it was for the drama of it all....but it had to be done. Anything "easy" in this show would just be boring.

[Wing Zero]

Yea that truck chasing was about the only thing that slightly bothered me. Otherwise, everything else was great :)

[Harvey Dent]

Say, did anyone else's TV screens go blank for about 5 seconds during the first chase sequence?


Thoughts:


Paul Dini does it again. Damn, I wish this guy was a producer on the show!
I like that Wally's origin was shown. Nice touch.
The Flash running animation still looks funny to me. It looks like he's running at normal speeds with a blurry effect.
I'm pretty sure they were in Central City, but the police cars had the same markings as the Metropolis PD. Strange...
Green Lantern continues to grow on me.


If Part II is anywhere near as good as Part I, I think this may rival "The Enemy Below" as my favorite story so far this season.

[Batman 80]

Did they show a preview for part 2?

[The Green Hornet]

then it wasnt just my tv that blanked

i about had a heart attack thinking that i wasnt gonna get to see the episode ;)

anyway since we saw wally in a lab, does that mean he works for central city PD a la Barry? i thought i saw a look of recognition or something on his face when he realized where he was

btw

PAUL DINI IS GOD

[Borg4of3]

Man, I just can't over this strange giddy feeling for watching this episode :D. When is the next showing?

On the truck chase, Green Hornet has a point, and Lantern probably saw it the same way with his terse and belittling reply to Flash's "I could have handled it,"

My screen went black too, but we didn't miss too much. Only problem was that, when it turned black again when the camera switched to the inside of the truck, I was about to stand up and curse Cartoon Network. My bad!

And Paul Dini DID write this ep?! That explains mucho!

On next ep's preview: Chances are Perry White or the other mods'll put up a preview very, very quickly. Just wait a few more seconds :p

[Domino]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
as i pointed out in my post above, it strikes me that he wasnt TRYING to catch the truck completely-- did you see the smile on his face the whole time? he was having fun

see superman or GL would have gone straight to take the truck out, but thats not how Flash plays the game =)

Then the Flash was irresponsible and put the lives of innocent people in danger with his recklessness. But at least he was having fun! :rolleyes:

[Knight]

I orginally didnt have high hopes for this episode so i was very surprised at how good it was.
Excellent dialog.
A brief peak at the orgin of The Flash.
Good action.

[TheHuntressDiana]

The comment about Flash's speed and visuals... I think they do it that way so you don't get sick watching it. I know that lots of flashing in animation (constant) bothers me greatly...so that might be an explination. Maybe. :)


And when the TV went black... It was as if billions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and then sighed in relief when the picture came back. hehe ;)


Yeah, I think it was a CN glitch...I'm sure we didn't miss much.

[The Green Hornet]

Then the Flash was irresponsible and put the lives of innocent people in danger with his recklessness. But at least he was having fun


if memory serves wally had this problem initially in the comics as well

he wasnt serious and peoples lives WERE in danger

[Brian Cruz]

I'd just like to point out that while the story was by Paul Dini & Rich Fogel, the script was written by Dwayne McDuffie, who I'm certain is reading this post at this very moment. Hi Dwayne!

[The Green Hornet]

then DWANE is a god as well


how do you enter the pantheon which i worship? simple

GIVE ME GOOD JUSTICE LEAGUE, STAS and BTAS-- and some Gargoyles too =)

[Batman 80]

How did Grodd's voice sound?

[Ed Liu]

Howdy all,

Story by Paul Dini. Teleplay by Dwayne McDuffie. The Flash and Green Lantern, a pairing of heroes with some serious history behind them. A classic "hero suspected of a crime" plot device. And talking gorillas with ray guns and mind control devices and super technology.

Really, what more do you need?

Watching this episode reminded me of how I felt when I first read Grant Morrison's first JLA arc or any issue of Kurt Busiek's Astro City. All of them manage to take the oldest stories in the superhero book and revive/reinvent them for a modern audience without ever losing sight of the oversized goofiness and fun inherent in the exercise. It's comforting in its familiarity, while managing to inject enough new elements to make the exercise seem fresh.

Stuff I really liked:

- The sequence where the Flash saves the couple on the street. I was waiting for a Flash-whirlwind. I also dug him running up and down walls.

- The detective who was grilling the Flash. I just liked the concept that not everybody considers the JL to be sterling heroes, and that the Flash especially would draw negative attention.

- The bit where the Flash tosses off his handcuffs. WE all know how that happened. A nice nod to the comic fans, IMO.

- The interaction between GL and the Flash. "Thanks for sticking up for me." >THWAP!< Heheheh.

- Talking gorillas with ray guns and mind control devices and super technology. Really, what's not to like?

- GL belting the Flash. Yeah, we all know Flash should have been able to dodge that with his eyes closed (more on that later), but it made for good comedy. I'm fine with the depowering for that purpose alone.

- The humor. This is an element that has been missing from JL for the most part. It also had Paul Dini's fingerprints all over it (not to denigrate Dwayne McDuffie's teleplay, of course). The "Mojo Jojo" reference was hilarious.

The one thing that bugged me throughout the episode was that the Flash seemed awfully slow, relatively speaking. Both times when he got decked, you'd think he'd have been able to dodge, and the fact that he didn't catch up with the truck of isotopes (note I say didn't, not couldn't) was another instance of how he just doesn't seem as fast as he is in the comics.

Of course, I always thought that the Flash's power works far better in the comics than in any kind of "live" media (animated or live-action), since the comic panel has the unique ability to pace time arbitrarily; a page of comic art can span for nanoseconds or years, depending on what the writer needs. In the comics, you have the time to have the Flash perform amazingly intricate feats with his speed, or think things out and explain them, even though what's happening occurs in the blink of an eye. You just don't have that luxury when you're running at 24-frames-a-second. So, while it irks me as a comic fan that the Flash has been depowered, I understand the difficulties in showing his powers well in the format.

In any event, I thought this was easily the strongest first episode of the series so far. Let's just hope they don't pull another "War World" and blow it all in part 2.

Now if we can talk the producers into doing "JLApe" next season...

-- Ed/Ace

[BeastBoyWonder]

This is the first episode of Justice League that I was pleased with all around...especially the "Mojo" reference. :D After watching an episode of BTAS right after, I saw they both had the same elements...multidimensional, original plots and good character development. The Flash has gone down as one of my favorite characters. His personality is so unique that it captivating to watch him in action. He's different than Batman, but entertaining nonetheless.

[The Green Hornet]

one thing i found VERY interesting was that unlike what we see in the comics, Flash CANT turn or STOP on a dime

if you noticed there were multiple times he skidded or had to do a swing around

very nice i think

[Ed Liu]

Howdy all,

One other note. While I liked the whole "Flash-back" sequence (har har har), I was left kind of wondering, "What the HELL was that all about?" by the end of it. Just kind of felt out of place, even though it was pretty cool.

-- Ed/Ace

[The Green Hornet]

well its what happens to anyone when their mind is being controled i guess.....

:D

reminded me of a Loony Toons cartoon but i cant remember which one

also KIND of reminded me of the episode of BTAS where he met the Scarecrow and revisited his origin and gave that pithy little line "i am the vengance etc etc"

[JohnStewart-GL]

I thought it was a fun ep. i enjoyed seeing the Flash save the day in the beegining. Flash is such a ladiesman. i like how he and john interacted. but to me the best part was the Green Lantern VS Flash fight. it was funny, especially when Green Lantern punched him.

[ZorBrak]

the episode itself was top notch! the only problem I have is that the stupid CN broadcast had a glitch or something and it interupted during the chase scene, so now I will have to get another tape, thanks for making me lose 2.99 and making me spend 2.99 more CN!

[BeastBoyWonder]

I love the way we can put the pieces together before the characters do...I'm sure you all knew what was going on well before it was revealed with the Flash's brainwashing...I am astounded at the caliber of this episode. It was hilarious, too.

[Borg4of3]

My thoughts on the flashback sequence. When Grodd's mind control devices take hold, your real mind has to be taken somewhere. They delved into past memories (the origin story), and greatest fears (a slow and fat Flash). Of course, dreams aren't very stable things, so thats with all that randommness. Still, very, very entertaining delving into the psyche of a hero!

Doh, Hornet, you beat me to it.

And another thing - it doesn't seem like one being mind controlled isn't very 'quick' (har har :p ), since during the GL/Flash fight, Flash was firing that laser doing nothing for about an hour, and I'm pretty sure if the laser didn't do anything, banana peels wouldn't do that much more. Hehe, Another cool scene!

[Karkull]

The Good

A spotlight on the Flash, plus some flashbacks to his prior adventures. A cameo by Barry Allen (there was too much detail on the face for him to be a generic background character) and by "Cousin Spunky" from the BTAS episode Baby Doll (he was in the background in the jail cell sequence--another child star gone bad!). The Flash calling Solovar "Mojo" [Jojo]. The interplay between the Flash and Green Lantern. Grodd's voice.

And the script seemed to go somewhere, :cool:.

The Bad

The police automatically assumes that the Flash was guilty. Sure, he may have saved us before, but this is different! Grodd's helmet was a little goofy too.

The Ugly

Cartoon Network's "technical difficulties." Now I have to tape it again!


Next week's should be good.

[The Green Hornet]

was it me or did anyone else expect the banana to actually pierce GL's shield and break his headband? i guess that would have been the test of whether he's weak to Yellow -- judging the fact it didint, i guess it doesnt =)

also about the police thinking Flash was guilty-- did anyone else half expect to see Harvey Bullock himself come out and give the flash the 3rd degree? :D

[Borg4of3]

Grodd's helmet allows him to really stand out amongst all those gorillas, and I thought it was pretty techno-ornate! As for the detective, with all the property damage that Flash usually fails to prevent (or causes himself), I bet most of the folks around him really despise him. And he does seem just as public (if not moreso) than Superman, so they probably realize how much of a jerk he really can be!

[JohnStewart-GL]

i think this is the most good we've had said about an ep.

[The Green Hornet]

JohnStewart-GL i think this is the most good we've had said about an ep.

could that be because this is hands down their best work for JL to date?

:D :D :D :D

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet


could that be because this is hands down their best work for JL to date?

:D :D :D :D
its gotta be :D

is it me or did than lady look kinda like Diana? i even believe sue eisenberg did the voice

[ZorBrak]

Originally posted by Karkull

The Ugly

Cartoon Network's "technical difficulties." Now I have to tape it again!




Yeah I hear ya, they never have problems on their sacred "scooby" (does a mockingly whiney voice) but then have probs on their best show and THEN I have to wait till next weekend to tape it ARGGGGGGHHHHH!!!

[The Green Hornet]

you mean the scientist woman i take it (not the babes Flash was working on in the diner)

yeah it kind of sounded like her

[Dwayne McDuffie]

Originally posted by Brian Cruz
I'd just like to point out that while the story was by Paul Dini & Rich Fogel, the script was written by Dwayne McDuffie, who I'm certain is reading this post at this very moment. Hi Dwayne!

Okay, reading that post sort of reminded me of the moment in Rear Window when Raymond Burr looks right at the camera.

[metaphysician]

I have to agree with the commentary so far: this episode is damn good.

Hell, I don't even think Enemy Below got this level of essentially unqualified praise.

Maybe this is the key: focus on fewer characters, less cosmic of a dilemma, and more humor.

IOW, lets cut down on the space stories.

[Batman 80]

Space stories are cool. Its the magic based ones that bother me.

[Borg4of3]

Hehe, note the 10 minute pause after the great Mr. McDuffie arrives! We bow in silent awe of your presence oh great redeemer of the JL show!

I think the true grace of this episode are the intelligent characters. There are just too many great lines and scenes to mention, and all of them perfectly on character. It is possible to do that with more characters, but, as this episode shows, I kinda rather like it this way!

that, and no plot gas, no heroite, no idiot plots... I LOVE IT!

[Batman 80]

Didn't Nothing say that Batman and Diana were going to be in this story arc?

[daedalus222]

Yep--I have to say I didn't think I would like this episode. But, dayam this was good. Thanks to Dini (after all this time that I have been cursing JL I hope that some of you super defenders of the show recoginie just how poorly it is without the influence of Dini) and McDuffie (this brother can write and while I;m not a huge fan of Static Shock I have found the dialogue better than anything on JL and this cat has apparently written a few more episodes as well--forthcoming--thanks GOD!!!)

My favorite parts of this ep:

the dialogue....oh!! Witty dialogue---how long has it been??? I actually liked Rosenbaum's Flash this ep beacsue of better lines.

Flash's unique use of power (escaping the handcuffs and the wind vortex save of the interracial couple...how great was that!!)

GL--who I have thought was cool in every ep (at the very least a defined personality in a sea of mediocrity like FLash, Supes and so on) and here he not only gets some genuinely funny lines but he decks Flash in a particularly cool fight.

NO ridiculous depowering of Supes, useless behavior of Batman or plot gas issues to affect MM.

Finally, the story...not hackneyed...not cheesy but a solid---firm adventure story with a logical beginning , actual great cliffhanger (sorry but the best 2 part eps so far IMO are Enemy Below and WW 2-parter and both ahd ridiculous cliffhangers--in fact none of the eps hs had a truly convinvcing cliff hanger the likes of which were done with ease between friggin COMMERCIAL Breaks by Dini on the old shows.

I am praying a LOT MORE CONFIDENTALLY that the 2nd part will match the 1st. If so we will have for once an excellent story arch in the JL 1st season (which IMO is prety easy depsite how cool Aquaman was inEnemy Below I found the pacing and overall fnal fight between he and his brother --why didn;t Aquaman seem a lil more vengeful than that cheesy line about "I think this is mine" and the WW 2 -parter is only memorabel for the awesome Hades fight albeit the ridiculous uses of Superman in it).


I know JL has been renewed (which I can only hope althouh I feel like a wounded kid and certainly am not confident in Timm's commitment to make something better) and can only pray McDuffie and Dini and not Timm's previosu JL writing choices--get more chances. Was Rich Fogel involved with War World? If so, instantly my interest in him is through the toilet ----what am awful awful exercise in screwing up classic characters and creating an inane storyline.

Dayam the future is looking bright....

[TheHuntressDiana]

They were?

I didn't read anything that said Bats and WW would be in this story arc...

[Memphis Bleek]

Another good episode. Flash talking to the chicks was funny. This episode showed Flash inability to slow down. The way they introduced Gorilla Grodd was good. The Solomn Grundy name dropping was unexpected. My problem with this episode and all the other episodes so far is that Phil Lamarr (GL) is voicing too many characters. Did any else experience a blackout of the episode for about 15 seconds during the first two minutes of the show.

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by Dwayne McDuffie


Okay, reading that post sort of reminded me of the moment in Rear Window when Raymond Burr looks right at the camera.
good job Dwayne

[Borg4of3]

Even Daedulus likes!?! :p Hehe, of course, since all the problems of past episodes don't exist in this one!

I'm glad you brought up that cliffhanger thing, because that was just plain out awesome! At first, I thought it would be that Gorilla Bomb someone mentioned - the one that turned humans into gorillas. I am so glad they didnt do that - and who the heck can tell what happend to Central City!

Its too bad Injustice for All didn't show before this, so we could know just exactly Flash did to Solomon Grundy (tho I'm sure he didn't throw banana peels at him :cool: ).

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
you mean the scientist woman i take it (not the babes Flash was working on in the diner)

yeah it kind of sounded like her
yea her

[The Guard]

This was a great episode. I think, in part, because it was scaled down. Less characters to balance, and a less epic plot.

The thing that bothered me most, was that Gorilla City had WEAPONS. They are supposed to be ABOVE the barbarism of men.

It was VERY convenient that a car flew toward the cafe Flash is in.

WHY CAN'T FLASH CATCH UP TO A STUPID TRUCK DOING 70 TOPS, yet he can run fast enough to LEVITATE rock?

Chin and Stevens had the exact same wallets!!!

I guess the cops and SWAT carry net guns now. Coool.

We see now how he got his powers. And that he IS Wally West. That's red hair on that man who got struck.

No miranda rights when they questioned Flash.

DAMN! I thought we'd get to see Flash on coffee. :)

How does an ape apply a PAPER CLIP???

"How-" "You blinked." Great line. Delivered perfectly

Grodd sounded AWESOME! So did SOLOVAR!

The fight scene where GL kept trying to put Flash in a bubble was cool.

Flash throwing bananas at GL was great.

GL punching Flash was GREATER.

[Naraht]

damndamndamn, once again....I forgot it was on...but I only missed the 1st 5-7 minutes. though, that had the big chase scene, and a CN glitch,...eh, I'll catch it in WideScreen on Saturday..(well, the good stuff, they can leave the glitch out..)

I enjoyed the ep, and it proves my point (ok it doesn't...cause one episode doesn't make a rule) that less characters == better story. Duos & Trios are the way to go. Like Maxie was saying about War World...leave out MM, and the story would have been better.


Good job Dwayne...like everyone else, I thought the dialouge was terrific!


BTW - was it just me..or did the bananas get through...being yellow....


Dwayne, maybe you can tell us if GL is still hindered by the color yellow?

[Frank White]

WOAH! What are great episode! Nothing wrong with it. The dialouge has been the best of all the episodes IMO. The line about stealing paper clips from the Watchtower was funny. This ep. makes me have hope for a Flash animated series.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Memphis Bleek
. My problem with this episode and all the other episodes so far is that Phil Lamarr (GL) is voicing too many characters. .

Who else did he voice in this episode?

[DerekPowers]

well, i missed alot of this ep. i had to tape it and my roommate accidentally turned it off in the middle, and there was like a 5min laps before he realized and started re-recording. I missed the part starting from like 30 secs into the gorrilla city flashback till the part where the good gorrilla and gl bust in on grodd, the scientist, and flash.

but from what i saw, i have to say i liked it very much. i liked the big character developments w/ flash and gl, i liked alot of the dialogue (especially the flash remark about having a martian's number on speed dial), and the ep over all was nicely animated. it felt alittle more like the old bats and supes series, maybe because it didnt take place in outer space.

my only real problem with it was the obvious similarity to planet of the apes. i assumed this whole concept in the flash comics came before planet of the apes, but i could be wrong. anyone know for sure, cause if it came after pota, its a rip off, but if not, its cool but it sucks most people watching it would think its a rip off.

but i really liked it. it wasnt predictable like most jl eps, it had nice dialogue, nice animation, a good plot and was overall quite good. and like i said, the fact that it took place on earth, with actual humans (as opposed to aliens) in the supporting roles (i warmed up to that scientist quickly cause its been a while since there was a human in a major suporting role). cant wait for part 2.

[Clark J. Kent]

We don't need Dwayne for that. The Enemy Below had John survive a yellow blast with the green shield still intact. And that the the bananas hit him without breaking the green energy is another testimony to the fact that John can take yellow.

I wish he couldn't. That would make him a little more interesting. But oh well.

[Dark Knight]

I normally dont like the throw my 2 cents in until both parts have aired but what the heck.

I'm astonished that that even the usual nitpickers have given a JL episode credit! Congratulations Dwayne McDuffie, you've done what no other writer could accoplish! It seems theres nothing truly bad to gripe about.

I also really liked this episode. I dont know if it was as far above everything else as some people are making it out to be, but the dialogue definately was.

My only conceivable complaint was GL's continuing use of nothing but Spheres, walls, and beams. This is the first time we've seen him use his ring so much in one episode and its really starting to bug me that he can't do anything else. Its kind of a waste of his power.

All in all though I love his character and Flash's all the more after that. Really cool. And Grodd is awesome too. Theres already a lot more to him than just being an evil super intelligent Gorilla (as if that isnt enough! ;) )

[B.W.H.]

At one point I thought the gorilla who helps Gl and TF was in gohooots With Gord boy was i wrong i give it a perfect 5 oh yeah TF dream in this episode looked so wierd we also got to see wally west. :cool:

[Clark J. Kent]

Here's what I'd like to know...

Who ranked this episode ** and *½ and didn't have the nerve to explain why publically?

[The Green Hornet]

you beat me to it clark
im interested in who had that many problems with it and what those problems were

[Karkull]

The only real problem I had with the episode (which I just thought of) was the opening sequence. It was a little corny.

And no, it wasn't me, :D.

[The Green Hornet]

the part before the opening theme?

yeah ill agree to that-- seemed very out of place

[The Guard]

My only conceivable complaint was GL's continuing use of nothing but Spheres, walls, and beams. This is the first time we've seen him use his ring so much in one episode and its really starting to bug me that he can't do anything else. Its kind of a waste of his power.

I think it makes a lot of sense. He was working against The Flash. You don't have a whole lot of time to think in most situations GL is in. And he's not a showboater. Or an artist. He doesn't NEED to use a giant baseball glove to stop flash. Just a bubble to hold him.

[The Green Hornet]

This is what a home run looks like!

AMEN!

[Maxie Zeus]

Like Dark Knight I don't like commenting until both parts are in, but--

That was incredible! 5 stars, easily. Can't wait to see the conclusion.

Congrats to all who worked on it: Fogel, Dini, Dwayne (are we on a first name with you yet? :D ), Riba, Timm . . . I guess I could go on but I wouldn't know where to stop.

This is what a home run looks like!


Originally posted by Karkull
The only real problem I had with the episode (which I just thought of) was the opening sequence. It was a little corny.

What?! That was excellent -- set the tone for the whole ep. As soon as that woman stuck her head up and said, "Did I miss something?" I knew I was in good hands. :p

ADDED: Heh. I did some editing. That's why Green Hornet look clairvoyant when quoting a post of mine that comes after his. :D

[Knight]

Originally posted by Clark J. Kent
We don't need Dwayne for that. The Enemy Below had John survive a yellow blast with the green shield still intact. And that the the bananas hit him without breaking the green energy is another testimony to the fact that John can take yellow.

I wish he couldn't. That would make him a little more interesting. But oh well.

But hes been affected by Yellow gas and Grodds device gave off a yellow aura that Green Lantern appeared unable to stop in the least. He's vulnerablity to yellow substances has been inconsistant.

[The Green Hornet]

well the energy could have been TREMENDOUS

and the gas-- well knockout gas is always green or yellow :)

actually maybe it depends on the AMOUNT of yellow
a simple banana couldnt hit him (maybe there were some brown/black spots on it)

but a massive blast of yellow energy he couldnt handle

[The Guard]

That's not knockout gas. It's PLOT GAS! EVERYONE is vulnerable to plot gas.

[The Green Hornet]

That's not knockout gas. It's PLOT GAS! EVERYONE is vulnerable to plot gas.


true

i forgot plot gas is always green or yellow, depending on the weakness of the hero ;)

[Batman 80]

This was a great episode! I loved the music they were playing when Flash was chasing the van at the beginning. And Grodd was VERY cool, especially his voice and demanor.

[The Green Hornet]

flash's music *WAS* pretty cool

honestly there wasnt a moment of this episode i didnt enjoy

[MWilburyJr]

Originally posted by Clark J. Kent
Here's what I'd like to know...

Who ranked this episode ** and *½ and didn't have the nerve to explain why publically?

I don't normally post any sort of reviews as much of it becomes redundant, but since you called me out. . .

Although I have been a little disappointed with the JL toon (in every episode but enemy below pt 2 and both blackest nights), I still love the show and can appreciate it for what it is. It has truly fabulous moments.

With this episode, I found the truck chase a bit irritating, and was not impressed by the tornado save (quite the opposite). The dream sequence was very cool for the comic geek in me, but was a little TOO out of place. Also, the way the gorilla city thing is handled . . . accepted too easy. I realize this is a tribute to the silver age, but was a little too silly for my taste.

SO, I gave this episode a **1/2 because: While I found the episode a very enjoyable watch, I didn't find it the least bit exciting.

Nevertheless, I send my thanks to McDuffie, Dini, Timm and company for their fine work in this and so many other half hours.

[GL2k2]

There was no doubt in my mind that "Brave and the Bold" would be one of the best, if not the best. Dwayne McDuffie is a bad a** writer, and I've been reading Milestone from day one, so I know this. I like the little inuendo to Luke Cage Power Man (The Head Band). Yeah, Dwayne definitely brings out the fact that it ain't budget or voice acting, it's writing. Good work, Dwayne, now maybe people will support Static Shock, huh?

[The Green Hornet]

did you notice how the quality of voice acting rose considerably as the script quality level rose?

[Tracer]

OK, let me start out by saying that this is my second favorite ep. so far; Enemy Below still leads. The writing was intelligent, the animation was Excellent and the characters interacted well. My only complaint is still the Flash.

He is one of my all time favorite Characters (All you Batman haters, don't want to know who's my number one :)

I still cringe every time he is on the screen. I once read a feedback letter in a Flash book that was answering some of the complaints/complications about writing for the Flash. To sum it up, he said, (it is incredibly difficult to write for someone who can move at nearly light speed. Who/what do you put him against? he can hit you 600 time before you raised you hand and with the speed he can do it he could logically defeat most everyone in the DC universe. It would be impossible for anyone to lay a hand on him much less put him down...)

I think JL still suffers from that problem. How do you write for someone this fast and keep it interesting, logical & "realistic". I can understand the problem but it still hurts to see him not catch cars weaving through traffic, be seen, much less targeted by normal people with no enhanced abilities, or especially hit by foes or even his teammate. Even at 60 MPH which is about as fast as he was running today in the street if he could not keep up with the truck, that punch should have thrown back or hurt GL. A 185 lb. mass was traveling at speeds above 50 mph and he was able to absorb the impact with no return on the energy. Sorry If I will be the only nit picker but I do love this character and I am still waiting for him to be represented even nearly correct.

Yes, I have heard the thoughts of him having too much fun to catch the van but the ray that was being at him was destroying the city. He has never been that irresponsible and I don't think the league would tolerate him allowing the level of property damage that happened because he was hamming it up.

Again, all in all it was a Kick Butt ep, My second favorite to date. My Hat's off to Dwayne, I continue to become more and more of a fan. Starting w/ your Milestone Classics. I'd love to see you recreate more of them into Cartoons.

[The Green Hornet]

did you notice how he took time to make the tornado to save the people and still managed to catch up to and run along side the van?

that says to me its all about fun-- hes a hotshot who unfortunatly is irresponsible

im sure superman's given him a lecture or two :)

[Christo]

Loved it, loved it loved it.

So nice to have Mr. Dini back -- even if it's just story credit. Mr. McDuffie also aquitted himself well with snappy pacing (a must in a Flash episode) and sharp dialogue. Loved the silver age references.

I even found myself hoping that Grodd would take Flash over so that we could have a GL/Flash brawl -- and it happened! Nice to have that happen.

More, please.

[MattL.]

I wont review until both parts are in but a I will say that the Flash was extremely fun in this ep and I liked that Wallys origin is boiled down to the basic Flash origin. He's the only Flash this universe has ever had. Good.

Great script and storyboarding. Voice actors did a fine job. Of course the truth is they've been doing a good job since Secret Origins if you ask me so I'm not suprised.

Also, I've said it before and I will proudly say it again. No wacky fun shapes from GL's ring is perfectly cool with me. :D

[Mr. Obsession]

"The Brave and the Bold" proved one thing to me: we need a Flash: TAS -- NOW!


Dang, this episode was good. And it was all the little things: the witty dialog, the animation seemed more consistent than in previous episodes, the use of Flash's powers (he could have caught the truck but was having too much fun :) ), the improved music (especially during the chase scene and GL's theme from "Secret Origins" playing when he first appeared), the dream sequence, GL whacking Flash upside the head :D, the reference to Grundy (and possibly "Injustice for All", which should have aired already :mad: ), and the Cliffhanger!

4 and 1/2 stars, easy. If part two keeps it up "The Brave and the Bold" as a whole will just have to get the extra 1/2 a star.

Kudos to Dwayne McDuffie and Paul Dini! May they bring us more JL goodness in season 2! :)



Let's see, if I remember correctly "The Brave and the Bold" is just about the halfway point for this season, and keeping in mind that Timm said that "War World" (or was it "Paradise Lost") were the last of the "Holly Wood-esqe" episodes I think we may have reached the turning point for JL.

[CadaverousEyes]

Amazing. A JL episode that didn't make me cringe once. All episodes from this point on should be on par with this one. Too bad after part 2 we're going back to reruns for a while again.

37 sugars? Flash must have false teeth already.

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
did you notice how he took time to make the tornado to save the people and still managed to catch up to and run along side the van?

that says to me its all about fun-- hes a hotshot who unfortunatly is irresponsibleExactly. Not only did he move fast enough to create a small tornado to protect the couple from the falling rubble (which he helped cause :) ) and he’s running parallel on the sides of buildings, but after leaving the truck (which was going well over the speed limit) behind to save the couple he is easily able to catch up with it and tell the driver to pull over.

Stopping a speeding truck isn’t fun. Showing off while doing so is. :)


im sure superman's given him a lecture or two :)Between GL, Superman and Batman he probably hears about it to no end. :D

[JTurner954]

Nothing against Superman fans, but it was cool to see an episode without him. I like this Flash guy. Does anyone know if the voice actor was the same one who did the voice on S:TAS??

A complaint: It didn't seem right that it took so long for The Flash to catch up with that truck. It was as if he was staying far behind the truck on purpose. Eh, maybe that's just me.

Anything thing: The end sequence with the big explosion where the city was reminded me of what the Superman Cyborg did in "Reign of the Superman" to Coast City. Anyone else agree?

[FLIPMODE]

Yup, I'll agree.

Great Work McDuffie. I knew your work would stand out from the rest. I hope the majority of season 2 is based on exceptional work from season 1, which yours is amongst the few great episodes. Right now it's second best, but we'll see after part 2.

But now Im Curious, what could you do with a Batman Story??


Anyway, this episode was pure entertainment. And 100% great JL series material. THIS IS WHY I WATCH A JL ANIMATED SERIES, AND THIS IS THE TYPE OF MATERIAL I LOOK FORWARD TO SEING EVERY WEEEK. Not that War World crap, which took too many wrong turns. And did nothing to highlight the main character.

Things I like about B&tB"
-Flash's origin.
-GL smacks Flash on the head
-Seeing Grod in animated action, brought a tear to my eye.
-I though it WAS Hilarious that after MANY hours passing, that the grey Gorilla was STILL in the area where GL, had tracked his foot prints. It just seemed oversimplified, but funny as hell, when they realized he was still in there just standing upright, by his lonesome. Almost, silly, but I laughed hard.
-The fact that when Flash was being scoped by a then anonymous sniper, my relif that it was'nt Deadshot AGAIN!

-Flash Vs GL, I loved how Flash was shooting non-stop in circles. And GL just stood there motionless.


My only head scratcher was the Truck Chase scene. HOWEVER, I DID want this action scene to last, so it did not bother me. The situation however would make anyone pose the question "..Why can't he catch the truck" Especially after turning into a tornado. But trust me this was NOTHING compared to the annoying question of Last episode "WHY DOES'NT SUPES FIGHT BACK?? WHY DID'NT HE FIGHT MONGUL??"

So I was totally satisfied, infact Im going to wacth it again right now.

[warmachine04]

I can't believe that my dish was out of wacked this weekend. This was the episode that I was looking forward to see this season. After that scene in "Secret Origins", I knew that this episode will not only be funny but entertaining. I just have to get my dish fixed by this weekend. :( :( :( :( :(

[superfriend]

This was just awesome. Flash is easily likable, the most human of the team. I was not expecting him to get almost a solo story, but I loved it. :D

Those odd shots of him as he looked in old comics were a great thing to include.

The interesting thing is that IF they spent an entire episode on Batman or Superman I would be screaming "foul" becuase they each had their own series for years. But for one episode, Flash was really cool.

For Warworld, I complained that we only got 4 members. Here we only got two and it was a BETTER story. Thanks JL team.

:yakko: :wakko: :dot:

[Joe Wagner]

Sweet! Great job to every one that worked on this ep - esp the awesome writing skills of Dwayne. Personally I really enjoyed this ep and would have to agree with the majority - Flash was show boating, pure and simple. Seriously how can he expect to pick up the chicks if he doesn't show boat a little? If he decided to catch the truck right away it would have all been over in the blink of an eye and a lot of the 'ladies' would have missed it, never giving the Flash his due.

While I've enjoyed every ep of JL so far I do think that this one is on par with "The Enemy Below" as the most amazing arc this season and I can't wait to see part 2.

-Joe!

PS: And for all those people that aren't watching Static Shock on a weekly basis - check it out. If you thought Dwayne's stuff was great here your missing out on a lot of great work on his other show.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Clark J. Kent
Here's what I'd like to know...

Who ranked this episode ** and *½ and didn't have the nerve to explain why publically?

Okay, I was the ** guy. Of course, that's higher than I've ranked many of the previous episodes.

I was going to just post this on the "No Justice For Flash" thread, but since you want to know...

Flash is incompetent and has no reason to be on this show. Get him off, replace him with Cheeks, the Toy Wonder who couldn't do a worse job.

Rule 1 of heroic fiction: The hero must not be incompetent. The villains may be more competent, but the hero should not be completely useless. That rule is broken, imho, and badly too.

Not only has the Flash made no useful contribution in any episode prior to this one, but in an episode almost solely devoted to him, he has trouble with the episode's main villains... consisting of 2 guys with a gun. Oh, wait, they had a van, too. I guess that makes them supervillain caliber, huh?

Whether that incompetence is deliberate ("He was just playing with the crooks, while letting them blow up parts of the city trying to shoot him") or not ("A guy who can run fast enough to levitate rock can't catch up to a couple of guys who LIVE IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!" (Oops, sorry, channeling Chris Farley there.)) is irrelevant, imho.

The other gripe that perhaps colored my opinion more strongly than it should have was the "Flash-backs" (as someone called them), showing Flash's daydreams of being transformed into different things. One complaint I have about the JL episodes normally is that they don't have enough time for each episode, so what should be a single story gets s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d into two episodes, each about 15 or so minutes long (feels more like 10)with commercials to pad it out to 30 minutes. Adding pointless filler only serves to exacerbate the situation.

The filler had no purpose, and that made me madder than perhaps it should have. Yes, the scenes are classic wonderful scenes, but taken out of context, they are nothing.

These scenes should not have been here.

Combine those complaints with the fact that Flash (and GL) can't put two and two together (The two guys with a gun who gave Flash a run for his money claimed not to remember the crimes they were committing. Flash can't remember committing basically the same crime. Could there be a connection? Nah.), and I just feel like this was not a good example of heroic fiction.

[Apache Chief]

Very cool. During the Flash/GL fight, I was waiting for Flash to just run up and take GL's ring in the blink of an eye. Is that possible?

I have to disgaree with a common comment of this thread however. I like big epic stories that involve lots of characters. An episode like Brave and the Bold is a cool change of pace, but I don't want to see JL turn into a team-up show. I want to see the whole League in action again, something we haven't seen since Secret Origins.

[Trent Lane]

This was a really good episode, and I believe the first without Supes as well. I think the two heroes working together thing works real well, especially when it's Green Lantern and Flash. The interaction between them was as good- no, better- than it was between Hawkgirl and GL in "Warworld"... the slap on the head as they walk out of the police department was pretty funny, and Lantern having to knock out Flash to break the mind control was pretty fitting as well (you know John's wanted to do that for so long :D )..... can't wait to see the continuation next week...

[The Green Hornet]

this episode gives me real hope for a Supes/WW episode, a Flash/Hawkgirl episode and maybe a Flash/WW or Supes/Flash episode

[Justice League 2000]

hello my good friends this episode brave and the bold is a cool episode because

1. solvar drive in the car. in a cartoon I never seen a groilla drive before.

2. green lantern wear in that powerful headband and he look funny wearing that headband.

3. grodd voice was the best powers boothe did a good job voice in grodd.

and J"onn was not in brave and the bold part 1. and part 2 J'onn will be in part 2 and batman hawkgirl and wonder woman will be in it to. :)

[Domino]

Originally posted by SimonMoon5


Flash is incompetent and has no reason to be on this show. Get him off, replace him with Cheeks, the Toy Wonder who couldn't do a worse job.



Now there's a blast from the past! Not only would I like to see Cheeks, but Ambush Bug would make a great episode!

[DerekPowers]

i have a few questions about "the brave and the bold"

1. was the scene in the begining with the flash and the car chase in Central City, the flash's home base??

2. did the whole gurrilla grodd/gurrilla city thing come before or after planet of the apes?? if it was after, did the comic people ever mention if they ripped it off, or if it was before, did the planet of the apes people ever mention the flash comics??

3. i missed the part where solivar tells the history of gurilla city till the part where grodd sucker punches the flash in the lab right before gl and solivar show up. can someone fill me in??

well those are the qs. heres a few more things i felt about he ep, which was pretty sweet....

1. they should have expanded on the flash's origin scene. it was so quick that many could have over looked it or not really understood it was explaining his origin. since most dont know his origin, it would have been nice if they spend just alittle more time on that origin scene to make it more clear to people.

2. Regardless of which came first, gorrilla grodd/gorrilla city or planet of the apes, i feel maybe the writers should have found a way to make it more distinct from planet of the apes, cause alot of people watching im sure felt it it was ripping off planet of the apes cause it was so similar (who may not have known grodds history in flash comics).

[Clark J. Kent]

Justice League 2000,

Eloquently spoken as always, my good friend :D

[I am Batman]

Originally posted by SimonMoon5


Okay, I was the ** guy. Of course, that's higher than I've ranked many of the previous episodes.

I was going to just post this on the "No Justice For Flash" thread, but since you want to know...

Flash is incompetent and has no reason to be on this show. Get him off, replace him with Cheeks, the Toy Wonder who couldn't do a worse job.

Rule 1 of heroic fiction: The hero must not be incompetent. The villains may be more competent, but the hero should not be completely useless. That rule is broken, imho, and badly too.

Not only has the Flash made no useful contribution in any episode prior to this one, but in an episode almost solely devoted to him, he has trouble with the episode's main villains... consisting of 2 guys with a gun. Oh, wait, they had a van, too. I guess that makes them supervillain caliber, huh?

Whether that incompetence is deliberate ("He was just playing with the crooks, while letting them blow up parts of the city trying to shoot him") or not ("A guy who can run fast enough to levitate rock can't catch up to a couple of guys who LIVE IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!" (Oops, sorry, channeling Chris Farley there.)) is irrelevant, imho.

The other gripe that perhaps colored my opinion more strongly than it should have was the "Flash-backs" (as someone called them), showing Flash's daydreams of being transformed into different things. One complaint I have about the JL episodes normally is that they don't have enough time for each episode, so what should be a single story gets s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d into two episodes, each about 15 or so minutes long (feels more like 10)with commercials to pad it out to 30 minutes. Adding pointless filler only serves to exacerbate the situation.

The filler had no purpose, and that made me madder than perhaps it should have. Yes, the scenes are classic wonderful scenes, but taken out of context, they are nothing.

These scenes should not have been here.

Combine those complaints with the fact that Flash (and GL) can't put two and two together (The two guys with a gun who gave Flash a run for his money claimed not to remember the crimes they were committing. Flash can't remember committing basically the same crime. Could there be a connection? Nah.), and I just feel like this was not a good example of heroic fiction. I disagree. Flash saved four people in this episode in the very beginning. The girls in the diner, and tha couple. Also he stopped Solovar's car quickly with that rake.

[redDragon]

Wow! That ep was great! Really loved GL decking Flash, the banana thing was funny.

Anyone know what the heck that ball of energy thingy was? 'cause it didn't really seem to be destroying them really....even with the craterish thing at the end shot.

[Frank White]

I know somebody's probably mentioned this already but I don't feel like reading through all these replies. Anway I like that when Green Latern 1st appeared they used Kyles theme from S:TAS

[Palin Dromos]

I too really enjoyed this ep. It was so packed full of stuff!

Anyway to toss out another theory on why the Flash didn't catch up to the truck. Maybe he was tailing them to find out where they were going or trying to get out into a less crowded area before taking out the truck. Stopping a speeding truck isn't exactly a safe proceedure, he couldn't just pick it up like Supes, MM or WW so what ever he would have done would probably have been a little riskier.

It was all fun. And I thought the Flash's use of that rake was pretty clever.

Quick question. The hallucinations...I guess from what I've read here they're references to the comics, so could someone fill me in on the significance of that various imagry. (I did recognize the origin part)

Can't wait for part II.

Ciao

[JTurner954]

Wouldn't it make more sense to stop it before it tears up some other place (like it did to that building)?? I don't believe the "let's see where it goes" theory at all.

[metaphysician]

My guess is that the energy orb, at the end, either shifted the city to an alternate dimension, or maybe out of time.

[Livewire]

Originally posted by DerekPowers
i
they should have expanded on the flash's origin scene. it was so quick that many could have over looked it or not really understood it was explaining his origin. since most dont know his origin, it would have been nice if they spend just alittle more time on that origin scene to make it more clear to people.




Indeed they should have, DP. I don't read mainstream comics and I had no idea what was going on. It's a good thing other people do and posted the reason for the flashback or I would probably never had known.


I won't say that much until I see the second part. Besides, many of my questions( such as why Flash took so long to stop the van) have already been contemplated. What I will say was that the first 15 minutes weren't as enjoyable for me as the last 15 minutes. When the show returned after the commercial break, most of things I didn't understand had been cleared up. I found out who Grodd was, and I found out what the gray gorrila's(I don't know his name) purpose was in the affair. I thought he was bad at first, but boy was I wrong! I absolutely loved the scene when GL smacked Flash's head- and that slap sounded really hard, too!


All in all, a BIG step up from "War World." One last question: what did those archeologists have to do with anything? Maybe it'll be explained in the 2nd part.

[The Green Hornet]

i was a bit confused when i first saw the lighting but i QUICKLY realized what was happening

i wonder if this means the speed force is there and it "joined" with wally-- hence the fact we saw from the lightnings perspective

[Memphis Bleek]

Originally posted by Knight


Who else did he voice in this episode?

Lamarr voiced the guy who truck was run off the road into the diner and GL.

[MILatino]

Originally posted by Harvey Dent
Say, did anyone else's TV screens go blank for about 5 seconds during the first chase sequence?

Yes, it did it to me, too.


The Flash running animation still looks funny to me. It looks like he's running at normal speeds with a blurry effect.

You're right about that. So far, the best animated view of the Flash running has been the Filmation version. His legs move faster than you can see, but the blurring motion actually traces his path so you can sorta see what his legs are doing. Eventually, the blurry after-images of him "catch up" to him when he stops. Cool. :cool:

[Squall]

I loved "The Brave and The Bold"! :D But then again, I've loved every episode of Justice League so far. I have no complaints other than the usual nitpicks.

Which makes me think... every episode has nitpicks, right? Then why was "War World" torn apart by the most ardent Justice League critics in the Talkback threads, meanwhile "The Brave and The Bold" gets off so easy? If it's not difficult to believe Flash was holding back (on purpose!) when trying to catch the speeding truck, then why is it so hard to believe that Superman was holding back (on purpose!) when he was fighting Draaga and Mongul? I smell a double standard here... Is "The Brave and The Bold" recieving the 'good ol' boy' treatment because Paul Dini was involved?

Oh, now we have Atlantis AND Gorilla City as soverign city-states which the Earth's modern countries knew nothing about. Small world, eh? :)

[Borg4of3]

Don't forget Themescara! Its supposed to be completely seperate and hidden from 'man's world' as well. And then there's possibly Thanagar, which seems to be completely hidden and seperate from the entire universe since HG can't find her way back.

I think that, while there were harsh nitpicks in Brave and the Bold as well (as there can be for every episode of any series), the good parts completely outweighed the bad. Unlike Warworld where everyone was screaming out, 'bad dialogue, bad Supes characterization, bad villain, bad ending, etc' and the only good that most could come up with was the HG/GL interaction. This time, everyone is screaming out, 'great dialogue, great characterization, great villain, great cliffhanger, etc' and the only bad thing that most could come up with was that Flash couldn't (or just didn't) catch up to the van.

And I didn't catch Kyle's theme! I'll have to watch that again

[Spider]

I think Thanagar is either cloaked or perhaps a Dyson Sphere. ;)

"A Dyson Sphere is a hypothetical artificial space platform which very advanced alien civilizations might construct in order to harness all of the light of their parent star. The sphere surrounds the star completely, forming a shell around it of about the radius of the Earth's orbit. Aliens live on the inside surface of this sphere, which captures all the light from the star since it surrounds it completely. That light is used for the power needs of the civilization."

Of course, I don't know what happens to a Dyson Sphere in the time of war. I doubt very much that Hawkgirl could blow one to smithereens with her mace, even if she wanted to do so.... ;)

[The Green Hornet]

double standard ? nope

Supermans LIFE was in danger from Dragaa and Mongul

Flash was catching a VAN

of course he could hotdog

Superman, on the other hand, is NOT one for hotdogging adn should have used his powers properly

[Toddman]

Originally posted by DerekPowers
i have a few questions about "the brave and the bold"

1. was the scene in the begining with the flash and the car chase in Central City, the flash's home base??

2. did the whole gurrilla grodd/gurrilla city thing come before or after planet of the apes?? if it was after, did the comic people ever mention if they ripped it off, or if it was before, did the planet of the apes people ever mention the flash comics??



1. I figured that the story was taking place in Central City until I saw the police officers w/the SCU armor and the cars with the big "M" show up. The writers may have intended for the setting to be Central, but it was probably a lot cheaper for the animators to just re-use the designs for the Metropolis PD.

2) Planet of the Apes was first published in 1963. It is a French novel written by Pierre Boulle. The first appearance of Grodd and Gorilla City came in the Flash comics in 1959.

Toddman

[BeastBoyWonder]

A few things. Although I grew up on BTAS and see the creators of Justice League as talented individuals, I don't see one member different from the rest, I see it as a team effort. With all due respect to "Dini" and "McDuffie", who are undoubtedly talented individuals, i respect the team's effort in making the episode, not just a couple of the names involved thrown around.

So why didn't I nitpick this episode when I didn't enjoy others? Simple. I liked this episode, along with "The Enemy Below" and "In Blackest Night". To me, this plot seemed original, and it was entertaining, suspenseful (though not as much as BTAS), and action-packed from the get-go. This was the first plot that I percieved as not being cliched, so I was getting something completely fresh. With all of the humor and good elements of this episode, I could look over the nitpicks. I noticed that the Flash could have caught up to that van anytime, especially after saving those people he told it to pull over. I saw the grin on his face, and I realized I was grinning as well. It was actually character development. We see his attitude towards crimefighting in the animated series, and its different. Good. This is sharply contrasted with GL's style, and it makes for some great character interplay. I suspect GL would be much more harsh to our flash if "In Blackest Night" hadn't have happened. Little things like that add up, and make for an enjoyable episode. I didn't like the rest because of GLARING plot holes, weak character development, confusion, and cliched plots. I could excuse some of these faults, like the cliched In Blackest Night and the Enemy Below, but combined together these weaknesses bring down the show.

The only major weakness in plot that I picked out was the coincidence with the Flash and the van in the cafe at the beginning, and the fact that Gorilla City would be nuked if it weren't for that. But, that was excusable for the entertaining scene and dialoge at the beginning.

Anyway, I gotta question. I've heard of this "speed force". In the pseudoscience of the DC universe, what is it?

[The Green Hornet]

its a sentient energy force that i would assume is the origin of all movement

it "chooses" people and makes them superfast-- barry and wally etc


wally's costume actually eminates from the speed force does it not?

[DerekPowers]

Originally posted by Toddman


1. I figured that the story was taking place in Central City until I saw the police officers w/the SCU armor and the cars with the big "M" show up. The writers may have intended for the setting to be Central, but it was probably a lot cheaper for the animators to just re-use the designs for the Metropolis PD.

2) Planet of the Apes was first published in 1963. It is a French novel written by Pierre Boulle. The first appearance of Grodd and Gorilla City came in the Flash comics in 1959.

Toddman

thanks for the reply man.

anyway, did anyone else watch this ep w/ people who arent into comics? did any of them make a planet of the apes ripp off comment?? well im relieved that grodd and gorilla city came first, but i still say they should have changed it alittle simply to try and avoid such comparissons, since most people will undoubtably think its a pota rip off. any thoughts on that?

[Borg4of3]

I don't read the comics much, but I didn't notice any real similarities between PoTA and B&tB. There's no time travel, no maltreated humans, no GL in front of the Statue of Liberty cursing his green eyes out. I mean, sure, you've got some talking apes, but PoTA isn't a monopoly on talking monkeys. And I'm sure anyone who watched it would have thought more along the lines of 'Talking Animals', than 'talking monkeys'.

And if anyone did think it was a ripoff of PoTA, as Toddman pointed out, they're wrong.

[JTurner954]

Thinking about it more, I still say it took too long to catch that van. It was as if he was saying "Gee, I wonder if he's going to try to hit anyone with his reckless driving" or "I'll stop it only if someone is in danger".

BTW, can anyone explain the whole sequence where Flash gets fat and all that?? Why did that happen??

[Squall]

The Green Hornet said, "Supermans LIFE was in danger from Draaga and Mongul."

I don't think Superman's life was in danger. He showed in "War World" that he could have easily handled those two, especially Mongul (a Darkseid wanna-be who really wasn't that tough). Draaga was tough enough to make Superman bleed, but I don't think he was capable of killing him. After all, Superman WAS holding back (on purpose!) :D

[Clark J. Kent]

Originally posted by JTurner954
BTW, can anyone explain the whole sequence where Flash gets fat and all that?? Why did that happen?? It happened to show what Wally was dreaming while he was actually being controlled by Grodd.

[Domino]

Originally posted by JTurner954
BTW, can anyone explain the whole sequence where Flash gets fat and all that?? Why did that happen??

In the story, he was hallucinating while under the influence of the weapon that was used on him. Why was he fat and get a big head, etc.? Those were classic images from some Silver Age Flash comics! I don't have the specific issues, but I did recognize them. Too cool!

[Domino]

Originally posted by Borg4of3
If this was the JLABC thread, I'd say
D is for Don't have a cow, Man!

And no, he didn't say the exact same thing. You said he was dreaming. He said they were classic images of the Silver Age. The dreaming was brought up already. The 'classic images' thing (explaining that it was part of the dream) was not.

Did I miss something?

[Naraht]

Originally posted by Domino


Did I miss something?

I'm guessing Clark posted something, which he later deleted

[Domino]

Okay, that makes sense. Well, from the context of Borg4of3's message, I would guess that Clark J. Kent was upset that I posted the same thing he did. In my defense, I would suggest that he look at the times the messages were posted. I was probably still writing my response when he posted his. It took me some time to look at my back issues of The Flash to see if I had the ones whose covers were used in the episode, but unfortunately I didn't have them. I certainly wasn't reacting to or even aware of what he had said before me. No offense was intended.

[JLU Dude]

Just having saw it, I thought it was cool. Can't wait to see Part 2.

[Joker85]

Originally posted by Justice League Dude
Just having saw it, I thought it was cool. Can't wait to see Part 2.
I just saw it myself, and it was definitely the best episode since The Enemy Below. The animation was great as well. The Flash/GL team up was hysterical!! :D I can't wait for part 2 ( and I only have to wait 1 more day! :p )

[Blight]

I just saw this eppy today as well, and I thought it was great! Definitely a gigantic improvement over the horrid "Warworld" arc. Flash and GL should really team up together more often, as they provide some great interaction and comedy relief. The only thing I didn't like is that this is the second arc in a row that Batman was left out of! :( Ah well, I'm still looking forward to part 2.

See ya!
Blight

[The Green Hornet]

the batman is in part two

i wonder what would happen if Grodd mind controled him?

[Blight]

Originally posted by The Green Hornet
the batman is in part two

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! It's been so long since I've seen Bats in JL, it feels like an eternity! Thanks for the info!

See ya!
Blight

[Livewire]

Originally posted by Squall
I loved "The Brave and The Bold"! :D But then again, I've loved every episode of Justice League so far. I have no complaints other than the usual nitpicks.

Which makes me think... every episode has nitpicks, right? Then why was "War World" torn apart by the most ardent Justice League critics in the Talkback threads, meanwhile "The Brave and The Bold" gets off so easy? If it's not difficult to believe Flash was holding back (on purpose!) when trying to catch the speeding truck, then why is it so hard to believe that Superman was holding back (on purpose!) when he was fighting Draaga and Mongul? I smell a double standard here... Is "The Brave and The Bold" recieving the 'good ol' boy' treatment because Paul Dini was involved?


No, I don't think there's any double standard. "War World" just had too many discrepancies, imo. And I hope people aren't saying this ep was good just because P.D. was involved. I didn't even know he was until it was mentioned on this thread.


I'm a little surprised myself that this episode is garnering such high praise. I watched it again today. Yes, it was definately better than "War World" -so far- but that wasn't a hard task to accomplish. :rolleyes:


I didn't think there was anything too spectacular about the writing, but then again, that might be because I don't like D.M's other show, Static Shock. But who knows? I have to wait until pt.2 to state my entire opinion on B&B.

[JTurner954]

Ok, I just finished seeing the episode for the second time and I liked it more (YAYY Widescreen). I figured Flash didn't catch the van faster because he didn't eat enough and later when the guy is shooting at him.

[Karnak2k]

In my opinion The Brave and the Bold and The Enemy Below have been the best JL episodes so far. First place still goes to TEB because it had a nice mix of action and plot and man that ending was great and almost unexpected. Aquaman just letting his brother "fall to his death" *wink*wink* realisticly portrayed the type of person Authur is and what a punk Orm was. I mean how many cartoons have we seen were the villian tries to kill the hero, his family, and everyone he loves and yet the hero is still willing to save him, only for the villian to take one last attempt and do himself in.

Anyway, back on topic. The only real nitpick I had with the B&B episode was how they animated The Flash's speed. It didn't really look like he was moving fast. I don't think you should ever be able to see Flash's individual movements unless they are afterblurs. Once again, something STAS got right but they chose to ignore due to budget constraints or whatever.

I had no "real" problem with him taking a while to catch the van, though the villians shooting at him shouldn't have been a problem. Wally has always been a showboater. And to those wondering what he would have done after catching the van, in the comics he can not only move fast, he can also impart and extract movement/momentum/speed from an object, supposedly from his connection with the Speed Force. This means not only can he outrun a bullet, he can remove its kinetic energy (which is based on speed) and impact. So he could have just brought the van to a standstill OR something which would have been even more amusing: dismantled the van piece by piece at superspeed. Heh now that would have been a sight! :D

Owell, here's hoping I can find someone to tape part 2 for me since we don't get CN oncampus. By the way, is there ANYONE else out there who liked the 1990 Flash TV series?! I thought the costume and the reasoning behind it was great! I also liked how they did his speed effects even though he was drastically slower compared to the comics. Yes, it got real hokey at the end and they didn't need to shoehorn that Moonlighting "will they, won't they" subplot with him and that Starlabs scientist, but I can still watch it today.

[James Harvey]

This is the official talkback thread for tonight's new episode "Brave & The Bold Part 2". The new episode airs tonight at 7pm (ET). Enjoy, folks!


http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/justiceleague/episodes/BraveAndTheBold/Pt2/03.jpg

Episode #15 - The Brave And The Bold Part 2
Original Airdate - March 17th, 2002

Flash must stop Gorilla Grodd while Green Lantern attempts to disarm warheads.

Comments?

[warmachine04]

Finally, I was able to see this episode last night. The writers of this episode thought that "Less is more" and "Keeping it simple" would make this episode work and guess what: the formula works well. "The Brave and the Bold" is an improvement over previous episodes. I enjoy the comedy, the dialogue and score of this episode. Though not as good as "The Enemy Below", it is a close second. I liked the way that GL and Flash argue and get along. The only flaw was the opening scene of Flash chasing the truck. Yes, I agree with most of the people in this forum that Flash was a bit power down but the part where he rescues the couple from falling rubble, was a real hoot. Overall, "The Brave and the Bold" was very good and await for the second part. :)

[The Green Hornet]

great ep

batman was used well, Flash and GL had some great scenes

loved how flash owned grodd in EVERY way

that line about internet romance was great

as a note on the percieved batman romance--

i dont think its there

batman hates death and he was just embarased that he broke his own usual style of aloofness and uncaring appearance and was embarased that diana saw he did care what happened to others



5 stars just like part 1

[TheHuntressDiana]

Dirty hands & a smooch! :D


Awww yeah baby! :D

[Naraht]

GAH! I missed most of the ep, cause I forgot when it aired..d'oh!!!!

[JTurner954]

I wasn't able to watch the whole thing, but from what I saw it looked good. Flash had some great lines ("Yeah, well...you're naked".) Once again, that mace is not a normal object since it is now shown that it can generate electricity.

I'll be able to see the whole thing on the Saturday replay.

[Joker85]

this was even better than part 1!!! Batman was finally back(everyone was in this one except Superman! ) Hawkgirl was very good in this eppy, and so was GL. Grodd is a very cool villain, I hope he comes back next season. I kept laughing during this epp cause it just seemed like JL meets Planet of the Apes. I was LMAO when WW kissed Batman, the face he made was priceless. Does anyone else since Chemistry there??? ;) The last scene was kinda creepy, but funny. When is the next new episode?
Overall this was the best arc since The Enemy Below. THis is what JL should be like!

[Bird Boy]

What's the deal here? We've had 2 great JL eps...2 weeks in a row!

Wow..this ep was great. Definitely my favorite. When Wonder Woman stopped that missile, it was like watching Superman..it was weird, but insanely cool at the same time.

The way Flash handled the Grodd situation was great as well ("yeah..well..you're..naked!.......what?").

Overall, I give this one 5 stars...just because of how cool it was.. :)

-BB

[Knight]

Good ep.Nice action. Grodds mind being wipped didnt last long (maybe having that banana in his hand made him mad enough to pop back into reality). And my boy Batman trying to maintain his grimace after that Wonder Woman kiss was funny.lol.

[JohnStewart-GL]

I gave 5 stars. i luved it. it was funny. and action crammed.
that kiss was funny. Flash beating grodd showed he was more than just a clown.

[knightraven2]

Well, now we know why Flash is Grodd's nemesis. And I think we can verify those romance rumors. Geez, how are Catwoman and Talia supposed to compete with an Amazon Princess?
Hmm, Bruce sure digs the dark haired gals, don't he?
<yes, I know that Selina was a blonde in BTAS but they did change that for the later series..>
I thouroughly enjoyed this episode. Alot of fun.
Now, here's a question: Is the Flash super-strong? He carried Solivar. That's at least four hundred pounds. And he didn't just pick it up and carry it, he RAN with it.
Seems to me that requires super strength.
I'm also beginning to think they should have just went with the Giffen-Demattis Justice League, or at least the post-crisis Justice League of America.
Anywho, the show seems to work better without superman.

[JLU Dude]

I like it. I can't beileve that woman loved Grodd. I wonder if Grodd will join forces with Parasite. (Both having been temporarily mindless).

[Apache Chief]

This was great! "Don't heckle the super-villian!"

I though Diana's peck on the cheek to Batman was very cute, but I don't think there's any romance there. Just my opinion.

Speaking of Batman, don't you think one of the three flying Leaguers could have given him a lift out fo the prison? He's swinging around like Spider-Man trying to keep up, and they more or less ditch him! They wouldn't even be free if it wasn't for him!

Oh well. How many more days until the next new one?

[Naraht]

Don't suppose someone wants to let me in on what happened, I turned on, and 4 leaguers are being held by gorillas (in Gorrilla city) and GL & Flash are showing up @ Grodds Padd. =\

[TheHuntressDiana]

I'm sure Flash carring Solavar was some kind of physics bit...hence the "how much do you weigh?" question...

[Frank White]

5 stars. Great action. Great use of Batman, Great plot, Great dialouge, Great villian.

[The Green Hornet]

I'm sure Flash carring Solavar was some kind of physics bit...hence the "how much do you weigh?" question...

which is one reason im convinced hes got barry's old job as a police scientist

[Knight]

Originally posted by Apache Chief


Speaking of Batman, don't you think one of the three flying Leaguers could have given him a lift out fo the prison? He's swinging around like Spider-Man trying to keep up, and they more or less ditch him! They wouldn't even be free if it wasn't for him!

Oh well. How many more days until the next new one?

I was thinking the same thing. They have him swinging from building to building then he has to make a run for the city's limits. I was like "why doesnt one of them pick him up and fly him". They didnt even look back to make sure he was keeping up.lol.

[Batman 80]

Maybe Batman didn't want them to fly him, you know how stubborn he can be sometimes.

[Blade1225]

i loved all of that, but i also loved the battle scene when the heros were being held prisoner, and then batman like starts the whole chain of beating up gorillas

[TheHuntressDiana]

You know...I did think 'bout that "picking up Bats" for a minute, then I forgot it. He'd hate to do it, but he'd give some kind of signal if he needed help...

[Borg4of3]

Well, he is Batman for crying out loud. If the JL has learned anything by now, its that he can take care of himself. :D

I missed the first half of the ep, but from what I saw this episode kept the quality going from the first half, even with more characters. Loved the missile climax and the Grodd/Flash battle. Proves that a great duel doesn't have to be Superman/Darkseid all over again.

As for the romance bit, every princess needs her knight :p

[knightraven2]

I missed the first part of Brave and Bold part one. It may seem a silly question, but I'm curious: What color is Wally's hair?

[TheHuntressDiana]

I think it was reddish...

[Borg4of3]

Goodness, seems like everyone missed the first half of the episode!

Could anyone do a quick summary of what happened, explaining what exactly happened to Central City up to the point where the populace are attacking GL, Solovar, and The Flash?

[JTurner954]

:yawn: Why does every single kiss and/or hug mean there's a relationship?? One kiss from Wonder Woman means they are in love?? C'mon. That's ridiculous.

So now that people assume the same thing with Hawkgirl and Lantern, does it mean that the people on this board want some kind of romance story on Justice League?? Enough already please.

[Blade1225]

well most of the JL fans are guys, and then they just stay home all day in front of their computer on this site, so they don't get out much, so yeah, they'd really love to see a love story happen on JL

[The Green Hornet]

did u read my post on the kiss JT?

[TheHuntressDiana]

They're not in love. No way.

I just find it incredibly satisfying that one person, who he's know less than a year/about a year (in that continuity), can fluster (sorry, I don't have a better word right now) him to the point where he'll dig in rubble to make sure he/she is okay.


THAT is a change (to me) in the Batman character...and I find it, as Tuvok would say, "Fascinating..." ;)

[warmachine04]

Amazing. "The Brave and the Bold" pt. 2 is a great follow-up from part 1. The action, comedy and dialogue were great. "Don't heckle the super-villian!":D. Seeing Flash use his brain to defeat Grodd was my favorite highlight in this episode. Overall, "The Brave and the Bold" ranks one of the best Justice League episodes of the season so far.

The only significant flaw that I noticed, is that the nuke would exploded in contact with that building unless she removed the detonator prior that. Everything else OK. :)

[Frank White]

Originally posted by Borg4of3
Goodness, seems like everyone missed the first half of the episode!

Could anyone do a quick summary of what happened, explaining what exactly happened to Central City up to the point where the populace are attacking GL, Solovar, and The Flash?

Grodd used the same device on Central City that is being used on Gorilla City, so to Diana, Hawkgirl, and J'ohnn it looked like the City had disappeared but it really didn't. And then Flash, GL, and Solovar found Grodd and your up to time.

[Domino]

Everyone will start throwing rocks at me when they read this.

I gave it four and a half. I had to leave off the last half star because the Flash got hit by a thrown rock. Would the scene have had any less impact if he had caught it, but still acted shocked?

I know that's very nitpicky, but overall I thought it was the best two parter we've seen--by far! Good job all around! And I really liked the line about internet romances. I met my wife on the internet!

[Batman 80]

I haven't seen the episode yet(I'm on the west coast), but I think Batman was just showing concern for a fellow teamate. Like he used to show towards Robin in BTAS. Remember, Batman does have a heart despite the way he acts at times.

[scarface_74]

It was a great episode with great lines but did anyone else notice how short it was? The episode ended at 7:24 credits and all.

[TheHuntressDiana]

I gave it 4 1/2 stars too...so no need to worry Domino. :)

I think the bith with Flash acting shocked that the rock hit him was a bit of his cockyness coming through. "Hey girls remember me? I saved your lives this morning!" and then they still threw the rock. Still classic cocky Flash there. ;)

[Domino]

Originally posted by warmachine04

The only significant flaw that I noticed, is that the nuke would exploded in contact with that building unless she removed the detonator prior that. Everything else OK. :)

Nuclear weapons are usually set to go off above their targets. Oh, and since these were intercontinental ballistic missiles, they would have gone nearly into space before returning to Earth. But then again, they were "animated universe" ICBMs. This is the same world with privately owned habitable space stations! ;)

[scarface_74]

Originally posted by TheHuntressDiana
They're not in love. No way.

I just find it incredibly satisfying that one person, who he's know less than a year/about a year (in that continuity), can fluster (sorry, I don't have a better word right now) him to the point where he'll dig in rubble to make sure he/she is okay.


THAT is a change (to me) in the Batman character...and I find it, as Tuvok would say, "Fascinating..." ;)

Why? In all of the animated shows Batman has always shown concern for the lives of his partners -- Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Barbara Gordon, Terry, and even Superman.

[TheHuntressDiana]

Originally posted by scarface_74
Why? In all of the animated shows Batman has always shown concern for the lives of his partners -- Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Barbara Gordon, Terry, and even Superman.

I said "why" already. It's the fact that he's known her less than Clark, Jim, Dick, Tim, Barbara, etc.

[warmachine04]

Originally posted by Batman 80
I haven't seen the episode yet(I'm on the west coast), but I think Batman was just showing concern for a fellow teamate. Like he used to show towards Robin in BTAS. Remember, Batman does have a heart despite the way he acts at times.

I agree. To his companions, Batman is a gruff and serious person. Seeing him concern over Wonderwoman's situation was a very good touch. The Kiss was a another good highlight for this episode. :)

[Ed Liu]

Howdy all,

I have to admit a small amount of disappointment in pt. 2 of The Brave and the Bold, especially after the truly excellent first part. There were more than a few moments during the episode where I was rolling my eyes or shaking my fists in frustration (GL can block bazooka blasts, but gets taken out by a little fragment of missile?). I was all set to launch into one of my patented rants about details that were missed and arbitrary ignoring of powers at key moments.

The big problem is...I can't. This story arc is just so full of good-natured, old-fashioned, comic-book fun that any and all complaints I may have about it just seem even more petty and small-minded than usual.

On top of which, there was plenty to like in the episode. The Flash's one-liners were great, and totally fitting his character (except when he decided to heckle Grodd -- what the heck was up with that?). Everybody had a part to play, neatly avoiding the "fifth wheel" syndrome that has plagued every JL episode other than this one. I loved the J'onn trick with the missile. For once, I really liked Wonder Woman's voice acting, and her last-minute save of the missile was a great character bit for her. I also really, REALLY dug the exchange between her and Batman at the end (though, honestly, I was expecting J'onn to touch Batman's shoulder to get him to stop, and then pick up the missile casing with one hand and throw it aside). I don't expect a Batman-Wonder Woman romance, though I think it could be interesting as a concept.

Finally, the Flash's handling of Grodd was clever and completely fitting for his character. And, considering the amazing lack of foresight he showed throughout the episode (heckling the supervillian and charging off to fight Grodd without his little headband), I was genuinely surprised to find he had enough forethought to sabotage Grodd's helmet, and then have some fun at Grodd's expense. Compare this to how useful he was against Hades (run around him really fast and PUNCH him after Superman got swatted away like a fly -- yeah, that's a smart thing to do).

So, even though there was some stuff that irked me (in addition to the above, why did GL disassemble the missiles with his ring instead of just grabbing them and chucking them into space?), I still really liked it on the whole. Congrats to Dwayne McDuffie -- the folks at CN should get him to write more of these things!

-- Ed/Ace

[Naraht]

Originally posted by Ace the Bathound
Howdy all,

So, even though there was some stuff that irked me (in addition to the above, why did GL disassemble the missiles with his ring instead of just grabbing them and chucking them into space?), I still really liked it on the whole. Congrats to Dwayne McDuffie -- the folks at CN should get him to write more of these things!

-- Ed/Ace

Heh, GL was still shaking off some lingering Plot Gas from War World, it's been affecting his judgement...

[Dark Knight]

I absolutely loved this. Better perhaps than "The Enemy Below" ... But i havent made up my mind yet.

Flash was great in this episode, I love him even more now and he was already second only to batman. The Quality didnt suffer at all by introducing more characters, in fact I found it to be even more enjoyable. The escape scene was great, it spotlighted the JL being linked together on those levels a super team should be.

And now for my take on the kiss. Noone can say if theres anything there yet, but noone can say there isnt either. We'll have to see if other writers will keep going with a romance. Personally I already sense something with Superman and WW and adding Batman to the equation would be much more fun.

[TheHuntressDiana]

Don't be too fast on the Supes-WW-Bats triangle thing now.


Or have all of you forgotten the mention of a "Steve Trevor" that's supposed to be introduced at some point...? ;)

[The Green Hornet]

and for that matter two women named Lana Lang and Lois Lane?

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by Dark Knight
I absolutely loved this. Better perhaps than "The Enemy Below" ... But i havent made up my mind yet.

Flash was great in this episode, I love him even more now and he was already second only to batman. The Quality didnt suffer at all by introducing more characters, in fact I found it to be even more enjoyable. The escape scene was great, it spotlighted the JL being linked together on those levels a super team should be.

And now for my take on the kiss. Noone can say if theres anything there yet, but noone can say there isnt either. We'll have to see if other writers will keep going with a romance. Personally I already sense something with Superman and WW and adding Batman to the equation would be much more fun.
Is Bats trying to still all of Supes Women. wats next Lana?

[The Mad Hatter]

Okay, I'm sensing a bit of a pattern here to Justice League. The action is first-rate and well-paced, but the plot is given less emphasis. Take today's episode. The defusing of the missles kept me on the edge of my seat, and Flash's powers were used well. Even the dialogue seemed snappier than usual. But, my one big question wasn't answered:

Why the heck was Grodd trying to destroy Gorilla City!?

Really, he just seemed like some run-of-the-mill maniacal madman. What the heck was his motivation? Really, I'm not expecting some sort of overblown postmodern psychobabble, such as Grodd being teased by the other gorillas when he was just a wee ape lad, and because they knocked over his sandcastle, he vowed to knock over Gorilla City. Or something like that.

Ah well. Nice action, and good "wacky Flash" quote. I'm just getting a bit frustrated at the lack of an occasional deep plot.

[The Green Hornet]

i blame banana's for grodds insanity ;)

[Naraht]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
Okay, I'm sensing a bit of a pattern here to Justice League. The action is first-rate and well-paced, but the plot is given less emphasis. Take today's episode. The defusing of the missles kept me on the edge of my seat, and Flash's powers were used well. Even the dialogue seemed snappier than usual. But, my one big question wasn't answered:

Why the heck was Grodd trying to destroy Gorilla City!?

Really, he just seemed like some run-of-the-mill maniacal madman. What the heck was his motivation? Really, I'm not expecting some sort of overblown postmodern psychobabble, such as Grodd being teased by the other gorillas when he was just a wee ape lad, and because they knocked over his sandcastle, he vowed to knock over Gorilla City. Or something like that.

Ah well. Nice action, and good "wacky Flash" quote. I'm just getting a bit frustrated at the lack of an occasional deep plot.

In the 1st part, it's mentioned how @ one point he had control of the city, but was overthrown....I assume he's out for revenge

[BeastBoyWonder]

Once again, after watching this and BTAS, I found them both wildly entertaining. Oh yeah, my little brother does too.

[Memphis Bleek]

I love the part when Diana kissed Bats after he try to save her and Bats started blushing like a school girl. Bats got a crush. I don't think Supes will be too thrill about this when he hears about it. I like the part when Flash played Grodd head like a bango. Flash was hilarious as always. This storyarc was well animated and written. I the foreshadowing at the end with Grodd showing that he not brain dead. The team seems to be coming together quite well.

[The Guard]

GL's little trench. It was supposed to stop people? Why couldn't he fly them out of there?

Why did he "disarm" the warheads (Which clearly weren't nukes) when he could just suck them up in green bubbles and chuck 'em?

How many times have we seen Hawkgirl say "take your best shot"?

Oh, yeah.

Great episode.

[TheHuntressDiana]

I don't know how many times she's said it, but she's meant it every single time. And did you notice...she still kicked butt with her arms bound behind her back... :)

[JTurner954]

Hornet, my comment was towards those who said that there's going to be a romance between the two.

I'm just tired of speculation that the smallest gesture stirs up a rumor of a romantic story.

[Livewire]

I gave it 4and 1/2 stars. Yes, I liked this episode that much.

Flash was great. I loved his "naked" line to Grodd. I didn't find myself cringing at any lines. The voice acting was good. For once, I can't complain about that. The animation was pretty good, too. And Batman's interaction with WW was great. Who can forget that kiss? ;) He's been in more eps than I thought he would be, but I enjoy his presence in episodes better than Superman's. Even though I'm a Supes fan, it was nice to take a break from the Man of Steel. Overall, I liked the 2nd part a whole lot better than pt.1.


The only thing I wish they had done was expound on Gorilla City a little more. How did it come to be hidden all these years? Not being a comic reader, it would have been nice to learn more about it.


This is possibly my favorite episode so far.

[The Green Hornet]

i agree

a break from the last son of krypton was kinda nice given the way theyve been treating his character ;)


flash and gl could easily support their own show-- they rock

[Caped Crusader]

Wow!! This is definitely one of the best JL episodes I've seen! I liked this a lot better than part one. The voice acting very good. WW has improved immensely since earlier eps, and MM sounded a lot better than he did in "War World". I also think Flash was used very well in this episode (I didn't think he had enough brains to figure out how to defeat Grodd), and his "Well, you're...naked!" line was hilarious! :D Batman's interaction with WW was excellent (I know I couldn't forget that kiss, Livewire. ;) )

Well, to sum this episode up: good story, good voice acting, good villian (for a gorilla :D ), and good animation. I can't wait to see what's in store for us in the next new ep. :)

[Batman 80]

Excellent episode! My favorite one so far. I love the Diana and Batman scene as well as the end with Grodd frowning. I can't wait until he returns.

[Spider]

Originally posted by TheHuntressDiana
Dirty hands & a smooch! :D


Awww yeah baby! :D

TheHuntressDiana,

Loved it loved it loved it. Did I say I loved it? That kiss was both subtle and poignant. And Batman was wonderful in this episode. (Perhaps he's always wonderful and I've just missed it! :))

I also loved how Hawkgirl kicked some serious gorilla tail in the chamber--flying kicks, smacks and punches--and did so before her cuffs were off--awesome. And when she walked on one of the villains on her way out, I thought of your (former) avatar.... ;)

[TheHuntressDiana]

Originally posted by Spider
Loved it loved it loved it. Did I say I loved it? That kiss was both subtle and poignant. And Batman was wonderful in this episode. (Perhaps he's always wonderful and I've just missed it! :))

I also loved how Hawkgirl kicked some serious gorilla tail in the chamber--flying kicks, smacks and punches--and did so before her cuffs were off--awesome. And when she walked on one of the villains on her way out, I thought of your avatar....


I loved the semi-moment between Diana/Bats...but I'm still under the "there won't be any love triangle on the show" belief. :)

Spider...you're a fan after my own heart. :cool: And my previous avatar...will be back...it's just taking a little break 'til the end of the month. :)

[Ruffian]

I liked this eps a lot, a good follow up to the first part. The use of the characters made more sense too. I like how there was really only two league members that were the main focus in this part. Good lines, from GL and Flash. The show of trust is great in the league (WW's trust in Batman's engineering), and is what's needed to make a team. Even though Batman's not a people person, he works pretty well in this group. Maybe also the fact Superman isn't around this time. :p

I thought the scene where Batman ran to dig Diana out was cool. And when he hid his glove stained hands behind his cape. It shows he's a sentimentalist and actually does care about his fellow league members. This kiss WW gives him was adorable and Batman's expression too. I saw it more of a "thanks for caring" type smooch. Hey, they thought she was dead for a moment, so I'm sure the gesture (Batman trying to dig her out) meant a lot, like she can count on them. :)

[Spider]

TheHuntressDiana,

"I loved the semi-moment between Diana/Bats...but I'm still under the "there won't be any love triangle on the show" belief."

I agree with this. I haven't seen anything to indicate otherwise. I think Twilight hit the nail on the head with the 'thanks for caring' remark. It was for me a defining moment, though.

I also watched "Secret Origins" *three* times this weekend. And I taped "The Brave and the Bold." Now all I need is "Paradise Lost." :)

I liked the scene where Green Lantern and Hawkgirl both failed in their attempt to destroy the shield. It was kind of neat how Hawkgirl was thrown and landed perpendicularly on Wonder Woman. And Wonder Woman's 'perhaps we should try another approach' was priceless.

What an excellent episode. More good stuff with Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl--I loved it when Wonder Woman helped her up on the cliff, and I got sentimental when she (Hawkgirl) actually smiled (okay, a half-smile) when finding out that Diana was alive and well. Way to go Batman! :) I'm looking forward to "Fury" with a Thanagarian vengeance, now. Did I read correctly that "Paradise Lost" will precede it?

[Batman 80]

I think Grodd has been the best villain shown so far. He was way better than Faust and Mongul. And Hawkgirl is the ultimate butt kicker.

[The Green Hornet]

i agree

Godd ruled

GREAT Voice Actor

and the line

Guard: Who goes there?

Grodd: Your Lord and Master

hahahahahahha

im still laughing

[RorShaq]

Good episode. Only major complaint-why the heck didn't WW or MM fly Batman out? Also, he shouldn't swing from those ropes like he's Spider-Man. Oh well, I guess Batman just can't be seen getting help from anyone, ever.

As to the WW-Batman thing...No chance in hell. She's ultimately meant to end up with Superman, after all

[Karkull]

Yep, that episode was pretty sweet...even though this is the third episode this season with a hidden secret society.

:p

The Flash actually had a good showing against Grodd (which he had to, considering that he's his arch-villain). The other League members did well too, but does this set a precedent that they don't need Superman?

I understood Grodd's mission to destroy Gorilla City, but why the human mistress? She seemed to love him...did he love her? That would certainly up the deviant level with this supervillain. He was willing to kill his own kind and fraternize with smelly, ugly humans?

Good episode all around. We need more like this.

[The Green Hornet]

karkull--

he refered to the scientists as "my dear" more than once

i think he loved her

which DOES make him that much more interesting

[TheHuntressDiana]

The only time Diana would/should end up with Clark ==> Kingdom Come.


As for the Batman and no one flying him out bit...I'd say is a bit of everything everyone has already said 'bout it....and that he's just too stubborn.

[The Green Hornet]

i think the batman would let someone fly him if they had need for haste or a long distance trip over water etc where the batplane/boat was not there


BTW

whos the person who gave this ep TWO stars and hasnt said anything about why??

[SirLemming]

This was definitely the best episode. Hopefully they'll keep building on this kind of stuff and eventually reach Batman-level greatness!
And I know this has been said before, but "You're naked!" was definitely the best line in the series so far. Flash did some other pretty cool/funny stuff in this episode.
The end was very cool, and one of the more memorable things in the series. Seeing Grodd with his mind totally wiped was interesting.

hmm... I'm running out of things to say

[Mr. Obsession]

I absolutely loved it!

The lines were memorable:

Flash: "Who are you calling slow?!"
GL: "Flash, don't heckle the super villain."

GL: "You watch to many movies"
* crowd chanting *
Flash: "Well maybe you don't watch enough."

Flash: "How much do you weigh?"
Solavar: "About 400 of your pounds. Wh...."
Flash: * panting a moment later * "400 pounds? Are you sure you did the math right?"

Flash: "Well... you're naked. What?"

I also liked Grodd's line about the world missing Flashes intellect shortly before it's shown that Flash actually used some sort of electrical expertise to rewire Grodd’s helmet. Nice touch.

The character development, especially for Flash was great. In part one we saw a part of his origin (which leads us to believe that he's a mixture of both Barry and Wally), we know that he has some extensive electrical knowledge (his cross-wiring of Grodd's helmet), and he does show some foresight and planning on the fly (again, Grodd’s helmet) even if he lacks common sense at times (most of the rest of the episode).

I also liked the fact that John knew exactly where the critical components of the missiles where, and how to disarm them. Perhaps one of the reasons he acts so militarily all the time isn't because he's been in the GL corps for so long, but instead because he shares a bit of Hal's background.

The teamwork displayed by Batman, J'onn, WW, and HG was nicely done. As was WW save at the end.

And Batman openly showing concern enough to be the only one to go down into the crater and start digging WW out with his hands while the crowd gathered was a very nice touch. It's good to see that his crusade hasn't turned the dark knight into the cold, apathetic, lonely individual that he is when BB starts.

The animation was excellent for both parts.

Overall a great job to all involved. 5 stars.


Here's looking forward to Grodd's next appearance, either as a member of the Injustice Gang, or just looking to give Flash some playback. :) Now all we need to do is find out what Flash did to Grundy in "Inustice for All". :D

[Spider]

I thought the Flash was superb in this episode. I loved many of his lines--esp. the "Now there's something you don't see everyday" as well as a few others. JJ, Batman, and GL are very serious (so are Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl, for that matter) so I think I'm beginning to understand why the Flash's comic relief is needed at times. I laughed quite a lot during this episode, and I have the Flash to thank for that!

Yes, Mr. Obsession--that was the line I couldn't recall, about doing the math right--hysterical! :)

Side note--

In "Secret Origins," when upon meeting Diana, the Flash says "Where have you been all my life" and she responds "Themyscira," I nearly fell over! She was blatantly honest, but it was so dead-pan that I thought the Flash was going to ask her to be a part of his stand-up act. ;)

[Squall]

What's wrong with speculation about Batman and Wonder Woman having a possible romance going? That's half the fun! :D

"It's just a kiss." I don't think so. If we could watch our favorite superheroes 24/7, then I'd say that, but we only get 30 minutes at a time, 26 times a year. And the writers know that, with that limited time frame, everything our characters do in interactions with each other has to mean something, and not waste time; especially something like that... :p

I loved "The Brave and The Bold," Part II (but then again, I've loved EVERY Justice League episode so far, and the show just keeps getting better!).

The usual nitpicks apply, of course. Why couldn't Green Lantern just enclose all four nuclear missiles and throw them into space? I think it's because he didn't want to set off a nuclear device anywhere near Earth. Notice all four missiles had their nuclear detonators torn out?

Flash was hit by the rock thrown by the woman because he let his guard down. He was thinking "Man they're hot!" and just not paying attention :p

I think Green Lantern created the "moat" around Flash and Solivar because (1) he could have floated them somewhere else, but where else would have been safe? All of Central City was enclosed, and under Grodd's control. At least there they were out in the open... and (2) he was leaving them behind (fairly quickly, before the temporary hole in the city's sheild shut) to go chase the missiles. Next? :D

[Frank White]

Originally posted by JohnStewart-GL

Is Bats trying to still all of Supes Women. wats next Lana?

LOL!


Anyway I'm mad that the show goes from a B- to an A+ in the 1st ep. Supes wasnt in.

[The Green Hornet]

me 2 frank

me 2

[Frank White]

Eh right, "Who needs a Superman when you have a Justice League?"

[Trent Lane]

Wow, what an awesome conclusion to "The Brave and the Bold". This was one of the more action-packed half-hours this show has had so far, and one of the best episodes showcasing true teamwork between the members. I think it was good Superman wasn't in this one, it proved that the League works just as well without him. The scene between Diana and Batman at the end was a little bit of a surprise, but nothing bad. Who'd have thought a loner like Batman would've cared?...

[Squall]

You know what I still don't understand?

"The Brave and The Bold" had just as many nitpicks as "War World", but "War World" gets trashed for its nitpicks while "The Brave and The Bold" gets a World's Finest website standing ovation. Well, I loved both episodes (in fact, I've loved every Justice League episode so far, and it just keeps getting better, in my opinion). What's up with that? :confused:

[Spider]

Trent Lane,

"Who'd have thought a loner like Batman would've cared?..."

Well, after one look at Wonder Woman, I think I'd care too. ;)

[The Green Hornet]

squall you cant even compare WW to BB

WW had MAJOR plot problems, character problems etc


Brave + Bold is like the anti-WW

VERY good

for one things flash actually finishes what he started by beating Grodd


i mean by War World's logic Solovar (sp) shold have been the one to beat Grodd

flash should have stood around cheering him on and giving him pointers on how to fight =P

[RorShaq]

Originally posted by Squall
You know what I still don't understand?

"The Brave and The Bold" had just as many nitpicks as "War World", but "War World" gets trashed for its nitpicks while "The Brave and The Bold" gets a World's Finest website standing ovation. Well, I loved both episodes (in fact, I've loved every Justice League episode so far, and it just keeps getting better, in my opinion). What's up with that? :confused:

I just think that people, myself included, had very high expectations for Warworld

[The Guard]

Batman swung around on ropes long before Spider-Man was even considered.

[redDragon]

I for some reason, liked part 1 better than part 2. Over all a good ep but one part egged me. Hawkgirl and J'onn J'onzz just kind of stood around while Batman was trying to dig out Diana. Didn't they want to know if she was okay?

Batman doesn't want innocents and most people to get hurt so is it that odd that he would be digging through the rubble?

On the Batman/Wonder Woman thing, well I'm not a romance sucker so I don't really look into those kind of things.

When Flash took off the headband thing I thought he was gonna zoom over and steal Grodd's helmet before he could use it. Crossing the wires was better though ^^.

[CadaverousEyes]

Ah, there are our three heroes flying from the city. And there's Batman, several yards behind them. Run, Batman, run! Ouch. Well, there's an advantage to being "slow" on the ground after all, you don't accidently bump into force fields. Unless you're a Martian that lags slightly behind on purpose.

Heh, internet romance. Whoever mentioned that "illegal" possibility for her aid in his scheme nailed it down.

I was worried that this episode wouldn't be able to compare to the wonderful first half, but in my opinion, it was even better. Good to see that Grodd was only faking his condition too. He's a genius after all.

[Batman49]

Well what can I say that hasn't already been said. This episode was great. Probably my favorite so far in the series. I for one agree with Squall, I've liked all the episodes so far in varying degrees but I've like them all but this one stands out as one of my favorites so far. I'm just glad to see everyone enjoying an episode of JLA. Its been a while since I've seen that on this board. Well, I'm glad for that and the unexpected kiss from Wonder Woman, that was great. :D

Fil Aguilar

[FLIPMODE]

Before I go any further. !!!***TRY THIS AT HOME***!!!:
If you rewind and put "Slow Mo" on the part where flash pushes down Grodds helmet, you CAN actually see that he DID mess with his helmet. The only drawback is that, it lacks the Detail. I mean you dont actually see the wires, which he speaks of, but the point is they made the effort to go the extra mile, without showing Flash Back, in Slow-Mo. It's actaully meant to BE there in REAL_TIME. I found that cool, even if they did'nt Draw the actual crossing of Wires.


Batman swung around on ropes long before Spider-Man was even considered
UGGGG-THANK YOU!! -TheGuard-

Besides this review, that was my Primary reason for a Post.

HEY, PEOPLE BATMAN CAN SWING! Very long distances if need be, across Gotham, in continuos swoops. He's not the stiff he is in the movies. Check most any Batman book, and you'll see him swinging all the time. Most people will think about Spider-man, but Web slinging and swinging is another one of the concepts barrowed from Batman, to help create Spiderman.

Regarding the "why dont they pick up Batman", I wondered the same. But Im glad they did what they did. Anyone remember in "World's Finest" When Supes was recovering from Jokers attack, and the place was going to explode? Batman initiates the Supes flight, and Allows himself to be flown out buy Supes. BUT, if you pay close attention, after they land, Batman basically slaps Supes hand away, and backs away quickly. Batman does not like to be picked up.

But as far as I've seen GL seem's to be the only one qualified to lug Batman around. WHY? Because it does'nt look Stupid on Batman's Part. It kinda looks cool. But if you were Batman would you want Diana Flying you across the City by the back of your briefs, causing a serious wedgy? I think Not. It just looks dumb.
Certain heroes regardless of flight, just are'nt meant to be Carried. Besides they were probably too scared to Offer a ride.

Before the great review let me point out...WHY WAS BATMAN...the only one to help dig out Diana? Why did'nt MM phase himself into the ground to help Diana.
And eventhough, I thought it was slightly out of Batman's character, it was REAL close to how they Portrayed Batman on the original BTAS. The more the show went on the less of the caring side of him we saw. Combine that with the Current Batman attitude in recent issues of Bruce Wayne: Murderer and Fugitive, todays JL Ep, made it a real treat to see the Batman we dont get to see alot of, one that can handle ALL emotions, not just totally Grim. Other than that it probably made less sense for HIM to get worried because he of all the members should of guesstimated that she survived the wreck.

This was the Best episode so far, Tied with "Enemy Below". I can't discredit "EB", but BB is right there at #1 with it.

GL was great. Lets face it, GL did'nt hurl the nukes into Space Because that would leave none for MM WW and HG.
I think MM redeemed himself from the WW episodes, greatly. Infact, I'll probably never tire of that phase trick, if done correctly. But I need to see him use his Strength and Telepathy more.

"Your Naked" was the funniest line. Flash is the funniest man alive.
I liked the Kiss scene alot. And Batman's Face afterwards, is Hysterical!! I bet that's the LAST time he ever shows any emotion.

Nothings wrong with speculation regarding relationships. But I think it would be smart for the show to do a love triangle between the BIG 3. It can't hurt. It would probably be a case of, Superman lusting for WW, WW in love with Batman, and Batman constanly replying, "I HAVE NO TIME FOR LOVE!" That way everyone's unhappy and unsatisfied, good huh?

McDuffie, thanx for making a JL episode that easily provides, good dialogue, good use of powers and skill, a fitting story, and great efforts that made the JL finally look and feel like a Team, and not just a group of solo acts.

[Christo]

For an episode to get five stars from me, it has do many things. Get me worried or excited or curious or something. It has to have a hook that makes me want to suspend my disbelief. B&B did this well; in fact, it did it better than any JL episode so far, but for me the second part was a bit weaker than the first part.

For me, a great episode has to have me so wrapped up in the adventure that I don't sit and ask questions as it's going on; if the questions occur to me later, that's okay, as long as it doesn't ruin the moment. And usually the things that ruin the moment are "Why didn't . . . ?" questions.

Why didn't GL just hurl all the missles into space?
Why didn't GL lift Solivar and Flash out of the crowd?
Why didn't either GL or Flash just grab Grodd's headpiece?
Why did Flash and GL wake up in the same room? (At the end of part 1, GL and Solivar were downstairs)
Why didn't the missles act like normal ICBMs?
Why are there nuclear missles in Central City?
Why could GL get through the city's shield? If he went through at the same time the missles did, why wasn't he closer to them?
(And these are just the little irritating questions that occur to me as I watch -- not the things I can nitpick about afterwards.)

It's these little inconsistencies that keep JL from becoming all it can be. Sure, I can rationalize each of these questions away (in fact, we all spend time doing this on the message boards), but I shouldn't have to. A well thought-out plot and well-executed direction can keep us from asking these questions by immersing us in the action/story/character interaction. JL is showing improvement in these respects -- and this is the best episode by far -- but it has a way to go before it's perfect.


And on the Batman/WW romance thing -- I think it's just comradeship that we're all seeing. But isn't this the time-frame that Batman and Barbara (Batgirl) Gordon are supposed to be hooking up? Barbara refers to it in Batman Beyond as after Nightwing left and while she was still young.

And while I'm rambling: I'd love to see an updated Barbara Gordon as Oracle in Justice League.

[GL2k2]

This one hour episode was one of the best of the season thus far. It was reminiscent of BTAS and STAS, just the right enough action, humor, mystery, adventure, and suspense. This is how it should be done. Now we truly know the answer to what this show would be like if Paul Dini was a creative force.

Wonder Woman showed off a little, but this isn't a complaint, it helped her character. Can't wait for "Fury" now.

Batman as always is can't fail. He didn't allow to be picked up by one of the chicks or the martian. And he tried to conceal his emotions, failed and I'm sure he didn't mind after getting a peck on the cheek. He's really the only character on the team thus far who has let her be herself, remember his line in "Secret Origins": "No, let's see what she can do."

Flash had priceless lines in this episode, and proved he is not completely dumb like some complainers on this board. I can't wait for this series to come to DVD, cause this episode is a must have.

[Squall]

Hey, I think that every episode of Justice League is a must-have on DVD! :D

Do you think they'll release Justice League as Season 1, 2, 3, etc. DVD Box Sets some day?

I want to see "Injustice For All," "Fury," "A Knight in the Shadows," and "The Savage Time" now! Now! Now!!! :D I'm going to die from excitement before these episodes come out!

Heehee, I think that Batman and Wonder Woman are going to be "an item" before too long in Justice League. ;) And I think all of Justice League's creators, from Bruce Timm down, know this. If you rewatch ALL the episodes of Justice League that have aired so far (I did this tonight after I got home from work! :)), you'll notice the following every time Batman and Wonder Woman are in the same episode:

1. Whenever they're flying as a group, Wonder Woman is always the one who stops and waits for Batman to catch up. (The only exception so far being "The Brave and The Bold," Part II.)

2. Batman is always the JL member Wonder Woman defends by deflecting bullets/lasers with her bracelets. And she usually has to get pretty cozy with Batman to protect him like this! :p

3. In "Secret Origins," Part III, the first person Batman frees from the rock the other JL members are stuck in is Wonder Woman. And Wonder Woman is the one who carries Batman while flying out of the parasite aliens' ground base.

4. In "The Brave and The Bold," Part II, the first JL member Batman frees (by cutting loose their handcuffs with a Batarang) is Wonder Woman. Then he tries to save Wonder Woman from the missile she's *trapped* under, even though Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl think she's a goner. Then, when Wonder Woman realizes this, she kisses him -- in public, and in front of the other JL members, even though she knows he must have been embarassed like never before! :D

The evidence has been building for some time now, so I think it's gonna happen, heehee.

[RorShaq]

Originally posted by The Guard
Batman swung around on ropes long before Spider-Man was even considered.

I know, but when Batman does it, we should see some serious effort on his part. It shouldn't be second nature, like it is for Spider-Man.

And again, Wonder Woman is Superman's turf. Always has been, always will be.

[Joe Tully]

I know that this is a cliche, but did anyone else see Batman swinging around and say to themself, "There's no building near where that cable disappears. What is the grapple attached to?"

I gave this 4 stars. I didn't like this as much as part 1 and had some small problems with it. For some reason, it seemed wrong that Batman, WW and the others all got taken down so quickly with that one blast outside of the force field. I think that this would've been better if it had just been a GL and Flash story. And I was also wondering why GL didn't just grab all of the missles and toss them into space or something. There wasn't much tension when GL was falling. Sometimes you know what's going to happen, but there's still some feeling of suspense anyways, but instead I was just saying to myself, "Okay, wait until you're really close to the ground, then wake up." Flash had some good lines, I liked the way he took Grodd down although I figured there must be something wrong with the helmet from the way he was acting. I think that many of the ideas are good but just need to be polished up a little bit, in a way that is kind of hard to nail down, honestly. But since there is room for improvement but an overall good story, I gave it 4 out of 5.

[Domino]

Originally posted by RorShaq

And again, Wonder Woman is Superman's turf. Always has been, always will be.

There's a reason why there aren't any men on Themyscira. ;)

[Squall]

"And again, Wonder Woman is Superman's turf. Always has been, always will be."

Who says so? Everyone used to say the same thing about Lois Lane, but when Bruce Wayne dated her (heck, nearly got engaged to her!) in "World's Finest," no one seemed to be complaining...

You know, this makes me think of a great future Justice League episode idea!

(9) This two-parter would basically be "Grodd's return episode." Grodd rebuilds and regains access to his mind control devices (and even makes improvements), and tries to take control of the Jusitce League's minds in order to have them kill each other. He manages to take control of only two before the JL are onto him -- Superman and Batman. Then he makes Superman and Batman fight to the death over Wonder Woman! (Batman brings his extra Kryptonite from the Batcave for this fight, and, of course, the other JL members stop this fight before one kills the other.) As a result of his deviousness, Lex Luthor recruits him into the Injustice Gang (which is by then controlled by Darkseid from afar).

Please check out the thread "Episode ideas!!" to see my other 8 episode ideas, as well as others' great episode ideas, and let us know what you think of them! :D

[Failure]

I loved this episode. On par if not better than part 1. For the first time, the voice acting was great all around. I liked the gorillas voices, and I thought WW improved greatly. Plus, some great dialogue from the Flash. Excellent one-liners! Thanks Dwayne! And besides the comedy, the storyline was very involving, very action packed. I'd have to say this has been my favorite 2 parter so far. There were some things you could nitpick about, but nothing I'd consider major. 5 stars!

[The Green Hornet]

to whomever asked why there are nukes in central city


CC is in Missouri. Missouri houses/d a large part of the US ground base nuclear missiles known as Minutemen.

[Kal-el]

Some random thoughts about "Brave abd the Bold" Pt II:
Did anyone feel that WW was showing a bit more in the way of leadership in part II? Nothing major, but it just seemed to me that she was.
The kiss was great. It had me laughing very hard. WW seems to have a great deal of respect and admiration for Batman (commenting on how he designed the Javelin 7 and how the systems are reliable). Heck, she was the one who contacted Batman in the first place. She didn't call the Watchtower, she called Bats.
Batman's actions following the crash were moving. Not to read too much possible romance into the scene, but it makes one wonder (at least a little bit).
The scene when they escaped from the gorillas was grat. It was one of the best coordinated efforts the JL has shown thus far.
Flash was great. His dialogue was funny and, for Flash at least, appropriate. He actually had the upper hand on Grodd, which was nice to see for a change.
GL again showed his take charge attitude. I like that in his character. On reason he may not have thrown the missiles into space may have been becuase the Watchtower is out there. Maybe.
Overall, great episode. The dialogue was good, the voice acting was good, the animation was good. I really enjoyed this one.

[Naraht]

My take on "The Kiss!" is somewhat diffrent to those posted by the others...

I see JL as taking place after the "Bruce/Babs" relationship. I think it ended badly, but the relationship was prior to RotJ. If you watch the flashback, to me @ least, Bruce/Babs don't seem to be "an item", so my theory is plausible. Anyway, I think it most likely caused some strife in the Bat Family, and so now, Bruce is interested in WW, but at the same time, is comming off of a failed "Work" relationship, and doesn't want to risk it.

Anyway, that's my theory on the Batman side..

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


Originally posted by Squall
You know what I still don't understand?

"The Brave and The Bold" had just as many nitpicks as "War World", but "War World" gets trashed for its nitpicks while "The Brave and The Bold" gets a World's Finest website standing ovation. Well, I loved both episodes (in fact, I've loved every Justice League episode so far, and it just keeps getting better, in my opinion). What's up with that? :confused:

I can't speak for the other War World bashers, but I think the reason why I can let "BntB"'s inconsistencies go when I can't do it for "War World" (Part 2, mostly) was that "War World" (and all the other JL episodes, for that matter) were trying for Big, Serious, Epic Scope stories. "BntB" is a lot less serious, bordering on the comedic comics of Keith Giffen's early Justice League work, where the purpose is to get some laughs as heroes in spandex go out and save the world.

Personally, I'm a lot more willing to let inconsistencies go in comedies for the sake of a good laugh. Believability can be sacrificed for entertainment and comedic value. The average sitcom is a perfect example of this. "BntB" kept me laughing, and enjoying myself, so while I AM going to nitpick the usual stuff, I'm also a lot more willing to let it go here.

In contrast, things that are Big, Dramatic, Serious, and Epic need to be treated with the appropriate seriousness for me to enjoy it. This is why some of the really sloppy stuff in "Paradise Lost" and "War World Pt. 2" irked me as much as it did. If you're asking me to take a story seriously, you better get all your ducks in a row and make sure I can TAKE the story seriously. I think that's what BTAS (and, to a lesser extent, STAS) managed to do best.

Maxie Zeus said it best in another thread. Early on in "BntB," you realize that this show is being played for laughs and adjust your expectations accordingly.

-- Ed/Ace

[Spider]

Does anyone think that adjusting your expectations accordingly could be similar to suspending one's disbelief? I do both when I watch shows such as Justice League. I also put on a different set of ears depending on the genre of music I am analyzing. :)

[Apache Chief]

Two things:

First, this ep. was not excellent because of Superman's absence. After all, he was in Enemy Below and Paradise Lost, and we all liked those. Most of us anyway.

Two - the picking up Batman thing. Yes, we all know Batman is quite capable of taking care of himself, but the JL is a team. They were escaping from a prison, and someone should have given him a lift. Batman gets around Gotham just fine because he knows the city by heart, but Gorilla City? Batman was flown out of the collapsing alien base in Secret Origins and no one complained, least of all him.

[JTurner954]

FLIPMODE, World's Finest had enough of a romance story. I don't see it happening.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Squall
I think Green Lantern created the "moat" around Flash and Solovar because (1) he could have floated them somewhere else, but where else would have been safe? All of Central City was enclosed, and under Grodd's control. At least there they were out in the open... and (2) he was leaving them behind (fairly quickly, before the temporary hole in the city's sheild shut) to go chase the missiles.

Well, I think the reason GL didn't fly away with Flash to a safer area relies on Asimov's Three Rules of League-otics.

Rule 1: In every episode, a Justice Leaguer must, through action or inaction, cause property damage.

Flash caused plenty of property damage through inaction in the first episode, but nobody had destroyed much in this second episode yet, so GL volunteered.

:p

(Oh, and don't ask me what the other two rules are.)

[DCU Bat]

About That Kiss?

This I gotta see! Can someone post a screenshot of it? Please! :)

[The Green Hornet]

tis but a quick peck on the cheek as a thank you

im sure someone can post a vidcap

[Borg4of3]

I've got it this time!

http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/bo/borg4of3/.mids/ThePeck.jpg
The 'Peck'

http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/bo/borg4of3/.mids/TheReaction.jpg
The Reaction

[Spider]

Originally posted by Borg4of3
I've got it this time!

http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/bo/borg4of3/.mids/ThePeck.jpg
The 'Peck'

http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/bo/borg4of3/.mids/TheReaction.jpg
The Reaction

Borg4of3,

Many thanks for posting "The Peck"! :)

For a very brief moment, I thought I was looking at a tear in Wonder Woman's right eye. If that were the case, I'd have been beside myself. ;)

[peterparker05]

I think Grodd might have been the greatest villain of the series. If not the greatest, he's tied with Felix Faust.

[Borg4of3]

You know, the next episode has a lot going for it. Not only are we going with the less-is-more rule (that this episode proved can be true) with only Diana and Hawkgirl showing up, plus the fact that it is Diana and Hawkgirl, but also we've got another goddy villain who ought to be 10 times better than Hades leading members of the Injustice Gang! Hopefully the streak of 5 star episodes doesn't end here!

[Batman 80]

I found Grodd way cooler than Faust. I much rather have Grodd return than Faust.

[The Guard]

I know, but when Batman does it, we should see some serious effort on his part. It shouldn't be second nature, like it is for Spider-Man.

He's been doing it for YEARS. He fires a grapple off a roof and then leaps off the roof. Why shouldn't it be second nature?

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Originally posted by Batman 80
I found Grodd way cooler than Faust. I much rather have Grodd return than Faust.

Oh yeah...Grodd was ausome...I wasn't really too intersested in Felix Faust. I actually like Deadshot better than old Felix.

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by Borg4of3
You know, the next episode has a lot going for it. Not only are we going with the less-is-more rule (that this episode proved can be true) with only Diana and Hawkgirl showing up, plus the fact that it is Diana and Hawkgirl, but also we've got another goddy villain who ought to be 10 times better than Hades leading members of the Injustice Gang! Hopefully the streak of 5 star episodes doesn't end here! Didn't nothing say that the rest of the league shows up in the second half of "Fury" to fight the Injustice Gang?

[Blight]

This was a great episode! The best since "The Enemy Below"! I definitely noticed a bit of chemistry between Batman and WW, but I don't think it'll go anywhere in terms of a relationship. Also, I can't believe that scientist woman loved Grodd! She must have never gotten a single date in all her life to have fallen for a gorilla! Well, he was kinda handsome! :D The only thing I can honestly nitpick about is that this episode felt a bit rushed, but that might just be me. All in all, this was a really great episode and I give 4 1/2 stars (Points deducted for the rushed feeling). GO DINI!!! May you write more excellent episode in the future!

See ya!
Blight

[DerekPowers]

WOW, this was really a great ep. i really really enjoyed this arch, suprisingly since i never cared for the whole gorrilla grodd story and all. but it was really good, dar i say ~gasp~ the best arc so far!!!! heres how i see it right now...

1. brave and the bold 1&2

2. Paradise Lost 1&2, just a little better than...

3. The enemy below 1&2

well those are the best three so far, imo.

i really liked they way they used batman in this ep. he really filled the leader role in superman's absence. he was causing madd ruckuss!!!! you know the thing i really was surprised...the scenes with batman and ww, and hg, it reminded me or scenes from tnba where batmans working in a "team" with like batgirl and robin or nightwing. it played out nicely like that, with batman showing them how its done.

and flash and gl were great as well. You know, the thing i really loved about this one was it was a flash story from begining to end. they should do that more often, i think this arc worked the best in developing the characters it centered on.

yet they made a small mistake. since we now know the city WAS indeed central city, the metropolis police cars in part 1 during the solivar chase, was a mistake. since they never specified in part 1 that it was central city, i assumed it was metropolis. but it much cooler that it happened i flash's city.

peace.

[BeastBoyWonder]

yeah, central city was tiiiiiiiight.

[Justice League 2000]

that episode was the greatest ever when grood open his mouth
and hold his banana inside the cage it was so funny :D and wonder woman kiss batman was so cute. because he could lift the rocket. :)

[WonderRaver]

My take on the Batman swinging around... If he had been carried by one of the ladies, he too would have smashed into the force field. If MM had carried Bats, then J'onn wouldn't have been able to do the dramatic (yet unnecessary IMO) save.

-Matt