The Next Disney Animated Feature: The Princess and the Frog- What is Your Opinion?

[ToonGirl]

So, there is a new feature film.... that will be hand animated! (is that the term?)

The Princess and the Frog will be coming in 2009, if I am not mistaken. Not to mention, it will showcase the first African American Disney Princess, Princess Tiana.

However, the original name for Tiana was actually Maddy, and her original role was that of a chambermaid. People took this as a racist (but accurate; the film takes place before the Civil Rights Movement) message, and Disney acted fast.

IMO, I find this a bit silly. For one, several other stories began with the girl being poor and whatnot, and ending up becoming a Princess. How is this any different? Is it because she has darker skin? :sweat:

Secondly, this IS the 21st century. Things HAVE changed. People are different from back then, in several ways. People just need go on with their own lives.

What do you think?

[Dr.Pepper]

I think that it is ridiculous that people got mad about her being a maid. It isn't like she was a slave or anything. Also I don't get why they thought Maddy was a bad name. Tiana sounds kind of trashy to me.

[creativerealms]

It's a new Disney 2-D animated Musical. That alone is reason enough for me to want to see it. The changes Disney made to "please people" are dumb though.

[Silverstar]

Well, I actually like the name Tiana myself (it sounds pretty and exotic, and apparently the name Maddy sounded too close to "Mammy" phonetically), but speaking as a multi-ethnic person (I'm a third African-American, a third native American and a third Gypsy), I have to say that while I am an advocate against offensive ethnic stereotypes, there are instances where the quest for Political Correctness goes too far.

My big fear upon first hearing about The Princess and the Frog was that the protestors' desire to keep things "acceptable" would dwarf and ultimately squash the movie itself, and that the struggle to make the film as inoffensive to African-Americans as possible would be seen as too much of a chore and dissuade other studios from showcasing people of color as the protagonists in future animated films.

I'm all for keeping things inoffensive, but I really didn't see the changes made to the movie as being all that necessary. For one, many complained about Maddy/Tiana working as a maid. I'm partly black and I see no problem with that...provided that one keeps in mind when the movie takes place. Many black women at that time did work as domestics for white people. (My own paternal great-grandmother was a maid, in fact.) It's not a part of American history that I'm especially proud of, nor is it anything I'd like to see repeated, but it happened. It's silly to try and pretend that such practices never occurred. Besides, as was previously mentioned, many Disney princesses start out in humble, undesirable situations before blossoming; why should Tiana's ordeal be any different?

There was also some consternation about the villain of the movie practicing voodoo. Again, what did we expect? The movie takes place in New Orleans. Cajun country. Voodoo is practiced there. What did these censor commandoes want the villain to be? A plumber?

I can understand people getting upset over something that's really offensive, but I didn't and still don't see anything offensive with The Princess and the Frog, aside from the ridiculous title change: the story is called The Frog Prince, darn it!

[Ed Liu]

IMO, I find this a bit silly. For one, several other stories began with the girl being poor and whatnot, and ending up becoming a Princess. How is this any different? Is it because she has darker skin? :sweat:

No, it's because she's black in the American South and in what seems to be an era barely a generation removed from slavery. This is context that Cinderella and Snow White just don't have to deal with. It's also worth pointing out that Tiana is not a chambermaid, but nobody's said anything about how she starts out the movie, either.

Yeah, it's probably over-sensitive and Disney could have probably pulled that plot element off if they tried hard enough, but then this becomes the story all the way to release date. Now, of course, they have to deal with the accusations that they're "too sensitive" all the way to release date, but I think they'd rather have one over the other. Tiana's the first black Princess, so they don't win either way, but I think it's a worse move to cheese off potential black audience members with perceived insensitivity than to cheese off anyone else with perceived over-sensitivity. One of these will lead to a boycott, justified or not. It might make it more palatable if you think of this as a business decision.

My understanding is that Maddy was too close to "Mammy," which is another one of those words that looks innocuous but has accumulated enough baggage that it can get people hot and bothered (http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/). Again, probably too sensitive to change it after it was originally announced, and again, the business calculus makes this a pretty easy decision for exactly the same reasons. It's not like the Princess in the original story had a name anyway, so who cares if it was changed for whatever reason?


There was also some consternation about the villain of the movie practicing voodoo. Again, what did we expect? The movie takes place in New Orleans. Cajun country. Voodoo is practiced there. What did these censor commandoes want the villain to be? A plumber?

My understanding is that he still is a voodoo practitioner, although that may have been adjusted a bit to make him come off as a bit more of a con-man or charlatan. Don't know for sure, though -- nobody's said much of anything confirmable or publicly about the villain that I've seen.

-- Ed

[Pomegranate]

Eh, this movie just isn't my cup of tea, because I think this may be strictly aimed towards very young girls, as it probably centers around a princess and her love interest, and is probably a feature-length ad for the Princesses merchandising line Disney is currently pimping out. I just want Disney's main animation studio to churn out something with more broader/all-demos appeal again, something along the lines of the pre-60s classic cartoons, Pixar and DreamWorks Animation movies.

[Neal]

Um, this film is being done by Disney's main animation studio. It's their next classic. In the same film line that includes Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. It's not like that Disney Princess Enchanted Tales: Follow Your Dreams film which was outsourced and made to promote the updated princess line.

[I.R Joey]

Seeing it on principle.

Long live Disney traditional animation.

[Pomegranate]

Um, this film is being done by Disney's main animation studio. It's their next classic. In the same film line that includes Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. It's not like that Disney Princess Enchanted Tales: Follow Your Dreams film which was outsourced and made to promote the updated princess line.

Sorry, but I'd like to see more original animated concepts with more broader/all-ages appeal from Disney's main animation studio. That's why I'm preferring the animated offerings from Pixar, DreamWorks, Blue Sky and other animation studios to whatever Disney's main animation studio seem to be churning out nowadays.

[AdamYJ]

I'll give it a shot. What's to lose, right?

Though, if Disney's going to start in on fairy tales again, I wish they wouldn't always do things so "Princess-y". I mean, there are fairy tales with male leads. How about a new adaptation of "The Brave Little Tailor", or something more obscure like "The Six Who Went Far in the World" or "The Boy who Went to Find What Fear is". Disney could make it work. Last I checked, they're usually the ones who bring fairy tales into the mainstream, rather than mainstream tales coming to them.

Oh, well.

[creativerealms]

This is the first animated movie of it's kind (The princess thing) Disney has done in a while, maybe ten years or so. You seem to be jumping to conclusions. Their last few hand drawn animated movies were risks to try to move away from that whole deal and most of them failed badly. Of course they want to play it safe this time around. It has been five years (Home on the range was 2004 right?) since a Disney 2D animated movie and this time Disney wants to show that they can go back to their roots and be as good as they ever were.

[DarthGonzo]

The movie won't be out for quite a while. I wont form an opinion until I actually see it.

[Silverstar]

I'll give it a shot. What's to lose, right?

Though, if Disney's going to start in on fairy tales again, I wish they wouldn't always do things so "Princess-y". I mean, there are fairy tales with male leads. How about a new adaptation of "The Brave Little Tailor", or something more obscure like "The Six Who Went Far in the World" or "The Boy who Went to Find What Fear is". Disney could make it work. Last I checked, they're usually the ones who bring fairy tales into the mainstream, rather than mainstream tales coming to them.

Oh, well.

Those are good suggestions, but there actually have been some Disney animated storybook features with male protagonists: The Sword in the Stone, Aladdin, Hercules, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Treasure Planet. Heck, Sleeping Beauty was really more about the Prince than it was about Princess Aurora/Briar Rose, who spent a third of the movie asleep.

[Neal]

Yeah, Disney's last "broadway-style music, fairy tale film" was 1991's Beauty and the Beast. Then we had Aladdin the following year. Its last 'princess film' could technically be Mulan, but that was 11 years ago! Disney's been trying out many different styles and genres since the early 2000s. First with its hip comedy The Emperor's New Groove. Then it tried to do something more masculine after years of princess films with Atlantis: The Lost Empire and Treasure Planet. It gave us two films for the whole family to enjoy with Lilo and Stitch and Brother Bear. Then, with Home on the Range it delivered truly old-fashioned cartoon fun ala the early days of Saturday morning cartoons. Meet the Robinsons was quirky and random while BOLT was endearing and funny for whole families- not unlike Pixar's earlier films (Finding Nemo or Toy Story).

Disney has remained one of the most diverse companies out there for animation.

I won't disagree with you that Pixar is trying to be different lately. WALL-E with its reliance on physical comedy over dialogue, or the fact their next film stars a 78-year-old man.

But DreamWorks? Their films are as formulaic as the day is long. They just keep repeating the same by-the-numbers system with each subsequent film they release. And let's not forget how they started - first by blatantly copying Disney/Pixar (Antz following A Bug's Life, Shark Tale following Finding Nemo) then piggybacking on a more creative company's success (Chicken Run).

I will never come to respect DreamWorks.

Anyways, I think after 18 years since Disney had a true fairy tale musical and possibly at least 11 years since they featured a princess-y character, it's not too soon to make another princess film. Pixar themselves are making a princess film, currently.

And in 2012, Disney's going back to the masculine vein with King of the Elves a film about a man who saves and elf clan and becomes their king.

Pixar = Experimental
Disney = Diverse
DreamWorks = :yawn:

[Baltofan]

I can't wait!

[AdamYJ]

Those are good suggestions, but there actually have been some Disney animated storybook features with male protagonists: The Sword in the Stone, Aladdin, Hercules, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Treasure Planet. Heck, Sleeping Beauty was really more about the Prince than it was about Princess Aurora/Briar Rose, who spent a third of the movie asleep.

I never said there weren't Disney animated features with male protagonists. I was specifically talking about the ones based on fairy tales, or more specifically, folk tales. I know that to some people there isn't a big difference, but there is to me. Most of the ones with male protagonists are based on children's literature, or in some cases, adult literature (The Hunchback of Notre Dame, for example). Occasionally, that isn't the case, but it usually is. The most notable European folk tales with male protagonists that Disney adapted were Mickey Mouse vehicles. "Mickey and the Bean-Stalk" and "The Brave Little Tailor". As a folklore buff and amateur storyteller, one of the things I'd like to see is for more people to be exposed to the breadth of traditional folklore that both Europe and the world have to offer.

You know, there are more than 200 stories collected in The Complete Grimm's Fairy Tales and only about a dozen of them are known by name to the average person. And those are just the tales from Germany, mind you. Think about it. ;)

[TheVileOne]

People should be celebrating the movie is using an African American female to be the next Disney princess.

[ScrewBallDaffy]

I can't wait for this.:D It'll be nice to see a disney musicle again. Also about the censores...wow, just wow.

[AlgeaX]

People should be celebrating the movie is using an African American female to be the next Disney princess.



It's actually kind of weird that it's taken this long, seeing as how they've already had Arabs, Asians and gypsies.

[Master-Dee]

Well I think it's just ridiculous. Having a African American woman after all of this time, Disney should be ashamed of themselves. And besides this is the 21st Century. We already know the ways of our morals.

But it is about time that we have an African American woman in the picture of Disney.

I just don't get it, after all of this time. Why they choose now to have an African American women? :confused:

[TheVileOne]

Seriously, why are you complaining? It's a positive and progressive step and yet people STILL complain.

Who knows why it's taken so long? The important thing is that it is happening and what better way then Disney's return to "traditional" animated features?

[macattack]

Seriously, why are you complaining? It's a positive and progressive step and yet people STILL complain.

Who knows why it's taken so long? The important thing is that it is happening and what better way then Disney's return to "traditional" animated features?

The problem is that Disney kowtowed to Media and Parental Watchdogs, and is significantly bending history in the process.

I don't see a lot of hope for this movie. I love the fact that it is handdrawn but it feels like they made the movie significantly blander than the original concept.

[Pomegranate]

Yeah, Disney's last "broadway-style music, fairy tale film" was 1991's Beauty and the Beast. Then we had Aladdin the following year. Its last 'princess film' could technically be Mulan, but that was 11 years ago! Disney's been trying out many different styles and genres since the early 2000s. First with its hip comedy The Emperor's New Groove. Then it tried to do something more masculine after years of princess films with Atlantis: The Lost Empire and Treasure Planet. It gave us two films for the whole family to enjoy with Lilo and Stitch and Brother Bear. Then, with Home on the Range it delivered truly old-fashioned cartoon fun ala the early days of Saturday morning cartoons. Meet the Robinsons was quirky and random while BOLT was endearing and funny for whole families- not unlike Pixar's earlier films (Finding Nemo or Toy Story).

Disney has remained one of the most diverse companies out there for animation.

I won't disagree with you that Pixar is trying to be different lately. WALL-E with its reliance on physical comedy over dialogue, or the fact their next film stars a 78-year-old man.

I miss Disney's glory days, when they would actually provide entertainment for all demos rather a specific gender or age group. Out of all the properties the mouse house likes to pimp out nowadays, Pixar's offerings and to a much lesser extent, Mickey Mouse & Co. and Winnie the Pooh are actually the only ones that were made to appeal towards everyone on this very planet.

Other properties like Hannah Montana, HSM, the Princesses & Pixies franchises are enjoyed by just girls, while the likes of Jonas Bros., Power Rangers, Disney XD and Pirates are more liked by boys.


But DreamWorks? Their films are as formulaic as the day is long. They just keep repeating the same by-the-numbers system with each subsequent film they release. And let's not forget how they started - first by blatantly copying Disney/Pixar (Antz following A Bug's Life, Shark Tale following Finding Nemo) then piggybacking on a more creative company's success (Chicken Run).

I will never come to respect DreamWorks.

I can agree DreamWorks Animation has made some terrible business decisions and unwatchable movies, but I think they seem to be improving in quality with KFP and Monsters vs. Aliens. Besides, I think Prince of Egypt, Sinbad, El Dorado and Spirit were the best quality movies they've churned out in the past, so I don't think they're that bad.


Seriously, why are you complaining? It's a positive and progressive step and yet people STILL complain.

Because this movie seems to have a connection to the Princesses merchandising line and it's another Disney adaption of an existing work not made by them(Disney), which made me very skeptical about this movie in this 1st place.


Who knows why it's taken so long? The important thing is that it is happening and what better way then Disney's return to "traditional" animated features?

I don't care what form of animation they use, as long it's an original animated classic with much broader family/all-demos appeal that looks very good.

[Radical Raven]

Yeah, Disney's last "broadway-style music, fairy tale film" was 1991's Beauty and the Beast. Then we had Aladdin the following year. Its last 'princess film' could technically be Mulan, but that was 11 years ago! Disney's been trying out many different styles and genres since the early 2000s. First with its hip comedy The Emperor's New Groove. Then it tried to do something more masculine after years of princess films with Atlantis: The Lost Empire and Treasure Planet. It gave us two films for the whole family to enjoy with Lilo and Stitch and Brother Bear. Then, with Home on the Range it delivered truly old-fashioned cartoon fun ala the early days of Saturday morning cartoons. Meet the Robinsons was quirky and random while BOLT was endearing and funny for whole families- not unlike Pixar's earlier films (Finding Nemo or Toy Story).

Disney has remained one of the most diverse companies out there for animation.

I won't disagree with you that Pixar is trying to be different lately. WALL-E with its reliance on physical comedy over dialogue, or the fact their next film stars a 78-year-old man.

But DreamWorks? Their films are as formulaic as the day is long. They just keep repeating the same by-the-numbers system with each subsequent film they release. And let's not forget how they started - first by blatantly copying Disney/Pixar (Antz following A Bug's Life, Shark Tale following Finding Nemo) then piggybacking on a more creative company's success (Chicken Run).

I will never come to respect DreamWorks.

Anyways, I think after 18 years since Disney had a true fairy tale musical and possibly at least 11 years since they featured a princess-y character, it's not too soon to make another princess film. Pixar themselves are making a princess film, currently.

And in 2012, Disney's going back to the masculine vein with King of the Elves a film about a man who saves and elf clan and becomes their king.

Pixar = Experimental
Disney = Diverse
DreamWorks = :yawn:

Bugs Life was released after Antz. Pixar actually copied Dreamworks there (besides, that was back when the company was constantly good... hell, even great).

I'm a lot more excited about Rapunzel then this, for some reason.

[Luna]

It's a 2-D animated film,a musical,and has Keith David in the cast.....I'm really looking forward to seeing it!!!...I like Disney's other animated movies,so I think I'll like this one....

[Dudley]

I always knew having an African American princess would be a bad idea because someone out there is going to have something to complain about. They rather play it safe than for accuracy. And Maddy's a better name than Tiana.
Heck I heard people complaining that they have the black girl be the one that has to be kissing an animal.

Regardless, I'm going to see this movie because if this movie bombs, the future of 2D animated films will become very bleak.

[Ed Liu]

The problem is that Disney kowtowed to Media and Parental Watchdogs, and is significantly bending history in the process.

As I said (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=3101304&postcount=5), nobody has said officially what Tiana is doing in New Orleans now. She's not a chambermaid any more. Black people were servants back in the time this movie was set, but there were also black people who weren't. I'm not ready to say Disney bent history just yet. Besides, I'm not exactly going to quibble about the historical inaccuracies that pop up in Aladdin or Mulan.


Bugs Life was released after Antz. Pixar actually copied Dreamworks there (besides, that was back when the company was constantly good... hell, even great).

The release date has nothing to do with how long the movie was in production, and while this article in Newsweek (http://www.newsweek.com/id/113543) doesn't draw any conclusions, it also documents that John Lasseter pitched A Bug's Life at Disney before Nina Jacobson pitched Antz to Jeffrey Katzenberg's new DreamWorks studios. If there was copying at all, it was DreamWorks copying Pixar. However, there's also lots of cases where studios come up with similar movie ideas at the same time (Deep Impact and Armageddon, for instance), and everybody talks to everybody in Hollywood. I don't think the movies are all that similar beyond having bugs for leads, so I don't really think anybody did much copying of anything.

-- Ed

[Lavenderpaw]

Let there be 2D animation with a decent storyline, that's what I say.

[NewcomerDC]

It's funny how people complained about this title character's name and Disney should know that they also have a character named Maddie and she pretty much is in the same predicament as Tiana since she's working for The Man but the races like The Man a.k.a. Mr. Moseby is African-american and Maddie is Caucasian are a bit different. I mean in The Suite Life of Zack and Cody, no one had the problem with Ashley Tisdale's character having that name even if Maddie isn't spelled out like 'Maddy'. Everyone who wants Disney make so many changes in this film should just shut up and make a film that could be similar to this one but in their own way.

[Umino]

I don't understand what the big deal is regarding her race. Almost every princess in the 90's was a "first". Jasmine was the first Arab princess, Mulan the first Asian, Pocahontas the first Native American, Ariel the first... uh, fish princess. I don't remeber anyone making a big deal about Mulan being the first major Asian character in Disney. I could understand if ALL the princesses were white up until now, but that isn't the case.

[Silverstar]

I don't understand what the big deal is regarding her race. Almost every princess in the 90's was a "first". Jasmine was the first Arab princess, Mulan the first Asian, Pocahontas the first Native American, Ariel the first... uh, fish princess. I don't remeber anyone making a big deal about Mulan being the first major Asian character in Disney. I could understand if ALL the princesses were white up until now, but that isn't the case.

The "issue", if you will, isn't with Tiana's being black per se; it's with her originally being cast as a domestic in old New Orleans and her original name being Maddy. Some feel/felt that Tiana's being a maid and having a name which phonetically sounds like 'Mammy' (a derogatory term for black maids) were racist, so Disney was forced to change those aspects of the movie.

[NewcomerDC]

The "issue", if you will, isn't with Tiana's being black per se; it's with her originally being cast as a domestic in old New Orleans and her original name being Maddy. Some feel/felt that Tiana's being a maid and having a name which phonetically sounds like 'Mammy' (a derogatory term for black maids) were racist, so Disney was forced to change those aspects of the movie.
Disney shouldn't be forced to do anything. They have the cash so they should've used it to block all the naysayers.

Now if they could use their gift to bring Song of the South on Platinum Edition DVD/Blu-Ray DVD however....

[AdamYJ]

People should be celebrating the movie is using an African American female to be the next Disney princess.



Honestly man, I really don't care about that. The whole "African-American princess" thing is kind of a non-issue for me.

[tb4000]

Honestly man, I really don't care about that. The whole "African-American princess" thing is kind of a non-issue for me.

IF you're a black female, it probably means quite a bit more than it would for the rest of us. Pretty much there were no female Disney characters that looked like them, they just had to make do with the other dolls and toys.

[ToonGirl]

As I said (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=3101304&postcount=5), nobody has said officially what Tiana is doing in New Orleans now. She's not a chambermaid any more. Black people were servants back in the time this movie was set, but there were also black people who weren't. I'm not ready to say Disney bent history just yet. Besides, I'm not exactly going to quibble about the historical inaccuracies that pop up in Aladdin or Mulan.

I believe she is going to be a singer of some sort, implying that she might be higher when it comes to her social class...


Now if they could use their gift to bring Song of the South on Platinum Edition DVD/Blu-Ray DVD however....

Is it still available in Europe?

Also, it is kind of ironic that Disney deems the film racist. In actuality, (from what I have seen so far), it is really just about an African American singing. From the comments, I can assume he is a farmer (of his own will).What is so racist about that? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ak4vjiNzw)

Also, Disney is trying to help African Americans (and other races, too) get their respect nowadays right? You know, by not making offensive stuff, and making all people equal by implementing them in films. Yet, they think singing a song to cartoon birds is somehow a no-no for an African American to do. Plus, one of the comments played the singing man's actor wasn't invited to something. :crying: Now that's sad.

[Silverstar]

it is kind of ironic that Disney deems the film racist. In actuality, (from what I have seen so far), it is really just about an African American singing. From the comments, I can assume he is a farmer (of his own will).What is so racist about that? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ak4vjiNzw)

Huh? Disney didn't deem The Princess and the Frog racist. Say what you will about the Mouse House, but I'm pretty certain that they would never intentionally try to make a racially insensitive film.

The "cleanups" were made as safeguards so people wouldn't view the movie as racist.

[BrendaBat]

I'm going to see this. I want this movie to do well even if it sucks because, if The Princess and the Frog bombs, Disney (and the movie industry in general) will blame the 2-D animation and we may not see another traditionally animated film made in America for a long LONG time. :(


As for the changes.....if they had to get rid of the "Maddy" name, they should have picked a better replacement than "Tiana". "Tiana" is too modern; it doesn't sound like the name of a girl living in the 1920s. Not only that, Tiana sounds kinda ghetto, too. :shrug:


And, I don't know if this rumor is true, but I hear they changed the title from "The Frog Prince" to "The Princess and the Frog" out of fear that the former title would offend French people. :eek:
I hope that rumor isn't true because, if it is, I feel sorry for the people working on this film. It must be REALLY hard to make a good movie when you have to constantly worry about offending every conceivable minority group.


Originally posted by Silverstar
My big fear upon first hearing about The Princess and the Frog was that the protestors' desire to keep things "acceptable" would dwarf and ultimately squash the movie itself, and that the struggle to make the film as inoffensive to African-Americans as possible would be seen as too much of a chore and dissuade other studios from showcasing people of color as the protagonists in future animated films.

Thats a good point. I imagine the scenario you pointed out is the reason we haven't seen a black main character in a Disney movie until now.

The big studios are likely terrified of the potential backlash: If they let even one possibly offensive thing slip by in the film, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will picket their studio and ruin the careers of the film makers á la Don Imus. But if they make the black character and the movie as bland and inoffensive as possible, it'll be boring and no one will want to watch it.

[AlgeaX]

The "issue", if you will, isn't with Tiana's being black per se; it's with her originally being cast as a domestic in old New Orleans and her original name being Maddy. Some feel/felt that Tiana's being a maid and having a name which phonetically sounds like 'Mammy' (a derogatory term for black maids) were racist, so Disney was forced to change those aspects of the movie.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there already like a million black women in the real world named Maddy? No accuses them or their parents of perpetuating some racial sterotype. It seems to me like certain people go out of their way to be offended.

[Silverstar]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there already like a million black women in the real world named Maddy? No accuses them or their parents of perpetuating some racial sterotype. It seems to me like certain people go out of their way to be offended.

I'm sure there are some actual Maddies in the world (though I don't know any personally). I personally don't have an issue with the name, nor was it my decision to change it. Some folks complained about the name Maddy, so Disney changed it.

But yeah, some people do take Political Correctness too far.

[stargirl]

Honestly, I'm just glad that Disney is finally creating an African-American princess to add to their Princess family.

But why did it take them so long to do so???

[GWOtaku]

I don't care about the name change, and I'm absolutely going to go see this and support Disney's return to animated feature films.

[MonkeyFunk]

Honestly, I'm just glad that Disney is finally creating an African-American princess to add to their Princess family.

But why did it take them so long to do so???

Probably because America isn't the most obvious setting for a film about a princess.

[Elrohir]

Probably because America isn't the most obvious setting for a film about a princess.

Ideally, all the characters in movies should be representative of the population. For example, if (I'm just throwing out number here) 50% of America is white and 40% is black, then the same should be true for the characters in the movies. However, this does not apply to period movies: movies that take place in a time or place other than contemporary America.

All the princess movies have been period movies, meaning the race of the characters depends on when the setting takes place. So why have the next princess be black? Because, despite fairy tales being period stories, the Disney Princess franchise is something that lots of young girls identify with, especially in America. They need a more ethnically diverse representation. So what's the solution? Change the setting of the Princess of the Frog to one that makes it plausible for the princess to be black.

[Blackstar]

Ideally, all the characters in movies should be representative of the population. For example, if (I'm just throwing out number here) 50% of America is white and 40% is black, then the same should be true for the characters in the movies. However, this does not apply to period movies: movies that take place in a time or place other than contemporary America.

All the princess movies have been period movies, meaning the race of the characters depends on when the setting takes place. So why have the next princess be black? Because, despite fairy tales being period stories, the Disney Princess franchise is something that lots of young girls identify with, especially in America. They need a more ethnically diverse representation. So what's the solution? Change the setting of the Princess of the Frog to one that makes it plausible for the princess to be black.


There are plenty of African-Americans living in New Orleans. How is that not a plausible setting for an African-American Disney Princess? Are you suggesting that the movie take place in Africa? Because Disney already did an anmaimated feature set in Africa. Remember The Lion King?

[AlgeaX]

There are plenty of African-Americans living in New Orleans. How is that not a plausible setting for an African-American Disney Princess? Are you suggesting that the movie take place in Africa? Because Disney already did an animated feature set in Africa. Remember The Lion King?

I think he meant that America was an implausible setting for a story about a Princess, unless Obama decides to declare himself Emperor or something.

[Neal]

This is no different than "The Prince & Me" or "The Princess Diaries".

'Princess' Tiana doesn't start off a princess. She becomes one after winning the heart of Prince Naveen.

It is impossible to have a royal 'American Princess' but not impossible for an American girl to become princess.

[Phineas77]

Well I think it's just ridiculous. Having a African American woman after all of this time, Disney should be ashamed of themselves. And besides this is the 21st Century. We already know the ways of our morals.

But it is about time that we have an African American woman in the picture of Disney.

I just don't get it, after all of this time. Why they choose now to have an African American women? :confused:And we are going to have an African American as President in a couple of weeks.........we should be well past the civil rights era at this point. I agree with your comments 100%.

[tb4000]

And we are going to have an African American as President in a couple of weeks.........we should be well past the civil rights era at this point. I agree with your comments 100%.


Not to bring up political stuff, but I really don't like when people say, "we have a black prez, so quit complaining about stuff." It's not going to be some magic wand where racism and other issues just vanish, man.

[Silverstar]

Not to bring up political stuff, but I really don't like when people say, "we have a black prez, so quit complaining about stuff." It's not going to be some magic wand where racism and other issues just vanish, man.

Word. Especially since "We have a black Prez now" isn't even accurate. Barack Obama is not black; he's half-African, half-Caucasian. So all of the people walking around in those cheesy 'The First Black President' T-shirts need to be asking for their money back. Obama is our first multi-ethnic President. I wish people would stop acting like we've elected President Leroy Jackson from Compton or something. The world isn't going to change that dramatically just because there's going to be a person of color in the White House.

But again, let's not veer too far off-topic.

[AlgeaX]

Word. Especially since "We have a black Prez now" isn't even accurate. Barack Obama is not black; he's half-African, half-Caucasian. So all of the people walking around in those cheesy 'The First Black President' T-shirts need to be asking for their money back. Obama is our first multi-ethnic President. I wish people would stop acting like we've elected President Leroy Jackson from Compton or something. The world isn't going to change that dramatically just because there's going to be a person of color in the White House.

But again, let's not veer too far off-topic.

Dude, after four hundred years every Black person in North America probably has at least some Caucasian in their ancestry by now. Your just splitting hairs.

[Phineas77]

Word. Especially since "We have a black Prez now" isn't even accurate. Barack Obama is not black; he's half-African, half-Caucasian. So all of the people walking around in those cheesy 'The First Black President' T-shirts need to be asking for their money back. Obama is our first multi-ethnic President. I wish people would stop acting like we've elected President Leroy Jackson from Compton or something. The world isn't going to change that dramatically just because there's going to be a person of color in the White House.

But again, let's not veer too far off-topic.The main point of my post was in agreement that we ARE making progress in breaking the race barrier, and in this case, in Disney entertainment, which is a positive sign, which I hope we continue to head towards in the coming decades.

[Phineas77]

On a final note.......to me, people should be getting good acting roles or whatever for thier talent.......NOT the color of the person's skin. I don't care, frankly, whether that person is Japaneese or African American or White.......if that person has talent, he or she deserves the role or position. Period.

http://forums.toonzone.net/images/misc/progress.gif

[Silverstar]

Originally Posted by Yours Truly http://forums.toonzone.net/images/buttons/buttons_TZ6/viewpost.gif (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?p=3110693#post3110693)
Word. Especially since "We have a black Prez now" isn't even accurate. Barack Obama is not black; he's half-African, half-Caucasian. So all of the people walking around in those cheesy 'The First Black President' T-shirts need to be asking for their money back. Obama is our first multi-ethnic President. I wish people would stop acting like we've elected President Leroy Jackson from Compton or something. The world isn't going to change that dramatically just because there's going to be a person of color in the White House.

But again, let's not veer too far off-topic.

Dude, after four hundred years every Black person in North America probably has at least some Caucasian in their ancestry by now. Your just splitting hairs.

Actually, that was the precise point I was trying to make. Obama is no more a quote-unquote "black guy" than I am (I'm a third black, a third Native American and a third Gypsy-basically I'm a mutt). So I think that instead of half of America going Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs over the man's skin color, we should all instead wait until after he's sworn in and see what he can actually do for this country. I didn't vote Obama in because his skin is brown, I voted him because I felt that he was the better qualified candidate.

[Phineas77]

Originally Posted by Yours Truly http://forums.toonzone.net/images/buttons/buttons_TZ6/viewpost.gif (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?p=3110693#post3110693)
Word. Especially since "We have a black Prez now" isn't even accurate. Barack Obama is not black; he's half-African, half-Caucasian. So all of the people walking around in those cheesy 'The First Black President' T-shirts need to be asking for their money back. Obama is our first multi-ethnic President. I wish people would stop acting like we've elected President Leroy Jackson from Compton or something. The world isn't going to change that dramatically just because there's going to be a person of color in the White House.

But again, let's not veer too far off-topic.


Actually, that was the precise point I was trying to make. Obama is no more a quote-unquote "black guy" than I am (I'm a third black, a third Native American and a third Gypsy-basically I'm a mutt). So I think that instead of half of America going Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs over the man's skin color, we should all instead wait until after he's sworn in and see what he can actually do for this country. I didn't vote Obama in because his skin is brown, I voted him because I felt that he was the better qualified candidate.Exactly, and the same should go for talent.......I am sure the main star of the animated series was chosen for talent, NOT skin color.

[Elrohir]

On a final note.......to me, people should be getting good acting roles or whatever for thier talent.......NOT the color of the person's skin. I don't care, frankly, whether that person is Japaneese or African American or White.......if that person has talent, he or she deserves the role or position. Period.

http://forums.toonzone.net/images/misc/progress.gif
I think we all can agree on that. But that's not the issue. With animation you can have a multi-ethnic cast, but still have them all play white characters, or vice-versa.

[Phineas77]

I think we all can agree on that. But that's not the issue. With animation you can have a multi-ethnic cast, but still have them all play white characters, or vice-versa.That is true........I agree with you completely. It is definitely possible.

[Racattack!Force]

Dude, after four hundred years every Black person in North America probably has at least some Caucasian in their ancestry by now. Your just splitting hairs.My parents are directly from West Africa, so I'm basically completely black for as far back as I can trace my ancestry.

[Ioz]

Disney should have kept it as they originally planned to rather than bow to the PC police. I'm more annoyed with Randy Newman being in charge of the music, though. Man, he sucks. I'd like for Disney to release an unedited Song of the South here, but I doubt they ever will.

[I.D.Will19??]

Disney should have kept it as they originally planned to rather than bow to the PC police. I'm more annoyed with Randy Newman being in charge of the music, though. Man, he sucks. I'd like for Disney to release an unedited Song of the South here, but I doubt they ever will.

Here, here. They were definitely too sensitive, even though I believe they should've changed the name :p . "Maddy" was just too plain of a name, imo. To have princess names such as Ariel, Jasmine, and Belle and the best they could come up with was "Maddy"? Seriously? I dislike "Tiana" because it's soo not right; it sounds like the type of name I've heard a thousand times ALREADY. There was just something so unique and exotic about the other DP names. Why Disney couldn't find a more suitable name, perhaps one of Creole descent (afterall, the movie takes place in NO) is beyond me.

Which version of the storyline are they going along with? I know there were rumors of two. The one where she turns into a frog and the prince has to kiss her or the other one where the prince turns into a frog and she kisses him.

Finally, I'm just not feeling Randy Newman over Alan Menkin. Sorry. I just don't take to his songs the way I take to Menkin's.

[Dr.Pepper]

I am excited for this movie, but I am sad that it wasn't in AOL's top 50 movies to see this year.

[Elrohir]

Well, given the setting of the movie, I think Newman might fit it better. Is he doing Rapunzel as well? For that I might prefer Menkin.

[Pomegranate]

I am excited for this movie, but I am sad that it wasn't in AOL's top 50 movies to see this year.

There's a very good reason why it didn't make that list's top 50, ya know!:shrug:

[Dr.Pepper]

There's a very good reason why it didn't make that list's top 50, ya know!:shrug:
I don't know. What?

[Pomegranate]

I don't know. What?

Again, this might be specifically aimed towards very young girls, as it probably centers around a princess and her love interest, and is probably a feature-length ad for the Princesses merchandising line Disney is currently pimping out as well.:shrug:

[Dr.Pepper]

Again, this might be specifically aimed towards very young girls, as it probably centers around a princess and her love interest, and is probably a feature-length ad for the Princesses merchandising line Disney is currently pimping out as well.:shrug:
Well they had Hannah Montana the movie in that list so...

[Pomegranate]

Well they had Hannah Montana the movie in that list so...

Those were reasons I've implied Princess & The Frog will suck very badly.:shrug:

[Patchwork]

Again, this might be specifically aimed towards very young girls, as it probably centers around a princess and her love interest, and is probably a feature-length ad for the Princesses merchandising line Disney is currently pimping out as well.:shrug:

Or, it could just be trying to go back to the basics. It's not like Disney princesses are anything new, nor heavy merchendicing to go along with it. (I still remember a Mulan makeover kit that was based off the "Honor To Us All" sequence. Even at age 10, I couldn't help the feeling that they completely missed the point of the movie)
Really, I seriosuly doubt they'd put this much time and effort into a theatrical reslease if it were only a merch hock for five year olds. If they wanted to do that, they could have just done another DTV movie.
Yes, there will be merch to go along with the movie, and yes, it will appeal to little girls, and yes, Tiana will join the Princess line.
That does not mean those things going to be Disney's be all end all main goal towards making the film, no more than Bolt was made solely to appeal to little boys and their action figures.


Why Disney couldn't find a more suitable name, perhaps one of Creole descent (afterall, the movie takes place in NO) is beyond me.
I didn't get that either. Maddy made a lot more sense to me, since not only does it fit with the setting, but also because I assumed it was short for Madeline, which is at least French. Tiana just doesn't fit at all.

[Blackstar]

Those were reasons I've implied Princess & The Frog will suck very badly.:shrug:

I don't see why The Princess and the Frog will suck when nearly every other Disney animated feature of this nature has done very (or at least reasonably) well. If there's one thing that Disney knows how to do, it's market. If they want to attract young girls to this movie, then that's precisely what will happen.

[Radical Raven]

Wait, this movie's in New Orleans? Why? There are no princesses in New Orleans...

[Baltofan]

What's next, a cartoon Disney cowgirl princess from Tennessee? :D

[Dr.Pepper]

Wait, this movie's in New Orleans? Why? There are no princesses in New Orleans...
I think she marries a European Prince guy but I might be mistaken

[Patchwork]

Wait, this movie's in New Orleans? Why? There are no princesses in New Orleans...
I was currently running with the theory that the princess title isn't literal. Maybe it's just an informal title.

[ToonGirl]

What's next, a cartoon Disney cowgirl princess from Tennessee? :D

Well, maybe not exactly Tennessee. Maybe just the cowboy era in general.:)


I think she marries a European Prince guy but I might be mistaken

Wouldn't it be great if it she actually DOES kiss him, but he ends up being Caucasian (because Europe has little to no African Americans, let alone European Monarchy during the 1940s). Yet, she marries him anyway?:D

Also, it never crossed my mind, but does this movie take place during WWII? Disney does not usually put war references in their films, give a few excepts, like Return To Neverland.

[Gokou Ruri]

Honestly man, I really don't care about that. The whole "African-American princess" thing is kind of a non-issue for me. Going to agree. I have no problems with her being black, just the way people are advertising her skin color above all else. It shouldn't matter what race she is. 99% of them time when race is a marketing factor it ends up being nothing more than an appeal to political correctness. To me, the act of making a minority character for the sole reason to be politically correct comes off as less politically correct than never making one at all.

Now if they really wanted to wow me they'd make an actual interesting princess who does more than just talk to cute animals and get rescued by her prince. Give us more interesting characters like Elyon, or Mulan. Hopefully Tiana's personality is interesting, because a lame character is a lame character, regardless of skin color.

[Racattack!Force]

Also, it never crossed my mind, but does this movie take place during WWII? Disney does not usually put war references in their films, give a few excepts, like Return To Neverland. It takes place in 1920s New Orleans Jazz Age (post-WW1 and pre-Great Depression), not the 1940s. :sweat:

[Pomegranate]

Or, it could just be trying to go back to the basics. It's not like Disney princesses are anything new, nor heavy merchendicing to go along with it. (I still remember a Mulan makeover kit that was based off the "Honor To Us All" sequence. Even at age 10, I couldn't help the feeling that they completely missed the point of the movie)

Disney's main animated feature film division doesn't have to churn out only princess movies or adaptions of existing works in order to return to their roots. Their main animation department just needs to make more quality entertainment for all demos to enjoy, which is a task they refuse to take on at this very point in time.


Really, I seriosuly doubt they'd put this much time and effort into a theatrical reslease if it were only a merch hock for five year olds. If they wanted to do that, they could have just done another DTV movie.

Many movies Hollywood churns out nowadays have no place on the silver screen what so ever. Disney could've made it a DTV release rather another tentpole/event film for the cinemas.


Yes, there will be merch to go along with the movie, and yes, it will appeal to little girls, and yes, Tiana will join the Princess line.
That does not mean those things going to be Disney's be all end all main goal towards making the film, no more than Bolt was made solely to appeal to little boys and their action figures.

Bolt doesn't just appeal to young boys, but to all other demos as well, and I really doubt P&TF can find an audience outside of very young girls and the grownups the little girls will drag with them all the way to the movies, since the general public will probably associate P&TF with the Princesses merchandising line.


I don't see why The Princess and the Frog will suck when nearly every other Disney animated feature of this nature has done very (or at least reasonably) well. If there's one thing that Disney knows how to do, it's market. If they want to attract young girls to this movie, then that's precisely what will happen.

The animated princess-centered Disney films of the very past weren't made to fuel/promote some merchandising line and if Disney just strictly relied upon very young girls to help fuel P&TF's box office, then the movie would bomb very badly, esp. when opens up on the very same day as Alvin 2.


What's next, a cartoon Disney cowgirl princess from Tennessee? :D

Let's not give them anymore ideas about princesses, shall we?:sweat:

[Spideyzilla]

http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/princessandthefrog/

[AdamYJ]

What's next, a cartoon Disney cowgirl princess from Tennessee? :D

Actually, I've been thinking that it might be nice if Disney sets one of its animated movies in the Appalachian Mountains?

Why?

Because apparently the hill folk have been telling their own versions of European fairy tales for ages, just localized. They even have their own versions of Jack and the Beanstalk ("Jack and the Bean Tree") and Cinderella ("Ashpet").

Don't believe me? Just look for Grandfather Tales or The Jack Tales next time you're in your local library.

[Patchwork]

Disney's main animated feature film division doesn't have to churn out only princess movies or adaptions of existing works in order to return to their roots. Their main animation department just needs to make more quality entertainment for all demos to enjoy, which is a task they refuse to take on at this very point in time.

No, they don't have to, but the fact remains that doing so isn't going to cripple the film in any way, and doesn't disable the movie from being of quality. There's less than a handfull of the Disney canon that weren't based at all on an existing work. (At this point, it almost seems like a tradition.)



Bolt doesn't just appeal to young boys, but to all other demos as well, and I really doubt P&TF can find an audience outside of very young girls and the grownups the little girls will drag with them all the way to the movies, since the general public will probably associate P&TF with the Princesses merchandising line.

Why? How could you possibly know that without even seeing a full trailer or even a clip yet? And for that matter, why is only P&tF only being considered for this sole-girl-appeal shtick?
Wasn't Beauty & the Beast and The Little Mermaid both princess movies? More so, weren't they also mostly romantic girly movies? Girly movies that produced hordes of merchandice? Were they not good films?

Or does the existence of the current princess merchendising line automatically doom P&tF to a 90 minute ad?

Also: Bolt appeals to all demos? Didn't you just say that they refused to make quality movies for all demographics to enjoy a few paragraphs ago?
(Or was that statement undirected toward CGI films? And if that's the case, what about Lilo & Stitch?)



The animated princess-centered Disney films of the very past weren't made to fuel/promote some merchandising line and if Disney just strictly relied upon very young girls to help fuel P&TF's box office, then the movie would bomb very badly

Exactly. That's why it's a big jump to assume that Princess and the Frog is a merch hock and nothing more. Right now, it's a big jump to assume ANYTHING about this movie, because no one has seen anything from it whatsoever. (Yeah there's the teaser, but a teaser doesn't give any real information about the film at all)
Disney might be a little think in business decisions once in a while, but they're not idiots.

[Pomegranate]

No, they don't have to, but the fact remains that doing so isn't going to cripple the film in any way, and doesn't disable the movie from being of quality. There's less than a handfull of the Disney canon that weren't based at all on an existing work. (At this point, it almost seems like a tradition.)

Okay, I can agree those traits won't cripple a show/film's quality, but I really yearn for Disney to make more original cartoons for all demos to enjoy.


Why? How could you possibly know that without even seeing a full trailer or even a clip yet? And for that matter, why is only P&tF only being considered for this sole-girl-appeal shtick?

You have to consider the fact that the movie has the word "Princess" in its name, which would probably turn off male audiences from the movie, and it's not only P&TF that's being considered for this sole-girl-appeal shtick, but I also consider Enchanted and any other princess-centered movie released after P&TF for this shtick.


Wasn't Beauty & the Beast and The Little Mermaid both princess movies? More so, weren't they also mostly romantic girly movies? Girly movies that produced hordes of merchandice? Were they not good films?

Those movies weren't made just for girls nor were they made solely to fuel/promote some merchandising line like Enchanted, P&TF, Rapunzel and other princess-centered movies being made in this day and age.


Or does the existence of the current princess merchendising line automatically doom P&tF to a 90 minute ad?

Possibly, if it has very poor writing and is made to appeal just to very young girls.


Also: Bolt appeals to all demos? Didn't you just say that they refused to make quality movies for all demographics to enjoy a few paragraphs ago?
(Or was that statement undirected toward CGI films? And if that's the case, what about Lilo & Stitch?)

I said their main animation division barely churns out any quality media products for all demos to enjoy nowadays and Bolt is just one of the few Disney's main animation division ever churns out in this very day and age.


Exactly. That's why it's a big jump to assume that Princess and the Frog is a merch hock and nothing more. Right now, it's a big jump to assume ANYTHING about this movie, because no one has seen anything from it whatsoever. (Yeah there's the teaser, but a teaser doesn't give any real information about the film at all)
Disney might be a little think in business decisions once in a while, but they're not idiots.

Well, from the way things are going in Disney's main animation department, P&TF and their future princess-centric movies seem to be nothing more than just blatant feature-length ads for their Princesses merchandising line.

[Ed Liu]

Those movies weren't made just for girls nor were they made solely to fuel/promote some merchandising line like Enchanted, P&TF, Rapunzel and other princess-centered movies being made in this day and age.

How do you know anything about Rapunzel?

And I also think you're selling Enchanted way short if you thought it was just a toy commercial for little girls. I thought the movie was terrific (except maybe for the climactic fight scene) and exactly the kind of all-ages, non-gender-specific kind of movie that you say you want Disney to produce.

Disney did want Enchanted to tie into the Princesses line, and backed out because they didn't want to license Amy Adams' likeness forever. It seemed to me that Enchanted didn't generate a lot of merchandise at all, although I admit I don't wander down the pink toy aisles all that much.


Possibly, if it has very poor writing and is made to appeal just to very young girls.

"If" is the operative word in your sentence here, but it's also one that you don't seem to acknowledge in any of your other statements.

The major difference between The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast and The Princess and the Frog is the existence of the Disney Princesses phenomenon. However, this cuts both ways. If the little girls don't like Tiana and they don't like they movie, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BUY THE MERCHANDISE. Don't think that the people producing the movie, from John Lasseter on down, aren't aware of this. Tinker Bell is far more open to the accusations that it's a 90-minute merchandising commercial for Disney Fairies, and I thought it managed to dodge that bullet quite admirably.

Most of the things that people gripe about the modern-era Disney were always there. Disney, both as an individual and as a company, was always way more aware than most of the power of the cross-merchandising phenomenon. Look at the company logo -- it's Cinderella's castle, which is a tie-in to both the animated movie and the theme parks. Annette Funicello (http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/35383/walt-disney-treasures-the-mickey-mouse-club-presents-annette-1957-1958-season/) was the original Miley Cyrus. Disney was always using their cartoon characters to hawk underwear and Disney theme park vacations. The original voice actors in the classic Disney films were radio stars, so they were engaging in stunt casting back then, too.

[DarthGonzo]

I think everyone should be as postive as they can be about The Princess and the Frog. If this fails, we can kiss 2-D animation goodbye at Disney. I think that's a given. Even if you don't think you'll like it please go see it. That's the only way we'll get anything else.

[cboy305]

I don't have a doubt that this will be a good movie. Coning from the directors of The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Hercules, and Treasure Planet, it's a given. ;)
I also hate the fact that there's Political Correctness sorounding the film, but it may help the film nearing it's realease.

Also, just in case anyone doesn't know:
-Tiana's mother is voiced by Oprah
-The Prince is Black/Latin (he's not white)
-The films currently scheduled to be released dec. 25, but likely to be moved to an earlier date to avoid competition.
-Higher possibility that Disney will go all out promoting this film.

[Dr.Pepper]

Even if you don't think you'll like it please go see it. That's the only way we'll get anything else.
I think that everybody here should go and see it, five times with their whole family. Lets make this movie a blockbuster;)

[Gokou Ruri]

I think everyone should be as postive as they can be about The Princess and the Frog. If this fails, we can kiss 2-D animation goodbye at Disney. I think that's a given. Even if you don't think you'll like it please go see it. That's the only way we'll get anything else. That's a terrible reason to see a movie. I'd rather have a good 3D movie than a bad 2D movie. If it's bad and people support it, it could just lead to more poorly written films being made.

[DarthGonzo]

That's a terrible reason to see a movie. I'd rather have a good 3D movie than a bad 2D movie. If it's bad and people support it, it could just lead to more poorly written films being made.

Perhaps, but at least they'd make more and it's likely they'd hit a home run with some good ones. It's better than finally abandoning the format 100% and never looking back, right?

[Pomegranate]

How do you know anything about Rapunzel?

I've seen pictures for that movie and they make it look like a ripoff of the Barbie DTV movies.


And I also think you're selling Enchanted way short if you thought it was just a toy commercial for little girls. I thought the movie was terrific (except maybe for the climactic fight scene) and exactly the kind of all-ages, non-gender-specific kind of movie that you say you want Disney to produce.

I haven't seen Enchanted, because I was very short on money and Disney marketed it as a girl's movie, which probably made me not wanna see it at all.


Disney did want Enchanted to tie into the Princesses line, and backed out because they didn't want to license Amy Adams' likeness forever. It seemed to me that Enchanted didn't generate a lot of merchandise at all, although I admit I don't wander down the pink toy aisles all that much.

I think that's a good thing. They should make animated movies that focus on quality 1st and merchandise pushing much later one.


"If" is the operative word in your sentence here, but it's also one that you don't seem to acknowledge in any of your other statements.

I was hoping P&TF has good writing, despite seeming to be a princess-centric movie made for the sole purpose of promoting/fueling the Princesses merchandising line.


The major difference between The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast and The Princess and the Frog is the existence of the Disney Princesses phenomenon. However, this cuts both ways. If the little girls don't like Tiana and they don't like they movie, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BUY THE MERCHANDISE. Don't think that the people producing the movie, from John Lasseter on down, aren't aware of this.

I really think Lasseter himself should just stick with working for Pixar and let more creative minds run Disney's in-house animation division, because I'm not really looking the ideas he's coming up for the mouse house's in-house animation division, but hopefully, he'll help Disney's in-house animation division come up with more original screenplays right after King of the Elves is released.


Tinker Bell is far more open to the accusations that it's a 90-minute merchandising commercial for Disney Fairies, and I thought it managed to dodge that bullet quite admirably.

Well, I wasn't interested in the Tinker Bell movie for pretty much the same reasons it has gotten some backlash from others. Show/movies centered around fairies tend to be aimed towards girls, if you really think about it.


Most of the things that people gripe about the modern-era Disney were always there. Disney, both as an individual and as a company, was always way more aware than most of the power of the cross-merchandising phenomenon. Look at the company logo -- it's Cinderella's castle, which is a tie-in to both the animated movie and the theme parks. Annette Funicello (http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/35383/walt-disney-treasures-the-mickey-mouse-club-presents-annette-1957-1958-season/) was the original Miley Cyrus. Disney was always using their cartoon characters to hawk underwear and Disney theme park vacations. The original voice actors in the classic Disney films were radio stars, so they were engaging in stunt casting back then, too.

Except for maybe the Mickey Mouse Club, I think all of Disney's properties back then focused on quality 1st and were made for all demos to enjoy as well.

[Dudley]

Perhaps, but at least they'd make more and it's likely they'd hit a home run with some good ones. It's better than finally abandoning the format 100% and never looking back, right?

I want it to succeed for my own reasons.

CGI is a pain in the butt to learn, I'd much rather work on a 2D animated movie instead.

[Ed Liu]

I think that's a good thing. They should make animated movies that focus on quality 1st and merchandise pushing much later one.

The point that I'm trying to make is that they are. You're insisting that they're focusing on merchandise over the quality of the movies when there is plenty of recent evidence that contradicts your belief.


I really think Lasseter himself should just stick with working for Pixar and let more creative minds run Disney's in-house animation division, because I'm not really looking the ideas he's coming up for the mouse house's in-house animation division, but hopefully, he'll help Disney's in-house animation division come up with more original screenplays right after King of the Elves is released.

You said earlier:


Bolt doesn't just appeal to young boys, but to all other demos as well, and I really doubt P&TF can find an audience outside of very young girls and the grownups the little girls will drag with them all the way to the movies, since the general public will probably associate P&TF with the Princesses merchandising line.

If you think Bolt is a product that appeals to lots of demographics and is exactly the kind of thing you want Disney to do more of, then you should also know that Bolt used to be American Dog directed by Chris Sanders until John Lasseter had to essentially take it away from him (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/movies/04hols.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=movies) and rework the movie into what it is today. His fingerprints are all over it, and Tinker Bell, too (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=25332).

You do like the ideas he's coming up with. I think you just don't realize it.


Well, I wasn't interested in the Tinker Bell movie for pretty much the same reasons it has gotten some backlash from others. Show/movies centered around fairies tend to be aimed towards girls, if you really think about it.

I can't force you to watch the movie, but I can tell you that I had the same fears and was happy to find out I was wrong (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=26820). It's also not like other animated works aren't driven by merchandising. Disney just happens to be a lot more successful at it than most and, for a while, the company did indeed forget that the movies and TV shows have to drive the merchandise rather than the other way around. I've seen way too much stuff coming out of them in the Iger era to think that they still operate that way.

All the talk about demographics is the stuff for marketing people. The artists underneath it all aren't thinking in those terms.

[Pomegranate]

The point that I'm trying to make is that they are. You're insisting that they're focusing on merchandise over the quality of the movies when there is plenty of recent evidence that contradicts your belief.

Well, even if their modern-day princess/fairy-centric movies turn out to be far better than what I'm currently thinking of them, I'm not sure if any of them can turn blockbuster-sized profits, esp. when one of them(Rapunzel) is rumored to have a $250mil.+ budget(which doesn't even include marketing costs), and there's also the fact that the general populace doesn't trust Disney's main animation department as much as a source of quality animated flicks as they've used to decades ago.




You said earlier:

If you think Bolt is a product that appeals to lots of demographics and is exactly the kind of thing you want Disney to do more of, then you should also know that Bolt used to be American Dog directed by Chris Sanders until John Lasseter had to essentially take it away from him (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/movies/04hols.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=movies) and rework the movie into what it is today. His fingerprints are all over it, and Tinker Bell, too (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=25332).

You do like the ideas he's coming up with. I think you just don't realize it.

I said Bolt was just one of the few decent concepts Disney's main animation department came up with under Lasseter's leadership. As much as I liked Bolt, I kinda wished American Dog were made into a movie and also prefered it to Bolt, because I thought the former could've been very innovative judging by how the character designs look.

I'm not so sure if I should trust Lasseter to run Disney's main animation department so soon when he scrapped a concept that looks as innovative as American Dog, while he would greenlight something that looks like a ripoff of those Barbie DTV films(I'm looking at ya, Rapunzel).


I can't force you to watch the movie, but I can tell you that I had the same fears and was happy to find out I was wrong (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=26820). It's also not like other animated works aren't driven by merchandising. Disney just happens to be a lot more successful at it than most and, for a while, the company did indeed forget that the movies and TV shows have to drive the merchandise rather than the other way around. I've seen way too much stuff coming out of them in the Iger era to think that they still operate that way.

All the talk about demographics is the stuff for marketing people. The artists underneath it all aren't thinking in those terms.

Disney had better be very careful not to attempt to turn their main feature film animation division into a merchandise pusher, because nowadays, only whatever remains of Disney's very loyal following would only go out of their way to pay for a cinematic viewing of anything their main animation division churns out, since Eisner's leadership of Disney has dramatically tarnished the mouse house's namebrand value, which is such a shame as they've churned out more original animated concepts in its entire history during that time.:shrug:

[NayokoKihara]

^ I'm not going to jump in on the whole argument, but I'm a fan both of Disney films and the Barbie DTV's, and from what I've seen, Rapunzel from Disney doesn't look anything like the Barbie version, or any of the newer Barbie DTV's.

Barbie Rapunzel:
http://img4.sidereel.com/_icon/2fbb.jpg

Disney Rapunzel:
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/Disney-Rapunzel-Art-A-web.jpg

[Gorbash]

[quote=Pomegranate;3119097I'm not so sure if I should trust Lasseter to run Disney's main animation department so soon when he scrapped a concept that looks as innovative as American Dog, while he would greenlight something that looks like a ripoff of those Barbie DTV films(I'm looking at ya, Rapunzel).
[/quote]

You wanted Rapunzel's horrible original story? (The original idea before Lassseter changed it.)

[AlgeaX]

That's a terrible reason to see a movie. I'd rather have a good 3D movie than a bad 2D movie. If it's bad and people support it, it could just lead to more poorly written films being made.

Amen, supporting bad movies just leads to more bad movies. And I really think all this talk of death of 2D animation is a lot of baseless fear mongering. All that said I was pretty much sold on this movie the minute I heard Keith David would be in it.

[Pomegranate]

^ I'm not going to jump in on the whole argument, but I'm a fan both of Disney films and the Barbie DTV's, and from what I've seen, Rapunzel from Disney doesn't look anything like the Barbie version, or any of the newer Barbie DTV's.

Barbie Rapunzel:
http://img4.sidereel.com/_icon/2fbb.jpg

Disney Rapunzel:
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/Disney-Rapunzel-Art-A-web.jpg

Well, it does look very much like a knockoff of those Barbie DTVs more than anything else, though.


You wanted Rapunzel's horrible original story? (The original idea before Lassseter changed it.)

No, I never said that! I was actually hoping Lasseter would send Disney's adaption of Rapunzel to development hell where it really belongs forever and replace that with a completely original concept that's more innovative and has much broader family appeal instead of trying to rework this adaption.

There's also the fact this movie's target demo, which are females, generally don't watch cartoons that often, not even very young girls, so only whatever remains of the very loyal hardcore following Disney's main animation department has now would really go out of their way to pay for a cinematic viewing of their Rapunzel adaption, which would definitely spell disaster for that movie's box office.

[NayokoKihara]

^ The styles don't even look similar to one another, let alone character designs, etc. I don't know where you get that they even come close to one another.

And I think it's a load of bull that females don't watch cartoons as much as males do.

[Pomegranate]

^ The styles don't even look similar to one another, let alone character designs, etc. I don't know where you get that they even come close to one another.

Gee, I don't know! What makes you think that?:confused:


And I think it's a load of bull that females don't watch cartoons as much as males do.

Can you name me any females who watch cartoons(I mean family/children's non-action cartoons) at all? Even during their very early childhood, they usually watch MTV, have a majority of their conversations with friends on cellphones, focus on dating and other teen/adult activities.:shrug:

[Darklordavaitor]

Can you name me any females who watch cartoons(I mean family/children's non-action cartoons) at all? Even during their very early childhood, they usually watch MTV, have a majority of their conversations with friends on cellphones, focus on dating and other teen/adult activities.:shrug:
Talk about generalizing.

Next to Disney, my little sister's(age 10) favorite channel is Boomerang, and she typically eats the Disney Princess movies up. Same with my little cousins in England(5/6 and 3/4, I believe?), who last time I checked when they came over love caassic Disney movies, Dora, Diego, and the like.

[Pomegranate]

Talk about generalizing.

Sorry about that, but that's what my annoying siblings usually do and I hear stories about girls doing those very same things. Only my young niece(age 9) is the girl I know who's into cartoons at all.


Next to Disney, my little sister's(age 10) favorite channel is Boomerang, and she typically eats the Disney Princess movies up. Same with my little cousins in England(5/6 and 3/4, I believe?), who last time I checked when they came over love caassic Disney movies, Dora, Diego, and the like.

That's a good piece of info. to hear about your young siblings, but I wonder if you know any older girls who're into cartoons(again, family/children's non-action cartoons).

[Kuromi_Star]

^Teenage girl here. I watch cartoons (obviously).
I was kind of hoping that Rapunzel never happened too. I think it's going to be awful. I'm looking forward to The Princess and the Frog though

[NayokoKihara]

Teenage girl here as well, and I've watched cartoons my entire life, and still do. My younger sister (she's also a teenager) watches cartoons. My mother watches some cartoons. My aunt watches cartoons. My neice watches cartoons. Almost every girl I ever talked to at my High School watched cartoons. All the female friends I currently have watch cartoons.

Heck, even my Dentist watches some cartoons. :D

[Pomegranate]

Teenage girl here as well, and I've watched cartoons my entire life, and still do. My younger sister (she's also a teenager) watches cartoons. My mother watches some cartoons. My aunt watches cartoons. My neice watches cartoons. Almost every girl I ever talked to at my High School watched cartoons. All the female friends I currently have watch cartoons.

Heck, even my Dentist watches some cartoons. :D

Wow, you're really lucky to have people you know and trust who love animation, aren't ya;) ? But, I doubt that'll be enough to make Disney's slate of princess/fairy-centric movies into huge blockbusters. They really have to possess enough appeal to draw in the general public, esp. those who aren't even fans of Disney's in-house animated media at all, for them to ever hit it big at the box office and they really don't have enough of that appeal at this very point in time.

[DeanBurrito25]

Hopefully it'll be a huge hit and Disney will continue making 2D hand drawn films for years to come.

[GrayGhost]

I want to be hyped to see this movie but the music (songs) samples I've heard are just so horrible. Or maybe I heard just one? Well, whatever I heard from it was bad, just plain bad... no where near the quality that I expect from an animated Disney fairy tale. Here's hoping though...

[Ed Liu]

Wow, you're really lucky to have people you know and trust who love animation, aren't ya;) ? But, I doubt that'll be enough to make Disney's slate of princess/fairy-centric movies into huge blockbusters. They really have to possess enough appeal to draw in the general public, esp. those who aren't even fans of Disney's in-house animated media at all, for them to ever hit it big at the box office and they really don't have enough of that appeal at this very point in time.

I still vehemently dispute your declaration that this movie will have zero appeal for anybody but little pink girly girls who are girly, if nothing else because there are so many people here who are ready to refute you on it. However, even if we accept that it's true, Disney Princesses pulls in $4 billion in sales (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=26890) annually. Even if you assume every girl spends the ridiculous amount of $500 a year on Princesses stuff, that comes out to 8 million girls. If each of them takes ONE parent to see this movie just because it's Disney Princesses and guessing that they're spending $20 on tickets per pair, that comes out to $160 million in ticket sales just from them. If half of them see it again, we're up to $240 million, which is $20 million more than what the more or less gender-neutral WALL-E grossed domestically.

Disney Princesses does not have to appeal outside its demographic to make enough money for the people making the decisions to pay attention.

The other data point is that both The Dark Knight and Spider-Man, from the outside, look like the kind of movies made almost exclusively for a male audience, mostly in the teen to young-adult bracket. They did not rack up the ticket sales they did without appealing to women or other people outside the demographic. I do not see any inherent reason why The Princess and the Frog can't do the same thing.

[Kuromi_Star]

Yeah most of the girls I know have no problem watching cartoons. I have plenty of female friends who are saying "I'm going to miss the House of Mouse" and stuff like that.

People like disney princess movies like this because they are safe. They don't go around acting like miley and this particular movie will make money because the mothers of black girls will finally get to buy something for their daughters that look like them. They can say "look you can be a princess too." I didn't get that when I was 8 so my parents brought Pocohantas merchandise sometimes because we're part Native american(and the fact that it's a family nickname for both me and my mom I guess) but you have to realize that disney just got a whole new market. Girls whose parents don't want them playing with a sasha bratz doll but are a little upset that they can't really find anything else that looks like them. Marketing this movie is not going to be hard if they don't do anything else remotely contriversial.

[Dr.Pepper]

And I think it's a load of bull that females don't watch cartoons as much as males do.
I honestly think that more men watch cartoons. I mean on this website, there is like one woman for every three men. I am a girl and 99% of all the shows and movies that I care about are cartoons.

[Pomegranate]

I'm well aware that the Princesses and Fairies franchises have brang in billions annually, but that doesn't necessarily mean any animated media connected to these 2 franchises will always draw in a massive audience. I really don't see P&TF, Rapunzel, Tinker Bell(if it ever gets a cinematic adaption at all) and other animated movies connected to the Princesses and Fairies franchises pulling in hundreds of millions at the box office if Enchanted, a live-action movie with animated segments in it, only made a little over $100M domestically.

Animated media based upon properties with a huge following can still underperform or flop. For instance, while Spectacular Spiderman does pull in decent ratings for the CW4Kids, neither that nor any other animated Spiderman adaptions for that matter have set the world on fire, even though they're all based upon one of the most mainstream properties of all time.

TDK, the Spiderman movies and their ilk are a completely different animal, because they're live-action adaptions of properties that appeal to children although they were made for the older demos, thus have greater mass appeal than anything animated for that matter.

[Akelexre]

A few things:

--I can't believe Randy Newman is doing the music for this. Are you kidding me? A musical set in early 1900's New Orleans and you couldn't get actual good New Orleans musicians to make a soundtrack? Ugh. I swear the music was the worst thing about that trailer.

--I don't know what they changed, or what they didn't change, as no one is officially speaking up on that or providing the background. So I'm withholding judgement. None of us know for sure so we shouldn't jump on Disney for conceding ground to people who may well actually know better. (How many black animators ARE there at Disney, anyway? How many are working on this movie or have any kind of creative input?)

However, hopefully the animators have done their research and there are black people and/or consultants on staff who can help the movie give as accurate and believable portrayl of New Orleans as possible.

My biggest concern is that they would be lazy and fall back on stereotypes and assumptions and therefore create a seriously flawed and subpar product. There will always be people who complain, but generally if you do your research, bring in experts and put a lot of thought and care into your product it works out (HOW many protests were there against Avatar? The creators obviously did their homework and brought in people who knew.)

--Maddy is a horrible name and sounds way too close to Mammy and NO there aren't a lot of black people with that name. Get out with that. :yawn:

--First African-American princess. Cool. Black girls and women have very few role models who look like them in the mass media; this is nice.

--2D animation forever.

[Starlioness]

^Akel, Maddy's name is now Tiana.. not too crazy about the new name.. but it does sound better than Maddy..

I'd reserve judgement till the final soundtrack is released.. there maybe a few bad notes... but I don't think all the songs or at least the score is going to stink..

now, is this story based on the Frog princess? or the Frog Prince? I know origianlly it was the The princess one did they change it back?

[EHH123]

Here is new beautiful picture of the film from the Disney Annual Report!

http://davidgilson.blogspot.com/2009/01/nouvelle-image-officielle-princess-and.html

I don't know if this is just a poster or something like it, but WOW! :D

By the way, I'm a new member. Hello!

[AlgeaX]

Here is new beautiful picture of the film from the Disney Annual Report!

http://davidgilson.blogspot.com/2009/01/nouvelle-image-officielle-princess-and.html

I don't know if this is just a poster or something like it, but WOW! :D

By the way, I'm a new member. Hello!

Very nice. Looks like it might be poster art.

Oh, and welcome to the madhouse man.

[Yash]

Wouldn't it be great if it she actually DOES kiss him, but he ends up being Caucasian (because Europe has little to no African Americans, let alone European Monarchy during the 1940s). Yet, she marries him anyway?:D
Yes. That is because Europe is not America.

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. Please stop using the term "African American" to describe every black person in the universe. It's racist.

[NayokoKihara]

That possible Poster art is very nice. I really love the water-lily style of her gown.

[ToonGirl]

Yes. That is because Europe is not America.

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. Please stop using the term "African American" to describe every black person in the universe. It's racist.

I'm sorry. It is just that I knew this one person who literally hated the term "black". Why? They said because it was "racist and inaccurate". :sweat:

Anyone knows when the film is set to be released yet? I am guessing sometime in July.

[NayokoKihara]

^ It's in no way fully trustworthy, but the films Wikipedia page has the Release Date set at December 25, 2009.

[Ed Liu]

^ It's in no way fully trustworthy, but the films Wikipedia page has the Release Date set at December 25, 2009.
That's real -- it turns out that Disney said so a while ago (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=22867), though I totally missed it at the time. It's kind of buried in there in the middle of the third paragraph, though, so it's easy to miss:


...the Christmas Day release of Disney's original animated fairy tale "The Princess and the Frog" from acclaimed veteran Disney directors John Musker and Ron Clements

[I.D.Will19??]

Here is new beautiful picture of the film from the Disney Annual Report!

http://davidgilson.blogspot.com/2009/01/nouvelle-image-officielle-princess-and.html

I don't know if this is just a poster or something like it, but WOW! :D

By the way, I'm a new member. Hello!

Thank You and Welcome to the forum :) !

That poster is absolutely beautiful. God I can't wait for this movie.

[Yash]

I'm sorry. It is just that I knew this one person who literally hated the term "black". Why? They said because it was "racist and inaccurate". :sweat:
Unless they get offended when someone is called "white" instead of Caucasian American, then that person is dumb.

Seriously, white guys. Black guys. Whatever.

[NayokoKihara]

That's real -- it turns out that Disney said so a while ago (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=22867), though I totally missed it at the time. It's kind of buried in there in the middle of the third paragraph, though, so it's easy to miss:
Thanks for the confirmation. http://www.hello-online.org/style_emoticons/default/c13.gif

[ToonGirl]

Unless they get offended when someone is called "white" instead of Caucasian American, then that person is dumb.

Seriously, white guys. Black guys. Whatever.

OK. Sorry for the whole thing. :)

Christmas of 2009? Oh boy. Well, at least this Christmas will be MUCH better than the one in 2008 (at least for me).

Hey, I found two videos with some concept art:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZGtH_0oLCk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyt10Oj6fQY&feature=related

Possible Scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaQ86Y6we5o&feature=related

Song, "Down In New Orleans", by Randy Newman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbLHIVSqlRw&feature=related

[Yash]

Bah. I can't stand Randy Newman's voice. The singer in the trailer was much better.

[EHH123]

http://events.animationblogspot.com/2009/01/27/princess-and-the-frog-preview/

http://news.awn.com/index.php?ltype=top&newsitem_no=26201

Here is some more info on the movie. :D

[tb4000]

So Bruce W. Smith is animating the villain, huh? I hope he's not too much like the peanut guy on Proud Family.

[EHH123]

So Bruce W. Smith is animating the villain, huh? I hope he's not too much like the peanut guy on Proud Family.
Not likley. He is voiced by Keith David aka Goliath!

[Misterian]

So, there is a new feature film.... that will be hand animated! (is that the term?)

The Princess and the Frog will be coming in 2009, if I am not mistaken. Not to mention, it will showcase the first African American Disney Princess, Princess Tiana.

However, the original name for Tiana was actually Maddy, and her original role was that of a chambermaid. People took this as a racist (but accurate; the film takes place before the Civil Rights Movement) message, and Disney acted fast.

IMO, I find this a bit silly. For one, several other stories began with the girl being poor and whatnot, and ending up becoming a Princess. How is this any different? Is it because she has darker skin? :sweat:

Secondly, this IS the 21st century. Things HAVE changed. People are different from back then, in several ways. People just need go on with their own lives.

What do you think?


I just hope this movie will be the next "proper" disney movie since Lilo and Stitch.

[EHH123]

At WonderCon:
2:30-3:30 Walt Disney Animation Studios: The Art of 2D Visual Effects—Craig Sost and Marlon West talk about the challenges that blending characters and EFX in a hand-drawn, 2D animation medium presents in creating drama. Featuring a key scene from Walt Disney Animation Studios' next release Princess and the Frog, which the moderators will take apart to illustrate the magic of the production process. Room 220

[EHH123]

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/New-Footage-Of-Disney-s-Next-Screens-At-Toy-Fair-12019.html
Some Spoilers. I have just gained a little more faith in the film.

[NewcomerDC]

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/New-Footage-Of-Disney-s-Next-Screens-At-Toy-Fair-12019.html
Some Spoilers. I have just gained a little more faith in the film.
The link is fail because it then turns into an ad for Flirt.com

[Dr.Pepper]

The link is fail because it then turns into an ad for Flirt.com
Really? It works for me

[Linkpre]

Since this topic looks like more of a news one, I'll post this here.

----

It's not much, but it looks like The Princess and the Frog has got a new logo. You can see it on the official site. The only thing they really changed is the thickness of the "Frog" part of the title.

They also added the words "December 11th" for the release date of the movie.

[tb4000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbCT0pG5iw4&feature=player_embedded

Lassetter discussing the flick, along with some new actual clips of the thing.

[Kuromi_Star]

Ha ha it's like they made Gaston the prince

[Foodin]

I hope this movie succeeds in the theatre, because I don't want Disney's animation studio to die!

[Dr.Pepper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbCT0pG5iw4&feature=player_embedded

Lassetter discussing the flick, along with some new actual clips of the thing.
Its official. I am so seeing this

[Lavenderpaw]

Since this topic looks like more of a news one, I'll post this here.

----

It's not much, but it looks like The Princess and the Frog has got a new logo. You can see it on the official site. The only thing they really changed is the thickness of the "Frog" part of the title.

They also added the words "December 11th" for the release date of the movie.

Hopefully it works out.

[Mistah K88]

I thought this movie was going to be released in May...


Its official. I am so seeing this


I know right?! Those small clips alone of Dr. Facilier makes me belive he is going to be a classic Disney villain, right up there with Scar, Jafar, Hades, Ursula...the list goes on. Plus, with Keith David's voice, he's going to be a BLAST.

However, I did like the name Maddy (Madelyn) better than Tiana as it fits the time period more. I'm black and even I know that you really have to work to make Maddy sound like mammy. That is like thinking the word "bigger" sounds too much like another offensive word in the black community; it's not the first thing you think of unless you are looking for it. Sure I don't think they are going for COMPLETE historical accuracy (look at Hercules), but still small things like that would be nice. Atleast they have Tiana doing some kind of labor job (waitressing), or it would seem like they are tring to rewrite history to make things more suitable for oversensitive people.

[creativerealms]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbCT0pG5iw4&feature=player_embedded

Lassetter discussing the flick, along with some new actual clips of the thing.

I'm so there when it's released.

[tb4000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6DmEgtibOg&feature=player_embedded

And here is the trailer. Uncle Walt, we missed your touch.

[Old Guy]

So...if this movie takes place in New Orleans how are these people royalty. :confused:

[tb4000]

So...if this movie takes place in New Orleans how are these people royalty. :confused:
Mardi Gras.

[Mistah K88]

Mardi Gras.

Exactly, Naveen is a prince from a fictional county and Tiana isn't a princess...Naveen just thinks she is because of how she is dressed. Which I believe she is dressed that way because of Mardi Gras.

This film looks beautiful, absolutely stunning. Funny how they mention having 75 years of animation in the trailer but they only show stuff from the 90's.

[Shift]

Seeing how Tiana becomes a frog instead of Naveen turning back to a human reminds me of what happened in Shrek, except this time the reversal is bad and must be fixed. :p

[Doctor Nick]

Extremely impressed by the trailer. I do love all the recent CGI films, but I gotta say that the classic 2-D hand drawn animation just looks so wonderful. I think this is going to be another Disney classic, just like the ones they mentioned at the begining of the trailer.

[Elven Moon]

After watching the trailer, I feel excited. I've missed their 2D stuff so much it's enough to make me cry. I still don't know if I'm going to like the movie that much (something seemed off, I don't know how to explain), but I will be seeing it.

[tb4000]

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3668/princessfrog.jpg

[SkullsandRoses]

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3668/princessfrog.jpg

I really like that! I can't wait to see this film. :anime:

[AdamYJ]

Personally, I am shocked and appalled! Appalled and shocked! They set a new Disney movie in a city with a lot of French influence and then have the audacity to refer to one of the main characters as a "frog"! It's a disgrace!

:p Naw, just kidding. Really, it looks good.


Seeing how Tiana becomes a frog instead of Naveen turning back to a human reminds me of what happened in Shrek, except this time the reversal is bad and must be fixed. :p

She should have just tried chucking him at a wall. It worked in the version of the story I read: http://fairytales4u.com/story2/frog.htm

[MegaJ]

I was fine watching the trailer until "DIS GUNNA BE GUUUUUUUUD."

I'm probably just a little oversensitive.

[Doctor Nick]

I think it's kind of cool that they're taking the classic fairy tale of the princess kisses the frog and he turns in to a prince, but now the princess will be turning in to a frog as well. It seems fresh and creative.

[EHH123]

I think it's kind of cool that they're taking the classic fairy tale of the princess kisses the frog and he turns in to a prince, but now the princess will be turning in to a frog as well. It seems fresh and creative.
Actually, I've seen this "princess turned into a frog" thing done before. However, it is usually the punchline for a fairy tale gag. To do a serious (in the loosest sense of the word) take on this will be interesting.

[Spideyzilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6DmEgtibOg&feature=player_embedded

And here is the trailer. Uncle Walt, we missed your touch.

Oh.... my..... This will rock.

[Kuromi_Star]

Ok I'm excited now, this will be good.

[Lavenderpaw]

Not bad looking. Definitely worth the consideration.

[Doctor Nick]

I'm loving all the color in that one sheet that was posted. I also like the fact that we get to see what some of the supporting characters look like. Between John Goodman, Oprah, and Terrence Howard... the voices for those supporting characters should definitely be well read.

[Racattack!Force]

Several people, including members of the NAACP, have giving the movie a thumps-up. When one of the largest organizations for the right of colored people says a movie isn't at all racist, you'd think people will stop whining. But no...:shrug:

[SuperStantzio]

Sounds good. I can't wait to see it.:)

[Frollo85]

What I don't get is all the controversy surrounding this movie.

Disney are making a movie with an African-American heroine, and STILL people are complaining. Why? Because the Prince is not black!

Thankfully there is a backlash to the backlash. The complainants are sounding racist themselves, complaining that the male protagonist is white (I don't think he's completely white anyway). I'm sure they'll also get attacked by people in inter-racial relationships.

The controversy will either help or hinder this movie. I'm hoping it helps, because a lot of people are standing up for it.

Personally, I can't wait, and I hope this film restarts traditional animation at Disney.... not being a Pixar fan myself, I really really miss the old Disney....

[creativerealms]

People always find things to complain about. First they complained about the main female's name, then they were complaining about the skin color of the prince (And still are) and now people are complaining that it takes place in New Orleans and that's insensitive.

God people just complain.

[Frollo85]

You're right.... I just hope the complaints don't hurt the movie - I want it to rake in big bucks!

Need some big voices to stand up and shout the complainers down for their rediculous sniping - like Oprah Winfrey perhaps! I think she's both a voice in the movie and the film's 'racial consultant' - Disney turned to her to make sure they got all the race stuff right.

Plus, she's one of the most influential women in the world (or that's what I read anyway!)

[Doctor Nick]

Anika Noni actually addressed it briefly in this interview (http://www.webcastr.com/videos/celebs/disneys-first-black-princess.html). She makes a lot of excellent and interesting points. First of all she says the Prince is not white, but it technically shouldn't matter what color he is, that the love between the Princess and and the Prince is bigger then that. Also, she said that if she found the story disrespectful in any way, she would not support it. Hopefully this will put an and end to that debate and we can get back to looking forward to how good this movie will be.

[tb4000]

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1457/theprincessandthefrog5.jpg


http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/502/theprincessandthefrog8.jpg


http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4456/theprincessandthefrog6.jpg

[blazecat]

I really don't understand all the controversy. I'm not going to judge this movie until I see it myself.

Side Note: I hope Dr. Facilier is one awesome villain!:evil:

[Dr.Pepper]

I wonder if this movie becomes a blockbuster hit, other companies like Dreamworks will start making hand drawn movies.

[EHH123]

I love the pictures. They are so beautiful. Speaking of which, is anyone getting a Mark Twain vibe from that raft picture? I can almost hear banjos whenever I look at it. I also love that Tania looks likes she wants to knock Naveen on the head for just sitting there and not helping out.

[Radical-X]

Good. It's about time and I don't get why people are making such a big stink over it. Here's the article:

http://www.comcast.net/news/badeaupov/939/disneysfirstblackprincessdrawsfire/

[blazecat]

http://www.comcast.net/news/badeaupov/939/disneysfirstblackprincessdrawsfire/

Man, everyone's a critic. I really hope this movie doesn't flop.

[mowub]

The way I see it is that this is a difficult position Disney's in. If the movie does poorly because of the content controversy, I feel they might give up on making any more 2D.

[creativerealms]

I doubt the controversy will hurt that much, people just like to complain. You can't please everyone. And it seems that for every one person complaining you have five people looking forward to this movie. And hey it's a risk and risks are good. If Disney wanted to play it safe they would not even tried another 2-D animated movie at this point and time, not when they seem to be dead.

I really don't want this movie to flop.

[tb4000]

One of the comments on that link was basically "how come blacks always get angry?" Which bugs the hell out of me as we are not some monolithic hive mind...we all have differing views, man. Some of us are for it, some are against it. I believe it's more the former than the latter, but the loudest voice always represents the entire race apparently.

[batsy2]

I think this going to be an awsome film. Despite people saying its going racist i don't care its going to be amazing seeing a 2-D animated film by Disney after all these years. Btw the pictures look beautiful

[Mistah K88]

One of the comments on that link was basically "how come blacks always get angry?" Which bugs the hell out of me as we are not some monolithic hive mind...we all have differing views, man. Some of us are for it, some are against it. I believe it's more the former than the latter, but the loudest voice always represents the entire race apparently.

Trust me I know exactly how you feel...*sigh*


ANYWAY, where did those pictures come from tb4000? I wish to see them in a larger size, especially the family pic.

[SkullsandRoses]

Trust me I know exactly how you feel...*sigh*


ANYWAY, where did those pictures come from tb4000? I wish to see them in a larger size, especially the family pic.

http://www.disneylicious.com/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=4

There you go. :)

[Doctor Nick]

Agree! pictures look great. The 2-D animation is going to look great on the big screen. I'm sure some kids haven't even had a chance to see a 2-D animated movie in a theater, so I'm glad Disney is trying to give them a new fairy tale classic that they can enjoy.

[Doctor Nick]

Also, here is a really excellent video interview (http://www.awntv.com/videos/the-princess-and-the-frog-featurette) with the animators of the film, talking about what it means to them to have the chance to do another hand drawn animated film. It's a really nice and touching video.

[Ed Liu]

"Princess and the Frog" Gets More Criticism for Cajun Stereotypes (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/30625/princess-and-the-frog-gets-more-criticism-for-cajun-stereotypes)

Ray the Firefly kind of annoyed me because he seemed like a stupid character, but I can see why Cajuns would get mad about him. Still, I can't help but read the suggestion by the CODOFIL president and mentally complete his sentence with, "...and I can help you avoid that mistake if you hire me as a consultant for the film for the next few months. Here's my hourly rate..."

Also, just in case you guys didn't see it, there are stills (pretty sure most of them new) from P&tF in our San Diego Comic Con 2009 coverage (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/30608/sdcc2009-disney-3-d-and-animation-panel-photos-and-stills).

[lumpmoose]

If the stereotypes are so inaccurate, Disney should say "Ray the Firefly is the first mentally- and dentally-handicapped character Disney has created as part of their ongoing effort to promote diversity. The fact that you would interpret him as Cajun is an affront to the entire Cajun community."

My consulting fee is $500/hr.

[Matt Hazuda]

"Princess and the Frog" Gets More Criticism for Cajun Stereotypes (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/30625/princess-and-the-frog-gets-more-criticism-for-cajun-stereotypes)

Ray the Firefly kind of annoyed me because he seemed like a stupid character, but I can see why Cajuns would get mad about him. Still, I can't help but read the suggestion by the CODOFIL president and mentally complete his sentence with, "...and I can help you avoid that mistake if you hire me as a consultant for the film for the next few months. Here's my hourly rate..."

Also, just in case you guys didn't see it, there are stills (pretty sure most of them new) from P&tF in our San Diego Comic Con 2009 coverage (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/30608/sdcc2009-disney-3-d-and-animation-panel-photos-and-stills).God, somebody call the wahbulance already. All we need is for that ol' leach on society Al Sharpton and his friend and detriment to the civil rights movement, Jesse Jackson, to be outraged and the crybaby checklist will be fully covered.

[BigLouMan20]

Funny I didn't hear these complaints on Transformers 2. What a weird world we live in.:confused: I could care less for the whiners. I will still see this movie to support 2D animation.:)

[Master Toon]

Wait, I thought that Cajuns were French. Gambit is Cajun, right? I'm so confused.

[jph139]

Wait, I thought that Cajuns were French. Gambit is Cajun, right? I'm so confused.

As I understand it, "Cajun" refers to the descendants of the French who originally inhabited modern Louisiana - after, y'know, mixing with other groups, like the English settlers, African slaves, and Native tribes.

Oh, and The Princess and the Frog looks pretty good. I doubt it'll be the best Disney film of all time, but it's got some beautiful animation and seems pretty cute. I'll definitely be checking it out.

[Monte]

Y'know, they make such a fuss over it being the first black princess...
We've had an Arabian, a Native American, a Chinese, and a Gypsy... South American too if we include non-disney movies (well some of those were not really princesses, but close enough)...
Nobody made a big deal about it them back in the day, i don't see why people are making a big deal about it now... Y'know what would have been really amazing to see and true sign of equality and race tolerance? If people just regarded her as another princess... nothing more, nothing less

And people in an uproar over the original idea of making her a maid? That's a not too bad a gig when you compare it to Cinderella... could of had a nice rag to riches kind of story... common girl marrying a prince, becoming a princess and living happily ever after; didn't that used to be every little girl's dream? Y'know, i think people would find it a bit easier to relate to a maid than a princess... heh, i guess if there was any reason not to make her a maid it should have been "it sounds too much like cinderella" as opposed to "lets be careful not to offend people who probably shouldn't be offended"


but still, Ya, i got high hopes for the movie... 2D animation has been on a huge downturn on the feature level, and it could use a good revival... I hope it turns out well and is a sign that we may be able to relive the glory days of Disney... but i don't like all this "cultural sensitivity" and stupid controversy that comes with it... and i really hope that it doesn't drag it down


Also, here is a really excellent video interview with the animators of the film, talking about what it means to them to have the chance to do another hand drawn animated film. It's a really nice and touching video.
Y'know, part of my is actually a little surprised that they are still sticking to traditional paper and pencil methods... i would have figured they'd start going digital, like arming every animator with a decent computer and a wacom cintiq...

[Master Toon]

So I've been doing some research on this and the only complaints I've found were the prince being to light-skinned and the firefly being too much of a stereotype. I only read that someone mentioned the maid thing but it didn't escalate to anything not even an article. Also the "black community" that was mentioned in the Toon Zone link only brings up 1 black lady and 3 white guys. The black lady says, and I quote, “Finally, here is something that all little girls, especially young black girls, can embrace,”.

Cori Murray
http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?uid=AAAAAQAQ1vHea5SCqNhJrLM6IRgv0gAAAAqNyKOfqvpvHMrpDVCOrIm5

Warren Perrin
http://www.doyletics.com/images/66warann.jpg

Willaim Blackburn
http://williamblackburn.com/images/William.jpg

Micheal Baran
http://www.cambridgediversity.com/images/about/michael.jpg

:^: This guy never really complained he only said that kids can catch on to subtle messages about race and gender in movies.


As I understand it, "Cajun" refers to the descendants of the French who originally inhabited modern Louisiana - after, y'know, mixing with other groups, like the English settlers, African slaves, and Native tribes.

Oh, ok.


Y'know, they make such a fuss over it being the first black princess...
We've had an Arabian, a Native American, a Chinese, and a Gypsy... South American too if we include non-disney movies (well some of those were not really princesses, but close enough)...
Nobody made a big deal about it them back in the day, i don't see why people are making a big deal about it now..

Well I heard someone say that the lyrics in Aladdin were a bit racist.

----------

My thoughts: There shouldn't be too much to complain about seeing as how it takes place in the 20's but why couldn't it take place in a more modern time and in Africa? I'm not saying Disney should've gone through any trouble so people couldn't complain but it's not any trouble at all to make it more accurate. Just like Mulan and Jasmine's stories took place in their native lands, why not Triana? That would also make the whole princess thing make more sense because I've never heard of a Louisianian Prince before.

[Starlioness]

So I've been doing some research on this and the only complaints I've found were the prince being to light-skinned and the firefly being too much of a stereotype. I only read that someone mentioned the maid thing but it didn't escalate to anything not even an article. Also the "black community" that was mentioned in the Toon Zone link only brings up 1 black lady and 3 white guys. The black lady says, and I quote, “Finally, here is something that all little girls, especially young black girls, can embrace,”.

Cori Murray
http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?uid=AAAAAQAQ1vHea5SCqNhJrLM6IRgv0gAAAAqNyKOfqvpvHMrpDVCOrIm5

Warren Perrin
http://www.doyletics.com/images/66warann.jpg

Willaim Blackburn
http://williamblackburn.com/images/William.jpg

Micheal Baran
http://www.cambridgediversity.com/images/about/michael.jpg

:^: This guy never really complained he only said that kids can catch on to subtle messages about race and gender in movies.



Oh, ok.



Well I heard someone say that the lyrics in Aladdin were a bit racist.

----------

My thoughts: There shouldn't be too much to complain about seeing as how it takes place in the 20's but why couldn't it take place in a more modern time and in Africa? I'm not saying Disney should've gone through any trouble so people couldn't complain but it's not any trouble at all to make it more accurate. Just like Mulan and Jasmine's stories took place in their native lands, why not Triana? That would also make the whole princess thing make more sense because I've never heard of a Louisianian Prince before.


I think the same.. but maybe it'd be too comparable to lion king?. but then lots of Disney movies were set in France so.. *shrug*..

and Monte's post sums up my feelings for the movie.. I'm glad to see a Black Heroine in a Disney film and being a 2-D film.. but for some reason people think that's the ONLY reason to see this movie.. I remember being excited to see Dinosaur and Atlantis and being a bit disappointed after seeing them later :/..

but I could be really surprised by the movie .. who knows?...

oh yeah,I remember Pocahontas's "Savages" lyrics being changed at the last minute too.. maybe Hunchback's Hellfire.. hmm...

[Mistah K88]

Y'know, they make such a fuss over it being the first black princess...
We've had an Arabian, a Native American, a Chinese, and a Gypsy... South American too if we include non-disney movies (well some of those were not really princesses, but close enough)...
Nobody made a big deal about it them back in the day, i don't see why people are making a big deal about it now... Y'know what would have been really amazing to see and true sign of equality and race tolerance? If people just regarded her as another princess... nothing more, nothing less

And people in an uproar over the original idea of making her a maid? That's a not too bad a gig when you compare it to Cinderella... could of had a nice rag to riches kind of story... common girl marrying a prince, becoming a princess and living happily ever after; didn't that used to be every little girl's dream? Y'know, i think people would find it a bit easier to relate to a maid than a princess... heh, i guess if there was any reason not to make her a maid it should have been "it sounds too much like cinderella" as opposed to "lets be careful not to offend people who probably shouldn't be offended"

Actually...in terms of Aladdin, the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee complained about the portrayal of the lead characters Aladdin and Jasmine in comparison to the other characters in terms of physical features. They criticized the characters' Anglicized features and Anglo-American accents, in contrast to the other characters in the film, who are dark-skinned, have Arab accents and grotesque facial features, and appear villainous or greedy.

Pocahontas also had some complaints about her physical appearance as well... We may not have seen these controversies all those years ago (I was a kid) but that doesn't mean they didn't exist...

As for the maid thing, I wouldn't have cared that much because it's pretty accurate for that time period (My grandma used to work as a maid for a white family). However, I'm good with her being a waitress and having dreams to actually open up her own restuarant...I couldn't see what she would dream being a maid besides owning her own nice house. And as you said, it's a bit too much like Cinderella or Snow White. So really the change from maid to waitress is one of the changes that I actually like. I do wish that they kept her name as Madelyn (Maddy), or at LEAST pulled another popular girl name from that time period like Irene, Lillian, or Anna...Oh well...

Now when it comes to being set in Africa, I would think that musically it would sound like Lion King as you would expect that they would try to portray the culture the story is about (Also, the musical scores would be compared to Lion King). With the fact that the music is jazz it makes the movie actually closer to 'black' culture rather than 'African' culture if you know what I mean... So...once again, I am pleased where this story is going (despite all the changes that went through)

[Monte]

That would also make the whole princess thing make more sense because I've never heard of a Louisianian Prince before.

Ya that's something i'm a bit confused myself...
What exactly are they prince and princess of?


Actually...in terms of Aladdin, the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee complained about the portrayal of the lead characters Aladdin and Jasmine in comparison to the other characters in terms of physical features. They criticized the characters' Anglicized features and Anglo-American accents, in contrast to the other characters in the film, who are dark-skinned, have Arab accents and grotesque facial features, and appear villainous or greedy.

Pocahontas also had some complaints about her physical appearance as well... We may not have seen these controversies all those years ago (I was a kid) but that doesn't mean they didn't exist...

heh, perhaps i should have looked these things up first... as opposed to relying on my own memory... would have been to young to have payed attention to such issues


As for the maid thing, I wouldn't have cared that much because it's pretty accurate for that time period (My grandma used to work as a maid for a white family). However, I'm good with her being a waitress and having dreams to actually open up her own restuarant...I couldn't see what she would dream being a maid besides owning her own nice house. And as you said, it's a bit too much like Cinderella or Snow White. So really the change from maid to waitress is one of the changes that I actually like. I do wish that they kept her name as Madelyn (Maddy), or at LEAST pulled another popular girl name from that time period like Irene, Lillian, or Anna...Oh well...

Actually snow white started as a princess and was chased out of the castle by the queen and the huntsman... so it's just cinderella

what could a maid have dreamed of? anything
That's how it is with anyone... i mean i used to work as a waiter in a catering hall, but god knows it had nothing to with what i really wanted and was nothing more than the "part time job just to help me get by"
Really, being a maid doesn't place any limit on her.

[Dr.Pepper]

Ya that's something i'm a bit confused myself...
What exactly are they prince and princess of?
The prince is from some made up kingdom and he comes to New Orleans.

[Gorbash]

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/brewtv/princessandfrog.html Great animation and Keith David. Oh and I heard the beginning of a song there so woot (and it sounded like it would be catchy too.)

[Doctor Nick]

Keith David as the villain is going to be so awesome as the villain. He's got a perfect voice for it, really deep and rough. Excellent casting by Disney, in my opinion.

[Dr.Pepper]

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/brewtv/princessandfrog.html Great animation and Keith David. Oh and I heard the beginning of a song there so woot (and it sounded like it would be catchy too.)
I hope that part where he is laughing evily and getting bigger is in the climax.

[Time Wizard]

America is indeed way too sensitive. But I am excited for this movie as I'm tired of Disney's CGI movies. I miss the 90s...

[Doctor Nick]

It's tough to tell when that footage will be seen in the movie since it's so quick, but I agree it seems like it be pretty perfect if it was used as the climax.

As far as there CGI ones go, I'm a fan of those, but there is just something about seeing the hand drawn animation and knowing that somebody drew everything that your are seeing. Plus I love the way they make the characters look. Like Dr. Facilier in that footage, he's got those long legs, and that real skinny long face. It just looks great hand drawn!

[the greenman]

I think Disney really dropped the ball on this. They should have had enough respect to hire African American people and do a story with some meaning. They were just being highly, highly too sensitive when I read all the reports about what they changed evern from the title of the film.

Also, the story isn't even African-American, I believe it's from a German folk tale. So....

They could have gotten something done in the vein of Jeremy Love's BAYOU or hired Tyler Perry and Aaron McGruder as writers or something. It's the 21st Century, and they obviously haven't learned from the lessons, Angelina Jolie criticized Disney about a true AA princess.

To play devil's advocate though, Disney, I think is going an easy route. the color green is much more powerful, and once you give somebody something when they're hungry, they won't complain. So...

[Silverstar]

They could have gotten something done in the vein of Jeremy Love's BAYOU or hired Tyler Perry and Aaron McGruder as writers or something.


I don't think it was ever Disney's intent to do something like Bayou. They weren't out to make a "black movie" per se, they just took a classic fairy tale and gave it a Cajun setting.

We're talking about the next Disney Princess movie, not bringing something like The Boondocks or Meet the Browns to the big screen. Neither Tyler Perry nor Aaron MacGruder have any experience writing kid-friendly family movies. It would be ludicrous to hire people with no G-rated writing experience to work on a Disney feature solely because the color of their skin matches that of the protagonists. That's like saying that Disney should've only hired Middle Eastern people to work on Aladdin.

I think some people are just putting way too much emphasis on race. The best way to portray people of color in fiction I find is to not constantly zero in on the color of the characters' skin. Acknowledge the characters' ethnicity, but don't make it the primary focus of the story.

[Monterey Jack]

A FART JOKE?! :( :mad:

[Patchwork]

A FART JOKE?! :( :mad:


...so?
The Lion King had fart jokes. Hell, it had a character who's main running gag was a fart joke.

[Doctor Nick]

I'm not terrible against the fart joke...obviously it's an easy one to make, but in its defense, it always gets a laugh.

Have you all seen the new trailer (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/31102/disney-releases-new-trailer-for-the-princess-and-the-frog)? It's looking pretty good, this one has a bunch of snippets from the songs and from the sound of it, I think this one will be pretty special. Make sure you have the volume up when you watch.

[judyindisguise]

I think Disney really dropped the ball on this. They should have had enough respect to hire African American people and do a story with some meaning. They were just being highly, highly too sensitive when I read all the reports about what they changed evern from the title of the film.

I agree about the title change. What a blunder. "The Princess and the Frog" sounds extremely kiddie, and, well, lame. "The Frog Princess" sounded much more clever (a twist on the old story title "The Frog Prince".) When I heard that Disney changed the title to avoid offending the French, I just about plotzed. Yeesh! Makes me think about the hassle Walt himself faced when he announced the title of "Lady and the Tramp". RKO, Disney's film distributor, and others in the Disney org. wanted the title changed because of the negative connotations of the word "tramp". Walt stuck by his guns and thank heaven he did. "Lady and the Tramp" has an impact precisely because of the word tramp and its opposite meaning (in one sense of the word) to "lady". Walt knew what he was doing. Pity the suits at Disney don't have his faith in good ideas. :sad:

As for the new trailer...well, it looks cute and all, but...why am I not overly impressed? I fully expected to be. Maybe it's the generic character designs (the frogs look bland as heck, so does the alligator, and that firefly has to be the most unappealing Disney character on record.) It all looks so...formula. Ah well. I'll still go see the film, of course, but I've lowered my expectations.

[HG Revolution]

Eh, this new trailer activated my inner cynic. Must have been the animals singing about wanting to be human again. Too Beauty and the Beast. Hopefully this movie has a strong style of its own.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

I liked the trailer for this movie, I think the animation is sharp and very well done. I didn't say the moves and the ways characters have acted in the movie were original, per say. I think that Disney haven't done hand drawn animation in a really long time. It would be exciting to see what they come up with in terms of the story. How they re done it to fit their own version of it.
It would be nice of Disney to do an animted film from the Prince's point of view (male oriented perhaps), instead of always focussing on princesses all the time. (some fo you said that also)

Also no matter on how hard you try to please people you can't please everybody! There is always going to be someone unhappy with the changes.

[kaseykockroach]

Ah, yes. A fart joke. Soon, we shall see the return of hand-crafted animation, folks! This film shall bring the return of 2-D!! Whether or not it's good 2-D is another story...

[baycrum267]

As for the new trailer...well, it looks cute and all, but...why am I not overly impressed? I fully expected to be. Maybe it's the generic character designs (the frogs look bland as heck, so does the alligator, and that firefly has to be the most unappealing Disney character on record.) It all looks so...formula. Ah well. I'll still go see the film, of course, but I've lowered my expectations.I agree with you but I'm not seeing it.
I was all hyped up and it just is unappealing to me.

[Uncle Beaglebub]

Looks interesting. I had given up hope that Disney would ever do a traditional animated movie again.

[Doctor Nick]

I'm OK with this being a little formulaic. In my opinion Disney's magic is what draws me to their films, and I think this will bring that aspect. Also, we have to remember it's been years since kids have gotten the chance to see a Disney 2-D fairytale in theaters, so they maybe have just gone to their bread and butter when it comes to formulas for the story.

[animatedsuperheroes]

Whether or not I am interested in this movie, I will go see it simply to support their decision to return to traditional animation. But it just so happens that I think the film looks good, so bonus!

[Ed Liu]

Hey, look:

New "Princess & the Frog" Video Clips; Offers Discounted Preview Tickets (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/31234/new-princess-amp-the-frog-video-clips-offers-discounted-preview-tickets)

No, really. Go look! We can use the clickthroughs :).

[The Cartoon]

Holy crap, I can't believe that I haven't posted in this thread yet. After all, Princess and the Frog my must-see movie of the year. I don't know about everyone else, but just by seeing the trailers, animation, characters, etc., this already feels like a Disney Classic to me. I'm thrilled that Disney has gone back to 2D animation and I can only hope that it does great so that they do this more often and realize that people still do love this kind of animation. I'm already predicting a "Best Animated Feature" nominee at the Academy Awards if not a win. "Up" will be awfully hard to beat, but as you can tell, I have very high expectations.

[Marvin Tikvah]

I wasn't really paying attention to this film until I saw the commercials for the sneak peek in Los Angeles.

I'll admit I'm tempted, but there's really nothing about the movie that has sold me on its quality. Sure it has some nice 2D animation and its premise is close to what classic Disney worked with, but there just seems to be something missing that keeps it from reaching my "must-see" list.

I'll probably end up buying it on DVD, but its not likely to replace Toy Story 3 in my day one viewing list.

[Doctor Nick]

The thing that makes it a must see for me is Disney's return to musical film. When they combine the two, they always do a great job and it makes for a memorable experience. Plus, those clips that were posted before are great! I love the fact that Disney is creating a strong female lead for this film. Someone that young girls can look up to. It seems that she really works hard to attain goals that she has set for her self, and that's something we don't see a lot in animated movies.

[Ed Liu]

Two New Videos on Disney's "The Princess and the Frog" (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/31283/two-new-videos-on-disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog)

There's also a clip of the opening 6 minutes of the movie on the upcoming Snow White DVD/Blu-ray combo disc that's streeting next Tuesday. Looking pretty good, although I don't know that it looks quite Beauty and the Beast or Aladdin good yet.

[DCU Bat]

I've seen all the Disney previews they've released on the internet and.....Is it me or does this movie seem like a princess version of Emperor's New Groove?

I mean with the Animal Transformations, the Sorcerer-like character, the whole two character who at first don't like each other go on an adventure to undo their transformations?

I can't make my judgment until I actually see the movie but based on the previews I've seen, It seems to lack that Epic scale from the Renaissance Disney films so I hope at least the Music is great.

Frog Tiana does look kinda cute though :anime:

[HG Revolution]

First five minutes: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/the-first-5-minutes-of-the-princess-and-the-frog.html

I have to say this has zapped some of my enthusiasm about this movie. Generic moral message overload in the first five minutes doesn't seem like a smart way to start a movie. "Circle of Life" it ain't. I hope the rest of the movie is better than this.

[TheVileOne]

I've seen all the Disney previews they've released on the internet and.....Is it me or does this movie seem like a princess version of Emperor's New Groove?

I mean with the Animal Transformations, the Sorcerer-like character, the whole two character who at first don't like each other go on an adventure to undo their transformations?

Sorcer like character and animal transformations weren't exactly pioneered by the Emperor's New Groove.

[Doctor Nick]

I enjoyed the footage, obviously they're just trying to set up the rest of the story in what we saw. However, what impressed me the most was how quickly I became attached to the characters. Within 30 seconds of seeing Tiana's father, your able to see the strong bond he has with his daughter, and how close the family is in general. This will obviously help me become more interested in the story.

[soundmonkey44]

I agree with posters who say this remindes them of new groove, Its just reverse instead of a prince being turned into a lama its a Princess turned into a frog (wich makes me wonder if new groove was inspired by the classic fairytale this movie is based upon.)

I still look foward to seeing it when it comes out but my expectations are slightly lower then previously. But again im just glad Disney is doing theatrical 2d animations again, for a while there i thought they were all doomed to be direct to DVD cannon fodder. I just hop this does well enough in theatres to warrent disney to start making films of this kind on a regular basis like they used to. If all the past "Disney Magic" perse hasn't been completly killed by 5+ years of Teenybopper junk that is.

[Ed Liu]

I enjoyed the footage, obviously they're just trying to set up the rest of the story in what we saw. However, what impressed me the most was how quickly I became attached to the characters. Within 30 seconds of seeing Tiana's father, your able to see the strong bond he has with his daughter, and how close the family is in general. This will obviously help me become more interested in the story.

I'm inclined to agree. The thing that strikes me the most about those early minutes is how loud and clear the strong family bond is between Tiana and her parents. It's not something that happens too often in Disney films, where parents tend to be distant and clued-out figures at best, and antagonists (unintentional (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/12761/the-little-mermaid-platinum-edition-grand-release-of-an-almost-magical-film) or intentional (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/14819/cinderella-iii-makes-real-movie-magic)) to the kids who are the leads at worst.

I completely did not recognize either Terrence Howard as dad or Oprah Winfrey (!) as mom, which is a good thing. I think Howard does such a wonderful, warm job as the father.

[HomeMoviesFan]

First five minutes: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/the-first-5-minutes-of-the-princess-and-the-frog.html

I have to say this has zapped some of my enthusiasm about this movie. Generic moral message overload in the first five minutes doesn't seem like a smart way to start a movie. "Circle of Life" it ain't. I hope the rest of the movie is better than this.

Wow, have they really learned nothing? You don't start an animated musical with sappy, moralistic scenes involving character development. Exposition should be built immediately with a huge musical number, ergo being an animated musical, one that plays with theatrical structure such as having an opening number. Every Disney hit does this, even "Little Mermaid" had "Fathoms Below". I kept waiting for the musical number to start off and sweep the audience off its feet.

From what I saw at D23 and elsewhere, the songs aren't all too great. For Randy Newman this is a little less "Toy Story" and "Cats Don't Dance" and a little more "James and the Giant Peach". In other words, not his best work. This could turn out to a be a major disappointment, mostly because no one's staying true to what worked prior. Lasseter refused to use Alan Menken, and Musker and Clements refuse to do what worked in their previous hits. Um, yeah, way to evoke nostalgia, guys.

Speaking of "Cats Don't Dance", the little girl that Tiana plays with in the beginning looks an awful lot like Darla Dimple. Just saying...

[Doctor Nick]

Yea, I hear what your saying. Those big musical numbers at the begining of films always gives the audience goose bumps and has them excited for whats to come. Perhaps and fingers crossed that occurs with in the first 10 minutes, we saw the first 5, so hopefully they go on to a scene that gives a good opening number.

[Ed Liu]

Wow, have they really learned nothing? You don't start an animated musical with sappy, moralistic scenes involving character development. Exposition should be built immediately with a huge musical number, ergo being an animated musical, one that plays with theatrical structure such as having an opening number. Every Disney hit does this, even "Little Mermaid" had "Fathoms Below". I kept waiting for the musical number to start off and sweep the audience off its feet.
I don't think the big splashy opening number is a strict requirement for musicals in general. I think Singin' in the Rain is the greatest movie musical ever made, but it doesn't start with a big splashy musical number at all, and spends a whole lot of time developing characters before it gets to one ("Fit as a Fiddle" doesn't really count, although it does establish Don and Cosmo as characters and partners in addition to being really, really fun). In fact, the first really big musical number it has is probably "Make 'Em Laugh," and that's already pretty far into the movie, when the setting and the characters are pretty well established. I don't know that "Fugue for Tinhorns" qualifies as a big musical number for Guys and Dolls in the same way as, say, "Belle" does in Beauty and the Beast. For that matter, they wait for quite some time before doing the big splashy musical number in Aladdin ("One Jump Ahead") -- while "Arabian Nights" does establish the setting for that movie, it's not exactly a huge number. I also think what we saw of Princess and the Frog does the same thing, but the more muted opening seems to fit more grounded, realistic establishing shots.

Lasseter also didn't want to use Alan Menken for this movie because they wanted this movie to hammer out its own identity separate from the other movies. Whether Randy Newman was a better choice remains to be seen, but I can respect the idea behind doing it. Honestly, I haven't been all that keen on Menken's stuff since Howard Ashman passed on, anyway, and I think using him would open them up to falling into a creative rut.

It seems to me that they don't WANT to just evoke nostalgia, so criticizing them for failing to do that may be true, but also kind of irrelevant. They want to do for the Disney animated movie musical what The Little Mermaid did for them back in the 1980's. It's the next step in the tradition, both literally and figuratively.

[EHH123]

I realized something about the cat. It is there to introduce the more cartoony elements of the film. (I mean, when was the last time you saw a cat shoot up towards the ceiling and hang its claws from there? :p) With it, Louis and Ray will seem a little less out of place.

[Rita & Runt]

However, the original name for Tiana was actually Maddy, and her original role was that of a chambermaid. People took this as a racist (but accurate; the film takes place before the Civil Rights Movement) message, and Disney acted fast.

I never heard that she WAS a maid, I only heard that the name Maddy was protested because it was a popular at the time black chambermaid name. Perhaps my source forum's members did not know as much as you do, I am not sure, but yes in general this is true.

I also agree with your points, what about Cinderella. This poor girl's stepmother had her working as the household's maid and banished from her bedroom to the fireplace which earned her the cruel nickname. She had no privileges and was treated inhumanly, much like the black servants of the civil war times were treated. Not only is that a display of slavery it's child abuse. So if Tiana presents such a negative display, then why is Cinderella not protested as well for pretty much the same idea?

While Racism is of course still somewhat of an issue today, society has grown tremendously. Slavery, and inequality for blacks is no longer an issue in today's world except for few families who still carry those old beliefs. A TV show from the 90's called Quantum Leap about a middle aged man who is sent back in time to fix things that have gone wrong in the persona of someone involved, has three episodes revolving around a prejudice black/white society at times during the civil rights movement. I used to be hooked on this show and had read behind the scenes tidbits and not once did I hear of anyone protesting these episodes and the displays within them. In fact I have seen other fans call it a very powerful display of society's errors. So why complain about a Disney animated film? Yes I can see the argument that in the case of Disney it is suppose to be child friendly, children learn from their society as well as parents. I am currently reading a book for Interpersonal Communications class about learning optimism and there is a certain psychological belief that people are what their environment shapes them to be, although not everyone agrees with this. I do believe however that it does play a large role either way. And today's society does not teach us to treat blacks as below whites. So today's children are not going to learn anything harmful.

Personally though I don't think I would have cared for the name Maddy so I am glad for that reason that it was changed, and my kid cousin's name is actually Tiana so she will get a kick out of that. And I believe Disney has always displayed other cultures is a positive and entertaininy manner, such as Jasmine(Arab), Belle(French), and Pocahontas(Native Americans and British).

[Cabel]

I admit I was hoping for a song number. But I'm not that disapointed because I really enjoyed those five minutes.

I thought they did a great job establishing the characters and what the heart of the movie will be.

And I loved looking at it. It felt like classic Disney. The exterior shots reminded me a lot of the neighborhood in Lady and the Tramp.

And I respect Lasseter for not wanting to rely on Menken, but in all fairness, we could make similar complaints about him and Newman since he scored most of Pixar's movies.

[TheVileOne]

Tiana isn't a maid. She's a New Orleans waitress that wants to open her own restaurant. I think she's friends with a rich, upperclass white girl.

[Dudley]

Tiana isn't a maid. She's a New Orleans waitress that wants to open her own restaurant. I think she's friends with a rich, upperclass white girl.

How PC.

Not that I'm complaining, because this situation really a double-edge sword. I rather they rather they make so the main character's conflict has nothing to do with race.

[Luna]

Saw the preview of the opening on the Snow White BLU-Ray....I thought it looked great(what was finished animation,anyway),and felt like a "classic" Disney film....and I did like Tiana and her parents,they seem like a nice family...
Looking forward to seeing this film....I was already,but the preview has me excited to see the rest...

[Ryusuke]

Aw, shucks. The video was taken down. Ah, well. I will see the film one way or another.

[Ed Liu]

Not that I'm complaining, because this situation really a double-edge sword. I rather they rather they make so the main character's conflict has nothing to do with race.

I suspect it will be, no matter how hard they try to avoid it, and for good reasons and bad.

However, I will say that the preview on the Snow White Blu-ray doesn't seem to address race as directly as another, possibly even more sacrosanct topic in America: social class. Tiana's friend is indeed a privileged girl whose father gives her everything she asks for, and who happens to be white. It's a pretty stark distinction between her life and Tiana's, as she returns home with her mother to a community of shacks that seems to be populated entirely by black people.

Quick -- is this difference "about" race or not? Could it be construed as being about race? Would it be implausible to make Tiana's friend black, and if so, doesn't that make some of statement about race, even if only about the way things used to be?

It is also worth pointing out that in one of the preview clips (you saw those (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/31234/new-princess-amp-the-frog-video-clips-offers-discounted-preview-tickets) on the News (http://news.toonzone.net/articles/31283/two-new-videos-on-disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog), right? ;)), a bunch of Tiana's young and seemingly upwardly mobile black friends ask if she wants to go dancing with them that night and she says she can't, with the implication that she has to work and doesn't have the disposable income to spend on going out at night. So, it's not like the movie is entirely about "white people have, black people don't." But still, the distinction is being made about the haves and the have-nots, which is still not a discussion Americans like having very much.

[EHH123]

http://www.latinoreview.com/news/interview-princess-and-the-frog-directors-john-musker-and-ron-clements-plus-7-brand-new-images-8310
Ron Clements and John Musker go in-depth into new animation techniques and inspirations for the film.

[Doctor Nick]

Great in depth interview. All the promotion behind this movie has been pretty impressive. I've really enjoyed all the short featurettes that they've done where the interview the directors and animators. I think it's cool to hear their thoughts on creating the characters.

[Gorbash]

A small preview clip of the song "Friends on the Other side." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsaQq6yHc7k&feature=player_embedded)
Even if it may be old, it's an awesome song clip.

[Doctor Nick]

Keith David was such an awesome pick to voice the villain of this film. I feel like I usually see him in comedies, but he seems to really have that deep sinister voice.

[Doctor Nick]

Just wanted to bump this thread. Collider has 6 short clips from the film (http://www.collider.com/2009/11/18/6-movie-clips-and-a-featurette-from-walt-disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog/), and some of them I thought were laugh out loud funny. I'm really excited to watch this movie after seeing those clips. It seems like Disney is taking a fresh look at the classic animated median, and providing some timeless jokes.

[Gorbash]

"I found a stick!"

The gator is going to be my favorite character.

[Dudley]

Just wanted to bump this thread. Collider has 6 short clips from the film (http://www.collider.com/2009/11/18/6-movie-clips-and-a-featurette-from-walt-disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog/), and some of them I thought were laugh out loud funny. I'm really excited to watch this movie after seeing those clips. It seems like Disney is taking a fresh look at the classic animated median, and providing some timeless jokes. The funniest clip was of the alligator trying to perform with humans.

"That didn't go so well."

[Ryusuke]

I agree. Especially the way gator was all looking at everyone after he try to play with them. XD

Poor guy then gets thrown out with guns blazing. :sweat:

[ToonGirl]

Geez where have I been these past months? I thought this thread died a long time ago... but I guess not (no complaints from me!):D

I just hope young girls can enjoy this new princess (and that the media can STHU about racism). Well, either way I would be happy.

The alligator suspiciously reminds me of the one in All Dogs Go To Heaven. Dare I say, A Big Lipped Alligator Moment? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5iZE6-a9jU&feature=related

[TheVileOne]

I loved the movie and thought it was pretty much perfect. The magic is back.

Also, give this movie the Academy Award.

All the crud being put against the movie about it being racist is also bull.

[EHH123]

I loved the movie and thought it was pretty much perfect. The magic is back.

Also, give this movie the Academy Award.

All the crud being put against the movie about it being racist is also bull.
Is there something that says or shows that this movie was looked over by Lasseter and not Katzenberg?

[Ed Liu]

Is there something that says or shows that this movie was looked over by Lasseter and not Katzenberg?
Why would Jeffrey Katzenberg be involved with this movie at all? He works for DreamWorks, not Disney, and he left Disney so long ago that any material that he might have touched has probably been ditched or heavily modified by now.

In any event, Lasseter has been in a lot of the pre-release "making of" materials, and the many interviews and such that have been linked in this thread mention his name multiple times.

[Spideyzilla]

I loved the movie and thought it was pretty much perfect. The magic is back.

Also, give this movie the Academy Award.

All the crud being put against the movie about it being racist is also bull.

You've seen it?

[TheVileOne]

You've seen it?

Yes.

EHH 123, Lasseter has not overlooked it. Lasseter is the reason it got made. He went with the crew to New Orleans and played a large role in the pre-production and getting the story together. He's the top dog at Disney Animation.

The only ones overlooking the movie are the people ready to give the oscar to Up.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

It's a great animated movie. Finally after all these years Disney had gone back to original hand-drawn animation!
I've seen the artwork for Princess and the Frog (among other Disney animated films) at New Orleans Museum of Art and it's absolutely stunning! ;)

[Doctor Nick]

That's awesome you got to see it already and that the magic is back with Disney.

I love what Lasseter is doing with Disney. Bolt, I thought was really creative and original, and it looks like that trend is going to continue with The Princess and The Frog. I'm glad he was so supportive of this film getting made.

[Mario500]

"NBC Nightly News" featured a report about the movie near the end of the program. Chris Jansing, a reporter, referred to the movie as "children's entertainment". She must not be a big lover of animated cartoons.

[Doctor Nick]

That's cool that it was getting some national news coverage. What was the report on and what did it say?

Obviously the film is geared towards kids, but I think we can all agree that their is room for an older crowd to appreciate some classic hand drawn animation as well the original song writing that goes along with it!

[Luna]

I just got the soundtrack,and I love it (hopefully,at least one song gets nominated for the Oscar..they're THAT good :anime:)....I wasn't aware Keith David could sing,but his character's song was great...I can't wait to see the actual movie...

[Mario500]

That's cool that it was getting some national news coverage. What was the report on and what did it say?


The report called the movie a milestone for having a black princess. Here is a link to a Flash video of the report:

http://nightly.newsvine.com/_video/2009/11/26/3551245-meet-tiana-disneys-first-black-princess

[Radical Raven]

My new worry is that, by declaring that they were no longer producing Hand-Drawn movies, and then (after three films) hyping this up as their triumphant return, they've built up expectations. I think this movie will be great, but not revolutionary, and that it will be critically ravaged because we've been led to expect something revolutionary.

[Ed Liu]

I think this movie will be great, but not revolutionary, and that it will be critically ravaged because we've been led to expect something revolutionary.
I don't know about that. Considering Disney's latest track record for animated movies before the Disney/Pixar merger, just being great would be a giant step in the right direction as far as the critics are concerned. The Little Mermaid isn't a "great" film when compared to Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin (and I'm pretty sure the critics said so at the time, even), but it was way better than anything that had come before it for years and that was enough to jumpstart feature animation at Disney again.

Besides, nobody actually cares what the critics say, or else Transformers 2 would have been a bomb. The bigger concern is whether or not people go to see it.

[TheVileOne]

My new worry is that, by declaring that they were no longer producing Hand-Drawn movies, and then (after three films) hyping this up as their triumphant return, they've built up expectations. I think this movie will be great, but not revolutionary, and that it will be critically ravaged because we've been led to expect something revolutionary.

Not this critic.

http://www.411mania.com/movies/film_reviews/123115/The-Princess-And-The-Frog-Review.htm

[ToonGirl]

The report called the movie a milestone for having a black princess. Here is a link to a Flash video of the report:

http://nightly.newsvine.com/_video/2009/11/26/3551245-meet-tiana-disneys-first-black-princess

Huh. I was half expecting them to conclude that with something like, "Based on the movies, it wouldn't be surprising to see a Latina Princess next time around" or something like that.

Maybe include George Lopez as a consultant? ;)