PS2 or Gamecube

[Beyond Batman]

Batman: Vengence (PS2) vs. Batman: Dark Tomorrow (Gamecube)

Okay, if you've searched the news, I'm sure you've seen the soon to be released Batman games coming out for both the PS2 and the Gamecube. If you don't own either systems, which one would you get, assuming that those Batman games are the primary reasons why you'll be getting a system.

Or, if you already have a PS2, would you buy a Gamecube? I've heard from some of my friends that attened the recent E3 convention, that the Gamecube looks very impressive.

http://www.assignmentx.com/multimedia/Batman/Images/BatmanImages271386.jpg

[The Mad Hatter]

Um. Personally, I wouldn't use either Batman game as the sole basis to get a system. Batman: Vengeance has great CGI sequences, but the actual gameplay was rough at E3. It could improve into a good, enjoyable game, but I don't think it'll be groundbreaking or spectacular. It's cheaper to rent and enjoy if that's your only motivation for a game machine.

And yes, the CGI sequence of Dark Tomorrow looked great, but there wasn't any gameplay to be found at E3. And if it's going to be a launch title... that's a bad sign. Not to mention that I bring dire words of warning: Kemco is the one who made the ROTJ game.

And I know I don't count because I'll have to get all the consoles as part of my game reviewing gig, but I'd definately be getting a 'Cube anyway. It looked absolutely spectacular at E3, and supposedly (acording to IGN) there's so much buzz among game developers that Nintendo can't make enough Gamecube development kits to meet the demand. It's looking strong indeed.

[Bird Boy]

yeah. I'm getting GameCube no matter what.

I just read in the new issue of Game Informer (#99), that Nintendo will have 500,000 units availible for the first week (it comes out in the states on Nov. 5th...3 short days before X-Box [which is so frickin' big looking, it's ugly. I mean, they show all of these japenese girls holding a gamecube each...but they need 2 girls to hold ONE x-box..sickeing...]). Then, the second week, another 500,000 will ship. Making 1,000,000 units availible for the first 2 week of sales (If you can't tell..I can't wait for gamecube.. :D). I plan on buying Super Smash Bros. Melee, and Batman: Dark Tomorrow. My bro will probably buy some others (Luigi's Mansion..GAWD..theres so many good titles coming out for it!!)...I personally can't wait

Oh, and I hate PlayStation..always have..ALWAYS will. I loath it.. :)

-BB

[James Harvey]

What'll be the price of the Gamecube? I'll be getting a GameBoy Adavnce, but I wonder if I should spring for a GC. Oh, and will the GB Advance play original GB titles?

[Bird Boy]

All the information you need DG, is below:

The GameCube's MSRP is $199.95 (or 199.99..I forget). The X-Box? $299.95!! Boooo..hiiiissss.. ;)

Drawback is, it won't play DVD's..but this is a gaming system..it's for gaming..not for movie watching.

Yes, the GBA does play all original GB titles, and GBC titles. Cool eh?

So, for answering your Q's.. what's my prize? A day as the head of Worlds Finest? Becoming the source you tell all of your new news to first? Or is my prize just being a good little poster, and not asking for a prize? :rolleyes:

hehe. hope I answered all of yer Q's!
Oh, and all prices US..I suppose it'll be more in Canada.. :(

-BB

[The Mad Hatter]

Bird Boy's got the info down! Flap on, my crazy avian friend.

I know this bit of info won't make your decisions any easier, but the GBA is well worth the money. Many of the games out for it are great: Tony Hawk is amazing, though I've been absorbed by Castlevania for weeks now. Not to mention that it can be used as a controller for the Gamecube. If you've got the dough, spring for both!

[Nightwing]

I was super psyched when I heard Gamecube's price, because I think that might just be the reason I buy it, but I'm still slightly torn. I've been torn forever but this post helped me a bit. I've got the money, just not the decision.

But the pricing helps QUITE a bit too. And heck, I think making the Gamecube not play DVD's was a great idea, because that most likely would have jacked up the price. This way the price is like a new N64 in it's days right after birth, except it's not an N64. It's evolved!! A financial decision like that shows why Nintendo is Nintendo.

[Bird Boy]

well, there is a Panasonic DVD player you can hook up or somthing on the new gamecube.comes out at it's launch.....in Japan. No word on it yet if it's coming out in the states. Look on page 13 of issue #99 of Game Informer. They give more info on it, and a picture.. :)

-BB

[Flying Grayson]

I'm saving up for a gameboy Advance right now. I lost my GBC. Also after reading a few issues of EGM I plan on getting an X-box once the prices go down a few hundred(this is how Gates plans on getting richer, with a 700 dollar gaming consol. Now matter how good the graphics look I am not spending $700 on a consol alone). The graphics look great.

[Bird Boy]

X-Box isn't $700. It's $299.99. GameCube is cheaper.. :D

-BB

[Flying Grayson]

Originally posted by Bird_Boy
X-Box isn't $700. It's $299.99. GameCube is cheaper.. :D

-BB

Must have heard wrong.
I'm still wait'n till its cheaper

[The Mad Hatter]

Ah yes, EGM, Xbox's main cheerleader for some unfathomable reason. Maybe Bill Gates bought them a hot tub or something.

Anyway, I saw the Xbox at E3, and I'd suggest to save your money. Aside from Munch and Halo, all of the games they showed were mediocre at best, and the graphics were outclassed by the supposedly inferior Gamecube. If the Xbox does get good games, it'll be a while after it launches. We'll see...

Oh yes, and the Panasonic deal with the DVD player isn't an add-on... it's a different type of Gamecube that plays DVDs, but will be a bit more expensive. No one knows if it'll come stateside, though.

[James Harvey]

Thanx for the Gamecube. I'm on a wee bit of a budget, and I do plan to get the Gamecube in late 2000 (or maybe after Christmas when my local tech store - FUTURE SHOP - has the annual 60% off sale) but I'd reall ylike a Gameboy just to have something to play with when I don't want to do homework, watch movies, or socially interact. :) I always wanted a Gameboy, too. Now I can get all those old games from those $5 and $10 bins...

Thanx fer the info Bird_Boy!

[Flying Grayson]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
Ah yes, EGM, Xbox's main cheerleader for some unfathomable reason. Maybe Bill Gates bought them a hot tub or something.



Possible. I know they usually don't have incredible games coming out the first couple of months. Some of PS2 games were medieocer the first few months, but they're getting better.

P.S. I first subscribed to the magazine for one major reason. The Hsu and Chan comic strip inside. I like all of the other areas now thought

[The Mad Hatter]

I know they usually don't have incredible games coming out the first couple of months.

Who is "they?" When the N64 and Dreamcast launched, they launched with incredible games that made people want to go out and buy a system. The only reason the PS2 got away with launching without an "A" title is because they rode the popularity of the original PlayStation.

If Microsoft doesn't manage to whip something far better than what they've got now, and soon, they're in a heap of trouble.

[Flying Grayson]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter


Who is "they?" When the N64 and Dreamcast launched, they launched with incredible games that made people want to go out and buy a system. The only reason the PS2 got away with launching without an "A" title is because they rode the popularity of the original PlayStation.

If Microsoft doesn't manage to whip something far better than what they've got now, and soon, they're in a heap of trouble.

Good point. Althought I have seen a Jet Grind Radio sequal coming on to the X-Box which looks great, and if it's like the first one We'll see a great game on the horizion. My only hope is that the ending is better. it's a little unrealistic to have some skating grafitie painting punks who save the world, but hey, its a video game.

[Vigo Sprax]

I already own a PS2, I don't regret buying it and there have been some good games (Though they're really short). By the time the new consoles are released PS2 will have an over 10 million userbase.

I'll probably buy the GameCube, the $200 price tag makes it very attractive and I don't mind no DVD because I already have a PS2! I also just purchased the GBA, and its great - Mad Hatter once mentioned that Nintendo is devoting 30% to GBA and 70% to GC, if thats true then its gonna be awesome. It looks to me like Nintendo isn't going to make any N64 mistakes after getting its butt kicked by the PS.

As for X-Box, I'll wait and see how it does. The thing is, I think a lot of people will do this and it will never reach stellar sales - I believe this is what happened to the DreamCast. I also figure though, that Microsoft will throw money at it no matter what and we'll end up seeing it stick around as the little brother.

[I.R Joey]

In essance I think that this whole consolewar in stupid. I can say that I like all the systyems and I am not so jaded as not to appreciate the unique gifts each possess. Quote me.

"Bias? I hate the word as I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee."

But alas we must all live with it. As one of my fellow Gaming-Age board members put it.

"Everyone's biast deal with it."

Gamecube: Great price tag, and plenty of Nintendo 1st party goodness. They are perhaps the only console developer that can stand completly without the aid of 3rd party.

PS2: Built in DVD (though that isn't a factor in me buying it), and a steadily increasing supply of good games. (Z.O.E looks mighty nice from here.) Hopefully a price drop will happen sometime this year (like 50$) to make it more appealing. Plus you have games like MGS2, Final Fantasy X, and others that are sure to turn some heads.

X-Box: The most powerful of the Next Gen systems, and from where I stand it looks okay. With Sega's Smilebit hammering away with (Jet Grind Radio, Panzer, and Gun Valk.) plus stuff like Oddworld and DOA3 all around launch And why is everyone so dead set against Microsoft, they're pretty much using the same strategy's Sony uses.

DC: R.I.P my dear freind, but what's this Sonic Adventure 2, Shenmue 2, Headhunter, Toe Jam and Earl, and Crazy Taxi 2? This system s going to go out with a shout not a squeal. It was very much underappreciated IMO. Sadly it will take Sega throwing themselves at people to get them to realize. Plus all the closet SEga fanboys suddenly coming out sickens me.

"It's like okay, we can allow ourdselves to like Sega now because they're making games on console x."

Oh well the point is that I won't allow myself to hate any console, and I think we should all try and see the good in them.

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
[In reguard to the X-BOX] Aside from Munch and Halo, all of the games they showed were mediocre at best, and the graphics were outclassed by the supposedly inferior Gamecube. If the Xbox does get good games, it'll be a while after it launches.

As a semi-gamer, I think an answer to this question will prove very usefull to all the console buyers out there. I think it's something important we all should know.

To the gamers and professional game reviewers out there: Would you say the main reason for your average system biased person to chose a particular console (of these next generation ones) for it's overall ability to produce good games, and not the games themselves?

IMHO, I think it is, because that would be chosing the better machine, which will therefore be able to wow you with new things you've never seen before the easiest. So hardware and software wize, which one fits that description?

I have a slight feeling it's Gamecube, because I've read a lot about it, and the proof to what they put into it is in the pudding. The Legend of Zelda clip is an amazing example.

Gamer people, please advise. ;)

[Peace Keeper]

I think I am going to get the X-box. I'll need a DVD player at college, and I'm not a big fan of the Mario Borthers or Pokemon games. I'm more of a fighter/rpg player, and Nintendo never seems to have many of those. I know that currently, Nintendo markets their crap to a younger demographic than SEGA and SONY. Will that be true with the Game Cube as well?


Have people started reserving X-boxes yet?

[Bird Boy]

yeah, like nintendo's game have been directed towards kids all of the time..Conkers Bad Fur Day anyone?

But, seriously, GameCube is going to have it directed towards all. They'll have some M games coming out at launch, and fighting..and RPG... Nintendo is great.. :)

-BB

[Tim Drake]

SNES had great games such as Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire etc. Because of the limits on file space (cartridge space does not compare to CDs) and the more complex progamming process a lot of companies skipped over n64. Capcom, Squaresoft, and other developers with more "adult" games left their cozy relationship with Nintendo. But because the Gamecube compares on a file space basis, all their companies are back. And they even have Sega working with them!!

n64 had some good adult games. They were just very few. I really like Perfect Dark. But even still just because a game has kiddie characters doesn't mean that that adults can't appreciate them. Loony Tunes and Animaniacs were made with adult audiences in mind. Super Smash Brothers may have Mario, Pikachu and Jigglypuff but there's no question that is an awesome addictive fighting game. I know many people who prefer this over street fighter 7 alpha or Marvel vs Capcom vs SNK vs Street Figher 3. I'm a college student and I'd play Mario Kart 64 over Twisted Metal 3 anyday.

Gamecube is going to rock. Even though not the most advanced, it as of now provides the most graphically. The controller design like always is revolutionary. X Box has a clunker and PS2 didn't bother to fix their controller. Notice how other companies always take their designs? First console with a control pad, trigger buttons, analog joystick....

Gameplay. Nintendo makes games that last forever. My roomates and I still play Smash Brothers everyday. Innovation. They've created most genres. Super Mario was the first side scroller. Super Mario 64 the first 3d adventure platformer. Mario Party. first good video board game. I could go on but I'll stop.

My prediction? Nintendo will come to the forefront. Playstation will survive but may eventually sputter out. X Box will continue simply because Bill Gates has too much money. Nintendo is the only thing that lasts. Remember Atari? And Sega Genesis? Sega is going third party and Jaguar was laughable. Only Nintendo has staying power because only Nintendo can exist without 3rd party developers. If they just had Nintendo owned games I'd still buy the system.

K I'm done venting. Go Gamecube!!

[The Mad Hatter]

Quoth Nightwing:
To the gamers and professional game reviewers out there: Would you say the main reason for your average system biased person to chose a particular console (of these next generation ones) for it's overall ability to produce good games, and not the games themselves?

Hm, I'm really not sure. I try to avoid the boards where the deepest conversation is "(name of system) SUX!" But I get the impression that (generally) PlayStation fanboys are in it because of the wide selection of games, Gamecube fanboys are in it because of the greater quality of fewer games, and Xbox fanboys are in it for sheer system power.


Quoth Peace Keeper:
I know that currently, Nintendo markets their crap to a younger demographic than SEGA and SONY. Will that be true with the Game Cube as well?


Argh. True, much of Nintendo's output for the N64 has been "cuter" than the stuff for the PlayStation, but have you ever played them? On average, the N64 stuff has deeper and more complex game mechanics than much of the PS' "mature" games, which are only labelled as such because they have blood and guts, not a compelling game system. This kind of bias is very similar to the American bias against more mature animation, simply because it's animated. And need I bring up Goldeneye, Conker, Perfect Dark, Turok, etc. etc.

But in answer to your question, yes, the Gamecube will have more "mature" stuff. The new Wave Race and Star Wars games were absolutely mind-blowing. But get a load of Eternal Darkness. It's somewhat like Resident Evil, but you have a "sanity meter." Simply put, as you watch all this crazy stuff unfold, you'll start to go insane. How does it show up? While I played it at E3, I walked into a room. My head promptly fell off and bounced across the room. I tried to walk over to pick it up, but my arms fell off too. Finally the rest of me broke apart in a wobbling heap. Then there was a flash of clarity... I had never entered that room at all, I just imagined it! Cool.

Also... you're going for an Xbox over a PS2? If DVD capability and "mature" games are your motivation, then why is that? The two systems are going to share a LOT of games. Even Sega, who has the best-looking Xbox stuff to date, is "system agnostic" and is likely to port over these Xbox games to the PS2 and Gamecube. Really, within a year of their launch the three systems will be sharing the majority of their games (Gamecube too: like I said, after E3 Nintendo can't make enough Gamecube development kits to go around), and the true differences between the systems will come down to the first-party games. And not only does Sony's first-party stuff look better than Microsoft's, they're more "mature" as well (there's that vexful term again). So it might be cheaper to just wait for the PS2's price to drop, as I'm sure it will come November.

But that's just my view, it's your decision.

[The Mad Hatter]

Also, Peace Keeper, I should warn you... the Xbox doesn't play DVDs right out of the box. You have to buy a special Microsoft remote control if you want that.

[Firefly]

I've been into gaming for a long time an Nintendo has always been my favriote gaming company the price of the system is awsome before I head the news a few months ago I thought it would be a lot more for the power it has now a days you never see a Next-Gen console for under $300. I'm getting the Cube it's got some great games like Lugi's Mansion, Super Smash Bros. Meele, Star Fox Dinosaur Planet and many more

FF-

[Supermon]

As far as system wars go it really just comes down to the games that are produced.

The N64 was a great system technologically speaking, but it was TOO advanced. It was so much of an investment for developers to design the games that not many were made. Nintendo itself cant produce enough games to make everyone happy.
The PS on the other hand was simple to the degree that it much cheaper for developers to produce the games.
Therefore they had many many more titles.
Nintendo is a smart company and i have faith in them that they wont make the same mistakes twice. Thats my reasoning for buying the gamecube.

[Clayface]

My take on it all:

PS2 - got one already, and love it. I didn't have a DVD player before this, and I now use the PS2 as a DVD player almost every night of the week. And of course, it can play the PS1 games I already owned, and the cool games that are out/coming out for the PS2. A great system in my opinion.

GBA - just bought one last week. I owned an original GB back when they first came out. Then I lost interest in it - no games that appealed to me. Never owned a GBC, but after looking over the games out and coming out for GBA, and some of the more recent games that have come out for GBC, I decided to get one. I just got back from a trip, and I used the thing on the plane. So far, I'm very satisfied with that purchase.

Gamecube - undecided right now. As has been pointed out, a lot of the older Nintendo systems didn't appeal to me because their games mainly appealed to kids. There was just nothing that interested me (and Conker's doesn't count in my opinion - every time I saw a comercial for that thing, it just came across to me as crude humor aimed at teenage players - didn't appeal to me at all). So far, I haven't really seen much for the Gamecube that appeals to me, other than the Star Wars game, and that's just not enough to lure me into buying the system.

XBox - the source of all evil in the world. There's no way in hell I'd ever buy this system - I'm boycotting it on principle alone - Bill Gates and Microsoft have far too much money all earned from some not so great products. I'm forced as it is to use their products when I'm using cocmputers - I don't want to have to deal with them when I'm gaming too.

[I.R Joey]

XBox - the source of all evil in the world. There's no way in hell I'd ever buy this system - I'm boycotting it on principle alone - Bill Gates and Microsoft have far too much money all earned from some not so great products. I'm forced as it is to use their products when I'm using cocmputers - I don't want to have to deal with them when I'm gaming too.


Hey dude this is really to bad. If they get some exclusives (and the way Oddworld seems to have mysteriously moved their game to that platform shows this.) you may miss out. And I heard from somewhere that DOA3 would be exclusive (I'm not sure if this is an exclusive window though lasting like 6 months to a year though.) IMO we should all wait for these 2 systems to be launched before we judge them.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
Hey dude this is really to bad. If they get some exclusives (and the way Oddworld seems to have mysteriously moved their game to that platform shows this.) you may miss out.



Miss out on what?? I've never been one to have the "must have it first" attitude that a lot of gamers seem to have. And my life won't end if I don't play every game every other gamer plays. Again, its the principle of the thing. I personally feel its wrong to support Gates and Microsoft, and if I can avoid giving them any more money in any way, I will.




IMO we should all wait for these 2 systems to be launched before we judge them.


I agree. In fact, on paper, Xbox looks like it can kick the you-know-what of any other system out there. But my point is that I'mnot judging the system - I'm judging the company behind the system.

[The Mad Hatter]

Quoth Superman:

The N64 was a great system technologically speaking, but it was TOO advanced. It was so much of an investment for developers to design the games that not many were made. Nintendo itself cant produce enough games to make everyone happy.
The PS on the other hand was simple to the degree that it much cheaper for developers to produce the games.
Therefore they had many many more titles.

Well, the N64 was tough to program for, but I think the main reason a lot of 3rd party developers were scared off was because of the cartridge thing. There wasn't enough storage space there to make them happy.

But yeah, the Gamecube doesn't seem to have any apparent weaknesses on the tech side of things, so we'll see what happens. (Then again, the Dreamcast didn't have any tech weaknesses either...)

I've got to agree with Clayface, Microsoft is pretty darn evil, and I'd be tempted to boycott the Xbox on principle as well. But I'm honestly looking at the system without bias, and I'm willing to give it a fair chance. But aside from Jet Set Future, none of their games has me excited.

[Peace Keeper]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
...much of Nintendo's output for the N64 has been "cuter" than the stuff for the PlayStation, but have you ever played them? On average, the N64 stuff has deeper and more complex game mechanics than much of the PS' "mature" games, which are only labelled as such because they have blood and guts, not a compelling game system.

Actually, I have a N64, and it sux major balls. I don't own a PS , so I'll have to take your word on the controls. I do, however, own a dreamcast and would not say that n64 games have been deeper or more complex than it.

The only games I thought were okay were GOLDEN EYE, JET FORCE GEMINI, and the SOUTH PARK GAME (it was good to play when you had company). It really pissed me off that I couldn't play GAUNTLET LEGENDS w/ 4 people w/out the screen freezing <<even w/ the expansion pack!!>>

According to this thread, the GAMECUBES strongest games seem to be Luigis' Mashion, Super Smash Bros. Meele, Star Fox Dinosaur Planet ---but I would never buy those games anyway, and I can live with out the next ZELDA.


Gameplay. Nintendo makes games that last forever. My roomates and I still play Smash Brothers everyday. Innovation. They've created most genres. Super Mario was the first side scroller. Super Mario 64 the first 3d adventure platformer. Mario Party. first good video board game. I could go on but I'll stop.
Who cares if it was the first side scroller. They don't make side scrollers anymore. And Super Mario 64 pissed me off. I don't enjoy playing the same board 10 times inorder to go back and get stars. Basically, I don't like any Nintendo first party games. MARIO PARTY was too bad to even talk about.

[I.R Joey]

"But yeah, the Gamecube doesn't seem to have any apparent weaknesses on the tech side of things, so we'll see what happens. (Then again, the Dreamcast didn't have any tech weaknesses either...)"


Boom that's the thing. So much of the DC's demise had to do with popular conception dude, and the fact that, like you stated before, that Sega of America (this was where the DC was strongest) couldn't advertise their way out of paper bag. For the later half of last year it was pretty much Sega standing by themselves. I personally think that the fall of last year was the DC's finest hour (a light is brightest before it fades.) and I may never foreget some of the games that came out in that time. However, Nintendo has as Charles Belfield (Sega of America's VP) put it "a 6 billion dollar war chest," and they are not fighting off a ton of deabt. They are launching at a cheap price, with the second most powerful hardware this gen, and with franchises people know well, and judging by sales figures, do enjoy.


I'm growing increasingly skeptical of Microsoft's ability to fail. Quality or not they have cold hard cash, the ultimate killer app AAA title. So if worse comes to worse they can throw money at it. I mean half a billion bucks for advertisment is not a joke.

And come on guys Microsoft and Bill Gates are simply trying to make money, if that's evil then may our free market collapse. They are a bueisness and should be somewhere near the top of their objectives right? I'm simply saying the the box may have some really cool games, and you may miss out on them, just because you don't really like to company behind them. That would have been the equivalent to boycotting Batman when Kid's WB started messing with it and Supes (and really with Batman Beyond), or not wanting to buy a Gargoyles DVD (assuming you're a fan), because you don't like Disney.

Oh well maybe I'm just not jaded enough, anyway you guys have a right to your opinion.

[Peace Keeper]

This is a list of all of the third parties making online games for X-Box.


Acclaim
Activision
ArtDink Corporation
Atlus Company Limited
Bandai Company Limited
Capcom
Codemasters
Crave
Eidos
EA
FOX Interactive
Gathering of Developers
Infogrames
Interplay
Konami
Lucasarts
Midway
Namco Limited
Rage
Rockstar Games
Sega
Sierra
Taito Corporation
Take-Two
TDK
THQ
Ubisoft

[The Mad Hatter]

Quoth Peace Keeper:

Basically, I don't like any Nintendo first party games. MARIO PARTY was too bad to even talk about.

Really? Have you played Zelda? Or Banjo-Kazooie? It sounds like tone makes an even bigger impression on you than I thought. Oh, did you play Mario Party with friends? Its single-player stuff is, indeed, a joke. But with a group of friends, even a crowd that isn't too fond of cute stuff (like the folks I played it with) will have a blast.


Quoth I.R. Joey:

I'm growing increasingly skeptical of Microsoft's ability to fail. Quality or not they have cold hard cash, the ultimate killer app AAA title. So if worse comes to worse they can throw money at it. I mean half a billion bucks for advertisment is not a joke.

Ah, but you said yourself that all the money Sega threw at the Dreamcast didn't do a bit of good. I'm not as confident in Microsoft's marketing department... since they realize that people will buy their PC stuff because they're more or less forced to because of the monopoly, their ads have been pretty weak. But the console field will be quite different.


And come on guys Microsoft and Bill Gates are simply trying to make money, if that's evil then may our free market collapse.

Ah, but it's how they make money that's all the difference. First off, for all of Bill's spouting, Microsoft wouldn't know innovation if it head-butted him. Every one of Microsoft's cornerstones has been stolen from outside sources:
Windows=Mac OS, Word=Word Perfect, Internet Explorer=Netscape, etc. etc. etc. Corporate plagarism. Then you get to the fact that they distribute much of their products for free through Windows... which doesn't make them money, it just drives competitors out of business and bolster's Microsoft's monopoly. Finally, there's their aggressiveness over Windows XP... it actually corrupts MP3 files and forces you to use Microsoft's brand of audio files. No matter how you slice it, it's still dirty pool.

In light of all this, the Xbox is the least evil thing Microsoft has done in years, even if, again, nothing's original or innovative.

And yes, the Xbox has some third parties developing for it, though the Gamecube's list is longer and growing far more rapidly, and the PS2's list is more than five times as long. So, again, why not just get a PS2, which will be cheaper and every bit as competitivein the long run?

[I.R Joey]

Ah, but it's how they make money that's all the difference. First off, for all of Bill's spouting, Microsoft wouldn't know innovation if it head-butted him. Every one of Microsoft's cornerstones has been stolen from outside sources:
Windows=Mac OS, Word=Word Perfect, Internet Explorer=Netscape, etc. etc. etc. Corporate plagarism. Then you get to the fact that they distribute much of their products for free through Windows... which doesn't make them money, it just drives competitors out of business and bolster's Microsoft's monopoly. Finally, there's their aggressiveness over Windows XP... it actually corrupts MP3 files and forces you to use Microsoft's brand of audio files. No matter how you slice it, it's still dirty pool.


1. Dude so what are we going to do? Can Sega take Tecmo and Namco to court for "stealing" the idea of a 3d fighter. No of coarse not, they simply saw Virtru fighter and where influenced by it in making their own fighters.

Ah, but you said yourself that all the money Sega threw at the Dreamcast didn't do a bit of good. I'm not as confident in Microsoft's marketing department


2. Yes but even still compare the amount of money Microsoft has and the amount of money Sega had. See the diffrence. Plus I really do believe that the general public has something against the Hedgehog, and while you may say that people hate Microsoft all the more they have a way of pushing themselves into industrys. Plus I don't think either them or Sony is above tossing very large amounts of cash at developers to get them to do what they want. Oh well I guess time will tell. However, until then we'll have to just wait and see.


BTW Don't be suprised if some 3rd partys start to concentrate on X-box instead of PS2. I'm not saying it will happen but it very well could. Of coarse PS2 will more then likely have a larger userbase.

[The Mad Hatter]

1. Dude so what are we going to do? Can Sega take Tecmo and Namco to court for "stealing" the idea of a 3d fighter. No of coarse not, they simply saw Virtru fighter and where influenced by it in making their own fighters.

Huh? I wasn't talking about games, I was talking about why people think Microsoft is evil, which has very little to do with video games. Yes, there's a fair amount of "follow the leader" in the gaming industry, but comparing optional entertainment to required utility software that quickly becomes forced on the public is a bit like comparing apples and probiscus monkeys. Just some corporate background.


2. Yes but even still compare the amount of money Microsoft has and the amount of money Sega had. See the diffrence. Plus I really do believe that the general public has something against the Hedgehog, and while you may say that people hate Microsoft all the more they have a way of pushing themselves into industrys. Plus I don't think either them or Sony is above tossing very large amounts of cash at developers to get them to do what they want. Oh well I guess time will tell. However, until then we'll have to just wait and see.


Here's some familiar territory. :) I don't know dollar figures, but you forget just how wide Sega's marketing efforts were. The TV was covered in ads. Remember when Sega spent the cash to get Ulala from Space Channel 5 to be a presenter at MTV's music awards? The game still sold abysmally after that. Carpet bombing with ads won't work if you screw up the ads. And remember, the $500 million is for the first 18 months of the system, not just the launch... that's not too much beyond what Sega spent.

And I've got to ask... WHAT industry has Microsoft pushed themselves into? So far they've just conquored the PC world by using DOS and Windows as a Trojan horse. They haven't really had to try to break into an industry where they weren't automatically a monopoly before.

[Vigo Sprax]

Microsoft couldn't even get its exclusives without putting out some fat cash, thats why they have things like Halo, Oddworld, and the Deluxe edition of The Matrix. I haven't seen any games announced for the system that really would make me fork down $300. Most things I see for X-Box are ports or second thoughts.

Like I said, if I see the X-Box doing well I'll probably buy it - most likely after its 1st price drop. The thing is, I think this is how people felt about the Dreamcast, a kinda "well if everyone else buys one, and its future is secured, then I'll buy one too" but since everyone had this attitude it never picked up steam and failed.

As for N64, I agree with Peace Keeper that it sucked. The only games I really enjoyed were: GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, and Rogue Squadron. The GameCube though, is going to have an updated Perfect Dark, the sequel to Rogue Squadron, the Batman game, and more...its not going to have the 64's lineup.


I think I am going to get the X-box. I'll need a DVD player at college, and I'm not a big fan of the Mario Borthers or Pokemon games. I'm more of a fighter/rpg player, and Nintendo never seems to have many of those.

Wouldn't a PS2 be a better deal then? They have RPGs like Final Fantasy, Xenosaga, etc... coming out for it and they have fighting games like Takken & Virtua Fighter.

[I.R Joey]

"Huh? I wasn't talking about games, I was talking about why people think Microsoft is evil, which has very little to do with video games. Yes, there's a fair amount of "follow the leader" in the gaming industry, but comparing optional entertainment to required utility software that quickly becomes forced on the public is a bit like comparing apples and probiscus monkeys. Just some corporate background."


Okay your right, I should use a better metaphor for the hole
Mac OS=MS product thing. It's kinda like he who has the power makes the rules. I like to think of it kind of like an electric company in a small county or something. They can charge money, and if people don't like it well then it's their fault. We have to understand that corporations can be ruthless, but it isn't necciserily evil just bueisness. Let's use another example from the gaming industry (this one I think is more relavent to thee discussionm or at least more related.) Nintendo back in the 8 bit days, prior to the advent of the Genny, had a 90% market share. Would you consider that forcing something down gamers digestive system. I mean they couldn't go to another company to get a console and neither could 3rd partys right?





"Here's some familiar territory. I don't know dollar figures, but you forget just how wide Sega's marketing efforts were. The TV was covered in ads. Remember when Sega spent the cash to get Ulala from Space Channel 5 to be a presenter at MTV's music awards? The game still sold abysmally after that. Carpet bombing with ads won't work if you screw up the ads. And remember, the $500 million is for the first 18 months of the system, not just the launch... that's not too much beyond what Sega spent."


Yeah we talked about this alot at Gaming-Age. I think the thig is that Sega tried to make American audiences get into a niche title. Seriously that particular genre has never really done well in the U.S. Added to the fact that in the opinion of many people Space Channel 5 wasn't "that" good of a game. It didn't perform, and I even heard Peter Moore himself say (in an IGN interview before Xmas) that they made a big mistake in pushing that so hard. The whole MTV music awards thing fit, but they should have gone about it diffrently. I think they probably would have been better off saving their amunition for the X-mas rush, or at least pushing games like Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Ecco, or Ferrari 355 challenge. Of coarse on the other had they made ads for Jet Grind and it still sold to a very small percentage of the DC userbase, :confused:


And I've got to ask... WHAT industry has Microsoft pushed themselves into? So far they've just conquored the PC world by using DOS and Windows as a Trojan horse. They haven't really had to try to break into an industry where they weren't automatically a monopoly before.

That's what I meant. We can argue about whether its underhanded or not, but I think we can all agree that it was succesful.

[The Mad Hatter]

It's kinda like he who has the power makes the rules. I like to think of it kind of like an electric company in a small county or something. They can charge money, and if people don't like it well then it's their fault. We have to understand that corporations can be ruthless, but it isn't necciserily evil just bueisness. Let's use another example from the gaming industry (this one I think is more relavent to thee discussionm or at least more related.) Nintendo back in the 8 bit days, prior to the advent of the Genny, had a 90% market share. Would you consider that forcing something down gamers digestive system. I mean they couldn't go to another company to get a console and neither could 3rd partys right?

So you're saying that if a company, ANY company (not just Microsoft) is taking advantage of people and actively hurting them, we have no right to complain? You would have loved the lassais faire days... (yes, I probably spelled that wrong. I'm too lazy to look it up.)

But yes, Nintendo did have a huge share of the market in the NES days, but not because they physically controlled the medium it's sold on, like Microsoft does with PCs. Remember, the Genesis came out on top for a few years afterward. And besides, Nintendo never physically crippled the competitors, like Microsoft is doing with MP3s.

And I think the main problem with the marketing of Space Channel 5 was that it was never clear to Americans what the hell it was. It's a guilty pleasure of mine, actually. I dig the music.


That's what I meant. We can argue about whether its underhanded or not, but I think we can all agree that it was succesful.


So being successful makes everything all right? How Macheavellian. But their success is in PCs. Consoles are a completely different animal, not to mention that they don't control their mediums.

[I.R Joey]

So you're saying that if a company, ANY company (not just Microsoft) is taking advantage of people and actively hurting them, we have no right to complain?

I don't see how they're hurting people personally, and no I don't think the X-box will be just a PC under your TV.


BTW: I like this thread, it's always nice to talk to another Gaming journalist (I guess I can somehow call myself that now :confused: ) without getting into some shouting match about how system U stinks comapred to system G.

[The Mad Hatter]

Oh? You're a gaming journalist yourself? Where at? Cool to run into another one of us silly folk...

And no, I don't think the Xbox will be a PC under your TV either... that's a pretty unfounded criticism of the wee box. All the games I've seen and experienced for myself have been very console-like... just generic and uninspired. It may take Microsoft a while to really get the hang of things... if they didn't acquire Munch and Halo, they'd really be in trouble.

[Vigo Sprax]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
And I've got to ask... WHAT industry has Microsoft pushed themselves into? So far they've just conquored the PC world by using DOS and Windows as a Trojan horse. They haven't really had to try to break into an industry where they weren't automatically a monopoly before..

Have you ever heard of the PocketPC? They've been trying to dominate that market for years, but until recent times have failed (Previous incarnations were called WinCE).

A new market which they've recently entered is that of the Personal Video Recorder, which I've heard still can't match TiVo's sales.

Anyone notice how Microsoft doesn't tend to get things right till the third try? When did Windows become popular? When did IE actually begin to compete with Netscape? When did WinCE actually begin to compete with Palm OS? All in their 3rd version. Maybe I'll wait for X-Box 3.0 :)

[I.R Joey]

I work at www.consolewar.com, well I don't get money for it so I guess you couldn;t say I get payed. It's more of a hobby. The site is about average right now but we hope to make it better.

[The Mad Hatter]

Hm, I tried clicking on your link, but it didn't work. Or maybe my connection is a little wonky now.

But being paid doesn't really matter. As long as you cover a variety of games in an objective way, you're a gaming journalist.

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by Vigo Sprax

As for N64, I agree with Peace Keeper that it sucked. The only games I really enjoyed were: GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, and Rogue Squadron. The GameCube though, is going to have an updated Perfect Dark, the sequel to Rogue Squadron, the Batman game, and more...its not going to have the 64's lineup.


I don't understand what I'm hear....reading! The only advantages PSX has over N64 are space and avoiding the mistake of ruining potential games by making them more "kid friendly." And they even mess up that second one once in a while, just not as often as N64. For example, I've got a rant and a half for the new Aladdin game that could have been much better.

Well anyway, if I DO buy another system (this would make number 238,763,464) it will most likely be Gamecube, because I'm a Nintendo fan all the way. I think the heros/stars are just better.