Old Gods vs. New Gods

[Squall]

I don't understand the whole Old Gods/New Gods/THE God setup, or how it works, in the DC Universe. (Or, at least, the Dini/Timm version of it.)

What's the difference between an Old God and a New God? And what makes all these gods different from THE God in the DC Universe? Is being a god a step up from being a simple sentient being, but a step down from being THE God?

If Superman could successfully take on a New God like Darkseid, why couldn't he also successfully take on an Old God like Hades? Hades backhanded Superman so hard in "Paradise Lost", Part II, that Superman bounced! (Does older = stronger when it comes to gods?)

Also, Darkseid rules his own little corner of our Galaxy, right? (New Genesis also rules their own corner of our Galaxy then too, I assume?) And these little corners of the Galaxy exist in our dimension, right? But Zeus basically controls the Overworld, and Hades controls the Underwold, both of which are in different dimensions, though with access to our dimension. So it sounds like to me that Zeus and Hades have a distinct advantage over Darkseid and Highfather...

Speaking of Zeus and Hades (and the other Greek gods), do they exist only to Earth, or are they present everywhere, since their realms are another dimension? Do the gods known to us Humans as "Greek" appear on other planets, just like they have on ours, but appeared differently to alien species, and were thus given different names?

And while I'm thinking about it, why isn't Earth involved in the more diverse, integrated Galaxy? Both John Stewart's trial and War World were filled with a myriad of alien species, but without a Human anywhere. Is Earth in an isolated corner of the Galaxy, too far away to be worth traveling to or from for most alien species? Does Earth's governments (and Atlantis, Gorilla City, etc.), know what's going on out there, but chooses to stay isolated and not get inolved???

These are burning (and timeless, I'm sure) questions. Please help! :(

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

Anybody else, please feel free to jump in here and correct me, since I'm quite sure I'm getting a goodly amount of this wrong. Apologies in advance for any I'm about to offend with any religious statement (which I assure you is made almost entirely in ignorance -- see above comment about corrections).

In the comics, at least, the divisions are as follows:

- "Old" Gods: These are the mythological figures like Zeus, Hades, etc. I believe they're technically categorized as just beings of immense power, who ended up getting worshipped by Earth beings. I'd toss in Greek, Roman, and Norse gods from the DC canon here, as well as Rama Kushna (the female god who granted Deadman his powers).

- "New" Gods: All of these were creations of Jack "King" Kirby, in an effort to push the boundaries of comics into truly epic scopes. Unfortunately, most of them have ended up being mostly more heroes in spandex. They are also beings of incredible power (tho' that doesn't really explain Mr. Miracle...), but never ended up with the worship of the Old Gods.

- THE God: Whether it's the Christian, Judaic, or Muslim supreme deity, this God (substitute with "Allah" or the name/lack-thereof of your choice throughout) gets mentioned very obliquely, and far more in the Vertigo titles than in the DC Mainstream. The closest thing I can think of to a reference to this God is the fact that Zauriel and the Spectre (John Corrigan, not this Hal Jordan stuff) are (or surmised to be) members of the Heavenly Host. I guess Etrigan the Demon could fall into this bin as well, since he is a lord of Hell (used in the Judeo-Christian sense).

There's also the Endless from the Sandman series (Death, Destiny, Dream, Destruction, Desire, Despair, and Delight/Delirium), who Neil Gaiman places above any and all of the above. Dream was known to J'onn J'onzz in the Sandman series, at least.

As for relative power levels (between the Old Gods and New Gods -- not touching that last one with a 10-foot pole with an asbestos glove at the end of it), I think it just depends on the god in question, although age would be a pretty good indicator of power.

In the Animated Age, they have never made reference to THE God (BS&P tends to frown on that) other than the occasional mild oath (as in, "My God!") and Etrigan's appearance (which still surprises me). New Gods have appeared on STAS. The only Old God to ever show up has been Hades (as far as I know). So, how this all works in the Dini/Timm universe is still up for grabs along with "Are Hawkgirl's wings real?"

I'd also guess that Earth doesn't get involved in most of these big intergalactic issues because we don't have space travel as commonplace (even though Bruce can apparently has a facility to build and repair Jav-7's), and everybody else either obeys the Star Trek Prime Directive, or doesn't think we're worth the trouble. Personally, I'd lean towards the latter.

-- Ed/Ace

[Borg4of3]

Okay unlike Ace, I am no authority on the subject. I know jack squat. But, I can send you to two analysis that I thougth were pretty nice:

On DC's 'heaven' (http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing03/vanishpt.shtml)
On DC's 'hell' (http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing04/vanishpt.shtml)

[Squall]

Man, this is... complicated. So the gods are basically really advanced beings, like how the Greek Gods were portrayed as alien beings that once visited and briefly lived on Earth in that original Star Trek episode?

Magic and gods seems to be one area where Batman doesn't know everything (for once). He does know the generals, but not the specifics. I wonder if Lex Luthor/Joker/Ultra-Humanite/etc. knows anything about magic and the gods too? ...