Offspring In The DCAU [Archive]

Silverstar

10-23-2008, 11:49 AM

Ok, so we know that in the DCAU, at some point Bruce Wayne's DNA lead to Terry being born, who would later come the second Batman. We also know that Jon Stewart And Shayera Hol eventually had a son named Rex, who would at some point become War Hawk.. In addition, we know that Aquaman at some point had a daughter who would become Aquagirl. There may have been another child that I am forgetting to mention.

Well, if this counts, Terry mentions that Static has a son in the Static Shock episode "Future Shock", though he's never seen and is not mentioned anytime after that.

Regarding Warhawk, he first appeared in "The Call", though there was no Justice League show at the time, so of course there was no mention of him being John and Shayera's son there. He was only later retconned into that role and given tan skin for JLU. It was basically a happy accident for the writers. "Hey, on Justice League, we've got John Stewart diggin' on Hawkgirl, and I just remembered that we had a bird guy in the JLU in "The Call". So why don't we say that the bird dude in "The Call" is their future son?"

In "Epilogue," Bruce mentions that "Kent" is waiting for Terry. I like to think that maybe it's not Clark that's waiting for him, but maybe Clark at some point had a son who eventually joined the JLU.

The only thing wrong with that theory is that we know Clark is still on the JLU of that timeline, evidenced by "The Call". "Epilogue" didn't take place that much later than "The Call", so it seems unlikely that Clark had a kid who would've aged to League eligibility in that short a time.

Ollie and Dinah probably, no most certainly had a child sometime in the 50 years up to Batman Beyond. Same goes for the Question and Huntress.

Do you have proof of this? Just because we saw these characters flirting with one another and/or dating on JLU, it's not a given that they all stayed together long enough to marry each other and have children. That's really just an assumption on your part.

Personally, I think it's kind of presumptuous to assume that every DCAU couple, semi-couple or would-be couple would/will eventually all get married and have kids, let alone that all of their offspring would/will don capes and join the Justice League of the future. That's the stuff cheesy fanfics are made of.

ABrown

10-23-2008, 12:41 PM

The only thing wrong with that theory is that we know Clark is still on the JLU of that timeline, evidenced by "The Call". "Epilogue" didn't take place that much later than "The Call", so it seems unlikely that Clark had a kid who would've aged to League eligibility in that short a time.

Well I think "Epilogue" stated in the beginning of the episode that it takes place 65 years from now, which would be about 15 years or so after whatever year they were in when Batman Beyond ended. I think Terry might be about 32-33 or so. But say Clark already had the child when "The Call" took place, the child might have been a baby at the time. So it's possible in Epilogue that the child might be 16 years old or so. I mean at the time of Epilogue, Clark would probably be around 100 years old or so, about the same age that I assume Bruce to be at that time. Granted, a 100 year old Superman could still probably take on any person on the street, or even many supervillians for that matter. But I personally like to think that it's a 16 year old "Superboy" if you will, as apposed to a 100 year old fart.

BigFatHairyDeal

10-23-2008, 01:02 PM

Well I think "Epilogue" stated in the beginning of the episode that it takes place 65 years from now, which would be about 15 years or so after whatever year they were in when Batman Beyond ended. I think Terry might be about 32-33 or so.

They don't really say 65 years, but that should be about right. In the "fantasy" flashback Terry has, Dana says they were dating for 15 years (!).

But say Clark already had the child when "The Call" took place, the child might have been a baby at the time. So it's possible in Epilogue that the child might be 16 years old or so. I mean at the time of Epilogue, Clark would probably be around 100 years old or so, about the same age that I assume Bruce to be at that time. Granted, a 100 year old Superman could still probably take on any person on the street, or even many supervillians for that matter. But I personally like to think that it's a 16 year old "Superboy" if you will, as apposed to a 100 year old fart.

I think the "Kent" line was obviously meant to be Kal-el, but I'm curious about your theory. Who do you suppose would be the mother? Lois is clearly out of the picture, unless you consider some weird science, even stranger than what Waller did to mess with Terry's father.

Toddman

10-23-2008, 01:06 PM

It's also just as possible that Superman could have had a full grown son at the time of "The Call" (who may not have been a member of the JLU). The age of such a character would make him only slightly older than McGinnis and suggest a future version/second generation of the Superman/Batman Team.

And for the record:

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/epilogue/01.jpg

Well I think "Epilogue" stated in the beginning of the episode that it takes place 65 years from now, which would be about 15 years or so after whatever year they were in when Batman Beyond ended. I think Terry might be about 32-33 or so. But say Clark already had the child when "The Call" took place, the child might have been a baby at the time. So it's possible in Epilogue that the child might be 16 years old or so. I mean at the time of Epilogue, Clark would probably be around 100 years old or so, about the same age that I assume Bruce to be at that time. Granted, a 100 year old Superman could still probably take on any person on the street, or even many supervillians for that matter. But I personally like to think that it's a 16 year old "Superboy" if you will, as apposed to a 100 year old fart.

I'd never considered that the "Kent" mentioned in "Epilogue" could be Superman's offspring, but I have to say that I think the idea that McGinnis would be a role model or mentor for a younger "Kent" (he did call to get Terry's advice, afterall) is very intriguing and definitely suits the spirit of the episode.

Toddman

BigFatHairyDeal

10-23-2008, 01:13 PM

Oh yeah, that's right, when I first saw the episode I missed the beginning. Like a lot of other viewers... :p

Rick Jones

10-23-2008, 01:55 PM

I wonder what kind of life Terry's brother, who's also part Bruce Wayne, would be leading around the time Epilogue took place. I can't imagine any "son" of Batman, or any kid of Wayne blood for that matter, growing up to be Joe Schmo but anything's possible.

BigFatHairyDeal

10-23-2008, 03:28 PM

I'm trying to find it either on youtube or somewhere since I don't have my DVDs here at work, but I'm pretty sure that they actually do say "65 years from now" at the beginning of the episode. I agree that there's no way that Lois is having his baby when she's over 80 years old. I mean if she were ever to have his child at all, they would have to conceive and wait for the child to be born somewhere that there is a red sun. So I'm not really sure how he's got a child, we do see Big Barda in The Call. Maybe they had a one night stand after a big JLU battle. Or maybe Wonder Woman and him decided to have a child together. I've looked to try to find some precedence of Clark having a son at any point in the comics, but I haven't found any.

I'm sure Mr. Miracle would have a fit if Supes and Barda messed around. I don't think they could use the mind control excuse (http://sayitbackwards.blogspot.com/2007/08/10-worst-moments-in-superman-history.html), either. :)

You would have a hard time finding in-continuity stories about Superman's kid, other than that (IMO) dreadful Bryan Singer movie. You'd have to look to Elseworlds to find most of his kids, and most of them are Wonder Woman's kids, including Project A-ko's protagonist. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_A-ko#Summary)

I wonder what kind of life Terry's brother, who's also part Bruce Wayne, would be leading around the time Epilogue took place. I can't imagine any "son" of Batman, or any kid of Wayne blood for that matter, growing up to be Joe Schmo but anything's possible.

I'm going to throw a ridiculous, absurd theory out there. The DNA-altering shot Warren McGinnis had was like a tetanus shot. It had expiring efficacy, so Terry's little brother was not affected by Bruce's genes because he was conceived past the shot's expiration date. Hence, Terry is Bruce's only biological son.

Since I'm stubborn, I'm standing by that until one of the show's higher-ups says I'm wrong. :evil:

ABrown

10-23-2008, 04:11 PM

I'm sure Mr. Miracle would have a fit if Supes and Barda messed around. I don't think they could use the mind control excuse (http://sayitbackwards.blogspot.com/2007/08/10-worst-moments-in-superman-history.html), either. :)

You would have a hard time finding in-continuity stories about Superman's kid, other than that (IMO) dreadful Bryan Singer movie. You'd have to look to Elseworlds to find most of his kids, and most of them are Wonder Woman's kids, including Project A-ko's protagonist. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_A-ko#Summary)

Ah, but where was Mr. Miracle during The Call?? I didn't see him. Maybe they're not together anymore, or maybe he was killed (possibly by Superman which would fit into The Call's storyline). And speaking of The Call, why had Superman aged and Barda hadn't? She didn't seem to have aged as much as he did (see below). But you're saying there was some small out of continuity story of Clark and Diana having a child? I can work with that.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/bios/barda/02.jpg
http://jl.toonzone.net/jlu/003.jpg
http://jl.toonzone.net/superman/001.jpghttp://jl.toonzone.net/jlu/002.jpg

Blackstar

10-23-2008, 04:14 PM

Toddman

10-23-2008, 04:30 PM

I'm going to throw a ridiculous, absurd theory out there. The DNA-altering shot Warren McGinnis had was like a tetanus shot. It had expiring efficacy, so Terry's little brother was not affected by Bruce's genes because he was conceived past the shot's expiration date. Hence, Terry is Bruce's only biological son.

Since I'm stubborn, I'm standing by that until one of the show's higher-ups says I'm wrong. :evil:

I think the original post for this was lost with the vast majority of the original "Epilogue" talkback thread, but b.t.'s exact quote on the subject was:

“Well, we didn’t come right out and say it, but since Warren’s love gun was shooting 'Bruce Wayne bullets,' yes, Matt is also Bruce’s biological son."

Classic.

Toddman

TheVileOne

10-23-2008, 04:46 PM

ABrown

10-23-2008, 04:47 PM

You guys are basically grasping at straws here, because:

1) There was no Justice League series when "The Call" was made, and...

2) The only reason why Barda was in "The Call" at all was because Wonder Woman couldn't be used at the time due to legal restrictions.

That's the fun of these threads. There's real world explanations for everything. But it's fun to try to make in-story explanations for everything that happened.

I'm going to throw a ridiculous, absurd theory out there. The DNA-altering shot Warren McGinnis had was like a tetanus shot. It had expiring efficacy, so Terry's little brother was not affected by Bruce's genes because he was conceived past the shot's expiration date. Hence, Terry is Bruce's only biological son.

Since I'm stubborn, I'm standing by that until one of the show's higher-ups says I'm wrong. :evil:

I'm pretty sure Bruce Timm did say that since Terry is Bruce's son, Terry's brother is also.

asphaltviking64

10-23-2008, 04:55 PM

You would have a hard time finding in-continuity stories about Superman's kid, other than that (IMO) dreadful Bryan Singer movie. You'd have to look to Elseworlds to find most of his kids, and most of them are Wonder Woman's kids, including Project A-ko's protagonist. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_A-ko#Summary)

Haha. Loved that movie. DC should add Project A-ko that to one of their many universes, see how much fans would react. :D

But yeah some of the other offspring in the DCAU would be WW as she is the daughter of Hades and Hippolyta. So I guess that could count.

TheVileOne

10-23-2008, 05:03 PM

ABrown

10-23-2008, 05:06 PM

BigFatHairyDeal

10-23-2008, 05:18 PM

My problem with Epilogue though is that in one scene, Terry is breaking it off with Dana. And then in another he's calling her to confirm their weekend away and it sounds like they are still together there.

What the heck happened there?

The breakup scene never happened. The scenes in black and white were imaginary events going on in Terry's mind.

Ah, but where was Mr. Miracle during The Call?? I didn't see him. Maybe they're not together anymore, or maybe he was killed (possibly by Superman which would fit into The Call's storyline). And speaking of The Call, why had Superman aged and Barda hadn't? She didn't seem to have aged as much as he did (see below).

Big Barda is a New God, born on Apokolips. I imagine she ages like High Father and Darkseid: very, very slowly.

Superman's aging from "The Call" seemed to mimic his aging in Kingdom Come. Speaking of...

But you're saying there was some small out of continuity story of Clark and Diana having a child? I can work with that.

There's actually a lot of instances when they have a kid, and many of them are some of DC's bigger Elseworld storylines. One is the aforementioned Kingdom Come, another well known tale includes The Dark Knight Strikes Again. Then there are handful of lesser known JLA titles, including "Distant Fires" and "Act of God." (As an aside, the only story I mentioned worth going out of your way to read is KC). Even the last issue of vol. 2 of Wonder Woman implies that in a parallel universe, the two get married.

Now that I feel totally responsible for hijacking the thread, I'll try to steer us back by asking what happened to Aquaman's eldest son? I'm guessing he went MIA along with his pops.

Silverstar

10-23-2008, 05:25 PM

Now that I feel totally responsible for hijacking the thread, I'll try to steer us back by asking what happened to Aquaman's eldest son? I'm guessing he went MIA along with his pops.

It's also possible that the poor kid met a bad end (foul play, perhaps?) sometime after season 1. Note how we don't see the tyke (nor is there any mention of him) in season 2's "The Terror Beyond".

Toddman

10-23-2008, 05:37 PM

It makes sense considering that Matt McGinnis is the spitting image of Bruce and Terry.

My problem with Epilogue though is that in one scene, Terry is breaking it off with Dana. And then in another he's calling her to confirm their weekend away and it sounds like they are still together there.

What the heck happened there?

As others have already mentioned, although it's probably clearer upon a second viewing, the black and white scenes are not flashbacks, but imaginary scenarios meant to underline the "doom and gloom" approach Terry was headed toward before he decided to take Waller's advice and "have a better life than the old man."

The scene you mentioned when Terry confirms his plans w/Dana, also "reverses" all of the other black and white scenes:

The grandfather clock is whole and in one piece.

Terry is on his way to meet "Kent" at the Metro Tower, showing he is still affiliated with the JLU.

Terry and Old Man Wayne are on friendly speaking terms, and Wayne seems unaware that he's actually McGinnis' biological father.

Toddman

Tobias

10-23-2008, 06:50 PM

It might be entirely possible that Matt went on to become Robin to Terry's Batman sometime between the end of 'Return of the Joker' and the beginning of 'Epilogue', and could conceivably be running around the future DCU as a high-tech Nightwing.

Just tossing that out there.

TheVileOne

10-23-2008, 07:42 PM

As others have already mentioned, although it's probably clearer upon a second viewing, the black and white scenes are not flashbacks, but imaginary scenarios meant to underline the "doom and gloom" approach Terry was headed toward before he decided to take Waller's advice and "have a better life than the old man."

The scene you mentioned when Terry confirms his plans w/Dana, also "reverses" all of the other black and white scenes:

The grandfather clock is whole and in one piece.

Terry is on his way to meet "Kent" at the Metro Tower, showing he is still affiliated with the JLU.

Terry and Old Man Wayne are on friendly speaking terms, and Wayne seems unaware that he's actually McGinnis' biological father.

Toddman

Good point and I didn't catch that at all upon first viewing.

Ace didn't have any offspring from the looks of it though. I was always kind of hoping that Ace would have puppies so future Batmen would have more Ace the Bathounds.

Dr. Zin

10-24-2008, 02:27 AM

In "Epilogue," Bruce mentions that "Kent" is waiting for Terry.

Mmm. The easiest explanation for this one points not to Superman, but to Dr. Fate, whose nominal secret identity is Kent Nelson, and whose magical power suite definitely includes the potential for greatly increased longevity. [I'm not sure whether or how often this comes up onscreen in JL/JLU, but we definitely hear him call his wife "Inza", which matches the comics continuity.]

What other possible offspring may have taken place?

Having mentioned Kent & Inza Nelson, I forget how their marriage is handled in the comics just now, but a child of theirs presumably isn't out of the question. And while it seems unlikely that Zatanna ever hooked up with Bruce to that extent, it seems equally unlikely (to me) that she'd have remained wholly unattached -- so a third-generation Zatara-clan member strikes me as highly probable.

BigFatHairyDeal

10-24-2008, 04:47 AM

Mmm. The easiest explanation for this one points not to Superman, but to Dr. Fate, whose nominal secret identity is Kent Nelson, and whose magical power suite definitely includes the potential for greatly increased longevity. [I'm not sure whether or how often this comes up onscreen in JL/JLU, but we definitely hear him call his wife "Inza", which matches the comics continuity.]

That's quite a stretch. Has anyone in the DCAU ever referred to Dr. Fate as "Kent"? Bruce Wayne has referred to Superman as "Kent" (off the top of my head, "Twilight," toward the end, when he tries to interfere with the fight w/Darkseid). We also know that Supes is alive and active in the JLU in the BB era. And finally, Supes and Bruce have a long history.

I think we have every reason to believe "Kent" is Superman, and not Dr. Fate.

ABrown

10-24-2008, 11:24 AM

You guys forget that Aquaman had an infant son during his first appearance on Justice League. Not a girl. So at the time of "The Call" when Aquagirl is around, that means she should have like an older brother in his 40's. Unless her brother died.

He probably took after his dad and doesn't affiliate himself with the League unless it directly concerns Atlantis. You know if you think about it, Aquaman had to be pretty old when he had his daughter. She looks like she's about Terry's age. And if you figure Aquaman to be around the same age as Bruce or so, she was probably born when Aquaman was around 65 or so.

TheVileOne

10-24-2008, 02:26 PM

Yeah but do Atlanteans age the same as humans?

adoptedBatpuppy

10-24-2008, 06:35 PM

I'm sure there is more then one planet with the red sun on it.

And as far as the animated series go I think it's implied that Static Shock has a kid and Green Lantern and Hawkgirl have a kid for sure.

That's that. :yawn:

Silverstar

10-25-2008, 11:45 AM

Yeah but do Atlanteans age the same as humans?

Aquaman's father was also a wizard, don't forget that. Who knows how they age?

Toddman

10-25-2008, 04:58 PM

That's quite a stretch. Has anyone in the DCAU ever referred to Dr. Fate as "Kent"?.

It is a stretch, but to be fair, Inza referred to Fate as "Kent" in "The Terror Beyond" part 1. Coincidentally, that was the only episode in which Aquaman was also called "Arthur" (also by his wife). And speaking of Artie...

Aquaman's father was also a wizard, don't forget that. Who knows how they age?

His father in the (modern) comics, sure, but who knows what his lineage is like in the DCAU. As long as we're throwing around speculation that Superman might have a full-grown son in the Beyond era, I say why not Aquaman? Here's some further speculation...

We saw in "The Call" part 1 that Aquagirl's father is the missing-in-action Aquaman, but what if it turned out her father was actually Aquaman II? She could be the granddaughter of the original Aquaman, her actual father being the adult version of the infant from "The Enemy Below"? It's a built-in reason to explain why the picture of Aquaman shown in "The Call" was a short-haired, non-bearded version.

Just some fun fan-make-em-ups.

Toddman

ABrown

11-02-2008, 04:53 PM

Ok, I found a possible explanation for Superman having a son in the DCAU. I read on Wikipedia.com, (and yes I realize that the odds of this being accurate information is about 1%, but humor me), that Clark and Lashina conceived a child during the events of "Legacy." And his son became the ruler of Apokolips, presumably years after the events of "Destroyer." Apparantly, his son was going to invade Earth during what would've been the forth season of Batman Beyond. Perhaps, during the invasion he ends up realizing that he was raised by the bad guys and stays on Earth becoming friends with Terry and joining the JLU.

"Lashina appeared during the series finale two-parter, Legacy, where she apparently had a romantic relationship with Superman, but attacked him when he turned on them. Lashina also appeared in Justice League Unlimited (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_League_Unlimited) in the first part of the series finale, Alive. She was set to appear in Season 4 of Batman Beyond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_Beyond) in which the events of Legacy begin to haunt Superman once again. It was revealed that they had a child and he became the new ruler of Apokolips. Their son invades Gotham City which gets the attention of Terry McGinnis and the Justice League. She helps them fight off his invasion. However, the series was cancelled. The writers said that they didn't want to use the idea in Justice League or Justice League Unlimited due to the fact they wanted to focus on new characters." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashina

upinout

11-03-2008, 12:13 AM

I am by no means a comic book reader, I just watch the DCAU... But I thought I did read somewhere that at one point clark and lois found a young kryptonian boy and raised him, naming him Chris Kent.

I don't see why that couldn't have happened at any time during the DCAU timeline, giving Clark a son and someone for Terry to pal around with.

I really wish they could continue the Batman Beyond timeline with new movies and such. It could be fun.