Naraht's Star Trek Poll

[Naraht]

well, it's TV, it's Movies, it's one of the most successful TV to Print series...it's Star Trek....

And here's a thread to talk about one of the most successful Sci-Fi franchises of all time! =D

[Bird Boy]

The Next Generation..no doubt...the ship was cool, the characters rocked..it was just THE BEST Trek ever....

plus, it has First Contact under it's Movie belt...my fave Trek movie ever.. :)

-BB

[Joe Wagner]

Next Generation - bar none! This was the show that got my into the lore that is Star Trek. It was also the show that had the coolest security guard ever, Worf, and the coolest villains in any Star Trek - mainly the Borg.

-Joe!

[Calico]

Three words: Jean-Luc Picard. He was the best captain. TNG also had a great supporting cast, writing, & effects. The rest all pale comparison.

[Naraht]

Alright...here's my little anti-tng rant...cause most people don't rant about tng the way ppl rant about TOS, DS9, VOY....this isn't to belittle everyone's opinions, but it's how I feel.

tng was too everybody is friends...All of the Trek's have had this, but tng was the biggest offender in this area...there was hardly any characterization...Geordi was the blind guy, worf was the Klingon, Troi was the eye candy, Crusher was Picard's love intrest, Riker was the Kirk clone, Data was the Spock clone, and Wesly was erm, PG Board...damn.

The ship to me..was Ugly. It was areo dynamic....Which is odd...cause it was incapable of Atmospheric Flight. The Front looked Smooshed...the middle looked stepped on...I LOVED the angular/symetrical look of the Classic Enterprise (The movie version from when they had a budget was the best IMO)

TOS had it's fair share of problems...but it was a diffrent show for a diffrent time. Judging it by Today's standards is grossly unfair.


Righ now, Enterprise is really growing on me. The crew has some great interaction, there's a feeling of actual exploration...and so far they haven't seriously stepped on my continuity toes yet...=O

[Calhoun07]

I will never understand why this series isn't more well liked (aside from the Babylon 5 comparisons, but I mean the series on it's own). This is by far the series I love the most, and the one I want on DVD the most. While there was a weak episode every now and then, there is not one episode in that entire run I would not watch more than once. I seriously cannot say the same for any of the other Trek series. Especially some of those hideous episodes from TNG's seventh season.

[Borg4of3]

I think that TNG best represented the Star Trek universe and its overall themes the best. Diplomacy wasn't a boring thing, and the utopian universe made sense. IMO, this is the best representation of Roddenberry's not-too-but-getting-there-utopian future.

Still, I voted for DS9! While it had some so-so to crappy stories at times, the real good ones had powerful focuses on great stuff like religion, slavery, genetic alterations, greed, and of course war. The arcs were just powerful stuff, filled not only with epic stages, but continued to be very character driven as well. And the characters were top notch as well, with the most personality, past, and reality than the more idealist characters in other STs. Probably the best and most shocking example of that is Section 31, the dark side of the usually pure, pristine and perfect Federation. It was just simply more epic and realistic, and just so powerfully executed that it deserves to really rock on this poll.

[The Penguin]

With everyone voting for TNG, I decided to go with Voyager. I also really like TNG but I picked it up at like the start of the fifth or sixth season. I hope to watch some on TNN when I have time. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I camped out in front of my TV when "Caretaker" premiered in 1995. Since I started with the show I felt like it was my own instead of just tuning in to a show that was already a big hit.
I really liked the cast. A lot of people I talk to are sour on the woman captain, but I liked Captain Janeway. She has a strong independance about her and having a female captain was something new and different. I also really liked The Doctor. What's not to love about a hologram learning about the world around him? Harry Kim was another of my favs, something about his greenness just made him appealing. But I liked all of them. The premise of people who started as enemies working together as a team in order to get home really moved me at times.

My UPN affliate still airs the show every weeknight, so I'm trying to catch the ones that I missed when it first moved over to UPN (we didn't get it right away). I'm evening leaving my tape of the finale untouched because I think it would be too anti-climatic if I find out how the series ends before I see almost all of them.

[Borg4of3]

Originally posted by The Penguin
My UPN affliate still airs the show every weeknight, so I'm trying to catch the ones that I missed when it first moved over to UPN (we didn't get it right away). I'm evening leaving my tape of the finale untouched because I think it would be too anti-climatic if I find out how the series ends before I see almost all of them.

Wow! Now THAT is devotion to the experience! :eek: It'll be well worth the wait - I thought the ending was one of the best eps of the series!

Note to all: Spoiler-Call on Voyager's Season Finale!

[Naraht]

WOW! I've never met anyone who LIKED the finale to Voyager...

Now I've seen it all.

Well, while we're comparing notes.....how many people here read the novels besides me? And if so, which book, or books are your favorites?

Mine have to be the TOS Novels by Diane Duane! (ie where Naraht comes from)

[The Penguin]

I love reading the books from TNG and Voyager. I usually only read them in the summer because otherwise I don't have time. I usually like them, but one that I always like for some reason is ST:TNG "Grounded" I think it's like #25 or something. And Michael Jan Friedman always seems to do a good job.


And thanks 4of3, I appreciate the consideration. :) One time a guy was about to wreck it for me and I cut him off.

[Jedigreedo]

Well, Voyager was my favorite series there for awhile, then I morphed into one of the nitpicky people and mostly TNG/DS9 are my favorite series because you can tell that during DS9 Berman wanted to change Trek and then got his chance to change it more in Voyager but still keeping in Gene's Star Trek but with Enterprise Berman created his own Trek universe basically with a whole bunch of gimmicks and easy ratings.

For anyone wondering about the aerodynamics of ships, the aerodynamics helps the warp field stabilize more. :cool:

So overall I voted for TNG, DS9 was a very good continuation of it but they went a little overboard with Voyager, also I like Voyager very much and even though I'm nitpicky, I just watch Voyager to watch it and nitpick later, and btw, my non-nitpicky side did like the end of Voyager, it wasn't perfect, but it was pretty cool. :D

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by naraht
Well, while we're comparing notes.....how many people here read the novels besides me? And if so, which book, or books are your favorites?

Everything by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. They're excellent writers. All their books have an epic quality to them and are large in scope. Federation, the Millenium trilogy, the Shatner books...they're all great.

Favorite series: DS9. Very ambitious and high quality writing.

[Calhoun07]

The only Star Trek books I have really enjoyed completely are the Peter David novels. He really has a feel for the characters and the history of Star Trek and knows where to go with them. I'd love to see some of his stories on the screen.

[Naraht]

Originally posted by Calhoun07
The only Star Trek books I have really enjoyed completely are the Peter David novels. He really has a feel for the characters and the history of Star Trek and knows where to go with them. I'd love to see some of his stories on the screen.

I like his stuph too...you should really try some of Diane's novels (she has a couple TNG....Dark Mirror is self contained....Intelevore is a psudeo-sequel to Romulan Way) She is in my opinion the ultimate character writer...between "real" characters & her own, you truely get a fealing of family on the enterprise...which ever one you prefer...

[I.R Joey]

Voyager spoilers....




Are you kidding me how could you have liked the Finale of Voyager? The way they just beat down the Borg was a complete falaicy in the continuity department. I mean they where just blowing them up like nothing, and these where cubes we're talkign about (as I recall the enterprise had to toss everything at that cube to blow it up) and don't give me that stuff about how they just developed tech to beat the borg, the borg had probably assimilated technoloigy decades or even centuries beyond the federation, no 2 or 3 decades could bridge that gap.

Anyway I think TNG was the best, the charecters just seemed to come to life more. I mean some of the great dialouge like between Guinnan and Riker at this table when they're trying to show Welsyi how to get a girls attention. Beautiful.

Or Captain Picard always saying "Engage."

[Jedigreedo]

Well, no one said they were actually "borg-beating torpedos" but they're more advanced then the BORG which the BORG took more longer to adapt to, just like in the other BORG stuff when they would switch to frequencies which the BORG hadn't adapted to yet, same thing with this except since it was from the future, the BORG couldn't adapt to them as quickly.

I was informed I should spoiler tag this info, so just highlight as usual.

[RogueMartian]

Originally posted by Calhoun07
The only Star Trek books I have really enjoyed completely are the Peter David novels. He really has a feel for the characters and the history of Star Trek and knows where to go with them. I'd love to see some of his stories on the screen.

He is the ONLY star trek author I really respect.
"I, Q" and "Q in law" were so funny, I've read the ending scene in Q in law about a hundred times. Q squared is pretty decent too (guess who my favorite villain is), The two Imzadi novels are okay too, not my favorites though.

Diane Duane's are okay too, but I don't like them nearly as much.

Of course I chose Next Gen as my favorite, it got me into star trek, it had the best stories and characters (although admittedly it was annoying how buddy buddy the characters were, but this was a lot worse in Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise). The original trek is okay, I like the movies a lot more than the series itself.

[James]

TOS. No doubt and it's transistion to the movie screen.

Why? Because in my eyes it has never been bettered. It wasn't as pompous as Roddenbery's later affairs. The music was exciting and well scored. How many ST:TNG themes can you recall? Very few, if nothing but the title theme. ST:TOS? How about the infamous joust theme first used in Amok Time? The Doomesday Machine roaring brass. Priceless.

It had characters. Well, three to be accurate, but thats why it worked.

Star Treks big mistake at the moment seems to be wrought from the problems they had with the grumbling original cast. They wanted more screen time and stories that centered around more than the three main, well fleshed characters. Newsflash - you make a good secondary Mr Sulu, but an episode based on you would frankly be VERY dull.
When the new generation of shows appeared they seem to have taken this cast grievences and began doing episodes on all characters. Bad move. Very few people want to see an episode about Neelix/Wolf/Geordi/Dax/Jake etc. They do however enjoy the main characters (Data/Picard/Sisko/Bashir/Janeway/Tuvok/Doctor/7 Of 9/Riker etc.). Filling your seasons with dull stories about minor characters seems suicidal.
The original ST had three main characters, each uniquely vital to the triangle. Kirk pretty much has an Angel and Devil on each shoulder (Bones and Spock). They juxtapostion of the three made their stories interesting and THANKFULLY these weren't distracted by unnecessary side characters. When you sat to watch TOS, you knew what you would get. Kirk, Spock McCoy and not the fear of Dax/Frengi/Wolf dominating an episode.

The OS had no technobabble and thus relied on science fiction concepts and human soloutions. Energy not encountered before is far more interesting and exciting to a tacyon barrier or the likes..

They were the first to weave the fragility of age into their stories. The first to steal a ship from Starfleet, the first to destroy their careers for their comrades. All in all for more emotionally driven storylines.

I'll happily watch any of the incarnations however ST:TOS has something which always absorbs me - and before someone begins to grumble out the sexism or political problems with the series - remember, it is a part of it's period, you can't condemn it for that.

Remember it was the first and had no role model. The others did.

[James]

Peter David's The Rift is very good. Not perfect characterisation, but some damn fine stuff.

'Shatner's' novels are amusing. gripping, but the way all the others bow to his skill - it's almost as if he Ace Rimmer. You can see Picard just breathing 'What A Guy...' as Shatner woddles past!

I used to love Vonda McIntyre's film novels - they were brilliant, especially III and IV..!

[Naraht]

Hehe..so far, the only show with NO votes is the Animated Star Trek series...and here we are on an ANIMATION Website...=O

[Calhoun07]

That's because the animated series wasn't that good.

[James]

Originally posted by Calhoun07
That's because the animated series wasn't that good.

I liked it - okay, the animation wasn't that good, but I thought the stories remained faithful and intelligent when it would have been so easy for the studio to dumb it down. I believe the cast were largely responsible for keeping it respectable.

If I hadn't had to vote for the OST, this would have become third place for me, just behind TNG.

[Defiant1DS9]

The NExt Gen all the way, i love the cast, the ship and the entire series. To the person who said the ship couldn't fly in the atmosphere. The Saucer section did in Star trek 7. Plus the stardrive section wasnt designed for Atmospheric flight. On the other hand, Voyager was designed for atmospheric flight, despite my thoughts the ship would break in half and kill half the crew on board due to weight being shifted at the saucer. Those Structural Integrity Fields work well

TNG has contributed to the revival of Trek. It introduced Data an android who wants to be human, It brought us the Borg, the most terrifying enemy known to trek.

[Jedigreedo]

Originally posted by Defiant1DS9
To the person who said the ship couldn't fly in the atmosphere. The Saucer section did in Star trek 7.

Actually it crashed, most likely it did fly a little with gliding due to the aerodynamics of it's design, but it was just crash landing.

Originally ships were actually be atomspheric flight ships that would land and take off, but due to the size of the budget they couldn't do landing/taking off scenes and came up with the transporter which is why we later got the shuttlecrafts to do the atmoshpheric flying. :)

[James]

So do you Next Generation lovers prefer Enterprise - D, or E?

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by Defiant1DS9
The NExt Gen all the way, i love the cast, the ship and the entire series. To the person who said the ship couldn't fly in the atmosphere. The Saucer section did in Star trek 7. Plus the stardrive section wasnt designed for Atmospheric flight. On the other hand, Voyager was designed for atmospheric flight, despite my thoughts the ship would break in half and kill half the crew on board due to weight being shifted at the saucer. Those Structural Integrity Fields work well

TNG has contributed to the revival of Trek. It introduced Data an android who wants to be human, It brought us the Borg, the most terrifying enemy known to trek.

Yup. And then Voyager killed it by overusing the queen and blowing up cubes left and right. :P Although they did manage to introduce a "borg-as-hotties" angle that wasn't previously there. ;)

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by SJJ
So do you Next Generation lovers prefer Enterprise - D, or E?

D for me!

[Jedigreedo]

Originally posted by Nightflower
Yup. And then Voyager killed it by overusing the queen and blowing up cubes left and right. :P Although they did manage to introduce a "borg-as-hotties" angle that wasn't previously there. ;)

Well yeah, they did blow up a few too many cubes... And I would like to know where they got all the Queens from, that wasn't really ever explained was it?

On the which Enterprise is prefered, D for me too. :cool:

[The Penguin]

Originally posted by SJJ
So do you Next Generation lovers prefer Enterprise - D, or E?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

*Thinks about it for a minute, goes to watch First Contact and Insurrection...*

[James]

Wow, I've enticed you to watch 3 hours of Star Trek :D - shouldn't you be watching Generations as well for comparison? Or would that task be just way too painful for you ;)

I think mine is E. I prefer the more military design. Space is not a place for kids - especially annoying ones.

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by SJJ
Wow, I've enticed you to watch 3 hours of Star Trek :D - shouldn't you be watching Generations as well for comparison? Or would that task be just way too painful for you ;)

I think mine is E. I prefer the more military design. Space is not a place for kids - especially annoying ones.

I don't know.... I kept thinking that the military design was like Star Trek was selling out to what's "cool"... like if Superman traded his costume for a "cool" black leather outfit.

[Jedigreedo]

Yeah, Berman and his team are mostly trying to make ships as aerodynamic or just really cool to draw more people in who like "very sleek ships."

[The Penguin]

Originally posted by SJJ
shouldn't you be watching Generations as well for comparison?

:rolleyes:

*Stops working on English paper, goes to find his copy of Generations...*

[Mr. Obsession]

Well despite it's flaws, as naraht so rightful pointed out, TNG is still my favorite. Why? Probably for the same reason many of the old time fans stick by TOS, TNG was the series I grew up with. I was nine when "Encounter at Farpont" first aired (oh my, Mr. O shows his age :eek: :rolleyes: ), up to that point I had seen re-runs of TOS and enjoyed them (and still do, but on a different level now that I'm older), but TNG was really able to grab my imagination. I don't know what it was, but the show has something that just struck a chord with me. And TNG has, to date, the best cliffhanger in Star Trek history ever: "The Best of Both Worlds". Sure the first two seasons were "ehh" and the last was iffy at times, seasons 3, 4, 5, & 6 were right on the money.

That said while TNG may be my favorite Trek to date, I do think that DS9 was the best due to it's general mood, character development, and overall story telling. But still it's missing something that made TNG so memorable to me. I haven't quite figured out what it is yet, but I suspect that it has to do with the fact that while I love the story arcs of DS9, specific episodes usually didn't standout to me (I have the same problem with B5).



Originally posted by naraht
WOW! I've never met anyone who LIKED the finale to Voyager...I thought the Voyager's finale was decent, but (spoiler code used for The Penguin :) ) they really should have gotten home at the end of season 5 or 6. Just another case of Voyager being hit or miss to me, as it was for much of the series.



Well, while we're comparing notes.....how many people here read the novels besides me? And if so, which book, or books are your favorites?

Mine have to be the TOS Novels by Diane Duane! (ie where Naraht comes from) Diane Duane's written some good stuff for both TOS and TNG, but my favorite author is, without a doubt Peter David. He's just able to get the characters right, (I don't know what it is but he does it) and I don't think he's ever written a story that contradicts anything any of the TV series have done up to that point: the man does his homework.

As for favorite books, I'd have to say Peter David's New Frontier series, excellent stuff. I finished "Being Human" around Christmas ( :eek: :eek: :eek: ), and waiting for the next book is killing me. :D



Originally posted by SJJ
TOS. No doubt and it's transistion to the movie screen.

Why? Because in my eyes it has never been bettered. It wasn't as pompous as Roddenbery's later affairs. The music was exciting and well scored. How many ST:TNG themes can you recall? Very few, if nothing but the title theme. ST:TOS? How about the infamous joust theme first used in Amok Time? The Doomesday Machine roaring brass. Priceless.I particularly love the main theme from the TNG episode "The Inner Light". A beautiful piece from one of my favorite episodes.



It had characters. Well, three to be accurate, but thats why it worked.

Star Treks big mistake at the moment seems to be wrought from the problems they had with the grumbling original cast. They wanted more screen time and stories that centered around more than the three main, well fleshed characters. Newsflash - you make a good secondary Mr Sulu, but an episode based on you would frankly be VERY dull.
When the new generation of shows appeared they seem to have taken this cast grievences and began doing episodes on all characters. Bad move. Very few people want to see an episode about Neelix/Wolf/Geordi/Dax/Jake etc. They do however enjoy the main characters (Data/Picard/Sisko/Bashir/Janeway/Tuvok/Doctor/7 Of 9/Riker etc.). Filling your seasons with dull stories about minor characters seems suicidal.
The original ST had three main characters, each uniquely vital to the triangle. Kirk pretty much has an Angel and Devil on each shoulder (Bones and Spock). They juxtapostion of the three made their stories interesting and THANKFULLY these weren't distracted by unnecessary side characters. When you sat to watch TOS, you knew what you would get. Kirk, Spock McCoy and not the fear of Dax/Frengi/Wolf dominating an episode.I wouldn't call any character who's actor is listed in the main credits of series opening a minor character. ;) Personally I consider this one of TOS's major flaws. Most of the series focused on Kirk, Spock and McCoy (TNG: Picard/Data/Worf; Voyager: Janeway/the Doctor/varying depending on season until Seven was introduced; Enterprise: probably Archer/Tripp/Tapol(sp?)), but I tended to find the episodes that focused on the underused characters of the series to be some of my favorites.

Maybe you wouldn't have found an episode about Sulu boring if he had gotten more character development. And one of the best ways to do that it is to have episodes that focus on said character. :p



The OS had no technobabble and thus relied on science fiction concepts and human soloutions. Energy not encountered before is far more interesting and exciting to a tacyon barrier or the likes..

They were the first to weave the fragility of age into their stories. The first to steal a ship from Starfleet, the first to destroy their careers for their comrades. All in all for more emotionally driven storylines.

Well I'd say that being the first Trek series gives TOS a distinct advantage in this field. ;) But the technobabble was there, just in smaller quantities (and most of it coming from Spock and Scotty) I just think it's overlooked and not criticized because it's the first Trek series.

But I don't think being the first to do something makes for more emotionally driven stories than the other Trek series. In fact I'd argue that not only since the other series have been able to create just as good a storyline using the same basic plot as something from one of the Trek series that came before, but use it in a different way, or in some cases do something that hasn't been done in one of the previous series is just as impressive.



I'll happily watch any of the incarnations however ST:TOS has something which always absorbs me - and before someone begins to grumble out the sexism or political problems with the series - remember, it is a part of it's period, you can't condemn it for that.

Remember it was the first and had no role model. The others did. No argument there. TOS is still quite a show, despite it's age and the period in which it was produced.



Originally posted by SJJ
So do you Next Generation lovers prefer Enterprise - D, or E? E. There’s just something about it that feels right considering that the Enterprise is suppose to be the flagship of the military/exploration branch of the UFP. The D was cool and all, but it was really a glorified cruse ship. :p The E makes no effort to hide military background. I guess it has to do with the fact that I prefer more a military feel to my science fiction.

[Naraht]

Originally posted by Nightflower


I don't know.... I kept thinking that the military design was like Star Trek was selling out to what's "cool"... like if Superman traded his costume for a "cool" black leather outfit.

I dunno about that...

In the original series, the ship was a military vessel, designed for exploration...It was run like any navel ship, and there were no...Full Time Civilians on board...

One of the things that did bother me about tng, was the whole Families in Space atmosphere of the Enterprise-D...
Here they are going into battles with the borg...with civilians on board (a Best of Both Worlds/Emissary rant...so DS9 is guilty of continuing that)

The whole Enterprise-D to me, felt more like a Luxery Liner than a Starship...I dunno.



I have to say...as much as I like Star Trek, as time goes on, I find I like B5 better than all of them...hrm, tie to start a B5 fan thread..=D

[Kal-el]

While I may be one of the few that has enjoyed ALL of the Trek incarnations (even Voyager!), my favorite has always been DS9. TNG was great, but too bright and friendly. Voyager had some great action and good stories, but some implausible ideas (the ship was spotless after 7 years...a bit hard to believe for me). DS9 had everything I craved. Action, comraderie, tension, captivating story arcs (the Dominion War arc was one of the best in TV history, IMHO).
So, DS9 gets my vote!

[James]

Mr Obsession:
But I don't think being the first to do something makes for more emotionally driven stories than the other Trek series. In fact I'd argue that not only since the other series have been able to create just as good a storyline using the same basic plot as something from one of the Trek series that came before, but use it in a different way, or in some cases do something that hasn't been done in one of the previous series is just as impressive.

No that's true, but I think sometimes people over look the fact that the first series had no presidence and criticise it for it's more simpler storylines. Indeed the new series' have benefited from some more complex character issues and some less linear out comes!