Attracting minority viewers to cartoons

[Mavericker]

Silverstar thought I was being stereotypical in my "Catillac Cats should be revamped" thread.

So-my question is, what can cartoon-makers do to promote cultural diversity and attract minority viewers to cartoons?

[Rick Jones]

My suggestion would be that they make good cartoons

[Mavericker]

My suggestion would be that they make good cartoons

How do you introduce ethnic characters without making them stereotypical?

[Gokou Ruri]

How do you introduce ethnic characters without making them stereotypical?


My suggestion would be that they make good cartoons Pretty much. Hitting people over the head with a "We're *ethnicity*" approach tends to be forced and unnatural, where as if people focus on making a good show, but the characters just happen to be *ethnicity*, then it will do a lot better.

One of the prime examples I can think of is The Cosby Show. It's one of my favorite sitcoms of all time due to the writing and style. Most of the storylines stemmed simply from family situations and the kids getting into trouble, not from "We're black, and these are the things black people do!". While they did have a few episodes which delved into African American culture, they were handled much more tactfully and better written than other shows I could name. Far too often shows will rely on the characters' ethnicity and stereotypical jokes about said ethnicity to attract an audience rather than the quality of writing itself.

In short, focus on making a good show rather than focusing on making a show about *ethnicity*.

[Antiyonder]

Personally I prefer Family Matters and The Fresh Prince Of Bel Air over The Cosby Show. The Huxtables are just too arrogant for my liking.

And that's another way to avoid sterotypes. Make sure the character is likable.

[Mavericker]

Personally I prefer Family Matters and The Fresh Prince Of Bel Air over The Cosby Show. The Huxtables are just too arrogant for my liking.

And that's another way to avoid sterotypes. Make sure the character is likable.

Was George Lopez's and Margaret Cho's shows popular?

[Shawn Hopkins]

Lopez's was, I think. It ran, like five years.

Cho's got cancelled after it's first season, so no. And she's made a career out of making fun of it in her stage act. She says the producers kept telling her she wasn't acting Asian enough, whatever that means. Then they changed the format to be not a family show but a show about her hanging out with white friends. And then they told her she was too Asian for the new format.

Neither are cartoons, though.

[Antiyonder]

Was George Lopez's and Margaret Cho's shows popular?

I'm not familiar with Margaret Cho, and I'm not sure how popular George Lopez's show is.

But going back to attracting viewers, cultural diversity can and should be touched upon, but there is no need to focus on it 24/7 to attract viewers.

To go another route to illustrate previous comments, the male demograph while not in the minority don't view The Disney Channel. They've been trying to get more males into watching the channel. But I don't really believe that focusing on a female character is as much of a problem that many think, but that they go all sterotypical when presenting their shows.

But to put it simple, networks would get more age, gender and race groups into their show if they would focus more on personality and story rather than what group the character's fit in.

And frankly, I'd think that having a character behave a certain way because of gender, age or race would be offensive. Mainly because it says that your group defines who you are as a person.

[Rick Jones]

Personally I prefer Family Matters and The Fresh Prince Of Bel Air over The Cosby Show. The Huxtables are just too arrogant for my liking.

And that's another way to avoid sterotypes. Make sure the character is likable.
:) I pretty much hate Family Matters to the core

About cartoons, I do like diversity. This is a diverse world, I like to see a face I can identify with once in a while, and I do think it looks better and more interesting to see characters of varying looks. In the long run, I like to think good characterization, good writing and good animation are what win out. I rather watch a good show about a world I don't recognize than a bad show thats targeted specifically at me or my demographic.

[Antiyonder]

I rather watch a good show about a world I don't recognize than a bad show thats targeted specifically at me or my demographic.

Agreed (except for that Family Matter crack:evil: )

To go on my previous example (I'm using a gender example because they are easier to give in better detail), Kim Possible and Totally Spies have been compared a few times. While I find TS to be a fun show, I consider KP to be a favorite for a reason that was given. The reason being that they are able to convey her a person who is feminine without beating that fact over the heads of the audience.

[Light Lucario]

My suggestion would be that they make good cartoons

I agree. Trying to make a show, live-action or a cartoon, too much focused on ethnicity, or trying too hard to push that to the audience's faces, can have a higher danger of failing. Focusing on the writing and developing the characters usually makes a show better. Besides that, most anyone of any ethnic background can be offended by any character of any ethnic in a show. You can't really make a character that makes every single viewer happy. People have different standards and points of view.

[Antiyonder]

Besides, unless otherwise, a reason why some shows target a single demograph is because some writers aren't so ambitious in writing a top notch story. And when you're writing to any demograph, you can hide the bad writing by relying on a demographic gimmick.

[Lavenderpaw]

I agree. Trying to make a show, live-action or a cartoon, too much focused on ethnicity, or trying too hard to push that to the audience's faces, can have a higher danger of failing. Focusing on the writing and developing the characters usually makes a show better. Besides that, most anyone of any ethnic background can be offended by any character of any ethnic in a show. You can't really make a character that makes every single viewer happy. People have different standards and points of view.

Some shows should just hang a sign from the person's neck (like that Trisha girl off of Family Guy) saying "I'm not white." If you focus too much on the race of a person,you never really get to know that person as a character and individual.

For example,not every Chinese man is an old kung fu master. :shrug:

[Blackstar]

So-my question is, what can cartoon-makers do to promote cultural diversity and attract minority viewers to cartoons?

First of all, while it's not essentially a bad thing to want to "attract minority viewers", you don't (or shouldn't) want to attract minorities exclusively. Ideally, one should want to attract ALL viewers, white and non-white alike.

Second of all, Minorities don't need to be brought back to cartoons because they never left. Ethnics do watch cartoons. They never stopped. I don't where you got the idea that minorities stopped watching cartoons, but that is wildly inaccurate. Kids don't even see colors until they reach a certain age and are forced to do so by a racist society. Not everyone is hung up on race the way that you seem to be. Myself, I'm a person first and a race second.

When I was a kid, I loved Hanna Barbera cartoons on Saturday morning and the Charlie Brown specials that aired on CBS in prime-time, and so did other kids. We ALL enjoyed them equally. Caucasians, African-Americans, Native Americans, Asians. All of us. Black kids didn't enjoy them any less or more than anyone else. Sure, there was Franklin, the black kid, but personality-wise, he was a cipher. When we played Charlie Brown, nobody, not even the black kids, wanted to be Franklin.

Yes, I would indeed like to see more African-American characters on animated programs, but not if it's just going to be as a bunch of broad caricatures and over-the-top ethnic stereotypes. I'd prefer to see African-American characters being portrayed as regular people, and not just rappers, fly girls and jocks. I would also like to see more different ethnicites peacefully co-existing with one another. I would personally love it if we got to see more interracial couples and families on TV that don't constantly force you to acknowledge the fact that they are ethnically mixed. Ideally, I'd like to see African-American characters and interracial families and couples treated normally, no better or worse or even differently than everyone else. Including some races and cultures while excluding others is a form of racism, and you can call it a rose if you want to, but it still stinks. Furthermore, representing a single type of ethnicity to represent an entire culture (e.g., using hip-hoppers and rappers to represent all African-Americans) is cultural stereotyping, which does not equate to political correctness. Using gansta rappers to represent blacks is just as stereotypical as using mobsters to represent Italians. We're never going to get anywhere as a species until we start looking past colors and ethnicities and start treating everyone equally.

The best way to get anyone to watch a series, animated or otherwise is to made it good and entertaining. If it's an entertaining program with likable characters and a compelling story line, I'll watch it, regardless of what race or culture the characters who appear in it are. Ethnicity does not figure into the equation at all.

[Silverstar]

How do you introduce ethnic characters without making them stereotypical?

Easy. Portray them as people, not as ethnic or cultural stereotypes. Place the focus on who the characters are, not on what color they are. A good character is one who draws you in by merits of who they are, not by constantly throwing their ethnicity in your face.

I'm all for diversity, but I don't believe in tokensim-that is, just sticking in non-white cipher characters with no personality other than the color of their skin, and I'm diametrically opposed to generalized stereotypes being used to represent an entire race.

Though I don't like to air dirty laundry from a separate thread (and forgive me in advance for doing so, mods), your suggestion to stick in hip-hop urban characters onto a show to represent blacks isn't an example of cultural diversity--it's a prime example of stereotyping. You're acting under the assumption that all blacks are from the 'hood, speak broken English and are into hip-hop music, and would therefore be flattered by such a depiction. Some blacks would, but a lot of them would not. There are plenty of African-Americans who aren't street, who speak the King's English and aren't full-on into rap, and these people wouldn't see hip-hop characters as being reflective of them; the assumption that all African-Americans can relate to or are flattered by such caricatures as MC Skat Kat or the California Raisins is a pat generalization which couldn't be more erroneous. Not all blacks are hip-hoppers, tough thugs or athletes. They are as diverse as any other race or culture. The same way not all Asians are math and computer geniuses who know kung-fu, and not all whites are prudish squares, stuck-up Valley Girls or surfer dudes.

Non-white people are people, just like everyone else. They don't necessarily want to be treated gingerly or special, and a lot of people don't like to be constantly reminded of their color. I for one don't go out of my way to look for color in cartoons; it doesn't really matter to me what race characters are, all that matters to me is whether I enjoy them or not. Instead of worrying about how to draw in minority viewers, the concern should be how to draw in as many viewers as possible, regardless of what color they are or where they come from.

I personally feel that constantly bringing up the differences between the races only succeeds in widening the chasm between them. Writers should portray characters as people first and their colors should take a back seat to who they are as characters.

I really think that you need to to stop putting so much emphasis on race; start looking beyond colors and stop judging all facets of humanity by these media-imposed stereotypes of who and what ethnic groups supposedly are. It's not cool to pigeon-hole people like that; not all black folks are like this and not all white folks are like that. The best shows are the ones which can be enjoyed by all--not just by blacks or just by whites, not just by young hipsters or old ethnics--but by everybody. We humans are never going to evolve as a species until we learn to stop drawing battle lines in the sand and start viewing each other as simply people.


There. I'm off the soapbox now. ;)

[Shawn Hopkins]

Some shows should just hang a sign from the person's neck (like that Trisha girl off of Family Guy) saying "I'm not white." If you focus too much on the race of a person,you never really get to know that person as a character and individual.

For example,not every Chinese man is an old kung fu master. :shrug:

They aren't? Maybe that's why I keep getting arrested for challenging them to mortal combat and yelling my kung fu is better than their kung fu.

[AlgeaX]

How do you introduce ethnic characters without making them stereotypical?

Just focus on making them as interesting and multifaceted as possible and don't worry to much about race. Don't try to write a black character, write a complex character then make him black.

One of the best examples of a well written black man in TV was to my mind, Captain Benjamin Sisko from DS9. The reason he worked so well was because the writers didn't set out constantly remind the audience that he was black. Instead they set out to write a complex and interesting character.

Sisko was a widower, a single-father, a baseball fanatic, a war veteran and a religious icon. It wasn't until the sixth season that they decided to do an episode focusing on his race and that involved him being hurled back in time to the 1950s.

[Taekmkm]

I remember Claudia from Macross/Robotech. She was just a character, so is Bobby from Frontier of the latest saga. (Both Black.)

In short, don't make them special. Then make them a real character.

[creativerealms]

I think of Eliza Maza as a good example (Gargoyles is full of good examples.) It did seem she was there as a cultural diversity but the only one really shoved in our face was that she was a human when the main characters were not and even that was not done bad. She was there to be the Gargoyles connection to the human world, the fact that she was multiple minorities did not really seem to matter at first. And also worked on an extra level because the gargoyles did not see humans of different color as a different race but saw all of them as human.

All that mattered about Eliza was that she was a strong person, a good cop and friend, loyal and understanding. That she was a good person was that mattered not that she was half African American and half Native American, those were just there with an exception of a couple episodes in the second half of season two.

On another note sometimes I have knoticed that a character who was originally a minority was changed, such as Baxter Stockman becoming white in the old TMNT cartoon. I wounder if it was because they not want complains that the main black man in the show was a villain. Or maybe there is nothing behind the change except wanting to and I'm just looking at it too deeply.

[warnerbroman]

How do you introduce ethnic characters without making them stereotypical?
yeah it too stereotypical or too bland and look like an Americanized "sellout"

[Silverstar]

Another good example of an non-stereotypical ethnic animated character is Taranee Cook from W.I.T.C.H.. Taranee, the Guardian of Fire, was bookish, shy, awkward, wore glasses and was ironically afraid of fire at first.

She was also half-black, half-Asian.

That's right, she was a black girl who wasn't a tough chick, a jock, a DJ or a rapper. And she was a the product of an interracial marriage. Moreover, her Asian mother was a judge; she didn't know martial arts and she didn't speak in fortune cookie phrases. Nor did the shows' writers feel the need to hammer the point that Taranee was mixed over the viewers' heads constantly; it was just something that you noticed.

Similarly, Layla from 4Kids' Winx Club is also a non-offensive black character. Sure, she's candid, brave and adventurous, but her speech isn't peppered with a bunch of "You go, girl!"s and "Oh no he di'int!"s. Layla isn't ghetto-fabulous and she doesn't love to rap. Ironically, the group's Asian member, Musa, is the hip-hop girl, not Layla.

Furthermore, the late Marvel comic Generation X liked to play against cutural stereotypes: the California mall brat (Jubilee) was Asian, the haughty rich girl (M) was a black Algerian (whose father was white), the good-natured easy-going guy (Synch) was black, etc.

Heck, even Steve Urkel, jackhammer annoying though he may have been, was a breakthrough character: a science-loving, accordian playing uber-geek who just happened to be African-American.

My point: all of these characters were people first and ethnicities second. Good effective characters are not defined by their color, and they don't appeal to just one particular ethnic group exclusively.

[warnerbroman]

Heck, even Steve Urkel, jackhammer annoying though he may have been, was a breakthrough character: a science-loving, accordian playing uber-geek who just happened to be African-American.. untill he became stefan urkell

[Gokou Ruri]

Another good example of an non-stereotypical ethnic animated character is Taranee Cook from W.I.T.C.H.. Taranee, the Guardian of Fire, was bookish, shy, awkward, wore glasses and was ironically afraid of fire at first.

She was also half-black, half-Asian.

That's right, she was a black girl who wasn't a tough chick, a jock, a DJ or a rapper. And she was a the product of an interracial marriage. Moreover, her Asian mother was a judge; she didn't know martial arts and she didn't speak in fortune cookie phrases. Nor did the shows' writers feel the need to hammer the point that Taranee was mixed over the viewers' heads constantly; it was just something that you noticed. There's also the fact she herself is in an interracial relationship, as her boyfriend, Nigel Ashcroft, is white; and their skin colors are not made a focus of it.

She's one of the best examples I can think of.

[Blackstar]

To reiterate what's already been said here:

There's nothing wrong with promoting cultural diversity in animation, but being racially conscious to the point when we're assigning races to anthropomorphic animals is taking it to feverish extremes. Suggesting that the Cadillac Cats from Heathcliff are white Americans is just as silly as implying that Snoopy is Caucasian because he has white fur or that Daffy Duck is African American because he has black feathers. If that were truly the case, then that would also mean that one of the famous toon icons in the world, Mickey Mouse is also an African American because underneath Mickey's yellow shoes and white gloves are...black feet and black hands! :eek:

There are only 3 actual races on the planet-Africans, Asians and Caucasians-and so any animated character who deosn't fall into 1 of these categories is either a hybrid of all 3 races (Latinos, for example) or is completely irrelevant to the race issue, so Speedy Gonzales does not count as a racial stereotype because Mexican is not a race. It's a nationality.

Sometimes, we need to just relax and not make an issue out of everything. Every cartoon doesn't have to promote racial or social awareness. Sometimes cartoons are just meant to be fun. Yes, that's right. You can just be entertained by a cartoon and not get up on a soapbox about issues of the day. Sometimes a cartoon is just a cartoon.

[Mavericker]

To reiterate what's already been said here:

There's nothing wrong with promoting cultural diversity in animation, but being racially conscious to the point when we're assigning races to anthropomorphic animals is taking it to feverish extremes. Suggesting that the Cadillac Cats from Heathcliff are white Americans is just as silly as implying that Snoopy is Caucasian because he has white fur or that Daffy Duck is African American because he has black feathers. If that were truly the case, then that would also mean that one of the famous toon icons in the world, Mickey Mouse is also an African American because underneath Mickey's yellow shoes and white gloves are...black feet and black hands! :eek:

There are only 3 actual races on the planet-Africans, Asians and Caucasians-and so any animated character who deosn't fall into 1 of these categories is either a hybrid of all 3 races (Latinos, for example) or is completely irrelevant to the race issue, so Speedy Gonzales does not count as a racial stereotype because Mexican is not a race. It's a nationality.

Sometimes, we need to just relax and not make an issue out of everything. Every cartoon doesn't have to promote racial or social awareness. Sometimes cartoons are just meant to be fun. Yes, that's right. You can just be entertained by a cartoon and not get up on a soapbox about issues of the day. Sometimes a cartoon is just a cartoon.


Speedy Gonzales is a Mexican caricature.

Those crows in Dumbo were black caricatures which a lot of people found offensive, esp. since one of them was named Jim Crow.

M.C. Skat Kat and pals are black caricatures.

They don't have races-they are ethnic CARICATURES-there's nothing wrong with that-as long as it isn't racist.

[Antiyonder]

Speedy Gonzales is a Mexican caricature.

Those crows in Dumbo were black caricatures which a lot of people found offensive, esp. since one of them was named Jim Crow.

M.C. Skat Kat and pals are black caricatures.

They don't have races-they are ethnic CARICATURES-there's nothing wrong with that-as long as it isn't racist.

You're missing the point. Characters don't need to be Caricatures to attract all demographs. They just need to be likable and/or interesting.

[Silverstar]

Speedy Gonzales is a Mexican caricature.

Once again, 'Mexican' isn't a race, it's a nationality.


Those crows in Dumbo were black caricatures which a lot of people found offensive, esp. since one of them was named Jim Crow.So why are you citing the crows in Dumbo as a defense of your argument?


M.C. Skat Kat and pals are black caricatures.

They don't have races-they are ethnic CARICATURES-there's nothing wrong with that-as long as it isn't racist.And a lot of people DO find all of those characters racist. Hence why it's best to simply avoid racial/ethnic caricatures altogether. Like Antiyonder said, characters don't have to be ethnic caricatures in order to attract a particular demographic--they just need to be entertaining or interesting. A lot of people don't care whether their particular ethnicity is reflected in a cartoon; they just want to be entertained.

In order to find an audience, a cartoons should strive to attract as many viewers as possible. All races, all creeds, all colors. Limiting your show or characters' appeal to only one race or ethnic group only restricts yourself to one audience and alienates all others, and shows of that nature tend not to last long. Once more, the best shows are the ones with universal appeal to EVERYONE.


I mean no offense, but I really think that you're too hung up on race, and I honestly don't get why attracting minorities is such a big deal to you. The true worth of a character is their actual character and entertainment factor, not their ethnicity. Color should be nothing more than a side-thought when developing characters.

[Mavericker]

Once again, 'Mexican' isn't a race, it's a nationality.

So why are you citing the crows in Dumbo as a defense of your argument?

And a lot of people DO find all of those characters racist. Hence why it's best to simply avoid racial/ethnic caricatures altogether. Like Antiyonder said, characters don't have to be ethnic caricatures in order to attract a particular demographic--they just need to be entertaining or interesting. A lot of people don't care whether their particular ethnicity is reflected in a cartoon; they just want to be entertained.

In order to find an audience, a cartoons should strive to attract as many viewers as possible. All races, all creeds, all colors. Limiting your show or characters' appeal to only one race or ethnic group only restricts yourself to one audience and alienates all others, and shows of that nature tend not to last long. Once more, the best shows are the ones with universal appeal to EVERYONE.


I mean no offense, but I really think that you're too hung up on race, and I honestly don't get why attracting minorities is such a big deal to you. The true worth of a character is their actual character and entertainment factor, not their ethnicity. Color should be nothing more than a side-thought when developing characters.

Mexicans are Latino/Hispanic.

Speedy Gonzales is a Hispanic/Latino caricature.

Actually when Speedy was introduced was more of a RACIST caricature-they toned it down:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Early-Speedy.jpg

Speedy's debut in Cat-Tails for Two.

[Silverstar]

Mexicans are Latino/Hispanic.

Latino/Hispanic isn't a race either. Again, that's a nationality. There are only 3 human races on this planet: Africans, Asians and Caucasians. Anything else is just a combination thereof. Hispanics are a hybrid of all 3 races.


Actually when Speedy was introduced was more of a RACIST caricature-they toned it down:

That, along with your mention of Dumbo's crows earlier, only proves everyone else's point- that characters' ethnicities need to be DE-emphasized in order for them to have universal appeal. You've basically defeated your own argument.

[Blackstar]

Speedy Gonzales was also banished to obscurity in recent years for reasons of being Politically Incorrect. And so by bringing up Speedy, you've just proven that making cartoon characters too ethnic is not a good idea. Thank you for playing.

And again, Mexican is a nationality, not a race, so Speedy couldn't have been racist. Only stereotypically offensive.

Mavericker, I'm still waiting for you tell us why you think that minorities need to be attracted to cartoons. Where did you hear that minorities stopped watching cartoons? I've honestly never heard that.

Even if that's true (which personally I don't believe it is), the only solution for it was said back on page 1: make good cartoons and people (all people) will watch them. Problem solved.

[Mavericker]

Speedy Gonzales was also banished to obscurity in recent years for reasons of being Politically Incorrect.

And again, Mexican is a nationality, not a race.

Mavericker, I'm still waiting for you tell us why you think that minorities need to be attracted to cartoons. Where did you hear that minorities stopped watching cartoons? I've honestly never heard that.

Even if that's true (which personally I don't believe it is), the only solution for it was said back on page 1: make good cartoons and people (all people) will watch them. problem solved.

Everyone in the US isn't Caucasian-esp. not blonde and blue-eyed.

I didn't say that PEOPLE OF COLOR shouldn't watch or haven't stopped watching cartoons-but they should have characters they they can relate to-give the kids cultural pride.

Remember Fat Albert? There was Hammerman and the Kid and Play cartoon from the '90s.

First there was the Amazing Chan Clan. More recently they have the Jackie Chan cartoons, American Dragon, Juniper Lee and other Asian-themed cartoons.

The only Latin-themed cartoon I can think of is Mucha Libre-the cartoon about Mexican wrestling.

It's like going to other countries-nothing is wrong with giving those little girls Barbie dolls to play with but they should give them dolls that look like THEM- give the African ones black Barbies, the Asian ones Asian ones, the Hispanic/Latina girls Latino/Hispanic ones, etc.

They should make Aborigine Barbies for the Aboriginies in Austrailia to play with.

M.C. Skat Kat and the Stray Mob isn't THAT much different than the stuff they show on BET.

What's wrong about the Boondocks? Proud Family? I never saw Bebe's Kids.

[Blackstar]

Everyone in the US isn't Caucasian-esp. not blonde and blue-eyed.

Who said that they were? However, Caucasians do reside in this country. They're just as meaningful as any other race. And we see more than just blond and blue-eyed people on TV, so I really don't know what point you're trying to make now.


The only Latin-themed cartoon I can think of is Mucha Libre-the cartoon about Mexican wrestling.

It's iMucha Lucha!, actually, and that was basically a farce.


It's like going to other countries-nothing is wrong with giving those little girls Barbie dolls to play with but they should give them dolls that look like THEM- give the African ones black Barbies, the Asian ones Asian ones, the Hispanic/Latina girls Latino/Hispanic ones, etc.Mattel already has an African-American Barbie doll, and who's to say that they don't make dolls of other ethnicities as well?


What's wrong about the Boondocks? Proud Family?Nobody said that anything was wrong with The Boondocks or The Proud Family. More to the point, no one mentioned those shows at all, so I don't know why you brought them up. I don't even know what your point is anymore.


I never saw Bebe's Kids.I did and it sucked. I hated it and I'm African-American. No one is swelling over with pride over Bebe's Kids. Trust me on that. Why not mention Soul Plane while you're at it?


M.C. Skat Kat and the Stray Mob isn't THAT much different than the stuff they show on BET.I wouldn't know. I don't watch BET.


Sorry, but this is starting to strike me as funny now. Mavericker, have you ever believed in anything not strongly? You really need to relax and not such a big deal out of everything.

[Mavericker]

It's iMucha Lucha!, actually, and that was basically a farce.

Mattel already has an African-American Barbie doll, and who's to say that they don't make dolls of other ethnicities as well?

Sorry, but this is starting to strike me as funny now. Mavericker, have you ever believed in anything not strongly? You really need to relax and not such a big deal out of everything.

I know they do but do they make a black African Barbie doll?

There's nothing wrong with liking white characters either but everything DOESN'T have to be about them.

Do they make cartoons that take place in Africa?

[Silverstar]

There's nothing wrong with liking white characters either but everything DOESN'T have to be about them.

Everything isn't about them; nobody said it was. It seems to me that you're just ranting now.


I know they do (make an African-American Barbie doll) but do they make a black African Barbie doll?

They're the same thing, dude. They also make Asian-American and Latin-American dolls. Again, what's your point?


There was Hammerman and the Kid and Play cartoon from the '90s.

I don't think Hammerman is looked upon as a source of pride by anyone, least of all the people who worked on it. I don't even think MC Hammer is proud of Hammerman. And who even remembers that Kid 'N' Play cartoon, let alone cites it as an example of a great black show? It's only memorable feature was that it was distinctly forgettable.

OK, you've officially lost me now. Any shred of credibility that this thread may have had has been completely blown out of the water. I'm done with this.

[Blackstar]

Do they make cartoons that take place in Africa?

Who's "they"? And in Africa, they probably do, just like in Italy, there are cartoons that take place in Italy. But why would a show about African-AMERICANS take place in Africa? African-Americans are American born citizens of African decent. Did you honestly not know that?

[Mavericker]

Everything isn't about them; nobody said it was. It seems to me that you're just ranting now.

Why do they find it neccesary to include one token character in a lot of cartoons? Why can't there be more than one?

In Futurama Amy Wong was the token Asian and Hermes the token black.
In Family Guy Cleveland is the token black.
In Josie and the Pussycats there was one black girl.
In some shows they have a token Arab/Indian or a token Hispanic.


In Africa, they probably do, just like in Italy, there are cartoons that take place in Italy. But why would a show about African-AMERICANS take place in Africa?


No-why don't they make an American show that takes place in Africa, or release an anime to the US that takes place in Africa? I saw a list of anime that takes place in Africa somewhere.

[The Huntsman]

With all due respect, having characters that “represent” a certain demographic isn’t going to make that demographic tune in and watch an animated program. When all is said and done, people will watch an animated program that is entertaining to watch, regardless of the diversity of the cast. In other words, you don’t have to be a member of the Blue Man Group in order to like watching “The Smurfs”. I encourage diversity just as much as the next guy, but you’re acting like all an animated program needs to do in order to attract minority viewers is have minority characters. That’s not true. Period. It’s all about whether or not an animated program is entertaining to watch.

[Silverstar]

With all due respect, having characters that “represent” a certain demographic isn’t going to make that demographic tune in and watch an animated program. When all is said and done, people will watch an animated program that is entertaining to watch, regardless of the diversity of the cast. In other words, you don’t have to be a member of the Blue Man Group in order to like watching “The Smurfs”. I encourage diversity just as much as the next guy, but you’re acting like all an animated program needs to do in order to attract minority viewers is have minority characters. That’s not true. Period. It’s all about whether or not an animated program is entertaining to watch.

QFT.

If that wasn't clear enough for you, Mavericker, then I don't what can be.

I may request a lock for this thread, 'cause the point has already been made and now it's just getting ranty.

[Mavericker]

QFT.

If that wasn't clear enough for you, Mavericker, then I don't what can be.

I may request a lock for this thread, 'cause the point has already been made and now it's just getting ranty.

Here's a list of the anime that takes place in Africa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:African_anime_and_manga_characters

[Anthonynotes]

As a Black guy, the others above I agree with---I'd like a diverse range of characters who're well-written. And no, I'm not a rap fan or particularly hip (and I hate Family Matters/Urkel). :-p

-B.

[Mavericker]

As a Black guy, the others above I agree with---I'd like a diverse range of characters who're well-written. And no, I'm not a rap fan or particularly hip (and I hate Family Matters/Urkel). :-p

-B.

Me too. How many Asians and Hispanics here like the way Asian and Hispanics are portrayed in cartoons?

[warnerbroman]

As a Black guy, the others above I agree with---I'd like a diverse range of characters who're well-written. And no, I'm not a rap fan or particularly hip (and I hate Family Matters/Urkel). :-p

-B.I stae the same thing but I love Fresh Prince

but reading the posts here is making me sweat...:sweat:

now some cartoons were locked away cuz the looked offensive but were not racist

poor So White the hottest loony toon back then

[Antiyonder]

How many Asians and Hispanics here like the way Asian and Hispanics are portrayed in cartoons?

As long as the characters are likable and interesting then portrayal is not really worth dwelling on.


I'd like a diverse range of characters who're well-written. And no, I'm not a rap fan or particularly hip (and I hate Family Matters/Urkel). :-p

:-p. That'll teach you not to tease me;) .

[Zorak Masaki]

I'd say JLU introduced ethnic characters quite well. They had blacks, indians, mexicans, and brazilians, yet they were all treated with respect and never treated as a stereotype or token character.

[Mavericker]

I'd say JLU introduced ethnic characters quite well. They had blacks, indians, mexicans, and brazilians, yet they were all treated with respect and never treated as a stereotype or token character.


No Asian characters?

I think Julibee and Lady Deathstrike on the animated X-Men were okay.

[Racattack!Force]

Um, I'm not sure what you are really trying to get with this Mavericker. A cartons doesn't have to have every nationality/culture under the face of the sun to attract a certain demographic to be enjoyed. The characters just have to enjoyable, along with the show itself. Ethnicity is the last thing I'd look for in a cartoon. If a character is Asian/Black/Latio, then whoopdee-stinking doo. :sweat: I don't care as long as they don't beat us over the head with the fact they're a minority. :shrug:

[AlgeaX]

No Asian characters?

They had Dr. Light.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/bios/drlight/01.jpg

[Mavericker]

Um, I'm not sure what you are really trying to get with this Mavericker. A cartons doesn't have to have every nationality/culture under the face of the sun to attract a certain demographic to be enjoyed. The characters just have to enjoyable, along with the show itself. Ethnicity is the last thing I'd look for in a cartoon. If a character is Asian/Black/Latio, then whoopdee-stinking doo. :sweat: I don't care as long as they don't beat us over the head with the fact they're a minority. :shrug:

Nothing is wrong with diversity and I don't have a problem as long as it isn't offensive.

Minoriteam was more of a show that made fun or racial/ethnic stereotypes as was Boondocks.

I should have said people-of-color. There are more people-of-color in the world that white folks.

Minority has somewhat of a negative connotation.

[Light Lucario]

With all due respect, having characters that “represent” a certain demographic isn’t going to make that demographic tune in and watch an animated program. When all is said and done, people will watch an animated program that is entertaining to watch, regardless of the diversity of the cast. In other words, you don’t have to be a member of the Blue Man Group in order to like watching “The Smurfs”. I encourage diversity just as much as the next guy, but you’re acting like all an animated program needs to do in order to attract minority viewers is have minority characters. That’s not true. Period. It’s all about whether or not an animated program is entertaining to watch.

This.

Making a cartoon more ethnically friendly is not the point. Some shows have tried to do that and end up failing for pushing that in the audience's faces. Making the show and characters interesting should be a lot more important than attracting minorities.

With all kindness and respect Mavericker, I also don't understand where you've gotten this idea that minorities don't watch cartoons. That hasn't been the case as far as I know. I also don't understand why you continue to continue with this argument when practically everyone else in this thread, especially Blackstar and Silverstar, have made points as to why having ethnically acceptable characters in a cartoon isn't important when attracting viewers.


Nothing is wrong with diversity and I don't have a problem as long as it isn't offensive.

Minoriteam was more of a show that made fun or racial/ethnic stereotypes as was Boondocks.

I should have said people-of-color. There are more people-of-color in the world that white folks.

Minority has somewhat of a negative connotation.

I don't believe anyone said that there was something wrong with diversity. I feel the same way as Tednut does with ethnicity being the last thing I look at when I'm watching a cartoon. I've noticed that most of the examples you've used for offensive ethnicity in cartoons are from like at least fourty to fifty years ago. That's not really recent. I don't think anyone else mentioned Minoriteam or Boondocks. There's also nothing wrong wtih saying minority as I know.

I hope this thread can end soon since we've all been basically saying the same points to you, but you don't seem to see where we're coming from.

[Mavericker]

This.

Making a cartoon more ethnically friendly is not the point. Some shows have tried to do that and end up failing for pushing that in the audience's faces. Making the show and characters interesting should be a lot more important than attracting minorities.

With all kindness and respect Mavericker, I also don't understand where you've gotten this idea that minorities don't watch cartoons. That hasn't been the case as far as I know. I also don't understand why you continue to continue with this argument when practically everyone else in this thread, especially Blackstar and Silverstar, have made points as to why having ethnically acceptable characters in a cartoon isn't important when attracting viewers.



I don't believe anyone said that there was something wrong with diversity. I feel the same way as Tednut does with ethnicity being the last thing I look at when I'm watching a cartoon. I've noticed that most of the examples you've used for offensive ethnicity in cartoons are from like at least fourty to fifty years ago. That's not really recent. I don't think anyone else mentioned Minoriteam or Boondocks. There's also nothing wrong wtih saying minority as I know.

I hope this thread can end soon since we've all been basically saying the same points to you, but you don't seem to see where we're coming from.



I NEVER said people-of-color or ethnic minorities don't watch cartoons-I don't know where you got that from.

[Racattack!Force]

I NEVER said people-of-color or ethnic minorities don't watch cartoons-I don't know where you got that from.
Well...

So-my question is, what can cartoon-makers do to promote cultural diversity and attract minority viewers to cartoons?

Your starting post makes it seem like you think that people-of-color rarely (if at all) watch cartoons. :sweat: I know you didn't really mean that, but people could think you meant that. :shrug:

[AlgeaX]

I'm all for diversity in cartoons but there's no point in throwing bland cyphers to fill some kind of quota, or worse still racial caricatures. We need more Elisa Mazas and Ben Siskos.

[Mavericker]

Well...


Your starting post makes it seem like you think that people-of-color rarely (if at all) watch cartoons. :sweat: I know you didn't really mean that, but people could think you meant that. :shrug:

I worded that wrong-I should have said "what can cartoon makers do to attract MORE people-of-color viewers to cartoons?"

They had some Static Shock! episodes that took place in Africa. That was good.

[Racattack!Force]

They had some Static Shock! episodes that took place in Africa. That was good.
Whether a good takes place in the United States, Europe, South America, Asia, or where ever never mattered to me on a grand scale. I just care if they are able to make the place interesting and it truly helps in telling the story. That is, if the place matters in the story. I don't want characters going halfway around the world to have some "adventure" that they just could have done at home.

[Mavericker]

Whether a good takes place in the United States, Europe, South America, Asia, whether never mattered to me on a grand scale. I just care if they are able to make the place interesting and it truly helps in telling the story. That is, if the place matters in the story. I don't want characters going halfway around the world do have some "adventure" that they just could have done at home.

Telling stories that take place outside the US can help debunk the preconceptions Americans have about people in other countries.

Did you like Captain Planet?

[Racattack!Force]

Telling stories that take place outside the US can help debunk the preconceptions Americans have about people in other countries.

Did you like Captain Planet?
True, it does really help. After all, the more people that know Africa isn't just a bunch of little villages with grass/wooden huts, surrounded by animals, the better. :sweat: And as for Captain Planet...I don't really remember. I watched a bit when I was 5, but I don't remember anything from those episodes. And I don't feel like waking up at 5 in the morning to watch it on Boomerang. :shrug:

[Mavericker]

True, it does really help. After all, the more people that know Africa isn't just a bunch of little villages with grass/wooden huts, surrounded by animals, the better. :sweat: And as for Captain Planet...I don't really remember. I watched a bit when I was 5, but I don't remember anything from those episodes. And I don't feel like waking up at 5 in the morning to watch it on Boomerang. :shrug:

Exactly-all Scotspeople don't wear kilts or have red hair and all Irish don't wear green or drink beer or smoke pipes. All Austrailians don't dress like they are roughin' it in the outback, like Crocodile Dundee. All Mexicans don't wear sombreros and panchos.

[Silverstar]

Exactly-all Scotspeople don't wear kilts or have red hair and all Irish don't wear green or drink beer or smoke pipes. All Austrailians don't dress like they are roughin' it in the outback, like Crocodile Dundee. All Mexicans don't wear sombreros and panchos.

Nobody said that they did.

And once again: Irish, Scottish, Australians and Mexicans are not races. They are...say it with me now....Nationalities.

But how does any of this validate your point, whatever your point is? 'Cause I really don't know.

[Mavericker]

Nobody said that they did.

And once again: Irish, Scottish, Australians and Mexicans are not races. They are...say it with me now....Nationalities.

But how does any of this validate your point, whatever your point is? 'Cause I really don't know.

I KNOW that-I don't know why you find it necessary to keep saying that.

We are discussing ETHNICITY. :mad:

I was talking about how they should portray people in foreign countries.

[Blackstar]

I don't know why you find it necessary to keep saying that.

And I don't know why you insist on keeping this thread going. You're original question was answered back on page 1. I'm calling for a lock on this thread.

[warnerbroman]

also when people hear the word "stereotype" the automaticly thind bad there are some that are complimentary

[Mavericker]

also when people hear the word "stereotype" the automaticly thind bad there are some that are complimentary

I have no problem if they don't make the characters look stupid.

[Light Lucario]

I NEVER said people-of-color or ethnic minorities don't watch cartoons-I don't know where you got that from.

You're basic point of this thread is asking how to get more minority viewers to watch cartoons. That alone leads me and other people to think that you were saying that said minority viewers don't really watch cartoons.

Not to be rude, but I'm honestly getting tired of going around in circles with you in this thread. As I'm sure other people here are too. Hopefully, this thread will be closed off since we're getting absolutely nowhere.

[Mavericker]

You're basic point of this thread is asking how to get more minority viewers to watch cartoons. That alone leads me and other people to think that you were saying that said minority viewers don't really watch cartoons.

Not to be rude, but I'm honestly getting tired of going around in circles with you in this thread. As I'm sure other people here are too. Hopefully, this thread will be closed off since we're getting absolutely nowhere.

I am sorry for misleading people-I should have worded the question differently.

I agree with the points made-I was trying to get to a lot of those points.

[Bloody Marquis]

The best way to attract minority viewers? Just make a good cartoon. It doesn't need to be politically correct or diverse or anything like that. All that matters is if it's good or not.

[Mavericker]

The best way to attract minority viewers? Just make a good cartoon. It doesn't need to be politically correct or diverse or anything like that. All that matters is if it's good or not.

I'm surprised they deemed Speedy Gonzalez non-PC. A lot of folks like him-there's a lot more offensive characters out there.

[Joe]

Actually when Speedy was introduced was more of a RACIST caricature-they toned it down

No, Speedy was redesigned because Chuck Jones preferred cuter designs for his characters. The same reason Freling redesigned Tweety Bird. It had nothing to due with race.

Studios didn't take Latino stereotypes into consideration until the 1960s. Before then, the studios had enough trouble following the edict of the much more powerful Hayes Office to concern themselves about such things.

[Mynd Hed]

I'd say this thread has run its course. A consensus has been reached, and further discussion strikes me as redundant.

People, the "Report" button is there to bring moderator attention to a situation that you feel is causing problems. It is NOT there as a cudgel to hold over the heads of posters you don't like. Please do not post things like "I'm reporting you" or "I'm calling for this thread to be closed" in open forum. Those sorts of suggestions are welcome, but should be kept a private matter between yourselves and the mod. Otherwise, to be honest, you're not helping, you're just bullying.