When Cartoons That SHOULD Have Been Good Go Bad

[Sabregroove]

Here's a question. I'm an old dude, so this is mostly aimed at anyone who actually wants to make cartoons (writer/director/animator, etc.) for a living, but even if you don't I'd still like to hear your thoughts.

I know I'm not the only person this has happened to. Have you ever been excited for a new cartoon that had a premise that was so cool or clever or innovative and then ended up really disappointed with the show once you saw it? I'll give you an example from the 80's:

C.O.P.S. - Now, I know what you're saying right now. "What's he talking about? That show was awesome!" But if you watch it again, you'll find that it's mostly not. I mean, come on. It's in the future. There are highly-trained police specialists with some seriously righteous gear (remember Longarm's grappling line handcuffs?) fighting criminals the likes of which I haven't seen since the days of Dick Tracy. What could possibly go wrong? Oh, and all those guys were designed by Bart Sears, by the way, so the show looked spectacular, but that's where half the problem was.

C.O.P.S. only ever looked good. It very rarely was good.

Most of the crooks were woefully inept (see: Berserko, Buttons McBoomBoom, Rock Krusher) and even a few of the cops were apt to throw in the towel anytime the going got rough (see: Ace, Barricade). The show ran for 66 episodes, and of those 66, I think something like 5 of the episodes were what I would call great.

The capers were almost always pretty lame, the action sequences were hardly ambitious, and the stakes were so low so much of the time that they bordered on insignificant. I never felt like the bad guys were a threat save for in the first two episodes. This is cops and robbers, man! What could be more pure than that? That show should've been balls-to-the-wall every episode and it NEVER WAS!

You don't have to agree or disagree with me about C.O.P.S. That's not the point of the thread. That's just a show that burned me.

So I ask you, what cartoons were you really psyched for and got let down by? And, if you could have, what would you have changed in those cartoons to make them better? I think this thread has potential for some great discussion about what makes a cartoon work vs. what makes one, you know, not. But enough ranting from me. What are your thoughts?

______________________________________
"Hagen's gone; make him stop haunting me!"

[Dr.Pepper]

Do movies count? If so, then Disney's Atlantis is by far the biggest let down in my life.

[Sabregroove]

Movies most certainly DO count. And I share your pain on that particular flick. What would you have done differently?

______________________________________
"Hagen's gone; make him stop haunting me!"

[Zorak Masaki]

All the GI Joe revivals (the DiC eps, Extreme, Sigma Six). All had potential to try and reinvent the franchise for a new generation, but DiC was more childish than the 80s show ever was, Extreme looked like a bad image comic (even buzz dixon who wrote for the show admits it was a disapointment), and Sigma Six was a bad attempt to try and add an anime influence. Lets hope we see a GOOD attempt at a Joe cartoon soon.

[creativerealms]

The Eighties TMNT. The show was not horrible at the beginning but it gets worse each season. season one (The five part mini series) was good, season two was ok, season three ranged from average to bad but remained average, but by season five the show became nearly unwatchable and was basicly a parody of itself. This show way over used fourth wall jokes.

[CyberCubed]

The Eighties TMNT. The show was not horrible at the beginning but it gets worse each season. season one (The five part mini series) was good, season two was ok, season three ranged from average to bad but remained average, but by season five the show became nearly unwatchable and was basicly a parody of itself. This show way over used fourth wall jokes.

Seasons 1-3 were fairly good. The first half of Season 4 was weak, but the second half was good. Season 5 just had no real fighting, but the stories were decent, same for Season 6.

Season 7 was great though, and brought it back to the way it was in Season 1. And of course Seasons 8-10 were the final Red Sky seasons, which were a nice attempt to make the show darker.

[Dr.Pepper]

Movies most certainly DO count. And I share your pain on that particular flick. What would you have done differently?
I think that I would have made it less action and more fantasy.

[Terra Branford]

Do movies count? If so, then Disney's Atlantis is by far the biggest let down in my life.

I agree with you. The movie didn't really grab me to continue to watch it. The plot also didn't interest me at all.

[garfield15]

-Oh Atlantis. You could have been so much better than you were but somehow screwed everything up in the second half. (Anyone remember the trailer to that movie? It was freakin' sick)

-Titan A.E.-The trailer, astounding. The music, incredible, the CGI, flawless. The characters and Plot....eh...not so much. Now don't take this to mean that I hated Titan A.E. because I didn't. I still watch it today. But I'm not gonna lie, the story is off. It really has some elements that I think could have been explained a little better like the Gaoul (sp?) and I always had a problem with the ending on how everything was solved just like that. But hey, I'm not an explaining person and this is sounding more like a fanboy's rant than a criticism so I'll move on

-Every animated movie the Nostalgia Critic has reviewed-I have the good fortune of having seen all the animated movies that he's ragged on and I do have to agree with a lot of his points. Even Space Jam. And I loved Space Jam! (Though that will change with Rock-A-Doodle and Titanic:Animated) If you need an explanation, go watch his videos. :p

-Godzilla: The Series/MIB: The Series-These two came out at around the same time (Of course I could be dead wrong) so I figured that I should share my criticisms about both. Now the idea of Godzilla the series as well as a Men In Black series drove me up the wall but the plots seemed, well, cheap. Granted this is a Saturday morning cartoon so I have to give some leverage but I expected Godzilla vs. Mothra every week and I got...Godzilla vs. Alien-of-the-week. Same for MIB though I at least felt like watching MIB every week. Anyway, I was dissapointed by Godzilla. MIB, not so much but they both could have been better.

-Ben 10: Alien Force-I'm just gonna say that the premise sounded interesting but the characters are boring as heck. I found myself dissapointed when I didn't feel like watching the next episode.

[Bloody Marquis]

Beast Machines - I remember loving BW as a kid, and was hoping that BM would be just as good. But with the bad attempts to look dark, the out-of-character moments (the one where Rattrap decided to betray the other Maximals being a major low point in the series), Nightscream, and the overall dissatisfaction with what was going on, I just thought it was a complete letdown.

[chdr]

I thought Camp Lazlo would have been the next "Rocko's Modern Life".

I was wrong.

[Neo Ultra Mike]

This is probably going to get some rocks thrown at me but... Megas XLR. (Dodges rocks from angry fans around TZ). Yeah I know the show's fairly popular around here with some people, but I don't really like it. The premise of it seemed really cool AND Clever: Let's have an american made giant mecha show. And instead of an angst ridden teenager as a top notch pilot it's a fat new Jersey grease monkey into video games, TV, and of course eating everything. With excellent looking animation and top notch voice acting this show seemed like it would be really good. And the pilot Lowbrow 6 minute short showed that as well. Unfourantley for the most part this cartoon blew due to the writing. There were some clever moments but the majority of the episodes had a bunch of lame too long to really laugh at jokes and not really too interesting plots. Also if there was one show this decade that over did the "at least things can't get any worse" line it'd be Megas. I'm not saying it's the worst show ever but it's defintley one that "went bad" for me more then it should of.

[Scirel]

-Godzilla: The Series/MIB: The Series-These two came out at around the same time (Of course I could be dead wrong) so I figured that I should share my criticisms about both. Now the idea of Godzilla the series as well as a Men In Black series drove me up the wall but the plots seemed, well, cheap. Granted this is a Saturday morning cartoon so I have to give some leverage but I expected Godzilla vs. Mothra every week and I got...Godzilla vs. Alien-of-the-week. Same for MIB though I at least felt like watching MIB every week. Anyway, I was dissapointed by Godzilla. MIB, not so much but they both could have been better.

-Ben 10: Alien Force-I'm just gonna say that the premise sounded interesting but the characters are boring as heck. I found myself dissapointed when I didn't feel like watching the next episode.

Godzilla actually had a reason.

Most Godzilla fans know that Toho is PARANOID about their Kaiju, especially godzilla. If you have a monster that even SLIGHTLY RESEMBLES Godzilla, (aka, any upright dinosaurian creature with spines) the will sue the hell out of you. The RIAA has got NOTHING on Toho.

Anyone remember the "5 dollar footlong" subway commerical with the monster that was replaced by a robot?

Yeah, that was Toho.

So even for a series based on a version of their monster, they wouldn`t let the series use versions of the classic monsters, forcing zilla to fight generic creatures each week.

Ben 10 Ailen force is different. While, IMO it is far better/more mature than Ben 10, I`m really dissapointed how the show is still so episodic, with very little connecting plot. There's nothing to wonder about or look forward to usually.

[DarthGonzo]

Godzilla actually had a reason.

Most Godzilla fans know that Toho is PARANOID about their Kaiju, especially godzilla. If you have a monster that even SLIGHTLY RESEMBLES Godzilla, (aka, any upright dinosaurian creature with spines) the will sue the hell out of you. The RIAA has got NOTHING on Toho.

Anyone remember the "5 dollar footlong" subway commerical with the monster that was replaced by a robot?

Yeah, that was Toho.

So even for a series based on a version of their monster, they wouldn`t let the series use versions of the classic monsters, forcing zilla to fight generic creatures each week.

Toho also charges separate licensing fees for the various other monsters, which prevents some companies from using monsters like Ghidora, Mothra or Mechagodzilla.

[Shift]

Off the top of my head, I'd say House of Mouse: what I was hoping for was a chance to see how all those Disney characters would interact with one another, but basically, it took just about every movie character and turned them into walking one-liners. They were completely limited by what they had done in their movies; every joke, every visual, every fiber of their beings. Only the main Mickey cast were able to have some dimensionality, being the obvious stars of the show, and all. In any case, the KH series was Disney-cross-over land done right.

[Ghostbuster Man]

Most Anime and Animated Sitcoms- it seems these days that these kinds of shows can't get through an entire season with out reminding us that:

1. Everything we loved and grew up and believed in was a joke

2. Having normal concepts like eating meat and having a heterosexual relationship isn't worth the pain

3. Have the supporting cast or one character hog the spotlight by either torturing the main character or make him or her or them an unlikeable, narcissistic, uncaring cloth-eared nonce

And 4. That America is a cesspool of sex and violence and that our government needs to be taken down and replaced with some New World Order from some Third-World Country.

(of course, this can be said about any franchise from any media)

YinYangYo!- the action was cool and the humor was so-so, but the problem was Yin and Yang's sexist attitudes that killed it for me.

Chowder- Geese! A lot of shows these days are trying to be like Spongebob and this is one of them. Everybody but the main character looks like they are gonna commit suicide or go on a killing spree!

6TEEN- to me, there have been one to many teen toons to many the past 10-20 years. This show has become to stereotypical.

The Secret Saturdays- at first, I liked this show what with the cool cryptozoology science and the action and all, but unfortunately like Dragon Ball Z and Beast Wars, it gets dragged down by overbearing parents, getting rid of all the good characters, and letting the bad guys win.

Ben 10- I admit the franchise is great but a lot of the first series shows was god-awful cause Ben and the others used to get at each others throats over everything!

[chdr]

Chowder- Geese! A lot of shows these days are trying to be like Spongebob and this is one of them. Everybody but the main character looks like they are gonna commit suicide or go on a killing spree!
The main reason for that was because creator C.H. Greenblatt was a Spongebob writer.

[Blackstar]

This is probably going to get some rocks thrown at me but... Megas XLR. (Dodges rocks from angry fans around TZ). Yeah I know the show's fairly popular around here with some people, but I don't really like it. The premise of it seemed really cool AND Clever: Let's have an american made giant mecha show. And instead of an angst ridden teenager as a top notch pilot it's a fat new Jersey grease monkey into video games, TV, and of course eating everything. With excellent looking animation and top notch voice acting this show seemed like it would be really good. And the pilot Lowbrow 6 minute short showed that as well. Unfourtantely for the most part this cartoon blew due to the writing. There were some clever moments but the majority of the episodes had a bunch of lame too long to really laugh at jokes and not really too interesting plots. Also if there was one show this decade that over did the "at least things can't get any worse" line it'd be Megas. I'm not saying it's the worst show ever but it's defintley one that "went bad" for me more then it should of.

Don't worry. *Shows empty hands* I'm not going to throw rocks at you. You're entitled to your opinion, but respectfully, I have to disagree. I thought that Megas XLR was great. it was one of the few shows airing on Cartoon Network at the time that I made it a point not to miss. While there were some episodes of Megas that I liked more than others ("Bad Guy" "All I Wanted Was a Slushee", and "Department of Megas Violations" stand out in my memory as being among the funniest), but I enjoyed every minute of it.

[Starbro]

YinYangYo!- the action was cool and the humor was so-so, but the problem was Yin and Yang's sexist attitudes that killed it for me.

In what way did Yin and Yang have sexist attitudes? They were intentionally comically exaggerated versions of boy and girl archetypes, nothing more, and certainly nothing sexist.


Chowder- Geese! A lot of shows these days are trying to be like Spongebob and this is one of them. Everybody but the main character looks like they are gonna commit suicide or go on a killing spree!The buh? You're declaring Chowder a failure just because of the character designs? Have you actually seen any episodes of Chowder? Yes, the show's creator was a writer on SpongeBob, but the show is not, repeat, not a ripoff of SpongeBob. It has a unique humor and writing style all its' own. I personally think Chowder is one of the best shows to come down the pike in recent years.

[garfield15]

Chowder- Geese! A lot of shows these days are trying to be like Spongebob and this is one of them. Everybody but the main character looks like they are gonna commit suicide or go on a killing spree!

Which is funny because this is why I love Chowder. All the characters look so insane!

[veemonjosh]

Chowder- Geese! A lot of shows these days are trying to be like Spongebob and this is one of them. Everybody but the main character looks like they are gonna commit suicide or go on a killing spree!

Chowder has never tried to be like Spongebob. The only connection that can possibly be drawn to Spongebob is that the creator was a script writer, otherwise there's absolutely nothing in this show that is even comparable. This isn't Coconut Fred's Fruit Salad Island we're talking about.

Also, yeah, that's a stylistic choice, like how all the main characters in Flapjack look cartoony, but everyone else looks hideously realistic.

[Blackstar]

The Secret Saturdays- at first, I liked this show what with the cool cryptozoology science and the action and all, but unfortunately like Dragon Ball Z and Beast Wars, it gets dragged down by overbearing parents, getting rid of all the good characters, and letting the bad guys win.

Que? Doc and Drew are among the coolest characters on The Secret Saturdays, and what overbearing parents on Dragon Ball Z are you talking about?

[garfield15]

Also, yeah, that's a stylistic choice, like how all the main characters in Flapjack look cartoony, but everyone else looks hideously realistic.
But the Candy Lady makes me cry.....

[Rolling Cloud]

what overbearing parents on Dragon Ball Z are you talking about?


http://www.freewebs.com/daughterofhades/Chi%20Chi.jpg

[Blackstar]

[quote=Blackstar;3152168]


http://www.freewebs.com/daughterofhades/Chi%20Chi.jpg

OK, Chi-Chi, I'll give you that, but she was just 1 character on DBZ, and a fairly minor character at that. I wouldn't say that she brought down the entire show. Anyway, I guess I'm in the minority as I'm one of the few DBZ fans who doesn't hate Chi-Chi.

[Bloody Marquis]

And where ChiChi is being overbearing at making her son smart, Goku's just as overbearing at making his son a fighter.

[Marvin Tikvah]

I was once looking forward to Danny Phantom because it looked like Butch Hartman finally had a chance to write something besides humor, especially since Fairly Oddparents had moments of over the top action and some character development in the early seasons. However, the show felt very lacking in my opinion. Many of the characters had a boring 1 note personality, especially Sam who despite being a good person, bothered me so much with her agenda pushing ways. Danny himself did nothing to stand out from other shonen heroes at the time. The villains were also complete jokes. It's like the recycled some of Timmy's worst tormentors by just giving them a green coat of paint.

The show would've been better if the school aspect was either toned down or ignored completely. It may not have been as believable, but I really dislike characters who have an insatiable need to be popular. His rogue's gallery could also stand to be a little more intimidating, which means less one-liners per scene. It worked in Kim Possible, but not here. Finally, the fight scenes needed a lot of work.

There are also a bunch of minor quips that could've been fixed, but those are the main reason why I couldn't enjoy this show.

[Starbro]

The Secret Saturdays- at first, I liked this show what with the cool cryptozoology science and the action and all, but unfortunately like Dragon Ball Z and Beast Wars, it gets dragged down by overbearing parents, getting rid of all the good characters, and letting the bad guys win.

Ah, no. Doc and Drew Saturday are not overbearing. At all. They are friendly, supportive and nurturing parents who have barely ever raised their voices or their hands to their son Zak. They let their son go with them on their adventures, and train him and try to teach him to hone his powers, plus they're always around to save Zak from himself since, frankly, Zak is a little hard-headed, impulsive and reckless. Add to that how neither one of them is a dufus, a psycho or a perpetual absentee.

Plus they treat and acknowledge their cryptid pets as their "children" and Zak's "siblings". What overbearing parent would do that?

I don't know which "good characters" you're referring to who were gotten rid of, but I will (partially agree with you that Argost and Van Rook do have more victories over the Saturdays. But in the case of Argost, the Kur Stone plot is a story arc, so I'm guessing that there will be suitable payoff in the future.

[Neo Yi]

Do movies count? If so, then Disney's Atlantis is by far the biggest let down in my life.

I'm playing devil's advocate because I adore that film. It's not perfect, but I love that movie (I guess it's a guilty pleasure?) Treasure Planet on the other hand I thought as average. There wasn't much oomph to it and was rather straightforward. I think it would have been better if the characters weren't so strictly one-dimensional and/or boring. That was the case for Atlantis, but I enjoyed their presence due to their interesting quirks and clever one-liners.


It may not have been as believable, but I really dislike characters who have an insatiable need to be popular.I'm tired of that, too (I would love to see more series devoted to teens who are either sure of themselves or who are popular, but they just work around it - In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing a popular shallow teen as the main lead; they, too, can have layers that make them human if they try), but I feel part of the reason lies in the idea that Danny at the very beginning of the series remains virtually unsure of himself. He's trying to find his path. He had yet to embrace his heroic identity soon and because of his simple-minded view, the easily accepted norm would be popularity because it's something as oppose to nothing - the quickest way to a surefire identity. Repeated offenses showed that simply isn't the case.

To be far, he gets character development and he no longer deals with this issue because his superheroism overtakes his shallow needs (the high school element gets less important as the series progresses), to the point where popularity is an annoyance to him.

[Ghostbuster Man]

I don't know which "good characters" you're referring to who were gotten rid of, but I will (partially agree with you that Argost and Van Rook do have more victories over the Saturdays. But in the case of Argost, the Kur Stone plot is a story arc, so I'm guessing that there will be suitable payoff in the future.

I was referring with Drew's brother.

[TMC1982]

-Oh Atlantis. You could have been so much better than you were but somehow screwed everything up in the second half. (Anyone remember the trailer to that movie? It was freakin' sick)

-Titan A.E.-The trailer, astounding. The music, incredible, the CGI, flawless. The characters and Plot....eh...not so much. Now don't take this to mean that I hated Titan A.E. because I didn't. I still watch it today. But I'm not gonna lie, the story is off. It really has some elements that I think could have been explained a little better like the Gaoul (sp?) and I always had a problem with the ending on how everything was solved just like that. But hey, I'm not an explaining person and this is sounding more like a fanboy's rant than a criticism so I'll move on

-Every animated movie the Nostalgia Critic has reviewed-I have the good fortune of having seen all the animated movies that he's ragged on and I do have to agree with a lot of his points. Even Space Jam. And I loved Space Jam! (Though that will change with Rock-A-Doodle and Titanic:Animated) If you need an explanation, go watch his videos. :p

-Godzilla: The Series/MIB: The Series-These two came out at around the same time (Of course I could be dead wrong) so I figured that I should share my criticisms about both. Now the idea of Godzilla the series as well as a Men In Black series drove me up the wall but the plots seemed, well, cheap. Granted this is a Saturday morning cartoon so I have to give some leverage but I expected Godzilla vs. Mothra every week and I got...Godzilla vs. Alien-of-the-week. Same for MIB though I at least felt like watching MIB every week. Anyway, I was dissapointed by Godzilla. MIB, not so much but they both could have been better.

-Ben 10: Alien Force-I'm just gonna say that the premise sounded interesting but the characters are boring as heck. I found myself dissapointed when I didn't feel like watching the next episode.

I thought that the "Godzilla" cartoon was supposedly, an improvement over the live-action movie.

[Bloody Marquis]

I thought that the "Godzilla" cartoon was supposedly, an improvement over the live-action movie.
No offense to fans of the cartoon or any fans of the 1998 movie, but that's not really saying much.

[Sabregroove]

-Titan A.E.-The trailer, astounding. The music, incredible, the CGI, flawless. The characters and Plot....eh...not so much. Now don't take this to mean that I hated Titan A.E. because I didn't. I still watch it today. But I'm not gonna lie, the story is off. It really has some elements that I think could have been explained a little better like the Gaoul (sp?) and I always had a problem with the ending on how everything was solved just like that. But hey, I'm not an explaining person and this is sounding more like a fanboy's rant than a criticism so I'll move on

-Godzilla: The Series/MIB: The Series-These two came out at around the same time (Of course I could be dead wrong) so I figured that I should share my criticisms about both. Now the idea of Godzilla the series as well as a Men In Black series drove me up the wall but the plots seemed, well, cheap. Granted this is a Saturday morning cartoon so I have to give some leverage but I expected Godzilla vs. Mothra every week and I got...Godzilla vs. Alien-of-the-week. Same for MIB though I at least felt like watching MIB every week. Anyway, I was dissapointed by Godzilla. MIB, not so much but they both could have been better.

-Ben 10: Alien Force-I'm just gonna say that the premise sounded interesting but the characters are boring as heck. I found myself dissapointed when I didn't feel like watching the next episode.

Titan A.E. really hurt. That movie was an exercise in wasted potential. Humans became a race without a home in a time where a homeworld was a status symbol. I remember being excited for that one, too, especially being a huge Don Bluth fan.

The Godzilla series really imploded, too. I recall saying, "This is gonna fix everything that was wrong about that movie!" only to have the cartoon end up being like watching the film all over again, but in 30-minute blocks over the course of a year. Well, maybe it wasn't that bad. But between the annoying human characters and the nameless non-canon monsters he fought, that one was pretty much doomed from the start.

Ben 10: Alien Force is a bitter pill because that show really deserves to be better. I think Glen Murakami is under incredible pressure from the network, because rumor has it he's not even happy with the show as it stands right now. Ben 10's biggest problem, in my opinion, is that nobody working on that show seems to be having any fun with it. The stories feel so labored - like they're such a burden to tell. You can feel it just watching them sometimes.

Here's another old one for you guys. There was a cartoon from the 80's called Dinosaucers that's right at the top of my list of wasted opportunities. It was about two warring armies of humanoid dinosaur... uh, warriors... from space. No, seriously. Anyway, the plant eaters battle the meat eaters using some fairly advanced future tech, so I know what you're thinking - Alien dinosaurs with sci-fi weapons bring their dino-war to Earth. Killer, huh?

No, not at all. The show devoted something like 80% of its screen time to the annoying-as-all-hell-and-damnation human characters, the evil Dinosaucers were dumber than dumb, and the good guys weren't much better. If this was any indication, I see why the dinosaurs became extinct. They were just too stupid to live. I suggest you guys try to watch an episode of that show, but only if you hate yourselves.:shrug:

______________________________________
"Hagen's gone; make him stop haunting me!"

[Scirel]

Most Anime and Animated Sitcoms- it seems these days that these kinds of shows can't get through an entire season with out reminding us that:

1. Everything we loved and grew up and believed in was a joke

2. Having normal concepts like eating meat and having a heterosexual relationship isn't worth the pain

3. Have the supporting cast or one character hog the spotlight by either torturing the main character or make him or her or them an unlikeable, narcissistic, uncaring cloth-eared nonce

And 4. That America is a cesspool of sex and violence and that our government needs to be taken down and replaced with some New World Order from some Third-World Country.

(of course, this can be said about any franchise from any media)



Wait..What?

I can see that for animated sitcoms, but anime? I`ve seen a lot of anime, and none even mention any of those issues, except 33 could be applicable to some.

Heck, even animated sitcoms say nothing is bad about being heterosexual.

[SpaceCowboy]

I was disappointed with Gurren Lagann. It didn't live up to the hype that surrounded it, even though it wasn't a bad show per say.

Code Geass had the potential to be a good show, but I found it at times to be pretty medicore and other times downright bad.

BoBoBoBoBoBoBo had potential as it looked like a distinctly bizarre and silly show like no other made before it, but became stale pretty quickly not too long after the first few episodes.

[Itchy]

I was once looking forward to Danny Phantom because it looked like Butch Hartman finally had a chance to write something besides humor, especially since Fairly Oddparents had moments of over the top action and some character development in the early seasons. However, the show felt very lacking in my opinion. Many of the characters had a boring 1 note personality, especially Sam who despite being a good person, bothered me so much with her agenda pushing ways. Danny himself did nothing to stand out from other shonen heroes at the time. The villains were also complete jokes. It's like the recycled some of Timmy's worst tormentors by just giving them a green coat of paint.

The show would've been better if the school aspect was either toned down or ignored completely. It may not have been as believable, but I really dislike characters who have an insatiable need to be popular. His rogue's gallery could also stand to be a little more intimidating, which means less one-liners per scene. It worked in Kim Possible, but not here. Finally, the fight scenes needed a lot of work.

There are also a bunch of minor quips that could've been fixed, but those are the main reason why I couldn't enjoy this show.

I agree, I could never get into that show. It felt like Ghostbusters for the Matrix generation or something.

[garfield15]

I agree, I could never get into that show. It felt like Ghostbusters for the Matrix generation or something.
I personally found Danny Phantom okay, but there's something wrong when you're seeing slow-motion action scenes in a cartoon almost every episode.

[Starbro]

I don't know which "good characters" you're referring to who were gotten rid of

I was referring with Drew's brother.

M'kay, those aren't characterS, that's just 1 character.


Anyway, you mean Doyle, and you're missing the point. One, they didn't get rid of him for good; they clearly left it open-ended for a return appearance later on, and two, the guy was never meant to become a full-time team member, at least not right now. It was made patently obvious that Doyle wasn't a team player, and he was getting under Doc and Drew's skin (going so far as expecting the Saturdays to pay him a salary for his services whlie he was staying under their roof rent-free) and undermining their authority too much for the 3 of them to peacefully co-exist, not to mention the affect he was having on Zak. It just wasn't a good fit for Doyle to stay on the team permanently.

In any event, I'd hardly call that sufficient reason for deeming the show a failure. You can't fault the producers for not making your favorite character a regular when that was never their intention to begin with.

[creativerealms]

Another show I really liked at first but ended up hating was the ninties Spider-man cartoon. Not for the stock footage, not for the annoying censoring but for that final season. I believe that the show should have ended with "The Wedding" forgotten the whole fifth season. No six pointless warriors no hydro-Mary Jane, and especially worst ending ever "I'm sorry Peter but the princess is in another castle, er I mean Mary jane is in another reality. That fifth season IMO drained all the fun out of that show, but when I look back on the show the whole thing was never great.

[Lavenderpaw]

I personally found Danny Phantom okay, but there's something wrong when you're seeing slow-motion action scenes in a cartoon almost every episode.

I think the action scenes were the best part. ^^

[Sparticus]

Most Anime and Animated Sitcoms- it seems these days that these kinds of shows can't get through an entire season with out reminding us that:

1. Everything we loved and grew up and believed in was a joke

2. Having normal concepts like eating meat and having a heterosexual relationship isn't worth the pain

3. Have the supporting cast or one character hog the spotlight by either torturing the main character or make him or her or them an unlikeable, narcissistic, uncaring cloth-eared nonce

And 4. That America is a cesspool of sex and violence and that our government needs to be taken down and replaced with some New World Order from some Third-World Country.

(of course, this can be said about any franchise from any media)


What HAVE you been watching? O.o

Anyway...

American Dragon Jake Long: I really liked the concept for this show, but, unfortunately, it ened up a fairly cookie-cutter teenaged superhero show. Sad, really, considering they had a whole plethora of interesting mythology they could have played around with.

[judyindisguise]

1. World of Quest. The character design, the animation and the voices - especially Prince Nestor's - were great. But the writing completely sunk it. I used to tune in every week hoping it would get better, but it didn't. Major bummer.

2. FOP. I've covered that on a number of occasions. Main problem: Cosmo. Need I say more? Didn't think so.

I can't really think of any others, because frankly, I've learned not to expect too much from new toons. Most of them try to imitate Spongebob or FOP, and unfortunately, they don't imitate the good parts. :sad:

[Mad Mod 49]

I can't really think of any others, because frankly, I've learned not to expect too much from new toons. Most of them try to imitate Spongebob or FOP, and unfortunately, they don't imitate the good parts.


Spongebob itself has gotten pretty lackluster too, as I believe you also pointed out on a few occassions. The writers seem to have run out of humor (also, Tom Kenny's Spongebob voice has gotten unbearably high. :ack: )

[mowub]

Futurama was awesome as a half-hour series, but it absolutely DOES NOT work in 90-minute DVD movie format. The writing and comedy suffered as a result. David X. Cohen wants to do a Futurama movie for theaters, but if the DVD movies are any indication, I think this is a terrible idea.

[Spideyzilla]

No offense to fans of the cartoon or any fans of the 1998 movie, but that's not really saying much.

No, but that series is generally well liked. Godzilla fans liked it.

[Elven Moon]

I agree about being disappointed with the straight-to-DVD Futurama movies. I had so many high hopes for the show's revival. The first was OK, I assumed they were a little rusty and could only get better. I was wrong.

[Itchy]

I agree about being disappointed with the straight-to-DVD Futurama movies. I had so many high hopes for the show's revival. The first was OK, I assumed they were a little rusty and could only get better. I was wrong.
As far as the sequels go I agree. I think the first film; Bender's Big Score was great. Beast and Game however were pretty disappointing.

[mowub]

Into the Wild Green Yonder currently has a 2-star rating on Amazon, with a single review that claims it is the worst of the four movies, and makes BBS "look like Blade Runner."

It's almost as if Matt Groening is turning into George Lucas.

[Radical Raven]

Well, if the situation involves a different medium being translated into an animated movie or a show, and I see the first medium before the animated one, then I am almost always dissapointed.This is, I think, one of the more common experiences. I'd have to say that, recently, The World of Quest, cut me pretty deep.

[Yash]

This applies to virtually every series that has lasted past three seasons.

(the key word is virtually)

[Radical Raven]

This applies to virtually every series that has lasted past three seasons.

(the key word is virtually)

(The thread is about dissapointments, not good shows that jumped the shark. The titles kinda misleading...)

[stephane dumas]

The Smurfs: When they decided to get some new characters Sasette, Smurflings, Grand'pa Smurf and then Savage Smurf, Grand'ma Smurf, you realized then the show begin to ran out of steam. Then the idea to let some Smurfs being time-travellers seems to be the final nail in the coffin.

[TheTerror]

In my opinion, a lot of cartoons that start out strong go bad over time, TMNTclassic is a pure case of this, as is X-Men with it's later episodes becoming different in look, sound and feel. It happens :sad:

[Sabregroove]

Let me try to head this off at the pass. The title of this thread IS misleading. Sorry about that. Is there a way to change the title without starting a whole new thread?

Anyway, it should have been titled WHEN CARTOONS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD GO BAD.

Please read the 1st post before posting your thoughts. This thread is about anytime you've ever been really amped for a new cartoon and how or why you were disappointed when that new cartoon failed to deliver or live up to the hype/your expectations. Also, please feel free to suggest what you think could have made those shows better.

Again, sorry for the mix-up. My first thread and all that.

______________________________________
"Hagen's gone; make him stop haunting me!"

[Jackson54]

The Simpsons is an excellent example of a great mark on media history turning rotten and sour. The first seasons shown the true spirit of the Simpsons, but due to the fact that it's the longest running TV show to this day, the Well of Plots and Storylines had run dry.

[cyde]

The Simpsons is an excellent example of a great mark on media history turning rotten and sour. The first seasons shown the true spirit of the Simpsons, but due to the fact that it's the longest running TV show to this day, the Well of Plots and Storylines had run dry."Simpsons did it!! Simpsons did it!!"

--General Disarray, The Simpsons Already Did It, South Park.

[strawberryjuice]

hahahaha this happened to me with "The Secret Saturdays"
I thought this was gonna be an awesome show. I had nothing to do that friday so I sat down ans watched and it just sucked a**. I pretty much never watched it again after that.

and for "Total Drama Island" (kind of) I did like the first season. I managed to see TDA and it was just a big let down. So I don't plan on watching that either when it comes to CN.

[Antiyonder]

hahahaha this happened to me with "The Secret Saturdays"
I thought this was gonna be an awesome show. I had nothing to do that friday so I sat down ans watched and it just sucked a**. I pretty much never watched it again after that.

and for "Total Drama Island" (kind of) I did like the first season. I managed to see TDA and it was just a big let down. So I don't plan on watching that either when it comes to CN.

What was wrong with them?

[Craig Crumpton]

Is there a way to change the title without starting a whole new thread?

Again, sorry for the mix-up. My first thread and all that.Consider it done. And welcome to Toon Zone, BTW.


I'm a little surprised to see MiB: The Series getting more than one negative comment, but it seems fans will always have divided opinions. I thought the writing and character development were a big improvement over the live-action films (especially the second film), and it was a quality animated production as well. The uber-cool title sequence was enough to get me hooked immediately.

Now for some of my contributions:

- Star Wars: The Clone Wars

I find it hard to believe that no one has mentioned this yet. But I never had high expectations of the series after learning that Genndy Tartakovsky wouldn't be involved and they were going 100% CGI over the stylized 2D designs from Genndy's vision.

I tuned in just *hoping* it would turn out to be a decent show.

But the new series tries to hard to be like the live-action films. I'm sure that's what they were going for, but the character animation and designs are so stiff and wooden-looking that it's distracting. And the dialog is generally cheesy too. I'll admit the action sequences, vehicles, and settings are visually impressive, but that's one of few positive things I can say about the series. If it weren't for the lifelong Star Wars fan in me, I wouldn't watch at all.

What would make it better? In a word: Genndy.

- Cool World

This live-action/animated film left me cold (no pun intended), the acting was "phoned in", the unfinished animation thrown in randomly was distracting, and the movie overall just seemed very poorly executed. It comes off as a knock-off Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

What would've made it better? Completed animation sequences, a better plot, and better actors.

- Atlantis: The Lost Empire

I pretty much agree with other opinions on this, but I still liked this movie. I had such high hopes for this when it was previewed at Comic-Con, especially with Mike Mignola's designs involved. I think they did a fair job establishing the characters, but you get the feeling they got so caught up in the visuals that they forgot the plot. In one scene, they're driving through a blizzard *UNDERGROUND* for crying out loud!

And I believe it would've made a great adventure TV series, especially considering the story arcs Greg Weisman had planned, but Disney nixed that as well. Instead, we got a rushed D2V that crammed the completed episodes into a movie format and changed plot details which gave it a forced ending.

What would've made it better? More thorough editing and closer attention to the story and pacing.

- Titan A.E.

I was thinking it had the potential to be a huge box office hit, but it just never found an audience which seems to be the fault of the marketing dept. If it were made today, it might have been a decent box office success as a live-action/CGI film...provided it were marketed more effectively.

And as garfield15 pointed out, it had a lot of great things going for it. But somewhere during production, they got a little lost and neglected the most important elements in storytelling: the story and the characters. I also didn't think very highly of most of the celeb performances.

What would've made it better? A solid storyline, better performances, more defined characters, and a better ending.

- Chicken Little

I went expecting something at least akin to a Pixar quality production, and while I thought it was mildly entertaining and a decent family-friendly film, for me it was largely disappointing. In short: it's a cliché-ridden, poorly-plotted, Pixar wannabe. Which is sad because it had such great potential to be a quality animated comedy.

What would've made it better? Letting Pixar produce it.

- Beast Machines

I echo Mr. Wednesday's comments on this. However, I liked the Tron-esque design of Cybertron, and the story arc was really intriging. From the first ep it was such a "WTF" moment in TF history that I had to keep tuning in to see how it all ended. Unfortunately, the ending was disappointing. However, it was a fun ride, and if you watch this series with the perception of it as an "Elseworlds" or "What If..." story, it is entertaining to watch.

What would've made it better? Gosh, where to start...

- No Nightscream -- the series already had a brooding emo character (Primal)
- No Botanica -- a transforming plant? Seriously? WTF? Worst. Transformer. Concept. Ever.
- A different ending
- A lighter tone -- it might have helped avoid alienating the target audience. And I still can't believe the show was marketed for kids.
- Nix the unnecessary spiritual overtones
- No drastic and unbelievable character changes
- Avoid changing the core element of "Transformers" with ridiculous mental morphing

- George of the Jungle

When this series was first announced, because it was a remake I was hoping it would recapture the design, zaniness, silliness, and comedic timing of the original Jay Ward production. Boy, was I disappointed. And while the new series does have its charms and comedic moments, I'm a little turned off by the flash animation. I also can't get over Magnolia's forced and stereotypical Southern accent. And it's not just a bad stereotype, it's out of place and distracting... especially since she's supposed to be a native to the jungle?

What would make it better? A more unique and simple 2D animated style, like CN's early originals... or better yet, like the original show. And get rid of Magnolia.

- Out of Jimmy's Head

I did think this was an interesting concept, but that's about it. Maybe if this show hadn't been created specifically to target kids, it might have been more entertaining. It was just too cheesy, goofy, and kid-friendly for my tastes, not to mention a blatant attempt to introduce live-action programming on CN.

What would've made it better? Not making it at all.

[Antiyonder]

Out of Jimmy's Head

I did think this was an interesting concept, but that's about it. Maybe if this show hadn't been created specifically to target kids, it might have been more entertaining. It was just too cheesy, goofy, and kid-friendly for my tastes, not to mention a blatant attempt to introduce live-action programming on CN.

Wouldn't say that it's bad because it was targeted towards kids, but because the writers had no ambition for the show among other things:
1. The selling point of the show was suppose to be the Apple Day Gang, and aside from ADG centric episodes, they barely appear. Which makes it clear that the writers wanted to do generic sitcom, but used the ADG so the show would be network appropriate.

2. Jimmy's alien sister: Either something should have been done with it or she should have been an Earth girl.

3. Jimmy's dad should have been competent. Two reasons for his personality being a problem:

-- Contributes to the dumb adult male sterotype.
-- It makes doing live action pointless if the character(s) going to behave like a cartoon. Mr. and Mrs. Tennyson from the Ben 10 cartoon behave more like real people than Mr. Robert.

[Blackstar]

Wouldn't say that it (Out of Jimmy's Head) was bad because it was targeted towards kids, but because the writers had no ambition for the show among other things:
1. The selling point of the show was suppose to be the Apple Day Gang, and aside from ADG centric episodes, they barely appear. Which makes it clear that the writers wanted to do generic sitcom, but used the ADG so the show would be network appropriate.

Agreed. The Appleday Toons and Jimmy's crazy family and friends were both (potentially) OK concepts, but they didn't deserve each other. It seemed obvious (to me, at least) that the Appleday Gang were only shoehorned into the series to somehow justify the presence of a live action kidcom airing on CARTOON Network. Perhaps the Appleday Gang should have had their own show or a set of recurring segments running on CN, while Turner should have made the Jimmy kidcom stuff it's own seperate show airng (possibly) on TBS, since WB is too cheap to create a seperate kids' channel.


2. Jimmy's alien sister: Either something should have been done with it or she should have been an Earth girl.Agree with this also. If Yancy was going to be an alien, the writers should have taken advantage of that fact more often. I'm not suggesting that they turn the show into Star Trek or anything like that, but what was the point of making her an alien if she was hardly ever going to do alien stuff? Also, if Yancy was essentially the "Ugly Sister" character of the show,the she should have been a more constant source of annoyance to Jimmy. The 2 of them barely interacted with each other in some episodes. Yancy had the potential to be another Candace (from Phineas & Ferb). Again, good idea, poor execution.


3. Jimmy's dad should have been competent. Two reasons for his personality being a problem:

-- Contributes to the dumb adult male stereotype.
-- It makes doing live action pointless if the character(s) going to behave like a cartoon. Mr. and Mrs. Tennyson from the Ben 10 cartoon behave more like real people than Mr. Roberts.I'm actually of 2 minds on this one. I agree that there wasn't a whole lot of point in the series being live action if most of the characters were going to behave like cartoons, but I didn't have much of an issue with that, nor strangely enough, did I really have a problem with Jimmy's dad being essentially a human version of Goofy. I'm a Goofy fan, so that didn't really bother me. The main thing that I disliked about Mr. Roberts was that he was overdone. He wore far too many hats on the show. Add to that, I think that Jimmy's mom should have been around full time to counterbalance her husband's personality. After all, you can't have The Odd Couple with only Ocscar; without the contrast, it's isn't very funny. Mrs. Roberts was a good character with potential, and my favorite episodes were the ones in which both parents appeared.

Here's what I think should have been done with OOJH:

1. The school should not have been the shows' main setting. The bits at Jimmy's school should have been greatly downplayed, if not removed entirely.

2. Have Mrs. Roberts as a regular, full time cast member. I didn't like the idea of the full time dad and the occasionally seen mom when the series started and I still don't like it now. Jimmy's mom could have been a working "super mom" and still have been seen regularly. Make her more like the working mom on Johnny Test.

3. Take Mr. Roberts out of Jimmy's school. Mr.Roberts didn't need to be both the Dumb Dad and the clueless guidance counselor. That was too much and it risked making the character overused and unbearable. If the show really had to have a dopey adult authority figure at Jimmy's school, I think an entirely new character should have been created for that role.

4. Make better use of Yancy. Both as an alien and as an annoying sister.

5. Keep the toons and the humans universes separate. The 2 sensibilities just didn't mesh. If the live action universe was to be a cartoon, then the toons served no purpose, as their cheif distinction offered little to no contrast with the rest of Jimmy's world.

[hobbyfan]

Ok, here's a few. Debate if ya like:

Turbo Teen (1985): If I didn't see any ads before the series started, I figured it might be some kind of left-handed parody of "Knight Rider". In truth, it was, but not the way I envisioned it. The titular hero turns into a car?! WTF? No wonder this show lasted just one season.

Godzilla: The Series (1998): If Sony & Toho actually came to some sort of an agreement, then the 'Zilla in this series would've been the vertical, iconic one we all know and love. Instead, as with the movie that came out that same summer, 'Zilla was reimagined as a crawling, horizontal-only monster. The movie sucked, especially when P. Dopey blasphemed a Led Zeppelin classic on the soundtrack, and the series was even worse. 20 years after Hanna-Barbera made 'Zilla a superhero, Sony went in the other direction. Watch. The next Godzilla toon will be an anime approved by Toho and imported by 4Kwacks.

Richie Rich (198?): Speaking of Hanna-Barbera, their treatment of Richie wasn't that much better than that of Harvey stablemate Casper a few short years earlier. Irona, the Rich family's robot maid, was turned into a shape-shifting super-bodyguard (Gee, I wonder why? Richie, IIRC, had Super Friends for a lead-in), and every plot seemed to be the same, with some villain trying to steal the Rich fortune. When another studio revived Richie several years later, they stayed truer to the comics.

I'll think of a few others when I can.

[Lavenderpaw]

What HAVE you been watching? O.o

Anyway...

American Dragon Jake Long: I really liked the concept for this show, but, unfortunately, it ened up a fairly cookie-cutter teenaged superhero show. Sad, really, considering they had a whole plethora of interesting mythology they could have played around with.


I must disagree. Cookie-cutter teenaged superhero doesn't really define Jake at all. He's a Chinese-American hip-hop talking dragon. It's sort of unique in my books, and he really does grow up in the second season. Plus let us not forget the sacred Jake/Rose relationship. lol.

Darkaviator (sp?) back me up here. :confused:

Bit of trivia: I put 'scared' instead of sacred. ^^

[FriendlyMushroom]

Atlantis: Like garfield said, frickin' awesome trailer. Movie? Not so much.

Ben 10 Alien Force: I was expecting a more mature, plot-focused show than the first series. What I saw was more of the same.

One Piece: 4Kids dub. 'Nuff said.

[Sabregroove]

Turbo Teen (1985): If I didn't see any ads before the series started, I figured it might be some kind of left-handed parody of "Knight Rider". In truth, it was, but not the way I envisioned it. The titular hero turns into a car?! WTF? No wonder this show lasted just one season.

Godzilla: The Series (1998): If Sony & Toho actually came to some sort of an agreement, then the 'Zilla in this series would've been the vertical, iconic one we all know and love. Instead, as with the movie that came out that same summer, 'Zilla was reimagined as a crawling, horizontal-only monster. The movie sucked, especially when P. Dopey blasphemed a Led Zeppelin classic on the soundtrack, and the series was even worse. 20 years after Hanna-Barbera made 'Zilla a superhero, Sony went in the other direction. Watch. The next Godzilla toon will be an anime approved by Toho and imported by 4Kwacks.

Wow! Turbo Teen! God, help us! I remember that cartoon, and not fondly either. Wasn't it like Ranma 1/2, in that he turned into a car whenever he got wet or something like that? Anyway, I always felt sorry for that main character, whose name escapes me, because he always had to lug his loser friends around in every episode, and, as if that wasn't enough, he had to solve crimes too like some sorta animated Angela Lansbury... that, uh, turns into a car, I guess.

It always looked like it hurt like hell too whenever he transformed into his car mode. What a nightmare! I wouldn't wish that super power on my worst enemy!

And as far as Godzilla goes, I want somebody to take another crack at a Godzilla animated series, and this time they need to take a page from the Godzilla: Final Wars playbook, which is to put every Toho monster you can cram into one series, appoint a ragtag team of human monster-hunting badasses to do most of the grunt work, and then bring out Godzilla to lay the ever-loving atomic smack down only when the poop REALLY hits the fan. Now THAT's a cartoon!

Who's with me?! Godzilla 3:16!

Oh, and there had BETTER be a special circle of hell waiting for P. Diddy and anybody ELSE who ever dared to demolish a great Zeppelin song. I mean, of all the - "Kashmir"? Come on! COME ON! "I said good DAY, sir!"

[TKnHappyNess]

Do movies count? If so, then Disney's Atlantis is by far the biggest let down in my life.

It wasn't even Disney's to begin with. Everything in it was stolen from somewhere else.

[Zorak Masaki]

Ok, here's a few. Debate if ya like:
imported by 4Kwacks.

Richie Rich (198?): Speaking of Hanna-Barbera, their treatment of Richie wasn't that much better than that of Harvey stablemate Casper a few short years earlier. Irona, the Rich family's robot maid, was turned into a shape-shifting super-bodyguard (Gee, I wonder why? Richie, IIRC, had Super Friends for a lead-in), and every plot seemed to be the same, with some villain trying to steal the Rich fortune. When another studio revived Richie several years later, they stayed truer to the comics.

I'll think of a few others when I can.

To be fair, most of the RR comics ive read had the same problem, either there was some villain trying to steal the rich fortune (Including a villain who actually HAD A LIGHTBULB FOR A HEAD), or short gags where richie shows off all the stuff he has (of course, theres not much you can really do with rich people unless your name is carl barks).

[FGfan]

Not sure if this counts, but Pokemon. It was GODLY up until season 2 ended (even if Tracy was really, really creepy), but Johto League should be written down as a EUPHEMISM for "horrible filler material."

Atlantis: The Lost Empire. I really like that movie, but let's face it, that was a bad deus ex machina ending.

While we're on the topic of deus ex machina, anyone remember a certain episode by the name of "Destroyer."

[garfield15]

One Piece: 4Kids dub. 'Nuff said.
Please tell me you're just talking about the 4Kids dub and not the show as a whole. (I respect your opinion either way though)




I'm a little surprised to see MiB: The Series getting more than one negative comment, but it seems fans will always have divided opinions. I thought the writing and character development were a big improvement over the live-action films (especially the second film), and it was a quality animated production as well. The uber-cool title sequence was enough to get me hooked immediately.
- Chicken Little

I went expecting something at least akin to a Pixar quality production, and while I thought it was mildly entertaining and a decent family-friendly film, for me it was largely disappointing. In short: it's a cliché-ridden, poorly-plotted, Pixar wannabe. Which is sad because it had such great potential to be a quality animated comedy.

What would've made it better? Letting Pixar produce it.

This is funny because I loved Chicken Little (Though I agree Pixar could have made it even better)

Meh, I don't know what it is about MiB the series. Maybe it was that it was kind of....oh boy how do I say this....childish? Okay I know, I know, I know what time it came on but I mean, I guess I was expecting something like B:TAS but with aliens and ended up getting Godzilla with even more annoying aliens. I don't know. Maybe it's just my own thing.

[Antiyonder]

I guess I was expecting something like B:TAS but with aliens and ended up getting Godzilla with even more annoying aliens. I don't know. Maybe it's just my own thing.

Not every show needs to be like BTAS to be good.

[Crash]

This is probably going to get some rocks thrown at me but... Megas XLR. (Dodges rocks from angry fans around TZ). Yeah I know the show's fairly popular around here with some people, but I don't really like it. The premise of it seemed really cool AND Clever: Let's have an american made giant mecha show. And instead of an angst ridden teenager as a top notch pilot it's a fat new Jersey grease monkey into video games, TV, and of course eating everything. With excellent looking animation and top notch voice acting this show seemed like it would be really good. And the pilot Lowbrow 6 minute short showed that as well. Unfourantley for the most part this cartoon blew due to the writing. There were some clever moments but the majority of the episodes had a bunch of lame too long to really laugh at jokes and not really too interesting plots. Also if there was one show this decade that over did the "at least things can't get any worse" line it'd be Megas. I'm not saying it's the worst show ever but it's defintley one that "went bad" for me more then it should of.

I'm not gunna throw rocks at you. I enjoyed the show, but it never reached the level of being awesome. Personally, I blame Coop. Or ratherm how how Coop was written. The idea of some 'Jersey grease monkey' having a giant robot was cool, but Coop was an idiot. He acted profoundly idiotic at every opportunity. It was like he made a conscious choice to be a moron. To regress into a perpetual state of adolescant idiocy. (I can't believe I found a place to use that quote!) If half the show's conflicts had been started or exaserbated by Coop himself...It really could have been great.

Titan AE--I loved it, but if they had another 10-20 minutes of runtime to straighten out some plot points....It could have been great.

Atlantis--Should have been taken back to the drawing board. Decide a theme and stick to it. There should not have been the-hero-is-too-dumb-to-drive-stick joke 45 seconds after the silent mouning of the death of hundreds.

Black Cauldron--I just want an awesome animated high-fantasy movie. I wish this had been it, but it wasn't...

I also had high hopes for W.I.T.C.H. but it never really found its groove. I dunno, maybe the concept was just too Sailor Moon-ish to begin with...

[tucsoncoyote]

Well if we're talking movies then really I would have to go with Disney's Treasure Planet. Let's face facts while the plot was based off a Steveson classic novel (Treasure Island) Putting the whole plot into a space farce was in fact sheer lunacy on the part of Disney itself.

I mean if Atlantis:The Lost Empire was bad, then Treasure Planet was by far a lot worse.

Now as for TV shows, I would have to say that while Thundercats were good, it was Silverhawks that really broke it for me. I mean who in their right mind thought this one up? After all perhaps the most annoying character in the bunch was in fact, The Copper Kid. with his annoying whistle like speaking. I mean even the Villains were laughable (Come on a Punk Rocker by the name of "Melodia?" As a villain.. Highly Laughable..

But then if Silverhawks were bad, then Jem: Truly Outrageous took the idea even further into the sublime. I mean come on, this was nothing more than maybe at best a show dealing with a girl who looked like Barbie had cotton candy stuck on her body, as well as all the corny band villains that came with the show (The Misfits? Aptly put.)

But believe me, TV does have some good shows, but when they go bad.. They go horribly wrong.

:coyote:

[Sonic_Eclipse]

Spider-Man: Unlimited

I still think Spider-Man: Unlimited, had the potential to be a good show. I grew up on the 90s Spider-Man, so when I saw the first few commercials for Unlimited I thought it was weird, but was excited for it too, even liked the new costume. I believe had the series taken place on Earth instead of Counter Earth it would've lasted longer than it did, only the first two episodes should've taken place on Counter Earth, they should have Spider-Man and John come back after that. After the first two episodes, it all went downhill. It was just weird seeing Spider-Man surrounded by beast people (or beastials), and teaming up or fighting against knock-off Counter Earth versions of Spidey's own rouges gallery. Thats probably why it never caught on. It really is to bad, because the new costume was actually kind of cool, not better than his classic red and blue threads, but it was still cool.

[Debbie]

Personally, I was disappointed with DuckTales when it first came out. I had been reading Gladstone's reprints of the old Carl Barks stories, and I thought that an Uncle Scrooge TV series would have stuck closer to Barks' work. Instead, we found Donald limited to cameos, and replaced by Launchpad, forgettable new characters that Barks never would have created, and the "real world" feel of having the Ducks go to real places was gone as well. I prefer Barks' artwork as well. It wasn't all bad, but even now I prefer re-reading a Carl Barks or Don Rosa Scrooge story over watching an episode of DuckTales.

[Sparticus]

I must disagree. Cookie-cutter teenaged superhero doesn't really define Jake at all. He's a Chinese-American hip-hop talking dragon. It's sort of unique in my books, and he really does grow up in the second season. Plus let us not forget the sacred Jake/Rose relationship. lol.

Darkaviator (sp?) back me up here. :confused:

Bit of trivia: I put 'scared' instead of sacred. ^^

How can something be "sort of unique"? :p It either is or it isn't in my book. Being "sort of" unique is what ultimately killed it for me. I had the POTENTAL to be unique - maybe a more kid friendly version of Gargoyles (most of which flew over the heads of most of my peers back in the day), but... they didn't stray from the usual Disney tween cartoon formula.

[J. B. Warner]

Not sure if this counts, but Pokemon. It was GODLY up until season 2 ended (even if Tracy was really, really creepy), but Johto League should be written down as a EUPHEMISM for "horrible filler material."

No offense, but I'm really getting tired of this "Kanto was flawless, everything else was garbage" mentality among "Pokémon" fans. Yes, Johto had some bad fillers, but Hoenn and Sinnoh have more than made up for it.

[J!!!]

What Ever Happened to Robot Jones , It had an interesting premise , fluid animation , and an awesome cast of 80's like characters. You look at that and you say "Wow that show sounds awesome." but your wrong this show was bad. The humor in this show was super dead beat and the main character, Robot Jones was abused to no end by the bad guys. I also didn't like how they had a character with a robotic leg that's not funny at all. And the worst thing about the show was that new episodes didn't even come on till Fridays at 10:00PM I was so tired by that time that I couldn't even really pay attention to what was happening in the show.

[FGfan]

No offense, but I'm really getting tired of this "Kanto was flawless, everything else was garbage" mentality among "Pokémon" fans. Yes, Johto had some bad fillers, but Hoenn and Sinnoh have more than made up for it.

Hey, where ever did I say Kanto was, to use your word, "flawless?" Nor did I say "everything else was garbage," that's a poorly written generalization.

That's not to say Kanto was flawless, by any means; on the contrary, of course it had its share of bad episodes.

But, since the title of this thread isn't "when did Pokemon jump," let's get off that topic.

Meanwhile, another example I can think of is Family Guy, when they decided to make Herbert a frequent character. >.<

[Mek]

Captain N: The Game Master
- The concept sounds good in theory, but it just didn't work. Then again, if it was made today, just ditch the whole Kevin Keen and Princess Lana part and call it 'Super Smash Bros: The Cartoon'. Hey, it'd be better than Brawl...

Super Mario (ALL the cartoons)
- Okay, so I can't fault this too much since they didn't have all the new characters and the paper-thin continuity that we have now in the Mario games. SMBSS was good for its time, but the SMB3 cartoon just totally fell flat with crummy animation, horrible and cliched stories and don't even get me started on Super Mario World. (Rick Wheeler and Kevin Keen got NOTHING on Oogtar) Just don't.

F-Zero: GP Legend
- We could have had a cool, campy series with an ensemble cast every episode (some focusing on Falcon, Goroh, Super Arrow or Zoda) and kick-ass racing, but instead we got black-and-white characters, a Marty Stu main character who's story vaguely resembles the plot to the movie 'Demolition Man', virtually no racing and I just... lame. I have a love/hate relationship with this series, but I think if Nintendo ever wants to try another F-Zero cartoon again, let the Westerners handle it.

Avengers: United They Stand
- An Avengers cartoon without Iron Man, Cap or Thor? Well hey, at least we've got another Avengers cartoon coming in 2011...

[blazecat]

Kung Fu Panda didn't quite live up to my expectations. In my opinion, it wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either. It had it's moments, but it seems to lack that certain magic that Wall-E had. One thing I will admit though, Kung Fu Panda had heart.

When I first saw the commercials for Camp Lazlo, I was expecting it to be just like Rocko's Modern Life. Let's just say that I was um....dissapointed.

[Antiyonder]

How can something be "sort of unique"? :p

Can't speak much for American Dragon, but with all of the comic book/movie/tv show/video game plots used, to come up with a purely original idea (with no cliche insight) is becoming somewhat of an impossibility. Even going against a cliche has become a cliche. To be sort of unique is to take a cliched setting and add bits of originality to the table.

As Told By Ginger for instance has the popular girl befriending the main character as opposed to antagonizing her.


Lavenderpaw: As for American Dragon, to be honest it's a decent cartoon, but the first seasons quality keeps it from being one of the best cartoons. The Jake and Rose relationship as you mentioned was the high point, but for a show to be the best, episodes that don't contribute to the plot needs to be just as enjoyable. Season 2 succeeded in making episodes outside of the Huntsclan, Jake & Rose and Dark Dragon storyline enjoyable. Season 1 failed to do so. In S1 those aforementioned subplots were the only thing the show had going for it.

[Mad Mod 49]

Yes, Johto had some bad fillers, but Hoenn and Sinnoh have more than made up for it.


Made up for it with what exactly? Even MORE bad fillers? :p

It has to be said: Pokemon as a show become completely formulamatic during Johto and, sorry, it has never recovered from it.

Kanto wasn't flawless, and everything else isn't complete garbage...but it comes pretty darn close to being that way, IMHO.

[hobbyfan]

Here's some more:

Spider-Man Unlimited & Avengers: United They Stand (1999): Fox, or more specifically, Saban, fumbled big time with these two. With the Avengers, Saban decided that certain of the characters (Ant-Man & Wasp stand out) should have full-face helmets, a la the Power Rangers & Beetleborgs. That was the kiss of death all by itself. Spider-Man Unlimited sent Spidey to Counter-Earth, but the complex plot was lost on fans expecting a more natural follow-up to the last series. Fox suits, desperate to counter-program the hottest show of the period (Pokemon), pulled SMU after 3 weeks. Avengers was delayed, then pulled, all within about a month.

Wishkid, Pro-Stars, & Hammerman (1991): DIC's unholy trinity of celebrity-driven toons. Two of the three aired on NBC, back-to-back, even. Hammerman was bounced around by ABC, which knew it had a turkey on its hands. Of the three, only one had the actual star-inspiration voicing his animated likeness, and that was Macaulay Culkin (Wishkid). MC Hammer did some wraparounds and the theme song for Hammerman, but the concept just died because the titular hero's powers come from a pair of shoes. Oh, stop the pain! Pro-Stars gave us Bo Jackson, Wayne Gretzky, & Michael Jordan, but none of these star athletes actually contributed to the show, aside from the clips used in the show open. I get the concept, but the execution was about as bad as, say, the weak sisters of the NBA and/or NHL.;) :p :D

Skeleton Warriors & WildC.A.T.S. (1994): These two fell victim to what I call "late-start syndrome". Delayed two weeks for reasons known only to the network (CBS), despite much hype. Shoot, the "Adventures" comic Image put out for the WildC.A.T.S. series came out before the TV show launched. As memory serves, these two were to debut the week after the US Open Tennis tournament, as per CBS tradition. Didn't happen. I watched the first two WildC.A.T.S. eps, and that was it. Had it started on time (Nelvana has a better track record, doesn't it?), maybe it gets renewed. Same with the Skeleton Warriors (though I didn't follow the show).

[J. B. Warner]

Hey, where ever did I say Kanto was, to use your word, "flawless?" Nor did I say "everything else was garbage," that's a poorly written generalization.

That's not to say Kanto was flawless, by any means; on the contrary, of course it had its share of bad episodes.

Well, you did say "godly". But I guess I did jump the gun a bit, sorry - I just hear that argument everywhere, it seems.


Made up for it with what exactly? Even MORE bad fillers? :p

It has to be said: Pokemon as a show become completely formulamatic during Johto and, sorry, it has never recovered from it.

Yeah, it's formulaic and simple, and it always will be, but at least now they're putting in the effort to make it good. I can't think of a single filler episode from the Sinnoh region that didn't feature at least some solid humor or character development, and that's a vast improvement over the stodgy "random trainer with Pokémon X has a problem" fillers we used to get. They're also introducing supporting characters who are more interesting than the ones that preceeded them (i.e. Paul, Hunter J, Conway, Jun, etc.), so their episodes are something to look forward to. They're doing everything they can to make the fillers feel less like fillers, and they're pulling it off quite well, I'd say.

[Sparticus]

Can't speak much for American Dragon, but with all of the comic book/movie/tv show/video game plots used, to come up with a purely original idea (with no cliche insight) is becoming somewhat of an impossibility. Even going against a cliche has become a cliche. To be sort of unique is to take a cliched setting and add bits of originality to the table.

As Told By Ginger for instance has the popular girl befriending the main character as opposed to antagonizing her.

Oh, I know there's really nothing new. It's just the premise of Jake Long in particular seemed to have a lot of potential to break the tween mold and morph into something with a more universal appeal.

Conversely, I really enjoyed Danny Phantom largely because it was cookie cutter, and it KNEW it was cookie cutter - sometimes that makes all the difference. X)

[Antiyonder]

I can certainly see why Kanto is considered the best:

A: Johto upped the repetitiveness by making every one episode trainer an insecure individual who needed Ash and companies help to improve. Kanto on the other had trainers who gave Ash a run for his money and had fillers which weren't interchangable (such as two would be Gym Leaders starting a war in the city and an alternative to getting the 8 badges)

B: By the time Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh had come along, the formula has been done plenty of times. When Kanto was the current season, it was the first of it's kind.

[FGfan]

Well, since the title of this thread isn't "When Pokemon jumped," and since I don't want this to turn into a huge argument (even if I respectfully agree with Mad Mod 49)...let's change the subject.

A cartoon I thought could have been good, but went bad: the JLU finale. If that's not a bad example of deus ex machina, I don't know what is.

[Sabregroove]

- Star Wars: The Clone Wars

I find it hard to believe that no one has mentioned this yet. But I never had high expectations of the series after learning that Genndy Tartakovsky wouldn't be involved and they were going 100% CGI over the stylized 2D designs from Genndy's vision.

I tuned in just *hoping* it would turn out to be a decent show.

But the new series tries to hard to be like the live-action films. I'm sure that's what they were going for, but the character animation and designs are so stiff and wooden-looking that it's distracting. And the dialog is generally cheesy too. I'll admit the action sequences, vehicles, and settings are visually impressive, but that's one of few positive things I can say about the series. If it weren't for the lifelong Star Wars fan in me, I wouldn't watch at all.

What would make it better? In a word: Genndy.

I'm glad SOMEBODY said it. Nobody wants to get flamed, least of all me, but I think it's time we all faced it: Star Wars is not the infallible super commodity it used to be. It is quite flawed, and getting MORE flawed with each passing episode of this show. And here's where my problem lies:

- There's no excuse for how substandard the animation in this show is, and I don't believe for one second it was due to anything even CLOSE to a tight deadline or a constrained budget. George Lucas could have spent as long and as much on this thing as he wanted and there's not a person on this planet who would've dared tell him otherwise. Every episode of this cartoon should look as good as Final Fantasy: Advent Children. It just doesn't.

- Why are we here AGAIN? Okay, there's 10 years between Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, 3 years between Clones and Revenge of the Sith, somewhere between 15 and 19 YEARS between Sith and A New Hope (the lamest title EVER, by the way!). That represents the single biggest gap in the Star Wars continuity.

Considering that we've already seen clones vs. droids in Attack of the Clones, clones vs. droids in Revenge of the Sith, and clones vs. droids in Genndy Tartakovsky's frankly superior 2D-animated Clone Wars micro-series, you honestly mean to tell me you wanna do ANOTHER show about - you guessed it - FREAKIN' CLONES VS. FREAKIN' DROIDS? And, I'm sorry, what's that? You want it to be 100 EPISODES LONG?! Are you out of your damn mind?

See, here's where this stops working. Even after 100 episodes of this cartoon, the only thing I can POSSIBLY hope for are the tragic and gruesome deaths of Asajj Ventress and (please please please) Ahsoka Tano. I don't think she's cute. I don't think she's funny. I don't think she's necessary. What I DO think is that she's annoying as hell in the summertime, has all the earmarks of a Mary Sue in the making, and is in serious need of a lightsaber to the Solar Plexus. And why do I say that?

It's because I KNOW what happens to Anakin. I KNOW what happens to Obi-Wan. I KNOW what happens to Dooku. Hell, I even KNOW what happens to Jar Jar! There is no DRAMA in this series. It's really hard to get excited if I know EVERYBODY'S GOING TO BE FINE!

My suggestion: Why not make a cartoon called Star Wars: Rise of the Rebellion that takes place in the whopping and unscripted 20 YEARS between Sith and New Hope?

That would have been awesome! Darth Vader and a newly formed Empire tightening the noose throughout the galaxy, Ben Kenobi and the few remaining Jedi that survived Sith scattered to the ends of the universe, fighting tooth and nail to hold their own against a foe that is systematically and methodically hunting them into extinction, the Force nearly being outlawed as a religion, witch hunts to have any Force users located and arrested. Believe me when I say that the REAL adventure series is HERE, not in the 3 years of clones vs. droids skirmishes we've seen too many times already.

This could have been like WORLD WAR TWO IN SPACE! It could have been as mature as Exo-Squad and with all the subtle political maneuvering of Gundam Wing. In my opinion, Lucas missed his shot to tell the one story the fans have wanted most since 1977, which is not to say that after Clone Wars is done, he won't make a series like this. Maybe he will, and maybe Clone Wars will get really good in the next few weeks. I'm just not holding my breath.

[DarthGonzo]

^^Thank You

What I'd like to know is why Lucas thinks we need to see the further adventures of characters we were all sick of years ago? This prequel stuff should have ended when Episode 3 came out. This Clone Wars cartoon just treads ground we've seen many times before. I like Star Wars and all but I just don't see the appeal of this.

[HellCat]

Gundam SEED Destiny and Code Geass R2. Both are sequel series to two of Sunrise's most popular shows this decade. However, when this studio hits on a success that means the execs from Sunrise/Bandai get involved and start exerting their power to insist on useless, out of place elements to try and draw in new demographics or sell products. Most commonly this means awkward fanservice, half assed forced 'romance', cheap melodrama cliffhangers and biased to audience favoured characters. Both of these shows really suffered from this as their stories need heavy shades of grey to work- Destiny starts out as a story about the blood on the hands of the previous cast and the mess they left behind. Geass R2 is similar, with the character of Lelouch going to even darker depths in his quest to try and change the world. All the exec forced elements just destory this. We get angry new protagonists that never grow out of it or after we've just witnessed our lead pull off a bloody massacre we then have to watch him goof around with the school council.

Please, Sunrise/Bandai. Just learn to back off and let the people you've hired tell a story. You'd get your much loved money too if you gave them room to craft something really memorable.

[Mek]

The Expanded Universe pretty much has the post-Sith/pre-Hope ground covered.

Just sayin'.

[DarthGonzo]

The Expanded Universe pretty much has the post-Sith/pre-Hope ground covered.

Just sayin'.

True, but lots of people don't even read any of that stuff. That time period may have been covered in the books but it's never been touched on film in any way. And I think it's time that it was. The EU stuff isn't canon, right?

[Radical Raven]

^^Thank You

What I'd like to know is why Lucas thinks we need to see the further adventures of characters we were all sick of years ago? This prequel stuff should have ended when Episode 3 came out. This Clone Wars cartoon just treads ground we've seen many times before. I like Star Wars and all but I just don't see the appeal of this.

10 pts. As a semi-official Star Wars fanboy (don't ask), I want to know why we can't just have an animated adaption of "Heir to the Empire", or even that crappy children books series. I want more Han Solo.

[Sparticus]

True, but lots of people don't even read any of that stuff. That time period may have been covered in the books but it's never been touched on film in any way. And I think it's time that it was. The EU stuff isn't canon, right?

Some is, some isn't. You'd have to check the database for specifics. :P

Second on all of the Star Wars stuff. Egad the Thrawn Trilogy would make a KICKASS series. But noooo, we get more clone wars. >.<

[FriendlyMushroom]

Please tell me you're just talking about the 4Kids dub and not the show as a whole. (I respect your opinion either way though)

Don't worry, I just mean the 4Kids dub. Hence me saying 4Kids dub in my first post.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say "Teen Titans". Now, there certainly were good parts to it, and I know a lot of people liked it, but I think it could have been better. Some stories which look really good on paper- the Terra and Trigon arcs- weren't executed as well as they could have been.

[Zorak Masaki]

Some is, some isn't. You'd have to check the database for specifics. :P

Second on all of the Star Wars stuff. Egad the Thrawn Trilogy would make a KICKASS series. But noooo, we get more clone wars. >.<

Heck, i wouldnt mind seeing the comics (either the marvel or dark horse series) adapted.

[garfield15]

I wonder if the Nostalgia Critic should do a review of DiC and some of their really cheap animated shows that we didn't realize were stupid until we grew up.

[Rolling Cloud]

A cartoon I thought could have been good, but went bad: the JLU finale. If that's not a bad example of deus ex machina, I don't know what is.

No offense but, could you please elaborate on it being DEM? o_O Unless I'm missing something, I can't see any part fitting in that slot.

[FGfan]

No offense but, could you please elaborate on it being DEM? o_O Unless I'm missing something, I can't see any part fitting in that slot.

Pulling the element out of a hat about Lex Luthor knowing the key to defeating Darkseid's legion, and efffectively making HIM the real hero.

[Zorak Masaki]

I wonder if the Nostalgia Critic should do a review of DiC and some of their really cheap animated shows that we didn't realize were stupid until we grew up.

He alreasy did review Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, Captain Planet, and Super Mario Bros. Super Show (as well as giving positive reviews to Real Ghostbusters and Sonic SatAM).

[Sam Hill]

Agree withe everyone else about the Clone Wars. The concept of this series does not appeal to me at all.

[cyde]

Ditto for DIC's The Attack Of The Killer Tomatos.

[Jordacar]

C.O.P.S.

I don't know if anyone remembers this show. Late-80's, Saturday morning sci-fi, action-figure tie-in show, etc.

It had some cool ideas (the police are the superheroes!), but the biggest handicap was the fact that it was a Saturday morning 'toon, and it had no interest (or even ability really) to be a cop show or anything resembling a cool police procedural, and instead floundered as a watered-down GIJoe knockoff.

[kaseykockroach]

Danny Phantom comes to mind. Concept was pretty cool, except it was ruined right from the beginning (it started off as an obnoxious children's comedy, then started to actually try and take itself seriously, especially with that Danny/Sam angle).
Hartman's other show as well, FOP, has a great, versatile concept. A boy with fairies who can grant him any wish? That has a TON of potential for crazy storylines. Instead, we get grating voice acting, characters constantly screaming nonsense (because screaming the punchline makes it funny), as well as this constantly repeated formula.
Timmy's life sucks in this aspect (he's not wanted enough, he has to deal with a spoiled dog). "I wish my life were this way!". Then, by the end of the episode "I've learned my lesson! Unwish the wish!". Usually, there's some conflict to where the fairies either lose their wands, can't unwish the wish because it's against De Rules, etc, to keep the episode going longer.

[Plague Rat]

Danny Phantom comes to mind. Concept was pretty cool, except it was ruined right from the beginning (it started off as an obnoxious children's comedy, then started to actually try and take itself seriously, especially with that Danny/Sam angle).
Hartman's other show as well, FOP, has a great, versatile concept. A boy with fairies who can grant him any wish? That has a TON of potential for crazy storylines. Instead, we get grating voice acting, characters constantly screaming nonsense (because screaming the punchline makes it funny), as well as this constantly repeated formula.
Timmy's life sucks in this aspect (he's not wanted enough, he has to deal with a spoiled dog). "I wish my life were this way!". Then, by the end of the episode "I've learned my lesson! Unwish the wish!". Usually, there's some conflict to where the fairies either lose their wands, can't unwish the wish because it's against De Rules, etc, to keep the episode going longer.
Agreed full-heartedly.

[podznvines]

Da Boom Crew: The idea of kids getting sucked into a world like their video game and going on heroic/crazy adventures sounded like a good idea. What happened? It was weighed down with irritating hip-hop slang, the characters were forgettable (especially the kids), and the plot just dragged.

The Proud Family: I liked this show when it first came out, but Oscar was more of a punching bag, and Penny became more of a whiner.

[Light Lucario]

The Proud Family: I liked this show when it first came out, but Oscar was more of a punching bag, and Penny became more of a whiner.

I definitely agree with that. It had some good episodes here and there and the idea was nice, but Oscar became too much of a punching bag, as you mentioned, for my taste. Most of the time, he didn't even deserve all of that abuse.

As with Penny, I noticed a similar flaw in her character to Timmy's character in FOP. There would be some episodes where she'd learn her lesson, such as how she needs her parents instead of being totally independent, but then she would learn them all over again. That same lesson was a part of the movie. Plus, she became just less likable to me during the later part of the series.

[King]

Johnny Test is one of the main ones for me. The first opening did got me hocked. And I did thought something really decent was going to be shown. I did laugh at somewhat smerks at some of the jokes...Like the very first episode.
Later, I realized, this series really have nothing to back-up with its jokes. I do get the humor its trying to pull, but the show doesn't know how to set it right. I can find so many mistakes and floss the series has:

-The pacing is just terrible. There's no pause time, no relax moment. Yeah, I get its 20 minutes long, and you show 2 shorts in this time limit. But thats no reason to rush things. Many shows that has those “showing 2 shorts in 20 mins” have much better pacing than that!

-It seems the events and plots the series have are just in random, there's no really set-up or reason why. Its like, “I'm walking out side....AND A MONSTER DESTROYING THE CITY AND I NEED TO SAVE IT BY DEFINING THE BEAST BY...eating pie.".

Really? I get it if's a cartoon, but please put some real effort into the plot.


-And one of the biggest problem I have with the series its jokes. The series can't make a decent joke. But wait, YELLING JOKES AND RE-STATING WHAT JUST HAPPEN IS FUNNY!! RIGHT!? I MUST BE FUNNY! IT HAS TO BE FUNNY!
No, its not funny, its sad and annoying that the series needs to add those things for humor. The series just hiding its shame.

Look, I get it, its a kid show. And, if I don't like it, I shouldn't be watching it, Which I don't. But try to keep this in mind, I just saw the first episode of it. I did gave it another chance, but no. I realized I shouldn't be watching this show nor should I care.

(And, that show is one the first shows I ever gotten mad of. Which its rare!)

[TenPoundHammer]

SpongeBob SquarePants. I remember way back in 1999, thinking something along the lines of "Well, I like everything else Nickelodeon has thrown at me (except Ren & Stimpy), and this looks like it's gonna be totally random and funny like most of their other shows." I watched a couple episodes, didn't laugh once, thought all the characters were stupid, and said "forget it." I even tried to get into it again after seeing how popular it was, both before and after the movie. Didn't help. (I will give the show credit, though, whenever it hangs a lampshade on the way the writers play fast and loose with underwater physics.)

I just can't find one likeable character except Sandy Cheeks, and the fact that nearly everyone else is dumber than a box of rocks and/or incredibly cranky doesn't help either. I hate the "too dumb to live" type characters in general, and I certainly don't like having nearly the entire cast being that way (also a major reason why I hate The Simpsons so much).

[King]

I just can't find one likeable character except Sandy Cheeks, and the fact that nearly everyone else is dumber than a box of rocks and/or incredibly cranky doesn't help either. I hate the "too dumb to live" type characters in general, and I certainly don't like having nearly the entire cast being that way (also a major reason why I hate The Simpsons so much).

Yeah, I get what your trying to say. Though, at the early season from The Simpsons, not everyone was dumb. It was more like...Absentminded.
The problems and events what the simpsons made wasn't like family guy or how SpongeBob are.
But...Thats me.

[Leviathan]

I sort of zoned out of Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends after the start of Season 2. There's funny jerks from other shows (Bender, Master Shake, Zim, etc.) and then there's Bloo. And that's not even getting into Bendy and all that.

[JD08]

I sort of zoned out of Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends after the start of Season 2. There's funny jerks from other shows (Bender, Master Shake, Zim, etc.) and then there's Bloo. And that's not even getting into Bendy and all that.
Fosters had an opportunity to make a good show based off imaginary friends but it kind of turned into the Bloo being a jerk show with random friends popping up.

[Lonestarr]

Danny Phantom comes to mind. Concept was pretty cool, except it was ruined right from the beginning (it started off as an obnoxious children's comedy, then started to actually try and take itself seriously, especially with that Danny/Sam angle).

As super-forced as it was, I have a soft spot for Danny/Sam. Still, this is a good example. Great concept, interesting characters...completely torpedoed by being filtered through the Butch Hartman formula (sacrificing everything in the name of cheap jokes). It boggles the mind that it finished in this site's list of best cartoons of the decade. (I imagine that it made the list because of what people wanted it to be as opposed to what it actually was.) With better writing, a more appropriate score and, of course, better writing, it could've easily have been the classic its fans hold it up to be.

[Light Lucario]

Fosters had an opportunity to make a good show based off imaginary friends but it kind of turned into the Bloo being a jerk show with random friends popping up.

I agree. I initially thought that Fosters was a great idea and the premier was really cool. I think that it just put too much focus on Bloo being a jerk, even though he didn't seem like one in the premier, while being with Mac and other imaginary friends. Though, I think that the movies, Good Wilt Hunting and Destination Imagination, were terrific, if only because they weren't like the show. Or at least focused more on other more likable characters to me.

[TheGunheart]

The movies were great because they actually explored the premise a little. In Good Wilt Hunting, we got to see the people who imagined the friends in the first place, and got to see why Wilt looks the way he does. The most fun I thought was how all of Eduardo's odd quirks made perfect sense after we saw his creator.

Destination Imagination took a look at what happens when a friend doesn't want to be taken away, amplified by the fact that he was, in the confines of the box, a reality warper.

Of course, it also helped that the stories themselves were good, but I thought it was cool how they actually showed a side to the imaginary friends besides "they're like normal people, only they look weird".

[Lavenderpaw]

Agreed full-heartedly.


Third-ed. I'm sorry, but anything after the fourth season (around the 2005 mark with Norm the Genie) is pretty much bottom-of-the-barrel garbage.

I mean, I get sick of Timmy getting hurt and even Cosmo and Wanda start to really hurt him. Cosmo turns from well-meaning idiot to completely annoying goob, Wanda is no longer her pleasant, cautionary self (you know what I mean; she's never perfect, but she tries to help her hubbie and godchild out) and Timmy is completely cruel now.

Hartman, find something else to do. :shrug:

[Scirel]

Third-ed. I'm sorry, but anything after the fourth season (around the 2005 mark with Norm the Genie) is pretty much bottom-of-the-barrel garbage.

I mean, I get sick of Timmy getting hurt and even Cosmo and Wanda start to really hurt him. Cosmo turns from well-meaning idiot to completely annoying goob, Wanda is no longer her pleasant, cautionary self (you know what I mean; she's never perfect, but she tries to help her hubbie and godchild out) and Timmy is completely cruel now.

Hartman, find something else to do. :shrug:

IIRC he's said severa; times he dosen`t care about FOP at all anymore.

He's bitter over DP's cancellation, but that's what happens when you go the ADJL route and make 80% of your episodes pointless filler and the last 20% really good stroy driven episodes.

Just like ADJL, he didn`t know what he wanted, a comedy show with a superhero, or a superhero show with soem comedy? It kept going back and forth.

Kim Possible was a success because it knew from the start it wanted to be the former.

[Light Lucario]

The movies were great because they actually explored the premise a little. In Good Wilt Hunting, we got to see the people who imagined the friends in the first place, and got to see why Wilt looks the way he does. The most fun I thought was how all of Eduardo's odd quirks made perfect sense after we saw his creator.

Destination Imagination took a look at what happens when a friend doesn't want to be taken away, amplified by the fact that he was, in the confines of the box, a reality warper.

Of course, it also helped that the stories themselves were good, but I thought it was cool how they actually showed a side to the imaginary friends besides "they're like normal people, only they look weird".

Those are good points. That's what I liked about Good Wilt Hunting since we got more backstory on the other imaginary friends, mainly Wilt and Eduardo, and it made them more interesting to me. It also helps that Wilt is my favorite character from Fosters, but it was still nice to see that side of imaginary friends. Destination Imagination had a more intense storyline with World being emotionally and psychologically damaged from being taken away and confined to his box. It was nice that they explored more with these imaginary friends, which is why I wish that the series was more like how those movies were handled.


He's bitter over DP's cancellation, but that's what happens when you go the ADJL route and make 80% of your episodes pointless filler and the last 20% really good stroy driven episodes.

Just like ADJL, he didn`t know what he wanted, a comedy show with a superhero, or a superhero show with soem comedy? It kept going back and forth.

Kim Possible was a success because it knew from the start it wanted to be the former.

I see where you're coming from and I agree with you that Danny Phantom did have too much filler kind of episodes, especially during season three if I remember correctly. Though, in the show's defense, I thought that most of those episodes were more interesting than the fillers in the first season of American Dragon, if only for the better fight scenes. I thought that Danny Phantom had some comedy, but not a lot of comedy, depending on the episode. Though, I agree that was one of the problems with American Dragon. For most of the first season, it was a comedy show with a superhero, but then they went to mostly a superhero show with some comedy during season two. The change was good and refreshing, but it didn't seem to work out for the better, in terms of getting a satisfying conclusion for the series.

[Wesyeed]

Great thread.

I'd like to add samurai Jack to the pile of misfires. After some soul searching, I have to come out of denial and realize the show really is just a series of repetitive fights and nothing more. If anything maybe its mistakes will lead to cartoons not making them in the future.:shrug:

edit:

Oh and let me add the simpsons movie. It's really sad to me that the south park movie will forever be better made than the one and only simpsons film. It came too late unfortunately, at a time when the show completely lost what made it good in the first place. What made it good? I'll tell you. The stories. The writers have recently forgotten that above all else, the simpsons was probably the best at creating unique plots with its characters that episode after episode brought something new to the mix whether it be a musical number or outrageous aliens or some sort of mystical halloween episode. The creative genius behind the show knew no limits. The same can be said of early southpark, and precisely when the show hit its prime, it recieved a feature length film that captured its best qualities. Tis a shame the simpsons didn't follow its lead years later.

[Neo Yi]

I see where you're coming from and I agree with you that Danny Phantom did have too much filler kind of episodes, especially during season three if I remember correctly.

Honestly, I didn't see too much over-filler in Danny Phantom (or at least 80% as another poster stated). I'd wager it's more or less halfway, but even the most filler of plots has one thing that is either a callback to a previous episode or an element that is mentioned or vital in a future episode, though I suppose that's less about plot development then it is continuity. *shrugs* The show definitely had that structure where you can watch a number of episodes without worrying about a previous one despite their constant continuity.

[Light Lucario]

Honestly, I didn't see too much over-filler in Danny Phantom (or at least 80% as another poster stated). I'd wager it's more or less halfway, but even the most filler of plots has one thing that is either a callback to a previous episode or an element that is mentioned or vital in a future episode, though I suppose that's less about plot development then it is continuity. *shrugs* The show definitely had that structure where you can watch a number of episodes without worrying about a previous one despite their constant continuity.

I forgot to mention that I didn't think Danny Phantom had that much filler, definitely not eighty percent, in my last post. I thought quite a few episodes in the last season were filler-like, but I haven't seen that season in ages, so I could be wrong. Or maybe I'm thinking of the villain of the week episodes that the series had every now and then. I think that you have a good point about the show's structure. There was constant continuity, but you didn't have to watch all of the previous episodes in order to understand the current season or new episode. It would obviously help and make the character interactions more meaningful, but it wasn't necessary like other shows with heavy continuity.

[Neo Yi]

I forgot to mention that I didn't think Danny Phantom had that much filler, definitely not eighty percent, in my last post. I thought quite a few episodes in the last season were filler-like, but I haven't seen that season in ages, so I could be wrong.

Nah, you're not wrong - I was just speaking in an overall term. Season Three had a terrible case of unnecessary filler episodes, most of which I find either average or terrible. The last season did have its own structure/plot arc that culminated into the last episodes, so I guess there's some creditability to give, it's just frustrating when they ignored the unanswered plots and character arcs from the last two seasons.

[cardman42]

Nobody seems to have mentioned "Extreme Ghostbusters" yet, so I will do it now. As a big fan of the franchise, I felt that this cartoon was a big let down. I liked it a little bit as a kid, but looking back it is not that good. Here are some of the things I dislike about it.

#1. The Ghostbusters we all know and love (Peter, Ray, Egon, and Winston) have been replaced by college students. These are not the Ghostbusters, they are just kids with proton packs.

#2. Darker atmosphere. As dark as "The Real Ghostbusters" may have been at times, at least it was also light-hearted, colorful, and comical at times. Not so much with "EGB".

#3. Different animation style. DiC did a wonderful job with "RGB". "EGB" just did not have as good a look.

#4. Eduardo, the Hispanic guy. He's basically Venkman without laughs. Slimer was the only character who was remotely amusing.

#5. Theme song. It was way too different than the Ray Parker Jr. song. At least "RGB" stuck close to it.

Who else agrees with me on this show?

[HellCat]

I think your first complaint doesn't really hold up. Certainly there are many valid problems with the show (such as the ultra PC casting) but that first complaint reminds me of the fanboys who whine Batman Beyond doesn't count due to Terry being Batman. Both BB and EGB had a clear plot of 'a new generation is trained by the first and continue their legacy'. Fair do if you'd rather see more adventures of the original iconic Ghostbusters but it's not really fair to fault the show for wanting to widen the mythos with a new cast. They even did a team up story after all.

[Plague Rat]

I sort of zoned out of Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends after the start of Season 2. There's funny jerks from other shows (Bender, Master Shake, Zim, etc.) and then there's Bloo. And that's not even getting into Bendy and all that.
Bloo honestly just grew more annoying IMO. But when it comes to annoying... I think Cheese and Goo take the tie.

Yes, for the record, I do hate Goo. Apparently I'm strange for this. I'm sorry that for the entire episode she first appeared in, I did not have any sympathy for her whatsoever and found her to be a royal pain. Adding her to the cast was essentially useless. Just added more annoyances to the newer episodes. :/

Actually, the movie promised a lot more than the series in general really gave. Maybe that's just me though.

[cardman42]

They even did a team up story after all.

Yes, and that episode was the best in my opinion. It was good to see the old guys again.

I'm not a Ghostbusters fanboy, and I do not exactly hate "EGB" with a passion. As I said, I sort of liked it as a kid. The plots for each episode were original for the most part, and some even seemed like they were inspired by episodes of RGB. I just don't think this series has held up as well as "RGB".

Also, about my first comment, I should have worded it a little better. I don't think the new characters are really as memorable as Peter, Ray, Egon, or Winston. At least Egon was a character in the series, but it was more of a supporting role.