Pilot Canidate, Evangelion, & Ranma 1/2

[Andy Mancini]

I've noticed that ever since the premiere of "Canidate for Goddess" on Saturday Night, there has been about 547 threads about "how much the show sucked". Yes, I too joined in on all of the "anime bashing fun". For the three people who have no recoletion of these 547 threads, the main two points focused around the "horrible dub job" and how it was "just a (insert your favorite curse word here) rip-off of 'Neon Genesis Evangelion'". Well, it's been a couple of days since those posts, and I've done a little thinking (between C++ assignments and eating, of course) about this "giant controversy". (The dub job is not in question here.) I do agree that PC has some big-time siliarities to "Evangelion". Still, it looks like that PC is aimed to a different audience than "Evangelion". If PC keeps the same tone and style of the first episode, I would let the "younger 'Dragon Ball Z' set" (8 - 12 year olds) watch it. "Evangelion" is obviously aiming for an older target audience. To put it bluntly, I wouldn't even let the "DBZ jr" crowd NEAR that show until they were at least fifteen and had a firm grip on reality. I do agree that PC has absolutely no business being on Adult Swim, but from what I have heard, it wasn't supposed to be. According to the rumors, it was originally bought for Toonami. Judging by Adult Swim standards (Cowboy Bepop, Home Movies, etc), this show stunk. Toonami, on the other hand, would be perfect for a Evangelion-lite show like PC.

All of these threads have one other one thing in common: there has to be at least one post suggesting that "'Pilot Cannidate' should be canned for 'Ranma 1/2'". Where the heck did that screwy logic come from? People complain about how terribly Cartoon Network edits "Tenchi" and "Outlaw Star". What do think they would do to Ranma? They just wouldn't let it air uncut, I'll tell you that. If you're going to take off a "giant mech show", replace it with another "giant mech show", not a self-proclaimed "martial arts sex comedy". Replacing one controversy with another is just not the answer.

So, in conclusion, I think that PC got the short end of the stick. It might not be the best thing on TV right now, but let's not shoot the master tapes to the moon just yet.

DJ Gir

[J-chan]

*pushes newbie happiness aside*

I was actually going to join just to ask people why they thought Ranma would be a good choice for Adult Swim. ^^; Guess you beat me to it, and more..

Maybe most of those people haven't seen a lot of Ranma, but if they have they're aware of the nudity factor.. I mean, the first episode alone! *blink* I wouldn't want to see 'swimsuits' painted on everybody, and I don't think they could get away with that anyway because of how Ranma-kun doesn't wear anything in case he gets turned into Ranma-chan. It would just look stupid.. whereas they could get away with it (mostly) in Tenchi and such.

As for Pilot Candidate.. I'd love to have an opinion, but unfortunately my cable provider thought it would be funny to screw around with the picture and such. From what I heard (and I often involuntary blocked out a lot of dialogue--call it the Digimon-dub-reflex) I thought it wasn't too bad.. I mean, I haven't seen Evangelion, I'd LIKE to but I can't afford it, and it's like watching Outlaw Star as a substitute for Cowboy Bebop.. it's good if you don't know about the better stuff. And I guess that would make it more appropriate for Toonami.. ^^; I'll watch another episode and see how I feel then..

[Z_E_R_O]

What is that, '"younger 'Dragon Ball Z' set"'? I mean, come on. Shows may bypass alot of peoples'
personal preferences, but DBZ has been a favorite to alot of people, regardless of their age. DBZ is
one of those shows people must hate just because of what success it looks like it has. I guarantee
there would be thousands of fans if none of us had a way to watch it, lol. That's the natural order
within the nerd world. Hate what's popular, popularize what's hated, it makes us look 'smart'
:yawn:.......

Any ways, for the record, EVA is a rather unpopular show, it has its' audience, but for the most part,
lots of these anime are more popular here. EVA is prime example. There are literally anime series
that were created in response to what EVA was saying, and to lots of people in the world, they
didn't feel like EVA was saying anything. It is a popular opinion that it was created as rubbish just to
be weird for the sake of weird. Especially many among my ranks, the older fans of anime, really like
to take on a distaste for EVA, really not even something worth doing, IMO, if you don't like
something, leave it the hell alone and move onto something you do like. Move out of the way! The
studio Gainax is known as rebels in their art form, really popular stuff to otaku & American fans &
otaku here. Their latest, FLCL(Furi Kuri) should have the first domestic DVD out in a week or
two. FLCL is a 4 episode OVA and has much parodies, and much to say about other anime, mainly
the Gundam property's ideas. One of their first works is known as Video no Otaku(see the humor in
the title?), so they're very much into things anime/social Japan, et cetra, and have things to say.

Pilot Candidate, it's unfair to call it an EVA rip, because if you want to get technical, there are
dozens of anime based on the scenario of the young kids piloting the robots and all that. That's the
story lots of them like to tell, when somebody sees a series about something, ideas can come in and
take over from there, call it derivative or inspiring, it doesn't much matter. It's perspective, very
much like some "for younger kids" anime, but there's some mind fu*k in there, too, that was just the
mood of story that was chosen to tell that story.

As for the dub, that's what we call dub title. It is a bad translation, when you see it in Japanese, you
know we're missing out on some meaning. The subtitles are, the English dub
dialogue(AAHHHRRRGGGGHH!!!!!). There are reasons why things are so bad with the PC. The
series is from '96(?), and was missing here for a while, no fansubs available of it, I've even heard that
the masters had been lost through the tradings of hands or something, so only very high quality
VHS/VCD looking DVDs with 2.0 sound exist :(, but I don't know. Nobody really has ever been
able to show me what the deal was with PC. I do like it, though.
I don't like comparing anime to anime, each one has to be judged on its' own set of perimeters.
Most other styles of 'toon, it's more evident, the love or hate thing, you know?

Ranma 1/2 has been on some public TV stations, I believe, subtitled with nudity, but I can't prove it.
EVA has also been broadcast on TV here subbed and uncut, but these are on private, public,
community access, whatever it is. I can't prove Eva, either, but they have.

It's safe to say that there's enough GREAT shows out there, that maybe some of them should be
coming on outside the block, or to another outlet. When's the last time CN starting showing an
anime without it being part of a block?

~oh, well, sorry 'bout the length. Pretty long and annoying for a first post, no:p?

[Sheamon]

I think its a relatively simple matter. Big O would have been a much better fit for Adult Swim Action. But they had a show that has been sitting around for something like 6 months. There's no visible place coming up for it on Toonami. So they dumped it on ASA to get it over with. Don't be surprised when its permanently removed after it ends and we don't see it again.


Originally posted by Z_E_R_O
What is that, '"younger 'Dragon Ball Z' set"'? I mean, come on. Shows may bypass alot of peoples'
personal preferences, but DBZ has been a favorite to alot of people, regardless of their age. DBZ is
one of those shows people must hate just because of what success it looks like it has. I guarantee
there would be thousands of fans if none of us had a way to watch it, lol. That's the natural order
within the nerd world. Hate what's popular, popularize what's hated, it makes us look 'smart'

Well what do you expect when the show's popularity forces other shows off the block? ^_^
I disagree, its a copout to say a lot of the haters of the show hate it simply because of its popularity. Because that completely absolves the blame from the show itself. I dislike DBZ because
1) the plot and characters are boring
2) the dub and music is horrible
3) 90% of the show is filler.
Popularity has nothing to do with it. The show is 'below' me, as simple as that. Less popular shows like Big O are judged on their quality. DBZ should be held to the same standard.



Any ways, for the record, EVA is a rather unpopular show, it has its' audience, but for the most part,
lots of these anime are more popular here.

Well that has a lot to do with the fact that they get the added exposure Eva doesn't get. Its not the most popular show out there and outside of Japan from 1995-1997 or so it never was, but it does quite good considering its never had the benefit of a national TV broadcast.


It is a popular opinion that it was created as rubbish just to be weird for the sake of weird. Especially many among my ranks, the older fans of anime, really like
to take on a distaste for EVA, really not even something worth doing, IMO, if you don't like
something, leave it the hell alone and move onto something you do like. Move out of the way!


And leave it just to the senseless praisers that never question a single aspect of the show? C'mon, criticism comes with everything. If you don't like it, tough. Thats what discussion is about. If everyone agreed with everyone else about everything there would be nothing to talk about. If someone hates Eva or any show, let them talk and hear what they say. As long as they post in an intelligent and thoughtful manner obviously :P


The
series is from '96(?), and was missing here for a while, no fansubs available of it, I've even heard that
the masters had been lost through the tradings of hands or something, so only very high quality
VHS/VCD looking DVDs with 2.0 sound exist

Hmm... I could have sworn that it was a lot newer than that. Atleast the CG animation portrays it that way.


Ranma 1/2 has been on some public TV stations, I believe, subtitled with nudity, but I can't prove it.
EVA has also been broadcast on TV here subbed and uncut, but these are on private, public,
community access, whatever it is. I can't prove Eva, either, but they have.

San Francisco if I remember correctly. Uncut, subtitled Eva, Lain and Key. *Oh why oh why can't I live there???* :(



~oh, well, sorry 'bout the length. Pretty long and annoying for a first post, no:p? Nah, thats fine. The long posts always much better than typical 2 sentence posts that just repeat what everyone else has said :yawn:

[Z_E_R_O]

I stand by that statement I made about DBZ. DBZ is simple, & very lovable, it is unlike other things. I find it interesting, this stand there & waste time thing that happens, it's very 'toony, IMO. There are also enough storylines, characters, different episodes, that I can think of it as being lots more than filer!

Yes, it's very "hip" to not like the norm. How many posts must I read where some kid says some crap like when I was young, and watched DBZ? Or, staements like the following? Anime, not stuff that comes on CN like DB.

"And leave it just to the senseless praisers that never question a single aspect of the show? C'mon, criticism comes with everything. If you don't like it, tough. Thats what discussion is about. If everyone agreed with everyone else about everything there would be nothing to talk about. If someone hates Eva or any show, let them talk and hear what they say."-Sheamon

There's a difference between talking about something, and being as anal and over-thinking as some of the otaku can be. There are plenty of sites and communities online surrounding anime. You can almost tell what each little otaku kid likes from what sites they visit! People like to have opinions, they just don't know when to stop with the opinions! Opinions can be quite damaging. One board I visit, these people'll post stuff, be like "this any good", somebody'll say "yeah", but then some otaku comes on, analyzes the life that's not in it out of it, and the original poster comes back with a "wow, I'm glad I did not waste my money on that", when the otaku, if anyone, should know that preferences can only be set by the individual. Not having an opinion can damage, too, that's what you're saying, right? Nice words, nice meeting you, too, Sheamon. 2 sentences, I can't stand that, unless something's said:).

I was just trying to set the mood talking about how EVA had no real popularity, as popularity goes in Japan, in fact, there are no new EVA products produced for sale in Japan at all! It's also the one the older fans like to trash, just because the otaku took to it so big(most those kids don't understand it, any ways, it's all just baseball cards). That was just a rewording, HUH! Here I go saying the same crap again.......

And you're right, BigO! would have been a better choice, PC could've blown Toonami up, but it never will now:rolleyes:. But I wouldn't have picked BigO!, either. PC airing alone or something would have been more desirable intead of blocking it.

This, misalignment of shows, even though I liked them all on Saturday, obviously raises debates. I've been thinking, it debunks everything to come out and bait bad situations by showing shows that stick out to kids, right? That is messed up. It's like saying Outlaw Star was too much for kids. Hell, it must be, since they did move it to where they moved it. OS, from the crappy ice cream to the space bugs, I knew some parent was going to ***** about that show, I wander if they did, but moving it to an adult block, what kind of guilt does that advertise? See, this is messing with my head, I swear the shows don't bother me, it even upsets me a little that the content for some the shows that are on AS, are not featured on AS:tFS because of what people think of them, cursed! But I swear they really are toying down there, lol! Can the damn things, who cares, scrap it, I want something to watch on Thursdays, and since everybody's this and that, Pilot Candidate, whipe them all out!

~phil
supporter of Pilot Candidate(on DVD).......

[Andy Mancini]

Okay, let me try to explain myself better. I wasn't ripping on "Dragon Ball/Z" fans. All I was saying was that the younger end of the DBZ fanbase would be better suited for PC rather than EVA. I wasn't making fun of DBZ fans at all. I am a big fan myself. Secondly, I wasn't trying to prove how much better EVA is to PC. I do have my opinions, but that is not the topic of my post. I was just trying to show that people (I know, I was one of them) started bashing a new show without completely thinking it though. After all, not every show is good right away. I still say that we give a few weeks before we shoot the master tapes to the moon.

EVA, to me, comes off as a cult show. You either like what they are doing, or revile it completely. Dragon Ball/DBZ was in this same boat in the days before national syndication and Cartoon Network came along. If EVA was shown on national television, as stated before, the popularity of this (or any, for that matter) show would rise because more people have access to it. Sci-fi Channel, for example, would be perfect for a show like that.

For the next point, I really didn't explain myself the first time around, so I'll explain now. When I was talking about "the terrible dub job", I wasn't talking about "losing some of the meaning". I was talking about everything else. The voice actors, for example, stunk royally. Now I've heard some bad voice acting in anime before, ranging from bad (Dragon Ball Z), to really bad (Ranma 1/2), to extremely bad (Speed Racer), but I have never heard ANYTHING as bad as that. It sounds like my friends and I did it in my basement! The other problem was that, even in "Speed Racer", heck, even in "The Iron Chef", they at least TRY to match words with mouth movements. They seemed that they really didn't give a darn about that with PC.

As far as "Ranma 1/2" goes, I do believe it will end up with a permanent spot on a national network, just not Cartoon Network. If anything, it will end up on either a premium station (Starz Action, Showtime) or one of those "high art" networks (Bravo, A&E). Those networks would show it with little or no edits, and unlike Cartoon Network, have lineups that would accomidate a show like that.

There it is. Hope that clears some stuff up.

DJ Gir

[Sheamon]

I stand by that statement I made about DBZ. DBZ is simple, & very lovable, it is unlike other things. I find it interesting, this stand there & waste time thing that happens, it's very 'toony, IMO. There are also enough storylines, characters, different episodes, that I can think of it as being lots more than filer!
Although to dislike it like myself doesn't automatically mean its due to popularity like you're implying with the "DBZ is
one of those shows people must hate just because of what success it looks like it has." statement. There has to be something there to cause you to hate something. "Its popular" isn't a reason. If anything this kind of thing happens because of the effect the show's popularity has (pushing everything else off Toonami for example) but its because the popular DBZ pushed off other shows, not simply because it is popular.


Yes, it's very "hip" to not like the norm.
Of course. But most 'fans' or 'forum members' aren't that way. The people who do it to be 'hip' tend to be the losers who have to make a name for themselves since they're not intelligent enough to do it through discussion.

:p

[Z_E_R_O]

Alright, DBZ, there are legitimate reasons for not liking it. I respect those, it's just I feel that for the most part, the bad rap it gets comes off its' popularity, from most people that is:p, and....

...PC, and the dub job. They can all sound like 1983 for all I care, as long as there's some kind of translation there. These dubbed up, dub titled shows leave much possibilty for inaccuracy and incompletion. Of course, there's NO dead on translations, dead-wrong ones entirely are undesirable. I'd rather they cut out fifty bloody necks than to start with a half-as*ed translation. It's like they wrote the business based off what they've been told, you know? Only part of the reason some mouths miss so badly.

[Bebop2168]

EVA is the **** lol. im trying to raise enuff $$ to get the whole thing on DVD , so far ihave 1 ..... collection #3. my friend has 1 and 2, i get jipped w/ only 3 eps, he has 4 on all his DVDs. just my luck lol. i gotta get 4 . EVA kikcs much ass. Rei is the best. ::newbie ..... wants an avatar :: :rolleyes: :yawn: :( :( :D :cool:

[Invader_Spooch]

God, you'll love the rest of EVA!!! I have the whole set, and the 4th and 5th DVD are when it starts to really get good! I would recommend you buy the box set, it comes with an improved version of the 1st DVD and slight improvement to the rest of the package (and a bad ass poser and box!)

[Z_E_R_O]

I didn't realize that they had in fact decided to release that cursed box set. FYI, everything I've read, only the first disc has been "upgraded", and that "upgrade" may in fact be a "down grade" which glitches out a glitch that is supposed to happen. Most people have no problems with their volume ones, though. I guess there are people who had problems, since it was being remastered, but to remaster the whole set would be ridiculous. They're not that old in comparrison to the first volume, that first disc was around for a while with the others being delayed in a fashion that spit them out very quickly and could easily suck the life out of your wallet! If they knew there were problems, they must have had time to stop the problems. Only the first & second have four on them, I think there's one with only two(?), but IMHO, ADV had to sell EVA like that because of the sheer number of bootlegs and d/ls traded that have been in existence, & I'm sure EVA was no cheap property to attain(lots of anime never get liscensed because the creators put such a high price to things, makes it some kind of a safety, or preventative, like if anybody's gonna use their stuff, it instantly raises "production" costs so high, makes it look undesirable to muck with). I think my friend has paid as little as $27 in a store around here, and $30 is alot for a disc, IMO, so EVA is an expensive boat to float. Please tell me that the box set is for real, that could help things.......

.....and I enjoy the mystery, I love the first few episodes, good stuff. Try watching some EVA Pulp Fiction style, lol! It messes with your head, makes you notice stuff and more stuff, and more of the story unravils to you, STRANGE.

[Gundam_Warrior]

Ok, I am not a message board king but I'll say my view. Ok a clone is not an evil thing. For example the Trigun, Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop deal. I like them all for different reasons but while most anime fans think Cowboy Bebop is the best I think Outlaw Star is better it's all about personally perferance I guess.
Me I personaly like all mecha anime like Big O, the Gundams, Escaflowne, Robotech/Macross, and many more. I plan on buy the Evangelion box set and when all of Pilot Canidate comes out I'll buy it. In the end it's down to personal opioion and plus the fact that Evangelion dosen't have a catgirl:)

[Scythemantis]

What`s with the characters in Pilot Candidate? A lot of them (all of them?) are obviously women dubbed as men. (At least it seems that way)