Batman forever vs batman and robin

[JohnStewart-GL]

Which movie do you think was better. And why.
personally i like Forever a little bit better.
heres what i liked and disliked about both
Batman Forever
likes:
1.Val Kilmer,i think he was a great Bruce Wayne.
2.Robin i think he was cool
3.Tommy Jones as Two face
4.Sugar and Spice. They were so hot. especial Spice.
5.Nicole Kidman
dislikes:
1. Jim Carey
2. That Gossip Gurdy chick was really annoying.

Batman and Robin
likes:
1.Robin
2.Alicia Silverstone as Batgirl. she was so sexy.
3.Uma Thurman she was a babe
4.Arnold as Freeze
5.Vivica Fox.
dislikes:
1.Bane
2.Gossip Gurdy. I hated that ***** more the second time around
3.stupid puns
4.Reinventing Barbara's background

So what about you guys.

[The Guitar Slayer]

I thought that Batman Forever was the superior movie of the two. I do think they should've cast Robin a lot younger though. Val Kilmer looks young for his 40-odd years, so casting Robin in his mid-twenties threw a couple of people. Kilmer should've dyed his hair black to fit the character more. He looks more like my concept of Bruce Wayne than Clooney or Keaton. Nobody can top Keaton's intensity, but Kilmer nailed Batman's human side, especially in some of those cut scenes I've read about.

There were problems with the script and, of course, our favorite director in the whole universe :rolleyes: . I think, like a lot of people, if the director was different, Forever could have been a really good Batman flic, not just an "okay." Kidman's character got on my nerves a bit, so she'd get a minor rewrite. Carey would've been a better Joker than a Riddler. Riddler should've been a more cerebral, refined character rather than your typical "gone postal" employee.

Batman Forever is a hard movie to place. Some people think of Batman and Robin as an update to the 1960s series. The Burton films obviously belong together. But what about Forever?

Peace and Rock 'n' Roll

The Guitar Slayer :cool:

[The Game]

There's no competition. Batman Forever had its flaws, but the bad parts of Batman and Robin are the same, only more. The original cut of Forever would have been beter, but it did have its problems, like the lighting, and Tommy Lee Jones. The script isn't awful, just some of the campy lighting, set, and acting.

Batman and Robin, on the other hand has all of these elements, only to a stronger degree, and more. The acting is awful, the set, and lighting is terrible, when someone jumps the wires pull them like fifty feet (what was up with that?), and the script is just terrible. (My god, those puns make me want to kill myself)

Forever is so much better it's not even funny.

-The Game

[JohnStewart-GL]

those puns should stand for punishment because they were punishing

[The New Batman]

They both were downright terrible, but Batman and Robin was worse.

[The Guard]

Batman Forever took place a few years after BATMAN RETURNS. And it was in the same continuity as Batman and Batman Returns. How do I know this? A. Batman told Dick that he killed someone. B. Catwoman wore "Skintight vinyl". And Bruce talked about a few things from the first two movies. Batman aand Robin was just...crap.

[Dark Knight]

Yes both movies pale in comparison to the first two... but only one of those two movies was the worst movie EVER made (and I stick to that assessment religiously.)

I do, however enjoy certain aspects of Forever. I kinda liked Jim Carreys take on the riddler. Yeah it could have been more cerebral but all in all he made a great batman villain in my opinion even if it wasnt 100% Riddler. Two Face on the other Hand was such a terrible waste. His story should be so much better than that (I just wish they would go back to one villain per movie, it gives us more depth to thier characters because we're forced to focus on them.) Robin was okay I guess. Chase was also okay I guess. All in all I see that as just a fun movie, nothing more.

But Batman and Robin Built on all the bad stuff that was in number three and cut out anything enjoyable... I dont know where to start critisizing that film... and I certainly could never pay it a compliment.

[The Penguin]

I guess I really liked Batman Forever so I voted for that one. When I look at it critically I suppose there are some things about it that are a bit much. The rubber nipples, Two-Face really not being all that torn other than calling himself "we," the Bat-butt shots, "Can I persuade you to take a sandwich with you sir." :(


But Batman & Robin was waaaay worse. I knew it was going downhill the second Commissioner Gordon poped up on the little video screen- "Batman there's a new villain in town, he frozen over the antiquities wing of the Gotham Museum and turned the security guards into blocks of ice. He's calling himself Mr. Freeze."

That, and Gordon wearing his police uniform the whole time made him just look ridiculous. He's Commissioner Gordon, not Chief O'Hara! :mad:

"Let's kick some ice!"

Two words: Sky surfing!

Yeah, I'm too upset to take any more of it apart! :mad:


Sid the Squid isn't "The Man Who Killed Batman" it was Joel Schumacher & co. :mad: :mad:

[dc_gothamite]

I liked Batman Forever better than Batman & Robin. I thought BF wuz an ok movie for a few reasons:

1.) Nicole Kidman wuz just a knock out as Chase.

2.) The ending wuz kewl.

3.) It showed Bruce being hurt by his own parents' deaths (the flashbacks and memories and the journal)

[James]

As much as I hate to say it, BF is far better.

I missed Keaton though. He was outstanding and Kilmer just did absolutely nothing for me. In fact, it felt like he was simply mouthing lines written for Keaton.

Too many villains again and Tommy Lee Jones is simply rehashing Nicholson's role - where is the balance in the coin? There is only one real reference to it as far as I can recall.

Plus it has an that stupid costume change for the final battle. Stupid stupid stupid. But not half as stupid as B&R....!

[Brother Nature]

While we're talking about BATMAN & ROBIN, apart from the dozens of um..."flaws"...that have been mentioned, there's one major plot hole that annoys me no end.

If Poison Ivy wants the entire world to be covered in plants, and Mr. Freeze wants the entire world to be covered in ice, what are they doing teaming up together when their goals appear to conflict so blatantly???

Okay, so both of them share the desire to wipe out humanity(and all that falls under the category of "Fauna" it seems), which Mr. Freeze will accomplish...but then what? How is Poison Ivy going to turn the world into a complete FLORAL paradise, when Mr. Freeze is going to cover it in "endless winter"? :confused:

Is she actually going to settle for a frozen wasteland of a world with some *mutant* plants? What about all the 'natural' trees, flowers & plants which won't have any chance of surviving? Doesn't Ivy care about those? Is she just going to be satisfied with those mutants that she created? Some 'Mother Nature' she is. Seems to me that she'd be doing her beloved plants & 'Mother Nature' a MUCH better favour had she left earth as it was, instead of going along with Freeze's plans & screwing up the eco system big time(unless of course, she was planning to double cross Mr. Freeze, destroy him & de-frost the world once he'd wiped out humanity - in order for to cover the world with plants. But that seems so unlikely, considering that she was actually in love with Freeze, and the prospect of being with him forever seemed even more important to her than restoring earth to nature... :rollseyes:)

Je ne comprends pas!!! :(

[TimTwoFace]

BATMAN FOREVER is by far superior to BATMAN & ROBIN. I still put it in the same category as Burton's two movies.

BATMAN FOREVER is definately more of a popcorn movie, and the best movie of the series as far as getting a general "comic book feel" - it was kinda like Dick Tracy in a way, really. It did have some good things going for it, though:

A) The lighting. Just because it's black-lit doesn't mean it's "light". The neon lights actually added a lot of atmosphere - and if you ever say the cool lights in the Riddler's lair WASN'T cool, I can't understand it. A little bit of a mix between the dark and the light would have been better, though.

B) Jim Carrey's Riddler was terrific. It stole the show from everyone and all - his only flaw - but I seriously thought Carrey did a great job acting.

C) Tommy Lee Jones was the perfect choice to play Two-Face. He was the first to sign on to BATMAN FOREVER (this was before we learned Keaton and Burton dropped it) and thought it was going to be a nice, dark, dreary film. Joel Schumacher just cut out the best scenes and made him the Riddler's lackey through the second half. Sigh.

D) Robin was cool, despite the age problems. Far better than his whiny Robin in BATMAN & ROBIN. Punk Robin is cooler.

E) A decent script. Yeah, really, if you read the BATMAN FOREVER novelization, the script was really awesome. It was just a 2.5 hour movie told in 2 hours. With a director's cut, this would be fixed.

F) Everything is new again. I still hate it when people group FOREVER is in the same boat as B&R. It's MUCH better - and not nearly as campy. Just more action-geared - not campy-geared.

As for what didn't work:
1) Too many villains. With more time, the two-villain idea would have worked pretty well in this movie, as it did in BATMAN RETURNS; sadly, the Riddler and Two-Face weren't terribly interconnected until midway through the movie, and it was just too late to really get a feel for them. It was too one-sided; too much Riddler. Two-Face can easily carry his own movie for two hours (of course); it's a pity he wasn't in BATMAN RETURNS as originally planned.

2) Not as intense. As good as FOREVER is to me, there isn't nearly as much emotional pull as in the first two movies; there's a lot of "wow, that was freakin' cool" scenes in the movie, but not much to tug at the heart. The Flying/Fallen Graysons sequence was handled nicely. So were the action sequences.

That's pretty much it, unless I want to nit-pick. I didn't mind Gossip Gertie in BATMAN FOREVER - she worked well with Jim Carrey and Val Kilmer during the party sequence. She did NOT need to be resurrected in BATMAN & ROBIN, though. I know she's Bob Kane's wife and all, but I'd rather see HIM in the movies as a bit part, not her. Yeesh.

With BATMAN & ROBIN, it suffers from two big problems:

1) Too many characters (eliminate Batgirl and Bane immediately).
2) Poor dialogue. The puns, oh my god, the puns! The basic script is OK, and with Batgirl and Bane out of the way, there'd be more time to develop the relations between Batman, Robin, Freeze, and Ivy. This movie had a lot of potential with the emotional scenes with Alfred and Nora, and these were about the only sequences that came out in the final picture pretty much flawless. More time spent on these sequences would have been better.

If those problems were fixed, BATMAN & ROBIN would need to scale back its grandiose-ness, do more characterization, and bingo, the movie would be just fine. (Arnie as Freeze IS feasable - if he only spoke a few words each minute, as Freeze should, anyway.)

That's how I see it.
-Tim

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

I voted for Batman Forever. And I think everyone knows why.

[Nightflower]

Does this question even need to be asked? :rolleyes:

[The Guitar Slayer]

Yes, because somebody voted for B&R.

C'mon. Tell us your opinion why, o mysterious poster...

Seriously, I want to hear a counter-argument from the B&R camp.

[The Mad Hatter]

Batman Forever might have been a pretty good movie if Two-Face was presented with some sort of malice, or at least psychological interest. As it stands, Tommy Lee Jones tried to out-Carrey Jim Carrey, which is a bad idea. A contrast between Carrey's wackiness and something darker would have worked perfectly.

As for Batman and Robin... er...

(thinking)

It had the same Alfred in it, but that was about the only good thing.

[The Penguin]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
All right! Who voted for Batman & Robin? As Bane would say it was a "Bomb." :p

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by The Penguin
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
All right! Who voted for Batman & Robin? As Bane would say it was a "Bomb." :p
As Shaggy said it wasn't me.

[LazyReaper]

Well maybe if everyone voted for BF, then that one vote would coil up into nothingness... :p

But seriously I too would like to know who voted for BR. I'm not gonna bash you anything, I just wanna hear the other side of the argument....


-Aximl