Is there not enough medieval sword-and-sorcery fantasy?

[Gorbash]

We all know that in the 80s and early 90s tv used to be bustling with Dragons, magic, and medival times like crazy. And plenty of the shows were awesome but now a days everyone seems to be focusing more on being modern and down to earth with all shows. In truth I miss seeing a knight in shining armor beat down a dragon, or a wizard shooting a giant blast of energy.

What do you think of this? Do you think there isn't enough fantasy cartoons (anime too I guess) on TV anymore?

Note: This thread is referencing to medieval fantasy.

[Gokou Ruri]

What do you think of this? Do you think there isn't enough fantasy cartoons (anime too I guess) on TV anymore? Fantasy is my favorite genre, mainly because you can do anything in it; where as more modern or 'grounded' series are extremely limited to just punching/kicking/firearms and so forth... while fantasy can actually have those and so much more. But I agree, I'd love to see more fantasy shows; especially if they're as unique and creative with the setting as W.I.T.C.H.: TAS was.

[soundmonkey44]

ANime has more then enough fantasy & Sci-fi, but its true most US & European cartoons of this decade havn't had as much fantasy as there predeccesors, but then again most of the good fanatasy elmements have been used or overused already so I don't really mind.:p :sweat:

[Gorbash]

ANime has more then enough fantasy & Sci-fi, but its true most US & European cartoons of this decade havn't had as much fantasy as there predeccesors, but then again most of the good fanatasy elmements have been used or overused already so I don't really mind.:p :sweat:

Really? I've only ever known 5 anime that ever did the fantasy (dragons, medival times) look (not talking about sci-fi.

[Gold Guy]

Really? I've only ever known 5 anime that ever did the fantasy (dragons, medival times) look (not talking about sci-fi.


Here is a short list of fantasy anime:

Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
MAR
Bleach
Shakugan no Shana
Shaman King
Almost all of Hayao Miyazaki's films
Kirby; Right Back at Ya
Kiba
Yu Yu Hakusho
Sailor Moon
Cardcaptor Sakura
Magic Knight Rayearth
Spider Riders
Shinzo


And tons more, but I think you get the message.

[Gorbash]

Here is a short list of fantasy anime:

Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
MAR
Bleach
Shakugan no Shana
Shaman King
Almost all of Hayao Miyazaki's films
Kirby; Right Back at Ya
Kiba
Yu Yu Hakusho
Sailor Moon
Cardcaptor Sakura
Magic Knight Rayearth
Spider Riders
Shinzo


And tons more, but I think you get the message.

Those are not the kind of fantasy I am talking about. Let me give you some of my examples.

Slayers
Rune Soldier

only one's you got right (according to my viewings) were

Shinzo
MAR

[Gold Guy]

Those are not the kind of fantasy I am talking about. Let me give you some of my examples.

Slayers
Rune Soldier

only one's you got right (according to my viewings) were

Shinzo
MAR

In this Wikipedia summary, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy, it says that "Fantasy is a genre that uses magic and other forms of supernatural forms as a primary theme".

Bleach is fantasy because it has high schoolers with magical powers that fight supernatural spirits.

Spider Riders is fantasy because it involves a boy that falls in a magic portal that takes him to a magical world.

Sailor Moon is fantasy because it has some girls with magic powers and talking cats fighting weird monsters from other worlds.

See?

[Gorbash]

In this Wikipedia summary, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy, it says that "Fantasy is a genre that uses magic and other forms of supernatural forms as a primary theme".

Bleach is fantasy because it has high schoolers with magical powers that fight supernatural spirits.

Spider Riders is fantasy because it involves a boy that falls in a magic portal that takes him to a magical world.

Sailor Moon is fantasy because it has some girls with magic powers and talking cats fighting weird monsters from other worlds.

See?

There are different forms of it. I am talking about medival fantasy we have enough regular fantasy but I am talking about medival, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

[macattack]

Then next time clarify your statement to mean "medieval fantasy", which indeed there are not enough of. But just the word "fantasy" crosses a wide spectrum, as mkalv just showed.

One medieval anime you might be interested in is Shadow Skill, particularly because it bends gender stereotypes.

[Gold Guy]

There are different forms of it. I am talking about medival fantasy we have enough regular fantasy but I am talking about medival, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.


Oh, sorry. My bad.

Hmm. I don't know any medieval anime.

[Hypestyle]

there needs to be a revival of the Dungeons & Dragons series, with the original characters, older.. ;)

[Gokou Ruri]

there needs to be a revival of the Dungeons & Dragons series, with the original characters, older.. ;) I'd rather see one set in the Forgotten Realms territory, with an actual storyline this time around. Forgotten Realms is my favorite campaign setting for D&D. Fat chance of that ever happening, though.

[Anwar]

Eh, maybe it's time someone tried for a Magitek series: A show where technology and magic are merged in usage.

This explains it better what I mean: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Magitek

[Mynd Hed]

Took the liberty of changing the thread title to more closely reflect what the OP is looking for.

[Sabregroove]

I'd rather see one set in the Forgotten Realms territory, with an actual storyline this time around. Forgotten Realms is my favorite campaign setting for D&D. Fat chance of that ever happening, though.

I second that. It'd be nice to see a new D & D-styled animated series - something with the scope of Lord of the Rings, but less grounded in reality. As much as I love LOTR, Peter Jackson always said he wanted it to feel more like a HISTORY than a FANTASY, and I really want a fantasy.

Marn, please explain why you think a Forgotten Realms series would never happen. I don't know too much about FR, to tell the truth. Is it copyrights you're concerned with or subject matter? Too many characters to boil down into a 30-minute deal? I'm curious.

[Starbro]

Eh, maybe it's time someone tried for a Magitek series: A show where technology and magic are merged in usage.

This explains it better what I mean: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Magitek


My brother and I are kind of doing something like that. We're developing a cartoon called Wimzee & Zap which takes place in a fantasy realm which combines sci-fi and fantasy elements. Also, despite having numerous magical fantasy trappings like fairies, monsters and wizards, its' setting resembles a contemporary/futuristic society, with TVs, computers, flying cars, laser swords and superheroes.


I love fantasy stuff, but I admit that I'm a little tired of the setting of such shows always being medieval. Medieval is kind of old hat, IMO. So we tried to do something different with our show.

[TheTerror]

We all know that in the 80s and early 90s tv used to be bustling with Dragons, magic, and medival times like crazy. And plenty of the shows were awesome but now a days everyone seems to be focusing more on being modern and down to earth with all shows. In truth I miss seeing a knight in shining armor beat down a dragon, or a wizard shooting a giant blast of energy.

What do you think of this? Do you think there isn't enough fantasy cartoons (anime too I guess) on TV anymore?

Note: This thread is referencing to medieval fantasy.

There could be more in the way of this kind of storytelling in american animation, definatly. Maybe it will see a resurgance soon?

[Kagetsu]

Took the liberty of changing the thread title to more closely reflect what the OP is looking for.Good idea. Fantasy was wAy too broad even though I could see the original topic was was Wizards and Warrior sort of thing.

I think they simply won't make them. Even back when they tried, we got things like "Dungeons and Dragons". Total crap, both in story and animation. Until you move up to SciFi, all characters have to come from "our time" because 6-11 have to be able to relate to it. So sword skills have to come from video game skills. Medieval warfare is bloody and tireing. Not something they will use for animation. Magic and demons,,, well if you go farther than Pokimon, you deal with religious evil and good. Most Marketers aren't going to risk that. The only one I can say I really liked is "The Hobbit" and even that was cluttered with crummy musical stuff.

[Gokou Ruri]

Marn, please explain why you think a Forgotten Realms series would never happen. I don't know too much about FR, to tell the truth. Is it copyrights you're concerned with or subject matter? Too many characters to boil down into a 30-minute deal? I'm curious. Oh, just because of the obscurity and whatnot. If they ever did make another D&D cartoon, it'd probably be it's own, general setting, or a mishmash of all the campaign settings.

For the record, the Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 games took place in FR. I'd personally love to see a series adaption of NWN2. Great characters, epic story (though hardly orginal) and a great setting. Though any fantasy series would be great, as long as it had some creative effort put into it.


I love fantasy stuff, but I admit that I'm a little tired of the setting of such shows always being medieval. Which shows? I'm all for variety, but I think fantasy shows are rare enough that it can't be considered overplayed yet.

[Gorbash]

Good idea. Fantasy was wAy too broad even though I could see the original topic was was Wizards and Warrior sort of thing.

I think they simply won't make them. Even back when they tried, we got things like "Dungeons and Dragons". Total crap, both in story and animation. Until you move up to SciFi, all characters have to come from "our time" because 6-11 have to be able to relate to it. So sword skills have to come from video game skills. Medieval warfare is bloody and tireing. Not something they will use for animation. Magic and demons,,, well if you go farther than Pokimon, you deal with religious evil and good. Most Marketers aren't going to risk that. The only one I can say I really liked is "The Hobbit" and even that was cluttered with crummy musical stuff.


That was in the original kid's book you know?

[Kagetsu]

That was in the original kid's book you know?No, not really. I only read the original Tolkien novels.

[Gorbash]

No, not really. I only read the original Tolkien novels.

Well those songs were in the Hobbit. That's why no one was singing them out loud like disney movies do.
But with LOTR, Rankin Bass wanted to make their own songs so that way it stayed a kids movie.

[Kagetsu]

Well those songs were in the Hobbit. That's why no one was singing them out loud like disney movies do.
But with LOTR, Rankin Bass wanted to make their own songs so that way it stayed a kids movie.Now that you mention,,, I do think I remember the "Break the plates, thats what Bilbo Bagins hates" being written in the story. LotR I only remember that I really liked the design of Gondor and the "Bearer of the Ring" song was rather good.

[Starbro]

Originally Posted by Silverstar
I love fantasy stuff, but I admit that I'm a little tired of the setting of such shows always being medieval.

Which shows? I'm all for variety, but I think fantasy shows are rare enough that it can't be considered overplayed yet.

Galtar and the Golden Lance, World of Quest, Smurfs, Conan and the Young Adventurers, The Legend of Zelda, Dragon's Lair, Dungeons & Dragons. (The latter 3 of course being based on video game titles.) Several RPGs have medieval or pseudo-medieval settings.

[Gorbash]

Originally Posted by Silverstar
I love fantasy stuff, but I admit that I'm a little tired of the setting of such shows always being medieval.


Galtar and the Golden Lance, World of Quest, Smurfs, Conan and the Young Adventurers, The Legend of Zelda, Dragon's Lair, Dungeons & Dragons. (The latter 3 of course being based on video game titles.) Several RPGs have medieval or pseudo-medieval settings.

You do realize most of that was made in the 80s correct?

[Starbro]

Originally Posted by Me
I love fantasy stuff, but I admit that I'm a little tired of the setting of such shows always being medieval.

Galtar and the Golden Lance, World of Quest, Smurfs, Conan and the Young Adventurers, The Legend of Zelda, Dragon's Lair, Dungeons & Dragons. (The latter 3 of course being based on video game titles.) Several RPGs have medieval or pseudo-medieval settings.

You do realize most of that was made in the 80s correct?

Yeah, what's your point? I'd just like to see a fantasy show that doesn't have a medieval setting for a change. How is the decade those shows were made in relevant?

[Gorbash]

Originally Posted by Me
I love fantasy stuff, but I admit that I'm a little tired of the setting of such shows always being medieval.

Galtar and the Golden Lance, World of Quest, Smurfs, Conan and the Young Adventurers, The Legend of Zelda, Dragon's Lair, Dungeons & Dragons. (The latter 3 of course being based on video game titles.) Several RPGs have medieval or pseudo-medieval settings.


Yeah, what's your point? I'd just like to see a fantasy show that doesn't have a medieval setting for a change. How is the decade those shows were made in relevant?

The fact that they were done quite a long time ago and that we haven't really touched the medieval setting when it comes to fantasy in such a long time. We've mostly been modern or futuristic fantasy nowadays we've had 20 years to wait for a medieval setting.

[Gokou Ruri]

I'd say time-frame is definately important. If we only get one or two western fantasy shows since the 80s (He-Man, W.I.T.C.H.) then you can't say it's overdone; especially when a lot of those 80s shows were...forgetable, to say the least. The only type of fantasy I might say is overplayed these days is Asian mythology, considering the glut of recent shows that involve it (Jackie Chan Adventures, Xiaolin Showdown, Ninja Turtles, Samurai Jack, Avatar, Jake Long to a degree, and so forth) but as for western-esque fantasy, it's definately a rarity; especially ones that are actually good and put effort into building their world. We got a ton of the Asian-esque shows in a few years, but what was the fantasy show before WITCH? He-Man quite a few years earlier. Before that? Er... I don't recall.

[EinBebop]

I'd rather see one set in the Forgotten Realms territory, with an actual storyline this time around. Forgotten Realms is my favorite campaign setting for D&D. Fat chance of that ever happening, though.If Dragonlance can get a dtv movie, I certainly wouldn't rule out Drizzt Do'urden and company getting a shot.

[Kagetsu]

I'd say time-frame is definately important. If we only get one or two western fantasy shows since the 80s (He-Man, W.I.T.C.H.) then you can't say it's overdone; especially when a lot of those 80s shows were...forgetable, to say the least. The only type of fantasy I might say is overplayed these days is Asian mythology, considering the glut of recent shows that involve it (Jackie Chan Adventures, Xiaolin Showdown, Ninja Turtles, Samurai Jack, Avatar, Jake Long to a degree, and so forth) but as for western-esque fantasy, it's definately a rarity; especially ones that are actually good and put effort into building their world. We got a ton of the Asian-esque shows in a few years, but what was the fantasy show before WITCH? He-Man quite a few years earlier. Before that? Er... I don't recall.Ahh, you left out Juniper Lee[/lol] Technically, W.I.T.C.H. is as Asian as the others. Elemental magic, Yan-Lin's story of the four dragons, the "temple" of Candracar and the need for harmony among the gardians all being very Zen.

Remember the problems D&D the game had when it went main steam. Parents did not like the evil side that the kids could imagine doing. Asian demons are not understood as evil. There is always a chi balance. Black magic and Sorcery are not really accepted kid entertainment.

[Gorbash]

Ahh, you left out Juniper Lee[/lol] Technically, W.I.T.C.H. is as Asian as the others. Elemental magic, Yan-Lin's story of the four dragons, the "temple" of Candracar and the need for harmony among the gardians all being very Zen.

Remember the problems D&D the game had when it went main steam. Parents did not like the evil side that the kids could imagine doing. Asian demons are not understood as evil. There is always a chi balance. Black magic and Sorcery are not really accepted kid entertainment.

But we are in a society where the darkness achieved in D&D is now more common place in cartoons today. I'm sure that we could go as far as say, Zelda Majora's Mask darkness on TV.

[Kagetsu]

But we are in a society where the darkness achieved in D&D is now more common place in cartoons today. I'm sure that we could go as far as say, Zelda Majora's Mask darkness on TV.
I've yet to see a vid game translate to an animation well. I don't really know much about Zelda. Mask magic is not something most people can relate to. It could run along the line of Ben 10. In Native American magic, you can take on the power of the Being represented by the mask. It also crosses into Japanese mythos. It could be great. It also doesn't require obvious invocation, though it really is the same. Good action shows usually need a pre-story. Usually a comic or book. If a show can avoid slicing an enemy in two,,, it could work

[macattack]

My brother and I are kind of doing something like that. We're developing a cartoon called Wimzee & Zap which takes place in a fantasy realm which combines sci-fi and fantasy elements. Also, despite having numerous magical fantasy trappings like fairies, monsters and wizards, its' setting resembles a contemporary/futuristic society, with TVs, computers, flying cars, laser swords and superheroes.


I love fantasy stuff, but I admit that I'm a little tired of the setting of such shows always being medieval. Medieval is kind of old hat, IMO. So we tried to do something different with our show.

Hehe, I have a radioplay going which uses magitek concepts. Glad I'm not the only one who's fascinated by such things.

Wouldn't mind hearing more about the cartoon someday. Good luck with the development!

[Gokou Ruri]

Ahh, you left out Juniper Lee[/lol] Technically, W.I.T.C.H. is as Asian as the others. Elemental magic, Yan-Lin's story of the four dragons, the "temple" of Candracar and the need for harmony among the gardians all being very Zen. I don't recall much of Juniper Lee, did they actually go into Asian mythology or was the only thing Asian about the show the fact that she was Chinese? Though W.I.T.C.H. is not really Asian in the slightest bit (aside from Hay Lin, anyway). Elemental magic isn't "Asian", and Meridian is clearly based on the European renaissance era, specifically French and Italian archetecture.

[judyindisguise]

If I thought there was a chance that a new version of Dungeons and Dragons would be half as cool as the original, I'd be all for it coming back. But I think the original had a great voice cast with real chemistry, and that's not something that's easily duplicated, unfortunately.

[Starbro]

If I thought there was a chance that a new version of Dungeons and Dragons would be half as cool as the original, I'd be all for it coming back. But I think the original had a great voice cast with real chemistry, and that's not something that's easily duplicated, unfortunately.

I agree. Too much time has elapsed. Any follow-up to D&D now would be a disappointment, unless it were to be an all-new continuity with all-new characters and events. But the show with Hank, Presto and co. is finished and should stay finished. I prefer to leave that D&D show with the open-ended "Requiem" finale; there's no need for them to go beyond that. Let the audience fill in their own blanks as to what happened next.

[Gorbash]

I don't recall much of Juniper Lee, did they actually go into Asian mythology or was the only thing Asian about the show the fact that she was Chinese? Though W.I.T.C.H. is not really Asian in the slightest bit (aside from Hay Lin, anyway). Elemental magic isn't "Asian", and Meridian is clearly based on the European renaissance era, specifically French and Italian archetecture.

Juniper Lee was into a mix of mythology, mostly magical creatures but I'd say she's like not European magic or Asian magic. A weird creation that spawned from the creator's mind.

[Kagetsu]

Juniper Lee was into a mix of mythology, mostly magical creatures but I'd say she's like not European magic or Asian magic. A weird creation that spawned from the creator's mind.Yea, while i still like the show, It's only real aspect of magic was the use of talismans, which spans all forms of magic, and the need for "balance". Balance is only found in Asian magic. In it you can't destroy evil only contain it. In it you find the elements for our chi. Granted it's bigger than our standard 4. Water, wood, metal, fire, earth, air. It runs to their medicine where each represents a body power.

Western Europe magic is all about power above and below. To call magic you either need to be pure of heart to invoke divine power, or make a deal with demons to invoke their power. Sorcerers and Wizards tend to surpass and bridge both powers in ledgon. it also relies alot on stellar positions.

The little I can conclude of African and mid-Eastern magic generally lies with curses. The "Evil Eye" or using effigies like Voodoo dolls.