Discussion: Cartoon Network Embraces Live-Action Programming

[.bg]

Thanks everybody (except rust).

I taught myself how to use Photoshop, which is no easy feat considering how complicated it is.

[Blackstar]

You guys are acting like this is something completely new. Remember, CN almost picked up rights to Kamen Rider which everyone was outraged by and now they are pushing it even more.

They were even angrier when they found out that Kamen Rider was going to 4KidsTV.



If they air Live Action movies, It doesn't take to long before they start up on a series. Out Of Jimmy's head failed because it was a bad show, period. I do believe CN is making make bad choices on the concepts of the shows, Redline and Necessary Evil sound like good shows but that's it.It's only a shame that Out of Jimmy's Head was so poorly received that CN now seems to be shrinking at the very prospect of producing another half hour comedy series. Now it's all about the boys' action shows. OOJH might, repeat, might have been an OK, show, if it hadn't been so poorly written and generally mishandled.



JSYK, I mocked this up to make my rebranding idea more clear. Tell me what you think.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/1/18/f_cnm_0fe0640.png
Nice. :)

[Raidon Makoto]

Thanks everybody (except rust).
Its a nice 'Shop, its just the idea that scares me. :P

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Alright, it's the current CN mascot. Why are we angry? It looks good and could be real, were not it already revealed as fake.

[Jtaylor1]

JSYK, I mocked this up to make my rebranding idea more clear. Tell me what you think.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/1/18/f_cnm_0fe0640.png

Great Job! The CN logo is chrome.

[.bg]

Not chrome, exactly, but shiny.

[NewcomerDC]

Its a nice 'Shop, its just the idea that scares me. :P
I rather see a network change of name and fomat before any Nood becomes the new CN logo. I just never saw any interest in them and no reason as to them being created in the first place.

[Blueranger]

Actually, not many people were that mad, since they thought the show would be good. In fact, they became more outraged when they heard 4Kids got the rights instead of Cartoon Network.
And look at how 4Kids treats it. That's why the show didn't get a good rating from it's first official premiere.

[NewcomerDC]

And look at how 4Kids treats it. That's why the show didn't get a good rating from it's first official premiere.
The show? You mean One Piece?

[Starbro]

The show? You mean One Piece?

No, he's talking about Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight.

[D Dubbs]

And look at how 4Kids treats it. That's why the show didn't get a good rating from it's first official premiere.

I know this is off-topic territory, but I can't see how 4Kids is giving Kamen Rider bad treatment. They hyped it up three weeks before its official premiere, aired a full half-hour sneak peek of the show, and continue to plug the show on their YouTube page and Kamen Rider blog with various promos, episode sneak peaks and cast and crew interviews.

[NewcomerDC]

No, he's talking about Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight.
So what did 4Kids do that was so wrong that made Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight do poorly in the ratings on episode 1? I think that 4Kids should've never gotten the show after the terrible ratings of Ultraman:Tiga.

[SuperMegaHyper]

So what did 4Kids do that was so wrong that made Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight do poorly in the ratings on episode 1? I think that 4Kids should've never gotten the show after the terrible ratings of Ultraman:Tiga.Well the fact, the dub was awful didn't help either.:shrug:

[Rolling Cloud]

Well the fact, the dub was awful didn't help either.:shrug:

Um, Kamen Rider wasn't dubbed.

[Bloody Marquis]

Um, Kamen Rider wasn't dubbed.
But Ultraman was.

[SuperMegaHyper]

Um, Kamen Rider wasn't dubbed.I was refering to Ultraman.

[Jeff Harris]

Back to the subject at hand . . .


Also, live action has been a part of CN since the beginning. Carrot Top had a live-action show. They even had a group of kids come on and introduce shows at one point in the mid-'90s. This is just a natural extension of the process.Technically speaking, what Carrot Top had on Cartoon Network was a gig hosting cartoons, with sketches. Of course, also during that time, he was doing continuity for the network.

I don't think nobody's denying that live-action played a part on Cartoon Network. The Banana Splits had been a part of the network since day one, and that was, at least in the incarnation they presented at the time, 2/3 live-action. Skatebirds, Hootenanny, and the preschool-oriented Big Bag had live action host segments wrapping around cartoon segments.

From the beginning of the Powerhouse era until the dawn of the new millennium, live-action had been largely gone. When the new powers-that-be reformated Cartoon Cartoons Fridays to Cartoon Network Fridays, they added live-action hosts and musical guests on a weekly basis. But they were still tied into animation. Same with its successor Fried Dynamite.

Most of the live-action series and original productions were tied into animation. Zixx, Cartoon Network's first weekly live-action series, had computer-animated action sequences. Re-Animated/Out of Jimmy's Head had traditional-looking animation designs but marred with an awful execution. Ben 10 and Scooby-Doo were already existing in animation long before they became live-action.

The thing with the live-action properties that Cartoon Network are developing is that there's no direct ties to animation (though the Paul Dini one may be interesting), and many of them are too derivative and unoriginal and seen only as a quick, impulsive response to what Disney Closed-Eyes Grin is doing. That's not to say that these live-action properties are going to be terrible.

They could very well be the greatest things to ever air on Cartoon Network.

But the fact that they precariously and almost ceremoniously announced the development of these pilots just as Disney Closed-Eyes Grin were releasing the details of their live-action plots just rubs some viewers the wrong way. It also seems, at least from their eyes, that they feel that live-action irather than animation is the answer to their problems.

The fact that the powers-that-be have to accentuate that "animation isn't going anywhere" in every media appearance talking about live-action isn't giving a lot of animation fans much pause. As if animation could go else were. That's why there's a fear that animation will become less and less of a priority at Cartoon Network, and it's a very legitimate fear, especially to those following the industry trends.

[.bg]

So you're saying that CN shouldn't compete with rival networks and get the necessary funds to produce the cartoons that you love? Money doesn't grow on trees, you know, and Turner has several other networks to spend money on as well.

I'll say it again - do you want no live-action and cheap cartoons, or do you want live-action and lovingly-produced cartoons?

[Antiyonder]

Money doesn't grow on trees, you know

You have to spend money to make money, you know.


I'll say it again - do you want no live-action and cheap cartoons, or do you want live-action and lovingly-produced cartoons?

What we want is simply for them to work hard. Success is all the more worthwhile when you put effort into your work rather than coasting through. And the fact is again, that there are other factors which give DC and Nick an edge not pertaining to the medium. If you need me to retype those factors I will.

[Raidon Makoto]

So you're saying that CN shouldn't compete with rival networks and get the necessary funds to produce the cartoons that you love? Money doesn't grow on trees, you know, and Turner has several other networks to spend money on as well.

I'll say it again - do you want no live-action and cheap cartoons, or do you want live-action and lovingly-produced cartoons?
The only reason CN isn't making money is because they're not running the channel right. The executives lost their passion of cartoons, and instead only care about the bottom line. Things got half-assed, and that's why its not making money. If people who cared about the industry were running CN, it'd be run much more smoothly, and could compete with Disney and Nick, while at the same time, not competing with them.

Oh, and Jeff, your sig is hilarious, though I think that live action is more like Kidney Stones. XD

[.bg]

Forget it, I don't know why I'm arguing with people who are so stubborn they won't even accept somebody else's point of view, let alone listen to it.

The current CN staff does care about cartoons. They relentlessly advertise their cartoons. They have made shows like "Chowder" and "Flapjack" surprising hits. They have become more agressive in licensing shows from other countries (non-anime) like "Total Island Drama." By making live-action shows that will increase profit margins, they can afford to make more expensive and better cartoons. Everybody wins.

[Antiyonder]

Forget it, I don't know why I'm arguing with people who are so stubborn they won't even accept somebody else's point of view, let alone listen to it.

That goes both ways. I've provided plenty of reasons as to why their current approach is wrong and a good portion of them are dodged.

Let me put it another way. They air their live action shows in 2010, and while hypothetically they do good, it's not good enough to propel them to the top.

So lets say for the sake of arguement that half the network becomes live action and they still are not at the top. At that point they will have to acknowledge that effort is the key and not a shortcut. My point is that they assume that LA will automatically cure the network from being the third wheel.

Now once again, I'll post some other factors that put Nick and Disney over Cartoon Network.

1. Time and Recognition:
A. Disney has been around since the end of the 20s, which gives DC the advantage of name familiarity.
B. SC and Nickelodeon have been around longer than Cartoon Network and logically will have more viewers.

2. Support from the parent company:
A. The Disney Channel alone gets advertisement spots on other networks, thus ensuring that people will be directed to the channel. Maybe the CW should get some ads for CN.

B. Cartoon Network has to pay money to use shows from DC Comics and WB despite the fact that they are part of the same company. Viacom on the other hand doesn't charge MTV for airing Nicktoons, nor would Nick be charged for airing something from the other Viacom networks.

Now to answer your question, I do want to see some more lovingly produced cartoons, but I want to see Cartoon Network working hard for their money than taking the easy way out. If you don't put effort into your work, you don't deserve the success from said work.

[.bg]

They do work hard for their money. They put boatloads of effort into their cartoons. However, Nick and Disney have the advantage of being first at the table, so they have so much money they don't even know what to do with it.

While I do agree that CN should advertise on other networks, the CW is about the last place they would want to advertise - it's a dead-end network on the verge of cancellation. They could run ads on Turner's other networks, though.

I'm ignoring the rest of your post because it's completely hypothetical and doesn't contribute to the debate.

[Antiyonder]

I'm ignoring the rest of your post because it's completely hypothetical and doesn't contribute to the debate.

No, but it is still worth considering. Even if they get more viewers, their goal is to outrank the competition. If that's the case, then do they have a back up plan if the live action fails to put them at the top?

[Beefy]

So you're saying that CN shouldn't compete with rival networks and get the necessary funds to produce the cartoons that you love? Money doesn't grow on trees, you know, and Turner has several other networks to spend money on as well.

I'll say it again - do you want no live-action and cheap cartoons, or do you want live-action and lovingly-produced cartoons?
Even if the live action on CN does well and makes them money, what makes you think they would reinvest that money into cartoons instead of using it to make even more live action shows?

What's to stop them from thinking "people are eating up this live action stuff, lets use our money to make more of it" ?

That's what most of us are worried about, once a successful live action show gets its foot in the door, it will open the door for more live action while displacing new cartoons.

[hobbyfan]

It's the corporate jabronies running CN who've lost sight of the network's mission statement, just as Empty-V, VH1, & C-Empty (all sister networks of Nick) lost sight of theirs. The three music channels now carry mostly reality programming, because it's so trendy (and the current generation of reality shows, it can be said, could be--but might not be---traced back to Empty-V's Real World) and cheap to produce. C-Empty is airing repeats of some Fox shows (Trading Spouses, Nanny 911), while VH1 & Empty-V share cable rights to America's Next Top Model. They play videos during the morning rush, and very rarely after that, now that TRL is gone.

Back to CN. Out of Jimmy's Head, despite all the hype, failed. They've imported series from elsewhere (Total Drama Island/Action, Chowder) that have become their newest hit series. Chop Socky Chooks, meanwhile, died a quick death once people found out that it was originally produced in 2006, and wasn't as good as thought. For CN to continue to commission live-action pilots (and the one from Dini is interesting, given his body of work, though I didn't know he worked on Lost---Jeph Loeb "& 9 Stories" used to work on Lost & Heroes, though), however, speaks to the corporate mindset that they need to overtake Disney AND Nick in the ratings. Unfortunately, while Disney & Nick have become somewhat complacent, CN isn't taking advantage.

[.bg]

Even if the live action on CN does well and makes them money, what makes you think they would reinvest that money into cartoons instead of using it to make even more live action shows?
That's a possibility, but I think the Powerpuff Girls special is the latest evidence that CN does indeed care about cartoons. OOJH didn't stop CN from making more cartoons, why should these shows?

[Antiyonder]

That's a possibility, but I think the Powerpuff Girls special is the latest evidence that CN does indeed care about cartoons. OOJH didn't stop CN from making more cartoons, why should these shows?

In this case, OOJH failed, thus they felt safer going back to cartoons.

[Raidon Makoto]

Forget it, I don't know why I'm arguing with people who are so stubborn they won't even accept somebody else's point of view, let alone listen to it.

The current CN staff does care about cartoons. They relentlessly advertise their cartoons. They have made shows like "Chowder" and "Flapjack" surprising hits. They have become more agressive in licensing shows from other countries (non-anime) like "Total Island Drama." By making live-action shows that will increase profit margins, they can afford to make more expensive and better cartoons. Everybody wins.
The thing is that those cartoons suck, and are advertised to the crowd that would be watching Spongebob and Suite Life.

When CN was on top, it was on top because it had quality cartoons (Dexter, Johnny Bravo, PPG, DBZ, SGC2C, etc.) and appealed to a wide amount of demographics, not just 6-11 and nerdy teens/adults like today.

[Antiyonder]

The thing is that those cartoons suck, and are advertised to the crowd that would be watching Spongebob and Suite Life.

If we were talking 2006-2007 I'd agree with you, but CN has improved since the end of 2007. If they'd keep up with the cartoons as is, LA wouldn't be necessary.

[DarthGonzo]

The thing is that those cartoons suck, and are advertised to the crowd that would be watching Spongebob and Suite Life.

That is of course, only your opinion. And it's the opinion of someone who has stated time and again that CN is dead to him and no longer airs anything of value. Again, that's only your opinion. Personally, I think Chowder and Flapjack are quality shows. Are they are good as the stuff from about a decade ago? No. But they're still fun to watch.

[Blackstar]

Let me just ask this: Even if Turner is using the live action programs to help finance CN's new animated programming, where is it etched in stone that the live action series have to air on Cartoon Network? Why not run them on TBS or even on TNT? Turner could just run the live action shows on some other channel and leave CN as an all animation channel.

[Starbro]

Let me just ask this: Even if Turner is using the live action programs to help finance CN's new animated programming, where is it etched in stone that the live action series have to air on Cartoon Network? Why not run them on TBS or even on TNT? Turner could just run the live action shows on some other channel and leave CN as an all animation channel.

In a perfect world, sure. But the thing is that they're trying to attract teens and tweens, and the general conjecture is that more of them watch Cartoon Network than TNT or TBS. The only original productions that air on those stations are sitcoms, dramas and movies which are aimed at a general or mostly adult audience; since Turner is currently marketing CN as a kids' channel, the idea is that the premier kids' shows should air on CN.

However, Saved by the Bell still airs on TBS; they could theoretically create a kids' block on TBS headlined by SbtB and put these live-action shows on there, but the crux there is that these new show aren't comedies, and TBS is the home of 'Very Funny'.

[creativerealms]

In the eyes of Turner Cartoon Network is their "Kids channel" so maybe it shouldn't be called cartoon network anymore. Of course i would hate to see it renamed.

[Draft]

Let me just ask this: Even if Turner is using the live action programs to help finance CN's new animated programming, where is it etched in stone that the live action series have to air on Cartoon Network? Why not run them on TBS or even on TNT? Turner could just run the live action shows on some other channel and leave CN as an all animation channel.
Well, that's basically Nick asking to air their live action programming on Comedy Central or Spike. While obviously it's considered okay for Nick to air Live Action (since they don't have the word cartoon in the first name of their network), it wouldn't make much sense...

I am oppossed to CN airing live action programming, but if they think that will get them more ratings and allow them to continue to produce top notch cartoons, i'm okay with that. As long as they don't end up like Nick or Disney and switching their primary focus to live action shows, essentially ignoring cartoons that brought them their success

[BigMac]

Just a question:

Is everybody gonna start hating CN because they're airing live action pilots in a year?

Who knows they might just fail and not make it to a series or they might just not air at all!

CN is currently in they're Silver Era. So i think we should just relax and see what are they going to offer us this year!

[Flame Alchemist]

However, Saved by the Bell still airs on TBS; they could theoretically create a kids' block on TBS headlined by SbtB and put these live-action shows on there, but the crux there is that these new show aren't comedies, and TBS is the home of 'Very Funny'.
(Which is funny, because SBtB isn't funny.)

Anyways, while I think airing live-action on a channel called Cartoon Network is silly, as long as they don't overtake the programming schedule and allow quality animated shows to be shown, then I'm fine with it. (Unlike Disney for example which plays so many episodes of crappy tweencoms like The Wizards of Waverly Place and Hannah Montana that there's barely any time for Phineas & Ferb.)

[Draft]

Just a question:

Is everybody gonna start hating CN because they're airing live action pilots in a year?

Who knows they might just fail and not make it to a series or they might just not air at all!

CN is currently in they're Silver Era. So i think we should just relax and see what are they going to offer us this year!

When Out of Jimmy's Head was first airing on CN and the iCarly ripoff from David Duchovny was announced, there was a ton of negative statements about CN said. This is expected to repeat once these pilots premire, and for the most part have in this topic

[BigMac]

When Out of Jimmy's Head was first airing on CN and the iCarly ripoff from David Duchovny was announced, there was a ton of negative statements about CN said. This is expected to repeat once these pilots premire, and for the most part have in this topic

But these pilots are only becoming series if the pilots or movies are sucessfull and have good reviews, right?

Re-Animated was a sucessfull original movie and it good mixed ratings and that got cn to premiere the original series.

[Draft]

But these pilots are only becoming series if the pilots or movies are sucessfull and have good reviews, right?

Re-Animated was a sucessfull original movie and it good mixed ratings and that got cn to premiere the original series.
Oh, I didn't realize you say airing. People hated the pilots even before they were announced. Hence the complaints about the David Duchovny Series

People will hate any possibility of live action on CN. There's still hatred towards the British Coms coming to Adult Swim (Despite having a decent sized fanbase and are regarded as not terrible series). I'm half suprised there isn't a topic about commercials being in live action and how those should be gone...

Sure, Re-Animated was successful. But it was successful in it's target demo, which is primarily 6-11. Nobody on this site should be in that demo (and if they are, they should be banned not only for breaking rules for being underage, but are probably terrible posters). So if a mass amount of people don't like something like that on TZ it isn't suprising, since the series are targeted at a different demo.

[Blueranger]

I know this is off-topic territory, but I can't see how 4Kids is giving Kamen Rider bad treatment. They hyped it up three weeks before its official premiere, aired a full half-hour sneak peek of the show, and continue to plug the show on their YouTube page and Kamen Rider blog with various promos, episode sneak peaks and cast and crew interviews.

Actually, they aren't doing a bad job with it but the timeslot is a little off even though I wouldn't wanna get up early to see it, I think the 11:30 timeslot is jinxing it.

Grandsazers and PROO airs on CN (Philippines) so why does everyone think it's a problem to air Live Action on a Cartoon network?

[Doz Hewson]

Just speaking for someone who first received CN in late 1996 at age 28, namely, myself: Live Action just has no damn business being on a Cartoon Network,for (almost) any reason.

[Cartoon1]

DAMMIT. Well, I don't watch cn that much anyway.

[Raditz]

TEARS OF RAGE AND BLOOD STREAM DOWN MY FACE.

Seriously. CN apparently can't learn that OOJH failed terribly and they got a ton of better ratings when they aired Cartoons only

NOT TO MENTION THE POOR TOON ZONE CN FORUM. NOW WE ARE GONNA HAVE TO DEAL WITH MORE "cn sux nao lolwtf live akshun duzint beelong on a chanul 4 toonz only wtf gey" threads

[creativerealms]

TEARS OF RAGE AND BLOOD STREAM DOWN MY FACE.

Seriously. CN apparently can't learn that OOJH failed terribly and they got a ton of better ratings when they aired Cartoons only

NOT TO MENTION THE POOR TOON ZONE CN FORUM. NOW WE ARE GONNA HAVE TO DEAL WITH MORE "cn sux nao lolwtf live akshun duzint beelong on a chanul 4 toonz only wtf gey" threads

Maybe they think OOJH failed because it was a crappy show (Which it was) and not because it was live action.

[Blackstar]

Grandsazers and PROO airs on CN (Philippines) so why does everyone think it's a problem to air Live Action on a Cartoon network?

Most people are probably afraid that 1 live action series on Cartoon Network will lead to more, until there is suddenly more non-animated programming on CN that there is animated content. It could also be because the 1st word in the channel's name is :>:CARTOON:<:, but that's just a guess.

Here's the thing, though: I am now, always was and always will be opposed to the idea of any live action series airing on Cartoon Network. However, I now realize that all of the kvetching in the world isn't going to make the execs at CN stop it. Clearly, it is in their mindset to do this and they will continue to do so, whether any of us like it or not. Turner wants to compete with Nick and Disney, and they feel like CN is their Nickelodeon, and is therfore their outlet for any kind of children's programming, animated or non-animated, but if 1 successful non-animated series will help CN fund for 2 or more animated series, and as long as the non-animated content does not overwhelm CN and that Turner never forgets that CN is first and foremost a channel for CARTOONS, then I won't complain much.

And to reiterate what has already been said a few times before, Out of Jimmy's Head did not fail because it was live action; it failed because it was mishandled and poorly executed.

[.bg]

Let me just ask this: Even if Turner is using the live action programs to help finance CN's new animated programming, where is it etched in stone that the live action series have to air on Cartoon Network? Why not run them on TBS or even on TNT? Turner could just run the live action shows on some other channel and leave CN as an all animation channel.
Few kids watch TBS. No kids watch TNT. CN has always played to the kids' demographics. Therefore, it makes sense that the new live-action series go to CN.

[Starbro]

Few kids watch TBS. No kids watch TNT. CN has always played to the kids' demographics. Therefore, it makes sense that the new live-action series go to CN.

That's true, but we've already covered that a few posts up. :sweat:

[.bg]

CN isn't going to forget about cartoons. The Looney Tunes and PPG marathons are proof enough, and with the success of recent shows like Foster's, Chowder, and Flapjack, why would they want to?

[Jeff Harris]

So you're saying that CN shouldn't compete with rival networks and get the necessary funds to produce the cartoons that you love?No, I'm not saying that at all. Here's where that argument falls flat.

From 1992 until 2006, do you know how Cartoon Network made the necessary funds to produce the cartoons we love?

By airing and acquiring cartoons. It's out there now. You've read it. You can't unread it. It works.

Unfortunately, Time Warner is so hellbent on making people forget about their older titles and even the fact that they have an animation studio that they purposely bury their creations in a vault and only available if you buy them or have access to broadband so you can see them instead of airing them in syndication or a readily-available outlet like Cartoon Network. Makes sense. But when it comes to the most poorly managed entertainment company on the planet, you'd think they'd let a channel called Cartoon Network have freereign access to their library and studios, and not just for DC Comics-based shows, but alas, they don't. Hell, the entire Hanna-Barbera library and brand is hijacked by Warner Bros. Animation.

It's this need to be like Nick and Disney that resonates in the minds of the Time Warner execs. They can't launch a stand-alone children's network because they're too cheap, so they systematically transformed Cartoon Network into Children's Network, and they don't care.


Money doesn't grow on trees, you know, and Turner has several other networks to spend money on as well.Of course they do, and guess what? All the Turner networks are doing well money-wise and spending their monies on things they feel will make their networks better. Of course, TNT is spending funds on dramatic productions and acquisitions since drama is their new mandate, and TBS is spending funds on comedic productions and acquisitions since comedy is their forte. Cartoon Network is spending funds on animated productions and acquisitions, but they're also deviating from their core business with live-action pilots that could otherwise air on TBS or TNT?

Why couldn't those same action properties be picked up on TNT? TNT is not strictly an adult station, but rather a general entertainment channel. The purpose of general entertainment channels is to provide something for everyone. Unfortunately, the homogenization of entertainment brands led to cost-cutting, the end of niche channels, and a "vanilla mandate" for nearly every channel. A "vanilla mandate" is an unofficial dictum from on high that channels look pretty much the same by offering some of the same shows on nearly every channel they own while keeping some shows exclusives. That's why you see Married With Children on Spike and TBS, MASH on TV Land and ION, Law and Order and their spinoffs on Bravo, USA, and TNT, The Fresh Prince on Nickelodeon, Nick at Nite, The N, ABC Family, and BET, and COPS on truTV and G4. General entertainment channels are a dying breed because all the former niche channels are becoming "general with a few exclusives" instead of sticking with their original core missions.


I'll say it again - do you want no live-action and cheap cartoons, or do you want live-action and lovingly-produced cartoons?How about good live-action and lovingly-produced cartoons? That should be an option, but, unfortunately, it's not.


Forget it, I don't know why I'm arguing with people who are so stubborn they won't even accept somebody else's point of view, let alone listen to it.I'll admit, there are a lot of folks that aren't going to agree with your viewpoint, especially in a place called Toon Zone, but that's not always a sign of stubborness. A lot of us feel very passionately about the direction of Cartoon Network and are, of course, unhappy with the need to add more live-action, feeling that's a quick fix and a need to copy Disney Closed-Eyes Grin and others.

For 14 years, Cartoon Network didn't need live-action to succede, especially since they had high-profile animators and creators working on lovingly-produced cartoons instead of worrying about comparing the ratings of their programs to the ratings of their competitors. Do you think TNT worry about their ratings against FX? Do you think TBS worry about their ratings against USA's? If they do, they don't make a big to-do about it like today's Cartoon Network does.

Yeah, people complain and are, as you put it, "stubborn" in their opinions. I know I can be stubborn about my opinions. But that's not to say I disagree with everything those that support live-action on Cartoon Network have to say. Yeah, as long as it's good and looks and feels like they gave a damn about it, good live-action has a place on Cartoon Network. They could create AND acquire good live-action shows. Zixx wasn't good. Out of Jimmy's Head wasn't good. The first Ben 10 movie wasn't that good. Perhaps instead of copying other successful concepts, they should develop truly original projects and take their time creating them rather than rushing things into production as a lot of shows tend to look like.

Good live-action should take as much time as animation and not be rushed. Time is money, you know.

[Eddy]

Cartoon Network is dead to me. It has been for a while now. They called themselves the "best place for cartoons" and that they would air nothing but cartoons and only cartoons for 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. People like to use the excuse of "Well, they used to air stuff like The Banana Splits and that had live-action wrap arounds!" but that lame excuse doesn't hold any water. There's a big difference between airing something with live action wrap arounds like The Banana Splits and showing a movie like School of Rock. They aren't Cartoon Network anymore. They are simply "CN".

If it weren't for Flapjack and Chowder and some of the programming on [adult swim], I'd have no reason to watch the network at all.

[Starbro]

CN isn't going to forget about cartoons. The Looney Tunes and PPG marathons are proof enough, and with the success of recent shows like Foster's, Chowder, and Flapjack, why would they want to?

:^: If the CN Suits are smart, they'll keep this in mind. :^:

My 2 cents:

Ideally, I still think that live-action stay the frell off of CN, but as long as the Suits' live-action Jones doesn't go on to dominate Cartoon Network, as long they continue to produce quality animation and the channel remains first and foremost the place for Cartoons, then I'll be able to tolerate it. Not enjoy it, I'll never be able to do that in principle, but tolerate it.

[.bg]

No, I'm not saying that at all. Here's where that argument falls flat.

From 1992 until 2006, do you know how Cartoon Network made the necessary funds to produce the cartoons we love?

By airing and acquiring cartoons. It's out there now. You've read it. You can't unread it. It works.
Remember though, in that timeframe, Nickelodeon and Disney aired way more cartoons than they do now. CN could afford to compete with them using only cartoons because nine times out of ten, there would be a cartoon on Nick and/or Disney at the same time. With the advent of live-action tweencoms, that's not the case anymore, and we all know what genre's getting more ratings.


Unfortunately, Time Warner is so hellbent on making people forget about their older titles and even the fact that they have an animation studio that they purposely bury their creations in a vault and only available if you buy them or have access to broadband so you can see them instead of airing them in syndication or a readily-available outlet like Cartoon Network. Makes sense. But when it comes to the most poorly managed entertainment company on the planet, you'd think they'd let a channel called Cartoon Network have freereign access to their library and studios, and not just for DC Comics-based shows, but alas, they don't. Hell, the entire Hanna-Barbera library and brand is hijacked by Warner Bros. Animation.
That's not CN's fault, that's the fault of its parent company. I agree that it should be managed better, and a syndicated Cartoon Cartoon block would be awesome.


It's this need to be like Nick and Disney that resonates in the minds of the Time Warner execs. They can't launch a stand-alone children's network because they're too cheap, so they systematically transformed Cartoon Network into Children's Network, and they don't care.
CN has always aimed primarily at children. CN was originally a way for kids to learn about the history of animation, then it morphed into a place for kids to see the hottest new cartoons, now it's just a generic kids' network that happens to have a lot of cartoons. The point is, their competition is Nick and Disney, like it or not, and it's either follow the trends or die.



Why couldn't those same action properties be picked up on TNT? TNT is not strictly an adult station, but rather a general entertainment channel.
This was already answered earlier. Kids don't watch TNT, and the shows are aimed at kids. They wouldn't stand a chance on an adult-focused network. Do you honestly see Racers sharing time with Leverage or Raising the Bar?


How about good live-action and lovingly-produced cartoons? That should be an option, but, unfortunately, it's not.
How do you know the live-action shows aren't good? Nobody in the general public have seen any clips of them or anything. We're going on short explanations in an article.


I'll admit, there are a lot of folks that aren't going to agree with your viewpoint, especially in a place called Toon Zone, but that's not always a sign of stubborness. A lot of us feel very passionately about the direction of Cartoon Network and are, of course, unhappy with the need to add more live-action, feeling that's a quick fix and a need to copy Disney Closed-Eyes Grin and others.
I too feel very passionately about CN. I grew up with CN on both sides of the pond and have been able to witness all three of its stages. I'd rather have CN continue on with good cartoons and some live-action than have it die, leaving the fans to wonder what happened.

[MasterofRoku]

Yeah, as long as it's good and looks and feels like they gave a damn about it, good live-action has a place on Cartoon Network. They could create AND acquire good live-action shows. Zixx wasn't good. Out of Jimmy's Head wasn't good. The first Ben 10 movie wasn't that good. Perhaps instead of copying other successful concepts, they should develop truly original projects and take their time creating them rather than rushing things into production as a lot of shows tend to look like.

Good live-action should take as much time as animation and not be rushed. Time is money, you know.

I agree with most of what you said Jeff, but I want to point out that Reanimated and Ben10: RAT got stellar ratings, hence why CN got high on the LA band wagon. But the positive thing about thse movies that they were based off of cartoons or were hybrids.

LA winners:
Re-animated
Ben 10: RAT

LA losers:
Zixx
Out of Jimmy's head

[Racattack!Force]

I think we should keep in mind that the Cartoon Network executives aren't losing head of what the network is about. They acknowledge their past (they aired all-day Looney Tunes and Powerpuff Girls marathons so far this year, with an Ed, Edd n Eddy one likely to follow) and their mandate (or rather, current mandate): They are a channel for cartoons. Cartoon Network is for cartoons, first and foremost. And I doubt anything would change that. While I dislike what they are doing with these live-action pliots, I really hope a majority fail and a few that become series at least give the channel their money's worth. But I think there has to be a better way to gain revenue, which they've been able to do without live-action for more than a decade.

[Blackstar]

Indeed, it was the high ratings numbers that Re-Animated received that prompted CN studios to turn Re-Animated into a series, the infamous Out of Jimmy's Head. However, it's worth mentioning that most viewers tuned in to Re-Animated out of sheer curiosity, and it didn't hurt that CN promoted the movie...a lot.

As For Ben 10: Race Against Time, Ben 10 was an established success for CN, so naturally, Ben's fans were going to tune in to see the movie, animated or not.

So it should be noted that neither of these made for TV movies succeeded because they were live action, although that's not the way that the higher-ups at CN saw it.

[Racattack!Force]

Indeed, it was the high ratings numbers that Re-Animated received that prompted CN studios to turn Re-Animated into a series, the infamous Out of Jimmy's Head. However, it's worth mentioning that most viewers tuned in to Re-Animated out of sheer curiosity, and it didn't hurt that CN promoted the movie...a lot.I'm sure the reruns for the movie also did very well.

[Jeff Harris]

Remember though, in that timeframe, Nickelodeon and Disney aired way more cartoons than they do now.Not really. From 1992 until today, Nickelodeon's output was mostly live-action series, including really good ones like Clarissa, Roundhouse, Pete and Pete, Salute Your Shorts, Wild and Crazy Kids, Welcome Freshmen, Are You Afraid of the Dark, et. al., classic television shows like Mork and Mindy, The Brady Bunch and Get Smart, and some really bad ones like My Brother and Me, Cousin Skeeter, and a few others. Animation had never been a major part of Nick's daily lineup until recent years because somebody has to show it. Disney Channel's lineup wasn't animation-laten either. Also, Disney Channel was subscription-based until the late 1990s.


CN could afford to compete with them using only cartoons because nine times out of ten, there would be a cartoon on Nick and/or Disney at the same time.But they weren't competing with those networks. And as history shows, animation was hardly on Nickelodeon and Disney Channel's weekday afternoon lineups until recently.


With the advent of live-action tweencoms, that's not the case anymore, and we all know what genre's getting more ratings. Animation. Because Spongebob's still the highest rated series on Nickelodeon.


CN has always aimed primarily at children. CN was originally a way for kids to learn about the history of animation, then it morphed into a place for kids to see the hottest new cartoons, now it's just a generic kids' network that happens to have a lot of cartoons.So, Toon Heads, O Canada, Space Ghost Coast to Coast, and many of those late-night shows were aimed towards kids? So, Adult Swim is also a part of this generic kids' network? Hmm. Okay.


The point is, their competition is Nick and Disney, like it or not, and it's either follow the trends or die.Nick follows its own path more or less, as does Disney. Nick gets more ad money and Disney earns more outside revenue. Cartoon Network, because they now want to be them instead of compete against them, is lagging.


This was already answered earlier. Kids don't watch TNT, and the shows are aimed at kids. They wouldn't stand a chance on an adult-focused network. Do you honestly see Racers sharing time with Leverage or Raising the Bar?Yeah, I can. It's just as strange as seeing Robot Chicken and Chowder sharing the same channel space. Guess you didn't get the memo that Clone Wars: The Series is airing on TNT in the spring and was co-acquired by the channel initially.


How do you know the live-action shows aren't good? How do you know they are?


Nobody in the general public have seen any clips of them or anything. We're going on short explanations in an article.Who's to say I haven't seen any clips from those shows?I know people.

I'm not criticizing the shows themselves. I'm the guy who said a few pages back that some of these shows could be the best things Cartoon Network ever aired. I'm criticizing their need to actually emulate what the other channels are doing. One new live-action concept sounds just like Ben 10 Alien Force without the shape-shifting angle. It's cookie cutter and seems very rushed to me.

[Racattack!Force]

So, Toon Heads, O Canada, Space Ghost Coast to Coast, and many of those late-night shows were aimed towards kids? So, Adult Swim is also a part of this generic kids' network? Hmm. Okay.Adult Swim was made because of the network's need to become a kids' network. :shrug:

[MegaJ]

CN has always aimed primarily at children.
No.


With the advent of live-action tweencoms, that's not the case anymore, and we all know what genre's getting more ratings.
Ahem. (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/12/arts/television/12nick.html?_r=2&ref=arts&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin)


“Animation really is the heart and soul of our business,” [Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon] said. It accounts, she said, for more than 70 percent of annual revenues from advertising and licensing of consumer products.

Cite all the sources about live-action all you want, Nickelodeon knows that live-action is only worth so much for the future. iCarly and True Jackson are big hits for the network but they're only worth what, four seasons? Miranda Cosgrove and Keke Palmer are 15 and it's only a matter of time before they move on to bigger and better things.

I think Disney is falling into that trap regard IRT to live-action, they're resorting to lining up serveral kids to take the places of Miley Cyrus and her ilk. The only big animated series (that's still airing) on the channel that comes to mind are Phineas and Ferb and The Replacements whearas Nick has plenty still continuing and ready to be shown.

[soundmonkey44]

I guess its not that bad if CN shows live action..as long as its on rare occasions...IM still not sure on what the live action projects are. are they movies. or mini-series? either way I guess as long as they show them sparingly & increase the Varity of Cartoons & anime on the network..Im sure I could let it slid...I just hate it if the CN become another nick or disney though!:sweat:

[.bg]

Not really. From 1992 until today, Nickelodeon's output was mostly live-action series, including really good ones like Clarissa, Roundhouse, Pete and Pete, Salute Your Shorts, Wild and Crazy Kids, Welcome Freshmen, Are You Afraid of the Dark, et. al., classic television shows like Mork and Mindy, The Brady Bunch and Get Smart, and some really bad ones like My Brother and Me, Cousin Skeeter, and a few others. Animation had never been a major part of Nick's daily lineup until recent years because somebody has to show it. Disney Channel's lineup wasn't animation-laten either. Also, Disney Channel was subscription-based until the late 1990s. However, during that timeframe, they aired several extremely successful cartoons - such as Rugrats, Rocko, Spongebob, Ginger, Rocket Power, and Angry Beavers on Nick, or alternatively, Kim Possible, Lilo and Stitch, Dave the Barbarian, Brandy and Mr Whiskers, American Dragon, the Replacements, and Phineas and Ferb on Disney Channel. Animation has been a very large part (if not major) until very recently.


Animation. Because Spongebob's still the highest rated series on Nickelodeon.But Hannah Montana regularly draws better ratings than Spongebob.


So, Toon Heads, O Canada, Space Ghost Coast to Coast, and many of those late-night shows were aimed towards kids? So, Adult Swim is also a part of this generic kids' network? Hmm. Okay.You call Nickelodeon and Disney "kids' channels," but Nick has Nick at Nite and Disney used to have Vault Disney, both of which were clearly not aimed at children. However, the majority of the lineup on all three have been aimed primarily at children.


Yeah, I can. It's just as strange as seeing Robot Chicken and Chowder sharing the same channel space. Guess you didn't get the memo that Clone Wars: The Series is airing on TNT in the spring and was co-acquired by the channel initially.
I didn't. I doubt it will do well. They'd be better off just advertising the series on TNT.


How do you know they are?
It's true that they may not be, but it's equally true that they may be good.


Who's to say I haven't seen any clips from those shows?I know people.
I recall you whining on your blog a few years ago that these "people" all hated you and that you were an "enigma."


I'm not criticizing the shows themselves. I'm the guy who said a few pages back that some of these shows could be the best things Cartoon Network ever aired. I'm criticizing their need to actually emulate what the other channels are doing.
Again, let me re-iterate. Nick and Disney are CN's real competition. They have to start catching up with their category's trends, or they will stay in third place forever. It's not about whether the shows are good or bad. It's about whether or not they can make CN more profitable.

[DarthGonzo]

For 14 years, Cartoon Network didn't need live-action to succede, especially since they had high-profile animators and creators working on lovingly-produced cartoons instead of worrying about comparing the ratings of their programs to the ratings of their competitors. Do you think TNT worry about their ratings against FX? Do you think TBS worry about their ratings against USA's? If they do, they don't make a big to-do about it like today's Cartoon Network does.

When your newest bumper is a badly choreographed rap song that goes out of it's way to specifically mention ratings you know there's a problem.


If it weren't for Flapjack and Chowder and some of the programming on [adult swim], I'd have no reason to watch the network at all.

Yeah, this is basically how I am now too.

[~Shoяe]

Disclaimer: I haven't read all of the thread as when I first really noticed it it was already 11 pages long. But here are my reactions.

First: extreme disappointment. CN, Boomerang, and Nicktoons network are, as far as I know, the only animation-exclusive channels, and I think that makes them special. Also, I hate kids sitcoms and a lot of the shows that are on CN already, but I thought they were slowly improving. Their live action could get better, but when they bring it in now it will probably be low quality.
Second, after reading some of the posts in this thread: I understand how it is commercially viable, but quite frankly, the idea of CN as just a kids network disgusts me. Simply put, the word kids is like a warning label for me, and while I know that CN's primary audience is children, I also think that a great thing about their shows is the all ages appeal. Animation seems to be split into three distinct categories right now- feature/CG, Adult Television, and Children's Television, with the Adult Television being generally vulgar. Now I enjoy the adult stuff too, but the children's cartoons are the only ones that are really truly cartooney, since they are light, comical, fun, short and entertaining for kids and adults alike, and I think they deserve a place where they are king. I understand that CN will still be centered around cartoons, but I think already their true cartoons need more recognition, and quite honestly I don't care too much about low-key live action, but if it is successful I can see it expanding and making the split between cartoons and live action a lot more even. As it is with all the Johnny Test on CN already its hard enough to watch a decent cartoon when you want to, but with more live action clogging things up it will limit the availability of the cartoons even if they are still being made and aired. I already view things like action flicks as a waste of valuable cartoon time, and the addition of more live action would waste more blocks that could be used for cartoons. Of course, I want CN to do well, but they've been around for quite a long time and they're doing fairly well, with Chowder, Flapjack and TDI doing a lot to increase their ratings. I certainly don't think they're on the brink of death.
Third (after writing this response): I've also been thinking about the quality of cartoons and kids shows in general. I don't like most of the stuff on Nick, and what I did like is mostly cancelled. CN is one of the only channels where theres a considerable amount of shows that I actually like and get excited by watching, and so putting more mediocre shows on the network, whether cartoon or live action, taints my enjoyment of CN. If they can make live action that is actually worth watching I wouldn't be as put-off by it, but if OOJH is any indication, the live action is going to make me like CN less, and I want to like CN. Its a channel where theres still hope for it. Its still unique: a cartoon channel that isn't a spinoff of a larger kids network that is doing pretty well, and I'd hate for it to become just another kids network. I want CN to do well, but I also want it to maintain the artistic integrity that other channels lack. If the live action would do that then I support it, but if it is more generic sitcoms than I want it off the air faster than you can say a word that's really short. Its all in the hands of the people making the shows now as to whether I will still love CN or if I will grow to hate it. All I can say is, they'd better be good.

[Raidon Makoto]

Again, let me re-iterate. Nick and Disney are CN's real competition. They have to start catching up with their category's trends, or they will stay in third place forever. It's not about whether the shows are good or bad. It's about whether or not they can make CN more profitable.
CN needs to be a leader, not a follower to get out of 3rd Place. They need to start making things that don't suck, add more variety than marathons of Johnny Test, Chowder, and Flapjack every day, and overall, being the soul back to Cartoon Network. I remember I loved CN as a kid because it always had something good on (even if it was a repeat, they hadn't run the show to death then). CN had always been different from Disney and Nickelodeon, which is why I loved it.

They need to look to the past for what to do in the future, not look towards the present. This live-action tweencom crap is going to die out in a couple of years. If CN puts all its chips into tweencom crap, they'll still be in third place in five years.

[Tay the Cat]

They need to look to the past for what to do in the future, not look towards the present. This live-action tweencom crap is going to die out in a couple of years. If CN puts all its chips into tweencom crap, they'll still be in third place in five years.
And if they looked at the past, they'd still be in third place. They've ALWAYS been in third place, and that will NEVER change.

[TheTerror]

The more and more I think about it I have come to the conclusion that the live action stuff is out of our control, if it airs it airs and we cannot stop that, we can only hope that the shows it airs are good. If they are good then maybe CN knows what they are doing and it could be shows worth watching, but if it's lame Nick/Disney type stuff then the only thing we can do is change the channel when they are on. Besides YAH,AS,DAS,HHT and random shows like Chowder throughout the week, I am not locked on CN 24/7 so it's okay when live action airs because I will just avoid it like I do Courage, Flapjack, Robot Boy and the other shows I don't watch. In the end it is really no biggie.

[TheTerror]

And if they looked at the past, they'd still be in third place. They've ALWAYS been in third place, and that will NEVER change.

If they avoided airing live action stuff then they could possibly claim that they are the #1 cartoon station and since all they would air is cartoons then it wouldn't be a lie. But it looks as if live action is immenent.

[.bg]

CN needs to be a leader, not a follower to get out of 3rd Place. They need to start making things that don't suck, add more variety than marathons of Johnny Test, Chowder, and Flapjack every day, and overall, being the soul back to Cartoon Network. I remember I loved CN as a kid because it always had something good on (even if it was a repeat, they hadn't run the show to death then). CN had always been different from Disney and Nickelodeon, which is why I loved it.
Really? When CN was a leader, it was in third place with no signs of leaving the bottom. Now that CN's changed its image, it has a chance to do better in the ratings. Also, I remember crap on CN that I couldn't stand to watch. Are you telling me you liked Mike, Lu, and Og or Sitting Ducks?


They need to look to the past for what to do in the future, not look towards the present. This live-action tweencom crap is going to die out in a couple of years. If CN puts all its chips into tweencom crap, they'll still be in third place in five years.
No they won't. They'll simply move on to the next trend, like Nick and Disney. But, don't get me wrong, they won't forget about their past, and they sure as hell won't forget about cartoons.

[Starbro]

They need to start making things that don't suck, add more variety than marathons of Johnny Test, Chowder, and Flapjack every day, and overall, being the soul back to Cartoon Network.

The current shows on CN only suck in your opinion, which does not equal fact. It's also not an unbiased opinion, as it comes from someone who has stated repeatedly that Cartoon Network was so much better 10 years ago than it is now, which again is only your opinion. Lots of people think Chowder, Flapjack and Johnny Test are great shows. (I myself am a big fan of Chowder.) The reason those shows get so many marathons is because they consistently put the butts in the seats. CN wouldn't repeat them so much if everyone thought that they sucked, so clearly you're in the minority with that assessment.

[Blackstar]

They need to look to the past for what to do in the future, not look towards the present. This live-action tweencom crap is going to die out in a couple of years. If CN puts all its chips into tweencom crap, they'll still be in third place in five years.

Going retro wouldn't take CN out of 3rd place, if anything, it might push them back even further. I'm not pro-live action, but resurrecting the 90s Cartoon Network isn't the answer either. Time moves forward. The only way to counter a new idea is with another new idea. Nostalgia is good and all, but you can't feed and clothe yourself on it. You can't live in the past.

And for the record, no one at Cartoon Network never said anything about the network becoming reliant on tweencoms. None of the announced pilots are situation comedies. Also, I'm not a fan of the Disney Channel and Nick tweencoms, but the notion that they'll die out in a couple of years is bogus. Nick has been airing live action kidcoms since the early 90s. They're not going anywhere, but why should that matter when CN doesn't have any tweencoms coming down the pike is beyond me.

What really needs to happen is that Turner should create a separate stand alone kids' channel to compete with Nick and Disney Channel and leave Cartoon Network the way it is, but they don't want to do that; they'd rather transform Cartoon Network into an animation/Nick wanna be hybrid.

[Racattack!Force]

And if they looked at the past, they'd still be in third place. They've ALWAYS been in third place, and that will NEVER change.They used to be in second place quite frequently.

[Jeff Harris]

However, during that timeframe, they aired several extremely successful cartoons - such as Rugrats, Rocko, Spongebob, Ginger, Rocket Power, and Angry Beavers on Nick, or alternatively, Kim Possible, Lilo and Stitch, Dave the Barbarian, Brandy and Mr Whiskers, American Dragon, the Replacements, and Phineas and Ferb on Disney Channel. Animation has been a very large part (if not major) until very recently.I am very familiar with all of those shows. However, not all of those shows were popular nor translated into ratings. Rugrats, Spongebob, Fairly Oddparents (which you omitted), Hey Arnold,, and Ren and Stimpy were big, but they didn't dominate the lineups until the late 90s. See, they were mostly weekend morning shows for the large part until they acquired enough episodes.

Meanwhile, Disney's animated fare in the period you named, with the exception of Proud Family, Kim Possible, and Lilo and Stitch, never had fervent followings as the original fare on Nickelodeon nor Cartoon Network originals. Those ratings had been blah to say the least, which is why the television animation unit of Disney has all but closed up shop.


But Hannah Montana regularly draws better ratings than Spongebob.Now, but consider this. Spongebob has been around for a decade and could go on as long as it's profitable for Nickelodeon. Hannah Montana has, what, one, maybe two years left in it. As soon as the series' stars get old, they'll be phased out and replaced with something else. Ask the casts of Lizzie McGuire and Even Stevens.


You call Nickelodeon and Disney "kids' channels," but Nick has Nick at Nite and Disney used to have Vault Disney, both of which were clearly not aimed at children. They're aimed towards families, as is Cartoon Network. However, as you've pointed out, Disney used to have Vault Disney. They pushed the older programming off the lineup and pretty much became solely a kids' network. Nick at Nite's lineup lis largely modern, family-friendly sitcoms. Black and white and anything really controversial and adult aren't there.


I recall you whining on your blog a few years ago that these "people" all hated you and that you were an "enigma."First of all, I don't "whine." Not everybody at Cartoon Network hates me. I still have a few friends at the Williams Street side of the company. It's the current Techwood Drive side of the company that has a problem with me because I'm not one who'll agree with every decision that they made. I was used by that side to promote them, but once I started criticizing many of their decisions, that's when they treated me like I was a leper. Some folks even congratulated me because I said out loud what they were afraid to say publicly.

I said I'm an enigma because I'm a grown man who cares about animation. Animation is a dying artform, and Cartoon Network was the last channel that acted like they gave a damn about the medium. When the current crop of executives believe live-action is the answer to what ails Cartoon Network, then the network fails.


Again, let me re-iterate. Nick and Disney are CN's real competition. They have to start catching up with their category's trends, or they will stay in third place forever. It's not about whether the shows are good or bad. It's about whether or not they can make CN more profitable.But if nobody's watching, then a profit won't be made. Did you, perhaps, realize that the problem isn't what kind of shows they air but the quality of said programming? The movies aren't doing well. The live-action projects have largely been met with indifference (by the way, did you know the biggest audience for Re-Animated was the showing in which Cartoon Network pretty much bribed the viewers with a chunk of the $100,000 they were giving away? Money, I might add, could have bought a season's worth of an already-completed series from Canada at the time).

I'm an old man, and, to be perfectly honest with you, I really don't care about Cartoon Network the way I used to. I'm done "whining" about them, and I really wish the powers-that-be luck in whatever they do. They won't succeed, and they'll never be #1 because whatever Cartoon Network hits them with, Disney and Nickelodeon will outdo them and beat them. Cartoon Network needs something trully original, monsterous, and genre-shattering to break out from the pack, and these cookie-cutter live-action projects aren't it. And the last "monster" Cartoon Network had that they created was Powerpuff Girls.

Needless to say, it's going to take a while.

[Dudley]

What really needs to happen is that Turner should create a separate stand alone kids' channel to compete with Nick and Disney Channel and leave Cartoon Network the way it is, but they don't want to do that; they'd rather transform Cartoon Network into an animation/Nick wanna be hybrid.

When Cartoon Network visited my college, I asked them what's with the live-action push. And they mostly said they're losing money from ads to Nickelodeon. And they're trying their hardest to win it back.
Making a "Turner Kids" network would probably make Cartoon Network's situation worse, because to advertisers, the network IS a kid's channel.

[DarthGonzo]

Cartoon Network will never be #1. They'll never be #2. They should just embrace who they are and stick to the cartoons.

[BigMac]

I just want to know something: I'm not going to include Disney in it because they are currently number 1. What makes Nick better than today's Cartoon Network? I've been hearing that Nick' new nicktoons... well... "suck"... and Cartoon Network is still in 3º.

[DarthGonzo]

Nick has advertising and merchandising power. And they've been around much, much longer than CN. Plus they've got Spongebob, which is more popular and gets better ratings than anything on CN. And of course your going to hear that Nick's cartoons suck around here. These boards are 99.99% pro CN in the first place.

[warnerbroman]

They're aimed towards families, as is Cartoon Network. However, as you've pointed out, Disney used to have Vault Disney. They pushed the older programming off the lineup and pretty much became solely a kids' network. Nick at Nite's lineup lis largely modern, family-friendly sitcoms. Black and white and anything really controversial and adult aren't there.
. they have shows that use profanity unedited unlike CN

[.bg]

I am very familiar with all of those shows. However, not all of those shows were popular nor translated into ratings. Rugrats, Spongebob, Fairly Oddparents (which you omitted), Hey Arnold,, and Ren and Stimpy were big, but they didn't dominate the lineups until the late 90s. See, they were mostly weekend morning shows for the large part until they acquired enough episodes.
"In that timeframe" doesn't mean running from the beginning to the end of the years you mentioned.


Meanwhile, Disney's animated fare in the period you named, with the exception of Proud Family, Kim Possible, and Lilo and Stitch, never had fervent followings as the original fare on Nickelodeon nor Cartoon Network originals. Those ratings had been blah to say the least, which is why the television animation unit of Disney has all but closed up shop.
Amdrag has an extremely obsessive following. Just ask Name. ;)


Now, but consider this. Spongebob has been around for a decade and could go on as long as it's profitable for Nickelodeon. Hannah Montana has, what, one, maybe two years left in it. As soon as the series' stars get old, they'll be phased out and replaced with something else. Ask the casts of Lizzie McGuire and Even Stevens.
Yes, but all of those shows turn a profit, temporary as they may be, and the replacement shows always turn a profit as well. CN doesn't have the same luxury with its cartoons. It's always been very hit-or-miss for them.


They're aimed towards families, as is Cartoon Network. However, as you've pointed out, Disney used to have Vault Disney. They pushed the older programming off the lineup and pretty much became solely a kids' network. Nick at Nite's lineup lis largely modern, family-friendly sitcoms. Black and white and anything really controversial and adult aren't there.
They weren't edgy, but they were aimed at adults.


First of all, I don't "whine." Not everybody at Cartoon Network hates me. I still have a few friends at the Williams Street side of the company. It's the current Techwood Drive side of the company that has a problem with me because I'm not one who'll agree with every decision that they made. I was used by that side to promote them, but once I started criticizing many of their decisions, that's when they treated me like I was a leper. Some folks even congratulated me because I said out loud what they were afraid to say publicly.
Did they ever offer you a job? I'm sure you could have turned the network around.


I said I'm an enigma because I'm a grown man who cares about animation. Animation is a dying artform, and Cartoon Network was the last channel that acted like they gave a damn about the medium. When the current crop of executives believe live-action is the answer to what ails Cartoon Network, then the network fails.
Believe it or not, I'm a grown man who cares about animation too. I care enough about it that I'll defend CN in what they feel they need to do to continue producing animation.


But if nobody's watching, then a profit won't be made. Did you, perhaps, realize that the problem isn't what kind of shows they air but the quality of said programming? The movies aren't doing well. The live-action projects have largely been met with indifference (by the way, did you know the biggest audience for Re-Animated was the showing in which Cartoon Network pretty much bribed the viewers with a chunk of the $100,000 they were giving away? Money, I might add, could have bought a season's worth of an already-completed series from Canada at the time).
Plenty of networks hold contests. That's not a bad thing, and you never know, it could have attracted fans that would have stayed for the series if the movie wasn't so awful in the first place. They have a talented group of people making these series, though. They're pulling out the stops to not make the same mistakes they made with OOJH.

I believe CN can move up to second place, but it will take a number of things. It will take monster hit cartoons, I'll give you that. But, judging from the trends of the children's entertainment industry, it will also take live-action tweencoms and tween action shows. Sorry, but that's the way things go. If the television industry decided to go back to the past, they would die. Nobody watches variety shows anymore, and sadly, there's not an audience for a 24-hour animation network anymore.

Like I say about Toonami: get over it.

[Antiyonder]

Nobody watches variety shows anymore,

You've said before that variety is no longer in and that television loses against sites such as Hulu and YouTube. But isn't it possible that the reason people go on video sites is to view something that's on rarely or not at all?


and sadly, there's not an audience for a 24-hour animation network anymore.

As I've said on the matter before, there's the factor of how society views animation. See, kids today are in a hurry to grow up, and part of growing up in a sterotypical sense is to drop any activites perceived as being juvenile. Cartoons fall in that category.

Now what CN should try doing is to through the use of their ads is to convince the audience that animation is cool, that watching it doesn't diminish your maturity. That's what made the earlier years of CN successful.

[chdr]

You've said before that variety is no longer in and that television loses against sites such as Hulu and YouTube. But isn't it possible that the reason people go on video sites is to view something that's on rarely or not at all?
Rosie Live says otherwise.

[MegaJ]

Gettin' kinda personal up in here. :shrug:

Networks change. While I hate this Cartoon Network decision, I do have to admit that despite all the hate MTV and G4 get around here, they are doing a lot better than they did when they stuck to their original programming mission. MTV isn't doing so hot right now, but I think they over saturated the reality tv market, plus the music industry thisclose to bellying up so I don't blame MTV for getting out. Not to mention Fuse the "anti-MTV" is showing non-music programming so I guess a music channel just cannot survive.

Anyway. I guess the problem I have is that they were doing JUST FINE when they were staking out their own territory instead of following whatever Nickelodeon and Disney were doing and now they're playing catch-up to two networks they'll never beat.


and sadly, there's not an audience for a 24-hour animation network anymore.
Man, Nickelodeon is dumb for Nicktoons Network then. Hasn't their ratings GROWN as opposed to CN? If there wasn't an audience for animation, then why would Nickelodeon even make an all animation network? I think with the acquisition of the two Marvel shows for NN, Nickelodeon sensed the weakness CN was having and I think they want to stake out on their territory in the animation world.

[chdr]

Man, Nickelodeon is dumb for Nicktoons Network then. Hasn't their ratings GROWN as opposed to CN? If there wasn't an audience for animation, then why would Nickelodeon even make an all animation network? I think with the acquisition of the two Marvel shows for NN, Nickelodeon sensed the weakness CN was having and I think they want to stake out on their territory in the animation world.CN's ratings have been growing throughout 2008.

[Racattack!Force]

CN's ratings have been growing throughout 2008.But the first quarter was so awful, that the network had a loss this year.

[TheTerror]

Personaly I don't care if CN is #1 or #10000, as long as they play the Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday morning and AS lineups, I can deal.

[J!!!]

Well I guess we have a night for comedy,action,and live action now but who knows the block may just dissapear all of a sudden.

[Mickialla]

Well I guess we have a night for comedy,action,and live action now but who knows the block may just dissapear all of a sudden.

That's what I'm hoping for. Heck, I'm hoping the studio where all the live action is being done explodes and all of the equipment and scripts for the shows burn to ashes. With all of the actors and staff getting out safely of course. No, but seriously, I really hope this ends up just like the Duchovny project.

[MasterofRoku]

That's what I'm hoping for. Heck, I'm hoping the studio where all the live action is being done explodes and all of the equipment and scripts for the shows burn to ashes. With all of the actors and staff getting out safely of course. No, but seriously, I really hope this ends up just like the Duchovny project.
I doubt that's going to happen I expect at least 2-3 of these shows to slip through the cracks.

Anyway, let's wait for the audience to decide if the shows are good to stay.

[Freak]

Could it be because of the high ratings for RGT

[Jeff Harris]

"In that timeframe" doesn't mean running from the beginning to the end of the years you mentioned.Hey, you're the guy who put in the 1992-2006 timeframe, not me. I just talked about the trends of that particular 14-year period. I've paid attention to those Animation was never really the dominant medium on Nick and Disney in those periods. Not then and not now.


Yes, but all of those shows turn a profit, temporary as they may be, and the replacement shows always turn a profit as well. CN doesn't have the same luxury with its cartoons. It's always been very hit-or-miss for them.That could be the same for anything if you look at it that way. For every iCarly, there's a Mr. Meaty and My Brother and Me. For every SpongeBob SquarePants, there's a Catdog,and Brothers Flub. For every Hannah Montana, there's a Phil of the Future and Totally Hoops. For every Kim Possible, there's a Dave the Barbarian or Buzz on Maggie. It's always hit or miss in the industry, not just with animated shows.


They weren't edgy, but they were aimed at adults.What? The Vault Disney stuff or the current Nick at Nite stuff? The Vault Disney stuff aired late at night, but they were indeed family friendly. The Nick at Nite shows currently on the lineup are also very family-friendly and aimed for family consumption and hardly aimed at "just adults."


Did they ever offer you a job? I'm sure you could have turned the network around.Yeah, but this was after college and just before the regime change took place back in 2002, and a lot of folks that recently got hired were also the first ones to get fired.


Believe it or not, I'm a grown man who cares about animation too. I care enough about it that I'll defend CN in what they feel they need to do to continue producing animation.That's good to know, man. But I'd like to think they would try to at least talk more in depth about the animated projects they have on tap as well as the live-action projects. I'd really like to know more about Mice Templar myself.


Plenty of networks hold contests. That's not a bad thing, and you never know, it could have attracted fans that would have stayed for the series if the movie wasn't so awful in the first place. I don't have any problems with contests. I just have a problem with networks using bribery tactics just to get people to watch a movie and then gloat that this broadcast was high rated and omit the fact that they were offering the chance to win cash to watch it.

Plus, if the movie was actually pretty good, then why even commit to a stunt like that?


They have a talented group of people making these series, though.Including one of the folks behind Out of Jimmy's Head.


They're pulling out the stops to not make the same mistakes they made with OOJH.I believe that. However, I just don't want them to rush into any production.


I believe CN can move up to second place, but it will take a number of things. It will take monster hit cartoons, I'll give you that. But, judging from the trends of the children's entertainment industry, it will also take live-action tweencoms and tween action shows.And because of those trends, Cartoon Network can't go any higher. They will try, and they will fail.

But trends come and trends go.


Sorry, but that's the way things go. If the television industry decided to go back to the past, they would die.You know, technically speaking, these "tweencoms" are a trend from the past. Saved By The Bell (which was, by the way, based on a failed Disney Channel pilot that was retooled by NBC). The "tweencom" began in the '80s and '90s, but the term "tween" wasn't thought of. Look at shows like Hey Dude, Salute Your Shorts, Pete and Pete, Small Wonder, Clarissa Explains It All, Blossom, Family Matters, Parker Lewis, and other shows from that era. All have the hallmarks of "tweencoms," including young preadolescent stars and co-stars, tween-based topics, and other situations.


Nobody watches variety shows anymoreWhich is why Cartoon Network's revamping of Cartoon Cartoon Fridays to Cartoon Network Fridays was baffling to me.


And sadly, there's not an audience for a 24-hour animation network anymore.Guess somebody better tell that to Nickelodeon who runs Nicktoons Network and FUNimation, who runs The Funimation Channel.


Like I say about Toonami: get over it.See, why'd you have to drag the corpse in this conversation? Toonami's been dead since mid-2007. The plug was pulled last September. I know it's dead. Quit digging up corpses.

[chdr]

Which is why Cartoon Network's revamping of Cartoon Cartoon Fridays to Cartoon Network Fridays was baffling to me.
But that's packaging, not an actual program people have to sit through.

I doubt anyone is watching Clone Wars solely for the YAH packaging.

[TheTerror]

But that's packaging, not an actual program people have to sit through.

I doubt anyone is watching Clone Wars solely for the YAH packaging.

True, I think when it comes to a block people watch the block mainly for the premier shows, a nice packaging is just a cherry on the topping.

[Jeff Harris]

But that's packaging, not an actual program people have to sit through.Actually, the new Fridays concept wasn't just "packaging." They transformed it into a show in its own right with musical guests and sketches. It just happened to be in-between shows at the time.

It failed because there wasn't any interaction between the show and its viewers.

And no. Nobody's watching Clone Wars because of the You Are Here packaging.

[TheTerror]

Actually, the new Fridays concept wasn't just "packaging." They transformed it into a show in its own right with musical guests and sketches. It just happened to be in-between shows at the time.

It failed because there wasn't any interaction between the show and its viewers.

And no. Nobody's watching Clone Wars because of the You Are Here packaging.

Not that You are Here has back packaging, I just personaly think the shows are far superior to the packaging and the shows are the heart and soul of any block. Period.

[Jayngfet]

I have to admit that even with TOM4, I always liked toonami's packaging at least as much as its shows. I'd race home just to make sure I didn't miss the intro some days, and near the end I planned saturday evenings 'round toonamis reruns and filler. Tom seemed to talk with the viewer instead of at them, even Flash and D got good lines.There's also toonami's custom music, only once did they use an external theme, which was from [AS], not an unrelated group. I'd go on but Im on a PSP an d ran out of r

[TheTerror]

I have to admit that even with TOM4, I always liked toonami's packaging at least as much as its shows. I'd race home just to make sure I didn't miss the intro some days, and near the end I planned saturday evenings 'round toonamis reruns and filler. Tom seemed to talk with the viewer instead of at them, even Flash and D got good lines.There's also toonami's custom music, only once did they use an external theme, which was from [AS], not an unrelated group. I'd go on but Im on a PSP an d ran out of r

I enjoyed the Toonami packaging too, I enjoy the YAH packaging as well, but other than these two blocks I dont remember ever really caring much for block packaging. I do look back fondly at old ABC bumper and some Fox Kids bumps, but other than that not much.

[Blackstar]

A program block is only as good as the shows that air on it. Impressive packaging doesn't amount to a hill of beans if the shows themselves aren't worth watching.

[TheTerror]

A program block is only as good as the shows that air on it. Impressive packaging doesn't amount to a hill of beans if the shows themselves aren't worth watching.

I have to agree to the fact that if Toonami or YAH aired crap shows or constant fillers then I would not have watched. Heck, when Toonami began airing reruns and massive ammounts of fillers and I lost interest I stopped watching, and the two or three weeks that YAH aired nothing but reruns I stopped watching too. The packaging is a nice touch to enjoy while the shows are on break or whatnot, it just adds to the experience, but it's all about the shows.

[Starbro]

:^: Yeah, what's important on a program block are the shows themselves. Cool, interesting wraparounds like on Toonami or Miguzi are a nice bonus, like sprinkles on a cupcake, but they're not a necessity. Ultimately, it's the quality of the shows that counts.

[.bg]

Hey, you're the guy who put in the 1992-2006 timeframe, not me. I just talked about the trends of that particular 14-year period. I've paid attention to those Animation was never really the dominant medium on Nick and Disney in those periods. Not then and not now.No, but my point was that there was more of a focus on cartoons, not that they were dominant.


That could be the same for anything if you look at it that way. For every iCarly, there's a Mr. Meaty and My Brother and Me. For every SpongeBob SquarePants, there's a Catdog,and Brothers Flub. For every Hannah Montana, there's a Phil of the Future and Totally Hoops. For every Kim Possible, there's a Dave the Barbarian or Buzz on Maggie. It's always hit or miss in the industry, not just with animated shows.
But it's three times as hit-and-miss for Cartoon Network. They don't have the spending power of Nick or the famous name of Disney. They have to prove themselves as the one to watch for kids.


That's good to know, man. But I'd like to think they would try to at least talk more in depth about the animated projects they have on tap as well as the live-action projects. I'd really like to know more about Mice Templar myself.
They probably will talk more in-depth about them. It's a bit hard not to when you're called Cartoon Network and cartoons make up your entire schedule.


I don't have any problems with contests. I just have a problem with networks using bribery tactics just to get people to watch a movie and then gloat that this broadcast was high rated and omit the fact that they were offering the chance to win cash to watch it.
It's not ethical, but hey, that's television.


Plus, if the movie was actually pretty good, then why even commit to a stunt like that?
To build even more excitement over the movie, maybe?


I believe that. However, I just don't want them to rush into any production.
Nobody's rushing. They haven't set any premiere dates or greenlighted any series yet.


And because of those trends, Cartoon Network can't go any higher. They will try, and they will fail.
And how exactly do you know that? Do you have a time machine that took you to the future and showed you the ratings results of their live-action series?


But trends come and trends go.
And then it's on to the next one.


You know, technically speaking, these "tweencoms" are a trend from the past. Saved By The Bell (which was, by the way, based on a failed Disney Channel pilot that was retooled by NBC). The "tweencom" began in the '80s and '90s, but the term "tween" wasn't thought of. Look at shows like Hey Dude, Salute Your Shorts, Pete and Pete, Small Wonder, Clarissa Explains It All, Blossom, Family Matters, Parker Lewis, and other shows from that era. All have the hallmarks of "tweencoms," including young preadolescent stars and co-stars, tween-based topics, and other situations.
The tweencoms of the '90s are very different from the tweencoms of today. Whereas the shows you mentioned were targeting teenagers, today's tweencoms are targeting pre-teens. Of course the '90s shows would be edgier and different.


Which is why Cartoon Network's revamping of Cartoon Cartoon Fridays to Cartoon Network Fridays was baffling to me.
I didn't like it either, but, admittedly, the CCF format was getting extremely stale, especially when they stopped giving out the codes to a certain online game we aren't allowed to discuss here. It was a much-needed change.


Guess somebody better tell that to Nickelodeon who runs Nicktoons Network and FUNimation, who runs The Funimation Channel.
Those are digital cable channels, and Funi is stuck in availability hell with Boomerang. Even if the ratings increased drastically, they'd still be miniscule compared to even basic cable. Not exactly a widespread audience.

By the way, Jeff, I have a trivia question for you.

Why did Disney initially start making live-action movies?
To fund more expensive animated projects.

[warnerbroman]

:^: Yeah, what's important on a program block are the shows themselves. Cool, interesting wraparounds like on Toonami or Miguzi are a nice bonus, like sprinkles on a cupcake, but they're not a necessity. Ultimately, it's the quality of the shows that counts.even better if the wraparound intract with the shows

[Jeff Harris]

No, but my point was that there was more of a focus on cartoons, not that they were dominant.Maybe I misunderstood the point, but it did seem like you were trying to say that animation was a dominant focus on Nickelodeon and Disney Channel. And I said they weren't based on what you were presenting. And when I called you on that, well, you change the questions as I give the answers.


But it's three times as hit-and-miss for Cartoon Network. They don't have the spending power of Nick or the famous name of Disney. They have to prove themselves as the one to watch for kids.But WHY do they have to prove themselves to be the one for kids to watch? If they make quality products, then kids WILL watch.

Yes, Nickelodeon has spending power. Viacom believes in the company and regularly pumps in funds into the company. Time Warner does not believe that Cartoon Network can do anything, and they're pretty much on their own, striking deals with third-party companies like Fox, Viz, Sony, and others rather than getting help from second-parties at Time Warner like Warner Animation and Warner Bros. Pictures.

Yes, Disney is a famous name. They've been around longer and longevity is in their favor. They've spent over 80 years to create that image, one that, I may add, extends in many venues beyond television. Meanwhile, Cartoon Network is just limited to television. It's nobody's fault but Time Warner's. Time Warner could make a legitimate brand out of Cartoon Network, especially their animated productions, outside of television, but, at least not in the United States, they haven't. There's no effort to extend the brand beyond the confines of television and the internet, and that's why they'll continue to languish.

The reason Nickelodeon is so big is because in the 1990s, they did extend their brand beyond television with touring events, theme park attractions, theatrical productions, and other media. That's why they're the number one brand in the minds of the nation's youth. Disney took Nickelodeon's approach and recreated Disney Channel in their image and created essentially a girl-friendly Nickelodeon clone and made it all their own. That's why they're going to become number one.

Meanwhile, Cartoon Network still looks to be television and internet-only. That's why they're still are and will remain in third place. It's not because 90% of their lineup is animation.


They probably will talk more in-depth about them. Why probably?


Nobody's rushing. They haven't set any premiere dates or greenlighted any series yet.They have greenlit a couple of those projects, which is why they mentioned them in the public in the first place. They don't really go around talking about pilots they have no real interest in producing to the media, do they? Again, you don't see them talking about their animated pilots to mainstream outlets like Variety or The Hollywood Reporter, do you?


And how exactly do you know that? Do you have a time machine that took you to the future and showed you the ratings results of their live-action series? No. I pay attention to history. History tells me that Nickelodeon and Disney Channel will always one-up Cartoon Network, especially with their live-action projects, to the point that they'll be genre-setting programs. With Nickelodeon, it's every five years. With Dieney Channel, it's every three years. Cartoon Network does that every ten years. In 1998, they had The Powerpuff Girls. In 2008, they had Total Drama Island.


The tweencoms of the '90s are very different from the tweencoms of today. Whereas the shows you mentioned were targeting teenagers, today's tweencoms are targeting pre-teens. Of course the '90s shows would be edgier and different.Pete and Pete was not aimed towards teens. Neither were Welcome Freshmen, Clarissa, Salute Your Shorts, and Hey Dude. Those Nick shows were explicitly aimed towards the 9-12 demographic, which are commonly referred to as "tweens." They were the first series created by Nickelodeon to exclusively cater to that demographic and were all trailblazers. And definitely not aimed towards teenagers.


(Nicktoons Network and Funimation Channel) are digital cable channels, and Funi is stuck in availability hell with Boomerang.With newer services like Verizon FiOS and the growing nature of the cable/satellite industry, those channels are popping up everywhere. Plus, Funimation is on a few digital subchannels on broadcast television in some markets.


Even if the ratings increased drastically, they'd still be miniscule compared to even basic cable. Not exactly a widespread audience.Well, Disney is turning Toon Disney into Disney XD, and its ratings are terrible, and yet, Cartoon Network is hellbent on emulating that channel's action drama direction mixing it in with their sitcoms and cartoons. And even with all the hoopla and all the change, Disney XD is still going to be in fewer households and will still have minuscule ratings compared to Cartoon Network.


By the way, Jeff, I have a trivia question for you. Why did Disney initially start making live-action movies? To fund more expensive animated projects.Actually, that's partially true.

Remember, when Disney started making live-action productions and needed funds to work on that as well. They were expanding the business beyond films and shorts. Disneyland was not only the name of the Anaheim-based theme park but also the name of the first television series made by Walt Disney used to sell the public on the idea of that dream. In short, the world's first infomercial. The live-action productions from that and subsequent shows led to the creation of live-action films department. In fact, animated productions actually dwindled for almost two decades while live-action productions dominated Disney's creative slate.

Just like now. And who said history doesn't repeat itself?

[Jayngfet]

You know, I don't understand why everyone says that they need live action, it's not like CN hasn't been increasing in ratings since the beginning of the year, getting even better after destroying the kids bumps and OOJH, and Ending the DAS.

And Jeff, the spleen is a useful body part, it filters blood cells and prevents infections. Go with the appendix.

[chdr]

You know, I don't understand why everyone says that they need live action, it's not like CN hasn't been increasing in ratings since the beginning of the year, getting even better after destroying the kids bumps and OOJH, and Ending the DAS.

And Jeff, the spleen is a useful body part, it filters blood cells and prevents infections. Go with the appendix.Yes, they have. A lot.

edit - nvm

[Jave]

Yes, they have. A lot.Uh, read what he said more closely, he's actually stating that CN HAS been increasing in ratings.

[Blueranger]

The real question is how where will these shows go?
I think it'll seem random to air over 5 Live Action shows then switch back to regular Cartoons.

[Starbro]

The real question is how where will these shows go?
I think it'll seem random to air over 5 Live Action shows then switch back to regular Cartoons.


CN is planning to launch a live-action block in 2010, provided that the 3 greenlit LA shows do well enough, of course.

[warnerbroman]

CN is planning to launch a live-action block in 2010, provided that the 3 greenlit LA shows do well enough, of course.sigh...... somewhere there is a peacock crying

[BigMac]

CN is planning to launch a live-action block in 2010, provided that the 3 greenlit LA shows do well enough, of course.

Let's hope they don't even air...

[Starbro]

CN has already sank money into the production of the 3 greenlit shows and has announced them publicly, so they're going to air. How long they last, however, depends on the kind of ratings they can muster. If they pull an OOJH and sink like the Titanic, we can pretty much rule out the chances of a live-action block next year.

[BigMac]

CN has already sank money into the production of the 3 greenlit shows and has announced them publicly, so they're going to air. How long they last, however, depends on the kind of ratings they can muster. If they pull an OOJH and sink like the Titanic, we can pretty much rule out the chances of a live-action block next year.

Just one thing: This is only for next year. I think we should enjoy how CN is doing this year and only care about this next year...

What? Are we going to complain about live action shows that are coming next year? Or here in 2 years?

[Jayngfet]

We still have to worry about this. No way this is going to go away if we ignore it.

[chdr]

We still have to worry about this. No way this is going to go away if we ignore it.I would be worried, if it wasn't for the fact that CN has been pumping out better shows, acquiring great series, aiming to an older audience (according to an artist working on The Cartoonstitute, the show will be aimed to an older audience than CN Studios' usual fare) and overall learning they can beat the competition with cartoons. This is a pretty bad hiccup, but I think they're generally on the right track.

[Blackstar]

We still have to worry about this. No way this is going to go away if we ignore it.

OK, let's not hit the PANIC button. There's no need for that, yet. Cartoon Network's decision to give live action programming another shot isn't great news, or even good news, but it's not the 1st sign of Armageddon either. The very worst case scenario is that CN will become Nickelodeon Too, a kids' channel with a mixture of animated and non-animated children's programming and that the channel will officially change it's name to CN, never revealing what the 'C' stands for. CN survived the era of Fried Dynamite and Out of Jimmy's Head, and it will survive this also. Let's just see how well the pilot does and wait for what happens after that.

[Jayngfet]

OK, let's not hit the PANIC button. There's no need for that, yet. Cartoon Network's decision to give live action programming another shot isn't great news, or even good news, but it's not the 1st sign of Armageddon either. The very worst case scenario is that CN will become Nickelodeon Too, a kids' channel with a mixture of animated and non-animated children's programming and that the channel will officially change it's name to CN, never revealing what the 'C' stands for. CN survived the era of Fried Dynamite and Out of Jimmy's Head, and it will survive this also. Let's just see how well the pilot does and wait for what happens after that.

Yes I may have overreacted, but you're worst case scenario isn't exactly made of sunshine.

[BigMac]

What about Fridays? That was a live-action block! And everybody liked it!

Wish it came back...

[Antiyonder]

What about Fridays? That was a live-action block! And everybody liked it!

Wish it came back...

There's a difference between segments and shows. As long as the segments contain an animated show, they fit on the network.

[Baltofan]

I just saw it this morning while visiting my family that has CN.

Hope it just was a dream.

[Blackstar]

Yes I may have overreacted, but you're worst case scenario isn't exactly made of sunshine.

...Which is why I described it as a "worst case scenario".


What about Fridays? That was a live-action block! And everybody liked it!

No, it wasn't. Fridays was an animation block with live action host segments. Not the same thing. Live action wraparounds between cartoons don't count as live action shows. CN has been doing those since Day 1.

[R-Taco]

What about Fridays? That was a live-action block! And everybody liked it!

Wish it came back...

That was an animation block with live-action bumps, and I can't recall anyone praising the bumps.

[Dr.Pepper]

That was an animation block with live-action bumps, and I can't recall anyone praising the bumps.
People liked Tara:sweat:

[Blueranger]

I think it's best to just wait and see how the shows are and what are they about before passing judgment.

[.bg]

People liked Tara:sweat:
Just one somewhat-creepy person, and we all know who that is.

Fridays, frankly, sucked. The little kids grated, the hosts thought they were funnier than they actually were, and the choices for musical guest were mediocre at best.

[Dr.Pepper]

Fridays, frankly, sucked. The little kids grated, the hosts thought they were funnier than they actually were, and the choices for musical guest were mediocre at best.
I wouldn't go as far as saying that it sucked. The first few months with Nzinga with alright but it got worse when it became more "random".

[Mickialla]

Fridays wasn't awesome, but I did like the "Fruit Naming Kitten" and the puppet truck driver segments. And it was definitely waaay better than Fried Dynamite.

CCF> Fridays> Fried Dynamite.

It's simple as that.

[J!!!]

Fridays wasn't awesome, but I did like the "Fruit Naming Kitten" and the puppet truck driver segments. And it was definitely waaay better than Fried Dynamite.

CCF> Fridays> Fried Dynamite.

It's simple as that.
Fridays made all the weeks even the ones that stinked fell a little better by the hosts silliness alone , something that CCF or fried dynamite could ever do.

[Mickialla]

Fridays made all the weeks even the ones that stinked fell a little better by the hosts silliness alone , something that CCF or fried dynamite could ever do.

Your probably the first person I've heard say that Fridays was better than CCF. To each his own I suppose.

[J!!!]

Your probably the first person I've heard say that Fridays was better than CCF. To each his own I suppose.
Well I'm probably the only person here who's bedtime was only 2 hours into CCF :sweat:

[Mickialla]

Well I'm probably the only person here who's bedtime was only 2 hours into CCF :sweat:

:eek: Bedtimes on Fridays?? That's a crime. I remember watching CCF all night long sometimes. This was back when Adult Swim was still treated as a block. Let me tell you, you missed out on a great block.

[macattack]

I would be worried, if it wasn't for the fact that CN has been pumping out better shows, acquiring great series, aiming to an older audience (according to an artist working on The Cartoonstitute, the show will be aimed to an older audience than CN Studios' usual fare) and overall learning they can beat the competition with cartoons. This is a pretty bad hiccup, but I think they're generally on the right track.

Acquiring what? Star Wars, Batman, and now Total Drama Action. They've acquired NOTHING ELSE other than Pokemon episodes for the new year, as its apparent they've probably rejected Naruto Shippudden and they've finished TDI and stopped 6teen premieres.

This is a far cry from CN at its prime, when it had as many acquisitions as originals on the network and they all worked well.

[Mickialla]

Acquiring what? Star Wars, Batman, and now Total Drama Action. They've acquired NOTHING ELSE other than Pokemon episodes for the new year, as its apparent they've probably rejected Naruto Shippudden and they've finished TDI and stopped 6teen premieres.

This is a far cry from CN at its prime, when it had as many acquisitions as originals on the network and they all worked well.

In fact, they had MORE acquisitions than originals. When you add up all the WB acquisitions and all the anime, that's a big pile of acquisitions, even compared to CN's booming originals, which, at the time, were probably the most originals the studio was producing at once. And though the few acuisitions they've acquired and the few originals they're producing are relatively good, they just barely take the hit from this live-action plan. Barely.

[J!!!]

:eek: Bedtimes on Fridays?? That's a crime. I remember watching CCF all night long sometimes. This was back when Adult Swim was still treated as a block. Let me tell you, you missed out on a great block.
I don't think it was a crime it's just I either could stay up on Friday or Saturday for as long as I wanted (I was about 7 when CCF was on) and I always chose Saturday.

[Jayngfet]

I always stayed up both nights. I remember staying up all night and catching saturday morning cartoons before sleeping til sunday afternoon if nothing was on that night.

[The Huntsman]

Cartoon Network has partnered with the NBA (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i6668f273615aca0023c5235c436a893e) to create various content about the sport; I assume that most of which, if not all of it, will be live-action. The first one is a shortform series, whatever that means, about the children of professional athletes. CN's website will also have a special section devoted entirely to the sport.

[NewcomerDC]

Cartoon Network has partnered with the NBA (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i6668f273615aca0023c5235c436a893e) to create various content about the sport; I assume that most of which, if not all of it, will be live-action. The first one is a shortform series, whatever that means, about the children of professional athletes. CN's website will also have a special section devoted entirely to the sport.
LAAAAAAME. It's pretty much ripping of what Disney XD is doing with EPSN with having the Top 5 Moments in Sports for the past week being broadcast during the morning hours. Why couldn't CN had done this but just had the shows/commercials aired on TNT and/or TBS?

[Mesousa]

LAAAAAAME. It's pretty much ripping of what Disney XD is doing with EPSN with having the Top 5 Moments in Sports for the past week being broadcast during the morning hours. Why couldn't CN had done this but just had the shows/commercials aired on TNT and/or TBS?

I think CN did that before.

[Racattack!Force]

LAAAAAAME. It's pretty much ripping of what Disney XD is doing with EPSN with having the Top 5 Moments in Sports for the past week being broadcast during the morning hours. Why couldn't CN had done this but just had the shows/commercials aired on TNT and/or TBS?...Cartoon Network actually did something like this long before Disney XD was even a thought. I'm okay with this though. If it's one of those little shorts that air during commercials, then it's good.:sweat:

[BigMac]

Cartoon Network has partnered with the NBA (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i6668f273615aca0023c5235c436a893e) to create various content about the sport; I assume that most of which, if not all of it, will be live-action. The first one is a shortform series, whatever that means, about the children of professional athletes. CN's website will also have a special section devoted entirely to the sport.

I must be drunk by saying this but... i kinda like that idea. Even though it is a live-action series, it's a sport themed series. Maybe it's got something to do with Get Animated or with NBA TV being managed by Turner.

[chdr]

Cartoon Network has partnered with the NBA (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i6668f273615aca0023c5235c436a893e) to create various content about the sport; I assume that most of which, if not all of it, will be live-action. The first one is a shortform series, whatever that means, about the children of professional athletes. CN's website will also have a special section devoted entirely to the sport.That essentially means short 2-minute segments, sort of like the Wedgies.

Eh, it's not like they haven't done this before. CN used to do NBA specials all the time way back when.

[Jayngfet]

Wait, now we're embracing live action? Weren't you the same people saying no live action, no matter weather or not it's good? Unless this basketball stuf is animated I'm against it.

[Gonzales]

Wait, now we're embracing live action? Weren't you the same people saying no live action, no matter weather or not it's good? Unless this basketball stuf is animated I'm against it.
I agree. All this "sports is awesome" crap on a lot of channels is really getting old.

[Raidon Makoto]

Sounds like that Props crap they had a couple years ago.

I hated Props.

[The Huntsman]

Wait, now we're embracing live action? Weren't you the same people saying no live action, no matter weather or not it's good? Unless this basketball stuf is animated I'm against it.Pardon? I don’t understand what you mean. The title of this thread is referring to the fact that the network is embracing live-action, as they believe that it is an integral part of their continued success. I think most people on Toon Zone still think that it’s a bad idea.

[Mickialla]

Pardon? I don’t understand what you mean. The title of this thread is referring to the fact that the network is embracing live-action, as they believe that it is an integral part of their continued success. I think most people on Toon Zone still think that it’s a bad idea.

I think he's referring to how most people don't seem to mind the short NBA thing CN is planning on doing. Personally, I'm just neutral for it. If it's not a full fledged show or movie, I won't go bananas. Short live-action shorts are fine with me, if they have something, anything to do with animation. That's one of the reasons I didn't like Props. If they can find any way to incorporate animation into the shorts, I'd be fine. Like maybe having a cartoon character interview the NBA stars' children and talk about their lives. IMO that'd be a great way for Cartoon Network to show their embracing of sports but still be cartoon-relevant.

[Blackstar]

Wait, now we're embracing live action? Weren't you the same people saying no live action, no matter weather or not it's good? Unless this basketball stuf is animated I'm against it.

Am I embracing live action on CN? No. Have I accepted it as an inevitability? Perhaps.

Don't get me wrong. I still think that live action should stay the frell off of CARTOON Network. However, it's become painfully apparent to me that the folks in charge of CN have the live action itch and that producing non-animated programs to air on the channel is the only way they know how to scratch it. If the titanic failure of Out of Jimmy's Head didn't dissuade CN from bringing in live action, then nothing will. It's not that I suddenly like the idea of CARTOON Network having a live action block (I sure as smeg don't!), but it's obvious that this is something that CN is determined to do, and all of the kvetching in the world isn't going to change their minds. I'm just going to continue to watch the shows on CN that interest me and ignore the ones that don't, animated or non-animated.

As for the B-Ball thing, it sounds as if their just going to be spots that will air between programs on CN, and it's not like CN has never done anything like this before. Does anyone remember those wanna be cool skateboarding spots that aired during Toonami? Like Mickiala already said, I'd prefer it if the spots were at least somehow obliquely connected to animation in some way, but as long as I can switch to another channel when they come on, I really don't care.

[Antiyonder]

Like maybe having a cartoon character interview the NBA stars' children and talk about their lives. IMO that'd be a great way for Cartoon Network to show their embracing of sports but still be cartoon-relevant.

Great idea.:D

Which is why Cartoon Network won't consider it.:mad:

[I.D.Will19??]

It would be neat if they aired Slam Dunk along with it. There's already a NBA player (I want to say Juwan Howard) who is helping to support the manga.

[Raidon Makoto]

So, they're making eight live-action series? And all of them sound horrible. And not only that, but five of them are horrible reality/game shows. Two are those wish-fulfillment dramas, and one is some Viral Video countdown (G4 can't make it work, CN, how can you?).

This is sickening.

[ShadowGUN]

For those wondering here the link (http://news.turner.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=4334)for the full upfront including the live action stuff.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii239/w00tzorz/1208809543920.jpg?t=1237998322 (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii239/w00tzorz/1208809543920.jpg?t=1237998322)

*sigh*
Most of those reality shows sound like rip off of other reality shows. Especially The Othersiders and Survive This.

[Jeff Harris]

Let's see . . . Cartoon Network has ripped off Ghost Hunters, The Adrenaline Project, and Wreckreation Nation with The Othersiders, Survive This, and Destroy Build Destroy, respectively. The other three reality shows are blah.

I'm actually more curious about the scripted pilots they're planning, particularly Prepped, which sound like it could be the closest thing to an American-made Prisoner if handled by the right people. What? Paul Dini's behind this one? I'm tentatively in.

I don't like live-action on Cartoon Network, and I don't have to watch it. The animated fare is very fun this season to say the least.

[Antiyonder]

“These exciting new projects represent the next phase in Cartoon Network’s ambitious, ongoing strategy to re-invent the network and re-energize our youth business overall,” said Stuart Snyder, president and chief operating officer of Turner Broadcasting’s Animation, Young Adults and Kids Media division.

Now I always thought that ambition meant to achieve success through hardwork and effort, and not through laziness, but that's just me.


“We’ve built tremendous momentum over the last year, both on air and through our thriving digital businesses, so we’re thrilled to introduce new content that our audience cannot find anywhere else.

Yeah, live action programming is so hard to come by, that Cartoon Network needs to obtain some LA shows to help the struggling medium to thrive. [sarcasm]

Seriously, people will watch cartoons more often if you can prove that the medium isn't kid/geek fodder. Just have some top celebrities profess their interest in the medium and mainstream viewers will actually tune in.

Now the Ben 10 and Scooby movie is sensible at least.

[Raidon Makoto]

Yeah, live action programming is so hard to come by, that Cartoon Network needs to obtain some LA shows to help the struggling medium to thrive. [sarcasm]
As an addendum to your sarcastic comment, you can't find anime (for people over the age of seven) anywhere else. Too bad CN's xenophobia is stopping them from making gobs of money.

[Starbro]

As an addendum to your sarcastic comment, you can't find anime (for people over the age of seven) anywhere else. Too bad CN's xenophobia is stopping them from making gobs of money.

CN needs to be convinced that airing anime would make them gobs of money. That's the whole point.

After the Pokemon/Dragon Ball Z/Yu-Gi-Oh! boom, nearly every cable and kids' network began importing anime shows left and right in the hopes of repeating the powerful success of those shows, and all but a select few of them tanked, so now CN, like many networks, seems wary of acquiring any more out of fear of getting burned again. Add to that how their competitors such as Nick and Disney Channel are doing just fine ratings-wise by airing no anime at all, and there's just not a lot of incentive for CN to start acquiring more anime shows.

But let's not turn this into another discussion about anime. The outrage here is for CN's straying from animation in general, not just Japanese animation.

[Raidon Makoto]

CN needs to be convinced that airing anime would make them gobs of money. That's the whole point.

After the Pokemon/Dragon Ball Z/Yu-Gi-Oh! boom, nearly every cable and kids' network began importing anime shows left and right in the hopes of repeating the powerful success of those shows, and all but a select few tanked, so now CN, like many networks, seems wary of acquiring any more. Add to that how their competitors such as Nick and others are doing just fine ratings-wise by airing no anime at all, and there's just not a lot of incentive for CN to start acquiring more anime shows.
Except, again, Naruto was doing great and One Piece's ratings were rising (both completely unadvertised I must add), and CN still killed them. Oh, and by great, I mean better than some of YAH's current fare.

[King]

It was a bad idea to move Toonami block to Saturdays, and take it off in air later on insead trying to fix it. And now Cartoonnetwork want to make Live-Action shows in a channel that only show's cartoons?!

What the?!!?

[Jtaylor1]

They also ripped off a Discovery Kids show and ABC's America's Funniest Home Videos

Destroy Build Destroy
Bobb'e Says

R.I.P. Cartoon Network (1992-2009)

[DarthGonzo]

Except, again, Naruto was doing great and One Piece's ratings were rising (both completely unadvertised I must add), and CN still killed them. Oh, and by great, I mean better than some of YAH's current fare.

Is it possible that - just this once - this "CN hates anime and YAH sucks" stuff can be given a rest? I don't even see how it's on topic for this discussion.

Shame this is the direction that things are going in. If I still watched CN I supposed I'd probably care more. At least there are a few new animated series coming up that'll balance it out, right?

[NewcomerDC]

Okay, okay. Now everyone. I hate these shows. Why? It's not because some of them are live-action pilots in the works but because they stole an idea.

MINE.

I actually had the same idea of this Generator Rex. My idea was called Symbiote and it was word for word pretty much what I had tried to accomplish only there was no secret organization enlisting him. Plus instead of nanites that have been overdone so many times from Agent Cody Banks to Teen Titans (2003). Now I didn't have a patent on my creations since I didn't do the mailing charracters/storyline to myself but the thing is the show's arised from a Powerpuff Girl parody I created at summer camp back in 2002.

Thing is I'm ABSOLUTELY hating everything CN is doing for the next few years and quite frankly I'm up for the name change. If we have to deal with mediocre animated series making fun of the reality show genre then they're just as bad as having those kinds of shows in real life on CN. And besides the overrated and most popular Adventure Time, Ben 10: Evolutions? What is this, a repeat of Dragonball Evolution? A crappy name for a series that didn't just go through puberty a year ago in Ben 10: Alien Force?:mad:

CN can just bury its own grave and die because unless they STOP stealing ideas from other series and from the minds of other creative, undiscovered geniuses, this network would be alright.

I do want CN to get on the ball with new fare for the future generation that won't have to deal with the reality crap we've been getting for quite some time and with everything coming to an end even with news about Power Rangers getting another season and Naruto: Shippuden is going to be getting dubbed soon, CN is headed to the Crossroads.

[BigMac]

For those wondering here the link (http://news.turner.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=4334)for the full upfront including the live action stuff.

They forgot to put Cartoonstitute! Still, from the live action series they proposed i'd give a chance to The Othersiders.

[{Shadow}]

They forgot to put Cartoonstitute!
The Cartoonstitute was already announced at last year's Upfront (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/22696/pr-moving-forward-the-force-is-with-cartoon-network).

[Jeff Harris]

I actually had the same idea of this Generator Rex. My idea was called Symbiote and it was word for word pretty much what I had tried to accomplish only there was no secret organization enlisting him. Plus instead of nanites that have been overdone so many times from Agent Cody Banks to Teen Titans (2003). Now I didn't have a patent on my creations since I didn't do the mailing charracters/storyline to myself but the thing is the show's arised from a Powerpuff Girl parody I created at summer camp back in 2002.Calm down, my friend. You can't just go around claiming theft without proof. Did you send your idea to Cartoon Network? Did you save anything from your idea if you did. Otherwise, it's just a coincidence that Generator Rex sounds like your idea for Symbiote. Man of Action is comprised of a group of comic creators and have been in the business of creating for a while now.

I mean, if they did steal from a kid, that's kind of bad. I've been there (http://www.thexbridge.com/birthofnetwork.html). Of course, I wasn't a kid. I was a grown man.

[NewcomerDC]

Calm down, my friend. You can't just go around claiming theft without proof. Did you send your idea to Cartoon Network? Did you save anything from your idea if you did. Otherwise, it's just a coincidence that Generator Rex sounds like your idea for Symbiote. Man of Action is comprised of a group of comic creators and have been in the business of creating for a while now.

I mean, if they did steal from a kid, that's kind of bad. I've been there (http://www.thexbridge.com/birthofnetwork.html). Of course, I wasn't a kid. I was a grown man.
Never sent the idea but I've been trying to creat my own animated series/comic books since I had the interest in getting into the business. I'm not that professional where I know everything about sending an idea and submitting it to companies. Not sure if Generator Rex has been in the works for years but it seems that it could've came around during the process of finishing up the original Ben 10 series.

[macattack]

Jeez, there's nearly as many live-action projects as there are animated. And the vast majority of them are reality programming. Something is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very wrong here.

The only one that looks like it has any potential is Prepped. And even then it is a concept done cheaper with animation and voice actors.

I will disrespectfully ignore the reality programming and respectfully ignore the scripted live-action while protesting them all the while.

As for anime . . . that is something not found anywhere else on US TV unless you watch Sci fi (oh, sorry, Syfy) Channel on Monday late-nights. Why isn't CN airing that stuff, then, as well as European animation?

CN is doing nothing but trying to become copycat of Nick and Disney, and that will result in the network's ratings and relevance downfall.

[Raditz]

I really hope these shows fail terribly. Or else we're gonna have another "SyFy" on our hands. :shrug:

[Dudley]

Eight live-action programs.
On the Cartoon Network.

Even though, I have the choice not to watch any of this, I'm appalled that CN is going to be airing these.
If a majority of the shows bomb, that's good. If they all bomb, that's even better. If a lot of these shows go toe to toe with ratings on Nickelodeon, then we're screwed. Because if that were to occur, Cartoon Network will probably end and replaced by the "Children's Network" within the decade.
That's the worst case-scenario, anyway.

[Kitschensyngk]

I read the descriptions of some of these live-action shows and I'm getting the following respective vibes:

The Othersiders = Ghost Hunters
Dude, What Would Happen = Mythbusters
Head Rush = Hurl! (from G4 last summer)
Bobb'e Says = Any YouTube playlist/America's Funniest Home Videos

All coming this fall on the Generic Kids' Channel Formerly Known as Cartoon Network.

What "sage wisdom" could you get out of a viral video? "Don't brush your teeth with shampoo"?

[macattack]

I read the descriptions of some of these live-action shows and I'm getting the following respective vibes:

The Othersiders = Ghost Hunters
Dude, What Would Happen = Mythbusters
Head Rush = Hurl! (from G4 last summer)
Bobb'e Says = Any YouTube playlist/America's Funniest Home Videos

All coming this fall on the Generic Kids' Channel Formerly Known as Cartoon Network.

What "sage wisdom" could you get out of a viral video? "Don't brush your teeth with shampoo"?

Don't drink Diet Coke while eating Mentos? That there's too many videos of She-Hulk's transformation? That when an Abridged Series is more entertaining than the actual show there's a problem with the actual show? That "Barack, Paper, Scissors" is pointless and addicting?

[DeanBurrito25]

I'm not going to go ballistic about this, all I'm going to say is that I hope that this live-action stuff does poorly and live action isn't seen on CN again. It's called Cartoon Network for a reason.

Honestly, didn't they learn anything from Out of Jimmy's Head? It all comes down to this:
Live Action + Cartoon Network = :ack:
Cartoons + Cartoon Network = :)

But hey, if CN's really wants their channel to go down the gutter, then whatever. They'll just have to learn the hard way I guess. :sad:

[macattack]

IMO, Prepped will be a hit. It's got too much potential and quality behind it for it to fail. Even if everything else bombs, Prepped will be successful enough to ensure a live-action presence on CN for at least the next three or four years.

Mark my words on this.

[Gonzales]

I love how the term "Cartoon Network" means absolutely nothing anymore.

It's like Toonami UK all over again.

[moonmaster]

Apperently CN didn't understand that OOJH failed miserably and that live-action doesn't belong on a channel called CARTOON Network. I hope these shows crash and burn.

[Starbro]

Originally Posted by Moi http://forums.toonzone.net/images/buttons/buttons_tvc/viewpost.gif (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?p=3197849#post3197849)
CN needs to be convinced that airing anime would make them gobs of money. That's the whole point.

After the Pokemon/Dragon Ball Z/Yu-Gi-Oh! boom, nearly every cable and kids' network began importing anime shows left and right in the hopes of repeating the powerful success of those shows, and all but a select few tanked, so now CN, like many networks, seems wary of acquiring any more. Add to that how their competitors such as Nick and others are doing just fine ratings-wise by airing no anime at all, and there's just not a lot of incentive for CN to start acquiring more anime shows.

Except, again, Naruto was doing great and One Piece's ratings were rising (both completely unadvertised I must add), and CN still killed them. Oh, and by great, I mean better than some of YAH's current fare.

I don't know how the CN Suits think, and I'm not going to pretend that I do, but we can all agree that there is some reason why both shows were yanked from CN's schedule so abruptly. For whatever reason, someone at CN didn't want those shows to continue on the network, make of that what you will.

And I know that you like to trash YAH (and every show on CN that isn't an anime) whenever you get the chance, but please refrain from doing so here, as it's a) strictly your opinion; just because you don't enjoy the shows on YAH doesn't mean that they're not worthy or entertaining programs, and b) it's irrelevant to the topic at hand. Let's please leave the "CN hates anime" and "CN sucks now" remarks at the door and stick to the subject, could we?


Apperently CN didn't understand that OOJH failed miserably and that live-action doesn't belong on a channel called CARTOON Network. I hope these shows crash and burn.

In all fairness, OOJH didn't fail because it was live-action; it failed because it wasn't very good. Obviously, it's being a live-action show on an animation channel didn't help endure it to fans.

[Gonzales]

Let's refrain from bossing others members around, if that's possible.

Anyway, I don't think it's a question of convincing. CN's success up to 2003, as well as the past year, proves that animation can indeed be very profitable. It's just clear that CN doesn't really want to do that anymore.

[Blackstar]

:^:Time Out: I'd just like to point out that making a suggestion for another member not to stray from the thread's topic isn't "bossing" said member. The "CN hates anime" rants won't add anything constructive or worthwhile to this particular discussion, and anime has little (if anything) to with CN's decision to embrace live action. Silverstar only suggested that we keep this discussion about live action on CN, and I think that's a good idea. Let's all try to remain civil to each other, if that's possible.

Time In-Back to the topic:

It's all about the ratings, man. CN wants Nickelodeon's numbers, and they think that having a mixture of live action and animation is the way to accomplish this goal. What they don't realize is that having a live action block on CARTOON Network brings the channel 1 step closer to becoming another cable TV ghetto like G4, just another genral entertainment channel whose original purpose has been lost in the abyss. It's sad, really.

The obvious solution to this would be for Time Warner to create a generally kids' channel and to air their non-animated projects on said channel, but that would cost money, more money than Time Warner is willing to shell out to make that happen.

[NewcomerDC]

The obvious solution to this would be for Time Warner to create a generally kids' channel and to air their non-animated projects on said channel, but that would cost money, more money than Time Warner is willing to shell out to make that happen.
Thing is, if this doesn't happen, will we see the decrease of original animated programming both original and rip-offs and continue to see more of these unoriginal live-action series?

[Racattack!Force]

IMO, Prepped will be a hit. It's got too much potential and quality behind it for it to fail. Even if everything else bombs, Prepped will be successful enough to ensure a live-action presence on CN for at least the next three or four years.

Mark my words on this.I agree with this. While everything else should fail, Prepped will definitely become a hit. Which is why I'm hoping they change it into an animated series.

[NewcomerDC]

I agree with this. While everything else should fail, Prepped will definitely become a hit. Which is why I'm hoping they change it into an animated series.
Nah, I think that the show would be okay for The N but not for CN.

*two seconds later*

I'll retract my statement.

The show WOULD be a good idea since most kids have always felt like they were trapped in school. There could be a lot of potential to this show. However, the show could use a snazzier title.

[Blackstar]

Thing is, if this doesn't happen, will we see the decrease of original animated programming both original and rip-offs and continue to see more of these unoriginal live-action series?

The only way we'll see more original live action shows on CN is if 1 or more of the ones that currently in production do well in the ratings. If any of the non-animated shows bring in monster sized ratings for CN, then this will undoubtedly lead to the creation of more. However, if all of the live action projects pull and Out of Jimmy's Head and fail miserably, then CN will be forced to rethink it's strategy. CNReal may not be a complete failure for the network, but we can hope (*crosses fingers*).

[garfield15]

Dude, What Would Happen: This series stars three adventurous teens who ask and answer imaginative questions such as, "Dude, what would happen if you attached 350 helium balloons to a sumo wrestler?" A series so over-the-top, you just might learn something.
......Isn't this...Mythbusters? Except with teenagers?

This made me stop reading the article.

[NewcomerDC]

......Isn't this...Mythbusters? Except with teenagers?

This made me stop reading the article.
Well CN gets points taken off for creativity.

[Gonzales]

Every one of these live-action things rips off something. Makes me wonder who came up with these ideas.

[Nexonius]

That guy who came to CN in 2008 from Sci-Fi Channel.

[Racattack!Force]

That guy who came to CN in 2008 from Sci-Fi Channel.Explains so much. :sweat:

[NewcomerDC]

That guy who came to CN in 2008 from Sci-Fi Channel.
Surprised that he couldn't come up with a decent anime block since we're on the topic of what ideas from Sci-Fi were being used for the rebranding of CN.

On-Topic: I'm still mad that CN had to steal one of my animated show ideas and hope that it'll never gain as much popularity like its predecessor Ben 10. For those who have read the Upfront, they'll know what I'm talking about.

[Bloody Marquis]

Explains so much. :sweat:
Indeed.

[Mesousa]

Surprised that he couldn't come up with a decent anime block since we're on the topic of what ideas from Sci-Fi were being used for the rebranding of CN.

Cause maybe he's not one of the guys who worked on Ani-Monday?

Really, I think people already have heard my opinion on this; that I'm just gonna ignore the live-action shows, and not whine, like most people have done here.

No offense, but it's sort of true, some people overreact.

[MasterofRoku]

I'm not going to go ballistic about this, all I'm going to say is that I hope that this live-action stuff does poorly and live action isn't seen on CN again. It's called Cartoon Network for a reason.

Honestly, didn't they learn anything from Out of Jimmy's Head? It all comes down to this:
Live Action + Cartoon Network = :ack:
Cartoons + Cartoon Network = :)

But hey, if CN's really wants their channel to go down the gutter, then whatever. They'll just have to learn the hard way I guess. :sad:

I've said this once and I'll say it again: the only reason CN is dabbling with LA is due to the success of Reanimated & Ben 10: RAT and that's because those were advertised heavily on the network. We didn't have to worry about them because they're attached to animation, so nobody wouldn't worry that much.

So far, only 2 LA shows have failed on the network and there have been 2 succesful movies. Right now, we're stuck with a tie...for now.

[chdr]

I've said this once and I'll say it again: the only reason CN is dabbling with LA is due to the success of Reanimated & Ben 10: RAT and that's because those were advertised heavily on the network. We didn't have to worry about them because they're attached to animation, so nobody wouldn't worry that much.

So far, only 2 LA shows have failed on the network and there have been 2 succesful movies. Right now, we're stuck with a tie...for now.Goosebumps didn't fail. They stopped airing it because they only had the rights until last November.

[Marvin Tikvah]

I'm still mad that CN had to steal one of my animated show ideas and hope that it'll never gain as much popularity like its predecessor Ben 10. For those who have read the Upfront, they'll know what I'm talking about.

Get over it man. People in entertainment always lift or borrow others concepts and ideas and try to profit from them. Don't go about whining about how you were robbed of money when there's a big chance you weren't the only one who came up with such a concept.

I just wonder how CN will hype these live action shows when they come close to debut. I'm guessing most of it will be gone in a year, but if not, I fear the worst.

[Racattack!Force]

On-Topic: I'm still mad that CN had to steal one of my animated show ideas and hope that it'll never gain as much popularity like its predecessor Ben 10. For those who have read the Upfront, they'll know what I'm talking about.Come on, your idea wasn't that original. I've thought of a similar thing also. :sweat:

[NewcomerDC]

Get over it man. People in entertainment always lift or borrow others concepts and ideas and try to profit from them. Don't go about whining about how you were robbed of money when there's a big chance you weren't the only one who came up with such a concept.
Off-Topic: I don't know if I can get over it but if ya had an idea that's pretty much new to other people and not to yourself since some of the ideas were borrowed from books, movies, etc, then you have that chance to tell the world, "I have this great show idea and I hope that it'll be good enough to be made into a full-length series" or something to that extent. Of course I'll get over it but as for now, it's so difficult coming up with anything original these days. Most people would've revolutionized television but now have to sit on the sidelines while all of that profit theyt could've made goes bye-bye.

I just wonder how CN will hype these live action shows when they come close to debut. I'm guessing most of it will be gone in a year, but if not, I fear the worst.
On-Topic: I'll give the new shows a year to see if they'll connect with the kids. They won't go up and gone after a few months like Out of Jimmy's Head. Maybe the shows will debut on I-Tunes or online so that we can comment and discuss about what can be improved before the shows get their airtime on CN in the Fall or sometime next year.

[Blueranger]

They aired a teaser of this Live Action show, airing in the Summer. It looks like a teenage Ghost Hunters.

[Aces 21]

Goosebumps didn't fail. They stopped airing it because they only had the rights until last November.

I believe he meant Zixx. But I could be wrong on that one.

[MasterofRoku]

I believe he meant Zixx. But I could be wrong on that one.
Yeah I was talking about Zixx and OOJH being failures. I didn't want to incorperate goosebumps because I forgot about it. And it was an 'oddball' to me.

And I think that teaser that looks like chosthunters is the othersiders.

[Starbro]

Yeah I was talking about Zixx and OOJH being failures. I didn't want to incorperate goosebumps because I forgot about it. And it was an 'oddball' to me.

Also, Goosebumps wasn't an original CN production; they were just the same episodes which previously aired on Fox Kids.

[Mickialla]

That guy who came to CN in 2008 from Sci-Fi Channel.

Do you know his name perchance? I haven't read about that anywhere.

As for all of this live action trash, I can only hope that the kids who watch it will remember Out of Jimmy's Head. Here's the thing; Out of Jimmy's Head was a part of the old regime. When the new execs came in, they obviously felt they could do a better job programming the network than the old staff did. So far, so good. Now they think that Out of Jimmy's Head failed on the network because it was poorly executed, and that they want to see if they can do better and take live action and make it watchable on the network. Out of Jimmy's Head lasted about half a year, give or take. When more than half of these projects fail the same way Jimmy's Head did, they will realize that live action on CARTOON Network, no matter how good, will not do good; and then I think it's safe to say stuff like CN Real won't happen next year.

[NewcomerDC]

Do you know his name perchance? I haven't read about that anywhere.

As for all of this live action trash, I can only hope that the kids who watch it will remember Out of Jimmy's Head.
With children's minds they can go from one thing to the next in a fast pace when it comes to jumping on the next big thing. I doubt that they would remember OOJH. If they do, then they could still watch these live-action shows whether or not they're not pleasing to the eye or ears if we have to get so crummy dialogue.

[Lord Mawdryn]

Live action is here to stay on CN, IMO. It's what the network really wants to do these days in order to compete with both Nick and Disney Channel, and even if half of these proposed projects fail, it won't stop them from developing more and more live action projects.

Cartoon Network will probably be known as having mostly cartoons, but the days of it being exclusively cartoons ended quite awhile ago. For good or for ill, CN is going the route of its competitors...

[Racattack!Force]

Now they think that Out of Jimmy's Head failed on the network because it was poorly executed, and that they want to see if they can do better and take live action and make it watchable on the network.You can't blame them, since that's true. OOJH WAS badly executed.

[MasterofRoku]

You can't blame them, since that's true. OOJH WAS badly executed.
Yeah, if some of these shows aren't as obnoxious or poorly executed as (OOJH & Fried Dynamite) I can expect them to stay for couple of years. :sweat:

[Starbro]

:^: As I said a page back, OOJH didn't fail because it was live-action; it failed because it was just...bad. Fried Dynamite wasn't a show per se, the live-action segments were just wraparounds to introduce the cartoons. CN has utilized live-action host segments before (Fridays, Carrot Top's AM Mayhem, etc.), so I personally don't count that.

The Hindenburg disaster that was OOJH is probably why none of these new live-action shows slated to run on CN are comedies. CN seems to think that live-action comedies are now a no-no, but that they can make live-action adventure, reality and game shows work.

Only time will tell of course, but personally none of these live-action projects are of any interest to me (though to be fair, neither are a fraction of their upcoming animated projects). OOJH at least had some potentially interesting characters and concepts.

[Blackstar]

Live action is here to stay on CN, IMO. It's what the network really wants to do these days in order to compete with both Nick and Disney Channel, and even if half of these proposed projects fail, it won't stop them from developing more and more live action projects.

Cartoon Network will probably be known as having mostly cartoons, but the days of it being exclusively cartoons ended quite awhile ago. For good or for ill, CN is going the route of its competitors...

The above is sad, but true. Cartoon Network is going the way of MTV. It would be preferable if the live action stuff will only air on the block that's designated for it. However, in that event, the channel really needs to be re-branded. It's no skin off my nose if CN wants to become a general kids' entertainment channel, but I don't understand why they won't just remove the word 'cartoon' from it's name? What irks me the most about this is how they're continuing to call the channel CARTOON Network, as if animation is still their top priority when this is clearly not the case. It seems as if CN is insulting the intelligence of it's audience by saying "Yes, we're doing live action stuff now, but we're still the Cartoon Network that you know and love." At least be straight with us, CN. Stop talking BS to the public and acting like you still want to be a cartoon channel when you clearly don't anymore. Even a 5-year-old understands that a channel called CARTOON Network is supposed to be at least 98% cartoons.

If the execs would just give the channel a new name that doesn't have the magic 'C' word in it, then they can put any kind of program they want on it without fans screaming "But it's CARTOON Network!" in their ears.

[THE 24 king]

Cable station no longer living up to its name, will get in to live-action reality shows, scripted programs.

http://image.com.com/tv/images/genie_images/story/2009/b/ben10alienforce.jpg (http://www.tv.com/ben-10-alien-force/show/74606/summary.html)Ben 10 going live action!


First MTV stops showing music videos, now this? Cartoon Network is sticking with the "Network" portion of its name, but ditching the strictly "Cartoon" bit, the company announced today. Nineteen new projects were announced, and less than half will be hand-drawn.
"These exciting new projects represent the next phase in Cartoon Network's ambitious, ongoing strategy to re-invent the network and re-energize our youth business overall," said Stuart Snyder.
These new non-cartoons will start airing in the coming 2009-2010 season and feature reality and scripted programs, most of which sound like pint-sized versions of programs currently airing on other networks.
Highlights: The Othersiders is a mini-Ghost Hunters, with five friends exploring scary places; Destroy Build Destroy is like Human Wrecking Balls, with two teams blowing stuff up; Dude, What Would Happen is a Mythbusters clone; Bobb'e Says takes the ridiculously funny child actor Bobb'e J. Thompson (Human Giant, Role Models) in his own take of America's Funniest Home Videos.

[Bloody Marquis]

We already have this in the Entertainment boards.

[Dark Fact]

Time to drop Cartoon Network like a bad habit. They're now trying to be like the Discovery Channel, only lamer. :mad:

[Plague Rat]

Nineteen new projects were announced, and less than half will be hand-drawn.

WHAT?

We did have this topic originally in the entertainment boards, but maybe if a mod can merge this topic with the other one would work, since this new specific info would actually aid the topic.

[DeanBurrito25]

Well, Cartoon Network is going in the wrong direction.
I'm not sure if I'll be able to watch it anymore. :shrug:

[RonDrakenfan17]

Well they'll still have good animated shows up, just a bit of mix. But I don't know they've had all animated for a while, to change it is a bit weird. Course there trying to keep up with the ratings.

[jerrymouse16]

And So, It All Comes Down To This: R.I.P. Cartoon Network (1992-2009) :crying:

[Mesousa]

This is gonna turn into a bashing topic. :shrug:

Someone close this thread.

[DarthGonzo]

Good thing I don't watch this channel anymore.

[Antiyonder]

Course there trying to keep up with the ratings.

Thing is, they're simply trying to compete against Nickelodeon and The Disney Channel, which is a losing battle.

And frankly their success can't definitively be determined by their live action programs as there are other factors that keep them ahead of Cartoon Network:

1. Nickelodeon and The Disney Channel actually have support if their parent company (Viacom and The Walt Disney Company respectively).
2. Nickelodeon and The Disney Channel both have been around longer, thus having time as an advantage.
3. Plus of course, they have other channels in the respective company to advertise the networks to unwary viewers.

[Plague Rat]

3. Plus of course, they have other channels in the respective company to advertise the networks to unwary viewers.
Don't they have the Turner Broadcasting networks like TNT?

[Antiyonder]

Don't they have the Turner Broadcasting networks like TNT?

Sure, but unless they run ads for Cartoon Network (much like how there are Playhouse Disney ads on ABC Family), then my point still stands.

Point is the other networks have support from their parent company whereas Warner Bros cares very little for Cartoon Network. And fact is the kid that has parential love and support will go further than the kid with the negligent parents.

[THE 24 king]

so this look like the real reason why toonami went of the network

[PC!]

Who wants to bet the channel changes it's name to "CN" at some point in the future? Anyone? Anyone?

Anyway, it's definitely annoying the network apparently no longer cares about living up to its name, but as long as it continues to air entertaining programming, I'll watch it.

[Blackstar]

so this look like the real reason why toonami went of the network

No. Cartoon Network's "new direction" has nothing to do with Toonami's cancellation. Toonami was faltering in the ratings, so the block was going to go away, live action or no live action. I understand that most of us here (myself included) don't like or agree with CN's decision to embrace live action programming, but let's not start scapegoating live action as the reason why Toonami came to an end, because it simply isn't true.

Anyway, this thread is quite redundant, as there's already a thread about this in the Entertainment Forum. Perhaps a mod could merge these 2 threads?

[SuperMegaHyper]

No. Cartoon Network's "new direction" has nothing to do with Toonami's cancellation. Toonami was going away, live action or no live action.
That still dosen't make any damn sense, buuuuut I refrain to talk anymore about it because nothing good can come from it.:shrug:

[Blackstar]

That still dosen't make any damn sense, buuuuut I refrain to talk anymore about it because nothing good can come from it.:shrug:

Hey, I don't like it either, but it's a done deal. CN is going to go ahead with this decision, like it or not. CN is taking the MTV/G4 route because they want to compete with Nickelodeon and Disney Channel, and also because Turner wants to have a kids' entertainment channel of their own, but Time Warner won't give them the money to create one, so Turner is using the closest thing they have to one, Cartoon Network.

Yeah, it stinks, but what can we do? CN has made up ttheir minds that this how they're going to go. Thankfully, I haven't watched everything on CN for a few years now, and I'm just going to treat CN like I do every other channel; I'm going to watch the shows that I care about and ignore the ones that I don't. There's nothing else to do.

[Antiyonder]

Hey, I don't like it either, but it's a done deal. CN is going to go ahead with this decision, like it or not. CN is taking the MTV/G4 route because they want to compete with Nickelodeon and Disney Channel,

Frankly, I chalk it down to the majority of higher ups not liking animation, and using the competition bit as an excuse to change format.

[Eddy]

Cartoon Network has been dead for a while now.

[Vidfreak]

The channel has been garbage for a long time , i completely stopped watching it over a year ago when i saw how everything was going downhill.

[Starbro]

:^: Wow, so much hate for Cartoon Network, and the live-action block hasn't even debuted yet.

FTR, I watch some shows on CN. I'm a big Chowder fan, I enjoy The Secret Saturdays and Flapjack and Brave & the Bold are OK.

[Antiyonder]

Cartoon Network has been dead for a while now.


The channel has been garbage for a long time , i completely stopped watching it over a year ago when i saw how everything was going downhill.

2007 I agreed with that, but the line up and quality of the cartoons have gone up from My Gym Partner's A Monkey, Camp Lazlo and Squirrel Boy.

[J. B. Warner]

I predict there will be a point in the not-too-distant future when all TV networks become exactly the same. Cartoon Network is already bent on turning itself into Nickelodeon, and they're bent on turning into the Disney Channel, and so on...

[CottonSwab]

Or we can all just ignore the live action stuff on Cartoon Network and make sure to watch only the shows that we like and then Cartoon Network wouldn't be so bad. I have said this in a thread elsewhere on the boards, but complaining is not going to change the fact that CN will continue to air shows that some people will not like and it looks like live action is going to be a field they seem to want to play on, so all we can really do is let them do it and hope it fails. I plan to watch what I like and ignore what I dislike and go about my business as usualy, by doing this I won't have to subject myself to material that I don't approve of CN showing. Of course it will still be there, but it's something I can't control and it's something that the fans can't control, so the best thing we can do is ignore it. It's not like Secret Saturdays, Batman, Ben 10, Chowder, Flapjack and other great shows are going anywhere, they will still be there but just mixed in with whatever new shows CN decides to air. No biggie.

[Blackstar]

The cold, hard truth of the matter is that CN stopped being "all toons" some time ago. Non-animated movies have been airing on The Flicks for a while now, and the infamous Out of Jimmy's Head was around on CN in 2007. And let's not forget about Ben 10: Race Against Time. This didn't just happen.

However, as was previously stated, there will still be cartoons airing on CN. The network will just be like Nickelodeon-a mix of live action and animation. As long as CN is still airing Chowder, The Secret Saturdays, The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack and other animated shows that I care about, I can just ignore the live action crell. It's not like anyone is being forced to watch of any of it.

[Ed Liu]

I took the liberty of merging the thread on the General Animation board with the older one on the Entertainment Board.

Carry on.

[Rolling Cloud]

:^: Wow, so much hate for Cartoon Network, and the live-action block hasn't even debuted yet.

You forget what board you're on. =P

[Antiyonder]

Or we can all just ignore the live action stuff on Cartoon Network and make sure to watch only the shows that we like and then Cartoon Network wouldn't be so bad. I have said this in a thread elsewhere on the boards, but complaining is not going to change the fact that CN will continue to air shows that some people will not like and it looks like live action is going to be a field they seem to want to play on, so all we can really do is let them do it and hope it fails. I plan to watch what I like and ignore what I dislike and go about my business as usualy, by doing this I won't have to subject myself to material that I don't approve of CN showing. Of course it will still be there, but it's something I can't control and it's something that the fans can't control, so the best thing we can do is ignore it. It's not like Secret Saturdays, Batman, Ben 10, Chowder, Flapjack and other great shows are going anywhere, they will still be there but just mixed in with whatever new shows CN decides to air. No biggie.

It's not so much the network going against the identity, but the fact that alternatives for animation are lax compared to earlier in the decade. Lets take a look at alternatives for animation:

Funimation Channel: Highly unavailable.
Boomerang: Highly unavailable.
Nicktoon: More available than Boomerang, but not so much.
Disney XD: More available that both of the above, but the majority of animation is played at night.

Nickelodeon: The only basic cable network that has a good number of hours dedicated to animation, and even then has a small number of titles.
The Disney Channel: A meager portion during the day with the rest at night.
Fox: Sunday Evenings pretty much.
CW: Saturday Mornings only.
Sci-Fi: An hour and only on Monday.
Comedy Central: About maybe 3-4 titles, I'm not too sure.

Now if other networks had a fair quantity of animation and/or Nicktoons/Boomerang/Funimation Channel was available, I wouldn't find it to be a big deal. It's all about the need for alternatives

[CottonSwab]

The cold, hard truth of the matter is that CN stopped being &quot;all toons&quot; some time ago. Non-animated movies have been airing on The Flicks for a while now, and the infamous Out of Jimmy's Head was around on CN in 2007. And let's not forget about Ben 10: Race Against Time. This didn't just happen.

Blackstar is 100% right. This isn't a change, it's a transition. A transition is something that takes place over a period of time and the way that CN has sprinkled in small ammounts of live action projects over the course of the past few years definatly set the stage for this to happen, but again, if we don't like what we see then the best we can do is ignore it and focus on the projects we enjoy from CN. Every network has shows that appeal to it's core fanbase and they also have shows that the core fanbase can't stand and CN is in a position where they feel they need to stay up with the times and if that means switching formats to a "general kids network" then thats what they are going to do to stay competitive.

[Starbro]

I agree that this move is absurd, but it's a business decision. CN wants a bigger piece of that sweet, sweet ratings candy, and they think becoming a Nick clone is how they'll get it, so there we go. CN is a business first and a crowd pleaser second.

I'd be more upset if the shows I enjoy on CN (Secret Saturdays, Chowder, Flapjack, Batman: B&tB) were going away, but as long as there's something on CN that I still want to watch, then I'll continue to watch them and I won't watch the stuff that I don't like or doesn't interest me, just like before. The network is changing, sure, but my viewing habits aren't going to.

[Gonzales]

When all is said and done, there isn't any reason for CN to air live-action. The shows are all based off of tired ideas anyway.

[Plague Rat]

The concept of live-action on CN bothers me less than the fact that the amount of animation the CARTOON Network plans on airing is a lot less than it should be. Live action mixed in with animation, that's alright, but it sounds more like live action is trying to earn dominance over the channel. Just like MTV became the Hormonal Teen Network, CN will now become the Cheap Live Action Network.

[macattack]

When all is said and done, there isn't any reason for CN to air live-action. The shows are all based off of tired ideas anyway.

Prepped is the only one that has any originality in it IMO, and it is the one people think will be a hit. Even purists like Jeff Harris have admitted the concept is pretty good.

One hit is all it takes to open the floodgates . . .

[Wind-Dive]

The concept of live-action on CN bothers me less than the fact that the amount of animation the CARTOON Network plans on airing is a lot less than it should be. Live action mixed in with animation, that's alright, but it sounds more like live action is trying to earn dominance over the channel. Just like MTV became the Hormonal Teen Network, CN will now become the Cheap Live Action Network.

Yup I totally agree. Not everyone is watching cartoons these days and well people see live action as part of their reality to live and be entertained. And cartoons are getting older and older and well, I'm still gonna watch cartoons no matter what they (people) say. And everybody has a kid inside them.

[Antiyonder]

Not everyone is watching cartoons these days and well people see live action as part of their reality to live and be entertained.

I still say that if the general viewing public could be convinced that watching cartoons has no bearing on maturity or intelligence, that they would be embraced a great deal more. The problem is more that people are afraid of their social status being called into question rather than their entertainment preferences.

[Raidon Makoto]

Prepped is the only one that has any originality in it IMO, and it is the one people think will be a hit. Even purists like Jeff Harris have admitted the concept is pretty good.

One hit is all it takes to open the floodgates . . .
There's always the chance someone could appeal to Mr. Dini and ask him to leave the project for the good of CN. The probability of their success would be slim to none though.

[The Huntsman]

Survive This: An exciting reality series challenges teenagers ages 14 to 17 to push their limits, overcome fears and develop lifelong survival skills. Hosted by Les Stroud (Survivorman), each episode aims to test endurance, wit and self-determination.

How did I miss that? That man is awesome; I guess I’ll be watching some live-action on Cartoon Network after all. I might also be willing to watch “Destroy, Build, Destroy”, since it sounds a lot like that old “Junkyard Wars” show that I used to watch. I guess this isn’t the sign of the apocalypse after all, at least not for me.

[chdr]

How did I miss that? That man is awesome; I guess I’ll be watching some live-action on Cartoon Network after all. I might also be willing to watch “Destroy, Build, Destroy”, since it sounds a lot like that old “Junkyard Wars” show that I used to watch. I guess this isn’t the sign of the apocalypse after all, at least not for me.Yeah. To be honest, CN is going to keep airing live-action no matter what we say, so I'm just going to watch what I like and ignore what I don't, mainly because there is good live-action projects coming out this year (like Prepped).

[Racattack!Force]

There's always the chance someone could appeal to Mr. Dini and ask him to leave the project for the good of CN.I'd rather the show turns animated. On a side note, CN just launched "The Othersiders" website...and it looks GOOD. Like they actually put effort into making it. :eek:

[macattack]

All right, I am officially defeated then. CN's headstrong, steadfast, George W. Bush-esque determination to put Live-Action on the network was almost enough, but the reaction of people saying the LA actually looks good is the final straw.

I'm done. I'm done trying to save what is clearly a lost cause. I've mentioned in the past that I've wanted to work at CN but I think in three-four years there won't be a CN.


Surprised that he couldn't come up with a decent anime block since we're on the topic of what ideas from Sci-Fi were being used for the rebranding of CN.

Maybe he left Sci-fi because he couldn't stand the anime. [/snark]

[Racattack!Force]

Maybe he left Sci-fi because he couldn't stand the anime. [/snark]That may have a joke, but I actually think that's true. :sweat:

[chdr]

All right, I am officially defeated then. CN's headstrong, steadfast, George W. Bush-esque determination to put Live-Action on the network was almost enough, but the reaction of people saying the LA actually looks good is the final straw.
I don't see what's the problem with that. CN isn't going to stop producing live-action, so they might as well produce good live-action.

[J!!!]

That may have been a joke, but I actually think that's true. :sweat:
That's kinda mean he could have left because of a lot of other things....... like the cruddy name change.

[macattack]

I don't see what's the problem with that. CN isn't going to stop producing live-action, so they might as well produce good live-action.

Maybe I'm a radical when it comes to channel purity, but I feel that a channel called Cartoon Network has no business producing live-action of any kind, good or bad. Same with Sci-fi airing a wrestling program, the CW turning into Lifetime-lite, or AMC airing "Catwoman".


That may have a joke, but I actually think that's true. :sweat:

I wouldn't be surprised either, even though that was supposed to be a dark joke.

[J!!!]

Maybe I'm a radical when it comes to channel purity, but I feel that a channel called Cartoon Network has no business producing live-action of any kind, good or bad. Same with Sci-fi airing a wrestling program, the CW turning into Lifetime-lite, or AMC airing "Catwoman".
Who knows what could happen CN may crack a uknown gold mine of new viewers but we won't what will happens till it comes.

[chdr]

Maybe I'm a radical when it comes to channel purity, but I feel that a channel called Cartoon Network has no business producing live-action of any kind, good or bad. Same with Sci-fi airing a wrestling program, the CW turning into Lifetime-lite, or AMC airing "Catwoman".
I don't think that CN should be airing live-action, but the fact is they are.

I'm tired of complaining all the time, so I might as well enjoy it.

[macattack]

I don't think that CN should be airing live-action, but the fact is they are.

I'm tired of complaining all the time, so I might as well enjoy it.

Do what you want to do, it's your life and your TV. I will not feed the machine that has been steadily devouring Cartoon Network since last year.

[DarthGonzo]

Do what you want to do, it's your life and your TV. I will not feed the machine that has been steadily devouring Cartoon Network since last year.

We've been down this road regarding this topic over and over again.

At this point I think the best course of action if you don't like the direction CN is taking is to either watch the stuff you like (ignoring what you don't like) or just stop watching the channel entirely. Complaining accomplishes nothing and what's going to happen is what's going to happen.