Posts that will be closed/deleted [Archive]

Killtacular

03-03-2002, 02:03 AM

I'm going to be closing and/or deleting any NEW posts that ask:

1) What the Adult Swim theme is
2) How many posts they need to get an avatar
3) The Cowboy Bebop fake live-action movie poster

And posts about the following shows:
Trigun
Ranma
DBZ
Evangelion
Invader Zim

Simply because there are too many posts about them. WILLIAMS STREET KNOWS PEOPLE WANT TO SEE TRIGUN. And Ranma is simply out of the question. And ADV/Gainax won't hand over Evangelion no matter what.

I -may- close threads like "Baby Blues freakin' sucks!", depending on the content of the thread. If it's a completely destructive thread, I'd close it. If it offers constructive criticism, then fine.

dawnyoshi

03-03-2002, 02:31 AM

Why exactly is it out of the question? Do you know something I don't? Sorry, but I've only been around for a week.

J-chan

03-03-2002, 02:38 AM

I don't claim to know the real answer, but I'll hazard a guess.

It's probably the whole gender issue of the series. Nudity as well. You can't paint bathing suits on everthing in Ranma.

Case in point: when Ryoga first fights Ranma and finds out he turns into a girl. Male-Ranma's shirt gets torn and then he turns into a girl, whereupon they would need to cover up the breasts. If they did that THERE, they would have to have male-Ranma wearing something under his shirt as well, and that would just look really, really bad.
Not to mention the first episode when Ranma and Akane meet each other in the bath.. twice..

My two cents.

dawnyoshi

03-03-2002, 03:11 AM

However, this is Adult Swim Action. It seems as though their block could handle that a little. Look at the amount of jokes in things like Ambigious Gay Duo and Family Guy. Those aren't right either, so I see no problem with Ranma on at late-night. Now Toonami, you would be left with the ranma trailers to watch. lol

SSJ_Gogeta

03-03-2002, 04:43 AM

Family Guy & Ranma are not the same.

Masturbation jokes do not equal nudity & sex.

TV-14 is the AS standard. I don't know how much nudiy is in Ranma, but TV-14 only allows minor nudity.

Calhoun07

03-03-2002, 06:13 AM

I am going to add any Nick toonz threads to that list. We don't need them here. Invader Zim isn't coming to Adult Swim, and we need not waste board space and time with posts about it anymore. Take it to the AniEntertainment board, where you can post about Nicktoonz to your hearts content there.

Killtacular

03-03-2002, 07:03 AM

Ranma has nudity galore. TONS of nudity. Ridiculously, unneeded nudity, but nudity nonetheless.

Naraht

03-03-2002, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Ranma has nudity galore. TONS of nudity. Ridiculously, unneeded nudity, but nudity nonetheless.

You say that like it's a bad thing! =O

am I the only one who's noticed the thread telling people what NOT to talk about is made of mostly people talking about it?

Oh well, it's self contained that way...=D

Eh, I don't mind the new rules, and there's always AniTainment to talk about Ranma, Escaflone, etc....

=D

I'll support Matt! Who's with me?

(OK, enough, I'm off to watch the two hours of ASAction I taped last night...)

Chris Sanders MSX

03-03-2002, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Ranma has nudity galore. TONS of nudity. Ridiculously, unneeded nudity, but nudity nonetheless.

I still like the idea of CN throwing those Black Boxes all over the place as kind of a joke. Like they could different stuff, like "Go Buy The DVD" , "Ewww"...etc. I mean some people would be annoyed by it, but the people who really want to see Ranma on Tv would be happy. Matt what do you think of the Black Box idea ?

As soon as I get a new Job I'm dedicating all my money to Ranma Dvd's, because I'm sick of holding on to this hope that it may appear on Tv someday.

Killtacular

03-03-2002, 10:10 AM

Cartoon Network's opposed to that kind of editting.

They also hate those "Girls Gone Wild" commercials too.

Chris Sanders MSX

03-03-2002, 10:14 AM

Heh... What exactly do they have against it ?

Sora Takenouchi

03-03-2002, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Chris Sanders MSX
Heh... What exactly do they have against it ?

Come on, I'm sure if you think hard enough you'll know the reason immediatly.

Naraht

03-03-2002, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Chris Sanders MSX
Heh... What exactly do they have against it ?

against Ranma? Reasons have been given..against the tacky, tasteless, age inapropriate ads which are aimed at looser guys who can't get dates?

I dunno...=]

Chris Sanders MSX

03-03-2002, 11:04 AM

I wasn't talking about the series. I was talking about "black box" editing. Go back and read before you comment, please.

Naraht

03-03-2002, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Chris Sanders MSX
I wasn't talking about the series. I was talking about "black box" editing. Go back and read before you comment, please.

Cause it looks tacky. You're the only person who I know of who thinks it's "funny"

Killtacular

03-03-2002, 11:10 AM

It's way too tacky.

Cartoon Network prefers cropping or blurring.

Chris Sanders MSX

03-03-2002, 11:42 AM

Then why not Blur it ? Like they did on Sealab.

Cause it looks tacky. You're the only person who I know of who thinks it's "funny"

I said they could MAKE it funny. Do you have a problem with reading or something ?

Anyway, Is it expensive to blur all the nudity or could this actually be a soulution to the Ranma Problem ?

Spike Mcdougal

03-03-2002, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Cartoon Network's opposed to that kind of editting.

They also hate those "Girls Gone Wild" commercials too.

Hate as in too many blurs and black boxes or what's on those tapes

Kesh

03-03-2002, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by naraht
am I the only one who's noticed the thread telling people what NOT to talk about is made of mostly people talking about it?

At least this way, it's all contained to one thread. A much better solution, in my experience.

dawnyoshi

03-03-2002, 02:44 PM

Ranma has nudity galore. TONS of nudity. Ridiculously, unneeded nudity, but nudity nonetheless

Actually, I have noticed that Ranma 1/2 is not as bas as you described Matt. If you look at it, many things are worse. The only nudity problem in Ranma 1/2 is with Ranma himself, or when they try to stall Happosai. They could easily blur those things out, or put little chibi faces there as a censor. Who knows. It is possible whether you believe it or not. Personally, I believe it possible, especially after OWNING over half of the series. That is right, so don't try to outpass me on these major questions. ;)

Artemis

03-03-2002, 04:13 PM

Ranma 1/2 won't get on Adult Swim unless it goes on late-night with a TV-MA rating and it's not even a TV-MA show to begin with.

Let it go people. Ranma 1/2 will not come on Cartoon Network. Ever. Just get the DVDs or VHS (if you still buy those things. :rolleyes: ;) )

zmanjz

03-03-2002, 10:51 PM

Nooooooooo,

Don't close the trigun threads? Where else Can I vent about that?

AH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!

After all who but trigun fan-----atics are as interested in a world made of Love and Peace (and having it on Adult Swim)!!!!

Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace!!!

ok, that's enough.

I'm done venting for tonight (on the topic of trigun).

Fata Morgana

03-04-2002, 02:44 AM

Why are you guys so hot for Ranma 1/2 to be on television anyways? Take it from a hard-core Takahashi fan, Ranma 1/2 the anime sucks a**. You're MUCH better off reading the comic. And while you're at it, pick up the Inu Yasha comic as well. :p Meanwhile, if you want a good anime action-comedy, try Slayers. That's the one I wish CN could get (but they can't, of course, because someone else owns the broadcast rights.)

I can understand you're wanting to close down the Trigun and Eva threads, Matt, but I kinda wish you wouldn't. I'm sure what you say is true about CN execs realizing that we want those shows. . . . but still, it's good to show them _how much_ we want them. But maybe I'm being a tad overly-optimistic about how much CN cares or notices what we want. . .

Fata Morgana

SSJ_Gogeta

03-04-2002, 05:38 AM

Why do you think Williams Street is stupid Fata Morgana?

Why would you say they don't care about what we want? They are obvious anime fans, and I think they know whats out there. If they didn't OS, Big O, and Tenchi would never have come to american television. If anything they might have grabbed Digimon, or some cutesy crap. It's not like they don't try. If it was easy they would have a ton of shows lined up, but distributers, and creators might want something else. Money is always a problem too. Give them a break. How can you, at this point think they are ignorant to what is good, and what the fans want? Just because they don't have 200 interviews & publicly say what they are going after doesn't mean they are sitting on thier asses.

Naraht

03-04-2002, 08:25 AM

It's not that you can't talk about Ranma, Trigun, Eva, etc....

it's that you can't talk about wishing they were on Adult Swim, and talking about them on the Adult Swim board.

Feel free to start an "I love Ranma" thread on the AniTainment Board...or a "Trigun Lovers Annonymous" thread, etc...

what Matt is saying, goto AniTainment for these shows, and keep the Adult Swim board focused on ACTUAL Adult Swim shows.

K?

Fata Morgana

03-04-2002, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by SSJ_Gogeta
Why do you think Williams Street is stupid Fata Morgana?

Why would you say they don't care about what we want?

How much of a portion of the audience do we represent? Internet junkies aren't exactly in the majority. . . nor are anime fans, for that matter. It's not that I'm disparaging CN; it's very clear that they listen to the fans. But it appears more likely to me that the fans they "listen" to are the ones who take the time to write in, a group that's probably a lot more diverse and representative of the majority than the the people who post to Toonzone. CN wouldn't be "stupid" to ignore or at least "take with a grain of salt" the things said at Toonzone. Rather, it's a sign that they're intelligent if they do that.

Fata Morgana

zmanjz

03-04-2002, 10:56 AM

But I just went over there (AniTainment) to look around <shudders> They frighten me over there.

Anyway, If they're going to ban all the trigun on adult swim threads, how about all the Family Guy on adult swim threads, or the futurama on adult swim threads. As a person who enjoys action shows more then the animated sitcoms, I don't want to feel oppressed by "THE MAN" (or the woman).

I can seeombing all of us trigun nuts into single threads, but don't delete us... (because I don't want to be exiled to the freaky anitainment board, where the freaky barbers are from.)

What about comparisons between shows like Cowboy Bebop, and Outlaw Star and Trigun? That would be a thread that 's 66.6% ASA and 33.3% TRIGUN. Would that be ok?

TylerL

03-04-2002, 11:06 AM

Look at it from a mod viewpoint...

"wHEN IS tRIGUN COMING TO tOONMAI?"
"Trigun on ASA?"
"i heard a romer about trigun on adult swim next week"
"GIVE US TRIGUN!"
"WHY HAVEN'T THEY SHOWD TRIGUN YET?!?"

One thread is ENOUGH.
A new Trigun thread everyday is just stupid.

zmanjz

03-04-2002, 11:25 AM

The upside though is that it gives me evidence that TRIGUN Auctually is one of the most desired Anime Shows.

(A question which my professor in History 372 "Popular Culture in Urban Japan" asked me recently. )

I had no idea until this month. And I assume that the Williams Street people visit these boards at least once in a while. I would hope that they would come to the same conclusion as myself.

(Thereby increasing the chances that trigun would appear on Adult swim (which due to it's editing is preferable to toonami))

(and yes, I know they know, but it never hurts to support that foundation)

I have only ever made 1 trigun thread, and although I have posted on other trigun threads, I haven't tried flooding. (as I would see that as something akin to stuffing the Ballot box. It would get me what I want at an Ill expense. )

I would rather continue to do what I have been doing and attempt to Hype TRIGUN so that other people would want to watch it. (If you have ever seen it, you know how good it is).

Ohwell, I've gotta go and take an CJ Exam (from a professor who doesn't really seem to have a lesson plan or goal of any kind) , but I'll be back to rant more later.

Oh yeah, as for the multiple threads.... Just condense tham, I don't mind ;)

TylerL

03-04-2002, 11:27 AM

They already know how good of a fit Trigun is.
They knew CB was a perfect fit...in fact, better than Trigun.

dolphin917

03-04-2002, 06:51 PM

Seriously. Ranma sucks. It SUCKS. It sucks as bad as Pokemon, as bad as Dragonball. It sucks.

So can I start three dozen "I want to see vanilla" posts?

Chibi Kageboshi

03-04-2002, 07:02 PM

Dragonball Pokemon and Ranma 1/2 are all good shows.

dawnyoshi

03-04-2002, 07:59 PM

Seriously. Ranma sucks. It SUCKS. It sucks as bad as Pokemon, as bad as Dragonball. It sucks.

(behind the scenes, dawnyoshi is seen tormenting dolphin with a tickle feather and one of Akane's giant mallets)

I happen to be a giant Ranma fan. I also believe it would fit well. Although a corny censor, they could make it so that every time Ranma changes into female, she "automatically" gains a bra. Not like that would severely affect the show in any way. There is no need for panties as they never show that deep of nudity on Ranma. I don't see why you people say there is NUDITY galore, but it has to stop. You cannot pass that on me, k?

dolphin917

03-05-2002, 12:50 PM

Dragonball Pokemon and Ranma 1/2 are all good shows.

I liked the Banana Splits, too, but that doesn't mean I thought it was a good show. These shows stink. Like, they really really stink. These shows are the lowest common denominator of the anime world.

I happen to be a giant Ranma fan. I also believe it would fit well. Although a corny censor, they could make it so that every time Ranma changes into female, she "automatically" gains a bra. Not like that would severely affect the show in any way. There is no need for panties as they never show that deep of nudity on Ranma. I don't see why you people say there is NUDITY galore, but it has to stop. You cannot pass that on me, k?

It's okay to be a Ranma fan. I liked Ranma a lot when I first started watching anime also. But, as far as anime goes, the show is simply not that good. First of all, Takahashi is insane. Her stories lack cohesion and/or direction. The character design makes everyone look pudgy-faced, the animation itself is cheap-looking, and the characters are one-dimensional. Her villians are comically insane and the fighting scenes are parodies of themselves. Now, this type of thing is genuinely funny for 13 episodes, maybe even 26. The fact that it drags on (and ON and ON and ON) for a mind-numbing 136 episodes containing roughly the same crap we saw before is astounding. In addiditon to the brain-rotting series, they assaulted us further with countless (at least 8) OAVs and two movies. And they stunk even worse. Yes, it's funny watching the boy in the girl's body talk to the giant panda, but enough already.

I'd like to see something like Lain or NieA_7 or vanilla.

VinceA

03-05-2002, 01:19 PM

I think others that say the shows are good are just stating their opinions - just like you are when you say that they "stink". It's all opinion since everyone measures things differently. I don't think you can really fault someone for liking a certain show...

Fata Morgana

03-05-2002, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by dolphin917
First of all, Takahashi is insane. Her stories lack cohesion and/or direction. The character design makes everyone look pudgy-faced, the animation itself is cheap-looking, and the characters are one-dimensional. Her villians are comically insane and the fighting scenes are parodies of themselves.

Now hold on a minute, there! You can't blame Takahashi for the failings of the anime series. Takahashi's stories DO have cohesion/direction, and her villans are at least interesting. It's the anime that takes things out of proportion and makes the stories overly-silly and repetative and the characters one dimensional and boring. Takahashi's stories are genuinely good, which is why I suggested reading the comic. You can even read some of them online:

http://www.techserv.curtin.edu.au/ranmascan/

Fata Morgana

Andy Mancini

03-06-2002, 12:01 AM

OK... Let me get this straight. A few days ago, we got the "final warning" on all posts dealing with Ranma, Trigun, and Evangelion. I've noticed that the fans of these shows have dealt with this news in their own "unique" way. The Ranma fans are trying one last campaign to convince everyone that the show doesn't suck and is able to be edited for Adult Swim. The Trigun fans are whining because they won't be able to start any threads that feature whining about how Cartoon Network should pick up Trigun. And the Evangelion fans... we're just staring aimlessly into space, completely oblivious to everyone.

DJ Gir

PS - For the record, Ranma has much more depth and direction than all of you naysayers give it credit for.

dawnyoshi

03-06-2002, 12:09 AM

Try watching the first 4-6 episodes. Maybe then you'll quit complaining about that lack of plot. :mad:

TylerL

03-06-2002, 01:04 AM

...then watch 80 or so episodes in, and realize that it ran out of steam 50 episodes ago.
I love Ranma just as much as the next guy, but you can only go so far with a concept.

Andy Mancini

03-06-2002, 11:12 AM

(WARNING: I have a lot of time to over think this today. My database class isn't until 6:00 at night, my work is done, and I'm bored. So, that being said...) Ranma, to me, doesn't come off as one of those giant saga-based martial arts shows. It has, in my opinion, more similarities with a show like "The Simpsons" than a show like "Dragon Ball Z". The Simpsons, cut down to it's most basic level, is about a wacky American family doing wacky things with a wacky supporting cast. Ranma is about a wacky Japanese dojo doing wacky things with a wacky supporting cast. A lot of the Ranma episodes have the same comic timing as a lot of the Simpsons episodes. (Watch the episode where the "legendary" phoenix hatches on Kuno's head to see what I mean.) Another problem that some people have is that they say that the characters in the show is get old really quickly. How is Kuno's longing for the "red-headed, pig-tailed girl" or Gemna's signs any different than Mr. Smither's longing for Mr. Burns or Maggie's pacifier? If you're a fan, it might be a little expected, but not old. I'm not saying that Ranma Saotome and Homer Simpson are one in the same however. The type of humor in both shows are completely different, but their approach is basically the same.

zmanjz

03-06-2002, 12:42 PM

Though I'm in this thread as a TRIGUN fan (Hey man, squeaky wheel gets the grease)

I feel a need to defend Ramna 1/2.

I am studying this show as a component of Japanese Urban Popular Culture, and use of it is very insightful to both Anime, and Japanese Culture.

I recomend that people don't knock it until after you have read: Anime from Akira to Princess Mononoke: Experiencing Contemporary Japanese Animation, By Susan J. Napier

Though I have not yet seen Ranma (screenings are at the end of the semester), this look into the series (which does spoil all of the plots) is a good arbiter of both artictic intent, and the auctual show.

Just because a plot is simple or repetitive doesn't mean it's bad. After all EVERY show can be distilled down to basic elements which are constantly repeated.

Batman: Badguy causes trouble-> Batman hunts him down, fights him, and wins.

Cowboy Bebop: They go arround hunting bounties, and never making it big while the sword of Damocles hangs above them (Vicious)

Etc.

So, as long as the show is interesting, and not a true kiddy show. I t can be good.

Although personal preference does play a part here. Persnally, I don't like th majority of Disney Cartoons or Baby Blues. (Tast is subjective.)

But there is a difference between saying something is a bad show and that You Don't like it. Saying that a show is bad, implies that the people making is were incompetent. While the fact that you don't like it implies a difference of taste.

Example: Alot of people don't like DBZ. I Do. This is a matter of taste. (The fact is that I like the vast majority of Action Anime, including EVERYTHING on ASA. while my personal prefrences are not for the Sunday Night version.

Oh well, enough of this rant I'll end with:

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....... TRIGUN (MWA HA HA HA HA HA)

Fata Morgana

03-06-2002, 01:40 PM

I guess part of the reason I really hate the Ranma 1/2 anime is because of how it bastardizes the manga. If it were just a cheesy anime by itself, I wouldn't mind. But because I'm such a fan of the comic, it bothers me that that crapola bears the Ranma name. Lots of what's in the anime isn't even funny. Every time I try to give the Ranma anime another chance, someone does something wildly out of character and dumb, and I hate it all over again.

Anyway, like plenty of people said, Ranma 1/2 on television is a pipe dream. It ain't gonna happen. Inu Yasha the anime will probably make it to tv, though. . . with a minimum of edits, too, since it doesn't have nearly as much objectionable material as Ranma.

Fata Morgana

dawnyoshi

03-06-2002, 06:40 PM

I still don't think Ranma 1/2 would need that many edits for Toonami. The nudity isn't that bad, and the only things seen are topless. Never full frontal. They have shown is close before, but never completely.

dolphin917

03-07-2002, 04:44 PM

Look, I'm not trying to be elitist when I say Ranma stinks. I listed my reasons as to why I think it stinks.

zmanjz writes:

Batman: Badguy causes trouble-> Batman hunts him down, fights him, and wins.
You can't really compare Batman to any anime. Batman is an American icon, and it's a different series. Yes, it's repetitive, but it's not an anime. I expect more from anime.

Cowboy Bebop: They go arround hunting bounties, and never making it big while the sword of Damocles hangs above them (Vicious)
No. Cowboy Bebop is about a man who is unwilling to let go of the past and throws away his life in the process. Spike was so unwilling to let go of a former life that he was absolutely unwilling to even consider living the life he had in front of him. He was a fool. It teaches a lesson to those who are willing to listen. Ranma is about ridiculous kung-fu and repetitive one-dimensional comical villians. Comparing Ranma to Cowboy Bebop is like comparing Pocky with filet mignon. Pocky is great, but try eating 138 episodes of it.

dj_gir writes:

Ranma, to me, doesn't come off as one of those giant saga-based martial arts shows. It has, in my opinion, more similarities with a show like "The Simpsons" than a show like "Dragon Ball Z".
I agree with you, but Ranma passes itself off as a serial, and not episodic like The Simpsons.

fata morgana writes:

Now hold on a minute, there! You can't blame Takahashi for the failings of the anime series. Takahashi's stories DO have cohesion/direction, and her villans are at least interesting. It's the anime that takes things out of proportion and makes the stories overly-silly and repetative and the characters one dimensional and boring

I haven't read the Ranma manga, so I'm sure what you're saying is at least partially true. I also don't like Urusei Yatsura and Inu Yasha. I did read the Inu Yasha manga, and it felt very derivative and unoriginal.

dawnyoshi

03-07-2002, 07:37 PM

I'd like to state right now that any who harass Urusai Yetsura horrifically in many post will more and likely be beat down by my friend's anime group at college. The guy is obsessive over the show. :p

As for me, I happen to like off the wall comedy. That's why I like Loony Tunes. Ranma has that funny touch, with some VERY WELL DRAWN OUT martial arts fight scenes. The only part that gets repetitive is all of the martial arts things (Martial Arts Take-out, Martial Arts figure skating, Martial arts Chess...etc, etc, etc,)

Fata Morgana

03-08-2002, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by dolphin917
I did read the Inu Yasha manga, and it felt very derivative and unoriginal.

I would say that that's a fair assesment. But what I like about Takahashi are not necessarily her stories. Her stories are more like a canvas on which she paints her characters. Takahashi has a very subtle, compassionate, humorous way of writing characters, that bespeaks of a true understanding of human nature. It's more obvious in non action manga such as "Maison Ikkoku", but her layered characterisations can be found in all her manga, even something as off the wall as Ranma, even for characters as seemingly one dimensional as Genma or Soun.

Besides, being derivative doesn't instantly make it bad. I can't think of anything MORE derivative than Cowboy Bebop, but it's still one of my favorite anime.

Fata Morgana

dolphin917

03-08-2002, 06:19 PM

fata morgana writes:

. I can't think of anything MORE derivative than Cowboy Bebop, but it's still one of my favorite anime.

Very, very few animes can truly be 100% original. The only one I can think of right now is Utena, which contains material that has never before been covered in anime. Many animes belong to one genre or another, and as such, can't possibly be 100% original. When Shinichiro Watanabe created Cowboy Bebop, he sought to create a genre unto itself. A genre which blends and mixes to create something unlike everything else. Yes, it borrows, but it is very far from derivative.

Evangelion is a good example of how one genre can be taken to its limits, and can be seen as derivative. Eva is a standard issue mecha anime, seemingly identical to all others at first. It isn't until a little later that we learn that it's a *******ed therapy session.

Fata Morgana

03-09-2002, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by dolphin917
Very, very few animes can truly be 100% original. The only one I can think of right now is Utena,

Ah, but Utena is derivative too - it borrows heavily from "The Rose of Versailes". Again, this doesn't make it bad (it's another one of my favorites) and I certainly agree that there's much originality in it. It surprises me how many people write things off by saying "it's too derivative" or "that's just a copy of. . ." without realizing that _everything_ is derivative. Though I admit, I hate when things are just wholesale rips of other things. . . that just makes me mad. Chris Rock, you really shouldn't have remade "Here Comes Mr. Jordan", George Clooney, you're no Ulysses. For that matter: Disney, I like my Greek myths the way they are! And that goes double for my French novels!! Stick with ripping fairy tales, it's what you do best. :p On second thought, wholesale theft really *isn't* what bothers me after all. It's theft that's done badly that I hate.

Fata Morgana

dolphin917

03-11-2002, 01:40 PM

Ah, but Utena is derivative too - it borrows heavily from "The Rose of Versailes". Again, this doesn't make it bad (it's another one of my favorites) and I certainly agree that there's much originality in it.

Utena borrows very lightly from The Rose of Versailles. Yes, it involves France, swordsmen, a girl who acts like a boy, and a girl who doesn't like her place in life, but the similarities end there. Like Cowboy Bebop, it only looks the same on the very surface of it. After watching a single episode of it, it's very clear that it's not like anything else that came before. The Rose of Versailles does not delve into the psyche of an abused and psychologically tortured girl.

Fata Morgana

03-12-2002, 11:27 PM

You're right, my bad. Utena only takes surface elements. The story elements are derived from "The Prisoner" (television show) and "The Year of Living Dangerously."

It still remains that Utena is derivate. And damn good, too. :cool:

Fata Morgana

chibilain

03-13-2002, 05:24 PM

Well, yes, very very few animes have original basic plot lines, but unfortunately very few anything that tells a story is 100% original. It's life. Ideas are used up and have been since stories starting getting told. But like zmanjaz said, as long as its interesting it can still be good. It's not like the writers do it on purpose (At least, i hope not...). I mean, for example, whenever I try to write a short story or a fanfic I try to get as close to an original plot idea as possible. However, when I go over the idea, I can always find at least a bit of it being related to something else. It's alllllll subconsious, i guess.
As for cartoons and animes being repetative in their daily roots, well of course. This is true for just about everything that is in series form...since, thats one of the things that makes a series a series as opposed to a one shot story. There is, of course, some sort of story behind it (In the case of 90% of the animes out there) but it is set in series format, or it'd be one long-ass movie. (Also the difference between a movie and a television show). Like in the case of cowboy bebop, sure, there's a great story behind it, but it is episodic. You can't really argue around that. They get a bounty, track the guy/girl, and never quite get it. Now what makes it good is that there are other things that don't necessarily happen daily going on.
The only anime I have found that there is a brand new whole plot line per episode is Excel Saga. (That was probably the strangest anime I have ever seen)And even that has core elements that make it from just being totally random each time....Excel wants to eat Menchi. Menchi tries to escape. Excel wants to please Iparatzu(sp). But each time its almost transformed into a whole different genre (which, I'm pretty sure, was the intent of the writer, but still). Yes, animes do put a little(lot) more into the background story and in to things like what else is going on, but they still are episodic unless it's a movie like Princess Mononoke.
Personally, I think Serial Experiments Lain is very original, but then again I'm biast...=p So, correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Anyway....Um...I'm not sure I was trying to make a point in there. Ah well. Read it or don't. Hope I didn't offend anyone, 'twas just what I think.

JasonBlood

03-15-2002, 03:27 AM

I'm just opsting this message to get my tenth post, so's I can get's my avatar. PLease don't delete me. I like INvader Zim, but will not talk about him no more. As for Adult Swim and such, I love's it all, baby.

Killtacular

03-15-2002, 01:30 PM

Do that again and I'll puncture your eyeballs with a rusty nail.

Not pleasant, I assure you.

randomguy

03-16-2002, 01:33 AM

Chill Matt, Chill.

DJRed

03-16-2002, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Do that again and I'll puncture your eyeballs with a rusty nail.

Not pleasant, I assure you.

Haven't there been talks recently about no threats without a smiley?

what? oh, he's a mod? oh.....

guess that screws my argument.....

VinceA

03-16-2002, 07:46 AM

I think someone posting something like "I'm just posting to get my avatar" is worthy of some good East Coast justice :) <- smile included

dolphin917

03-18-2002, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Fata Morgana
You're right, my bad. Utena only takes surface elements. The story elements are derived from "The Prisoner" (television show) and "The Year of Living Dangerously."

It still remains that Utena is derivate. And damn good, too. :cool:

Fata Morgana

I really disagree that Utena is derivative in the same way other animes are. Anime is a medium that lends itself to knockoffs and cheap imitations. No other anime before Utena even remotely approached the subject matter and style that Utena had. Nothing. From the music to the character design to the plot to the dialogue, it was unique to anime. The same can be said for Cowboy Bebop.

randomguy

03-21-2002, 09:33 PM

From the music to the character design to the plot to the dialogue, it was unique to anime. The same can be said for Cowboy Bebop.

Actually, Cowboy Bebop borrowed heavily from Lupin the 3rd on all of those counts. Lupin has the clever dialogue, jazz soundtrack, lanky character designs, and the the recurring theme of the past catching up with you that Cowboy Bebop does.

Fata Morgana

03-22-2002, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by dolphin917

I really disagree that Utena is derivative in the same way other animes are. Anime is a medium that lends itself to knockoffs and cheap imitations. No other anime before Utena even remotely approached the subject matter and style that Utena had. [

And I think you're fooling yourself. There are other anime (and as I pointed out, live action American media) that have used the subject matter and stylings of Utena.

Nothing. From the music to the character design to the plot to the dialogue, it was unique to anime. The same can be said for Cowboy Bebop.

Music? I can't say because I really haven't seen much of what there is to see in anime. Character designs?! Where ya been, darling? The character designs are the most derivative part of Utena. Hell, Touga is a direct rip-off of Allen Schezar from the Vision of Escaflowne (design-wise. . . even partially character-wise). As for the subject matter which you seem to think is so unique - the ideas in Utena, while certainly presented in an wierd, "brain-screw" manner, are pretty common to shoujo anime. Unfortunately, not a whole heck of a lot of shoujo makes it over here to compare. Utena is derivative as they come. It does, however, present what it's derived in a way that's original (I think. . . but then, I haven't seen barely any of the shojo anime that's out there). It has at least that going for it. Cowboy Bebop, on the other hand, is just Lupin III in space, with a film noir ending and some pop culture references. Even the soundtrack, while uncommon to anime, is derivative of American music stylings. Don't get me wrong; I love both of those series. I'm just not fooling myself about what it means to be "original." There's nothing new under the sun. That's just the way it is.

Fata Morgana

randomguy

03-22-2002, 11:23 PM

I'm just not fooling myself about what it means to be "original." There's nothing new under the sun. That's just the way it is.

No no no no no no no no. And no. I think you're just looking in the wrong place. I'm not saying this is you, but it is a problem with a lot of anime fans I know: they seem to be completely and totally forgetful of the fact that America has a really awesome underground animation scene. It seems like most anime fans I've dealt with are chronically fixated on Japan, as if it's the only place which puts out good animation, when at this point in time, I find a lot more artistic visionaries in America. They're just more submerged, but I think, alot greater in number. There's some pretty cool stuff going on at various festivals and things...I saw some interesting shorts at Austin's South by Southwest fair last week....look into that matter and I think you'll find some pretty original and sometimes very engaging stuff. Ok. Rant finished.

Evil Dr. Reef

03-23-2002, 05:09 PM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Anime is 50% plagarism, and 50% improving on what you plagarized.

Hardly anything anymore is completely original. Everything borrows from something else that came before it, it's just a matter of how well they used the source material. You can have good results (Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion, etc.) and you can have bad results (Pilot Candidate, etc.).

Fata Morgana

03-23-2002, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by randomguy

No no no no no no no no. And no. I think you're just looking in the wrong place. I'm not saying this is you, but it is a problem with a lot of anime fans I know: they seem to be completely and totally forgetful of the fact that America has a really awesome underground animation scene. It seems like most anime fans I've dealt with are chronically fixated on Japan, as if it's the only place which puts out good animation, when at this point in time, I find a lot more artistic visionaries in America. They're just more submerged, but I think, alot greater in number. There's some pretty cool stuff going on at various festivals and things...I saw some interesting shorts at Austin's South by Southwest fair last week....look into that matter and I think you'll find some pretty original and sometimes very engaging stuff. Ok. Rant finished.

Listen, you're getting the wrong idea about my posts. I'm not fixated on Japan - I like American stuff as well. And I'm not fixated on _animation_ either - I like a variety of mediums. But the expression "There's nothing new under the sun" is suprisingly, amazingly true, the more you study about such things. No story is completely original. You can go back to plays and books from ancient Greece and discover that the story you thought was so "orginal" was written and enjoyed centuries before you were born. Anyone who fails to acknowledge this is fooling themselves. Perhaps it's an expression of elitism - "I only watch what is original, therefore I am superior to you stupid anime fans who only like things which are derivative." (I'm not saying this about you in particular, Randomguy, but I have noticed this in other people) This is, of course, a load of bullsh*t. The truly honest must acknowledge that true, 100% originality is an impossibility.

Fata Morgana

randomguy

03-24-2002, 01:50 AM

Well that's absolutely true, every possible story CORE has been used. And every work has some basic elements of something else. But I think there's ALWAYS room for innovation, in any medium. And not just semi-innovation, I mean, full-on, completely revolutionary innovation. Just because something might have the elements of something else doesn't mean that it can't be considered totally new. It might seem at any given time like every idea is exhausted, but inevitably, some work comes out that changes everything. There's always room. It's a historical fact. Case in point:

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
-Charles H. Duell, US Comissioner of Patents, 1899

'Nuff Said.

Teio

04-01-2002, 08:32 PM

I wanted to ask that is CN using they full extent of there PG-rating when it comes to Yu Yu Hakusho?and if not why? and if yes why not bump it up to a TV-14 rating instead.If I'am completly wrong here can someone explain how the Rating system works?

Optimus Prime

04-18-2002, 05:28 PM

No pickles!

:mad:

randomguy

04-20-2002, 10:26 PM

Hey what was up with that Jesus thread? Bizarre... I kinda wish the thread hadn't been closed, I kinda wanted to talk about that, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with AS.

Matt Hazuda

05-08-2002, 01:03 AM

Hey Matt, how about including all Viacom/MTV owned toons to the list of shows that will cause a thread closure including, but not limited to: Aeon Flux, The Maxx, The Head, Liquid Televison, and any other Oddities series. Threads seem to pop up about these shows every week for some reason.

Ten98

05-09-2002, 05:04 AM

Is awesome :D

Opaque

05-17-2002, 06:54 PM

people are actually lame enough to make zim posts? who comes to adult swim to make zim posts. let me at em...

Ten98

05-17-2002, 07:19 PM

Do what now?

Green Guardsman

05-19-2002, 11:24 PM

Yeah, but no one moderates as many boards as Jim Harvey. My god, how many boards does that guy moderate? 7, 9?

Vidfreak

05-26-2002, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Fata Morgana
Why are you guys so hot for Ranma 1/2 to be on television anyways? Take it from a hard-core Takahashi fan, Ranma 1/2 the anime sucks a**. You're MUCH better off reading the comic. And while you're at it, pick up the Inu Yasha comic as well. :p Meanwhile, if you want a good anime action-comedy, try Slayers. That's the one I wish CN could get (but they can't, of course, because someone else owns the broadcast rights.)

I can understand you're wanting to close down the Trigun and Eva threads, Matt, but I kinda wish you wouldn't. I'm sure what you say is true about CN execs realizing that we want those shows. . . . but still, it's good to show them _how much_ we want them. But maybe I'm being a tad overly-optimistic about how much CN cares or notices what we want. . .

Fata Morgana
Slayers sucks its like pokemon with swords and magic

evangelion_angel

05-29-2002, 10:11 AM

I completly agree with your choices on what posts to get rid of.

evangelion_angel

05-29-2002, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Vidfreak

Slayers sucks its like pokemon with swords and magic

How dare you say that I can't stand pokemon but slayers is great. Tell me how is it possible to say they are the same except for swords and magic. :confused: I mean i don't want to start up any wars but i just don't understand your logic on it.

ohmrbill

05-29-2002, 06:53 PM

Slayers is absolutely nothing like Pokemon. One is geared toward preschoolers, one is not.

VashTheStampede

06-01-2002, 03:03 PM

Bloop! :):):):(

Vidfreak

06-01-2002, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by ohmrbill
Slayers is absolutely nothing like Pokemon. One is geared toward preschoolers, one is not.
i have watched the show before this is preschooler crap watch lodoss war instead theres a better plot then the childish episodes of the slayers and the voice actors in slayers are from pokemon if you wanna know.

GPietrash

06-02-2002, 10:55 AM

So, you are saying that because they share the same voice actors they are the same? One of the voice actors from Bebop has appeared on the television show JAG (thanks, Fata), does that make Bebop just like JAG?

-GPietrash

Vidfreak

06-02-2002, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by GPietrash
So, you are saying that because they share the same voice actors they are the same? One of the voice actors from Bebop has appeared on the television show JAG (thanks, Fata), does that make Bebop just like JAG?

-GPietrash
no, it doesnt but it points out the kiddieness this show has i hate lena inverse shes so damn annoying shes the second most annoying character in history next to jar jar.

EinBebop

06-03-2002, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by Vidfreak

Slayers sucks its like pokemon with swords and magic

Two points: 1: Pokemon with magic is redundant

2. Pokeman with swords would be cool!

"Pikachu! Decapitation attack!"

:D

bassist

06-03-2002, 02:26 AM

I would pay to see various pokemon die bloody, painful deaths... Sadly, I would also pay to see the looks on little kids' faces watching that...

-Big Ben
Not as sadistic as you think.

Neohunter

06-04-2002, 04:30 PM

I'll say this:
As long as Pokemon doesn't interfere with CN or AS, It's alright. If, and when, that does happen, we should start a Vs. post and dicuss this interesting topic.........

Now....

I know that Evangeleon won't make it to Adult Swim U.S., so why can't we get the next best thing: Zone Of The Enders ?

I also agree that AS should get a new series(Mobile Suit Gundam doesn't count) and Fast.

Mightydein

06-04-2002, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Neohunter

I know that Evangeleon won't make it to Adult Swim U.S., so why can't we get the next best thing: Zone Of The Enders ?

I also agree that AS should get a new series(Mobile Suit Gundam doesn't count) and Fast.

You guys all have little faith,.
I'll bet you ALL 10 Dollars Eva will be seen On As Before 2004.

Neohunter

06-04-2002, 05:09 PM

You know, I agree.

Something'll happen between now and that date, I just wouldn't bet money on it.

Z.O.E. would be a great substitute, though, but Evangeleon would definitely make AS worth watching.(as if it wasn't worth enough!)

reubot

06-06-2002, 05:05 AM

I think it is likely it will be shown on AS in the US, because they are showing it here in Australia on AS at the moment.

randomguy

06-06-2002, 11:16 PM

I would pay to see various pokemon die bloody, painful deaths...

Then buy Super Smash Bros. Melee. Sure, there's no blood, but it's still pretty fun to play as Samus and bust a cap in Pikachuk's ass...

Rei

06-07-2002, 08:37 PM

I would pay to see various pokemon die bloody, painful deaths...

Throw Ash, Misty, Tracy, and Team Rocket in there and I'll chip in with you on that massacre.

AAlgar

06-08-2002, 04:55 PM

I'm a bit perplexed by the philosophy behind some of the closed topics on this board.

Granted, I'm a newbie and your ways are strange and magical to me... but I've reached the end of easily three or four threads I wanted to post a reply to and found, to my chagrin/dismay/other fancy word for "disappointment" that they're locked.

Again, not a criticism. Just genuine confusion.

Joe Tully

06-08-2002, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by AAlgar
I'm a bit perplexed by the philosophy behind some of the closed topics on this board.

Granted, I'm a newbie and your ways are strange and magical to me... but I've reached the end of easily three or four threads I wanted to post a reply to and found, to my chagrin/dismay/other fancy word for "disappointment" that they're locked.

Again, not a criticism. Just genuine confusion.

Those are probably my fault. I closed a few yesterday and didn't comment. But usually I close threads if they either start becoming random and/or off-topic. The mods try to keep people talking about AS, and when discussion starts wandering elsewhere, then the discussion doesn't really belong here. Sometimes, threads are closed if discussion wanders around and becomes random, forgetting the original point of the thread (if there was one in the first place).

With "No AS on Saturday," I closed it because it was both getting off-topic in relation to the original purpose of the thread, and I was afraid that it would confuse people who could think that it was referring to today's AS.

bassist

06-10-2002, 03:53 AM

I'm surprised that the "Ask a Stupid Question..." thread was closed. It's true that some posters began to slip off topic, but the majority of posts had to do with AS in some sort of way (referring to quotes and/or activities mentioned or used in AS shows). Is it possible to ressurect that thread if we try to keep it even more on-topic?

-Big Ben

metaphysician

06-14-2002, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
And ADV/Gainax won't hand over Evangelion no matter what.

Thats odd, considering I've heard that CN is showing Evangelion in Australia.

Xevo

06-14-2002, 04:30 PM

I ---HIGHLY--- doubt that is true... I've "heard" a lot of things in my time...

metaphysician

06-14-2002, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Xevo
I ---HIGHLY--- doubt that is true... I've "heard" a lot of things in my time...

Well, I've talked with somebody who lives in Australia, who says he is currently watching Evangelion on Cartoon Network. Granted, its a forum acquaintance, not a personal one, but he's been around for a long time where I've been, and certainly doesn't have a reputation for lying.

Hmm. . . I have an idea. Be back shortly.

metaphysician

06-14-2002, 04:37 PM

Does anyone know of an online tv listing that includes Australia?? I've checked TV Guide, but they don't cover Australia??

KingVoracious

06-15-2002, 02:15 AM

As I Remember "Outlaw Star" Has It's Share Of Indecent Exposure

In A Banned Episode Of "Outlaw Star"
Where It Takes Place Of A Planet Of Hot Spas (or whatever)

Aisha Clan Clan Is Butt-Naked
And Her Boobies Are Exposed On The Telly

reubot

06-15-2002, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by metaphysician
Does anyone know of an online tv listing that includes Australia?? I've checked TV Guide, but they don't cover Australia??

I am an Australian, and i can say that this is TRUE. Heck - epidsode 6 is on tonight. Anyway, i think the only edit is the intro sequence, as I've only seen the second half of the series before.

As for the guides:
http://www.yourtv.com.au
http://www.cartoonnetwork.com.au/asp/tv/schedule.asp?date=15-June-2002

scroll down on the cartoon network one and you will find tonight's AS listing.