Once Great Cable Channels That Have Gone Downhill

[TMC1982]

*AMC post 2001, when they started becoming more of a "general movies" channel (hell, they once played "Catwoman" for Christ's sake) instead of a classic film channel. It was also around this period, that they became an advertiser-supported network (which as result, meant that the movies had to be edited for objectionable content).

*BET some time after Viacom took over

*Cartoon Network whenever they started showing live-action stuff

*Disney Channel post 2002, when they stopped being a general audience channel (hence, the elimination of "Vault Disney") in favor of tween fare (which also came at the expense of animation)

*ESPN sometime after Disney took over

*ESPN Classic post 2004, when it became awfully apparent that they weren't trying anymore

*G4 shortly after Neal Tiles became the president of the network

*MTV post 1997

*Nickelodeon post 1999

*TV Land whenever they started showing current reality shows (e.g. "Extreme Makeover") and movies (when the channel should be devoted to classic TV programming)

*VH1 post 2001 (when they started relying too much on pop culture nostalgia like "Best Week Ever" and the "I Love the..." series and crummy reality shows)

[Michael24]

*AMC post 2001, when they started becoming more of a "general movies" channel (hell, they once played "Catwoman" for Christ's sake) instead of a classic film channel. It was also around this period, that they became an advertiser-supported network (which as result, meant that the movies had to be edited for objectionable content).

*Disney Channel post 2002, when they stopped being a general audience channel (hence, the elimination of "Vault Disney") in favor of tween fare (which also came at the expense of animation)

*MTV post 1997

*VH1 post 2001 (when they started relying too much on pop culture nostalgia like "Best Week Ever" and the "I Love the..." series and crummy reality shows)

Agreed. I still watch AMC a lot, but I do miss the commercial interruption-free days of hosts, classic films, movie serials, specials (like "Backstory"), and Remember WENN.

I'll probably get flamed for it, but I'll say FX as well. I loved the early days with the hosts in the Manhattan apartment, their live shows, and the vintage programming like Batman and The Green Hornet. I just don't care for post-90s FX.

[DarthGonzo]

*Nickelodeon post 1999



Could you elaborate? And please don't say it has something to do with Spongebob.

[EinBebop]

*AMC post 2001, when they started becoming more of a "general movies" channel.To be fair, I credit AMC for lasting as long as it did, what with the competition actually owning such a large number of the truly classic movies.

[Mek]

Agreed. I still watch AMC a lot, but I do miss the commercial interruption-free days of hosts, classic films, movie serials, specials (like "Backstory"), and Remember WENN.


You can pretty much get that stuff on Turner Classic Movies these days (except for Remember WENN), but I've noticed that even TMC is starting to get into the 60's and even some 80's movies. Granted, they usually show them during a themed movie marathon, but still, a little disconcerting.

G4 should pretty much be called Spike 2 now. They don't even show any video game related stuff anymore unless it's during E3.

Disney Channel is a classic fall from grace to most of us, but whatever rakes in the dough...

[Silverstar]

*Cartoon Network whenever they started showing live-action stuff

It was around 2005 or 2006. However, in their defense, the only live-action airing on CN currently is the odd live-action movie on The Flicks. Aside from their new live-action fetish, I'd say CN is in better shape than it was in 2007, aka the Out of Jimmy's Head era.



*Disney Channel post 2002, when they stopped being a general audience channel (hence, the elimination of "Vault Disney") in favor of tween fare (which also came at the expense of animation)Gotta agree with you here. TDC was better when it was a general entertainment channel. I know I'm well past their target demographic, but the teen/tween fare just isn't for me. I wouldn't even mind this new youth-centric movement Disney is in right now if the shows were at least entertaining, but unfortunately, none of them pull me in. Some, like Wizards of Waverly Place, That's So Raven, Hannah Montana and Phil of the Future, were at least interesting ideas, but IMO they completely botched the execution. The heinously inappropriate fake laugh track punctuating every single "joke" on most of the shows doesn't help. But hey, whatever rakes in the jack.


*MTV post 1997 I severed my ties with MTV a long time ago, sometime between The State and Jackass. The 'M' in MTV used to stand for Music, now it stands for Medicore.


*G4 shortly after Neal Tiles became the president of the networkAs a geek, I'm truly saddened by what G4 has become. Of course, part of me still holds a grudge with G4 for devouring TechTV and spitting out the bones just because they wanted X-Play (you want the show, Comcast? Fine, but you didn't have to kill an entire network from the inside just to get it); which ultimately amounted to nothing because shortly thereafter G4 began dining on itself, removing nearly all of it's video game-based content in favor of crap like Cops and Cheaters. I understand that nerd shows don't bring in wide audiences, but they should've stayed true to their small but loyal geek viewers. Right now G4 can't decide whether it wants to be a Nerd Channel or Spike TV's younger brother. The truly sad part is that if the alleged G4/TechTV merger had been legitimate rather than a thinly disguised takeover by G4, a combination classic G4/TechTV channel would've rocked hard. It still would've only been niche, but it would've been a heck of a lot better than what we've got now.


*ESPN Classic post 2004, when it became awfully apparent that they weren't trying anymore

The only thing I watched on ESPN Classic was Cheap Seats, so when that show ended, I was done with them. Frelling ESPN Classic doesn't even show the reruns anymore.


*BET some time after Viacom took overI was never into BET. Ever. And I'm a third black.

[Taekmkm]

G4 was a nice concept, but they probably realized it's more fun to play the games than watch people play them.

[Hanshotfirst113]

*AMC post 2001, when they started becoming more of a "general movies" channel (hell, they once played "Catwoman" for goodness sake) instead of a classic film channel. It was also around this period, that they became an advertiser-supported network (which as result, meant that the movies had to be edited for objectionable content).

Yeah, plus I miss "Cinema Secrets."


*Cartoon Network whenever they started showing live-action stuff

Long before that, some would say. There's a lot that they used to show that I miss....


*G4 shortly after Neal Tiles became the president of the network

My buddy liked TechTV until about the time that "Attack of the Show" talked about making good beer :P. I never had it

Lots of people will probably make a case against Sci-Fi as well.

[Ishtar]

*Cartoon Network whenever they started showing live-action stuff
Personally I felt that Cartoon Network slowly started to go down hill in 2004. That was when they revamped the entire look of the channel, started showing more commercial breaks, less and less older programming, Toonami's move to Saturdays only, CCF was changed to CF with live action hosts(It pretty much felt like Nick's U-Pick Live/Slimetime Live/TEENick), and they also became way more obsessive about ratings and cared more about being like Nickelodeon than showing decent programming. I mean it feels like since 2004, or at least 2005, they wouldn't even give shows as much of a chance anymore. They made schedule changes constantly, at least every 2 weeks or so.


*Disney Channel post 2002, when they stopped being a general audience channel (hence, the elimination of "Vault Disney") in favor of tween fare (which also came at the expense of animation)
This is definitely true, although I feel it was already going slightly downhill when they introduced Zoog Disney. Zoog Disney pretty much started the whole idea of aiming for mainly the tween audience.


*MTV post 1997
This is undeniable. I mean, the channel is called MTV, as in Music Television! It's not RTV, as in Reality Television! However, I guess they felt people didn't care enough about watching music videos anymore, sadly.


*Nickelodeon post 1999
I think this is debatable, depending upon how old you were at the time. I agree certain things weren't that good in 2000, such as Snick being transformed into a TRL based block hosted by Nick Cannon called Snick House, but I still found the network enjoyable. I think what killed Nickelodeon was the fact that they started showing almost nothing but their top 3-5 Nicktoons on at least the weekdays, live action shows were mainly only aired on weekends (although more of their live action shows have started airing on weekdays regularly), and they started to air less to nothing of their classic shows (such as some of the older Nicktoons, Kenan & Kel, All That, Are You Afraid of The Dark?, etc.) Also sad that they pretty much abandoned their game shows, since NickGAS was created, but that network died off.


*TV Land whenever they started showing current reality shows (e.g. "Extreme Makeover") and movies (when the channel should be devoted to classic TV programming)
Don't forget that they even air current sitcoms such as Scrubs. I thought TVLand was supposed to be for the much older shows, while Nick@Nite was supposed to be airing more recent older programming? Yet now TVLand is airing programming even newer than they are.

[chdr]

No mention of TLC yet?

[Silverstar]

I've noticed a few people here citing one reason that Cartoon Network has gone downhill is because they stopped airing their older shows regularly. This complaint comes up at least 3 times a week on the CN folder.

I'm not saying these gripes aren't justified, but there's an elephant in the room that everyone who makes that complaint is refusing to acknowledge, and its' name is Boomerang.

The fact is that Boomerang was created in order to move the classic cartoons off of CN in order to make room for the newer shows. Therefore there's not much need or desire on CN's part to re-air the entirety of their old schedule as long as Boomerang exists. Boomerang is basically where Cartoon Network shows go after they die. (e.g.: all of the old H-B toons, Dexter's Lab, Cow & Chicken, Mike, Lu & Og, Justice League/Unlimited, Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes, Johnny Bravo, The Powerpuff Girls, Teen Titans.)

Keep in mind also that CN is a commercial network, and commercial networks depend on ratings and sponsors to stay afloat. CN can't just loop their older schedules forever because they'd eventually lose money and viewers. Sponsors aren't going to pour money into a channel that doesn't play anything new. Boom can run with no original programming because they're ad-free, which is also why it's in so few homes; cable/satellite subscribers aren't keen to carry the channel since they don't make any money off of it other than subscription fees.

Boomerang is for classics, and CN is for premieres and original programming. And while Boom is sadly little more than an afterthought to Turner/Time-Warner, as long as Boom is around and as long as admen and accountants are running CN, that pecking order isn't going to change anytime soon.

[Classic Speedy]

-Nick at Nite: When it started airing '80s shows. Obviously it couldn't keep showing '50s and '60s material forever, but I have very very few favorites from '80s television in general, so that's why I stopped watching.

-Comedy Central: I can't think of anything notable that debuted on the channel in 2003, and 2004 wasn't much better.

-Nickelodeon: When Wild Thornberrys debuted, I lost interest in the channel in general. SpongeBob in 2000 caused me to tentatively come back, but really only for that show and a few others. Gone were the days of watching it for an entire afternoon, or a full evening block.

-Cartoon Network: 2004 was its high point in the "new era". After that, aside from a few gems, it just didn't hold the same appeal to me.

-Sci-Fi: When MST3K went bye-bye.

-TV Land: When Alf's Hit Talk Show debuted. ...Really? Alf's Hit Talk Show? Anyone who's seen it knows how much of a bomb it was.

-MTV: When they gutted their animation from the line-up, I was gone.

-TechTV/G4: When Extended Play became XPlay.

-USA Network: When Baywatch left the schedule. Face it, whether you like that show or not, it was the most popular show in the world at the time, so USA getting it was a smart move. And, I dunno, I really liked USA's image at the time.

How about a reverse? I didn't really care about TBS for the most part, until they revamped their image in 2004 and brought with it an attitude and wit, especially in their hilarious tongue-in-cheek commercials for movies ("Lord of the Rings", anyone?).

[ABrown]

FX FX FX FX FX FX FX FX FX!!!

Did I mention FX???

I used to watch reruns of 90210, Buffy, The Practice. Where have they all gone? At least 90210 reruns can still be found on Soap Network. And now, at least around where I live, FX has like flickering going on whenever I turn the channel on. It's not just at my apartment, it's when I go to my mom's house too.

[MegaJ]

Subjective Trope. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SubjectiveTropes?from=Main.SubjectiveTrope)

[A.Magik]

Arts & Entertainment used to be about BBC productions, classic films, and stage plays, operas, ballets, and concert. Then it became a TV Land of mystery shows and courtroom dramas.

TNT, before it became the 'rerun-of-prime-time-shows-and-current-movies' channel, used to be a pre-TCM outlet for the Turner Library (Warner Bros./RKO/MGM). Remember its marathon-themed-months for MGM or James Cagney ('No one does --- like TNT!')? When it treated its yearly broadcasts of Gone With The Wind like an event? (Does that movie come on anymore?)

Oh, I used to remember when AMC slammed other channels for their commercial breaks and colorization. Now it has commercials and recently broadcast the colorized version of Miracle at 34th Street!

[Aces 21]

I can agree with some of the posts up here.

MTV: I remember back in a past post that said that I would give them a chance...

Yeah, I would like to retract that statement. All it's become is nothing more than vapid, brainless reality shows that air in constant rotation. It's "Next," "Bromance," "My Super Sweet______," and other stuff I can't think of right now. I should have wised up sooner. VH1, same thing. The only time I'll be interested in these shows is when "The Soup" makes fun of them.

G4: Although I do watch, their programming sometimes leaves something to be desired. Ever since the G4/TechTv merger, they've managed to keep both kinds of programming from each network, but later on started to get crazy by showing little to no gaming and tech stuff, and began acquiring "The Man Show," "Fastlane," "COPS," and "Cheaters" for example. They were trying to become Spike 2 instead of becoming something different and standing out.

TVLand: Strikes me as weird with their stuff. It makes no sense to me of them showing reality shows. Movies, I think I can see them going with classic type stuff. I did catch at one point that they aired "CSI" in a marathon. New TV classic, perhaps?:shrug:

NICK & DISNEY: In the same boat to me. The whole tween sitcom thing is in, and they find it lucrative. Also, they seem a little stagnant in programming. Cartoon Network takes chances that the big two probably wouldn't consider, in my opinion.

BRAVO: Bravo has gone the reality route too. I thought that it showed nothing but operatic and musical performances in the past.

Other than those, I think I may need an explanation on BET, ESPN, & ESPN Classic. Just curious TMC1982.

[TMC1982]

I can agree with some of the posts up here.

MTV: I remember back in a past post that said that I would give them a chance...

Yeah, I would like to retract that statement. All it's become is nothing more than vapid, brainless reality shows that air in constant rotation. It's "Next," "Bromance," "My Super Sweet______," and other stuff I can't think of right now. I should have wised up sooner. VH1, same thing. The only time I'll be interested in these shows is when "The Soup" makes fun of them.

G4: Although I do watch, their programming sometimes leaves something to be desired. Ever since the G4/TechTv merger, they've managed to keep both kinds of programming from each network, but later on started to get crazy by showing little to no gaming and tech stuff, and began acquiring "The Man Show," "Fastlane," "COPS," and "Cheaters" for example. They were trying to become Spike 2 instead of becoming something different and standing out.

TVLand: Strikes me as weird with their stuff. It makes no sense to me of them showing reality shows. Movies, I think I can see them going with classic type stuff. I did catch at one point that they aired "CSI" in a marathon. New TV classic, perhaps?:shrug:

NICK & DISNEY: In the same boat to me. The whole tween sitcom thing is in, and they find it lucrative. Also, they seem a little stagnant in programming. Cartoon Network takes chances that the big two probably wouldn't consider, in my opinion.

BRAVO: Bravo has gone the reality route too. I thought that it showed nothing but operatic and musical performances in the past.

Other than those, I think I may need an explanation on BET, ESPN, & ESPN Classic. Just curious TMC1982.

BET has been criticized in recent years (for example, "The Boondocks" has did at least two episodes bashing BET) for supposedly protraying negative and stereotypical images of black culture. At the same time, it seemed liks less and less emphasis on public affairs shows.

It's hard for me to fully explain right now why ESPN has gone downhill in say, the past ten years. A while back, I posted a thread concerning how Disney ruined ESPN. Here's a Wikipedia article about the criticism that ESPN has received in recent years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_ESPN

ESPN Classic slowly started to go downhill as soon as ESPN took over from the Classic Sports Network. ESPN decided that they needed to put their own thumbprint the the channel (with stuff like "SportsCentury" and "Cheap Seats"). Plus, ESPN never aired the full games (always cut down to two hours) in order to fit in more commercial time. By 2004, they debuted a one hour show called "Drivethru" (which as you would guess, was a condensed, one hour version of classic games).

In recent years, one the rights of the games apparently expired, ESPN and/or Disney was too cheap to renew them. So, they've pretty much been treating ESPN Classic as the red headed step child to ESPN and ESPN2 ever since. Now, most of the schedule is made up of bargin binder crap like poker, X-Games, rodeo, "American Gladiators", "Stump the Schwab", billards, etc.:confused:


FX FX FX FX FX FX FX FX FX!!!

Did I mention FX???

I used to watch reruns of 90210, Buffy, The Practice. Where have they all gone? At least 90210 reruns can still be found on Soap Network. And now, at least around where I live, FX has like flickering going on whenever I turn the channel on. It's not just at my apartment, it's when I go to my mom's house too.

I miss FX during its original live format with the New York City apartment. They also used to air "Batman", "The Green Hornet" and a whole lot other classic TV shows.


Arts & Entertainment used to be about BBC productions, classic films, and stage plays, operas, ballets, and concert. Then it became a TV Land of mystery shows and courtroom dramas.

TNT, before it became the 'rerun-of-prime-time-shows-and-current-movies' channel, used to be a pre-TCM outlet for the Turner Library (Warner Bros./RKO/MGM). Remember its marathon-themed-months for MGM or James Cagney ('No one does --- like TNT!')? When it treated its yearly broadcasts of Gone With The Wind like an event? (Does that movie come on anymore?)

Oh, I used to remember when AMC slammed other channels for their commercial breaks and colorization. Now it has commercials and recently broadcast the colorized version of Miracle at 34th Street!

In fairness to TNT, the USA Network has also become little more than a "rerun-of-prime-time-shows-and-current-movies" channel. I don't recall watching USA all that much during the time that they didn't have WWE programming (when it moved over to Spike TV). I miss the days when USA would air old game shows like the Whammy show (I can't immediately think of its name right now) along with the "Cartoon Express" and "Up All Night".

[GWOtaku]

I was horrified to discover earlier this week that Sci-Fi channel airs pro wrestling on Tuesday nights. What the HELL?

[Master Toon]

*Cartoon Network whenever they started showing live-action stuff

Agreed.


*Disney Channel post 2002, when they stopped being a general audience channel (hence, the elimination of "Vault Disney") in favor of tween fare (which also came at the expense of animation)
I enjoyed the Zoog Disney era and I enjoyed Disney all the way up until Phil of the Future ended.


*G4 shortly after Neal Tiles became the president of the networkI don't know when he became president but I feel that it went downhill when they became a Spike TV clone and stopped being an all-video games network.



NICK & DISNEY: In the same boat to me. The whole tween sitcom thing is in, and they find it lucrative.I know you guys are tired of me defending the tweens but does any of you know what tween programming is? How exactly is Nick and Disney catering to tweens and how exactly are they ignoring kids?

[Jeff Harris]

I miss the days when USA would air old game shows like the Wammy show (I can't immediately think of its name right now) along with the "Cartoon Express" and "Up All Night".You can't think of the name Press Your Luck? Probably one of the greatest game shows ever made? USA MADE that show the pop-culture icon it remains today back in the day. Seriously, I just saw and bought a brand new PYL hand-held game with music, sound effects, and everything.

Not Whammy. Press Your Luck. There's no substitutions for the real thing.

Back to the subject at hand. Once great cable channels that have gone downhill.

Cartoon Network - Although, admittedly, they have gotten better over the last year, but they still have this need to become everything for every kid and still hung up on live-action creation. And canceling original animated shows isn't leaving me with much confidence.

MTV - Is unwatchable. There's nothing up there but "reality" pablum, dating shows, and immature antics. And music is not there. MTV Hits and Jams are the what MTV used to be, and seeing the quagmire that is MTV 2 in the distance, let's hope those channels stay that way.

MTV 2 - What was once promised as the place where the music is, music's rarely there. It's there in pieces, but the two-headed dog is largely a male-oriented channel. Spike with music videos and less syndicated fare.

VH1 - See MTV, but the music's still there in very small amounts.

G4 - The idea of a video game network didn't fill me with much hope when I first heard about it. When that network took over TechTV for channel space and X-Play, the more I realized G4 was a bad element. Once they stripped the only thing that the network was created for, namely game-oriented programming, in favor of the fifth male-oriented channel in the country, then, as is a mantra in their former focus, game ove.

A&E and Bravo - I'm putting both disappointments under the same category because they both were once the cultural heart of cable television. A&E stands for Arts and Entertainment, and that channel was dedicated to theater, Britainia, mysteries, and dramas. Bravo was also focused on the creative arts, airing nearly uncut movies, specials, documentaries, and weekly series. Inside the Actor's Studio is the only show currently on Bravo that resembles the fare the network used to air on a daily basis. Nowadays, Bravo is the home of trashy socialite wives, competition programs, off-network smeg, and cut-up movies.

TV Land - When Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, reality shows, weekly movies, and recent programming airs on a network that celebrates the best of classic television, you know there's a problem.

CMT - It's not as bad as its more popular cousin in regards to music, but when Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, reality shows, weekly movies, and recent programming airs on a network that celebrates the best of country music, you know there's a problem.

Disney Channel - Take away everything that the Disney name once stood for (FAMILY-oriented programming [there's a difference between family-oriented programming and tween-oriented programming; older folks won't be embarrassed to watch them without their kids], animation, and things overseen by Walt Disney himself), and add more tween-based smeg and way too many breaks between shows (here's what I don't understand; if you have slots for commercial space, shouldn't you air actual commercials instead of just self-promotional hubris?), and you've got today's Disney Channel. Kids love it, and it has become the acme of the kid-vid industry and the reason Cartoon Network has become ratings-obsessed and so willing to do everything that it has done.

And now we're back to the top.

[Mesousa]

Can't believe no one mentioned Toon Disney.

The Disney idiots themselves massacred the channel around 2005 or 2006, if I'm correct.

Also, for lazy reasons, they air DAY-LONG Phineas and Ferb marathons every weekend since 2008 was ending. Talk about overkill.

[hobbyfan]

I gotta jump in here. Just about every "niche" channel has, well, "sold out" and become "just another cable network" because it's ultimately about ratings and ad dollars.

AMC (American Movie Classics). I believe this might still be owned by Cablevision (the Dolan family). They finally realized they would never pass Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in the ratings, and had to make a move to survive. Picking up more modern films was a step in that direction, though the choices they've made (Catwoman?) are questionable at best, just like the ownership when it comes to NYC sports. A pity, then, that Remember WENN is not available anywhere, not even on DVD.

MTV, or, as I prefer to call it, Empty-V. Yeah, I got that idea from reading one of Howard Chaykin's comics from a few years back. Turns out that now Chaykin was right. Anyway, the suits will tell you that because most music videos, even the current ones, are readily available online, they don't see the need to showcase them any more, hence the overloading of reality programming, much of it geared to get the internet buzzing anyway. Viacom has also damaged VH1 & CMT by remolding both channels into copycats of Empty-V.

BTW, did Viacom buy G4, which would explain the references to Spike TV?:confused: :shrug:

The problem with most reality shows, though, is that it shows how desperate some people can be to fulfill Andy Warhol's prophesy that "everyone will be famous for fifteen minutes". Niche shows like 120 Minutes, Alternative Nation, et al, have gone the way of the dodo at Empty-V.

Cartoon Network. Everyone knows the problem. CN wants to be so much like Nickelodeon in order to get a chunk of the audience. Can't leave well enough alone. Indeed, a lot of shows introduced this decade haven't done very well (Where have you gone, Time Squad? Class of 3000?) because the suits just can't get behind them enough.

Sister network TNT, along with USA, picks up rerun rights to current prime-time shows in a ridiculous game of ratings chicken, while local stations are lucky to get those same shows on the weekends.

FX. Hard to believe that Jeff Probst (Survivor), Tom Bergeron (Dancing With the Stars, America's Funniest Home Videos), and Orlando Jones (later of Mad TV) all got their start here. Their problem now is playing the shows they have to death with endless blocks on a daily basis. In the last year alone, they've let King of the Hill (now on Adult Swim), Married...With Children (Spike TV), & That 70's Show (ABC Family) leave after playing them into the ground. They never should've given up Green Hornet, Honey West, et al, because the current scheduling schematic exposes their basic flaw. A lack of depth in the library.

Anyone else want to jump in?

[Kitschensyngk]

MTV2
When Wonder Showzen went off, so did I.

Adult Swim
Too much comedy reruns, not enough anime. There used to be a balance.

VH1
Whatever happened to "music first"? The sad thing is VH1 Classic is taking the same route now.

Cartoon Network
When it started making me feel I was too old to watch it.

[Aces 21]

I gotta jump in here. Just about every "niche" channel has, well, "sold out" and become "just another cable network" because it's ultimately about ratings and ad dollars.

AMC (American Movie Classics). I believe this might still be owned by Cablevision (the Dolan family). They finally realized they would never pass Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in the ratings, and had to make a move to survive. Picking up more modern films was a step in that direction, though the choices they've made (Catwoman?) are questionable at best, just like the ownership when it comes to NYC sports. A pity, then, that Remember WENN is not available anywhere, not even on DVD.

MTV, or, as I prefer to call it, Empty-V. Yeah, I got that idea from reading one of Howard Chaykin's comics from a few years back. Turns out that now Chaykin was right. Anyway, the suits will tell you that because most music videos, even the current ones, are readily available online, they don't see the need to showcase them any more, hence the overloading of reality programming, much of it geared to get the internet buzzing anyway. Viacom has also damaged VH1 & CMT by remolding both channels into copycats of Empty-V.

BTW, did Viacom buy G4, which would explain the references to Spike TV?:confused: :shrug:

The problem with most reality shows, though, is that it shows how desperate some people can be to fulfill Andy Warhol's prophesy that "everyone will be famous for fifteen minutes". Niche shows like 120 Minutes, Alternative Nation, et al, have gone the way of the dodo at Empty-V.

Cartoon Network. Everyone knows the problem. CN wants to be so much like Nickelodeon in order to get a chunk of the audience. Can't leave well enough alone. Indeed, a lot of shows introduced this decade haven't done very well (Where have you gone, Time Squad? Class of 3000?) because the suits just can't get behind them enough.

Sister network TNT, along with USA, picks up rerun rights to current prime-time shows in a ridiculous game of ratings chicken, while local stations are lucky to get those same shows on the weekends.

FX. Hard to believe that Jeff Probst (Survivor), Tom Bergeron (Dancing With the Stars, America's Funniest Home Videos), and Orlando Jones (later of Mad TV) all got their start here. Their problem now is playing the shows they have to death with endless blocks on a daily basis. In the last year alone, they've let King of the Hill (now on Adult Swim), Married...With Children (Spike TV), & That 70's Show (ABC Family) leave after playing them into the ground. They never should've given up Green Hornet, Honey West, et al, because the current scheduling schematic exposes their basic flaw. A lack of depth in the library.

Anyone else want to jump in?

Well, no. G4 is in competition with Spike for a male audience, and is owned by Comcast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_(TV_channel) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_%28TV_channel%29)

To TMC1982: I've read the article, and I see it now. There are a lot of issues with the whole ESPN thing. A complete clusterbomb. And for BET, I couldn't believe that they got rid of their nightly news program for something else. When you get rid of a news program for an canceled sitcom, something's up.

Master Toon: That's okay if you want to defend the tween demographic, but the problem, to me anyway, is that they have to put more variety in the schedule. Back then Nick had game shows, sports related programming, and some dramas. Unless it brings in viewers week after week, can a network survive on a handfull of the same shows over and over again but with new episodes sprinkled about? You gotta switch up the game if you want to compete, right?

Disney has a vast vault of stuff that they could show, or come up with something different, like an action oriented girl show, or something. It may be a flawed opinion, but I'm just saying.

[Blackstar]

The Learning Channel (TLC) - I used to watch this back when it was Discovery Channel Too, but after TLC's lineup became nothing more than a showcase for Extreme Makeover and all of it's clones and reality show crap, this channel became like plutonium to me; something that I completely avoid.

The Disney Channel - There's nothing wrong with catering to teens and pre-teens. Give them 2 or 3 hours a day. A block. Have a party. But when TDC began catering to tweens exclusively and forgetting about the rest of the family, there was no longer any need to tune in. Mickey and the gang have all but disappeared from the channel, but wasn't the Disney Channel originally created to showcase Mickey and company?

TNT - Might as well be called the Law & Order Channel, because everytime I turn to it, there's a rerun of Law & Order. If it wasn't for the NBA games, I wouldn't watch TNT at all.

G4 - Make up your minds, G4. What are you? You're either a channel for gaming nerds or you're Spike TV Jr., you can't be both.

[TMC1982]

The Learning Channel (TLC) - I used to watch this back when it was Discovery Channel Too, but after TLC's lineup became nothing more than a showcase for Extreme Makeover and all of it's clones and reality show crap, this channel became like plutonium to me; something that I completely avoid.

The Disney Channel - There's nothing wrong with catering to teens and pre-teens. Give them 2 or 3 hours a day. A block. Have a party. But when TDC began catering to tweens exclusively and forgetting about the rest of the family, there was no longer any need to tune in. Mickey and the gang have all but disappeared from the channel, but wasn't the Disney Channel originally created to showcase Mickey and company?

TNT - Might as well be called the Law & Order Channel, because everytime I turn to it, there's a rerun of Law & Order. If it wasn't for the NBA games, I wouldn't watch TNT at all.

G4 - Make up your minds, G4. What are you? You're either a channel for gaming nerds or you're Spike TV Jr., you can't be both.

Disney shouldn't be airing their tween stuff late at night, when all of the kiddies should be sleeping. They've way, way overexposed all of their hit live-action shows (which seemed to simply be It's a Laugh Production shows) at the expense of animation and vintage material (as I've previously metioned). The only time that you see Mickey Mouse these days is on the Disney Channel logo itself (the opaque outline of his ears).

[TMC1982]

Agreed.

I enjoyed the Zoog Disney era and I enjoyed Disney all the way up until Phil of the Future ended.

I don't know when he became president but I feel that it went downhill when they became a Spike TV clone and stopped being an all-video games network.

I know you guys are tired of me defending the tweens but does any of you know what tween programming is? How exactly is Nick and Disney catering to tweens and how exactly are they ignoring kids?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_(TV_channel)#Format


Format
On September 19, 2005, it was reported by TVweek.com[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_(TV_channel)#cite_note-4) that former DirecTV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV) executive Neal Tiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Neal_Tiles&action=edit&redlink=1)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_(TV_channel)#cite_note-5) had replaced G4 founder Charles Hirschhorn as the channel's CEO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_executive_officer). Also reported was a managerial decision to decrease G4's emphasis on video game coverage, in favor of a shift toward a male general interest programming format, reminiscent of Spike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_(TV_channel)). The programming format mostly consists of syndicated material.
Its website address in lieu of the slogan "Videogame TV" was introduced and gradually replaced the existing logo over the next few months.
Variety.com reported, "Now, under the aegis of Comcast and new president Neal Tiles, G4 is evolving into a lifestyle channel, peppered with videogame culture, as opposed to wall-to-wall games."
"We're going through a change. Guys like to play games, but not necessarily watch a bunch of shows with games on the screen," Tiles says. "So what we're doing now is expanding G4 from a network solely defined by videogames to one inspired by them."[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_(TV_channel)#cite_note-6)

[Ishtar]

Disney shouldn't be airing their tween stuff late at night, when all of the kiddies should be sleeping. They've way, way overexposed all of their hit live-action shows (which seemed to simply be It's a Laugh Production shows) at the expense of animation and vintage material (as I've previously metioned). The only time that you see Mickey Mouse these days is on the Disney Channel logo itself (the opaque outline of his ears).
Well, to be technical, there is Mickey's Club House on Playhouse Disney, but that's still not the classic Mickey. It really makes no sense why Disney insists on airing their tween shows in the late hours. Besides the older teenagers/young adults, which Disney doesn't seem to care about like most kids networks, most kids are in bed during the late hour to get up for school in the morning. It's sad, because nowadays all Disney Channel seems to air are their original shows. Occasionaly they will air a Theatrical Disney movie, but even most of the movies are Made For Disney Channel movies, or sometimes they are movies that Disney didn't even produce but merely aquired the airing rights for.

[TMC1982]

Well, to be technical, there is Mickey's Club House on Playhouse Disney, but that's still not the classic Mickey. It really makes no sense why Disney insists on airing their tween shows in the late hours. Besides the older teenagers/young adults, which Disney doesn't seem to care about like most kids networks, most kids are in bed during the late hour to get up for school in the morning. It's sad, because nowadays all Disney Channel seems to air are their original shows. Occasionaly they will air a Theatrical Disney movie, but even most of the movies are Made For Disney Channel movies, or sometimes they are movies that Disney didn't even produce but merely aquired the airing rights for.

Why can't Disney air more of their old school movies like "Snow White" or "Sleeping Beauty" for example? Basically, any movie not made after say, 1999, has no place on the current Disney Channel. There are only so many times that you can air "High School Musical".:ack:

[garfield15]

Why can't Disney air more of their old school movies like "Snow White" or "Sleeping Beauty" for example? Basically, any movie not made after say, 1999, has no place on the current Disney Channel. There are only so many times that you can air "High School Musical".:ack:
I thought the same thing once upon a time.

Then I learned limits no longer existed.

[Zorak Masaki]

I will say this about TBS, at least they no longer start their shows at :05 anymore, i always hated when they did that (though i have seen a promo from 1991 that had shows starting at #:00 so they did experiment with regular time slots for a time).

[TMC1982]

I will say this about TBS, at least they no longer start their shows at :05 anymore, i always hated when they did that (though i have seen a promo from 1991 that had shows starting at #:00 so they did experiment with regular time slots for a time).

You mean "Turner Time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TBS_(TV_network)#Turner_Time)".

[Katsumara]

I agree on the Cartoon Network/Disney thing.

Curious though about the ESPN one? Sure it isn't 100% Sports as they try to cover other events having to do with sports, I'm not sure how they've gotten worse. Their coverage of games is still spot-on, their HD is great, etc.

[Bloody Marquis]

Yeah, Disney Channel's rotted and decayed into a vain tween network.

A&E - I can barely remember when the network wasn't just reality shows.

The History Channel - Honestly, what's with all the doomsday and Hitler documentaries? Almost every day, a documentary about how the world can end is featured.

MTV - As someone who's still part of the demographic, I have to say that I got bored and stopped watching the network years ago. Instead of music or any of the unique feel that shows like Daria or Celebrity Deathmatch gave, all there is now are some faux-reality shows.

E! - Okay, aside from The Soup, this network technically wasn't good at all. But there certainly had to be a time where their schedules weren't filled with stuff like Girls Next Door or Dr. 90210.

[TMC1982]

Yeah, Disney Channel's rotted and decayed into a vain tween network.

A&E - I can barely remember when the network wasn't just reality shows.

The History Channel - Honestly, what's with all the doomsday and Hitler documentaries? Almost every day, a documentary about how the world can end is featured.

MTV - As someone who's still part of the demographic, I have to say that I got bored and stopped watching the network years ago. Instead of music or any of the unique feel that shows like Daria or Celebrity Deathmatch gave, all there is now are some faux-reality shows.

E! - Okay, aside from The Soup, this network technically wasn't good at all. But there certainly had to be a time where their schedules weren't filled with stuff like Girls Next Door or Dr. 90210.

I also hate the fact that E! has seriously negliected their "SNL" rights. They act as though, "SNL" didn't exist until after say, 1997. Plus, the only episodes that they air typically feature hosts of people that they cover on a daily basis.

[Zack]

I have yet to see anyone mention Boomerang (post-2005). It used to have better variety and more competent scheduling back then.

-Sundays was dedicated to Boomeraction with action cartoons all day long.
-Fridays had marathons of a different cartoon per month.
-Every Saturday was dedicated to showing cartoons all day based on their decade of origin.

Nowadays, the channel is a complete mess as it had relied too much on the same Hanna-Barbera shows and has become a dumping ground for CN's more recent shows.

[Moto Pete]

In fairness to TNT, the USA Network has also become little more than a "rerun-of-prime-time-shows-and-current-movies" channel. I don't recall watching USA all that much during the time that they didn't have WWE programming (when it moved over to Spike TV). I miss the days when USA would air old game shows like the Whammy show (I can't immediately think of its name right now) along with the "Cartoon Express" and "Up All Night".


Press your Luck

[Silverstar]

I have yet to see anyone mention Boomerang (post-2005). It used to have better variety and more competent scheduling back then.

-Sundays was dedicated to Boomeraction with action cartoons all day long.
-Fridays had marathons of a different cartoon per month.
-Every Saturday was dedicated to showing cartoons all day based on their decade of origin.

Nowadays, the channel is a complete mess as it had relied too much on the same Hanna-Barbera shows and has become a dumping ground for CN's more recent shows.

To me, Boomerang has been exactly the same since I first got it back in 2004. They've literally been using the same bumps since day 1, and that was 9 years ago. As long as Boom remains ad-free and therefore not concerned in the slightest bit with ratings, I don't see them changing anytime soon. Turner could conceivably turn Boom around completely, making it truly something special to behold, but that would require money and effort, clearly more than Turner is willing to pour into it.

[soundmonkey44]

theres so many

[Pretty much every Viacom network such as Nick, MTV MTV2 BET

& the classic networks ABC NBC, CBS have been going downhill sine around 98

DISNEY started in going downhill by making all there genaric sitcoms!

A&E,-was this network ever good to being with?

TLC...I learn nothing valuble from this channel

TNT-no where as good as it was in the 90's!

I think I would be easy to say basically TV overall sucks so far this century compared to the 20th century...(With a few exceptions Like Sci-fi, its good & ANim-mondays makes up for all the b,c list movies they show. CN since its picked itsself out of its stink this past year, & CW since it is the last network with a real satruday morning block!)

[Silverstar]

A&E,-was this network ever good to being with?

Yes. Back when they used to actually show highbrow cultural performances and decent Britcoms.

[Nightwing]

Anyone else want to jump in?


I was going to anyway, but thank you very kindly for asking. :) I don't know who Howad Chaykin is but I'll gladly look him up. See I realized that people realized what happened to MTV long before I did (nowadays it's almost a redundant cliche and people think their cool for saying it or whatever).

I first noticed by means of one of the main things that exposes bad pop culture happenings that I don't keep up with: South Park. There was an episode that used a scene making fun of MTV saying something like, "This is MTV: the cool hip 12 and under station that...." blah blah etc. It was funny but I didn't know it was true at the time. I take South Park jokes with a grain of salt until I look into the specific matter myself. When I did, sure enough, it was a sure thing.

I also don't like looking on the bright side (oh to once again be a Me from a few years ago who would do that by mantra) with Boomerang. First of all, those cartoons that I grew up with (created within my childhood or decades before) do not deserve to be "stored in the attic" ratings or no ratings. Yeah I get they're doing that for the money, but kids tastes and attention spans are nonexistent. You could keep SOME of my shows on the network and just put them near the same slots as the garbage stuff you prefer to show.

Regardless of that, my cable TV provider doesn't offer Boomerang. So I don't even get the Cartoon Attic. I just have a cartoon studio appartment! EVERYONE DESERVES THE CARTOON ATTIC. Think of all the times you went to your family member's house and read their old comic books (or, insert your own fandom item here) and that's what got you into whatever fandom you're in now.

Don't forget your history, America! The more time goes by the more you'll overlook the fact that memories and pieces of our way of life get lost if they aren'tremembered by things like these cartoons.

[Master Toon]

I gotta jump in here. Just about every "niche" channel has, well, "sold out" and become "just another cable network" because it's ultimately about ratings and ad dollars.

Hey! Wait just a minute there buster.. hmmmm.. you know what? You're absolutely right. There's only a few networks like Nickelodeon who have stuck to their niche. Btw, yes Nick may have changed but they're still "just for kids" as they've always been.


Adult Swim
Too much comedy reruns, not enough anime. There used to be a balance.

Actually at the beginning there was only one anime so technically it's out of balance.


Master Toon: That's okay if you want to defend the tween demographic, but the problem, to me anyway, is that they have to put more variety in the schedule. Back then Nick had game shows, sports related programming, and some dramas. Unless it brings in viewers week after week, can a network survive on a handfull of the same shows over and over again but with new episodes sprinkled about? You gotta switch up the game if you want to compete, right?

Disney has a vast vault of stuff that they could show, or come up with something different, like an action oriented girl show, or something. It may be a flawed opinion, but I'm just saying.

True Nick and Disney don't have much variety anymore but how does the lack of variety equal tween? That's what I don't understand.


The Disney Channel - There's nothing wrong with catering to teens and pre-teens. Give them 2 or 3 hours a day. A block. Have a party. But when TDC began catering to tweens exclusively and forgetting about the rest of the family, there was no longer any need to tune in. Mickey and the gang have all but disappeared from the channel, but wasn't the Disney Channel originally created to showcase Mickey and company?

What shows in Disney's past qualified as "family-oriented"? I want to start googling some of these shows.


G4
- Make up your minds, G4. What are you? You're either a channel for gaming nerds or you're Spike TV Jr., you can't be both.They're a nerdy Spike clone. Don't like X-Play and a few gaming specials fool you, they're just a compilation of "nerdy" culture.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_(TV_channel)#Format (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_%28TV_channel%29#Format)

LOL. I'm guessing at the same time, huh?

[Blackstar]

What shows in Disney's past qualified as "family-oriented"? I want to start googling some of these shows.

Compilations of classic Disney shorts such as Good Morning, Mickey, aka Mouse Tracks, Donald Duck Presents, aka Quack Attack, Mousterpiece Theater and The Mouse Factory. Former Disney Afternoon greats such as DuckTales, Chip 'N' Dale: Rescue Rangers, TaleSpin, Darkwing Duck, Goof Troop, Bonkers, etc. Also original series like Kim Possible and The Proud Family. All of these shows, while tailored for kids, could also be watched and enjoyed equally by Mom, Dad and the rest of family. Parents could watch these shows with their kids and not feel embarrassed or develop a growing agitation towards having to sit through them. "Tweencoms", by contrast, are developed and written for (and possibly by) teenagers and pre-teens and most are guaranteed to drive any and all adults out of the room within minutes. With tweencoms, one has to be a tween in order to be entertained by them (of course, there is the "dirty old man" factor for shows starring underaged girls, but you don't want to attract just them).

[BartWinkle]

I agree with you a lot about TV Land-Home Improvement? Friends? AAAUUUGGGHHH! And also FX-Anybody remember Backchat on Sundays? Jeff Probst was awesome, but who was the female sidekick and whatever happened to her?

[Elven Moon]

*Cartoon Network whenever they started showing live-action stuff

Hmm, I think it was before that, but I can't exactly pinpoint when. I started to abandon the channel around the late 90s (only really tuning in for Toonami), and when Boomerang (which I don't get) came along and they moved away all their classics then I pretty much only watched it for the Futurama reruns or the Lupin III/Conan block, now I don't really watch it at all unless they've got on Scooby Doo or something.


*Disney Channel post 2002, when they stopped being a general audience channel (hence, the elimination of "Vault Disney") in favor of tween fare (which also came at the expense of animation)I agree. Back when I couldn't get the channel and they sometimes ran week long promos to get more customers (and in the early years when I finally did), they had all sorts of stuff. Babysitter's Club, My Little Pony Tales, Dumbo's Circus, old animated shorts (and specials like Disney's Halloween Treats), Disney vault movies and others like Kiki's Delivery Service, it goes on. There was pretty much something for everyone to like, even if you weren't a kid. Now it's like, if you don't like tween comedies you're out of luck.

TLC As far as I'm concerned, it's now The Baby Channel. Seriously, anytime I check the schedule it's always a Jon & Kate marathon or some Duggars special.

[Michael24]

I agree with you a lot about TV Land-Home Improvement? Friends? AAAUUUGGGHHH!

When did those appear on TVLand? I've never seen them. I'm still confused by George Lopez on Nick@Nite. I mean, Home Improvement I can understand, it was a popular series throughout the '90s and had been gone for a little under a decade when N@N picked it up. But George Lopez was barely a couple years old.


And also FX-Anybody remember Backchat on Sundays? Jeff Probst was awesome, but who was the female sidekick and whatever happened to her?Backchat was on every night, wasn't it? I seem to recall watching it during the week. I liked hearing the fan letters and always wanted to send my own, but I had no idea how to work the Internet back then to send emails. I remember Probst joking that their technology in those early days was so primitive, their computer (or whatever) couldn't make the @ sign and someone always had to draw it in when they'd show their email address. Haha!!

[Chris Sanders MSX]

Pretty much all the spin off channels, MTV 2, Toon Disney,TV Land(mentioned above) and things of that variety. They all eventually just become a mirror of the station they set out to deviate from.

MTV 2 now shows more TV shows than Music Videos, Toon Disney now no longer exclusively shows Disney cartoons and has since become a boy themed mirror of the disney channel.

I've never had Boomerang but I'm willing to bet the day I get it, it'll be full of original cartoons and live action shows with little to no Hanna-Barbera and the other reasons I used to love CN so much.

[All Star Blitz]

Disney/Toon Disney I would agree have gone down the crapper big time too. Granted, I almost never touched either network even when they WERE around (stupid, stupid, stupid), but just realizing that I almost totally shunned the networks when Ducktales, Darkwing Duck, TaleSpin, Gargoyles, etc. were in reruns... and then realizing far too late that Kim Possible and Brandy & Mr. Whiskers weren't nearly as bad as I had imagined them to be... then finding nothing but tweencoms out the wazoo, plus some Phineas and Ferb... Ugh. As someone else mentioned, these shows like Hannah Montana and Suite Life of Zack & Cody actually have decent ideas behind them, they're just executed as horribly (and inoffensively) as possible.

I think Nickelodeon went to crap sometime around 2003. It seems like sometime around that mark, they started saturating the network with Spongebob and FOP, and ignoring just about any cartoon made before 1999. Angry Beavers, Rocko, CatDog (yes, I liked CatDog), etc. just weren't appearing anymore. (I never paid much attention to the live action shows on Nick, and have no real memories of any outside Clarissa Explains It All, the first cast of All That, and Kenan & Kel.) And now they're doing tweencoms too, but at least theirs don't feel quite as vapid; iCarly is actually decent, but I wouldn't go out of my way for it.

Cartoon Network must have gone downhill for me at some point, because I remember abandoning the network maybe two or three years after we got it. There just weren't any interesting shows on anymore; no Johnny Bravo, Dexter's Laboratory, Powerpuff Girls, etc. Chowder is definitely a HUGE step in the right direction, but I'm still annoyed that CN, like so many other networks, is into the "show the programs five times a day or else" method that so many other networks are into.

I would mention TNN here, but that wasn't a "going downhill" so much as it was Viacom not wanting to have two country networks, so they kicked out ALL the music videos and made TNN a hot mess of 80s sitcoms, wrestling, and Mad TV. Then they gave it the Spike makeover.

[hobbyfan]

Backchat was on every night, wasn't it? I seem to recall watching it during the week. I liked hearing the fan letters and always wanted to send my own, but I had no idea how to work the Internet back then to send emails. I remember Probst joking that their technology in those early days was so primitive, their computer (or whatever) couldn't make the @ sign and someone always had to draw it in when they'd show their email address. Haha!!

Yes, it was on 7 nights a week.

[Silverstar]

I've never had Boomerang but I'm willing to bet the day I get it, it'll be full of original cartoons and live action shows with little to no Hanna-Barbera and the other reasons I used to love CN so much.

Unless Boomerang becomes ad-supported during that time, I doubt it. They've basically been the Hanna-Barbera Reruns Channel, lightly sprinkled with some 80's, 90's and 00's action cartoons and recycled Cartoon-Cartoons for years now. They'll stay that way as long as they remain ad-free and ratings don't matter to them.

[Chris Sanders MSX]

Unless Boomerang becomes ad-supported during that time, I doubt it. They've basically been the Hanna-Barbera Reruns Channel, lightly sprinkled with some 80's and 90's action cartoons and recycled Cartoon-Cartoons for years now. They'll stay that way as long as they remain ad-free and ratings don't matter to them.

I hope your right but the same could of been said about Toon Disney at one point. I'll say this, Nickelodeons Nick toon Channel is actually pretty good, despite the fact that it no longer airs any actual nick toons.

[Silverstar]

I hope your right but the same could of been said about Toon Disney at one point. I'll say this, Nickelodeons Nick toon Channel is actually pretty good, despite the fact that it no longer airs any actual nick toons.

Nicktoons Network isn't completely devoid of Nicktoons; some, like Ren & Stimpy, Fairly OddParents, Teenage Robot, Jimmy Neutron and of course SpongeBob still air sparodically throughout the schedule. The channel was nothing but canceled reruns back when it was the commercial-free Nicktoons TV; the changes didn't go into effect until after it became the commercial Nicktoons Network.

Same deal with Toon Disney; as soon as it became available to more homes and started becoming heavily ratings-conscious, that's when Jetix arrived on the scene and the Disney Afternoon shows started pulling a Houdini.

[Darklordavaitor]

Disney shouldn't be airing their tween stuff late at night, when all of the kiddies should be sleeping.
Which is why they save their more recent cartoons for late nights, and if you want my honest opinion, it's a pretty dumb thing to do, unless Disney really wants nothing to do with their cartoons that aren't Phineas & Ferb anymore.

You see, if it was my decision, Vault Disney would of never left the graveyard shift. As a kid who loved classic Disney lore, if I wasn't watching the Vault late at night, I'd be sneaking [adult swim] in, so I don't see how other kids would be different. I'd say that Disney should at least try to catch those nostalgics who'll try to catch the classic movies. cartoons, and TV shows, since it really does cost them nothing.

[TMC1982]

Hmm, I think it was before that, but I can't exactly pinpoint when. I started to abandon the channel around the late 90s (only really tuning in for Toonami), and when Boomerang (which I don't get) came along and they moved away all their classics then I pretty much only watched it for the Futurama reruns or the Lupin III/Conan block, now I don't really watch it at all unless they've got on Scooby Doo or something.

I agree. Back when I couldn't get the channel and they sometimes ran week long promos to get more customers (and in the early years when I finally did), they had all sorts of stuff. Babysitter's Club, My Little Pony Tales, Dumbo's Circus, old animated shorts (and specials like Disney's Halloween Treats), Disney vault movies and others like Kiki's Delivery Service, it goes on. There was pretty much something for everyone to like, even if you weren't a kid. Now it's like, if you don't like tween comedies you're out of luck.

TLC As far as I'm concerned, it's now The Baby Channel. Seriously, anytime I check the schedule it's always a Jon & Kate marathon or some Duggars special.

That's right, Disney Channel used to be a premium cable service. They became a basic service around 1997, which was around the time that they divided their schedule up as "Playhouse Disney" (for preschoolers), "Zoog Disney" (for tweens), and "Vault Disney" (for adults).

[Prof Ultimate]

AMC (American Movie Classics). I believe this might still be owned by Cablevision (the Dolan family). They finally realized they would never pass Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in the ratings, and had to make a move to survive. Picking up more modern films was a step in that direction, though the choices they've made (Catwoman?) are questionable at best, just like the ownership when it comes to NYC sports. A pity, then, that Remember WENN is not available anywhere, not even on DVD.

I too lament the passing of original recipe AMC, but they literally had the rug pulled out from under them. After making a ratings and financial success out of creating a non ad supported basic cable channel (their profits came soley from monthly carriage fees charged to cable systems), others coveted that success, namely, Turner Broadcasting and NewsCorp-parent of Fox. AMC had tons of classic films belonging to both Turner and Fox under long term licenses, and when the contracts came up for renewal, both companies raised the prices of the packages beyond AMC's ability to pay for them. Their goal, free up those movies for their own channels, TCM and Fox Movie Channel. AMC went to cable operators and floated a hike in the monthly fee to cover the increase, but the cable ops-many owning stock in Turner at the time (Ted Turner sold stock in TBS to many of the large cable outfits when he bought MGM), weren't high on the idea, leaving AMC to figure out a way to survive without the classic films they built their success on. They had no choice but to start accepting ads, first playing them between showings of films.
Then they ran into their next problem-advertisers weren't willing to pay a decent price for ads during older b/w movies. Which meant having to go after cheaper, more recent films the advertisers would make buys in. :sad: And turning into a full ad supported network....:mad:

Which has brought us to where they are now. I'm happy they're doing well, even with the new focus-success they say, is the best revenge, but the changeover wasn't a desired intent on their part.

Edit-an playing Catwoman is NOT acceptable, no matter how desparate you are! Death Wish and Chuck Norris, I can look the other way. But not for THAT cat-trastrophe! :D

[SAMaine]

Subjective Trope. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SubjectiveTropes?from=Main.SubjectiveTrope)

No, it isn't. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NetworkDecay)

[Zorak Masaki]

The only good things about BET (imo of course) were the reruns of In Living Color and Diffrent Strokes. Its a shame they dropped those.

[EinBebop]

It's a shame that when many of the networks try a new direction, that so often they feel they have to justify themselves by killing everything related to the old direction rather than trying to establish a variety.

[Aces 21]

I was trying to find some information on the whole "tween" scene, and I thought that these two articles were interesting.

These articles are a bit old though, and some of what the articles state has probably been said before on the forums.


http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060424&slug=tweentv24

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2007-03-27-kids-TV-cover_N.htm

[Desensitized]

When did those appear on TVLand? I've never seen them. I'm still confused by George Lopez on Nick@Nite. I mean, Home Improvement I can understand, it was a popular series throughout the '90s and had been gone for a little under a decade when N@N picked it up. But George Lopez was barely a couple years old.Yeah, that's just odd. I was really enjoying Nick At Nite, with Roseanne, Fresh Prince, Home Improvement and such. George Lopez makes no sense at all in that context. Not to mention, I just don't like it. :p

I have to agree with Comedy Central, though. Since South Park went in reruns, I haven't even turned into the station. It's such a shame, because it used to be so good.

[O-chan]

Okay I've seen the opinions but I thought I'd post the ones that were most violatile IMO:

Disney Channel: When I was a kid (and I 29 now) Disney Channel was a kind of directational expirement in what would appeal to the Disney demographic and I liked it when they showed stuff like Brave Little Toaster, Care Bears the Move, My Little Pony the Movie, Raggedy Ann and Andy's Musical Adventure. Stuff from the Disney vault, previews of Disney Afternoon shows, etc etc etc... Basically Disney made the same mistake NBC made when they killed cartoons and that was giving into the tween demographic.

MTV: There are two things that attributed to MTV's downfall. Once Daria ended and once Real World went past Season 6. Then they became the shallow let's show very few music videos and give people an excuse to be stupid network.

Cartoon Network: To me, when the anime industry started to decline CN chose a side and that was to screw over anime. I understood that they would let go of Toonami and such but to drop Naruto and let Adult Swim suffer like they did in the last year was just a huge slap in the face.

I could go more into this but this covers my general thoughts.

O-chan

[Kitschensyngk]

Actually at the beginning there was only one anime so technically it's out of balance.

Then came three hours of it on Saturdays in '02, two hours every weeknight in '03, then half of the weeknight lineup AND all of Saturday in '04. THERE was the balance.

[TMC1982]

Yeah, that's just odd. I was really enjoying Nick At Nite, with Roseanne, Fresh Prince, Home Improvement and such. George Lopez makes no sense at all in that context. Not to mention, I just don't like it. :p

I have to agree with Comedy Central, though. Since South Park went in reruns, I haven't even turned into the station. It's such a shame, because it used to be so good.

Nick at Nite should be a contemporary version of TV Land, meaning that the shows that they air should at least, be 20 years old. Comedy Central pre-"South Park" seems kind of like a form of ancient history. I vaguely recall Comedy Central when all that they really had going for themselves was "MST3K", "SNL" reruns (and unlike E!, Comedy Central actually showed episodes before 1998), and "Politically Incorrect".