re: batman [Archive] - toonzone forums

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cat

03-06-2002, 07:10 AM

Calling all Batman fans,
I'm a student currently doing a project on re packaging the batman movies. I would really be grateful for any input anyone can give me. Please answer the following questions: What did you like and dislike about all of the Batman movies, were you reminded of the comics, what do you think of the present packaging of the vidoes and dvds, what would you like to see done to the packaging to make it better, is there any other information you can give me that you think i should know in reaching my goals.
your help will be really helpful. xxx

cat

03-07-2002, 09:37 AM

come on people, don't be shy. please give me some answers to the questions I really need some input. pleassseee!!!!!!!xx :) :)
(questions are in thread named batman)

Clayface

03-07-2002, 09:43 AM

I've merged these two threads - no need to have two separate threads for the same thing.

The Game

03-07-2002, 09:46 AM

When you say "packaging" do you mean like the cardboard snapper cases, or the format of the DVD (i.e. it's special features)?

-The Game

The Penguin

03-07-2002, 10:32 AM

Welcome cat! I hope you stick around after your assignment is done. And be sure to vote for your favorite BTAS episode in this week's poll near the top of the page. :)

First off let me say I really don't read the comics too much so I don't have any thoughts in that respect.

Batman:
I don't have too many complaints about this movie I thought it was fairly well done and had a good story to it. Maybe the introduction of Batman could have been a little better, but I was pretty happy with it.

Batman Returns:
Two words: Mutant Penguin. I hated the grotesque, balloon-like flippered, sharped toothed "Penguin Man of the Sewers." I loved the look of the 60s TV version and wasn't happy that Oswald had more than just a big nose. Otherwise I liked the movie and thought it was worth seeing.

Batman Forever:
I really liked Batman Forever and would probably consider it my favorite one. Of the three "team-up" movies Two-Face and The Riddler are able to work together the best. I thought Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones overall did a good job as the villains. I did like Val Kilmer as Batman/Bruce Wayne better than Michael Keaton, and so did Bob Kane!
When I look at it critically I suppose there are some things about it that are a bit over the top. The rubber nipples on the Bat-suit, Two-Face being more like the Joker than a man split in half between good and bad, the Bat-butt shots.

Batman & Robin: :rolleyes:
As a Batman-fan a part of me likes this movie, but as a member of the human race I hate it.
I knew it was going downhill the second Commissioner Gordon poped up on the little video screen- "Batman there's a new villain in town, he frozen over the antiquities wing of the Gotham Museum and turned the security guards into blocks of ice. He's calling himself Mr. Freeze."
I also though Gordon wearing his police uniform the whole time made him look ridiculous. He's Commissioner Gordon, not Chief O'Hara!
A lot of parts made it seem like I was watching Batman Forever again, they re-used lines that weren't good the first time and I swear they used exactly the same score. Watch them back-to-back (if you can handle it, that it) you'll see what I mean.
All those Mr. Freeze puns completely killed any pain the character should have shown over his wife being frozen. When he went to vistor her it was right after he had led his henchmen in a sing-along. :rolleyes:
Poison Ivy was ok, but Bane was just terrible. They completely changed him and it wasn't for the better.
Two words: Sky surfing!
Since I had so many problems with this one it was easy to come up with ideas and it gave me a lot to say.
I did like Alicia Silverstone as Batgirl though, which reminds me of another problem Barbara is Commissioner Gordon's daughter, not Alfred's niece.

Other thoughts:
One bright spot of the series was easily Michael Gough as Alfred. He just did a fantastic job (even in B&R) and the best and most consistant of all the actors.
I also liked Pat Hingle as Commissioner Gordon. I feel he really did a good job (well except B&R, but that wasn't really his fault) in all the films.
I liked the art on all of the Batman videos if that's the kind of comment you're looking for.

Again welcome cat, if you have a question about something I've written let me know and I'll try to answer it later today. :)

The Guard

03-07-2002, 10:37 AM

I did like Alicia Silverstone as Batgirl though, which reminds me of another problem Barbara is Commissioner Gordon's daughter, not Alfred's niece.

In BATMAN AND ROBIN, Barbara was made into Alfred's niece, because the producers felt she was too young to be Gordon's daughter. Look at him, he was like 60! :)

The Penguin

03-07-2002, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by The Guard
In BATMAN AND ROBIN, Barbara was made into Alfred's niece, because the producers felt she was too young to be Gordon's daughter. Look at him, he was like 60! :)

Ok say she's 20. That would mean Gordon was like 40 when he had Barbara. Is it the standard-no. Could it happen-yes. Just think about BTAS Commissoner Gordon once. The movie and animated wouldn't really be that far apart in age.

The Game

03-07-2002, 01:18 PM

Batman: Michael Keaton is an awful Batman. No matter how many people think he's the best, I still think he's to shrimpy and... Well, kinda dorky looking to be Batman or Bruce Wayne. I hate the fact that Joker killed Bruce's parents- that person should be unknown, it totally takes away from Batman's whole mission. I hate the fact that Batman kills Joker at the end- Batman doesn't kill.

Batman Returns: Too dark and weird. I don't understand why they had to have Penguin's henchmen be a freak circus- what did that have to do with anything? Remind us he's a mutant freak? Okay, we get it. The Catwoman fem-domme thing with the latex is a little out there, but it's sexy, so who cares. Overall, the film is too... Tim Burton. I too, wish that the Penguin had been slightly more like the '60s version (although not campy in terms of dialogue) or maybe more similar to that of TNBA. Oh, and Michael Keaton still sucks as Batman.

Batman Forever: This is my personal favorite. Val Kilmer is easily the best Batman, by far. Everyone says is so light and horrible. I like it. It's somewhere in the middle, which makes it enjoyable. I like Jim Carrey's performance, over the top or not, it was Tommy Lee Jones' that fell flat. He was trying to be crazy, when he should have just been acting like Two-Face, double-sided about everything, and dangerous. I like the way Robin was introduced, that was done well. The costumes and stuff were great as usual, a very enjoyable film.

Batman and Robin: Ugh. Where do I start? The general theme of the movie in terms of its campiness killed it from the start. Batman and Mr. Freeze are generally dark brooding characters- Batman is the protector of the night, Mr. Freeze is a tragic villian. The shouldn't be shooting one liners back and forth. The acting throughout is simply atrocious. Chris O'Donnell is one of the only actors to give a decent performance- so is Michael Gough, who surprisingly shines in the worst movie of the four. Re-writing Batgirl's history KILLED me, it simply drove me crazy. I can see why one might thing Uma Thurman would be a good Poison Ivy- but she was horrible, she just didn't fit the character. And Bane, dear god, what did they do to Bane? They murdered his character into a lumbering muscle-bound oaf! He's one of my favorite villains, and they reduced him to being Ivy' cheufer- I mean, this is the gu who broke Batman folks. Alot of things need to be changed- and whats with all the ghetto costumes- like the silver Batsuits, what is that?

-The Game

cat

03-07-2002, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by thegame8866
When you say "packaging" do you mean like the cardboard snapper cases, or the format of the DVD (i.e. it's special features)?

-The Game

I mean the actual packaging it is in, the box. My project is to package all four movies in a special edition packaging with a bonus disc (footage might include the original batman movie don't yet though) I just wanted to know what fans would like to see done with it.

Tracer

03-07-2002, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by cat

I mean the actual packaging it is in, the box. My project is to package all four movies in a special edition packaging with a bonus disc (footage might include the original batman movie don't yet though) I just wanted to know what fans would like to see done with it.

Burn IT!!

Seriously, The original and third movie’s logo's are the best, maybe one on either side. Package color: still mostly black. With a picture of all the batmen side by side... OK scratch that last suggestion.

Now on to my bashing of the movie :D

The first and third are the best by far. Then number two. The fourth (train wreck) should not be included in the package set. YES that is the best suggestion I could give. Don't Package the fourth movie, completely forget about it. They got nothing right, from start to finish, most fans like to pretend the movie never existed anyway (except in their nightmares). So just package 1,2 & 3.

I still believe (character wise). Keaton was the best Batman. YES, he was all wrong physically and I screamed when I heard they casted him, but of all the movies, I believed he did the character the most justice. The script was actually well done (in the first movie) and I wanted more when the movie ended. I never quite wanted more after any of the other ones and I REALLY wanted less of the fourth one :) Over all, the cast, set, and story all came together well for the first and remains my favorite.

The second was typical Tim Burton insanity. If it wasn't for the fact that Batman is a household name as well as the characters he mutated it might have been a half way decent movie. It just wasn't Batman, though I agree, I did like the look of the sets and scenery.

The third came back home in some respects. Kilmer did a better bruce but was did not pull off a commanding presence or dark personality. Without being camp he managed to lighten the character enough that it was cartoonish (1980's cartoonish). The villains were terrible from the beginning. If the managed to reel Carey in and actually do some acting instead of improv he would have been good. Tommy Lee... He acted well, but the redesign of the character was insulting. He is suppose to be a DA and he was reduced to a henchman of the riddler's He was all muscle and violence to the riddler's brain. I agree again, he came off more like the joker than the riddler. Robin's character was a good addition

I won't bash the fourth movie cause there isn't enough room on this board. I will simply say that NOTHING was done right. NOTHING. Not batgirl, not the change in relationship between batman and robin, not The Villains, not the set, scenery, cars, costumes, NOTHING. Not even Alfred. Gough does an excellent job with alfred ( in acting) but he twice creates a costume for a total stranger and batman is ok with it. This time someone with little to no known fighting or athletic ability, to be put in front of killers and maniacs.

So my suggestions...

1) Get a new project, you got hosed on this one :) JK

2) Only package one, two and Three

3) If you have to package all four, Market them at the price of three, (or even two and half). No one wants the fourth in their collection anyway and will rebel against having to pay for it.

catwoman

03-07-2002, 04:05 PM

I realize that they wanted a big name in batman forever, but harvey was black in the first movie.... that really bugged me

ZorBrak

03-07-2002, 05:46 PM

yeah the switch from Billy Dee Williams to Tommy Lee Jones bugged me too I mean they look NOTHING ALIKE!!!!! I am not sure but isn't harvey interacial anyways? it may never have been adressed....but he looked it to me anyways (in BTAS that is) and switching from black guy to white guy was annoying, I can only accept believable actor switches like Jodie Foester-Julianne Moore as Clarice Starling, becuase in the movies their looks are similar

The Game

03-07-2002, 05:57 PM

Mattashell

03-07-2002, 10:25 PM

I didn't like the cover art for the second film, and in addition to The Game's suggestions for special features, I think the fisrt film should include any product commercials that featured film tie ins, such as Diet Coke.

The first film they kept Burton on a leash for and I thought it was a great film. I really liked the modern-yet 40's esque Gotham. Nicholson surprised me. The whole thing worked out well, except that I agree with The Game's assesment of Keaton.

In Returns Burton was alowed to go wild and the result is, in my opinion, the worst film. That is correct folks worse than B&R. The look is comnpletely new, alright I guess, but it doesn't work for me. (giant rotatin Felix head) The stars are fighting for attention. Chris Walken's character is rediculous. Actually they are all rediculous. Penguin is just about as out of character as he could be. He should be a high society snob. Instead he's a nose biting, dead fish devouring, sewer dwelling freak of nature. The plot is no where to be found. The circus gang makes no sense, and would obviously be more suited to the Joker. The film is full of bad homour, worse than in the Schumacher films. Examples include Catwoman falling into a truckload of kitty litter, Catwoman attempting to eat Penguin's pet bird, Penguin menacing Shrek with shredded-reasembled documents, a severed hand and a spiral umbrella, Penguin's mini Batmobile and Giant Ducky, Batman scratchin' a CD, Catwoman "bathing". Oh yeah, what's up with Shrek's plan to steal Gotham's electricity? :confused: Some people love this film, but I feel this is all under the misconception that Burton can do no wrong. Ah, no.

I like the new look of Gotham in Forever. Riddler was great. Accurate? No, but still very entertaining. Two-Face was a failure but there where a few great moments for him. When he gives bruce 50/50 chance and says something about an old freind he seemed to be showing the apropriate schizoid quality that was missing through most of the film. Robin's story worked pretty good. Cris O'Donnel and Val Kilmer were both adiquate. Nicole Kidman was lost.

Batman and Robin had major problems but also had its good points which I would like to focus on. Gotham looks great! The massive sculptures, and blacklighting are awesome here. The plot, though falted, works well. Freeze is trying to save his wife, obsessive Ivy is trying to seduce Freeze, so she attempts to murder Nora and frame, in Freezes eyes, Batman. This serves a dual purpose, making Freeze her aly and available as a lover. Swartzenegger is great as Freeze and O'Donnel and Clooney are adequate. They could have lightened up on the humour but I didn't mind it. Thurman was pretty terrible. Bane and Batgirl should have been left out entirely. Alfred's story tied in well with Freeze's and it was nice to see him in the spotlight for once. Overall the film suffered too many problem's to wave off, I couldn't call it a good movie, but it had some possitive aspects and, in my opinion, it beats Returns.

Snapper cases stink for any movie. I like the art for Batman and Forever. Returns art sucks and B&R's art isn't great. Right now none of the movies have any special features whatsoever right now and that is lame.

cat

03-09-2002, 01:06 PM

Thanks guys for the response, it's been most helpful. Feel free to keep adding if you wish, will try to log on from time to time. It's been fun.xx

Brother Nature

03-10-2002, 12:01 AM

Freeze is trying to save his wife, obsessive Ivy is trying to seduce Freeze, so she attempts to murder Nora and frame, in Freezes eyes, Batman. This serves a dual purpose, making Freeze her aly and available as a lover.

My question is - where does Poison Ivy's obsession over the floral kingdom fit into all this? If she wants to be Mr. Freeze's lover, and go along with his plans of covering the world in endless winter & turning it into an ice cube...what about her plants? Her desire to cover the world in plants & turn it into a complete floral paradise DIRECTLY conflicts with Mr. Freeze's plot of freezing earth for eternity. She certainly can't have Mr. Freeze PLUS her ideal floral world. Are those mutant plant creatures she created the only kind of "plants" that she'll settle for?
:confused:
Make up your mind Ivy...either you want to play seductress/temptress & have Mr. Freeze to all to yourself(and go along with his plans that thwart yours)...or you gotta to play Mother Nature/Nature's Arm and have plants take over & rule the world. There's no room for both.