The Joker's Flamboyancy

[TimTwoFace]

Or in other words, is he gay? This may be stereotypical to look at someone as flamboyant as the Joker and immediately label (or ponder) them as gay, but this is one question that I've wondered for a while.

And my answer is...no.

However, I do think that his sexual orientation is questionable. Just look at how he interacts with Batman; just as Frank Miller depicted him in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, the Joker is almost in a hopelessly romantic relationship with his arch-nemesis. Why? He's the only person that he'll never have; the Joker loves what he can never achieve. It's his goal, it's his obsession.

I believe that the Joker is neither homosexual nor heterosexual - just asexual, period. He has eyes for no one but Batman. The gender issue isn't really a concern for him. If Batman were a girl from the beginning, the Joker would feel no differently towards him. Batman is his sole obsession. Oh, killing and pillaging on the side is all good fun, but his ultimate goal is to get under Batman's skin. He only has eyes for guano-man.

In my "No Man's Island" story I did in the newsletter last year, I had quite a lot of fun writing the Joker in this way; I personally think it fits the character like a glove. He is neither homosexual nor heterosexual. Due to his obsession with pointy-ears, I'd label him as "Bat-sexual".

-Tim

(Yeah..."Bat-sexual"...the last thing the world needed was yet another word with a Bat-prefix. Damn, I just did it again...)

[Terminatah]

I'd like to think that Harley was too perfect not to be the only one for him. They shared the same twisted perspective of the world. Their relationship was a timeless formula of painful romance (Harlequinade, Mad Love) and I always loved seeing them function as a family unit (Return of the Joker).

-Terminatah

[Calhoun07]

Does this mean Charles Nelson Reily should play the Joker in a movie?

[Domino]

Originally posted by Calhoun07
Does this mean Charles Nelson Reily should play the Joker in a movie?

Nah, he's 71 years old. How about Sean Hayes, the guy who plays Jack on Will & Grace? He's only 31.

[BLACKHEART]

The Joker's not gay. The Joker doesn't even have a sexual preference.

With that said he has no feelings of lust or want for Harley Quinn in that way. The closet thing to a bond or relationship he has is with Batman. Does Joker want to have sex with Batman? I don't think so. Sex isn't something that motivates the Joker nor is it something he cares about.

People have often said the Joker is gay. There was his line about being very familiar to prison culture. There's always been this talk because he is flamboyant. He's flamboyant because he likes to entertain.

You do remember the Joker had a wife before he became the Joker? People just don't go to sleep and wake up gay the next day.

Does Joker sleep with Harley Quinn? No chance. Harley is his hench girl and if we are talking about the real Joker, comic Joker, then he wants her dead so that's not even an option. Even cartoon Joker who she was created to make look less "gay" doesn't care about her. The only person he cares about in a nongay-sexual way is Batman.

People can go on for day's and say Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy are bi or whatever, but there's not even one incident of the Joker taking part in a homosexual activity.

[DR. BELCH]

SLIPKNOT:
You do remember the Joker had a wife before he became the Joker? People just don't go to sleep and wake up gay the next day.
When was Joker married? The continuities are like desert sands, always shifting. I grew up knowing The Joker used to be a minor thug called Red Hood. Then came the Batman movie that revealed his name was Jack Napier.
He's straight, I'd say...but definitely has antisocial personality disorder. He's more Charles Manson than Charles Nelson Reilly--the former also rather loud, flamboyant, and who thought of himself as an prophet and entertainer in his own right...even though the sermons were murder and his jokes were deadly.
I do think Joker has taken Harley Quinn to bed, but she made a lot more of it than he did. He probably was in the shower not ten minutes later, her forgotten, plotting new ways to crush the Bat. People with that disorder don't feel true love. Sort of a psychotic workaholic, is Joker....

[Karkull]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
...there's not even one incident of the Joker taking part in a homosexual activity.

He did grab Batman's ass in Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum. He also cross-dressed and made some lewd comments about Robin.

I don't think that he's gay, but many writers use this tactic to get across that, whether they like it or not, Joker and Batman are in a close, intimate relationship. Just not a sexual one.

[TimTwoFace]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH

When was Joker married? The continuities are like desert sands, always shifting. I grew up knowing The Joker used to be a minor thug called Red Hood. Then came the Batman movie that revealed his name was Jack Napier.


In THE KILLING JOKE (the best Joker story out there) we see that prior to taking his infamous chemical bath, he was married to a girl named Jeannie (I believe). They were having financial troubles, and that's why he was willing to hit the chemical plant to begin with.

AS for the Joker being gay - I never said he was - but the closest thing he has to any sexuality whatsoever is his obsession with Batman. I wonder what Bats thinks about that.

"I don't want to think about it."
-Batman, LOVE IS A CROC

-Tim

[BLACKHEART]

Twoface handled the marrage question, that's why and how he became the Joker. He needed money and he turned to crime. Why? To support his wife.

I'll give you advice he didn't. Don't take anything from the movie as fact in relation to Batman Mytho's. The movies are crap.

Yeah the Joker grabbed his butt, but that wasn't because he likes his butt. It's a mind game. The Joker is all about playing mind games. If you like wrestling, you probably know what Goldust is and it's the same thing. Using homosexuality to throw your opponent off. It will throw him off, cause him to make mistakes and you can steal the victory. The Joker likes to be in people's heads. That's all it was.

[Clayface]

Hmm, this is a pretty interesting question, actually! Its one I can't say I've ever thought of before.

I guess I lean towards the "asexual" idea. He's just too dang crazy for that to ever really be a concern for him. And if it was somethign that came up, I'm nto really sure which way he'd go - maybe both ways!

Its really hard to say, but now that this has been brought up, I'm rather surprised that his sexuality hasn't been a topic in some of the comics at one point or another.

True, in The Killing Joke, we see that he was married - maybe. The thing with the Killing Joke is, we don't know what's true and what isn't. We don't know what's being made up by the Joker when he tells his past, and what's real. (This idea was also brought up in the Animated universe in the past as well - he told lies to Harley about his past.) And, even if he was married before, who's to say that he wasn't bi? Or a closet homosexual that just hadn't come to terms with his sexuality yet? Its certainly possible that he could be gay.

And the animated universe hasn't really been any clearer, from what I remember. Yes, he's got the hot little Harley after him all the time, but he's either oblivious to her advances, or plainly not interested.

Hmmm, I'm really going to have to think about this one some more. But for now, I'd have to say the "too crazy to even worry about sex" idea works best for me.

[The Game]

First of all, guys, he's not asexual, 'cause that means he can reproduce by himself. ;)

It's possible. I don't think he really has a sexual preference either- I think he is able to enjoy a good sexual relationship with Harley Quinn, but it's more of an outfit for him to... Well, please himself then it is for him to really enjoy being with her, after all, we pretty much know he doesn't care about her too much anyway.

I think his interactions with Batman are a little strange- he wants to please Batman- and he thinks their little escapades do the trick, you know, like Batman enjoys them deep-down. I think this is more just the fact that Joker is crazy, but it's definitley a possibilty.

-The Game

[Domino]

I think that to have a rational discussion about this entire topic, one would have to first of all clarify which version of the Joker we are to debate. There are glaring differences.

[TimTwoFace]

Originally posted by Domino
I think that to have a rational discussion about this entire topic, one would have to first of all clarify which version of the Joker we are to debate. There are glaring differences.

Good point. This could definately be said about the mainstream comic-book version and the animated version; both are absolutely obsessed with Batman.

The same could probably be argued for Jack Nicholson's portrayal, too.

And as for the 60's series...

-Tim

[Clayface]

Originally posted by thegame8866
First of all, guys, he's not asexual, 'cause that means he can reproduce by himself. ;)


Ok time for our word for the day, right from the dictionary:

a·sex·u·al Pronunciation Key
adj.
1) Having no evident sex or sex organs; sexless.
2) Relating to, produced by, or involving reproduction that occurs
without the union of male and female gametes, as in binary
fission or budding.
3) Lacking interest in or desire for sex.

;)

[DR. BELCH]

--some use "asexual" and "hermaphroditic" interchangeably, I've noted.

But really, you can take evidence from the show to say anything you want about Joker. One person can say he's a homosexual just as easily as I could say he has, oh, gingivitis and suffers from explosive diarrhea, if we can cite/manipulate enough "proof". :rolleyes:

[BLACKHEART]

Then I'll answer that like this

Comic: No
Animated: No
Movie: No
Tv show: Maybe hahaha j/k

[Mattashell]

The 60's Joker was pretty gay. funny since Ceasar Romero was known as a macho woman chaser. But now that I think about it there were an awful lot of undertones throughout that show.

[CadaverousEyes]

There's a lovely LotDK story called "Going Sane" where Joker thinks he's killed Batman, so he destroys all his hideouts, hires a plastic surgeon to get his skin tone back, and falls in love and gets engaged (to a woman). Naturally Batman has to turn out to be alive so he loses another normal life. So no, I don't think he's gay, but when chasing after Batman, his libido is nonexistant.

As for the animated Joker, in BB:RotJ he was ready to settle down with Harley. But I still think he's asexual.

[The Game]

Originally posted by Clayface


Ok time for our word for the day, right from the dictionary:

a·sex·u·al Pronunciation Key
adj.
1) Having no evident sex or sex organs; sexless.
2) Relating to, produced by, or involving reproduction that occurs
without the union of male and female gametes, as in binary
fission or budding.
3) Lacking interest in or desire for sex.

;)


Ah! :eek: I stand corrected.

I guess I pretty much agree with everyone else- he's not really gay or straight, I think he just focuses his sexual drive towards his ultimate goal, of killing Batman.

-The Game

[BLACKHEART]

Yeah that's why I tossed that out. The relationship between Batman and Robin of that show has always been looked at closely for the undertones. That's a whole other story.

[Mattashell]

That was one thing that crossed my mind, but also the Extreme flamboyance of all the villains on that show, Penguin, Egghead, Riddler, King Tut...

[BLACKHEART]

I think Riddler was by far the worse. No one ever questions his sexuality. Or do they? He always had women around him.

[X-human]

Well, every time someone pens The Joker, he's different. I don't think you could ever really pin down anything definate about any fictional character.

Plus, I've never heard of a guy marrying a girl or even just dating girls to prevent him from being gay. Infact, before a guy figures out he's gay he'll most likly date women.

[Calico]

Isn't it possible that the accident that changed his appearance could have also neutered him? Perhaps, like it has been mentioned before, he has no sexual preference because that part of him doesn't work anymore.

[James Harvey]

I think that he doesn't really care. He's a twist man who's world is upside down inside out, and demented as could possibly be. He doesn't perceive things staright - and this is likely one of those things he doesn't perceive on the same evel that we do. This guy's a certified nutjob, s I doubt he handles anything like we do.

Although in the Batman: Harley Quinn mainstream one shot, it was implied that he and Harley spent a night togethor...but then he tried to kill her...which just about sounds on par for what he'd do.

[peterparker05]

I think the Joker's made "ha-ha" with Harley Quinn as it was guessed in World's Finest. But I don't think he did it because he really likes her, it was just all a fun game to him.