Is it possible to be a meat eating enviromentalist?

[I.R Joey]

Hey there everyone!

So I'm a vegitarian (considering Veganism eventually...maybe) and I just wanted to throw that question out there. I've heard some of my fellow herbivores boldly claim that it is impossible to be both a regular meat eater and a "green" person. They say that the meat industry (well Vegans would say the food animal industries in general) are contributing in huge ways to much of the enviromental degredation in today's world. Everything from the cutting down of the Amazon (for cattle farms), to water polution (run off from animal waste) to "farting" cows producing the very potent green house gas methane. Infact some people would say that these practices do more to harm the planet then the biggest gas guzzlers out on the road.

Peta, and some other groups, called Al Gore out for not addressing this issue in his talks about climate change. Some have even called him a hypocrite for not becoming a vegitarian. Some groups also called out the organizers of the Live Earth events for serving meat at the concerts. They claimed that they were defeating the intent of the event.

Anyway as a person who's vegitarianism is in large part motivated by a desire to be more eco-conscious I found this interesting. So I'm interested in hearing from everyone else.

P.S This is in no way meant to scold anyone, I'm not the kind of vegitarian who likes to rant at meat eaters (having once been one myself.)

[Tay the Cat]

Yes, it's very possible.

I am one.

Also, pay no attention to PETA. They've never done any good for anyone. Heck, they KILL animals and admit to doing so.

[G. Wen]

Of course. Part of the problem lies in unhealthy eating habits. In the U.S., the general population consumes 3 times as much meat as they should daily. This high demand for meat has led to very intensive argonomy, and a variety of individual health problems. If everyone ate the daily, recommended amount of meat, think of the amount of intensive ranching that would reduce. Also, ignore PETA and self-rightous vegetarians/vegans. They think they know how to better serve the environment, when in reality they are clueless and misinformed.:yawn:

[Mynd Hed]

Exactly. All things in moderation and all that. The problem, both health-wise and environment-wise, isn't that people eat meat, but that they eat far too much.

[Anyone00]

Is it possible to be a meat eating environmentalist?

Yes, look at Ted Nugent (I'm serious); he's probably done more for the environment with his own hands than PETA ever did.

[SirLemming]

Most carnivorous animals would have to say "Yes" to that, if they could talk. If we screw up the environment they'll basically be dead, but that has nothing to do with their meat-eating, so yeah.

[Ed Liu]

The key part to remember in the criticisms of the environmental impact of eating meat is that the practices that have the maximum negative "green" footprint are the results of factory farming, and there are more options nowadays for you to buy meat while contributing minimally (if at all) to those practices. You may pay a price premium for doing so, but personally, I'm willing to pay that extra bit because I think the meat usually tastes better. It also tends to be locally produced meat, which is better environmentally because it has to travel less to get to you and is fresher when it does.

-- Ed

[Daxdiv]

Well I got to eat meat, otherwise those animals in the supermarket died for nothing. It would be a sin since their purpose was to eaten.

Besides I ignore whatever BS PeTA has. Weirdest claim I ever heard from them was wanting Ben and Jerry's to use HUMAN breast milk instead of cow in their Ice Cream, and saying that milk from cows causes Autism?:shrug:

You want to join a real environmental group, join GreenPeace, they'll go the extra mile as they prevented things like Seal clubbing, and Oil dumping.

[Sparticus]

Of course. The problem with livestock isn't the livestock themselves (or the consupmtion there of), it's how they're maintained. It's EXTREMELY wasteful and oftentimes cruel. The stupid part is if the agriculture industry would just shift away from mas production, and go back to small farms providing food for the immediate area, the impact on the environment would be minimal; the animals would live healther lives, which means better meat and there'd be less waste. Don't let any farmer John act fool you - they're not in it to "feed the world" they're in it for profit.

This is actualy true of all mega-farms. People have raised their own food for eons without major problems - it was when someone got the bright idea to convert millions of acres into one crop for profit is where trouble started. Diminished biodiversity, pollution, clear cutting... all to make a buck.

[I.R Joey]

Most carnivorous animals would have to say "Yes" to that, if they could talk. If we screw up the environment they'll basically be dead, but that has nothing to do with their meat-eating, so yeah.

I suppouse these folks would argue that meat eating animals serve to control the population of plant eating animals, thus serving ecological balance.

The argument of many vegitarians including me is that the water, and land and resources that go towards feeding hungry food animals (who in turn feed us) should go towards feeding hungry people. There are quite a few vegitarians who believe that if we diverted the crop resources we use to feed our food animals towards feeding people we could make signifigant steps towards alieviating world hunger. I guess that technically isn't related to enviromental issues but it's interesting.

I think it's kind of odd, that with all the talk about human contribution to climate change this topic doesn't seem to come up more.

[Roman Legion]

The argument of many vegitarians including me is that the water, and land and resources that go towards feeding hungry food animals (who in turn feed us) should go towards feeding hungry people. There are quite a few vegitarians who believe that if we diverted the crop resources we use to feed our food animals towards feeding people we could make signifigant steps towards alieviating world hunger.The counter argument is that this is irrelevant. Ridding the world of oppressive governments and war would likely do more for solving world hunger, but doing both at the same time is a slow process. It doesn't matter how much more we can provide when aid is either stolen or turned away. You also can't get much done if those delivering food have to negotiate a war-zone.

The other problem is economics. In theory, higher crop yields lead to lower prices, leading to farms going belly-up, leading to food shortages for everyone. Mountains of legal problems and a mire of farm subsidies will stand in the way of actually resolving that.

After the above is fixed, if people are still starving, then the world-hunger argument for going vegetarian would carry more weight. I expect to be raising my own chickens long before then, anyway.

--Romey

[Spideyzilla]

I'm very eco-friendly, and I love meat. It is absolutely possible.

[I.R Joey]

The counter argument is that this is irrelevant. Ridding the world of oppressive governments and war would likely do more for solving world hunger, but doing both at the same time is a slow process. It doesn't matter how much more we can provide when aid is either stolen or turned away. You also can't get much done if those delivering food have to negotiate a war-zone.

The other problem is economics. In theory, higher crop yields lead to lower prices, leading to farms going belly-up, leading to food shortages for everyone. Mountains of legal problems and a mire of farm subsidies will stand in the way of actually resolving that.

After the above is fixed, if people are still starving, then the world-hunger argument for going vegetarian would carry more weight. I expect to be raising my own chickens long before then, anyway.

--Romey

Solid points, and I realize that there are other issues at play but I still think we could feed alot more people with a less animal intense diet (not saying everyone has to be a vegan.)

[J'onn J'onzz]

Not really. The farming industry feed so much unnatural stuff to cattle. Cows are one of the top causes of global warming.

[Bat Bruce]

Course it's possible its nothing personal, I'm hungry a cow's made of beef, its a business arrangement. (yes i stole it from al murray, sue me ;) )

[Wounded_Dragon]

Exactly. All things in moderation and all that. The problem, both health-wise and environment-wise, isn't that people eat meat, but that they eat far too much.

This.

Similar to the recent biofuel/crop price problems, moderation is key.

[Tay the Cat]

Not really. The farming industry feed so much unnatural stuff to cattle. Cows are one of the top causes of global warming.

LOL WUT?

This is completely bogus.

[G. Wen]

The argument of many vegitarians including me is that the water, and land and resources that go towards feeding hungry food animals (who in turn feed us) should go towards feeding hungry people. There are quite a few vegitarians who believe that if we diverted the crop resources we use to feed our food animals towards feeding people we could make signifigant steps towards alieviating world hunger. I guess that technically isn't related to enviromental issues but it's interesting.
Once upon a time, farm animals ate the food we couldn't digest. Cows and sheep ate rough and dried grasses. Pigs ate corn cobs, nut shells, potato skins, and the center of cabbages and lettece. Goats ate branches. Recently, with the overconsumption of meat, all farm animals have to grow faster and bigger, which led to feeding them grains. Many ruminants are not meant to eat grains, they're designed to consume rough materials. Because of this, they got sick easily. So in comes the overfeeding of steriods and antibiotics.

I always wondered, if fast food chains replaced their hamburger patties with a new patty consisting of 50 percent beef and 50 percents beans, would people eat it, or even notice? (I've had 100 percent bean burgers, and they taste just like the real thing.)

[Mynd Hed]

Heh. Ever see the Doublemeat Palace episode of Buffy? (-:

[Wounded_Dragon]

Bah. You want to get turned off meat (or at least fast food) read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser. I couldn't eat out anywhere for months after reading that.

[Ed Liu]

I think it's kind of odd, that with all the talk about human contribution to climate change this topic doesn't seem to come up more.

I think it does come up, but the problem is that it'll be easier to convince Americans to drive less and drive smaller than it will be to get them to give up their hamburgers and steaks, and we all saw that it was only $4 gas that got Americans to begin to change their driving habits. It's only the radical fringe that brings up the idea that everybody should turn vegetarian for the sake of the environment. The more rational environmental groups may bring it up, but it's pretty far down on the list under buttoning up your house, recycling, and generally reducing your energy consumption.

Besides, just because you're not making meat doesn't mean you can't screw up the environment real good growing vegetables. Again, factory farming practices lead to giant mono-crops grown in the same place year after year. Basic organic farming techniques don't do this because you leech all the good nutrients out of the soil and all the pests begin to make their homes in the vicinity because they know exactly where to go to get a meal. This leads to introducing pesticides and chemical fertilizers to get your same yield, which then bleed off into ground water, &c.

-- Ed

[HG Revolution]

Bah. You want to get turned off meat (or at least fast food) read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser. I couldn't eat out anywhere for months after reading that.

Haven't touched a single bit of fast food since then...

I eat meat, but I try to avoid eating beef at restaurants unless said restaurant buys locally or otherwise seems to be higher-quality. I only buy kosher meat for eating at home anyway and I trust kosher farms moreso than the mass slaughterhouses.