Police Corruption in the Batman Animated Universe

[aiwac]

Another interesting point in The Old Maid's essays about BB is the alleged lack of basis for Terry's charge of corruption in the Gotham City PD.

Though there are hints to police indifference to the "masses" in BB (Terry screaming for help in the middle of the city when Powers corners him in Rebirth, with no one coming to help; the reaction of a policeman to Terry running for his life in Bloodsport - calling him "dreg" contemptously instead of showing any genuine concern), there is indeed no explicit sign of technical "corruption". As an aside, the fact that Barbara can't possibly miss mass corruption in her force (thus rebutting Terry's accusation of their being "cozy" with Powers) ignores the fact that even Jim Gordon couldn't root it out.

Still, I started to wonder - just how many references, implicit or explicit, are made to police corruption at all the Batman Animated Universe? I can remember all of two - Batman's asking Bullock whether he's on the take in A Bullet for Bullock, a possible reference in Vendetta...and that's about it. There are crooked councilmen (in MOTP, for instance), but not clearly corrupt cops.

If I'm right about this - why is this so? Is it because of censorship/self-censhorship (like the taboo on killing on-screen)? Are there other reasons?

[dark knight 90]

I believe that in the Batman animated universe, we did not see corrupt cops, or really any corrupt politicians... simply because they were unnecessary.?

In the shows, it is imperative that Batman is essentially working with the police, particularly with Gordan, whether Jim or Barbara being a strong figure head and ally in his war.

Outside of story-telling reason... yes perhaps it was a matter of censorship issues...

In a sense... we have our good guys (Batman, Gordan, police) ,and we have our bad (Crime Bosses, thugs, Joker, etc.)... As a result the line was not too blurred, as to confuse kids. This blurring of the line is only done in certain instances... such as the story of Two-Face.

[Wag]

I believe that in the Batman animated universe, we did not see corrupt cops, or really any corrupt politicians... simply because they were unnecessary.?

In the shows, it is imperative that Batman is essentially working with the police, particularly with Gordan, whether Jim or Barbara being a strong figure head and ally in his war.

Outside of story-telling reason... yes perhaps it was a matter of censorship issues...

In a sense... we have our good guys (Batman, Gordan, police) ,and we have our bad (Crime Bosses, thugs, Joker, etc.)... As a result the line was not too blurred, as to confuse kids. This blurring of the line is only done in certain instances... such as the story of Two-Face.In Chris Nolan's version of the animated (see Gotham Knight) DCU there is corruption...There are so many different versions of the animated DCU now it's getting hard to keep track.

[dark knight 90]

In Chris Nolan's version of the animated (see Gotham Knight) DCU there is corruption...There are so many different versions of the animated DCU now it's getting hard to keep track.


Well yes... Burton's bat-movies and particularly Nolan's Bat-movies, have a strong emphasis on the corruption within the Gotham police department.( No doubt influenced by Batman: Year one)

Plus... Batman: Gotham Knight is basically Nolan's universe animated... although loosely and not cannon with the DCAU.

[Style]

There were only oblique hints of police corruption in BTAS. The first is "On Leather Wings" when Gordon hints Bullock is corrupt by saying "The Mayor may not let me fire you, but I won't take the heat for your fiasco!" (compare to Vendetta, where Gordon staunchly defends Bullock to Batman. There was a bit of a changed premise there regarding Bullock.)

Then, of course, the was Gil Mason in "Shadow of the Bat," who was in Two-Face's pocket and conspired to frame Gordon.

Batman Beyond is a whole 'nother beast, that had some unresolved issues regarding police corruption. One of the points of Batman Beyond was to change the class struggle of the franchise. Where as old Batman was rich and travelled in elite circles, New Batman was poor* and was the victim of a rich powerful man and often found himself battling elite enemies. The idea was that Justice was no longer quite blind. Terry may have been off base in his assessment, but perhaps only in degree. It certainly seemed something was up.

The lack of police corruption in BTAS may also tie to concept to the comics in the 90s. I remember comics Nightwing once saying that "In Gotham, the corruption starts at the streets and reaches up. In Bludhaven, it starts in the mayor's office and reaches down." the implication that corruption wasn't quite an issue in Gotham.

And... corrupt cops is an interesting idea in Batman and Nolan uses it well, but I don't think it's an essential component. BTAS isn't missing anything for not having done much of it.

*This is to acknowledge that while New Batman was poor, he still had access to Old Batman's still limitless bank accounts, blunting the "poor" aspect a bit.

[aiwac]

*This is to acknowledge that while New Batman was poor, he still had access to Old Batman's still limitless bank accounts, blunting the "poor" aspect a bit.IIRC, Bruce only pays him an allowance (never specified), so I'd say he's still in the "middle class" range.


BTAS isn't missing anything for not having done much of it....but I have to wonder whether BB did. The cops in BTAS are pretty likeable characters, dedicated civil servants who are unfortunately overhwhelmed.

The cops in BB are a different story. There's no futuristic equivalent to a Bullock or a Montoya. Your point about pandering to the rich may explain Terry's "cozy" remark. After all, corruption can be subtle and indirect. Favoring rich people over the rest of the population, even if no actual money changes hands, is still excerable.

I still think the reaction of the cop to Terry's plight was contemptible. I believe even Bullock would have been more sympathetic.

[Wag]

I will say one thing:

I was very disappointed with the depiction of Montoya as a corrupt cop in Dark Knight, especially after the build up of her as a good cop on Gordon's "clean-up" Squad. In every depiction of her in the DCU so far she always is a good cop, and in the most recent DCU she takes over for Nick Cage as The Question after his untimely demise in the maxiseries 52.

I guess they thought killing her off by Two Face in Dark Knight would be to greater dramatic effect. But considering they didn't use her in the first movie, I really don't know what to think.

[danman007]

I will say one thing:

I was very disappointed with the depiction of Montoya as a corrupt cop in Dark Knight, especially after the build up of her as a good cop on Gordon's "clean-up" Squad. In every depiction of her in the DCU so far she always is a good cop, and in the most recent DCU she takes over for Nick Cage as The Question after his untimely demise in the maxiseries 52.

I guess they thought killing her off by Two Face in Dark Knight would be to greater dramatic effect. But considering they didn't use her in the first movie, I really don't know what to think.

Correction: Renee Montoya was NOT in The Dark Knight, the character you saw in The Dark Knight was named Anna Ramirez.

[Wag]

Correction: Renee Montoya was NOT in The Dark Knight, the character you saw in The Dark Knight was named Anna Ramirez.Ah, thanks, I guess I was so used to seeing Montoya in the Batman Universe, that I automatically thought that's who the character was. Ramirez did make an appearence in Gotham Knight, and was probably interchagable with Montoya up until that point.

Maybe Montoya will be making an appearance sometime later on in the series.

[Style]

The Nolan verse has sort of "bad" versions of the supporting Gotham cops. Flass= Bad Bullock and Ramirez = Bad Montoya. Sadly, that makes it unlikely either character will actually show up for real...

[Wag]

The Nolan verse has sort of "bad" versions of the supporting Gotham cops. Flass= Bad Bullock and Ramirez = Bad Montoya. Sadly, that makes it unlikely either character will actually show up for real...I don't know about Bullock (clearly a career cop), but Montoya doesn't become detective until Gordon becomes Commissioner. So now that Two-Face and Bats have cleared out the corrupt cops, we could see the traditionals character make an appearence. Maybe...

[W.C.Reaf]

I don't know about Bullock (clearly a career cop), but Montoya doesn't become detective until Gordon becomes Commissioner. So now that Two-Face and Bats have cleared out the corrupt cops, we could see the traditionals character make an appearence. Maybe...

She does in the comics and BTAS but the movies doesn't follow that continuity (Ra's training Bruce as a ninja, Joker not being thrown into a vat of chemicals By Bats, etc) and so doesn't have to wait to introduce Montoya as a detective.

They could also introduce her as a good beat cop, since that's how she started out in BTAS.

Also Ramirez wasn't shot by Two-Face. He let her go because the coin landed clean side up.

[Antiyonder]

Since this is for the Batman Animated Universe and not just Batman, I thought I'd include an article typed by The Old Maid concerning the possibility of crooked police in Batman Beyond:


In "Rebirth" Terry states something that should have changed the series. He insists he won't present his evidence to the police because "you know how cozy they are with Powers." This is a serious charge. It puts either Terry's credibility or Barbara's at risk.It is hard to imagine Barbara Gordon tolerating even the appearance of wrongdoing in her troops. Nevertheless Terry's claim is strengthened by the fact that neither Warren McGinnis nor Harry Tully called the police when they had the chance. What do they know that we don't?

Terry may have made such an allegation because :

1. He is lying ; he hates all police for arresting him.
2. He is repeating something he heard Warren say.
3. He is repeating something he heard from Big Time or in Juvie Hall.

The latter two suggestions have especial merit. If Terry does hate the GCPD he loved his father more. It does not serve Terry to shun anyone who could help him. The second proposal would be predicated on whether Warren talked too much. The third scenario seems most probable. Inmates meet many policemen, and like the police they do compare notes. Now criminals almost always protest their innocence ; police will sarcastically remark that prison is full of innocent men. However if there really were corrupt officers, the inmates would know about it.

It is convenient how incompetent the police can be when it benefits Batman's enemies. Warren's murder should have been solved. At minimum it should have been reclassified. Why did Warren open the door? How did no one hear a gang of Jokerz rampaging through an apartment building? They have no mime faction. In fact Jokerz prefer to make noise because it paralyzes the victims and witnesses. There is also the fact that another Wayne-Powers employee disappeared the day Warren died. Phone records would indicate they spoke just before Tully vanished.

One cannot argue that Fixx picked the lock and erased the phone records. Barbara would have uncovered such tampering since as Batgirl she solved similar cases. One cannot argue that Barbara suppressed the case to protect Terry. Terry did not don the uniform until the week after the funeral ; the case could have been reclassified by then. In any event Barbara could not protect "the new errand boy" without knowing which case to suppress. She never met Terry until episode nine. Whoever did handle this case was either unqualified or uncooperative.

Or consider the breathtaking incompetence in "Disappearing Inque." Inque attempts to escape by wrapping herself around a policeman's body. Did he not notice she was there? Was he helping her escape? Perhaps he only agreed to go along with it to put some distance
between her and the hostages, but this was never stated. In fact the policeman expresses surprise when Inque disengages from him. His colleagues also shout "what is [Batman] doing?!" when Batman tries to pry Inque off her prey. If this was a ploy to save the hostages, none of the key officers knew about it.

Later on the news it is announced that still no one knows why Inque's cell melted. Did no one check the circuit breakers to see if the room had lost power? How could anyone miss something so basic?

Why does no one know where Inque went? A disgruntled worker has had a crush on Inque for some time. Security cameras show that Aaron visits
her regularly. He was the last person to be seen near her. Shortly after he is fired, she escapes. Not a hard case to solve. Even if Inque erased the surveillance footage, it wouldn't change the fact that Supervisor Chandler already saw it. The police should have interviewed both men. Instead Inque and Aaron spend a whole day together. No one ever comes looking for her.

Even in "Shriek" the police fail to follow up on the obvious. They see Shreeve destroy his own lab ; then he attacks them. Shreeve owed money to Derek Powers, Powers having bailed out his company. Surely Powers could tell them how to contact his own employee. No one pursues this investigation either.

It is possible the police really are incompetent, but every one of these incidents could be explained if crooked cops were protecting Blight's operatives.

What is truly blatant is how promptly the police clean up their act when Blight leaves the series. (Maybe Paxton informed on them all?) Therefore this could also qualify as a Changed Premise.

[aiwac]

Since this is for the Batman Animated Universe and not just Batman, I thought I'd include an article typed by The Old Maid concerning the possibility of crooked police in Batman Beyond

Actually, the Old Maid's essay was my spur for posting on the subject, as well as my attempted rejoinder to the thesis of "The Perfectly Linear Rise and Fall of Bruce Wayne" posited elsewhere. The essays on the WF site are a veritable gold mine for discussion topics. :) :D

Still, the police in BB are noticeable largely in their absence and lack of genuine adherence to the concept of "serve and protect". I mean, Terry may as well have been in the middle of a desert for all his yelling for help IN THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN GOTHAM.

My argument, however, is that actual corruption is unnecesarry. All that is needed is apathy and indifference. I think the police are no less guilty of that. They most certainly did not "clean up their act" after Derek's sinking - witness the apathy in Bloodsport. A guy runs for his life from a killer, and is met with derogatory remarks.

As the quote often misattributed to Edmund Burke goes:

"All that is needed for eveil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"

With the possible exception of Barbara, I see no reason to regard anyone in the BB GPD as "good".

[The Old Maid]

Welcome newbie aiwac! (a bit late, I know).

You kind of caught me in the middle of something else, so forgive if I can't get back to things right away. (By "right away" I mean within the month.) Maxie Zeus too, whom you've mentioned in essay analysis; I think he's moving.

I have to agree with Style's point that Money Changes The View. Also, Terry as an ex-con does see the world from a unique vantage point. Tim Drake the street urchin is the closest thing we have to second place, with Detective Bullock's seedy side of life probably third.

I don't think I've argued that Barbara is ignorant of trouble on her police force, but that, like her father before her, she probably hasn't enough Good Muscle to do enough about it. If Terry says there are "cops cozy with Powers" standing between him and justice for his dad, the writers should have explored it, explained it, or deleted it. It's too serious a charge to be used as dialogue filler to time out the episode.

(My personal pet peeve on "never a cop when you need one" is in BB's "Speak no evil." Dana, Howard, Max and Terry hear a scream, and Dana says dismissively, "Hey, it's Gotham. That's practically our theme song." No one thinks to pick up a phone and call for help except Max -- and she can only dispatch Batman by pretending to be hungry so Terry can leave to buy her a hamburger. There are bigger peeves, but this one reflects on Dana, who's supposed to be a good influence on Terry.)

Even if Terry had not had dealings with the police, I think it was a weakness in the BB series to not include any police characters. They're not even redshirts. The closest they get to a personality is the mass personality of Vader's stormtroopers, when they hunt Terry in "Eyewitness." (One of them smiled.) Second place is "ROTJ" when one of them puts his hand to his eyes after Terry/Batman escapes from the shining light of the death beam that blew up the ship. (Some say he was saluting Batman, but that's a weird thing to do, IMHO.)

Y'know what would have been fun: make Terry's parole officer a character. "Oh, you're sorry you're late, are you? You had to save a talking gorilla from the evil poachers, say you? Last week it was saving Dana from Giant Man-Eating Rats. I suppose next week it will be saving a billionaire from the Queen of Hearts chasing him on a flying card. Back to Juvie with you!"

[aiwac]

Welcome newbie aiwac! (a bit late, I know).

Thanks :)! It's great to be here.



I don't think I've argued that Barbara is ignorant of trouble on her police force, but that, like her father before her, she probably hasn't enough Good Muscle to do enough about it.

I think I misread your essay to mean Terry's accusation is unfounded :o. My apologies :sad:. Your essays tend to be so extensive and have so many interesting points (in a very good way) that I guess I got things jumbled.



If Terry says there are "cops cozy with Powers" standing between him and justice for his dad, the writers should have explored it, explained it, or deleted it. It's too serious a charge to be used as dialogue filler to time out the episode.

I agree that it's too serious to be taken as filler. However, having thought about it, I have to wonder how they could have expanded on or explained it. As mentioned before, police corruption is rarely mentioned at all in the Batman universe, and then only obliquely. The example of Gil Mason mentioned by Style (I'd forgotten about that :eek:) doesn't really say anything about the rest of the force. One rotten apple is not the same as a state of affairs where much of the force is on the take a la Serpico or Batman Begins.



Y'know what would have been fun: make Terry's parole officer a character. "Oh, you're sorry you're late, are you? You had to save a talking gorilla from the evil poachers, say you? Last week it was saving Dana from Giant Man-Eating Rats. I suppose next week it will be saving a billionaire from the Queen of Hearts chasing him on a flying card. Back to Juvie with you!"

Yeah that would have been fun. Though I think the 22 minute format effectively killed the possibility for three different "parents" (Mary, Bruce and the PO).

Come to think of it, why did they insist on such a short format for BB?

[dark knight 90]

^^

The 22-minute format has generally been the same for all Saturday morning cartoons... the DCAU and Batman Beyond was no exception.

And Mary as a parent never got much screen time in general anyway.

[BonyT]

The Nolan verse has sort of "bad" versions of the supporting Gotham cops. Flass= Bad Bullock and Ramirez = Bad Montoya. Sadly, that makes it unlikely either character will actually show up for real...Well, Flass more directly equals Batman: Year One's Flass, who is truly and thoroughly corrupt like Nolan's Flass. In fact, the scene with Flass offering Gordon a "taste" of extortion money in Begins is a nod to a close model in BY1 if I remember correctly. But yeah, you're right, there's too much similarity between Flass and Bullock for the latter ever to be likely to make an appearance in Nolan's film series. (And it somehow hadn't clicked with me until reading your post that Nolan's Flass certainly does resemble Bullock in physical build.)

As a semi-related aside, since the subject of Nolan's Frank Miller connection has come up, it's interesting to note that Nolan's Commisioner Loeb, while he's portrayed as somewhat of an ass, isn't expressly established as being corrupt in the same way that his BY1 model is.

[Wolf Boy2]

I always though corrupt cops were a trademark of the pre-Gordon era, not something we would see during the Gordon/Batman prime.

There were corrupt cops in Year One, but by the time Dark Victory ended the force was pretty clean (or so I thought). The mainstream comics aren't portraying Gotham police in the same way that Frank Miller portrayed them.

As for Batman Beyond, why does Terry's line have to be considered Gospel Truth and not just a rumor being repeated by a kid? I don't think a 16-year old is a serious authority on the inner workings of the Police force.:shrug:

[aiwac]

As for Batman Beyond, why does Terry's line have to be considered Gospel Truth and not just a rumor being repeated by a kid? I don't think a 16-year old is a serious authority on the inner workings of the Police force.:shrug:

It's not gospel truth, but the indirect evidence presented by the Old Maid suggests that, at the very least, the Police isn't very good at it's job (understatement of the decade :o).

As I mentioned before, I don't think actual bribery is necesarry.

Besides, Terry is a ex-inmate at Juvie. In all likelihood, he has a pretty good idea when the cops try hard and when they don't really try at all.

Rebirth itself is a good demonstration, besides the scene in downtown Gotham, you have the finale at the hoverpads - explosions, spreading nerve gas and a crashing hover-transport within full view of anyone who looks outside the window, and the police can't find anything. Even if Powers is adept at cover-up - where are the Harvey "I bend the rules a little" Bullocks of the world?

[Wolf Boy2]

It's not gospel truth, but the indirect evidence presented by the Old Maid suggests that, at the very least, the Police isn't very good at it's job (understatement of the decade :o).

As I mentioned before, I don't think actual bribery is necesarry.

Besides, Terry is a ex-inmate at Juvie. In all likelihood, he has a pretty good idea when the cops try hard and when they don't really try at all.

Rebirth itself is a good demonstration, besides the scene in downtown Gotham, you have the finale at the hoverpads - explosions, spreading nerve gas and a crashing hover-transport within full view of anyone who looks outside the window, and the police can't find anything. Even if Powers is adept at cover-up - where are the Harvey "I bend the rules a little" Bullocks of the world?
In "Batman Adventures", Harvey was fired by Mayor Penguin. But I'm sure you didn't mean that literally.:D

I prefer just to take the shows at face value and not analyze them too much. Cops and military are almost always useless in superhero stories, as they only serve to prove why Superheroes are needed. Like the adults in kiddie novels (I'm looking at YOU, Harry Potter) the Police are conveniently ignorant, absent or just plain idiotic so that the main character can save the day.

Even in BTAS, look at the 3 main police characters (Gordon, Bullock and Montoya): an old man, a fat man and a woman. None of them had martial arts ability or anything heavier than a service revolver. Bottom line, they had no physical presence against the villains that Batman could fight. Look at Batman's partners even: an old man, two teen boys and a 20-something girl with the total body mass of my pinkie toe. Dick was much more formidable as Nightwing, but how many episodes did he actually appear in? :shrug:

I think its less about police/Powers conspiracy and more about convenience for the writers.

[aiwac]

I think its less about police/Powers conspiracy and more about convenience for the writers.

If that's the case, then it's not much of a convenience, since we never see much in the way of direct evidence for the charge.