Batman: What changed him so much?

[Hanshotfirst113]

In the early episodes of B:TAS, Batman is a far more sympathetic (even layered) character than he ultimately becomes. For one thing, he goes from trying to save Mr. Freeze's life ("If I'm not back in time, go without me!") to a cold "I think we've seen the last of Mr. Freeze" and "It's a cold draft that blows through that house." He goes from "the hurt gets better in time" to "John Doe. That means he's dead right?" "Yes." His alienation of Dick and even (ultimately) Barbara, to finding a strange pairing in Terry as he becomes old and alone. What exactly happens to him? Any thoughts? Even Conroy's brilliant dual characterization starts to sound largely like Batman is slowly taking over Bruce Wayne.

[Apache Chief]

It's due to the nature of his mission. He fights and fights, and the world doesn't get any better, and perhaps worse. That would get to anybody.

[creativerealms]

He lives the kind of life where he constantly has to push away his personal feelings to get the job done. Sometimes it takes him all he can to keep himself from breaking one of of his most important rules, not to kill.

[aiwac]

The same thing I imagine happens to some cops and doctors when they realize they can't save everyone and/or stare evil in the face every day. They became badly disillusioned. It's a perfectly human and understandable phenomenon, and not one restricted to Batman.

Keep in mind - he's tried, and failed, to save Harley Quinn, Two-Face and others numerous times. Besides, Freeze's decision to try to wipe out the city because of his condition is far less cause for sympathy than his attempt at revenge on the man who almost kille him and his wife.

Also, Batman doesn't become a completely unsympathetic character - he concedes at the end of "Meltdown" that Terry was also right about Freeze being a good man. He even helps the Ventriloquist rehabilitate in TNBA (at the end of Double Talk - HE's the one who shoots Scarface).

[MJC]

I think you pretty much said it...he keeps fighting and the world doesn't get any better. That slowly but surely took its toll on Bats.

The same thing even happened to Superman (to a lesser extent).

[Spideyzilla]

He sees what the world is becoming. He's weary. Tired. His parent's death is haunting more as he ages.

[Wonderwall]

Because its natural to become disillusioned, apathetic, maybe even pessimistic as one gets older, why do you think so many older people are less cheery than youths? Bruce isn't the only one, Supes did too a little, Barbara did, and Epilogue Terry seems to have gotten a bit of it as well.

[Wolf Boy2]

He sees what the world is becoming. He's weary. Tired. His parent's death is haunting more as he ages.
The hole in that theory is that the world around him gets BETTER between BTAS and JLU. Gangster crime all but evaporates and the Justice League is formed to combat supervillains. The seasons of JLU ended with feel good moments reminding the audience how wonderful and necessary the League is and how much good they do. Yet Bats still becomes an ass.

I think its just bad writing, plain and simple. When writing a character like Batman, its easy to slip into a trap of making him too dark, borderline psychotic. BTAS was the ideal Batman, IMO. From TNBA onward he got rather annoying to me. Too powerful and too assy.

Now, Batman Beyond is a different story. Getting old, seeing the League age shrink and watching the world descend into hell while you cannot do anything would definitely make someone bitter. A bitter Batman in 2049 makes sense, but a bitter Batman in the early 2000s is just annoying. JLU was his peak, yet he was a consistant jerk.

[Toddman]

Trevor Balena posted an excellent essay with his thoughts on Batman's evolution here (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=168332).

As always, Mr. Balena's analysis is thoughtful and insightful.


Toddman

[Style]

This is one of those topics where the debate can be framed in a number of ways. From a strict canon in-world perspective, you could argue that Bruce becomes colder and more distant by TNBA and that's because he's becoming more jaded. cue the heroic sympathy for the guy who puts so much on the line.

Or, it could be framed from a production stand point: Maybe Batman was just played flatter in TNBA, and there is the argument TNBA is less emotionally and psychologically hefty anyway.

I tend to lean in this direction because Batman's gloomy stiffness was usually played as a gag in the following template:

Teenage sidekick makes light of the current situation, something to the effect of, "Wow, that villain sure has wacky new plan! I hope he doesn't slip on a banana peel, ahyuck!"

Batman would glower and go "It's NOT a laughing manner, take this seriously!"

And teenage sidekick would pose an aside to the audience like, "Wow, Bruce is such a stiff and a jerk!" and so on.

And if this is the case, then the argument becomes did Batman's character actually change or is it just perceived change based on a different narrative approach?

[maczero]

The hole in that theory is that the world around him gets BETTER between BTAS and JLU. Gangster crime all but evaporatesWhat proof do you have that "gangster" related crime is any less than the early days of BTAS? For all we know the crime rate in Gotham was just as high while he was with the League. I also like to think this is one of the reasons he couldn't commit to the League full-time. Besides even if normal crime was down, there was plenty to keep him busy. There was a growing superhuman criminal element, government conspiracies, the revolving door penal system, corporate corruption etc. I figure that's enough to make anyone jaded if they've dedicated their life to fighting crime.

[Hanshotfirst113]

His transformation in "Batjerk" was pretty immediate. There's obviously some transitory point between BTAS and TNBA, which is where he really becomes the character that he in essence is throughout pretty much the rest of the DCAU.

[Wonderwall]

Seriously, people overplay his "jerkiness" as well. It's not like he mistreats people like say in Allstar Batman and Robin. He still does all the things he did in BTAS only with more of a scowl. For the most part he just acts more irritated by things than he did in BTAS, you know when he was such a chipper guy to begin with:shrug:

[Jedigreedo]

While a good portion of the moodiness depends on what the writer and/or director is attempting to depict for an episode, one has to realize that Batman is not immune to the effects of his eternal war. Just as soldiers grow bitter through the ravages of battles, Batman has to endure through some very horrific, unfortunate, and scarring situations from his start as a newbie vigilante to the prestigious hero in Justice League. He's lost people he tried to save, he's been betrayed, he's loved and horribly lost, he's been criminalized for his selfless attempts, he's been shot, beaten, stabbed, and even had his sight as a potential casualty to his constant war. He's been subject to situations that made him question his own mentality. Worse yet, thoughout all of this, there is no end in sight. By the time of Justice League, no doubt he's internally conflicted and worried that if he could give up being Batman, could he cope with a "normal" life after all of that? He's practically become a paradox.

Sooo... I think it's a bit understandable that he would become bitter or "moodier," and feel less and less worried about being honest, no matter the brutality of it.