Discussion: Cartoon Network Embraces Live-Action Programming

[The Huntsman]

I know the folks are going to be disappointed, but it’s being reported that Cartoon Network has more than a dozen live-action projects in development (http://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSTRE50F17220090116). If it’s any consolation, the executives insist that they’re still going to focus heavily on animation.

...The channel has more than a dozen projects in development, among them work from writers David Titcher ("The Librarian"), Paul Dini ("Lost") and Mike Werb ("Face/Off," "The Mask"). Chief content officer Rob Sorcher said that the network might ready pilots of three of the projects this year, then launch a night of live-action programing sometime in 2010...

...Even with all the live-action development, Cartoon Network is not pulling back on animation. "This does not replace that in any way," Sorcher said. "This is a complement, an expansion."...

The Hollywood Reporter has more information on the works in progress. (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i2079648bd224e2c8e081439c99c2d14b)

[Jeff Harris]

Yeah. They've been "embracing" live-action since '06. Guess Out of Jimmy's Head taught them nothing. Pity.

Check out what Variety has to say too (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117998659.html?categoryId=14&cs=1).

*sigh*

[D Dubbs]

WOW. That's a lot of live-action series in development.


Chief content officer Rob Sorcher said that the network could possibly go to pilot with three of the projects this year, then launch a night of live-action programming sometime in 2010.

"That would absolutely be a win for us," Sorcher said Thursday.And an absolute loss for Toon Zone. :sweat:

[Martianinvader]

It says the 15 they're considering are all pilots. PY-LUTZ. They specifically mention only three will make the final cut.

And yet....do they have more than three cartoons in development as well?

[Old Guy]

I saw Paul Dini's name. So...what's the big deal?! I've said this a million times...Ted Turner screwed up when he named the channel Cartoon Network. I guess he never expected people to take it so literal. People...for the last time...CN is a KIDS channels. Not a cartoon channel. And kids, like everyone else, enjoy both live action and animation. So they will air both.

[Martianinvader]

I saw Paul Dini's name. So...what's the big deal?! I've said this a million times...Ted Turner screwed up when he named the channel Cartoon Network. I guess he never expected people to take it so literal. People...for the last time...CN is a KIDS channels. Not a cartoon channel. And kids, like everyone else, enjoy both live action and animation. So they will air both.
It wasn't originally a children's channel, it was a channel for lovers of animation. This isn't debatable. It was originally premium and HAD to appeal to adults.

[Old Guy]

It wasn't originally a children's channel, it was a channel for lovers of animation. This isn't debatable. It was originally premium and HAD to appeal to adults.

CN was originally a way for Turner to air all the Hanna-Barbera and Looney Tunes that didn't fit into the TNT and TBS schedule. Secondly, CN wouldn't be the first channel to evolve and include other things. HBO was originally a movie only channel, but do people complain cause they started airing TV shows or sporting events? CN is in competition with Nick and Disney. So they gotta do what they gotta do. And as long as the shows are good there's no reason to complain. It's like say, "why is HBO airing the Sopranos? Stick to movies, darn it!" If it's good it's good. End of story. And with people like Paul Dini having development deals I don't see the need to feak out.

[Antiyonder]

CN was originally a way for Turner to air all the Hanna-Barbera and Looney Tunes that didn't fit into the TNT and TBS schedule. Secondly, CN wouldn't be the first channel to evolve and include other things. HBO was originally a movie only channel, but do people complain cause they started airing TV shows or sporting events? CN is in competition with Nick and Disney. So they gotta do what they gotta do. And as long as the shows are good there's no reason to complain. It's like say, "why is HBO airing the Sopranos? Stick to movies, darn it!" If it's good it's good. End of story. And with people like Paul Dini having development deals I don't see the need to feak out.

Out Of Jimmy's Head proves that copying the competition isn't always the best way to compete.

There are other factors that give Nick and Disney an edge.

1. Disney has been around for ages as a whole, with the Disney Channel being around since the 80s.

2. Nickelodeon has also been around for quite a bit as well.

3. Nickelodeon and The Disney Channel are both advertised on other channels with in their respective corporation, whereas Cartoon Network is not.

4. Analogy: There are two entertainment families. Viacom and Warner Bros. Viacom loves and supports their boy Nickelodeon, whereas Warner Bros neglects Cartoon Network. At the very least, WB acquisitions should be free for them to air on the network as well as properties within the family (DC Comic shows). Cause frankly, the family the reigns supreme are the ones who are united, not the ones who take the every man for himself mentality.


And unlike most networks that haven't experienced success under their original format, CN saw 12 years of success before changing their approach was even considered.

Plus another factor limiting the network's success is the execs themselves. In the early years, the channel was headed by folks who shared the same appreciation for the medium that we do. Prior to 2008, the network was ran by folks who think that cartoons should only be viewed by kids. And naturally, lack of enthusiam in the business hurts the chances of success.

[Sketch]

Man... more live action pilots? Just when things were looking sensible again. Whatever...

[Old Guy]

Out Of Jimmy's Head proves that copying the competition isn't always the best way to compete.

They have a development deal with Paul Dini, so obviously they learned their lesson.


4. Analogy: There are two entertainment families. Viacom and Warner Bros. Viacom loves and supports their boy Nickelodeon, whereas Warner Bros neglects Cartoon Network. At the very least, WB acquisitions should be free for them to air on the network as well as properties within the family (DC Comic shows). Cause frankly, the family the reigns supreme are the ones who are united, not the ones who take the every man for himself mentality.


I'll give you that.

And unlike most networks that haven't experienced success under their original format, CN saw 12 years of success before changing their approach was even considered.

Nick and Disney were the same. Nick started in the `70s and was basically a channel of old and foreign shows till the `90s when it started making its own stuff. Disney Channel was a channel of old and new tv shows and movies till becoming the tween sitcom channel during this decade.

[Jave]

It says the 15 they're considering are all pilots. PY-LUTZ. They specifically mention only three will make the final cut.Read carefully. They said there a dozen projects and three pilots will be made THIS year. The other projects may still come out on subsequent years, specially since they plan a live-action programming block on 2010.

Man, what a disappointment.

[Antiyonder]

They have a development deal with Paul Dini, so obviously they learned their lesson.



I'll give you that.



Nick and Disney were the same. Nick started in the `70s and was basically a channel of old and foreign shows till the `90s when it started making its own stuff. Disney Channel was a channel of old and new tv shows and movies till becoming the tween sitcom channel during this decade.

Except their networks have a name which can't be so easily contradicted by their programs. Whereas CN's name specifies it's program content more. Even then, Nick was simply a kids network from day one and still is a kid's network.

To go into some more factors:
5. As edited in my previous post, CN's problem in 2006-2007 were having execs who showed no fondness for the medium. Rather than uping the quality of the medium, they resort to using another medium altogether. And while the current execs are doing better in that aspect, they fail to understand that they need to show more enthusiam than their predecessors.

6. The network heads let their vanity get in the way of their work. Now I can understand and respect when they remove an old show due to poor ratings or making room for another show, but taking an older show off the air just to establish that some new people are running the network is pathetic. Taking off My Gym Partner's A Monkey and Squirrel Boy are sensible, but Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends and Ed Edd & Eddy is puzzling.

Analogy #2 while were discussing the matter: The three networks in particular are like student sterotypes. Nickeldeon is the cool kid that everybody wants to be like. Disney is the whole kid that conforms to rules and standards. Cartoon Network was once the unique individual who didn't buckle down to peer pressure, and dared to make it's own rules.

Do you believe that a student should give up their individuality to get accepted by the other kids?

[MegaJ]

And the cancellation of Out of Jimmy's Head left me with so much hope. I guess this is something I am just going to have to accept with CN trying to be just like Nick and Disney. CN has gotten better, in any case. As for adult swim...

[Old Guy]

Except their networks have a name which can't be so easily contradicted by their programs. Whereas CN's name specifies it's program content more.

AMC (American MOVIE Classics) airs Mad Men, but do people complain? Nope. Like I said...if it's good it's good. Jimmy's Head may have sucked or whatever. I never saw it. But if they are able to make something good then what's the big deal? It's beats watching a Johnny Test marathon.

[Antiyonder]

AMC (American MOVIE Classics) airs Mad Men, but do people complain? Nope. Like I said...if it's good it's good. Jimmy's Head may have sucked or whatever. I never saw it. But if they are able to make something good then what's the big deal? It's beats watching a Johnny Test marathon.

Because there are plenty of alternatives for live action or movies on basic cable if one particular channel doesn't suit your needs. Let's look at the alternatives for fans of animation:

Fox: A small portion on Sunday evenings.
CW: Only on Saturdays
Disney Channel: Only an hour during the day with the rest being on at night.
Comedy Central: Only three animation slots.
Sci-Fi: Mondays only and meager portion at that.
CBS: An hour at the most on weekdays and they have shows that already air on other networks.
Toon Disney: The only other animation (close to being common) based network which is soon going to change it's name and format entirely. And even then they've already aired live action.

Nickelodeon is the only other basic cable channel, but of course, they air a limited number of titles.

Now if:
1. Other networks were to increase the animation intake or...
2. Nicktoons, Boomerang and The Funimation Channel were all readily available...

I wouldn't mind so much about CN's live action usage. Yes even if the show is good, I would still be ticked. I mean what's the point of tuning into Cartoon Network when live action is frequently on other channels?

They don't need live action to give the network variety, they just need to add more titles to their network and explore other genres aside from the small amount of action they do have. It's basically lack of genre (types of story) which makes the network redundant, not the medium.

I mean, they could do a mystery themed cartoon, a documentary hosted by a cartoon character. Even another animation/live action hybrid (One that done with people who appreciate animation).

[Old Guy]

I think there's plenty of animation out there, but too much hate as well.

Typical complains:
Simpsons hasn't been funny in years.
Family Guy sucks.
American Dad sucks.
Spongebob hasn't been funny lately.
Fairly Oddparents sucks
Who cares about Barnyard
Johnny Test is the worst show in the history of animation
and the list goes on...

So...either you guys are too picky or everything does suck and companies/networks need to start making better cartoons.

[Antiyonder]

I think there's plenty of animation out there, but too much hate as well.

Typical complains:
Simpsons hasn't been funny in years.
Family Guy sucks.
American Dad sucks.
Spongebob hasn't been funny lately.
Fairly Oddparents sucks
Who cares about Barnyard
Johnny Test is the worst show in the history of animation
and the list goes on...

So...either you guys are too picky or everything does suck and companies/networks need to start making better cartoons.

At least acknowledge my response. Was their any flaw in my previous post?

[Old Guy]

At least acknowledge my response. Was their any flaw in my previous post?

I did acknowledge it. I said that I felt like there was plenty of cartoons. You have to remember that animation is a slower process. You can't have three channels airing cartoons 24/7. There just wouldn't be enough. You need to balance things with live-action.

However, I will agree that channels like Boomerang are failing with their task. They need to add more shows and have more rotation.

[Antiyonder]

I did acknowledge it. I said that I felt like there was plenty of cartoons.

Actually the majority of hours that are dedicated to animation on the networks in particular are dedicated to the same show.

You have to remember that animation is a slower process. You can't have three channels airing cartoons 24/7. There just wouldn't be enough. You need to balance things with live-action.

However, I will agree that channels like Boomerang are failing with their task. They need to add more shows and have more rotation.

There's plenty of older cartoons in the respective companies vault to air. Now I'm not suggesting that the animation networks are overran by classics, but enough so that each timeslot isn't a repeat of the same show. Doing so not only means lack of repeats, but the current show won't be so overplayed and won't burn out so fast.

The main problem is that like the audience members who prefer the nostalgic line up, the execs of CN, Toon Disney and Nicktoons takes their stance to the extreme.

[Old Guy]

There's plenty of older cartoons in the respective companies vault to air. Now I'm not suggesting that the animation networks are overran by classics, but enough so that each timeslot isn't a repeat of the same show. Doing so not only means lack of repeats, but the current show won't be so overplayed and won't burn out so fast.

The main problem is that like the audience members who prefer the nostalgic line up, the execs of CN, Toon Disney and Nicktoons takes their stance to the extreme.

Times have changed. Companies have gotten greedier. In the early days it was fine to balance the old and new but the channels these days want to air as many new stuff as possible so they could sell as many merchandise as possible. Bugs Bunny isn't gonna sell as well as Spongebob. Kids are always gonna prefer "their" cartoons. And people complain about Spongebob being on too much but the reason they do this is cause kids don't all watch TV at the same time. There's kids who come home straight from school. There's kids who have after school activities. Then, there's the competition to consider. Kids have internet and video games as well. So, they may not watch cartoons when they come home per say. They may leave it for later in the evening for when they're eating dinner or whatever. So...by airing Spongebob so much Nick is covering all the bases.

So...we're gonna have to settle for channels like Boomerang and hope for the best.

[Antiyonder]

Bugs Bunny isn't gonna sell as well as Spongebob. Kids are always gonna prefer "their" cartoons.

But prefering one thing doesn't mean the kid hates the alternate. It's just means higher enjoyment.

As for our cartoons sterotypically speaking:
- Scooby Doo
- Tom & Jerry
- Courage The Cowardly Dog
- Timon And Pumbaa
- Spider-Man And His Amazing Friends

Seem to do fine enough on either airing constantly or being on the network for quite awhile before being pulled. Looney Tunes at least brought more ratings than usual to CN.

The reason as to why reruns have failed, Cartoon Network chose to experiment with a cartoon that didn't do to well when it was new (SWAT Kats) as opposed to a classic that lasted for quite awhile (The Flintstones, Thundercats, G.I.Joe). Shows that made it up past 65 episodes are the way to go retro (that or at least a show that's part of a huge franchise).

The problem isn't so much the increased greed but that their cautious approach borders on paranoia.

And people complain about Spongebob being on too much but the reason they do this is cause kids don't all watch TV at the same time.

But surely there's a particular timeslot that could work for all kids or at least the majority.

There's kids who come home straight from school. There's kids who have after school activities. Then, there's the competition to consider. Kids have internet and video games as well. So, they may not watch cartoons when they come home per say. They may leave it for later in the evening for when they're eating dinner or whatever. So...by airing Spongebob so much Nick is covering all the bases.

So...we're gonna have to settle for channels like Boomerang and hope for the best.

Personally, I don't think that cartoons will ever reign supreme, but that they could at least be near equals of the competition if they upped the diversity.

Aside from the lack of titles mentioned earlier, a good portion of the decade was generally featuring cartoons of kids in school. When one particular choice of entertainment lacks variety, of course it's going to fail. To be fair, CN is improving to a degree so that each show even with a common trait isn't a copycat, but frankly they should give diversity more of a chance before they approach more live action.

Another factor is how animation is viewed in society. Kids today are in a hurry to grow up. And sterotypically speaking, part of growing up is getting rid of childish hobbies. So unless a cartoon:

1. Is high on adult content or...
2. Is popular...
3. Is part of a franchise...

Then kids are going to avoid watching to make themselves feel mature.

Infact that's why Cartoon Network succeeded in the earlier years. The attitude of the execs which carried into their work was that watching cartoons are cool. Whereas the previous ones (2006-2007) feel like cartoons are for kids and that anyone over 13 watching them should feel ashamed. So rather than resorting to live action, you need to find a way to convince the audience that animation is a legitamite medium that's cool to watch.

[John Dorian]

Oh Writer's Strike, where are you?

[Comics_the_QB]

Wow. Things were looking up. CN was getting better!

*cries* :crying:

[J'onn J'onzz]

I can't fathom why anyone would support this move. This would be like if Comedy Central aired Shindler's List. Yeah, it's good, but so what? Put it on another channel. CN is a channel specifically made for ANIMATION. I don't understand why this is difficult to understand. It was made as a channel which aired exclusively ANIMATION. Even Out of Jimmy's Head had cartoons in it. This is just unexcusable. Live action on an animation network simply does not work.

[TheTerror]

This is being talked about over in the CN board, but I will toss in my $.02 here as well. I really think this is a bad move and a big step backwards if any of these pilots get approved for a series, and why does CN need liva action anyway? They are CARTOON NETWORK, and the only ALL cartoons channel available to basicly everyone with cable without having to demand or to buy an expensive package to get Boomarang or something. It's just a stupid move.

[Blackstar]

I can't fathom why anyone would support this move. This would be like if Comedy Central aired Shindler's List. Yeah, it's good, but so what? Put it on another channel. CN is a channel specifically made for ANIMATION. I don't understand why this is difficult to understand. It was made as a channel which aired exclusively ANIMATION. Even Out of Jimmy's Head had cartoons in it. This is just unexcusable. Live action on an animation network simply does not work.

:^: This. I understand that live action has it's place, but that place should not be on CARTOON Network. I don't understand why Turner can't just put the live action boy-centric adventure crap on another channel? Or even create a new channel just for this boys' action stuff? Non animated programming on Cartoon Network is not a good idea. It never was and unless Turner changes the channel's name to something more general, it never will be. Of course, by 2010, Turner may not even be calling the channel Cartoon Network anymore, in which case, I wonder if the content will even matter, as many of the hardcore CN fans will have long since abandoened the channel by such time.

What really burns me about this is that all of these new pilots are action oriented crud aimed at boys. I guess comedy is no longer a consideration.

[ShadowGUN]

Oh Writer's Strike, where are you?

How about an Actor's Strike (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=220343&page=9)?

Well they sure mess up last year success pretty fast. let hope none of the pilots make it past being just pilots.

[PC!]

If we have to put up with live action shows on the network, I really hope they bunch them all together in one block of evil instead of spreading them all throughout the network.

[TheTerror]

If we have to put up with live action shows on the network, I really hope they bunch them all together in one block of evil instead of spreading them all throughout the network.

That would be best if this live stuff has to happen, just plunk it all onto one block and that way its only a short time all at once we dont have to watch instead of having to change the channel every few hours which would be annoying.

[Hobbes829]

I saw Paul Dini's name. So...what's the big deal?! I've said this a million times...Ted Turner screwed up when he named the channel Cartoon Network. I guess he never expected people to take it so literal. People...for the last time...CN is a KIDS channels. Not a cartoon channel. And kids, like everyone else, enjoy both live action and animation. So they will air both.
Yes it is... it's called CARTOON NETWORK for a reason.

[RSNaco]

Forget this, I'm moving to Canada. Between waiting forever for Total Drama Action and this potential live-action flood, Teletoon is a much better network for animation than CN these days.

[Brandon Pierce]

I can't fathom why anyone would support this move. This would be like if Comedy Central aired Shindler's List. Yeah, it's good, but so what? Put it on another channel. CN is a channel specifically made for ANIMATION. I don't understand why this is difficult to understand. It was made as a channel which aired exclusively ANIMATION. Even Out of Jimmy's Head had cartoons in it. This is just unexcusable. Live action on an animation network simply does not work.
I remember, a few years ago, Comedy Central ran "Ghost". You tell me how many funny moments are in that film?

[BartWinkle]

I remember, a few years ago, Comedy Central ran "Ghost". You tell me how many funny moments are in that film?
Likewise, can you imagine Lifetime showing "Private Parts" with Howard Stern? Then again, they've shown "Goodfellas", and from what I've read in other forums, it is hardly a female-oriented film.

[Mesousa]

Please, let's not blame CN for this.

It's the viewers fault. Watching crap from Nick and Disney does that to them.

Wait, make that 3 things.

[Master Toon]

Please, let's not blame CN for this.

It's the viewers fault. Watching crap from Nick and Disney does that to them.

Wait, make that 3 things.

You can't blame kids for watching what they like. I watched Nick and Disney as a kid and CN never gave me live action. They always gave me cartoons.

This is such a downer, 6teen and Total Drama Island were the only things keeping me watching CN but now I may just stop watching it all together.

As for the little debate people are having, I'd like to say that despite who the channel is for, they should always air cartoons.

I'm sad. :(

[Antiyonder]

Please, let's not blame CN for this.

It's the viewers fault. Watching crap from Nick and Disney does that to them.

Wait, make that 3 things.

The problem is that there are other factors which give Disney and Nick superiority over CN. Thus, I blame the heads of CN for not doing their research and assuming that live action will be the holy messiah which cleanses all of their sins.

Look at post 8 on here for said reasons.

[Blackstar]

As I see it, the problem is that even after changing managements, the execs at Cartoon Network still have this idee fixee that live action programs are what's going to miraculously take the network out of 3rd place, but the shows that air on the network still need to be above par. If they suck, it's not going to matter if the new shows are live action or not, they'll still bomb.

Although as I type this, I realize that new animation is a crap shoot. Animated programs take longer and are more expensive to produce than live action shows. i suppose that CN believes that the increased audiences should be able to make for the reduced rates, or something similar.

[Mesousa]

Look at post 8 on here for said reasons.

So is Warner to blame?

Also, I got a better idea:

WHY DON'T WE JUST IGNORE THE LIVE ACTION CRAP?!

Sorry, but I don't like people immediately blaming CN for this.

[Antiyonder]

So is Warner to blame.

Also, I got a better idea:

WHY DON'T WE JUST IGNORE THE LIVE ACTION CRAP?!

Sorry, but I don't people immediately blaming CN for this.

My point is that CN assumes that changing their medium will give them a quick fix when there are other factors which keep them from competing.

They are at fault for being ignorant, but yeah WB does share in the blame.

[Old Guy]

It was made as a channel which aired exclusively ANIMATION.

It wasn't. CN was created so Turner could air all the H-B and Looney Tunes it owned instead of just relying on blocks on TNT and TBS. The fact is that CN is a KIDS channel. Hence why it is in competition with Nick and Disney. And kids, like everyone else, enjoy both live action and animation. So they want to air both.

But...whatever...Turner should just rename the channel. Call it TKS (Turner Kids Station) or something like that.

[macattack]

You know what, I give up. I'm just going to stop watching CN other than Clone Wars once Naruto is stopped 12 episodes before its conclusion next week, and perhaps tune in to Chowder and TDA when they start up with new episodes. AS will be dead to me come May when Code Geass R2 ends unless the new Metal and Boondock seasons are good.

I still had hope CN would become a better network with all of the new suits, but now, it's apparent they just want to rush headlong into the self-destruction the previous suits were embracing.

I'm done with this.

[Blackstar]

I'll continue to watch Chowder, The Secret Saturdays and Flapjack when they have new episodes to air. The shows that I don't like, I ignore, so live action or not, I'm going to continue to treat CN the way that I treat every other channel.

[Antiyonder]

It wasn't. CN was created so Turner could air all the H-B and Looney Tunes it owned instead of just relying on blocks on TNT and TBS. The fact is that CN is a KIDS channel. Hence why it is in competition with Nick and Disney. And kids, like everyone else, enjoy both live action and animation. So they want to air both.

If that were the case they would have used the name Turner Kids sooner. No reason that they couldn't.

[Hobbes829]

It wasn't. CN was created so Turner could air all the H-B and Looney Tunes it owned instead of just relying on blocks on TNT and TBS. The fact is that CN is a KIDS channel. Hence why it is in competition with Nick and Disney. And kids, like everyone else, enjoy both live action and animation. So they want to air both.

But...whatever...Turner should just rename the channel. Call it TKS (Turner Kids Station) or something like that.
Who cares why it was created? Today's tv market has so many niches it was good to have a network for all cartoons. It's called CARTOON NETWORK.

[Jave]

It wasn't. CN was created so Turner could air all the H-B and Looney Tunes it owned instead of just relying on blocks on TNT and TBS. The fact is that CN is a KIDS channel. Hence why it is in competition with Nick and Disney. And kids, like everyone else, enjoy both live action and animation. So they want to air both.Yes it was. The original CN advertised itself as an "All Animation, All The Time" network. There was absolutely nothing to suggest they'll ever air live-action. None at all.

People also seem to forget that in the old days CN aired "Wait 'Til Your Father Gets Home", which was a show most definitely aimed at an adult audience. "Late Night Black & White" and "Toonheads" also aired some very risque stuff among their episodes, like a few Betty Boop shorts and several WWII cartoons. They were definitely aimed at a more animation-enthusiast audience rather than the average kid. This is FACT.

If Turner did create CN as a kids-only network, then they lied in their advertising all the time.

[Old Guy]

If that were the case they would have used the name Turner Kids sooner. No reason that they couldn't.

Maybe because it wasn't till now that people started freaking out over live-action.

Who cares why it was created? Today's tv market has so many niches it was good to have a network for all cartoons. It's called CARTOON NETWORK.

A real animation-only channel would need something for all ages. CN has always been kids-oriented (with a few tween/teen stuff) till late night when it airs adult programming. In other words...CN is a kids channel first and foremost. And kids like live-action as well. And CN has bills to pay and we're in a crappy economy. So...you can't blame them.

Yes it was. The original CN advertised itself as an "All Animation, All The Time" network. There was absolutely nothing to suggest they'll ever air live-action. None at all.

Isn't that like TNT saying "we know drama" and airing something like Spider-Man every now and then.

People also seem to forget that in the old days CN aired "Wait 'Til Your Father Gets Home", which was a show most definitely aimed at an adult audience. "Late Night Black & White" and "Toonheads" also aired some very risque stuff among their episodes, like a few Betty Boop shorts and several WWII cartoons. They were definitely aimed at a more animation-enthusiast audience rather than the average kid. This is FACT.

How is that any different from Nick and Disney? Nick, Disney, and CN follow the same formula. Kids shows till 10 or 11pm and then adult programming. Nick through it's Nick at Nite block has aired shows like All in the Family. Disney Channel used to have the Vault Disney block which aired all sorts of stuff for the older crowd. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a kids channel first and foremost.

[creativerealms]

Improving is a way to learn their lession. Out of Jimmy's head was not horrible because it was live action it was horrible because it was a crappy show and would have been just as bad animated. And they do have some big names for some of those pilots, who knows the three wins might be very good.

Yeah I don't want live action on Cartoon Network but Out of Jimmy's head did not suck soley because it was Live action.

[Jayngfet]

So, this is the point where the execs are no longer heralded as the best thing in the last decade. I've been saying for a while that these execs weren't great, but oh no you people were all defensive of them when they gave you a couple of pre made tracks and staying up til only 1am to see anime one night of the week.

I honestly don't know why I'm watching this channel any more, I seriously think I may be a masochist.

[Racattack!Force]

What all this live-action development doesn't mean is that Cartoon Network is pulling back on animation. "This does not replace that in any way," Sorcher said. "This is a complement, an expansion."

I just have to say one thing to you Mr. Sorcher. Okay, maybe a few things. You guys are Cartoon Network, the only channel that shows a great majority of cartoons. I watch the channel FOR CARTOONS, everyone I know watches it FOR CARTOONS. Live-action shouldn't come on the channel. But if you guys truly feel that you need some to stay in the game, just remember this...it's a risky gamble that can really harm what the entire network is based on: ANIMATION. So please, really think this through and keep the channel at least 85% animation.

Anyway...I can see why they are doing this. :sweat: But some of those are just live-action versions of their current animated series. :sweat:

[Hobbes829]

A real animation-only channel would need something for all ages. CN has always been kids-oriented (with a few tween/teen stuff) till late night when it airs adult programming. In other words...CN is a kids channel first and foremost. And kids like live-action as well. And CN has bills to pay and we're in a crappy economy. So...you can't blame them.

They started airing live action long before this recession. Kids may like live action, but the purpose of the network was to air cartoons. If they want something else, then they can change the channel. Who cares who's watching, so long as they're watching? There are so many channels out there that cater to niche markets it only makes sense that one caters to cartoon lovers.

If it was really having difficulty paying the bills, then change the name of the network.

[Old Guy]

There are so many channels out there that cater to niche markets it only makes sense that one caters to cartoon lovers.

But like I said...as a cartoon-only channel it sucks. CN is and has always been mostly a kids channel. I think a real animation-only channel would try its best to be more rounded. Instead of giving us Johnny Test marathons. So, that's why I'm not freaking out about this. I never really saw CN as an animation channel per say. It's a kids channel to me and it's doing its best to compete with Nick and Disney.

But you're right. Animation lovers should have their own channel but one that has something for everybody. I know there's a lot of underaged people here but I'm 21 and if you think about it...aside from Adult Swim...nothing on CN is made for my age group. Even Total Drama Island is technically for 9-14 year olds. Don't you think a real animation lovers channel would fix that problem without relying on the after hours?

Like I said...CN is and has always been a kids channel.

[Racattack!Force]

You know what? I don't really see the problem. Very few pilots actually make it past that stage to become series. And all the live-action that is picked-up is going to be on a little block in 2010. A majority of the network will still be animation, keeping to their namesake. They don't advertise them themselves as an all-animation channel anymore, they advertise themselves as a kids channel. A "Best Place for Cartoons" at the most. :shrug: The name Cartoon Network implies that they air a bunch of cartoons, and they still do that. :shrug:

[Jave]

How is that any different from Nick and Disney? Nick, Disney, and CN follow the same formula. Kids shows till 10 or 11pm and then adult programming. Nick through it's Nick at Nite block has aired shows like All in the Family. Disney Channel used to have the Vault Disney block which aired all sorts of stuff for the older crowd. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a kids channel first and foremost.The big difference is that Cartoon Network still called itself Cartoon Network while airing these adult oriented shows. You're also assuming all of them aired late at night. "Wait 'Til..." aired on the afternoons for a while, and on primetime during another time. "Toonheads" also aired on primetime.

I honestly have no idea what is CN trying to do with the network now. Maybe they should change the name so they can stop lying to their audience once and for all so they can peacefully live in their own bizarro world were companies actually succeed by imitating others.

Bottom Line: CN isn't what it used to be, and now they don't even seem to know what they want.

[Raidon Makoto]

This doesn't matter to me. Cartoon Network has been dead to me since September 20th... What is sad is that they've roped Paul Dini into this.

[Comics_the_QB]

Okay, I can understand their reasoning, but I still think it's a bad idea. I think they will try to hard and it'll crash & burn just like OoJH...

I am so feedbacking Cartoon Network everyday until the shows possibly premiere.

[Old Guy]

all the live-action that is picked-up is going to be on a little block in 2010. A majority of the network will still be animation, keeping to their namesake.

BUT if one of those live-action shows becomes a big hit for the channel they'll start airing it outside the block. Just saying...

[Old Guy]

"Wait 'Til..." aired on the afternoons for a while, and on primetime during another time. "Toonheads" also aired on primetime.

Yea, dude, but we're talking about TWO shows. Everything else was kid-friendly. So...in conclusion...CN is and has always been a kids channel. Two shows is not enough to make a difference.

So, if you guys want a real animation-lovers channel then demand one. CN certainly isn't one. It's simply a kids/family-friendly channel. No different than Nick and Disney.

[Racattack!Force]

BUT if one of those live-action shows becomes a big hit for the channel they'll start airing it outside the block. Just saying...That sucks, just I can always ignore it if I don't like it. :shrug:

[Old Guy]

That sucks, just I can always ignore it if I don't like it. :shrug:

But let's be realistic for a second. There's no way you've enjoyed every single show CN has ever aired. So, ignoring a live-action show would be no different than ignoring a crappy cartoon. So...as long as CN continues to air cartoons I don't see what the big deal is. In a way I'd rather have a decent live-action show than a bad cartoon. Just saying...

[Raidon Makoto]

Yea, dude, but we're talking about TWO shows. Everything else was kid-friendly. So...in conclusion...CN is and has always been a kids channel. Two shows is not enough to make a difference.
You're discounting Toonami: The Midnight Run and the early days of Adult Swim when it was still a block on Cartoon Network. Cartoon Network is an animation channel, and it is what taught a lot of us that animation is for adults too.

And, I just came up with an analogy for this. CN airing live-action is like Women's Entertainment airing The Man Show.

[Racattack!Force]

But let's be realistic for a second. There's no way you've enjoyed every single show CN has ever aired. So, ignoring a live-action show would be no different than ignoring a crappy cartoon. So...as long as CN continues to air cartoons I don't see what the big deal is. In a way I'd rather have a decent live-action show than a bad cartoon. Just saying...I said if I don't like it. If I like the show, I'll watch it, no matter what the name of the channel is. :sweat:

[Hobbes829]

But like I said...as a cartoon-only channel it sucks. CN is and has always been mostly a kids channel. I think a real animation-only channel would try its best to be more rounded. Instead of giving us Johnny Test marathons. So, that's why I'm not freaking out about this. I never really saw CN as an animation channel per say. It's a kids channel to me and it's doing its best to compete with Nick and Disney.

But you're right. Animation lovers should have their own channel but one that has something for everybody. I know there's a lot of underaged people here but I'm 21 and if you think about it...aside from Adult Swim...nothing on CN is made for my age group. Even Total Drama Island is technically for 9-14 year olds. Don't you think a real animation lovers channel would fix that problem without relying on the after hours?

Like I said...CN is and has always been a kids channel.
I would suggest that if you don't like what CN offers you, then change the channel to something that does, but that seems like such a rational idea.

[chdr]

ARGHDSFJHRWUKL;DJPEJW.,JSDA;JK;JKe":KD"{PkQW'[PKKQwk;lk'pk :mad:

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I'm going to pretend this didn't happen, or that the pilots fail and the block tanks.

I still have hope for Cartoon Network, but stuff like this really makes it hard for me to stick with these guys.

[Jeff Harris]

It wasn't. CN was created so Turner could air all the H-B and Looney Tunes it owned instead of just relying on blocks on TNT and TBS.That's not only untrue, but it's borderline libelous.

Cartoon Network WAS created to be an all-animation channel. TBS and TNT removed their animation blocks around 1998, almost six years AFTER the network launched, because of the change of ownership. See, Time Warner, not Turner Broadcasting, was the party responsible for that action because they felt that more households had access to Cartoon Network then. See, 1998 was the access point and the year Cartoon Network really began to grow with high-profile originals and new acquisitions. TBS also began to change to more live-action programs around this time.

The fact is that CN is a KIDS channel. No, it isn't, but thanks for playing.

And I'm going to give you a reason why Cartoon Network isn't a kids network, and it's a reason that bears noticing:

Saved By The Bell is still on TBS.

Saved By The Bell has been on TBS since the end of the first class, around 1993, and today, it's still on TBS. Saved By The Bell was the number one series on Saturday morning television during its zenith. Since, as you've claimed, Cartoon Network was a kids' network, wouldn't it have been wise to put the number one kids brand at the time on the network? Turner also had rights to The Muppet Show and Fraggle Rock in the early ninties. Wouldn't they have been an ideal part of Cartoon Network's lineup at the time, especially since they're supposed to be a kids' network and not an all-animation one?

And also, would Cartoon Network air Toon Heads, Oh Canada!, and Boomerang (before it was a network, it was a block dedicated to the cartoons of the baby boomer popularion [that's where the boomer comes from in the name]) if it was just a kids' network? If it was just a kids' network, couldn't they have time-shared it with TNT, not unlike what they did in most international markets? It would have been in a lot more households and its eventual launch as a separate network would have been huge.

Cartoon Network was always going to be Cartoon Network. There is no legitimate proof that they was even going to be called anything else. Plus, they've even had campaigns on the network pronouncing they would air cartoons 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, until the end of time. Time ended in 2006 the moment The Goonies arrived.

Hence why it is in competition with Nick and Disney. And kids, like everyone else, enjoy both live action and animation. So they want to air both. Actually, they're in competition with Nickelodeon and Disney Channel because of two reasons. The first reason is that Time Warner, the most poorly managed entertainment company on the planet, is too cheap to launch a Kids' WB cable network in the first place that they turned the closest thing to a kids channel they have into a surrogate kids network. The second reason is that media critics lumped them into that category because of the arcane belief that "cartoons are for kids." When the original core management of Cartoon Network (Cohen, Siminsky, and Connick-Perez) were booted out by the Kellner regime, the push to full-fledged kids' network began, but they had one obstacle to overcome and admit.

They had to admit that adults enjoyed cartoons as well.

Thus, Adult Swim was created solely for that benefit. Also, Toonami's Midnight Run catered to older non-child audiences as well. TMR ended because they expanded Adult Swim to six nights per week.

Oh, and a postscript on the previous discussion. If Cartoon Network really was a kids' network, Adult Swim would be on TNT or TBS, not sharing Cartoon Network's channel space. And before you or anybody else bring out Nick at Nite, consider that "channel's" recent facelift and logo change essentially unifying it with Nickelodeon's on-air image, even using the old "Nick-Nick-Nick" jingle.

The management of Cartoon Network only moved to live-action because they convinced themselves that animation couldn't attract younger audiences like they used to. They've noticed how shows on Disney Channel were gaining viewers and yet ignored the number one series on cable was a cartoon on Nickelodeon called Spongebob Squarepants, so Cartoon Network began refering to themselves as CN and acquired a lot of older, live-action movies as well as pushing animation to the wayside.

Between 2006 and 2008, there were hardly any real animated standouts at Cartoon Network. They focused more on live-action original projects. Re-Animated (Out of Jimmy's Head) was the first, and it got huge ratings because of curious onlookers. Same thing with the first live-action Ben 10 movie. Last year, they announced plans to produce two live-action films based on animated properties to air this coming fall.

Meanwhile, CN acquired rights to Total Drama Island, a Canadian animated series that became one of the biggest shows in the history of the channel. Combined with strong premieres of Chowder, Flapjack, Secret Saturdays, Alien Force, and Clone Wars as well as the announcement of the Cartoonstitute project and the summer premiere of Total Drama Action, it seemed that animation was regaining its top spot in the hearts and minds of the network's execs.

Then they pull something like that in-the-darkness announcement of 15 live-action pilots, especially in light of the upcoming relaunch of Toon Disney into Disney closed crossed-eyed grin, um, Disney XD. XD's launching similar plots for the same audiences Cartoon Network wants to grab.

It almost screams of desperation on Cartoon Network's part. Actually, it IS desperation on CN's part.

But...whatever...Turner should just rename the channel. Call it TKS (Turner Kids Station) or something like that.They won't rename the channel TKS because:

- The Turner name doesn't mean squat anymore at Time Warner except for the name of the basic cable network division.

- Ted Turner isn't there anymore.

- It's a stupid name.

- They've already turned the CN initials into a brand at Cartoon Network.

- They're not going to change the name of the network.

[CartoonOverlord]

I've given up caring years ago, all I want is that Adventure Time gets the treatment it rightfully deserves.

[Raidon Makoto]

Actually, they're in competition with Nickelodeon and Disney Channel because of two reasons. The first reason is that Time Warner, the most poorly managed entertainment company on the planet, is too cheap to launch a Kids' WB cable network in the first place that they turned the closest thing to a kids channel they have into a surrogate kids network. The second reason is that media critics lumped them into that category because of the arcane belief that "cartoons are for kids." When the original core management of Cartoon Network (Cohen, Siminsky, and Connick-Perez) were booted out by the Kellner regime, the push to full-fledged kids' network began, but they had one obstacle to overcome and admit.
CN should take a page out of Nintendo's book and claim that they aren't competing with Disney or Nick, saying they're a market of their own. Nintendo achieved great success with this philosophy.

[chdr]

CN should take a page out of Nintendo's book and claim that they aren't competing with Disney or Nick, saying they're a market of their own. Nintendo achieved great success with this philosophy.The problem with that is that the general populace has always believed CN to be a kids channel, and eventually CN themselves believed that too. CN has gone too far down that path for people to think otherwise. I think that CN is starting to move away from this, with shows like Clone Wars and 6teen.

[Raidon Makoto]

The problem with that is that the general populace has always believed CN to be a kids channel, and eventually CN themselves believed that too. CN has gone too far down that path for people to think otherwise. I think that CN is starting to move away from this, with shows like Clone Wars and 6teen.
They're moving away from this... by airing live action?

TCW and 6Teen are KIDS shows. Let me tell you a little story about TCW. Remember that horrid abomination of a movie that the TCW Movie was? I went to go see it with one of my friends, hope held high that it'd be a great movie. Trusting in Lucas Licensing, the fine people that had brought me Dark Forces, KOTOR, Darth Bane, and the Republic Commando series, I thought that they would take out all the stops to make it a huge, awesome movie.

I went there, opening night, and the theater was half-full. Me and my friend were the oldest people there (excluding the children's mothers and fathers). I thought "Well, maybe this'll be a little kiddy." Five minutes into the movie when Anakin destroys a battle droid, all the kids cheered. At that point, I was embarassed to be a Star Wars fan. This embarassed someone who had been reading the Star Wars books since the Thrawn Trilogy from 1992, someone who had been playing the games since Dark Forces in 1995, and from someone that grew up on the Star Wars movies, that someone being me.

TCW is a steaming pile of crap designed for people under ten. And, come on, 6teen is being advertised to the same demographic. They aren't breaking the mold, they're trying to fit in it.

[Old Guy]

You're discounting Toonami: The Midnight Run and the early days of Adult Swim when it was still a block on Cartoon Network. Cartoon Network is an animation channel, and it is what taught a lot of us that animation is for adults too.

Yea, but those are late night blocks. No different than Nick airing All in the Family.

I would suggest that if you don't like what CN offers you, then change the channel to something that does, but that seems like such a rational idea.

When did I ever say that? I simply said that an animation-lovers channel would be more rounded. CN is mostly a kids channel and looking at the line-up tells you that.


Cartoon Network WAS created to be an all-animation channel. TBS and TNT removed their animation blocks around 1998, almost six years AFTER the network launched, because of the change of ownership. See, Time Warner, not Turner Broadcasting, was the party responsible for that action because they felt that more households had access to Cartoon Network then. See, 1998 was the access point and the year Cartoon Network really began to grow with high-profile originals and new acquisitions.

So, you're saying that TBS and TNT kept cartoons till enough homes had CN?
I don't recall saying otherwise. I said that H-B and Looney Tunes were a block on TNT and TBS and that Turner felt he had enough cartoons to create a channel. I don't recall saying that Turner at that moment stopped airing cartoons on TNT and TBS. Obviously he had to keep them till CN reached enough homes.


TBS also began to change to more live-action programs around this time.


TBS always had live-action programs. TBS' animation block was called Disaster Zone and it aired on weekday afternoons and Saturday morning. Everything else was live-action tv shows and movies.

Saved By The Bell is still on TBS.

Saved By The Bell has been on TBS since the end of the first class, around 1993, and today, it's still on TBS. Saved By The Bell was the number one series on Saturday morning television during its zenith. Since, as you've claimed, Cartoon Network was a kids' network, wouldn't it have been wise to put the number one kids brand at the time on the network?

Saved by the Bell is not a kids show. It's a teen show. It's success led to NBC dropping animation and creating the TeenNBC block.

Turner also had rights to The Muppet Show and Fraggle Rock in the early ninties. Wouldn't they have been an ideal part of Cartoon Network's lineup at the time, especially since they're supposed to be a kids' network and not an all-animation one?

I'll give you that.

And also, would Cartoon Network air Toon Heads, Oh Canada!, and Boomerang (before it was a network, it was a block dedicated to the cartoons of the baby boomer popularion [that's where the boomer comes from in the name]) if it was just a kids' network?

Those were late night blocks. Except Toon Heads. So...again...no different than Nick airing Nick at Nite and Disney airing Vault Disney.

The second reason is that media critics lumped them into that category because of the arcane belief that "cartoons are for kids." When the original core management of Cartoon Network (Cohen, Siminsky, and Connick-Perez) were booted out by the Kellner regime, the push to full-fledged kids' network began, but they had one obstacle to overcome and admit.

Didn't CN's original line-up consist of mostly Hanna-Barbera and Looney Tunes? In other words...kid/family-friendly programming? So...in a way...it's always been mostly a kids channel.


They had to admit that adults enjoyed cartoons as well.

Thus, Adult Swim was created solely for that benefit. Also, Toonami's Midnight Run catered to older non-child audiences as well. TMR ended because they expanded Adult Swim to six nights per week.


Again...those are late night blocks. No different tha Nick airing Norman Lear shows.


They've noticed how shows on Disney Channel were gaining viewers and yet ignored the number one series on cable was a cartoon on Nickelodeon called Spongebob Squarepants


True, Spongebob is #1. However, animation is a slow process. The economy is crap and they have bills to pay. Live-action may be a quicker fix in their mind. Plus, they have Disney XD which is trying to steal their remaining audience which are mostly boys.

[peterg14]

They're moving away from this... by airing live action?

TCW and 6Teen are KIDS shows. Let me tell you a little story about TCW. Remember that horrid abomination of a movie that the TCW Movie was? I went to go see it with one of my friends, hope held high that it'd be a great movie. Trusting in Lucas Licensing, the fine people that had brought me Dark Forces, KOTOR, Darth Bane, and the Republic Commando series, I thought that they would take out all the stops to make it a huge, awesome movie.

I went there, opening night, and the theater was half-full. Me and my friend were the oldest people there (excluding the children's mothers and fathers). I thought "Well, maybe this'll be a little kiddy." Five minutes into the movie when Anakin destroys a battle droid, all the kids cheered. At that point, I was embarassed to be a Star Wars fan. This embarassed someone who had been reading the Star Wars books since the Thrawn Trilogy from 1992, someone who had been playing the games since Dark Forces in 1995, and from someone that grew up on the Star Wars movies, that someone being me.

TCW is a steaming pile of crap designed for people under ten. And, come on, 6teen is being advertised to the same demographic. They aren't breaking the mold, they're trying to fit in it.

Star Wars has been for kids since...after A New Hope came out and Lucas found out how marketable it was? Don't make the franchise out to be more than it really is.

[Raidon Makoto]

Star Wars has been for kids since...after A New Hope came out and Lucas found out how marketable it was? Don't make the franchise out to be more than it really is.
Star Wars has been for ALL AGES, not just kids.

[Old Guy]

Star Wars has been for kids since...after A New Hope came out and Lucas found out how marketable it was? Don't make the franchise out to be more than it really is.

Even the first Star Wars movie was considered a kids one by the studio. And treated as such till the money started pouring in.

[peterg14]

Star Wars has been for ALL AGES, not just kids.

And Clone Wars is on Cartoon Network, which right now is catering to kids. I think Clone Wars is crap too, but CN doesn't care what I think, or you.

$$$ is the bottom line, quality isn't.

[HG Revolution]

Yea, dude, but we're talking about TWO shows. Everything else was kid-friendly. So...in conclusion...CN is and has always been a kids channel. Two shows is not enough to make a difference.

Pre-AS shows that aimed older:
-Wait 'Til Your Father Gets Home
-Toonheads
-Late Nite Black and White
-The Popeye Show (another historical series)
-Looney Tunes in general, while mostly kid-friendly, were sold towards all audiences
-same deal as above with The Flintstones
-hell, most of their initial line-up was trying to appeal moreso to nostalgia than to fresh kid audiences
-Space Ghost: Coast 2 Coast
-the What a Cartoon! show contained some edgier shorts, including one that would eventually evolve into Family Guy
-Gundam Wing uncut (for that matter, Sean Akins said all the Gundam shows were getting more-teen/young adult-heavy audiences)
-several movies were definately more mature (Vampire Hunter D, Robot Carnival, etc.)
-I'm still trying to figure out how Johnny Bravo could be sold as a children's show
-for what it's worth, Samurai Jack and Justice League got their 18-34 ratings released in to the press alongside the children's ratings, so they were probably trying to attract the whole family for those shows initially
-Aqua Teen Hungerforce was actually planned to be part of Toonami (I swear I am not making this up)

Plus they didn't need to air live-action for the first thirteen years of their existence.

So while they were aiming mostly towards children, they were still promising to be an animation channel.

[Mickialla]

This is the stupidest move CN has ever done. Ever. It's worse than Out of Jimmy's Head. All I can hope is that this will end up just like the Duchovny project.

[DarthGonzo]

Pre-AS shows that aimed older:
-Wait 'Til Your Father Gets Home
-Toonheads
-Late Nite Black and White
-The Popeye Show (another historical series)
-Looney Tunes in general, while mostly kid-friendly, were sold towards all audiences
-same deal as above with The Flintstones
-hell, most of their initial line-up was trying to appeal moreso to nostalgia than to fresh kid audiences
-Space Ghost: Coast 2 Coast
-the What a Cartoon! show contained some edgier shorts, including one that would eventually evolve into Family Guy
-Gundam Wing uncut (for that matter, Sean Akins said all the Gundam shows were getting more-teen/young adult-heavy audiences)
-several movies were definately more mature (Vampire Hunter D, Robot Carnival, etc.)
-I'm still trying to figure out how Johnny Bravo could be sold as a children's show
-for what it's worth, Samurai Jack and Justice League got their 18-34 ratings released in to the press alongside the children's ratings, so they were probably trying to attract the whole family for those shows initially
-Aqua Teen Hungerforce was actually planned to be part of Toonami (I swear I am not making this up)

Plus they didn't need to air live-action for the first thirteen years of their existence.

So while they were aiming mostly towards children, they were still promising to be an animation channel.

Listen to the man. He makes perfect sense.

[Old Guy]

-hell, most of their initial line-up was trying to appeal moreso to nostalgia than to fresh kid audiences

I believe I said that earlier, that CN was basically Boomerang in the beginning. However...those shows were popular with kids nonetheless. I recall many kids, myself included, enjoyed watching the classics on TNT and TBS so I'm sure CN got the same reaction. Either way...family friendly programming is family friendly programming.

-the What a Cartoon! show contained some edgier shorts, including one that would eventually evolve into Family Guy

I'm glad you brought up Larry & Steve. In a way...this proves that CN is a kids channel. MacFarlane did two Larry & Steve shorts before it evolved into Family Guy. The original Larry & Steve was basically Family Guy without Stewie and Meg. Yet the CN Larry & Steve is, well, very toned down. So...if CN was REALLY about adult entertainment why didn't they let MacFarlene do what he wanted. Heck, THEY would be making billions on Family Guy instead of FOX. But, no, they went for the kid-friendly stuff. In conclusion: CN is a kids channel.

So while they were aiming mostly towards children, they were still promising to be an animation channel.

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that their target audience was children. Airing adult programs on late night is no different than Nick's Nick at Nite. So...again...you guys are freaking out over nothing. CN is a kids channel first and foremost. Always had been. If you want a real animation lovers channel then request one that's more rounded without relying on the after hours.

[Jave]

Didn't CN's original line-up consist of mostly Hanna-Barbera and Looney Tunes? In other words...kid/family-friendly programming? So...in a way...it's always been mostly a kids channel.Joe Barbera (or was it Bill Hanna? I don't remember too well) stated that nearly every cartoon they made was aimed at the general audience and not strictly for kids. In addition to that, their most succesful show, "The Flintstones" (I mean the original show) was actually originally made to draw in adult viewers. For once, the show got away with things a kid's show (at that time, at least) normally wouldn't, like pregnancy. And that was one of the most advertised shows on the original CN, anybody remembers Non-Stop Stones?

Same thing goes to Looney Tunes, they were made with a general audience in mind, so you can't say they were for kids strictly. Specially when they aired lots of cartoons that weren't appropriate (by today's standards) for the kids. You remember "Plane Daffy"? That one aired a lot of times in the old CN, and it had Daffy going against a busty chick and Hitler himself. A couple of wartime Popeye shorts also aired every now and then. Which reminds me of "The Popeye Show", which was another compilation show aimed strictly at the enthusiasts, and it also aired in primetime. Add to that the Tex Avery, Bob Clampett and Chuck Jones show and you have quite the old school stuff.

I think the problem is that you're calling something that's family-friendly to be "for kids". CN isn't an strict kids network, it's an all-ages network dedicated to those who like animation.

And for the record, I've never considered Nick and Disney to be kids networks either. They're most succesful with kids, sure, but they're family network, first and foremost.

So...if CN was REALLY about adult entertainment why didn't they let MacFarlene do what he wanted.Quit putting words in people's mouths. Nobody ever said CN was strictly adult.

[Jeff Harris]

HBO was originally a movie only channel, but do people complain cause they started airing TV shows or sporting events?Oh, I'm sorry, but you're incorrect.

HBO's very first show was a polka concert. Their first high profile special was the Thrilla in Manilla boxing match. They also showed comedy specials. Movies was never the main reason for HBO's existence.

So, you're saying that TBS and TNT kept cartoons till enough homes had CN?I said that if Time Warner didn't force TNT and TBS to remove their animation lineups, they'd still be airing on those channels.

TBS always had live-action programs.I know that. They just solely became all live-action around '98. TBS' animation block was called Disaster Zone and it aired on weekday afternoons and Saturday morning.TBS's animation blocks had several names for the decades it was on. Some years, it didn't have a name. It just was. And they aired every day, including Sunday mornings and weekday mornings. TNT had cartoons every morning and afternoon, including Sunday afternoons.

Saved by the Bell is not a kids show. It's a teen show. It's success led to NBC dropping animation and creating the TeenNBC block.It was a kids show. Kids watched it more than Bugs Bunny. Its success was good, but it wasn't the leading factor to create the TNBC block. The passage of the E/I FCC mandate was the lead factor.

Those were late night blocks. Except Toon Heads. So...again...no different than Nick airing Nick at Nite and Disney airing Vault Disney.Boomerang aired at 7 PM Sundays in its first years and weekend mornings in its final years. Not late night. O Canada programming aired in dayparts as well, including their "Greatest Cartoons" marathons in the '90s and early '00s.

Didn't CN's original line-up consist of mostly Hanna-Barbera and Looney Tunes? In other words...kid/family-friendly programming? So...in a way...it's always been mostly a kids channel.AHA! You said mostly a kids' channel. But yes, that was the initial lineup. They did develop original shows like Space Ghost Coast to Coast, The Moxy Show, Cartoon Planet, Toonapalooza, 70s Super Explosion, Secret Vault, and a few others that weren't exclusively for younger audiences. And a lot of those shows and shorts were uncut.

Again...those are late night blocks. No different tha Nick airing Norman Lear shows.You know why Nick doesn't air Norman Lear-produced fare anymore? Because people complained. That's why Nick At Nite is now essentially family-friendly sitcoms that could easily air on Nickelodeon in the rather than classic television shows.

True, Spongebob is #1. However, animation is a slow process. The economy is crap and they have bills to pay. . . . which is why they could easily pick up already-made fare from Canada that doesn't have American homes. Look at Total Drama Island and 6Teen, two of the most popular shows in the history of Cartoon Network. I don't see why CN doesn't pick up others like, say, Class of the Titans, Being Ian, or Jacob Two-Two, the latter of which is still stuck on 26 episodes and wasted on qubo despite the fact that there are over 50 episodes in the can.

Live-action may be a quicker fix in their mind.But picking up cheaper, already completed fare is quicker than that.

Plus, they have Disney XD which is trying to steal their remaining audience which are mostly boys.You know, Disney XD is in few households, and they barely register on the Nielsens. Kids aren't stupid. They're fickle, yes, but they're not stupid, and they know who's fake, and who's not. That's why they didn't watch Out of Jimmy's Head. They rejected the series soundly. That's why they didn't watch Zixx. Remember Zixx? It aired in 2007 and was the first live-action series to air on Cartoon Network. It was advertised more than the more superior animated series to premiere around that time, Dragon Hunters. Viewers rejected Zixx because it didn't feel like anything they would air. Live-action versions of Ben 10 and Scooby-Doo work because CN airs them. Kids reject a network when they're trying to be something they're not.

That's why viewers weren't watching Cartoon Network because they're trying so hard NOT to be Cartoon Network. In 2008, CN became Cartoon Network again by concentrating more on animation. So, in 2009, they're going to try the grand live-action experiment AGAIN? It's moronic, and kids will know they're not being themselves, and ratings will drop, and . . . you know, it's a vicious cycle with the idiots at Techwood. I think it's best to let them shoot themselves in the foot, sit around with an open, infected wound, and realize it hurts when the pain finally hits their tiny brains.

[Old Guy]

I think the problem is that you're calling something that's family-friendly to be "for kids". CN isn't an strict kids network, it's an all-ages network dedicated to those who like animation.

I will agree that CN was originally a family friendly channel but it hasn't been that for a while. Nowadays it seems more like a boy-channel. The opposite of Disney basically. And Disney noticed this too since they have created Disney XD and CN basically s*** itself.

And for the record, I've never considered Nick and Disney to be kids networks either. They're most succesful with kids, sure, but they're family network, first and foremost.

Disney was definitely a family channel, but not Nick. Go back to Nick's roots in the `70s and `80s. They aired shows like Mr. Wizard. What post-Elementary school person is gonna sit through that. It was a very PBS-esque show.

[Antiyonder]

But you're right. Animation lovers should have their own channel but one that has something for everybody. I know there's a lot of underaged people here but I'm 21 and if you think about it...aside from Adult Swim...nothing on CN is made for my age group. Even Total Drama Island is technically for 9-14 year olds.

See, some of us animation fans don't care whether a cartoon is targeted to children or marketed to adults. As long as the stories are enjoyable and the characters interesting, then the show does have adult appeal.

And frankly, the current cartoons on CN have more intelligent writting and creativity that the cartoons officially aimed at adults. Aside from Venture Bros and to a degree American Dad, the other AS cartoons are more about content than creativity.

In a way I'd rather have a decent live-action show than a bad cartoon. Just saying...

I'm just saying that they simply need to keep up the production of quality cartoons, rather than taking the easy way out.

Like I said, one way to start getting more viewerships are advertisements that convey to the audience that cartoons are cool and that watching them do not diminish your maturity. Once social anxiety is reduced then more people would be willing to tune in regardless if the show is Family Guy or Ben 10.

[Ahiru-kun]

I have to wonder. What if Cartoon Netowork was never called Cartoon Network? Would people still care about what types of shows it aired. The fact that no one seems to mind AS airing live action even thought it's associated with CN might be proof that they wouldn't care.

While I regret that the negativity in the CN Forum is going to continue, and I'll once again be part of the small minority of forum goers who still likes CN, I am relieved that CN is at least still actively producing its own in-house programming even with the success of TDI.

[SuperMegaHyper]

*Looks at the screen with a plain face*

What kind of fail is this!

[Old Guy]

You know why Nick doesn't air Norman Lear-produced fare anymore? Because people complained.

Or because they moved on to another era of TV? :confused: Those shows air on TV Land. Secondly, after the Norman Lear run was over they started airing shows like Cheers, Wings, Murphy Brown, and Mad About You. None which I would call kid-friendly. And Roseanne, which they currently air, is borderline kid-friendly.

. . . which is why they could easily pick up already-made fare from Canada that doesn't have American homes.

There's no money in that, man. Nick makes billions on Spongebob. Disney makes billions on Hannah Montana. CN makes billions on, well, nothing. Advertising is good and all but merchandise is where the real money is at. And airing shows from other places isn't gonna make them richer.

That's why viewers weren't watching Cartoon Network because they're trying so hard NOT to be Cartoon Network.

Yet...Goosebumps was a ratings hit. :shrug:

[Antiyonder]

And airing shows from other places isn't gonna make them richer.

Neither is copying the competition.

Or to go with another analogy: If a the school's nerd wanted to make friends, would he/she really succeed in becoming a carbon copy on the school jock/cheerleader? Probably not. The way to be more successful socially isn't copying the popular kid, but to improve the smaller traits that you have.

Besides simple fact is that Nick and DC have support from their parent company and have been around longer. It's only natural that the newcomer will pail in comparison to the veterans. The choice to air live action is nothing more than a lazy quick fix method.

Yet...Goosebumps was a ratings hit. :shrug:

But did the Goosebumps marathon put Cartoon Network at the top? I mean I could understand them continuing their live action choice if their movies, OOJH and Goosebumps actually put them at the top.

[Old Guy]

See, some of us animation fans don't care whether a cartoon is targeted to children or marketed to adults. As long as the stories are enjoyable and the characters interesting, then the show does have adult appeal.

Having adult appeal doesn't change the fact it's a kids show. And also adds to the stereotype that cartoons are a kids thing. I mean...why air Dragonball in the middle of the afternoon as a TV-Y7 when they could have aired it at 9 or 10pm as a TV-14 or MA? It comes to show that CN was always more concerned with the child audience.

[creativerealms]

This doesn't matter to me. Cartoon Network has been dead to me since September 20th... What is sad is that they've roped Paul Dini into this.

Yeah because we know Dini has to be tricked to do live action rrrrriiigggght.

[Old Guy]

Neither is copying the competition.

That's not always true. Family Guy, for example, has been called by many a Simpsons rip-off yet it's become as successful. So...while I do agree I'm not saying it's a bad business decision. Look at movies for example. Friday the 13 was basically Halloween in a camp yet both movies enjoyed success. Just saying...

But did the Goosebumps marathon put Cartoon Network at the top?

But it was popular enough for them to do it a second year in a row. And popular enough for Nick to FINALLY acknowledge Are You Afraid of the Dark.

[Old Guy]

Yeah because we know Dini has to be tricked to do live action rrrrriiigggght.

It's funny how the press release acknowledges Lost instead of his Batman and Looney Tunes work. Almost as if saying, "HEY he's done live-action as well. And popular one at that."

[Antiyonder]

Having adult appeal doesn't change the fact it's a kids show.

Funny you should say that. I mean part of the reason that Spongebob is successful is because it has a pretty high adult fanbase. I'm not just talking about animation fans, but adults that would generally avoid kid toons.

And I repeat, the way to increase viewership is to convey through their ads that cartoons are cool and a legitamite medium. People will watch or avoid certain shows because of peer pressure, therefore if cartoons are considered cool then people will watch regardless of the target audience.

That's not always true.

But sometimes it is the truth, yes? Just saying.

But it was popular enough for them to do it a second year in a row. And popular enough for Nick to FINALLY acknowledge Are You Afraid of the Dark.

Fair enough, but the objective is to totally beat Nick in the ratings. And the fact that copying them hasn't helped should convince them to find their own path.

[DarthGonzo]

That's not always true. Family Guy, for example, has been called by many a Simpsons rip-off...

Family Guy is no more a rip-off of the Simpsons than the Simpsons is a rip-off of the Flintstones. Both are animated sitcoms featuring working class families. This "Family Guy ripped off Simpsons" thing is not only nonsense but off topic to this thread.

All this thread is doing is running around in circles.

[Old Guy]

Fair enough, but the objective is to totally beat Nick in the ratings. And the fact that copying them hasn't helped should convince them to find their own path.

But they're not actually copying them though. If they are getting people like Paul Dini then that means whatever they have in store won't be Hannah Montana.

[Antiyonder]

But they're not actually copying them though. If they are getting people like Paul Dini then that means whatever they have in store won't be Hannah Montana.

But they are copying Disney XD, though, what with the whole action bit.

[creativerealms]

Star Wars has been for ALL AGES, not just kids.


When something is for all ages that includes kids which mean it's stupid to complain when kids like it.

[Jave]

Family Guy is no more a rip-off of the Simpsons than the Simpsons is a rip-off of the Flintstones. Both are animated sitcoms featuring working class families. This "Family Guy ripped off Simpsons" thing is not only nonsense but off topic to this thread.And might I add, even if FG did rip-off Simpsons, how would that be "ripping off the competition"? Both shows air on the same network, they share the same block, and their audiences are nearly identical. They're the absolute opposite of competition.

[DarthGonzo]

And might I add, even if FG did rip-off Simpsons, how would that be "ripping off the competition"? Both shows air on the same network, they share the same block, and their audiences are nearly identical. They're the absolute opposite of competition.

But tell that the to folks making The Simpsons, who have had their panties in a bunch about Family Guy ever since it started.

[creativerealms]

I know Family Guy and The Simpsons are more "Companion shows" then compatition. Especially on Sundays.

[Raidon Makoto]

Yeah because we know Dini has to be tricked to do live action rrrrriiigggght.
Because it would really suck if Paul Dini, someone that made great strides in animation and is a man I really respect, was leading the charge to destroy what's left of the husk of Cartoon Network.

[Antiyonder]

Let me word my question through more analogies:

1. Should a bakery start selling autoparts to make more money?
2. Should an entertainment store sell repair supplies?
3. Should a clothing store add DVDs/Video Games/CDs in their inventory?

But as you said, earlier Old Guy, many people will refrain from watching Cartoon Network's line up because of the kid stuff stigma. Therefore, they should try for more shows that are middle ground officially. I mean another aspect which helps Nick is that you can enjoy their kid shows whether you're a boy or girl, and can enjoy Nick At Nite whether your a kid or adult.

[creativerealms]

Because it would really suck if Paul Dini, someone that made great strides in animation and is a man I really respect, was leading the charge to destroy what's left of the husk of Cartoon Network.

Only a few people, incredibly pissedoff and unable to look past the death of a dying block, (AKA a few Toonami fans) really think that cartoon network is at it's worst right now. It's better then it has been in at least three years IMO

People like you have to stop using tonami's demise as an excuse to bash Cartoon network every chance you get. Toonami was great but this is not the way to remember toonami. Acting like a bunch of spoiled brats is spiting in the memory of Toonami, especially when your acting like this for Toonami's sake.

Grow up September 20 2008 was not the end of the world. It was the end of a great block one which I wish never had to end, but all good things come to an end. The best thing you can do for the memory of toonami is to remeber it as it was, while at the same time move and and realize that things are still pretty good.

[Raidon Makoto]

Only a few people, incredibly pissedoff and unable to look past the death of a dying block, (AKA a few Toonami fans) really think that cartoon network is at it's worst right now. It's better then it has been in at least three years IMO
Funny thing is, this has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Toonami. I already said, CN is dead to me, I don't care. This is the worst. At least in 2007, we had Uncut One Piece, Naruto, Bo^7, Zatch, DBZ, and Toonami. The reason I am bashing this is because Cartoon Network is HYPOCRITICAL. I hate hypocrisy. Cartoon Network. CARTOON Network. CARTOON Network. Why, why, why is there live-action on that?

And no, September 20th wasn't the end of the world, just Cartoon Network.

[DarthGonzo]

Funny thing is, this has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Toonami. I already said, CN is dead to me, I don't care. This is the worst. At least in 2007, we had Uncut One Piece, Naruto, Bo^7, Zatch, DBZ, and Toonami. The reason I am bashing this is because Cartoon Network is HYPOCRITICAL. I hate hypocrisy. Cartoon Network. CARTOON Network. CARTOON Network. Why, why, why is there live-action on that?

And no, September 20th wasn't the end of the world, just Cartoon Network.

If you really think that and you are absolutely positive that your done with Cartoon Network than why are you even here posting about the channel? There's a lot about CN I'm not currently fond of, but there's some things I actually do enjoy like Flapjack, Batman and Chowder. But you're not really offering any productive discussion aside from daming CN because they ended Toomani almost a third of a year ago.

[Raidon Makoto]

If you really think that and you are absolutely positive that your done with Cartoon Network than why are you even here posting about the channel? There's a lot about CN I'm not currently fond of, but there's some things I actually do enjoy like Flapjack, Batman and Chowder. But you're not really offering any productive discussion aside from daming CN because they ended Toomani almost a third of a year ago.
Because, it really pains me to see the network ride this spiraling roller coaster to hell. CN was one of the most awesome things in my childhood, it still has a place in my heart.

It should really say something to the network that people still care enough to get onto message boards to complain about CN. It really should.

[DarthGonzo]

It should really say something to the network that people still care enough to get onto message boards to complain about CN. It really should.

It should, but it doesn't. Sites like this are just a blip on CN's radar. They don't care what people like you think. At least not anymore.

[creativerealms]

Funny thing is, this has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Toonami. I already said, CN is dead to me, I don't care. This is the worst. At least in 2007, we had Uncut One Piece, Naruto, Bo^7, Zatch, DBZ, and Toonami. The reason I am bashing this is because Cartoon Network is HYPOCRITICAL. I hate hypocrisy. Cartoon Network. CARTOON Network. CARTOON Network. Why, why, why is there live-action on that?

And no, September 20th wasn't the end of the world, just Cartoon Network.

See it's not about Toonami tey they day toonami ended is the day Cartoon Network died? Er your sending mixed singles.

Uncut One Piece? Sorry but while the FUNi dub was better then the 4kids dub is was still heavily edited. In fact one othe show of those listed that was uncut was DBZ.

Oh and that's all cartoon network had going for it in 2006 and 2007. the originals sucked badly. The originals we have today are much better. That is why Cartoon Network is better today it's better as a whole and not relying on a single block that is four hours long.

Also toonami died to me when they dropped One Piece. naruto is crap Samuria Jack is good to look at but it's not a good show and thats all Toonami was at the end.

And you must hate yourself right now.

I'm still enjoying cartoon Network as a whole now more then i was in 2006 and 2007 and that is what matters to me my own personal enjoyment. Frankly i don't care if you have given up on Cartoon network just be mature about it. Your not.

[Raidon Makoto]

See it's not about Toonami tey they day toonami ended is the day Cartoon Network died? Er your sending mixed singles.
No, that has nothing to do with the topic. My dissatisfaction with Live Action CN Originals does not correlate in any way to Toonami.

Uncut One Piece? Sorry but while the FUNi dub was better then the 4kids dub is was still heavily edited. In fact one othe show of those listed that was uncut was DBZ.From my understanding, the only things that were edited were Sanji's cigarette and whatever stupid things Toei asked them to edit because of 4Fail.

Oh and that's all cartoon network had going for it in 2006 and 2007. the originals sucked badly. The originals we have today are much better. That is why Cartoon Network is better today it's better as a whole and not relying on a single block that is four hours long.The originals suck today, and they don't have Toonami to make up for it. :P

Also toonami died to me when they dropped One Piece. naruto is crap Samuria Jack is good to look at but it's not a good show and thats all Toonami was at the end.No, that's when Toonami became a zombie. Toonami died when TOM said "Bang."

And you must hate yourself right now.Umm... No, I don't, and that seemed entirely unnecessary.

Frankly i don't care if you have given up on Cartoon network just be mature about it. Your not.I don't appear to be having a tantrum, so I believe I am being mature about it. When my opinion is inquired, I give it. You disliking my opinion =/= immaturity. Its actually quite immature to think that.

http://www.newsinferno.com/wp-includes/images/Train-Derail-3.jpg
Alright, let's get back on topic, shall we?

[DarthGonzo]

Are we done here now? Can this discussion go back on topic? If this is just going to be a general "Cartoon Network Sux!" thread it might as well not even remain open. That's why the CN forum version of this thread was locked.

I say, let them make these 3 live action shows. Let them see for themselves how live action on Cartoon Network doesn't work. Let them shoot themselves in the foot again. It won't be bother me. I just won't tune in to those shows. I never watched Out Of Jimmy's Head (and never ranted about it either) and it's over and done and I'm here enjoying the stuff on CN that's actually good.

[Old Guy]

But they are copying Disney XD, though, what with the whole action bit.

But Paul Dini isn't your average writer. Batman: TAS wasn't your typical show.

[chdr]

Are we done here now? Can this discussion go back on topic? If this is just going to be a general "Cartoon Network Sux!" thread it might as well not even remain open. That's why the CN forum version of this thread was locked.
It was locked because discussion of CN's live-action isn't allowed in the CN Forums.

[Old Guy]

It was locked because discussion of CN's live-action isn't allowed in the CN Forums.

And because it's pointless to have the same discussion in two different threads.

[DarthGonzo]

It was locked because discussion of CN's live-action isn't allowed in the CN Forums.

Yes, because the "CN Sux!" discussions were played out. :p

[Jeff Harris]

Or because they moved on to another era of TV? Not really. All in the Family aired for about, what, all of two years on Nick at Nite? It moved there not because they moved on to another era, but because they were more adult and controversial. Just like they were when they were when they were in primetime. People got a touch more sensitive after 9/11, which was around the time those shows aired on Nick at Nite, and thus, explains their short run.

Secondly, after the Norman Lear run was over they started airing shows like Cheers, Wings, Murphy Brown, and Mad About You. None which I would call kid-friendly.Well, they're tame by today's standards and more family-friendly than today's shows. Also, may I add, they're not on Nick at Nite now.

And Roseanne, which they currently air, is borderline kid-friendly.It's the anti-Cosby Show, but it is very family-friendly. Just like Cosby.

There's no money in that, man.Sure it is. Ad revenue is a huge part of cable broadcasting, and they could reap just as much revenue for a high-profile acquisition or even a successful one as anything they outright own. The Turner nets are one of the only outlets within Time Warner that actually generates money for the company, and a lot of that has to do with ad revenue.

Nick makes billions on Spongebob. Disney makes billions on Hannah Montana.I think the billions is exaggerated on both shows. I do know they make nine figures. Close to a billion for Hannah Montana, but not that much for Spongebob.

CN makes billions on, well, nothing.That's their own fault. Aside from Ben 10 and, in its heyday, Powerpuff Girls, they never had anything of their own generating profits outside of the sales. Secret Saturday's line will be impressive when they go on sale.

Fact is, most of their higher profile acquisitions aren't owned by the network. Yeah, Cartoon Network gets a chunk of Bakugan revenue, but they don't own the property outright. Sad thing is that Cartoon Network won't treat their own properties outside of Adult Swim with respect let alone whore them out for profit. I'm sure someone would crave stuffed and little plastic versions of Chowder and .Flapjack characters, but they're not looking in that direction.

Advertising is good and all but merchandise is where the real money is at. And airing shows from other places isn't gonna make them richer. Bakugan lines their pockets monthly, and like I said,

Yet...Goosebumps was a ratings hit.Depends on your definition of "hit." If it was such a "hit," they would have ordered a new series, but they didn't. The show would have lasted longer than four months. Hell, the show would probably still be on, but it's not. It hasn't been seen since late 2007. "Hits" don't leave a channel. Unless they were cancelled for some "wish-fulfillment" live-action dramas.

[Raidon Makoto]

Depends on your definition of "hit." If it was such a "hit," they would have ordered a new series, but they didn't. The show would have lasted longer than four months. Hell, the show would probably still be on, but it's not. It hasn't been seen since late 2007. "Hits" don't leave a channel. Unless they were cancelled for some "wish-fulfillment" live-action dramas.
Goosebumps had another run this Halloween.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

More live action, eh? Well, can't do much about that. Sure, it's a 'Cartoon' network, however I like to think there's better things to gripe about in life.

Stupid is stupid, but having a heart attack over a cartoon channel airing live action is just as much so. Eventually the tactic shall either be dropped or assimilated by the fanbase. When the shows make their premier--judging upon how they are marketed, I shall quite possibly give them a look. If I don't like 'em I'll simply do something else with my spare time.

[chdr]

Goosebumps had another run this Halloween.I believe the license ran out in November.

[HG Revolution]

I believe I said that earlier, that CN was basically Boomerang in the beginning. However...those shows were popular with kids nonetheless. I recall many kids, myself included, enjoyed watching the classics on TNT and TBS so I'm sure CN got the same reaction. Either way...family friendly programming is family friendly programming.



I'm glad you brought up Larry & Steve. In a way...this proves that CN is a kids channel. MacFarlane did two Larry & Steve shorts before it evolved into Family Guy. The original Larry & Steve was basically Family Guy without Stewie and Meg. Yet the CN Larry & Steve is, well, very toned down. So...if CN was REALLY about adult entertainment why didn't they let MacFarlene do what he wanted. Heck, THEY would be making billions on Family Guy instead of FOX. But, no, they went for the kid-friendly stuff. In conclusion: CN is a kids channel.



Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that their target audience was children. Airing adult programs on late night is no different than Nick's Nick at Nite. So...again...you guys are freaking out over nothing. CN is a kids channel first and foremost. Always had been. If you want a real animation lovers channel then request one that's more rounded without relying on the after hours.

OK, so you've proved old CN was kid-friendly; nobody's arguing that.

What we're arguing is that it was a kid-friendly CARTOON channel, just as Comedy Central is an adult COMEDY channel and how a long long time ago MTV used to be a teen/young adult-geared MUSIC channel.

[DarthGonzo]

What we're arguing is that it was a kid-friendly CARTOON channel

Didn't Old Guy start off by insisting that Cartoon Network was a kid's channel and not a cartoon channel? Isn't that how this whole thing got started?

[macattack]

Didn't Old Guy start off by insisting that Cartoon Network was a kid's channel and not a cartoon channel? Isn't that how this whole thing got started?

Yeah, I think that's when the thread went on this tangent.

It seems Old Guy's been proven wrong, so let's get back on topic . . . unfortunately, I only have negative things to say about this announcement and since people seem to not want to hear that I'll clam up.

[creativerealms]

I aologize Rust. It's just every post I see from you ether directly or inderectly complains about cartoon network and brings up Toonami's death. Sure you never said the end or death of Toonami but you were hinting at it.

As I said I don't really care if you hate current Cartoon network and think their originals are the worst they have ever been. I don't agree, I prefer Flapjack, Chowder, Secret Saturdays and others over Squirrl Boy, My Gym Partners a Monkey and Camp Lazlo and that is why to be as a whole Cartoon network is better then in was in 2006-2007. i am watching and enjoying more shows now then I was then. back then I was watching maybe four hours of CN a week, now I watch maybe ten hours a week. That to me is a large improvement.

I'm what matters to me. Your opinion annoyed me and I attacked you for it and I'm sorry about it. I'm also sorry for calling you a hyprocrit.

[Mr. Wednesday]

unfortunately, I only have negative things to say about this announcement and since people seem to not want to hear that I'll clam up.
And I have to say the same.

[Old Guy]

Also, may I add, they're not on Nick at Nite now.

Because they've moved on to the `90s. That's how Nick at Nite works. Every few years they air shows from a newer decade.

I think the billions is exaggerated on both shows. I do know they make nine figures. Close to a billion for Hannah Montana, but not that much for Spongebob.

Regardless...that's more than CN makes for any of its shows.

It hasn't been seen since late 2007.

It aired again in October 2008 with marathons on the weekend. Guess you must have missed that.


What we're arguing is that it was a kid-friendly CARTOON channel

Didn't Old Guy start off by insisting that Cartoon Network was a kid's channel and not a cartoon channel? Isn't that how this whole thing got started?

Sort of. Some are insisting that CN is an animation-lovers channels which I disagree with. It's a kids channel. I'll go ahead and agree with HG (and others) that it was a kids cartoon channel but it's still a kids channel nonetheless. And they're in competition with Nick and Disney and are doing what they think is neccesary. Atleast they're working with people like Paul Dini and not some random dude who worked on Full House back in the `90s.

[DarthGonzo]

Some are insisting that CN is an animation-lovers channels which I disagree with.

Maybe it's not now. But I believe it was when it first started out and for quite a few years after that. Anyway...

[Old Guy]

Maybe it's not now. But I believe it was when it first started out and for quite a few years after that. Anyway...

I'd say CN was originally more like Boomerang. A classic cartoon channel with all the Looney Tunes and Hanna-Barbera. But... I guess that can be looked as an animation-lovers channel...

[creativerealms]

I have said it before I do not believe Theme channels can work at least not today. Once a "Theme" channel gets popular and mainstream enough it tries to get a larger audence by breaking it's theme. Sadly that seems to always happen.

[.bg]

Niche channels are dead.

TBS shows dramatic movies, C-SPAN talks about books, Sci-Fi shows wrestling, and CN will show live-action.

Get over it. You people need to realise that CN needs live-action to bring in the income to continue making the cartoons that you enjoy. It's either live-action or nothing, and you're delusional if you think otherwise.

[Old Guy]

Get over it. You people need to realise that CN needs live-action to bring in the income to continue making the cartoons that you enjoy. It's either live-action or nothing, and you're delusional if you think otherwise.

Also, I don't see how live-action will stop the cartoons everyone loves. If CN stops the Johnny Test marathons then there's enough room for cartoons and live-action to co-exist on the channel.

[chdr]

Niche channels are dead.

TBS shows dramatic movies, C-SPAN talks about books, Sci-Fi shows wrestling, and CN will show live-action.

Get over it. You people need to realise that CN needs live-action to bring in the income to continue making the cartoons that you enjoy. It's either live-action or nothing, and you're delusional if you think otherwise.
^ This.

While I don't really enjoy live-action on CN, it's what brings home the bacon.

[.bg]

Also, I don't see how live-action will stop the cartoons everyone loves. If CN stops the Johnny Test marathons then there's enough room for cartoons and live-action to co-exist on the channel.
Woahwoahwoah. You're taking what I said way out of context.

I never said CN should start making massive cuts to their animation output. I merely said that live-action would produce more funds through ratings for better cartoons.

[Antiyonder]

Also, I don't see how live-action will stop the cartoons everyone loves. If CN stops the Johnny Test marathons then there's enough room for cartoons and live-action to co-exist on the channel.

They can cut down on Johnny Test marathons by adding more animated titles to the mix, not taking shortcuts.

[Daxdiv]

Niche channels are dead.

TBS shows dramatic movies, C-SPAN talks about books, Sci-Fi shows wrestling, and CN will show live-action.

C-SPAN talks about books... when did that happen?:eek:

But man what did I just read?

[Jayngfet]

Woahwoahwoah. You're taking what I said way out of context.

I never said CN should start making massive cuts to their animation output. I merely said that live-action would produce more funds through ratings for better cartoons.

What, so cartoons aren't good enough for cartoon network anymore? And generic live action is? Fried dynamite and OOJH bombed and are during what is considered to be the worst part of network history by many. Live action is going down and ratings are gong up. See a pattern there?

[Light Lucario]

While I can understand why some people wouldn't like hearing this news, I don't really understand why some people would get this upset as well. Yes, I know that it's Cartoon Network, but having live-action never really bothered me. Maybe it helps that I remember some live-action shows airing on CN when I was little or something like that. For all we know, these shows could actually be good or interesting. As pointed out earlier, Out of Jimmy's Head was horrible for its writing, not because it was live-action.

Even if you don't like the fact that CN is airing live-action programs, I don't think anyone is forcing you to watch them either. If you don't like something airing on a channel, isn't it more proactive to just watch or do something else in your time instead of just complaining about it on a message board? I don't want to offend anyone, but putting so much negative energy into this decison by CN like this feels just like a waste of time and emotions to me. I'll most likely watch these shows when they come up and see if I like them. If I do, then I'll continue watching and if I don't like them, then I'll simply do something else.

[Racattack!Force]

What, so cartoons aren't good enough for cartoon network anymore? And generic live action is? Fried dynamite and OOJH bombed and are during what is considered to be the worst part of network history by many. Live action is going down and ratings are gong up. See a pattern there?You act as if Cartoon Network is stopping its animation output in entirely. They aren't. :sweat:

[.bg]

What, so cartoons aren't good enough for cartoon network anymore? And generic live action is? Fried dynamite and OOJH bombed and are during what is considered to be the worst part of network history by many. Live action is going down and ratings are gong up. See a pattern there?
I never said cartoons aren't good enough for CN, but they aren't profitable enough. Do you want no live-action and cheaply-made cartoons, or do you want live-action and well-financed cartoons?

The problem with OOJH was not that it was live-action, it's that it was bad live-action. It failed to compete with Nick and Disney.

Ratings are decieving. Only a small selection of families and households have Nielsen boxes. This means that while CN could be first in the ratings one week, Nick could actually be beating them by millions of viewers.

[Antiyonder]

While I can understand why some people wouldn't like hearing this news, I don't really understand why some people would get this upset as well. Yes, I know that it's Cartoon Network, but having live-action never really bothered me. Maybe it helps that I remember some live-action shows airing on CN when I was little or something like that. For all we know, these shows could actually be good or interesting. As pointed out earlier, Out of Jimmy's Head was horrible for its writing, not because it was live-action.

Even if you don't like the fact that CN is airing live-action programs, I don't think anyone is forcing you to watch them either. If you don't like something airing on a channel, isn't it more proactive to just watch or do something else in your time instead of just complaining about it on a message board? I don't want to offend anyone, but putting so much negative energy into this decison by CN like this feels just like a waste of time and emotions to me. I'll most likely watch these shows when they come up and see if I like them. If I do, then I'll continue watching and if I don't like them, then I'll simply do something else.

If I sound harsh it's because some of my arguements are ignored.

As for my problem with it, if there were more alternatives to Cartoon Network such as:

1. Other 24 hour animation channels being available.
2. Other channels increasing their animation intake.

Then I could overlook the inclusion of live action. Plus there's the fact that Toon Disney will be getting a name change and reducing their animation and Fox dumping their Saturday morning cartoons.

The closest to alternatives that we get on basic cable are:

1. Nickelodeon: Which only air animated shows during the day and under ten titles at that.

2. Disney Channel which has a small portion during the day and the rest at night.

Other networks only air 1-3 cartoons at the most and some of them already air on CN, or just air once a week.

[soundmonkey44]

CN Headquarters

Boss: We are now embracing live action! any guestions?

Employee: But arn't we Cartoon network?

Boss: Yes.

Employee: And were gonna show live action?

Boss: Yes thats correct!

Employee:...But thats....Kinda Stupid.

Boss:...............Your fired.


I wonder if somthing like this actually happend?:p :sweat: :D :evil:

[.bg]

Absolutely not, and did you need four smilies to express your opinion? ;)

[soundmonkey44]

did you need four smilies to express your opinion? ;)


Yes...Yes I did!:p :D

(& i could see at least one CN employee finding Showing live action on a network made for animation somewhat absurd.)

[.bg]

Maybe, but they probably wouldn't have the ability to voice their displeasure to the CEO or board of directors.

[The Huntsman]

I never said cartoons aren't good enough for CN, but they aren't profitable enough.“The Powerpuff Girls” made over one billion dollars in merchandise. If Cartoon Network played their cards right, they could make their animated programs more profitable. There’s really no guarantee that these live-action shows will be any more profitable than their animated fare.

[Old Guy]

“The Powerpuff Girls” made over one billion dollars in merchandise. If Cartoon Network played their cards right, they could make their animated programs more profitable. There’s really no guarantee that these live-action shows will be any more profitable than their animated fare.

Spongebob also proves that animation makes money and that's another billion dollar franchise. But like I said earlier, animation is a slow process. The economy is in bad shape and they have bills to pay. Live-action is a quicker fix.

[NewcomerDC]

The economy is in bad shape and they have bills to pay. Live-action is a quicker fix.
Whether it's a quick-fix or not, we want better written live-action shows if asked but not on a channel that had the ol promise of 365 days of animation. CN should've never made that "promise" if they were gonna pull this move.

[Daxdiv]

“The Powerpuff Girls” made over one billion dollars in merchandise. If Cartoon Network played their cards right, they could make their animated programs more profitable. There’s really no guarantee that these live-action shows will be any more profitable than their animated fare.

Am I safe to assume that was world wide, since Japan to my knowledge was very big with the PPG.

[Racattack!Force]

Am I safe to assume that was world wide, since Japan to my knowledge was very big with the PPG.Yes, it was made over a billion dollars worldwide. :shrug:

[Dudley]

All they need to do is pump out more animation until they have a hit series.
I wonder why Chowder hasn't caught on yet. It's as fun as Spongebob, even moreso!

The problem with the live-action on this channel, is that once they have a have a live-action hit, they'll increase production of them, and then over time, Cartoon Network will be just like MTV.

[peterg14]

All they need to do is pump out more animation until they have a hit series.
I wonder why Chowder hasn't caught on yet. It's as fun as Spongebob, even moreso!

Spongebob didn't catch on until 3 or 4 years after it premiered, and even then it wasn't pulling down ratings like it does now.

[Martianinvader]

All they need to do is pump out more animation until they have a hit series.
I wonder why Chowder hasn't caught on yet. It's as fun as Spongebob, even moreso!

The problem with the live-action on this channel, is that once they have a have a live-action hit, they'll increase production of them, and then over time, Cartoon Network will be just like MTV.
That's really what I'm afraid of. All it takes is ONE that works.

[I.D.Will19??]

“The Powerpuff Girls” made over one billion dollars in merchandise. If Cartoon Network played their cards right, they could make their animated programs more profitable. There’s really no guarantee that these live-action shows will be any more profitable than their animated fare.

Reasons like this is why I don't understand why CN and the other networks (outside of DISNEY) aren't interested in the girls' market. Why does the shows that only matter to these networks is either comedy or action aimed at boys? Would 6Teen and Total Drama Island would be as popular if it were an only guys show? Girls watch TV too, you know. Yet for some reason, networks tend to screw up when it comes to airing these types of shows. I would think that it's better to gain an all-ages audience than just a small segment of it.

As for the live-action, I'm gonna look on the bright side. There are several Vertigo/DC Comic characters that can use a TV series (animated or live-action). With the popularity of shows like Heroes and Smallville, this could be a way for CN to have their breakout live-action series.....if done right. I'm curious though, if CN were planning on doing this in the first place why didn't they air Kamen Rider?

[Raidon Makoto]

Cartoon Network will be just like MTV.
I just felt a shiver up my spine.

[Jayngfet]

I just felt a shiver up my spine.

^what he said.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Guys, the chances of CN turning into another MTV are slim to none. You guys are expecting the worst out of this. Besides, there could also be a chance that the live-action shows fail and CN learns to stay with cartoons.

[Jayngfet]

Guys, the chances of CN turning into another MTV are slim to none. You guys are expecting the worst out of this. Besides, there could also be a chance that the live-action shows fail and CN learns to stay with cartoons.

You know, until about september I always said the exact same thing. I've given this channel loads of chances and defended it's shows, I've lead fangroups and spread the word about it's events. My earliest memory is a shot of ronin warriors. I've been here enough to learn to expect the worst.

[DELETED]

I saw Paul Dini's name. So...what's the big deal?! I've said this a million times...Ted Turner screwed up when he named the channel Cartoon Network. I guess he never expected people to take it so literal. People...for the last time...CN is a KIDS channels. Not a cartoon channel. And kids, like everyone else, enjoy both live action and animation. So they will air both.


Excellent point. People need to chill. They also need to stop comparing OOJH (a comedy) to these projects, which seem like ACTION. Totally different animals.

[Pomegranate]

Excellent point. People need to chill. They also need to stop comparing OOJH (a comedy) to these projects, which seem like ACTION. Totally different animals.

No! This overglorification of male-geared action programming here really needs to stop immediately! Neither the action genre nor the PG rating are the silver bullets required to increase the quality of younger-skewing programming that others here make 'em out to be.:shrug:

[Jayngfet]

Cartoon network isn't and has never been a kids channel, there's always been at least something for the older crowd. Trust me, if CN was a kids channel they wouldn't have gotten the dragonball series, which is about ninety percent violence and nine percent dirty jokes. Or the tenchi series, where characters seem to get naked almost spontaniously. Both are rembered as classics to the network. Hell, adult swim alone prooves you wrong.

[Old Guy]

I wonder why Chowder hasn't caught on yet. It's as fun as Spongebob, even moreso!

Chowder is funny and all but it suffers from the Ren & Stimpy/Rocko wannabe syndrome. It's the same thing that's hurting Mighty B on Nick.

The problem with the live-action on this channel, is that once they have a have a live-action hit, they'll increase production of them, and then over time, Cartoon Network will be just like MTV.

Let's not over-react. Worst case scenario is that it'll be another Nick. Nick still airs cartoons. They air Spongebob, FOP, Barnyard, and Mighty B. And that's not counting NickToons Network which is getting Wolverine soon.

Spongebob didn't catch on until 3 or 4 years after it premiered, and even then it wasn't pulling down ratings like it does now.

That's not true at all. Spongebob has been the #1 kids show for the last 7 years. And seeing as how the show is celebrating it's 10th anniversary this year it shows that the show has always done well.

if CN was a kids channel they wouldn't have gotten the dragonball series

Even Dragonball proves that CN is a kids channel. Why air DB on the afternoon with a TV-Y7 rating when they could have aired it at 9 or 10pm with a TV-14 or MA rating?

[Antiyonder]

That's not true at all. Spongebob has been the #1 kids show for the last 7 years. And seeing as how the show is celebrating it's 10th anniversary this year it shows that the show has always done well.

It always did well true, but there was it wasn't a mega hit. Pokemon and Rugrats were on par with it in the early days.

Even Dragonball proves that CN is a kids channel. Why air DB on the afternoon with a TV-Y7 rating when they could have aired it at 9 or 10pm with a TV-14 or MA rating?

Because smallminded parents would likely object to the content despite the ratings giving the warning. If they brought over DBZ today, the results might be different.

[Old Guy]

It always did well true, but there was it wasn't a mega hit. Pokemon and Rugrats were on par with it in the early days.

7 years ago was like 2002. Pokemon and Rugrats had run their course by then.

Because smallminded parents would likely object to the content despite the ratings giving the warning. If they brought over DBZ today, the results might be different.

If they had aired it at 9 or 10pm there would be no reason to complain. Kids should be asleep by that time.

[Antiyonder]

7 years ago was like 2002. Pokemon and Rugrats had run their course by then.

My mistake.

If they had aired it at 9 or 10pm there would be no reason to complain. Kids should be asleep by that time.

True, but parnets will sometimes raise a stink even if precautions are taken. But like I said, today with CN willing to do PG shows outside Adult Swim, it would likely pass as an teen/adult show with some appropropriateness for kids.

[Old Guy]

True, but parnets will sometimes raise a stink even if precautions are taken. But like I said, today with CN willing to do PG shows outside Adult Swim, it would likely pass as an teen/adult show with some appropropriateness for kids.

Total Drama Island and Star Wars are harmless compared to Dragonball though.

[.bg]

“The Powerpuff Girls” made over one billion dollars in merchandise. If Cartoon Network played their cards right, they could make their animated programs more profitable. There’s really no guarantee that these live-action shows will be any more profitable than their animated fare.
Ah, but PPG (and Dexter for that matter) was around at a time when Turner believed that an all-cartoon network could actually work. Also, this was a time when niche channels still could stick to their niche and be successful. Nowadays, that just doesn't happen anymore, and in these tough economic times, the quick-fix is safer than risking everything on a possible flop.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

People, CN is a children's network. All of their shows are geared towards children and most of them sell toys to the demographic most likely to buy them, i.e. children. In the present CN is a kid-centric network and there is no need to fight over such.

[Racattack!Force]

People, CN is a children's network. All of their shows are geared towards children and most of them sell toys to the demographic most likely to buy them, i.e. children. In the present CN is a kid-centric network and there is no need to fight over such.Pretty much. Frankly, I don't care. Live-action is a quicker-fix than animation (in which one season takes a year to produce). If the live-action gets ratings, it can help fund the animation side of things.

[chdr]

Pretty much. Frankly, I don't care. Live-action is a quicker-fix than animation (in which one season takes a year to produce). If the live-action gets ratings, it can help fund the animation side of things.Agreed. This is just like how some people complain about AS being clogged with too many Fox comedies, despite the fact that they fund shows like ATHF and Orel.

I would only get worried if CN decided to program half their schedule with live-action, and going by the press release, it still seems that animation is still of importance to them.

[R-Taco]

The biggest problem I have with live-action on the network is that it's the first step towards abandoning it's name and animation completely. Just look at what happened to G4...

[Old Guy]

People keep using MTV and G4 as examples, but what about Nick. They still air cartoons in case you didn't know.

[chdr]

People keep using MTV and G4 as examples, but what about Nick. They still air cartoons in case you didn't know.Nick was never a cartoons channel. It was a kids channel and still is to this day.

[John Dorian]

And, Toon Disney (soon to be Disney Har Har, er...XD), airs Power Rangers and The Suite Life Of Zack and Cody, which aren't cartoons.

And yet, nobody complained about that as much as they complained about Live Action being on Cartoon Network, no matter if Disney was changing its name or not.


But....if CN can have a 2 hour LA Block that doesn't have to do with CN at all on Saturday nights but still connected to the network, that will kind of take the pain away.

Like Tednut and Cheddar stated, it can help fund new animated projects, although CN could get some popular imported cartoons, that'll be better for the long run.

[Old Guy]

Nick was never a cartoons channel. It was a kids channel and still is to this day.

That wasn't my point. My point was that you guys are over-reacting. You're comparing CN to MTV which doesn't even air music anymore. CN isn't gonna stop airing cartoons as a result of getting live-action. If Nick can balance animation and live-action then so can CN.

[chdr]

That wasn't my point. My point was that you guys are over-reacting. You're comparing CN to MTV which doesn't even air music anymore. CN isn't gonna stop airing cartoons as a result of getting live-action. If Nick can balance animation and live-action then so can CN.But the point of Nickelodeon isn't to air cartoons, unlike Cartoon Network.

[Hobbes829]

That wasn't my point. My point was that you guys are over-reacting. You're comparing CN to MTV which doesn't even air music anymore. CN isn't gonna stop airing cartoons as a result of getting live-action. If Nick can balance animation and live-action then so can CN.
It shouldn't balance them because it was designed to be an all animation network.

[Ahiru-kun]

^CN was designed to make money just like every other business. And just like every other TV business it would air infomercials if that's what people wanted to watch. You guys are taking a name and a promo way too literally.

[Jeff Harris]

Because they've moved on to the `90s. That's how Nick at Nite works. Every few years they air shows from a newer decade.Family Matters, The Cosby Show, and Roseanne are from the '80s, The Fresh Prince of Bel Air and Home Improvement are from the 90s, and George Lopez is from the 2000s. Everybody Hates Chris, another 2000s show, is coming in the fall. Plus, they make newer series on a sporadic basis. It's not just decades-based anymore.

Regardless...that's more than CN makes for any of its shows.Nowadays. But Powerpuff Girls made hundreds of millions in its heyday.

It aired again in October 2008 with marathons on the weekend. Guess you must have missed that.Yeah, with an important American election, taking care of a dying grandparent, and getting rid of nonessential items just to pay bills, I miss things like that.

That wasn't my point. My point was that you guys are over-reacting. You're comparing CN to MTV which doesn't even air music anymore.I think that's a fair comparison.

I mean, Music Television slowly integrated programming that wasn't music-oriented, including reality fare, documentaries, public affairs programming, and other non-music shows. The powers that be at the time said that music wasn't going anywhere and pointed to shows like TRL and 120 Minutes as proof of that. Soon, all the music programs slowly disappeared. They relaunched MTV2 as a music channel for "where the music's at," but that channel also devolved into a male-oriented reality-a-thon. The music finally stopped at Music Television. There are no more music shows, only pretentious reality crell that makes it downright unwatchable.

I think the thing is people around these parts want their niche networks. They want Sci-Fi to air genre (science fiction and horror) productions. They want Food Network to air culinary arts programs. They want A&E to air culturally artful programming. They don't want ESPN to air Thelma and Louise. They don't want BET to air Psycho. They don't want CMT to air Boyz in the Hood. They don't want Comedy Central to air Gone With The Wind.

Case in point, the failed Toonami channel in the UK. While CNX became Toonami, the model was clear. All action animation, all the time. And that worked . . . until some dumb bloke decided, "Hey, let's give everything to everybody on this channel. Teen-based soap operas, sports shows, sitcoms, reality programming, and, I guess keep some of those action cartoons on the network." Toonami became something for everybody, but guess what happened? Nobody liked the results, and the network shut down. Cartoon Network is trying to be something they're not, and nobody's telling them not to do so.

Yes, they're publicly saying that Cartoon Network is not the new MTV (even heard a song about it). Yes, Nickelodeon balances animation and live-action, but then again, they never claimed to be a 24-hour animation channel either. Cartoon Network did. Cartoon Network was never meant to be solely a kids' network. Nobody ever said they're not going to stop airing animation. However, you barely hear them talking about their animated properties in the public. Which is a shame because they've gotten better titles in the last few months. I'd love for CN execs to speak with such gusto about their original animated series as they do with their live-action pilots.

That's not too much to ask, is it?

[Antiyonder]

Which is a shame because they've gotten better titles in the last few months. I'd love for CN execs to speak with such gusto about their original animated series as they do with their live-action pilots.

That's not too much to ask, is it?

Which is part of my previous point. CN's success was based on the fact that execs were proud to run a cartoon channel as opposed to the folks who would rather work on Spike, MTV, CW, Nickelodeon and The Disney Channel.

But for further proof on how lack of enthusiam on animation hurts a cartoon or cartoon related property, just take a look at Out Of Jimmy's Head.

[chdr]

Which is part of my previous point. CN's success was based on the fact that execs were proud to run a cartoon channel as opposed to the folks who would rather work on Spike, MTV, CW, Nickelodeon and The Disney Channel.

But for further proof on how lack of enthusiam on animation hurts a cartoon or cartoon related property, just take a look at Out Of Jimmy's Head.With that said, I do think that that Snyder/Sorcher are proud to run an animation network, to an extent. Sure they might be greenlighting live-action projects, but who can blame them? It's what pays the bills. They have been doing things the previous execs didn't have the chutzpah to do. There's The Cartoonstitute, a virtual continuation of What-A-Cartoon, headed by experienced people who know what they're doing (McCracken and Renzetti). They have been willing to take risks, like that LT marathon on New Year's Day. They've been airing edgier content, and reaping great success with that, too. They might be advocating live-action, but that doesn'r mean they aren't proud of an animation network.

[Ahiru-kun]

But for further proof on how lack of enthusiam on animation hurts a cartoon or cartoon related property, just take a look at Out Of Jimmy's Head.

If I recall correctly, while OOJH was on the air, CN was still milking the heck of of Naruto and Billy and Mandy. Those were the shows that got all the marathons and the latter got two specials and a movie in the same year.

[Antiyonder]

Sure they might be greenlighting live-action projects, but who can blame them? It's what pays the bills.

By that logic, a bakery should remove particular food items from their inventory and replace them with shoes and auto parts.

What pays the bills just the same is hard work and talent. They're improving on the talent partm, but the hard work is in question.

If I recall correctly, while OOJH was on the air, CN was still milking the heck of of Naruto and Billy and Mandy. Those were the shows that got all the marathons and the latter got two specials and a movie in the same year.

Point taken, but what I'm refering to that OOJH failed because it didn't have that same enthusiam. What I'm refering to though is that the show's gimmick was the Appleday Gang, yet they sparingly appeared. The reason is clearly because they were included to justify the show's presence on the network.

[Light Lucario]

If I sound harsh it's because some of my arguements are ignored.

As for my problem with it, if there were more alternatives to Cartoon Network such as:

1. Other 24 hour animation channels being available.
2. Other channels increasing their animation intake.

Then I could overlook the inclusion of live action. Plus there's the fact that Toon Disney will be getting a name change and reducing their animation and Fox dumping their Saturday morning cartoons.

The closest to alternatives that we get on basic cable are:

1. Nickelodeon: Which only air animated shows during the day and under ten titles at that.

2. Disney Channel which has a small portion during the day and the rest at night.

Other networks only air 1-3 cartoons at the most and some of them already air on CN, or just air once a week.

I actually wasn't thinking of anyone specifically with that statement. I'm sorry that you thought that. I was just saying that generally, I think people shouldn't take something like this so seriously. Some of the reactions here just feel too intense, for me, for something as minor as the programs on a channel. There are other options if you don't want to watch something on a channel.

[Antiyonder]

There are other options if you don't want to watch something on a channel.

It's the principle of the matter. People who prefer sitcoms have plenty of options on basic cable. People who like soap opera have plenty of options on basic cable. Compared to them, animation fans have very few alternatives.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Who in the world said life was fair? You don't have to like it but you have to accept that a privately owned company is making a decision they have all of the right to make.

[.bg]

Jeff, while I respect the fact that you have argued eloquently and given persuasive evidence, I still disagree. Niche networks are no longer profitable. TV is facing tough times, because they are competing with services like Hulu, Youtube, TiVo, and even cell phones, whereas in prior decades, they were kings of the entertainment world. It's easy to say that networks ought to remain true to the spirit in which they began, but at the end of the day, television is a profit-driven industry, and what's going to sell more ads - ECW wrestling, or Mansquito?

[Old Guy]

animation fans have very few alternatives.

Like I said earlier...animation fans have plenty. Nick, CN, Boomerang, NickToons Network, Toon Disney/Disney XD, Discovery Kids, Sprout (if you're into Arthur and DragonTales), and even Disney Channel airs cartoons from time to time.

The problem is that some of these channels aren't trying hard enough. I'm looking at you, Boomerang. While others...well...you guys are either very picky or there truely is a lot of crap out there.

Like stated earlier. Typical complains around here:
Spongebob hasn't been funny in years.
FOP sucks
Who cares about Barnyard?
Simpsons used to be funny.
Family Guy sucks
American Dad sucks
etc
etc
etc

Also, you have to realize that there's always gonna be more live-action channels than animation. Animation is a slow process. Secondly, as for old cartoons. We already have a channel for WB/H-B/MGM/Paramount. It's called Boomerang. We already have a channel for Disney but they don't do anything. As for non-WB and Disney. I don't know if there's a market for 24/7 of shows like Super Mario Bros Super Show. And `87 Ninja Turtles must be expensive since it hasn't been seen on TV in years. Anime? It died on CN so why would it work as a solo channel? Foreign cartoons channel? There's no money in that. An adult cartoon channel? It could work but is there enough of a market for it? Shows like Family Guy and South Park do well but is there enough interest in the genre for a 24/7 channel? We'll have to wait and see.

[warnerbroman]

Who in the world said life was fair? You don't have to like it but you have to accept that a privately owned company is making a decision they have all of the right to make.and tolerate comments like these no matter how true

now as I said in the CN forum ******** with****on top!

they killl toonami, tease us with loony tunes, and now this sheesh!

[Jacob T. Paschal]

They aired Looney Toons? :eek:

[John Dorian]

Yep. On New Year's Day. The marathon did pretty well.

[Old Guy]

They aired Looney Toons? :eek:

New Years Day. All day marathon.

[.bg]

Yeah. They did a marathon, sort of like June Bugs actually.

[Racattack!Force]

They aired Looney Toons? :eek:All day marathon on New Years Day. :shrug:

[Daxdiv]

Yeah. They did a marathon, sort of like June Bugs actually.

That just makes me miss the old CN even more. That was when CN was more niche than anything else.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

And thus it becomes apparent I don't keep up with CN at all anymore.

Heck, I don't keep up with much of anything on the TV these days, aside from LOST and Smallville...and I keep forgetting about Heroes. >_>

[Antiyonder]

Jeff, while I respect the fact that you have argued eloquently and given persuasive evidence, I still disagree. Niche networks are no longer profitable. TV is facing tough times, because they are competing with services like Hulu, Youtube, TiVo, and even cell phones, whereas in prior decades, they were kings of the entertainment world.

And the reason why the competition wins is diversity. If networks would practice such a fine art, they could put up a better financial fight.

Like I said earlier...animation fans have plenty. Nick, CN, Boomerang, NickToons Network, Toon Disney/Disney XD, Discovery Kids, Sprout (if you're into Arthur and DragonTales), and even Disney Channel airs cartoons from time to time.

When I said alternatives, I said basic cable alternatives. Boomerang, Nicktoons and Discovery Kids don't fall into the basic cable alternatives. Toon Disney which is the closest to being basic cable will be out of the equation. I'm not sure what Sprout is.

But that leaves us with CN, Disney Channel, Nickelodeon and assuming that Toon Disney owners get XD is 4 choices at the most.

[Jayngfet]

And thus it becomes apparent I don't keep up with CN at all anymore.

Heck, I don't keep up with much of anything on the TV these days, aside from LOST and Smallville...and I keep forgetting about Heroes. >_>

So you're saying something on the state of television when you don't watch the stuff any more?


And I don't care about the economy, there are plenty of cartoons they could pick up for a song and they've already cancelled high quality animated toonami in favor of simple noods.

[.bg]

And the reason why the competition wins is diversity. If networks would practice such a fine art, they could put up a better financial fight.
As a TV fan, I wish I could say that was true, but it's not. The various new forms of entertainment and technology has pigeonholed cable channels and broadcast networks alike into being everything for everybody in order to survive. Sadly, that's the way things are going to be, and it will only get worse as time drags on and the TV industry's time starts to run out.

[DELETED]

I think the thing is people around these parts want their niche networks.

However, you barely hear them talking about their animated properties in the public. Which is a shame because they've gotten better titles in the last few months. I'd love for CN execs to speak with such gusto about their original animated series as they do with their live-action pilots.

That's not too much to ask, is it?

I think kids care more about good, entertaining shows than they do what genre they are. Only the 14 and up crowd online seem to make a big negative deal about this.

"Barely" talk about their animated properties? Oh c'mon! They talked about Chowder, Flapjack, TDI, TSS, Batman: B&B, and especially Clone Wars. Of course they're going to have a couple articles in industry periodicals. It's not like they made a promo about their live-action projects that's airing on CNN or NBC(yet).

[Jacob T. Paschal]

So you're saying something on the state of television when you don't watch the stuff any more?


And I don't care about the economy, there are plenty of cartoons they could pick up for a song and they've already cancelled high quality animated toonami in favor of simple noods.

So my opinion doesn't matter because I have emotionally detatched myself from the situation and can see the matter from the side of CN?

[Old Guy]

But that leaves us with CN, Disney Channel, Nickelodeon and assuming that Toon Disney owners get XD is 4 choices at the most.

Nick = Spongebob, Oddparents, Barnyard, and Mighty B.
CN = TDI, Chowder, and Clone Wars to name a few.
XD = Season 2 of Spectacular Spider-Man and other Marvel and DC cartoons.
Disney = Well...they have like one new cartoon. So, I'll give you that.

So just those four channels alone you have OVER a dozen cartoons to watch. Like I said...you're either very picky or cartoons do suck these days. And just cause CN is airing live-action doesn't mean shows like TDI and Clone Wars are going anywhere any time soon. So, you'll still have those.

it will only get worse as time drags on and the TV industry's time starts to run out.

TV isn't going anywhere. That's what they said about movies when TV was invented. "Why go out when you can stay home?" TV simply needs to evolve. Now that we're in the digital age is the perfect opportunity for channels to give audiences an option. Like for example...instead of waiting till Sunday at 9pm to watch a new Family Guy they can downloaded on your TV at midnight and let you watch it whenever you want. And that would also be a good way to keep track of viewership since the Nielsen system is flawed.

[Antiyonder]

As a TV fan, I wish I could say that was true, but it's not. The various new forms of entertainment and technology has pigeonholed cable channels and broadcast networks alike into being everything for everybody in order to survive. Sadly, that's the way things are going to be, and it will only get worse as time drags on and the TV industry's time starts to run out.

Actually, I can back up my claim with one situation. Fox Kids. In the 90s which was their time of glory, they had a little of something for everyone interms of genres, stories and medium.

At the end of 1999, the relied more on shows that could compete with Pokemon (Digimon and Monster Ranchers) and interestingly enough the ratings dwindled to a point where they would old have FK on weekends.

So just those four channels alone you have OVER a dozen cartoons to watch. Like I said...you're either very picky or cartoons do suck these days.

It's not necessarily that the cartoons suck, but that a good portion of the line ups are in repeats. I like Spongebob and everything, but four episodes of Spongebob in a row isn't a lot of cartoons.

I'll grant you Disney XD, but Nick has a total of five titles to their name. With only a hint of variety on weekend mornings.

[.bg]

That was in the '90s. Networks could afford to be diverse because they weren't competing with the Internet, the DVR, or the TV-enabled cell phone. My point still stands.

[Old Guy]

Actually, I can back up my claim with one situation. Fox Kids. In the 90s which was their time of glory, they had a little of something for everyone interms of genres, stories and medium.

Isn't that what CN is trying to do? FOX Kids had live-action (Power Rangers). CN is developing live-action projects. FOX Kids had comedy cartoons (Animaniacs). CN has comedy cartoons (most of their line-up). FOX Kids had action-adventure cartoons (Batman). CN has action-adventure cartoons (their Friday line-up). FOX Kids aired Goosebumps. CN has also aired Goosebumps.

So...is CN airing live-action a bad thing? It worked for FOX Kids.

[Antiyonder]

That was in the '90s. Networks could afford to be diverse because they weren't competing with the Internet, the DVR, or the TV-enabled cell phone. My point still stands.

Now I'm confused. How exactly is diversity a bad thing?

Isn't that what CN is trying to do? FOX Kids had live-action (Power Rangers). CN is developing live-action projects. FOX Kids had comedy cartoons (Animaniacs). CN has comedy cartoons (most of their line-up). FOX Kids had action-adventure cartoons (Batman). CN has action-adventure cartoons (their Friday line-up). FOX Kids aired Goosebumps. CN has also aired Goosebumps.

Sure, but Fox Kids had a better naming sense.

Besides, CN isn't redundant because of it being a 24 animation network, it's redundant because it's mostly comedy. And that's the beauty of the networks name. It's not called "Comedy Cartoon Network", "Action Cartoon Network" and so on. Thus you could have cartoons of an kind, thus uping the diversity and still keep the cartoon theme. I'll even take a better quality Live Action/Cartoon Hybrid.

I'll repeat, they could produce:
- Mystery Cartoons (Using the Sherlock Holmes cartoons, Scooby Doo and The Great Mouse Detective as examples)
- Documentaries hosted by a cartoon character.
- Soap Opera cartoons.

Anyway, I made some edits to my previous posts which I'll move here:
Also, you have to realize that there's always gonna be more live-action channels than animation.
Also, you have to realize that there's always gonna be more live-action channels than animation.

I don't know if there's a market for 24/7 of shows like Super Mario Bros Super Show.

Not the show itself maybe, but being part of a popular video game franchise would earn the show some brownie points I imagine. Afterall, Spider-Man And His Amazing Friends and Iron Man have done well on Jetix thanks in part to the movies in their respective franchises.

And `87 Ninja Turtles must be expensive since it hasn't been seen on TV in years.
When it comes to classic cartoons, execs seem to think all of them are interchangable, thus hesitate to give even the more successful ones a try at airing. Case in point, in 2006 CN aired SWAT Kats only to have it blow up in their faces.

Problem is that the show wasn't so successful when it was new, so expecting it to soar into the skies was unreasonable. Now if they tried for a more successful classic like The Flintstones.

I mean it stands to reason that a cartoon making it up to 167 episodes, having several spinoffs, movies, breakfast cereal and vitamins will do better in reruns that the cartoon that failed after 26 episodes (unless of course the failed cartoon is part of a successful franchise).

That said, the classic TMNT should do well somewhere on TV. It's certainly not a failed 80s cartoon with a shortlived lifespan. It lasted over a hundred episodes, had plenty of product tie ins and made the TMNT franchise more well known. Not the source material mind you, but at least people outside the comics are familiar with Ninja Turtles.

Anime? It died on CN so why would it work as a solo channel.

Pokemon and Bakugan air frequently.

[chdr]

Isn't that what CN is trying to do? FOX Kids had live-action (Power Rangers). CN is developing live-action projects. FOX Kids had comedy cartoons (Animaniacs). CN has comedy cartoons (most of their line-up). FOX Kids had action-adventure cartoons (Batman). CN has action-adventure cartoons (their Friday line-up). FOX Kids aired Goosebumps. CN has also aired Goosebumps.

So...is CN airing live-action a bad thing? It worked for FOX Kids.Again, Fox Kids was for kids. Cartoon Network is for cartoons.

Two different focuses.

[.bg]

Now I'm confused. How exactly is diversity a bad thing?
Have you even read my posts? I never said diversity was a bad thing. I said diversity doesn't turn profits like it used to.

[Blackstar]

FOX Kids had live-action (Power Rangers). CN is developing live-action projects. FOX Kids had comedy cartoons (Animaniacs). CN has comedy cartoons (most of their line-up). FOX Kids had action-adventure cartoons (Batman). CN has action-adventure cartoons (their Friday line-up). FOX Kids aired Goosebumps. CN has also aired Goosebumps.

So...is CN airing live-action a bad thing? It worked for FOX Kids.

The key difference is that Fox Kids never claimed to show nothing but cartoons. It was like Nickelodeon in that respect. Also, Fox Kids was but a Saturday Morning block that aired only on Saturday mornings, whereas Cartoon Network is a cable channel that airs 24/7.

While I don't agree with the practice of Cartoon Network airing live action, I can't fault them for being ratings conscious. It's a business decision. Nothing more than that. I believe that the chief concern that CN's fans have is that if 1 live action does well on the channel, then will come the inevitable imitations, and gradually, CN will have just as much non-animated content as it has animated content, and then CN will be a Cartoon Network in name only.

But what they hey? That's life, man. Nothing stays the same forever. It's become evident to me that niche channels are rapidly on the decline. Heck, even Country Music Television is showing movies now, fer cryin' out loud! Why should CN be any different than any of the other cable channels out there? If Cartoon Network becomes Nickelodeon XD, it will be a shame, but I'll live. I'll will simply treat CN like I do every other channel and only watch the shows (animated or non-animated) that I care about. This isn't good news, but the world isn't coming to an end.

[Antiyonder]

Have you even read my posts? I never said diversity was a bad thing. I said diversity doesn't turn profits like it used to.

I did read it. Just got mixed messages from it. But I'm just saying we can't be sure diversity would fail as networks haven't been exercising diversity.

Why should CN be any different than any of the other cable channels out there?

That depends. How long did the other networks last under their original format? Cause keep in mind that unlike some niche networks that had to change ship quickly, CN saw 12 years of success, thus the format change wasn't really necessary.

But as you said, I'd settle for them just going a different name.

[.bg]

I think the mass switchover from niche to general programming is enough proof that niche channels have failed.

A while back, I suggested that CN change their name to Turner Kids. They might as well, then they can truly focus on competing with Nick and Disney.

[Blackstar]

:^: Exactly. CN's embracing non-animated programming and still wanting to call itself CARTOON Network is a joke. The execs may as well be honest with the viewers and admit that they want to take the channel in a different direction. I personally think that if Turner would just do that, people would be slightly less worked up about it than they are. Change the name of the channel to Cool Network, KidZone, Extremely Super Cool Kids Network or whatever.

If CN wants some variety in their schedule, why don't try to mix in some comedy series in with the kick butt action? Or why not even bring in some series tailored for girls? No other station besides Disney Channel is really doing that.

[.bg]

They could even just rebrand to CN and drop all mention of the name "Cartoon Network."

[Antiyonder]

As I understand, CN wants to cling on to their name, cause while the network isn't #1, it has some familiarity which they don't want to give up.

[Silverstar]

In all honesty, I think people are acting like the sky is falling a tad prematurely.

Yes, the idea to continue to produce live-action programming for Cartoon Network is absurd, especially since there seems to be little to no variety in the shows they're hatching: how many Aaron Stones do we really need? What happened to comedy? Out of Jimmy's Head wasn't a great show, or even a very good show, but the reason it failed was not because it was a comedy; it failed because it was poorly written and executed.

Getting back on point, people are acting like the announcement of a live-action block means that CN is going to dump animation altogether for live-action. I don't think they are. CN never said that they were going to stop producing cartoons, just that they clearly still want some of that sweet, sweet ratings candy and they feel that creating a Boys' Action Show Central block is the way to do it. (Apparently, the only thing CN learned from OOJH's failure was that live-action comedies don't work. This is absurd, of course, but once a network gets burned, they not likely to repeat an experiment, even when the fault lies in the execution, not the genre.)

Of course, the thought of a live-action block on CN is ridiculous, but people have to keep in mind that the power ultimately lies in the hands of the viewers at home; these shows will only thrive if they catch on with the kids watching at home. It could happen, of course, but given CN's track record with live-action series, I have my doubts. If the 3 greenlit LA pilots are greeted with the same reception as OOJH, any plans for an LA block will be quickly gone and forgotten.

Anyway, perhaps I'm giving CN way too much credit, but I don't think that even they would be so phenomenally stupid, greedy and short-sighted to flush all of their animation input down the tubes. Cartoon is in their name, after all, and since that name has become a brand in and of itself, I'd like to think that even this management is aware of what put them on the map in the first place: cartoons. If CN truly does go the MTV/G4 route, I'll be very surprised and disappointed.

As long as Cartoon Network remains at least 85% cartoons, then I can grudgingly allow the Suits their fetish.

[.bg]

As I understand, CN wants to cling on to their name, cause while the network isn't #1, it has some familiarity which they don't want to give up.
Hence keeping the acronym. You aren't perpetuating misconceptions about your lineup, and you keep the familiarity that comes with the checkerboard logo and the acronym.

[Creed]

They could even just rebrand to CN and drop all mention of the name "Cartoon Network."

Yes. That could happen, CN might change its name soon maybe.

[Dudley]

We just need to figure out which is worse......

Let CN produce more live-action and let it go down the road of network decay...

Or get rid of CN altogether, (along with tearing away a huge part of most of our childhoods) so it can be replaced by a generic children's channel?

[.bg]

Yes. That could happen, CN might change its name soon maybe.
Source?

[Antiyonder]

Hence keeping the acronym. You aren't perpetuating misconceptions about your lineup, and you keep the familiarity that comes with the checkerboard logo and the acronym.

Would it be called Children's Network or just CN?

[Blackstar]

We just need to figure out which is worse......

Let CN produce more live-action and let it go down the road of network decay...

Or get rid of CN altogether, (along with tearing away a huge part of most of our childhoods) so it can be replaced by a generic children's channel?


Even if CN goes whole hog on becoming a generic kids' channel, they'll still show some animated programs. Cartoons won't be gone from CN altogether. Most of the classic stuff that we enjoyed have left CN years ago. Cartoon Network will never go back to the way that it used to be. I've accepted that a long time ago. At least there's still Boomerang, which airs some of the old Cartoon Network shows.

And I was 26 when I 1st got Cartoon Network so my childhood will still be intact. ;)

[Antiyonder]

To be honest, I haven't really been bothered by the live action of the late, but when threads with this topic come up, I get caught up in the moment and just let my emotions do the thinking for better or worse, but I hope I at least made some valid points on my part.

[Silverstar]

:^: I thought you did.

And to be honest, any live-action on CN doesn't really bother me that much, since I can treat it like anything else on the tube that doesn't interest me and simply switch it off to watch something else.

[Old Guy]

Again, Fox Kids was for kids. Cartoon Network is for cartoons.

Two different focuses.

CN is as much for kids as FOX Kids was. With the exception of Adult Swim every program on CN is made for the 14 and UNDER crowd. Just cause 20-year-olds like to watch CN doesn't mean the shows are made for them. That's what Adult Swim is for.

Also, Fox Kids was but a Saturday Morning block that aired only on Saturday mornings, whereas Cartoon Network is a cable channel that airs 24/7.

In the `90s, FOX Kids had blocks on weekday morning and afternoon in addition to the Saturday morning block.

[Ahiru-kun]

Yes. That could happen, CN might change its name soon maybe.

Cartoon Network is nearly two decades old. It's too late for a name change, and plus there's no need. It could just simply go by the abbreviation "CN." Eventually kids won't know what CN is supposed to mean. For twelve years I had no idea what CNN, TNT, and TBS stood for.

[warnerbroman]

CN is as much for kids as FOX Kids was. With the exception of Adult Swim every program on CN is made for the 14 and UNDER crowd. Just cause 20-year-olds like to watch CN doesn't mean the shows are made for them. That's what Adult Swim is for. too bad 70% of those shows suck and anime is.....

[Antiyonder]

too bad 70% of those shows suck and anime is.....

Adult Swim in my opinion isn't bad because they lack anime, though it certainly wouldn't hurt to find an anime to draw in the ratings.

The problem with AS is that their originals nowdays lack creativity. Venture Bros and to a degree Robot Chicken being the exception. Mostly, just like with Family Guy their shows are more about adult content then telling any compeling or simply fun story.

The sad thing is that CN's current shows whether home grown or acquired have more effort and talent behind them. Even Total Drama Island for it's grossout humor has the reality show parody going for it. I'll take Ben 10 Alien Force, Batman The Brave And The Bold and Secret Saturdays over Assy McGee any day of the week.

[Jayngfet]

CN is as much for kids as FOX Kids was. With the exception of Adult Swim every program on CN is made for the 14 and UNDER crowd. Just cause 20-year-olds like to watch CN doesn't mean the shows are made for them. That's what Adult Swim is for.



Riiight, toonami and it's more adult shows don't count for nothing.

[HG Revolution]

CN is as much for kids as FOX Kids was. With the exception of Adult Swim every program on CN is made for the 14 and UNDER crowd. Just cause 20-year-olds like to watch CN doesn't mean the shows are made for them. That's what Adult Swim is for.

Again, CNN and Sci-Fi are both aimed at adults, but have very different styles of programming.

Why not just turn Boomerang into Cartoon Network and turn the current CN into a generic kids' channel? Boomerang's stuff a lot of the time does feel too recent to be on a "classics" channel anyway, so just throw in a slightly greater diversity of cartoons and you essentially have what CN was eight years ago.

[Racattack!Force]

Riiight, toonami and it's more adult shows don't count for nothing.They were still aiming at a tween/teen audience with Toonami. :shrug:

[.bg]

Riiight, toonami and it's more adult shows don't count for nothing.
If Toonami was aiming for adults, why did they censor the guns and nudity in Outlaw Star? Why did every show get a TV-Y7 rating? Why did they - at different points in time - show Powerpuff Girls and Hamtaro on the weekday block?

Also, this thread isn't even about Toonami. You and and a certain member whose username begins with "r" appear to be so obsessed that you can't distinguish the failure of a block from the failure of a whole network. Knock it off. Be happy that Cartoon Network still airs anime, because the anime industry is going through tough times and nothing's stopping CN from deciding it's not profitable and cutting it altogether.

Now, back on topic - live-action on Cartoon Network.

[Djm912]

I've sort of moved on from CN myself, but there's something I'm not wrapping my head around.

Why do people seem to think that if the live-action fails when it gets out of the gate, CN will go back to animation? I don't recall any recent cable network regressing when their brand new shiny direction flops. They just push harder. What would keep CN from throwing more live-action onto the fire, or adapting their animated series into live movies in the hope of crossover appeal?

[chdr]

I've sort of moved on from CN myself, but there's something I'm not wrapping my head around.

Why do people seem to think that if the live-action fails when it gets out of the gate, CN will go back to animation? I don't recall any recent cable network regressing when their brand new shiny direction flops. They just push harder. What would keep CN from throwing more live-action onto the fire, or adapting their animated series into live movies in the hope of crossover appeal?It worked temporarily, when OOJH crashed and burned.

[Hobbes829]

It amazes me how much discussion this issue has sparked

[D Dubbs]

It amazes me how much discussion this issue has sparked

Well, Toon Zone has a lot of Cartoon Network fans. IIRC, the last time a live-action pilot was announced for the network, there were well over 200 posts from outraged members, so I don't find the length of this thread surprising at all.

[Djm912]

It worked temporarily, when OOJH crashed and burned.
Seems like that was just a regroup.....

I'll try not to turn this into a Toonami issue, but I saw its cancellation as a real indication of their mission statement. Toonami was in the way.

I'm not sure I'm being serious or sarcastic about this, but I'm not sure what's stopping Cartoon Network from changing their network's name. Brand identity? Well, they're trying to move away from the brand that they built.

[Silverstar]

Why not just turn Boomerang into Cartoon Network and turn the current CN into a generic kids' channel? Boomerang's stuff a lot of the time does feel too recent to be on a "classics" channel anyway, so just throw in a slightly greater diversity of cartoons and you essentially have what CN was eight years ago.

Because a) only a handful of people receive Boomerang and b) switching Boom to CN would tick off the baby boomers who are loyal to Boom.

Basically, Boomerang is for retro classics and CN is for premiere programming. I don't see Turner's big brass changing that formula right away.

However, theoretically, it would be possible to merge Boom and CN into a single channel, but the ONLY way for such a venture to be successful would be for Boomerang to become ad-supported. No sponsors are going to pour advertising dollars into a channel that doesn't show anything new.

Of course, this would be a double edged sword; commercials on Boomerang would also invariably mean a demand for more original programming and 3rd party acquisitions and subsequently less time for the classics. So in essence Boom could potentially experience the same transformation that Cartoon Network underwent years ago. We've already seen this happen with both Nicktoons Network and Toon Disney.

[.bg]

I'll try not to turn this into a Toonami issue, but I saw its cancellation as a real indication of their mission statement. Toonami was in the way.
That's not why it was cancelled - failing ratings were the culprit.

[Djm912]

That's not why it was cancelled - failing ratings were the culprit.
And how is a block that isn't bringing in strong ratings not in the way?

Niche programming never brings in strong numbers. That's CN's new mission statement.

[chdr]

^ Technically, isn't CN in its entirety niche?

[Djm912]

^ Technically, isn't CN in its entirety niche?
And, and this is just my observation, this is what they're trying to stop.

[Blackstar]

Guys, let's not turn this into the umpteenth debate about why Toonami was canceled. The fate of Toonami is irrelevant to this discussion and is beyond tired.

Back on topic: Yes, niche channels are on the decline. Sci-Fi Channel is showing ECW wrestling. CMT is showing old movies. G4 is showing reruns of Cops. Eventually, Cartoon Network will probably just start calling itself CN and will just stop saying what the 'C' even stands for. How many people remember (or ever knew in the 1st place) that the 'G' in G4 stands (stood?) for Games, Gadgets, Gear and Gigabites?

[warnerbroman]

That's not why it was cancelled - failing ratings were the culprit.they made it that way

any it may as well be called Crazy Network or CBS

[creativerealms]

It worked temporarily, when OOJH crashed and burned.

The effect seems to be (At least from the looks of it) that Out of Jimmy's head failed because it was crap not because it was live action (Which is true). So they are improving the live action shows. They got bigger names, greater talent this time around and that could make the shows far better then out of Jimmy's head.

Do I want live action on cartoon network? No I don't but being live action is not why out of Jimmy's head failed being a crapy show is why it failed.

[Blueranger]

You guys are acting like this is something completely new. Remember, CN almost picked up rights to Kamen Rider which everyone was outraged by and now they are pushing it even more.


If they air Live Action movies, It doesn't take to long before they start up on a series. Out Of Jimmy's head failed because it was a bad show, period. I do believe CN is making make bad choices on the concepts of the shows, Redline and Necessary Evil sound like good shows but that's it.

[chdr]

The effect seems to be (At least from the looks of it) that Out of Jimmy's head failed because it was crap not because it was live action (Which is true). So they are improving the live action shows. They got bigger names, greater talent this time around and that could make the shows far better then out of Jimmy's head.
I can't deny that. If they had to make some of these shows, I'd definitely watch the Dini pilot in a heartbeat.

[.bg]

Also, live action has been a part of CN since the beginning. Carrot Top had a live-action show. They even had a group of kids come on and introduce shows at one point in the mid-'90s. This is just a natural extension of the process.

[Creed]

Also, live action has been a part of CN since the beginning. Carrot Top had a live-action show. They even had a group of kids come on and introduce shows at one point in the mid-'90s. This is just a natural extension of the process.

I guess live action on the network won't be that bad.

[.bg]

JSYK, I mocked this up to make my rebranding idea more clear. Tell me what you think.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/1/18/f_cnm_0fe0640.png

[Creed]

JSYK, I mocked this up to make my rebranding idea more clear. Tell me what you think.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/1/18/f_cnm_0fe0640.png
Cool.

[Dr.Pepper]

And CN was looking like it was going to get better:sad:

[chdr]

^ Awesome Photoshopping skills.

[Racattack!Force]

You guys are acting like this is something completely new. Remember, CN almost picked up rights to Kamen Rider which everyone was outraged by and now they are pushing it even more.Actually, not many people were that mad, since they thought the show would be good. In fact, they became more outraged when they heard 4Kids got the rights instead of Cartoon Network.

[Master Toon]

JSYK, I mocked this up to make my rebranding idea more clear. Tell me what you think.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/1/18/f_cnm_0fe0640.png

You've got some pretty good skills. If you had a portfolio, you could present Cartoon Network with that and see if they like it.

And CN was looking like it was going to get better:sad:

I feel your pain Dr.Pepper, I feel your pain. Also, your username is making me thirsty.

[Racattack!Force]

JSYK, I mocked this up to make my rebranding idea more clear. Tell me what you think.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/1/18/f_cnm_0fe0640.pngI actually think that's an awesome logo.

[Raidon Makoto]

JSYK, I mocked this up to make my rebranding idea more clear. Tell me what you think.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/1/18/f_cnm_0fe0640.png
I believe I have just died inside.