"WWE RAW" Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

The World Championship Scramble at Unforgiven (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=216322) did see a new Champion crowned, but not one that anyone expected. CM Punk was taken out backstage and Chris Jericho (after losing his match against Shawn Michaels when the referee stopped it) took his place and then took the Championship.


http://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/wwe.jpghttp://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/raw.jpgThe night belongs to Jericho
September 8, 2008

At Unforgiven, Chris Jericho experienced both one of the lowest and one of the highest points of his impressive career. Despite receiving a righteous beating at the hands of Shawn Michaels earlier in the night, the first-ever Undisputed Champion went on to win the first-ever World Heavyweight Championship Scramble. Having beat out four other Superstars to win the gold, who will World Heavyweight Champion Chris Jericho defend the title against first? And now that he has proven himself as Raw’s “top-dog,” can the rivalry between Jericho and HBK be put to bed? Now that he’s defeated his rival and new World Heavyweight Champion, what does this mean for Shawn Michaels’ future and career?

Jericho was not originally scheduled to be part of the Scramble, and only received his slot after then-World Heavyweight Champion CM Punk was rendered unable to defend it. The Straightedge Superstar was attacked in the locker room area by Randy Orton along with World Tag Team Champions Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase and Manu, the son of WWE Hall of Famer Afa. With the championship gold around the waist of Jericho, and a team of impressive second and third-generation Superstars to blame, who will feel Punk’s wrath first? Also, what is the nature of the alliance between Orton, Rhodes, DiBiase & Manu? Have they forged a new coalition of ruthless Superstars?

World Tag Team Champions Rhodes & DiBiase’s performance wasn’t solely limited to the beating they administered to the former World Heavyweight Champion, however. The two also successfully defended their titles against Cryme Tyme, proving that there’s more to these competitors than impressive last names. With the more experienced Randy Orton seemingly in their corner, who will fall at the World Tag Team Champions’ feet next?

For the answers to these questions and more, make sure to tune in to Monday Night Raw at 9/8 CT only on USA Network.

[halinar]

Wow, they made it the whole show with out using the words "unorthodox" or "athletic". I thought it was going to be a clean sweep but "opportunist" came up at the end.

Glad to see Jericho as the champ but a pretty bla show.

[sag_2002]

Highlights of RAW:

*Haas as JBL. This Big Show circa 2000 gimmick is growing on me.

*Santino continues to rule, as the Honk-a-Meter is up to 4 weeks and counting.

*Evan Bourne was very impressive, carrying the Mysterio-Bourne/Miz/Morrison match to MOTN status. And we also appear to have the return of Kane's mask angle that they seeming smurfed up last month.

Good RAW tonight.

[hobbyfan]

Worst Raw I've seen in a long time. Faces won only once the entire night (Rey/Bourne). Lazy booking rules again.

What worked: Not much. No Punk, no fun.

What didn't work: Sorry, but Santino may be funny to you, but the joke has worn extra thin with me. Wishy-washy Adamle screws over Batista. Why? J-Me-L needed to get his heat back, but look how quickly the coward bails out after getting speared, leaving Cade all alone to get killed. Not digging Rey-Rey's new mask. What's wrong with the cowl?

What should be done:

For one thing, the Adamle experiment needs to end now. Reverse the decision in the main event, then have Batista face the Punk-Jericho winner at No Mercy. If Orton interferes, he's suspended until he's 100% ready.

[SirLemming]

Wow, they made it the whole show with out using the words "unorthodox" or "athletic". I thought it was going to be a clean sweep but "opportunist" came up at the end.
Michael Cole still said "vintage" twice.
EDIT: He also called Kofi Kingston's wrestling style a "controlled frenzy" again.

In fact, after watching the PPV, where RAW dominated the card, and now sitting through this show... I'm realizing even more just how terrible Michael Cole is and how Jerry Lawler no longer really brings anything to the table. Cole says even more nonsensical phrases than Tazz, and his fake laughing at comedy angles is beyond frustrating; meanwhile, Lawler just seems tired. At the PPV he even told Michael Cole to stop talking so much and enjoy the match. But their job is to make the match more exciting, not watch it!


Rant over. Overall it was a pretty dull, sloppy show. A lot of the matches didn't really go anywhere, just serving to further storylines. In particular, it seems like Candice Michelle is a bad-luck charm, as her (pointless) ringside presence cast a strange aura of botchiness over the women's match. I suddenly became afraid that someone was going to get injured. I haven't seen a "botch aura" this dangerous since Ahmed Johnson.

Now we get a new wrinkle in this Kane-Mysterio storyline. Who wants to bet they don't know how to end it?

[The Penguin]

Not the most thrilling promo from Jericho, but I did like that he talked about getting beat down by Michaels before the Scramble. The was really the big issue for me in Jericho being able to compete in a second match after his first one was stopped and I’m glad that was addressed. Punk will definitely be ready for Jericho next week.

Whenever Mickie gets knocked off the ladder, it always seems like she has a heck of a time getting back up there. Granted, there is a built-in Phoenix-Candice feud with the injury, but it still seems rough on Mickie.

Since Noble was so convinced that Layla was his good luck charm, I think he should blame Jillian’s singing for his loss. I thought Regal might offer Layla his arm and I was originally expecting her to be interested rather than hesitant.

JBL took CHL right personal. I was not expecting him to walk out. I figured Bradshaw would take his head off before Haas even took off ‘his’ jacket. Obviously there is a high level of frustration on JBL’s part.

“Without no warning” so Kane did warn Mysterio then? The negatives cancel each other out, right?

So Lilian must have looked down the aisle and noticed Miz was by himself. “Making their way to the ring… The Miz!” :rolleyes: She’s been doing this how long now?

I was really excited to see Evan Bourne get the clean pin on RAW in the tag match. I’m thrilled to see him get some exposure on WWE’s flagship. Maybe ECW will just exchange talent with both brands?

Kane taunting Rey-Rey with that very familiar red and black mask was awesome. I don’t know if the rights just ran out on the Finger Eleven song or if they just decided to go in another direction, but the remixed original Kane theme is really starting to work for me.

Randy Orton certainly has targeted CM Punk. Now it seems it was not just about the Championship, but about Punk as well. After last week, I didn’t think we would see Orton again until he was ready to come back.

Orton seems to have a way of firing up the young upstarts with his slap of DiBiase to follow his slap of Rhodes last week. I think I’d be careful about slapping Manu though.

I don’t think Santino is 19 times better than The Mountie. Actually when Lawler mentioned Marella being on 24/7, my immediate thought was The Mountie would be there first.

Batista’s willingness to insult JBL earlier certainly played into the main event. Bradshaw is not big on sharing the spotlight and I think he worked so well with Jericho and didn’t care that Jericho got the pin because he was so intent on revenge. Batista overcame that after the bell, but I think he could have easily beaten the weakened Jericho.



Now we get a new wrinkle in this Kane-Mysterio storyline. Who wants to bet they don't know how to end it?I do! I do!

[email2003]

So now the WWE is putting "LIVE" in the lower left coner next to the logo? Is that really needed at all? So when SmackDown comes on this Friday, I'm guessing it'll say "Taped", or "Pre-recorded!" WWE, we know RAW is live every week.:shrug:

[SirLemming]

So now the WWE is putting "LIVE" in the lower left coner next to the logo? Is that really needed at all? So when SmackDown comes on this Friday, I'm guessing it'll say "Taped", or "Pre-recorded!" WWE, we know RAW is live every week.:shrug:
Well, it wasn't last week.

[Wonderwall]

So now the WWE is putting "LIVE" in the lower left coner next to the logo? Is that really needed at all? So when SmackDown comes on this Friday, I'm guessing it'll say "Taped", or "Pre-recorded!" WWE, we know RAW is live every week.:shrug:

Meh, other sports have something that says live all the time. ANnd like SirLemming said, last week's RAW wasn't live.

[Hobbes829]

Michael Cole isn't that bad. He's fine when he shows emotion, but sometimes he comes off as he's trying too hard. I don't see what you felt about Lawler. Lawler still and will always have it.

Orton's promos are decent but are still monotonous.

Adamle needs to go. He has no expression whatsoever and sounds scripted.

Just because a bunch of baby faces loose doesn't make it bad booking.

The match with Bourn/Mysterio vs. Miz/Morrison was horrible. No selling, no psychology. Just a bunch of high spots. Morrison's character is so contrived and unbelievable.

[The Penguin]

I don't see what you felt about Lawler. Lawler still and will always have it.Lawler still has it. And what he has is immature, sophomoric and sounds like it comes from a 13-year-old boy. He's not an analyst, he's a mix of one-liners and boob jokes.


Adamle needs to go. He has no expression whatsoever and sounds scripted.Over the past several weeks, I've been finding that unlike being a commentator, the GM role actually seems to suit him. He has an authority about him (perhaps a cold, calculating authority; explaining his lack of expression), the Ronald Reagan speech really fit him and his previous role as a bumbling commentator makes it all the better because it makes it seem like he was holding back in his previous role. On my 'Jeff Jarrett Scripted Promo Meter', Adamle is maybe a three or a four at most.

[Wonderwall]

Michael Cole isn't that bad. He's fine when he shows emotion, but sometimes he comes off as he's trying too hard. I don't see what you felt about Lawler. Lawler still and will always have it.

The match with Bourn/Mysterio vs. Miz/Morrison was horrible. No selling, no psychology. Just a bunch of high spots. Morrison's character is so contrived and unbelievable.

Cole used to be worse, but he still sucks something awful. Lawler hasn't had anything good to say since the late 90s. I thought that the tag match was fine, a high flying match has its place. And Morrison's character is unbelievable? Really? This is the same company that has a Dead guy, his pyromaniac brother who also at times has powers, an Asian cowboy, a leprechaun, an over the top Italian stereotype, a tycoon, and a savage samoan among its roster. I think Morrison is far from being unrealistic considering all those guys.

[SirLemming]

I actually think Adamle is a fine GM when he isn't randomly lapsing into Evil GM mode. He's a "straight man" and it works.

Jerry Lawler used to be extremely witty, but he's past his prime. I think he's toning down the Diva worship now that WWE is going softer, but unfortunately he hasn't replaced it with better commentary.

Michael Cole was always lame, but I think he's just getting worse as they give him more to do. Makes sense, really. His M.O. is to take a phrase and hammer it into the ground, explain and repeat everything that happens as if the audience is 3 years old, talk more about the upcoming PPV than what's going on in the current match, and generally over-sell everything... but not in the good JR way. And it may not annoy everyone, but he butchers the English language in ways that make me weep.

JR isn't quite his old self either, but he does always do everything with class.

Tazz is pretty inoffensive at this point, neither annoying nor exciting me very much. I'm sad that Mick Foley had to go so soon and doesn't appear to be returning, though. JR might as well be on his own out there. They were shaping up to be a good team.

I also miss a true heel commentator. JBL was the last great one.

I really haven't seen enough of ECW lately to comment on its commentators.

[Wonderwall]

And it may not annoy everyone, but he butchers the English language in ways that make me weep.

"He takes on anyone that challenges for the title. He's the fightingist champion in history!"

Sounds like Cole. ECW actually has a decent commentary. Grisham works a lot better as a commentator than as a backstage personality. I was surprised as he was to me a Cole clone, yet is already better than him. Stryker also seems more suited to be in the booth than in the ring. They don't let be all out heel, but he stands out from all the we love babyface commentators we have on all the shows. i don't know why the E doesn't have any heel guys talking anymore.

[Hobbes829]

Cole used to be worse, but he still sucks something awful. Lawler hasn't had anything good to say since the late 90s. I thought that the tag match was fine, a high flying match has its place. And Morrison's character is unbelievable? Really? This is the same company that has a Dead guy, his pyromaniac brother who also at times has powers, an Asian cowboy, a leprechaun, an over the top Italian stereotype, a tycoon, and a savage samoan among its roster. I think Morrison is far from being unrealistic considering all those guys.

I'm fine with the undertaker gimmick because it works for him and it doesn't come out forced. Morrison is trying too hard to be something. He doesn't have a character. He can't cut a promo to save his life. JBL doesn't come off as contrived either. Any good character has to be essentially an extention of the performer's personality but magnified. THe Miz does that as i'm sure he's just as annoying in real life. Morrison is pretending to be like jim morrison and i'm not buying it.

I have nothing against high flyers except that they don't know how to sell, and can't tell a story. I'm appreciative of great maneuvers but they have a time and a place in the match. Most just do them for the sake of doing them.

[Wonderwall]

I'm fine with the undertaker gimmick because it works for him and it doesn't come out forced. Morrison is trying too hard to be something. He doesn't have a character. He can't cut a promo to save his life. JBL doesn't come off as contrived either. Any good character has to be essentially an extention of the performer's personality but magnified. THe Miz does that as i'm sure he's just as annoying in real life. Morrison is pretending to be like jim morrison and i'm not buying it.

Morrison doesn't come off like he's trying to hard to me at all, he was a year ago but he also was in a position that had more pressure. his promos have gotten better since he's been with Miz. They're stuff on WWE.com is gold. I don't think all gimmics are extensions that are magnified, I just can't see Mark Calaway being anything like Taker in real life.

[Hobbes829]

Are you kidding me, Morrison is horrible on the mic. "Palace of wisdom" what is that? "Shaman of sexy" you don't give yourself a nickname, and proof of that is that it didn't catch on. Taker may not follow the logic of the being an extention but he's like heath as the joker. Heath was nothing like the joker in real life. As far as i know he didn't kill people and cause chaos for his own personal amusement, but he made you believe that the joker did. Mark may not be a supernatural being but it doesn't come of as contrived. No one but Mark could have made the Undertaker gimmick work and last as long as it has. Morrison sounds like he's trying to remember his next line. Sure a lot of the younger guys sound that way too, but him more so than a lot of guys.

[SirLemming]

By the way, upon further reflection I find that there were things about this episode of Raw that I liked, but they didn't necessarily result in good wrestling. I like the continuation of Charlie Haas's gimmick (even though it was his weakest impression yet); I like Randy Orton's new angle; I like the fact that there are a lot of different storylines going on instead of people just standing around and waiting for John Cena to do something; I like that in theory there's a stronger focus on wrestlers and less of a focus on an Evil GM. But overall the show itself didn't benefit much from this, if that makes sense.

[langden alger]

I like that in theory there's a stronger focus on wrestlers and less of a focus on an Evil GM. But overall the show itself didn't benefit much from this, if that makes sense.

it makes a ton of sense for me....i can't stand the all powerful gm concept. i've been waiting for the day when another jack tunney like gm would come around and adamle is i guess the closest thing-a bland figure head that shows up only when needed to move along the fueds /storylines. not a gm who's backstage antics are always the arc of every show or ones that have on-air weddings or fueds with wrestlers and make crazy matches to make life hell for everyone. i just see that as a staple of the old attitude era that has still lingered today and i hope it finally fades out at some point.

[hobbyfan]

Are you kidding me, Morrison is horrible on the mic. "Palace of wisdom" what is that? "Shaman of sexy" you don't give yourself a nickname, and proof of that is that it didn't catch on.

You know what you don't get about Morrison's gimmick? It's based on the late Jim Morrison, lead vocalist of The Doors. Didn't you get the reference to Mizizzle as Morrison's Robbie Krieger last night? Morrison has come a long, long way vocally from when he first came up as a full-time player.

[Hobbes829]

I get it, but it's not him. I'm not feeling it, and i don't think he is either. He's come far, but not far enough. It still sounds like he's trying to remember the next bad line. And don't talk down to me, everyone knows who the doors are. Cody Rhodes and Ted Dibiase, while they are still learning and sound a little rehearsed still sound natural. They're personalities, not gimmicks. John Hennigan (his real name) is not Jim Morrison and should try to be. He should be himself, just magnified.