Beast Wars to Beast Machines

[The Dark Knight]

I was a big fan of Beast Wars when it was on, so it would come as no surprise that when I first heard of Beast Machines I was excited. I was really excited. But then came the actual show...

I'm starting this thread to get a simple answer to my question:
What happened?!?

How could a show be continued in such a bad way? Let's start off with a few of my complaints.

1. The whole "learn to transform" thing. Was it just lack of plot ideas or did they actually think it was a good idea? It had no point.

2. I read an interview once with one of the guys in charge saying how he didn't like guns so he made the fights more martial arts type fighting. The fact that the gunfights in Beast Wars were awesome somehow evaded this man’s grasp. If I wanted to see hand-to-hand fights, I'd watch a different show. They're robots, not ninjas!

3. The complete butchering of the characters. Was I watching the same show as these people? Didn't Rat Trap used to be the second in command with experience and knowledge? Wasn't he a good soldier? Wasn't Cheetor the rookie type who wasn't as experienced as the others? When did all this change? They completely switched the roles!

4. Bringing the show over to Cybertron may have seemed like a good idea, but it was so badly executed. The show was way too dark. And please explain to me the point of making them "beasts" if it doesn't fit the environment. At least it made sense in Beast Wars. It worked because of the terrain that surrounded them. There was so much left that could have been done there that there was no point to moving them to Cybertron yet.

If I have made any errors please inform me as I haven't seen either show in quite some time.

So, could someone please help me out and tell me what happened?

[ButteredToast]

I don't know... I really enjoyed Beast Machines... Beast Wars seemed a bit comical to me, and BM was dark, edgy, and more serious. I very much enjoyed it.

The reason they had to learn to transform was because it wasn't an inherent ability in their cyber-organic bodies. Plus, their transforming function was totally fritzed by the virus that Megatron released on Cybertron.

Also, the reason they retained beast forms in Cybertron was that there was actually organic life on Cybertron a long time ago. After all, that's how Nightscream got his form, when his built-in DNA scanner picked up on the fossilized remains of a giant bat-like creature.

[Sir Gatts]

If if thought those were bad, the ending takes the cake.
If I can remember../
Both Megatron and Prime dies, (don't remember how) results in seeding Cybertron with plants, blue sky, Sun, with the Beast team running into the sunrise... THE END.

[BLACKHEART]

I can tell you what went wrong and his name is Bob Skir

Bob Skir was never a fan of the Transformers
He never watched the cartoon's G1 or BW
He was against guns and he was a fan of the ninja turtles

Computers don't forget how to Transform Bob Skir... Wait I've been there before on his message board.

To answer queston 3

Bob Skir likes cats better than he does apes, serisously that was the reason he pushed Cheetor over Optimus Primal. He wanted to use the younger Cheetor to "relate" to younger fans. Again you said, they are robots.

4 Forget Unicron, Bob Skir is the Transformer's devil. You have the idea of Transformers and to an extent that's why there were Vehicons. Bob Skir wanted to use this cartoon as his soap box. He wanted gun control. He is a tree-hugger. So he took his values and beliefs and he shoved them down our throats. That's why it had to be nature vs. machine for the reasons that they were.

You forget to mention they had a plant that transformed. A plant. What kind of defense is a plant? We are talking about robots not Poison Ivy.

Beast Machines I felt killed Transformers. If you went to Transformer boards, this guy was getting pounded. He did a total 360 when the show was over and blamed Fox or Mainframe or his mom. I forget, it really depends on the day of the week.

I was happy when RID was imported from Japan. I hope this Armada toyline becomes a cartoon. It includes the real Megatron, Starscream, Laserbeak, Optimus Prime and so on.

[BLACKHEART]

One other thing. Have you voted in the poll this week for the sketch? Megatron could use some support.

[Clayface]

Basically, SLIPKNOT summed it up. Bob Skir happened. The guys that wrote Beast Machines were unceremoniously sent on their ways, and Hasbro brought in Bob Skir to be in charge of Beast Machines. And you saw the result.

[Naraht]

gotta say, Beast Wars didn't do much for me @ 1st...but it grew on me. I miss Beast Wars...BM stunk

[BLACKHEART]

Beast Wars really didn't good till the second season in the battle for the Ark. The first season had some good episodes. The second and third had meaning and purpose. Plus it was great to see the G1's.

Did I mention Bob Skir created Nightscream? The annoying bat character that nobody liked. Yeah the one with the Razor Ramon hair. He also created the plant.

Who wants jet or tank when you can have a plant transformer?

[Clayface]

Actually, I liked the idea of a plant transformer. Yeah, it would make a lousy toy, but it definitely fit with the original ideas of Transformers - i mean, the point of them having an alternate mode was to fit in with the dominant life form on the planet. So, if they ended up on a planet that had predominantly plant-based life, they'd take on a plant-based appearance.

[The Dark Knight]

I can't really comment on the plant since I never saw it, but I hated Nightscream. And those three vehicle transformers didn't do anything for me either. Could they possibly compare to Waspinator or Inferno? Or basically any character from Beast Wars? Maybe we can pretend Beast Machines never happened. By the way, if anyone sees Bob Skir on the street please give him a swift kick in the genitals for me.

[BLACKHEART]

Bob Skir got many threats. As a result he didn't show up at Botcon.

Inferno was my favorite. He was totally insane. I loved it. I liked Dinobot till Inferno. His death served great purpose as well. Waspinator was good for a laugh.

The vehicons were alright. It was stupid they had drones. It was stupid that Megatron controled everything. The entire show was just stupid.

[Nightflower]

The entire concept for Beast Machines was just against everything set down by Transformers.... biological robots and such. If it weren't for the mindless drone thing, I would have really been rooting for Megatron.

The plant bot had a terrible character design. She transformed from one non-existent plant-like creature to.... another non-existent plant-like creature!

The show itself wasn't that great either. The maximals spent too much time running and losing. I mean, it's great to have conflict and have good guys and struggling against the odds... but throw them a frickin' bone sometimes!

And yes. Beast Wars is awesome. So many great characters. Waspinator, Inferno, Blackarachnia, etc, all had sexy personalities. And Silverbolt was actually kinda cute. HUSH!

But I have to admit, the animation for BM was pretty sweet.

[Terminatah]

I loved Dinobot. Especially when he argued with Rat Trap and threatened to kill him. Waspinator was hilarious too. And I loved their little catch phrases, like Rat Trap with his "We're all gonna die," and Optimus with his "Well, that's just prime."

-Terminatah

[BLACKHEART]

Beast Wars had action, humor, and characters. Something Beast Machines lacked. The only realy conflict with Beast Machines was, do I watch it or not?

[The Dark Knight]

I may have watched it, but the one thing I could not stand was how Rattrap, my favorite character, was depicted. I could only watch it for so long before I got sick of him being so useless.

[BLACKHEART]

Why didn't he have feet?

[Exatron]

I hate to say it, but I think it's unfair to place the blame solely on Bob Skir. Hasbro and Fox had a lot to do with flaws in Beast Machines. Fox has rather restrictive content guidelines that resulted in the energy weapons and hordes of mindless drones, causing Hasbro to adopt the whole spiritual transformations and organic Cybertron bits. Hasbro rushed the series into production and selected a writing team based on ignorance of other Tranformers series. Most of the characters reverted to the way they were depicted in the Beast Wars Story bible and conceptual designs. Skir was responsible for atrocities like the first three generals containing the sparks of characters from Beast Wars, the poorly balanced and explained technology versus organics story arc, Nightscream, and showing Megatron's conquest of Cybertron in a brief flashback. I think the only thing he did right was to create a Maximal with a plant-based altmode.

[ButteredToast]

Hmm... am I the only one on this board that actually enjoyed Beast Machines? :(

[Joe Wagner]

Nope, I thought Beast Machines was very enjoyable and the whole Black Arachnia story line was kind of cool. Truthfully I thought the show was put together very well and was just a natural progression to Beast Wars. I just wish Fox would have given it a better time slot - it just couldn't compete with Poke-mania and the eventually scourge of Digimon (grumble, grumble - the killer of many good shows - grumble, grumble).

-Joe!

[Clayface]

Originally posted by jjwspider
Nope, I thought Beast Machines was very enjoyable and the whole Black Arachnia story line was kind of cool.



Wait, wait, wait. Black Arachnia had a storyline in Beast Machines? Hmmmm, musta missed that episode. :rolleyes:

Did any of the characters have a storyline in that show? It was just a lot of shots of Maximals running from Vehicons, and then stopping to spout personal philosophies just long enough for the Vehicons to catch up with them and start chasing them again.




Truthfully I thought the show was put together very well and was just a natural progression to Beast Wars.



Natural progression? The end of the Beast Wars has the Maximals defeating Megatron and returning to Cybertron. Suddenly in Beast Machines all of our heros have changed personalities, become physically and mentally weak, and Megatron has somehow, inexplicably, taken over the entire world?
How exactly is this a natural progression from Beast Wars?

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by Clayface



Wait, wait, wait. Black Arachnia had a storyline in Beast Machines? Hmmmm, musta missed that episode. :rolleyes:

Did any of the characters have a storyline in that show? It was just a lot of shots of Maximals running from Vehicons, and then stopping to spout personal philosophies just long enough for the Vehicons to catch up with them and start chasing them again.


Actually there were a lot of storylines involved with the show - between the Maximals all having to learn how to transform, the struggle of leadership between Primal and Cheetor, the revelation of genetic material on Cybertron and, of course, the fight against Megatron.


Originally posted by Clayface



Natural progression? The end of the Beast Wars has the Maximals defeating Megatron and returning to Cybertron. Suddenly in Beast Machines all of our heros have changed personalities, become physically and mentally weak, and Megatron has somehow, inexplicably, taken over the entire world?
How exactly is this a natural progression from Beast Wars?


Yes, IMO, a natural progression. This series picks up while they are returning to Cybertron. If you expect Megatron to roll over and die then no this isn't a progression but you know from the events of Beast Wars Megatron was always planning, staying one step ahead of the Maximals. Whenever they finally awake they find out that they were attacked and the environment was killing them. If the environment was killing them there was no way the citizens of Cybertron would have stood a chance as it attacked the robotics within them if I remember correctly and only Megatron had the cure to prevent this. This would also explain so of the character changes - Primal doesn't feel as confident any more and would have a change in personality becuz he feels he lost, Cheetor sees it and worries that they'll all be dead if they continue to follow him, Black Arachnia is saddened by the loss of her one true love and Rat Trap has lost the confidence he once had. All together I thought the series was pretty good (not as good as Beast Wars) and I enjoyed it.

-Joe

[Naraht]

Bah! BM was junk..sure it was eay on the eyes at times...so long as Rattrap stayed in Beast Mode, his Robot mode was UGLY! And he had no weapons..what's up with that? Rattrap always had a weapon @ hand..=\

the eventually scourge of Digimon (grumble, grumble - the killer of many good shows - grumble, grumble).

You say that like Digimon is a bad show...it's quite good, and if you can catch it from the start, and stick with it, you'll dicover it has an epic plot, good writing, and is quite enjoyable..

[Jowy Blight]

I hated BM, I felt it was just a bunch of running around without going anywhere. I really tried to get into it, but it was done so poorly when Beast Wars was done so well, I couldn't. Nothing they did could match up to any of the episodes of Beast Wars in my opinion. I loved watching the characters grow from the begining of Beast Wars to the end of it (especially Dinobot). In BM, I could really care less, since everyones attitudes had changed. The thing that got to me the most was the fact that Rattrap was so useless, he had no weapons at all.

My god, this series could of been so much more.

[Supernovametalstar]

Besides that, they even tried to hype Beast Machines during the premiere of Digimon. Of course, at the time, most people just dismissed Digimon as a total Pokemon clone, so that may not have helped much.

I will admit that BM had its faults. But it also had some good points. But the bad outweighs the good IMO. At most, the show was enjoyable for maybe two runs, and Fox didn't even give us the 2nd season a complete repeat.

Oh, and about Bob Skir and the guns issue. That was his idea, he said so on his FAQ page when the show was going on that he didn't like his heroes to have weapons. I don't see Fox as the enemy in this regard because at the time, Power Rangers had guns in that show (even a real one in a real situation). Of course, that cannot excuse the hack and slash they did with Beast Wars, but I blame Columbine for that one.

[BLACKHEART]

Spider you have to realize there were a lot smarter Transformers on Cybertron. A lot smarter than Megatron. If you go by the old show and who was still alive... The official time-line had Optimus Prime still alive during Beast Wars. He was retired. As I was saying... There were smarter Transformers on Cybertron who would have detected the virus that Megatron created and stopped it.

Perceptor was alive at this time. He is one of the one's credited with createing the smaller Transformers and the animal conversions. Prime was in on this, but never got converted.

The Beast Machines cartoon took history and tossed it into the trash. Skir wanted a show to use as his soap box and that's all it ever became. The only reason there were G1 references in season 2 was because of the growing number of fans making threats to him.

Unlike the guy's that did Beast Wars, Beast Machines was totally in the hands of idiots.

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
Spider you have to realize there were a lot smarter Transformers on Cybertron. A lot smarter than Megatron. If you go by the old show and who was still alive... The official time-line had Optimus Prime still alive during Beast Wars. He was retired. As I was saying... There were smarter Transformers on Cybertron who would have detected the virus that Megatron created and stopped it.



Granted I'm sure there were a lot smarter Transformers on Cybertron but at the same time if you're only given a small amount of time to solve a problem with little idea where to start the odds are very slim that they'd be able to find a solution before their bodies failed them.


Originally posted by naraht
You say that like Digimon is a bad show...it's quite good, and if you can catch it from the start, and stick with it, you'll dicover it has an epic plot, good writing, and is quite enjoyable..

Sorry, I can't stand this show. I never thought the stories were that good and the battle scenes seemed like if one of them were getting beat it was time to 'digi-volve' into another creature (usually for no apparent reason, IMO). Couple that with the fact that Digimon lead to the eventual downfall of so many shows with amazing potential (The Magician, Spider-Man Unlimited, Silver Surfer, Xyber 9 and to a lesser extent Beast Machines and Avengers, which looked to finally be getting better) and you can see why I don't like this show. Once again, just my two cents.

-Joe