Batman #676 - 681 "Batman R.I.P." Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

Are you ready for "Batman R.I.P."?

BATMAN #676

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/wfboards/t-comicbatman.jpg (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/wfboards/comicbatman.jpg)

Written by: Grant Morrison
Art by: Tony Daniel and Sandu Florea
Cover by: Alex Ross

Beginning the epic story that will change the legend of the Dark Knight forever! Everything in Grant Morrison's groundbreaking run on Batman has been leading to this story, and nothing will ever be the same again. Who will live? Who will die? Who will be Batman? The answers are sure to shock you in "Batman R.I.P.," featuring artwork by Tony Daniel and Sandu Florea and covers by Alex Ross.

Comments?

[Jacob T. Paschal]

From the way Morrison has been putting it in interviews I begining to think Bruce forgives himself for the death of his parents and or trusts others can take care of Gotham or that Gotham has finally learned to stand on it's own feet.

But I imagine I am completely wrong.

[sdp]

Decided to jump on the book without knowing nothing, any background info any one can give me to better understand this would be appreciated.

I'm mostly confused with the whole black glove but I think that is the mystery of that will be solved right?

Pretty interesting read though, I'm actually interested in this storyline as long as its different than knightfall..


Edit: by the way I bet if this topic is renamed to "Batman R.I.P." #676-681, it'll get more replies as curious people will read the heading on the main forums page and lurk ;D

[Jin Kazama]

};2867682']I'm mostly confused with the whole black glove but I think that is the mystery of that will be solved right?

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first I've heard of the Black Glove, so I think they're new for this story.

Loving the story aside from a few things that irk me. Having Batman's love interest finding out he's Batman isn't really going for me, considering how we all know it won't work out. Seems kind of pointless. How she found out kicked all kinds of butt, though.

Also not digging the new Joker look. It's the only part of the "Movie Joker" that I hate, and to see it be cannon now in comics just annoys me. I hate when they alter comics to tie-into outside sources.

Still good, though.

I thought this was only in the actual "Batman" title, though. But the ads for it show it branching out into Detective, Nightwing, Robin and Batman/Outsiders. Odd considering Detective is supposed to have the return of Hush in an unrelated story. I hope they're just side-stories and not part of the official tale, because I'm really not into buying five Batman titles a month for the next 3-4.

[Richv1]

Well the story is just ok. I did love seeing the Joker in # 676 he is my favorote all time villian. He does whatever hes wants and just doesn't care about the consquences.


Richard Vasseur
www.jazmaonline.com (http://www.jazmaonline.com)

[Stu]

I thought this (and the lead up to it beforehand) were pretty much an incoherant mess. Whatever good ideas Morrison usually has are lost in a sea of bad storytelling and what I find to be a stupid ambition into tricking the reader to find out just what the bloody hell is going on.

Think I'll be missing the rest of this out.

[Jordo]

I'm very confused by those last few pages with the Joker. Was that actually happening or some sort of dream...or....



-Jordan

[Richv1]

I think it was happening but it comics who can really tell for sure.


Richard Vasseur
www.jazmaonline.com (http://www.jazmaonline.com)

[Miyamoto Musashi]

Are you ready for "Batman R.I.P."?The truth is:
NEVER
If Batman got sick and Dick took his place for a while is acceptable, but if Bruce Wayne dies; Batman dies.
Batman = "Bruce Wayne"
"Bruce Wayne" = Batman
No alternatives at all, absolutely none

[Mad Monkey 7]

The truth is:
NEVER
If Batman got sick and Dick took his place for a while is acceptable, but if Bruce Wayne dies; Batman dies.
Batman = "Bruce Wayne"
"Bruce Wayne" = Batman
No alternatives at all, absolutely none

Daimen Wayne = Batman Jr.

[James Harvey]

The storyline continues . . . Batman R.I.P.!

BATMAN #677

http://dccomics.com/media/product/9/3/9306_180x270.jpg (http://dccomics.com/media/product/9/3/9306_400x600.jpg)

Written by: Grant Morrison
Art by: Tony Daniel and Sandu Florea

Continuing "Batman R.I.P," the epic story that will change the legend of the Dark Knight forever! As the life of Bruce Wayne takes an interesting turn with Jezebel Jet, the life of Batman falls into the ultimate downward spiral.

Comments?

Please note that due to the Memorial Day Weekend, some stores will not receive new comics until Thursday.

[danreyes1]

This is by far the most convoluted storyline I have ever read. I find it amazing how Morrison is poised to pull the rug out from almost seven decades of Batman history while making it seem acceptable and believable.

Yes, Batman's mad. We've known that for years. It's been touched upon numerous times. But this looks to be the first time it might seriously affect our favourite Black Knight.

[DisneyBoy]

So someone fill me in...is this storyline supposed to kill off Batman, but not Bruce? Or Bruce, but not Batman? Or is it a metaphorical death? An alternate reality? A publicity stunt that just hasn't succeeded in getting press?

[AlgeaX]

The truth is:
NEVER
If Batman got sick and Dick took his place for a while is acceptable, but if Bruce Wayne dies; Batman dies.
Batman = "Bruce Wayne"
"Bruce Wayne" = Batman
No alternatives at all, absolutely none

Relax Man, It's comics. He'll be back in time for the next movie.

[danreyes1]

So someone fill me in...is this storyline supposed to kill off Batman, but not Bruce? Or Bruce, but not Batman? Or is it a metaphorical death? An alternate reality? A publicity stunt that just hasn't succeeded in getting press?

According to Morrison, this is "The end of Bruce Wayne as Batman". Take that as you will.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

So a classmate tells me that Thomas Wayne is revealed to be alive and did a bunch of horrid things, like hiring somebody to kill his crack addict of a wife and that Alfred is Bruce's dad.

I then told him Morrison is a hack [if this is true]. This didn't really happen here, did it?

[danreyes1]

So a classmate tells me that Thomas Wayne is revealed to be alive and did a bunch of horrid things, like hiring somebody to kill his crack addict of a wife and that Alfred is Bruce's dad.

I then told him Morrison is a hack [if this is true]. This didn't really happen here, did it?

It was implied that this happened, by an insidious-looking man. Nothing's been proven, as of yet. We'll have to wait and see.

[Russkafin]

It was implied that this happened, by an insidious-looking man. Nothing's been proven, as of yet. We'll have to wait and see.

Yes, but remember at the start of part one, it is implied that the Black Glove has the power to falsify information... like when they kill that man, plant a suicide note on him and then alter old records to make it look like he had a history of depression and mental illness. So, I am guessing the Black Glove also falsified these old reports of Thomas Wayne being such a scumbag.


ISo someone fill me in...is this storyline supposed to kill off Batman, but not Bruce? Or Bruce, but not Batman? Or is it a metaphorical death? An alternate reality? A publicity stunt that just hasn't succeeded in getting press?

We're not sure yet. I am guessing the latter, most certainly, but as for the rest, who knows.....

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Oh, well thank goodness then, he had not told me that. He should have been more clear on the thing. >.>

[Richv1]

From what I have heard Batman/Brice is going to Hell but only for the summer he will be back after that. Maybe DC wants him out of the way for some event.


Richard Vasseur
www.jazmaonline.com

[Wonderwall]

From what I have heard Batman/Brice is going to Hell but only for the summer he will be back after that. Maybe DC wants him out of the way for some event.


Richard Vasseur
www.jazmaonline.com (http://www.jazmaonline.com)

Cuz nothing screams Batman like going to hell:shrug:. Honestly, I can take some outlandish stories with Bats if he's with the JL, but in his comics, unless Ra's is involved, there should be minimal supernatural garbage.

[Wolf Boy2]

Cuz nothing screams Batman like going to hell:shrug:. Honestly, I can take some outlandish stories with Bats if he's with the JL, but in his comics, unless Ra's is involved, there should be minimal supernatural garbage.
And nothing screams Spider-Man like making a deal with Satan.:evil:

Face it, bro: comics today suck. I haven't read a new Batman title in over a year, and from what I've seen on here, I don't want to. I'll get my Batfix from classics like Long Halloween or Mad Love.

[Samhaine]

I thought this (and the lead up to it beforehand) were pretty much an incoherant mess. Whatever good ideas Morrison usually has are lost in a sea of bad storytelling and what I find to be a stupid ambition into tricking the reader to find out just what the bloody hell is going on.

Think I'll be missing the rest of this out.
I actually reread the entirety of the Morrison run today, and I've found it to be incredibly cohesive. The Joker prose issue sets up a lot of the themes he would be exploring over the course of the buildup to RIP. The "trigger" as seen in this issue - and reference in January's issue, if not earlier - was first seen in the first issue of the run. It's been graffittied all over Gotham.

Bringing in Damien raises questions about the line of Batman succession, is it Dick, Tim, Damien (the true son), Terry - that is, if Bruce does in fact stop being Batman for a period of time, or even if it's only thought about over the course of this storyline.

The Three Batmen (the first of which appeared on page 1 of #655), the Club of Villains and the Black Glove seem to have a connection, making this storyline a convergence of all the previous arcs.

I think this has all been brilliantly set up. Now, everything rests on how the mystery ends. Morrison showed he can do long-term mystery plotting with the Planet X story in his New X-Men run. I'm hoping it's that Morrison, and not the one who wrote Seven Soldiers #1, who comes to the table over the next few issues.

[Miyamoto Musashi]

Face it, bro: comics today suck.
Even Superman, JLA, X-MEN and DareDevil?

[Batman91]

Heads up. Possible spoilers with my question.

I'm still confused. What did happen at the end of the first issue with The Joker? Did mass killings happen? Are Nightwing and Robin dead? Cool reveal at the end that Jokers gonna be involved, but I'm still confused about it.

[Jin Kazama]

I'm going with "no" on the Joker Killing thing. Robin's solicitations for the next few months show him alive and kicking with no mention at all of him being injured. Nightwing's does, but it's from a gunshot wound.

I always interpreted the scene as being all in jokers mind.

[Samhaine]

Heads up. Possible spoilers with my question.

I'm still confused. What did happen at the end of the first issue with The Joker? Did mass killings happen? Are Nightwing and Robin dead? Cool reveal at the end that Jokers gonna be involved, but I'm still confused about it.
Everything but the last page was in the Joker's mind. The colorist messed up and put blood all over him when he should've been clean, which would be the indicator it was a hallucination. That's also why it was in black and white.

It's a huge mistake because it's such a pivitol scene, but at this point, you just have to read it as if there was no blood and he was clean.

[James Harvey]

The storyline continues!

BATMAN #678

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/dccomics/200806/dcu/sm/BM-Cv678_solicit.jpg (http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/dccomics/200806/dcu/BM-Cv678_solicit.jpg)

Written by: Grant Morrison
Art by: Tony Daniel and Sandu Florea

Part 3 of Batman R.I.P.! Batman's mysterious adversary has won. All is lost for the Dark Knight. Bruce Wayne is now deranged and dissociated, wandering homeless in the alleys of Gotham City. Is there a chance that Bruce can rebuild his Batman identity from scratch, or is this truly the end for one of the world's finest heroes?

Comments?

[Harlan_Phoenix]

From what I have heard Batman/Bruce is going to Hell but only for the summer he will be back after that. Maybe DC wants him out of the way for some event.


Richard Vasseur
www.jazmaonline.com (http://www.jazmaonline.com)

That bolded part made me laugh so hard.

Why, DC? Why? Batman should not make me lol.

[wonderfly]

Posted on behalf of James Harvey, who's on vacation this week:

Batman #679

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/dccomics/batman/allstarmorrison/BM-Cv679_solicit_sm.jpg

Written by Grant Morrison
Art by Tony Daniel and Sandu Florea
Cover by Alex Ross
Variant Cover by Daniel

The Story:
"Batman R.I.P." — Part 4! Robin and Damian team up — yes, you read that right — to search for the missing Batman. Meanwhile, the Club of Villains — The Hunchback, Pierrot Lunaire, King Kraken, Charlie Caligula, Scorpiana and El Sombrero — rampage through Gotham City! This incredible fourth chapter of "Batman R.I.P." ends with the surprising return of a character you never thought!

Comments? What are your thoughts?!?

[Richv1]

I ordered the last part of this storyline just to see how it finishes up. But I have not really been following it. Just curious enough to see the ending.


Richard Vasseur
www.jazmaonline.com

[ShadowStar]

How's this storyline coming along? I haven't been reading it, but I've been wondering if it's an enjoyable read.

[rggkjg1]

How's this storyline coming along? I haven't been reading it, but I've been wondering if it's an enjoyable read.
it's enjoyable, but pretty confusing to me at some parts. i think the entire story is pretty much one big/long dream sequence. if you've been reading the previous morrison stories, you should like this one.

[James Harvey]

The storyline continues!

BATMAN #680

http://dccomics.com/media/product/9/9/9922_180x270.jpg (http://dccomics.com/media/product/9/9/9922_400x600.jpg)

Written by: Grant Morrison
Art by: Tony Daniel and Sandu Florea

It's Batman R.I.P. part 5 – and this issue features two events so monumental that one comic can barely contain them! First, Batman faces off against The Club of Villains. Then, The Joker makes his stand, challenging the Dark Knight to the ultimate battle of wits. Will Batman survive either of these threats – or could this be the end of Gotham City's greatest hero?

Comments?

[Samhaine]

I ordered the last part of this storyline just to see how it finishes up. But I have not really been following it. Just curious enough to see the ending.
I'll be honest with you - If you haven't been following Morrison's Batman run pretty much from the start, R.I.P. as a whole, let alone the last part of the arc, is going to fall pretty flat for you. The story has been the culmination of everything he's done so far, going all the way back to "Batman and Son."

I imagine this is the reason for all the complaints I've seen so far; people are hoping on for this one arc, not remembering that Morrison writes macroplots (see New X-Men). It's only in his limited series that he writes for the quick jump-on/jump-off.

[Russkafin]

Anyone still reading this? Surprised no one has commented on the latest issue... after years of various writers hinting at it, it seems Joker does indeed know that Bruce Wayne is Batman.

[dark knight 90]

Anyone still reading this? Surprised no one has commented on the latest issue... after years of various writers hinting at it, it seems Joker does indeed know that Bruce Wayne is Batman.

I never noticed that...

The whole arc is beginning to get lost on me... with one final issue left too! :confused:


Maybe I should have picked up Robin, Nightwing and B and the outsiders as well.

[Ed Liu]

Anyone still reading this? Surprised no one has commented on the latest issue... after years of various writers hinting at it, it seems Joker does indeed know that Bruce Wayne is Batman.

I finally read my Batman and Son TPB, and there's a line in that prose thing with the Joker which seemed to indicate he knew who Batman really was in there as well. Something about Batman being a millionaire orphan.

I can understand how someone could have missed that in there, because it's a HUGE sea of straight text that's damn near incomprehensible in parts.

-- Ed

[bishospidey]

Face it, bro: comics today suck. I haven't read a new Batman title in over a year, and from what I've seen on here, I don't want to. I'll get my Batfix from classics like Long Halloween or Mad Love.
i am sure that u didnt mean spiderman ...!!!

[rggkjg1]

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS. THE MEDIA DOES IT AGAIN: (IMDB.COM POSSIBLY SPOILS THE END)
http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0612814/

I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS. I'M TIRED OF THE MEDIA SPOILING COMIC BOOK STORIES BEFORE THEY COME OUT. WHO DO I FILE A COMPLAINT WITH SO THIS WILL STOP?

[Robin2099]

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS. THE MEDIA DOES IT AGAIN: (IMDB.COM POSSIBLY SPOILS THE END)
http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0612814/

I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS. I'M TIRED OF THE MEDIA SPOILING COMIC BOOK STORIES BEFORE THEY COME OUT. WHO DO I FILE A COMPLAINT WITH SO THIS WILL STOP?

No one because no one would really care. Heck, do you think Marvel cared about the media leaking Cap's death or that DC cares about this?

[rggkjg1]

No one because no one would really care. Heck, do you think Marvel cared about the media leaking Cap's death or that DC cares about this?
i'm so glad that they don't care about the fans who buy and read their comics. if this news came out the day after the issue came out, then fine. to spoil a story the day of or days before is just uncalled for.

if you have something like this and post it on the internet it's expected to mention a spoiler before you continue with what you have. the media should do the same.

anyway, i'm worked up because of the principle of the matter. i'm tired of the media spoiling major comic stories. i'm not worked up because of the content in the link. the article seemed so vague that they really had no idea what was going on in the story. i bet the person who wrote this saw the name of the story, assumed the title was literal and that batman would die, and wrote a quick story based on nothing.

bruce wayne/batman will not die. he will not "retire". if he "dies" i won't believe it because this entire arc has been almost like a dream sequence anyway. so i have no idea what is "real" and what isn't. god forbid if bruce/batman actually physically dies, guess what, this is comics, and what happens when a major character is killed? THEY COME BACK TO LIFE!

BRUCE/BATMAN WILL NOT DIE! END OF STORY!

[slave2comics]

batman is gonna retire and nightwing is taking his place.

[Silly McGooses]

Grant Morrison needs to be stopped. Legit STOPPED.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

It's about damn time Bruce retired or was killed. It's time to give the cape to Dick!

[Rud]

It's about damn time Bruce retired or was killed. It's time to give the cape to Dick!

hell no:mad:, Batman is Bruce Wayne, he cant just pass it on to someone else, not permanently anyway. Itd be a travesty if they off Bats.

[J'onn J'onzz]

It's called "Batman R.I.P.", you guys. Were you expecting him to live?

[Jacob T. Paschal]

hell no:mad:, Batman is Bruce Wayne, he cant just pass it on to someone else, not permanently anyway. Itd be a travesty if they off Bats.

It's time for the name to mean something else, his legacy should no longer be just about Bruce Wayne's childhood trauma because to the world Batman is a symbol of hope. All things must come to an end and his time has.

[James Harvey]

This is it – Batman R.I.P. concludes here!

BATMAN #681

http://dccomics.com/media/product/1/0/10341_180x270.jpg (http://dccomics.com/media/product/1/0/10341_400x600.jpg)

Written by: Grant Morrison
Art by: Tony Daniel and Sandu Florea

The final, heartrending confrontation between Bruce Wayne and Jezebel Jet. The final fate of The Dark Knight. And the horrifying and shocking truth behind the Black Glove. With The Joker, the Club of Villains, Robin, Damian, plus an ending you'll never see coming – this one has it all!

Comments?

[Hanshotfirst113]

I thought this (and the lead up to it beforehand) were pretty much an incoherant mess. Whatever good ideas Morrison usually has are lost in a sea of bad storytelling and what I find to be a stupid ambition into tricking the reader to find out just what the bloody hell is going on.

Think I'll be missing the rest of this out.

You don't sound like a Grant Morrison fan ;).

[Samhaine]

I don't have time to comment on the ending, or at least, write what I feel this issue deserves at the moment, but I must say, having been two-three months behind on most of my books, and waiting until after 681 to read the Outsiders R.I.P. tie-in, the storyline was much better than I thought it would be, and actually makes sense as the first post-R.I.P. arc, even before the current Robin arc. I'll probably reread the Nightwing issue I've read to see if it also works that way (Detective obviously acting more as a prelude). I generally detest Tieri, but this was average enough that I didn't outright hate it, like I did Gotham Underground. Can't wait for Tomasi, though.

In short, though, overall, "R.I.P." was great. Can't wait until the next two issues come out, then it's off to reread the entire Morrison run. Again.

[Jin Kazama]

Spoilerific, guys. Not in tags, because the title says "Spoilers", but considering the title came out just today, heads up.

Regarding the last issue of "Batman: R.I.P." :

LAME

Seriously. That was bad. The story arc as a whole was bad. And, no, that's not from a guy that jumped on just for this arc. I've been reading this Batman title since The Red Hood monthly, so I'm up to date.

But you're telling me that this whole thing was a plot by some washed up bodydouble/actor? That's the Black Glove? That Joker had zero to do with Batman's death. That's what's horrible. It's like they threw him in there for the hell of it. He had no impact on Bruce going "insane," and played no part on his death. Just just fought him for one issue, paralyzed him with Joker stuff, and that was it. He had little to no bearing on the plot, they just wanted to use Joker in the "ultimate Batman story." Oh yeah, and if you ever wanted to know how to beat The Joker? Make him drive off a bridge. Works like a charm, apparently.

Oh, yeah. And he wasn't insane, or duped by Jet. He knew it all along, just played along to discover who the Black Glove is. So all that crap about Zur En Ahh or whatever, Tatterd Rags Batman 2.0 and Bat Mite? Yeah, he knew that, man. All planned.:rolleyes:. Because when you intentionally create a dual personality, that's what you pick.

And the real kicker? Bruce survived multiple grueling tests, PUNCHED DARKSEID, and got his back BROKEN IN HALF, and what does him off? An easily escapable plane crash? So incredibly lame.

You know what made the Death of Cap so well done? How great it was written, how well it was planned out, and how it was done to advance the plot. How you know Steve Rogers will probably come back, but how it is now, you wouldn't really mind it if he didn't. This was done just for the hell for the hell of it.

Watch, I'm calling it right now. Battle for the Cowl ends with Bruce reclaiming it.

[sleepydumbdude]

Spoilerific, guys. Not in tags, because the title says "Spoilers", but considering the title came out just today, heads up.

Regarding the last issue of "Batman: R.I.P." :

LAME

Seriously. That was bad. The story arc as a whole was bad. And, no, that's not from a guy that jumped on just for this arc. I've been reading this Batman title since The Red Hood monthly, so I'm up to date.

But you're telling me that this whole thing was a plot by some washed up bodydouble/actor? That's the Black Glove? That Joker had zero to do with Batman's death. That's what's horrible. It's like they threw him in there for the hell of it. He had no impact on Bruce going "insane," and played no part on his death. Just just fought him for one issue, paralyzed him with Joker stuff, and that was it. He had little to no bearing on the plot, they just wanted to use Joker in the "ultimate Batman story." Oh yeah, and if you ever wanted to know how to beat The Joker? Make him drive off a bridge. Works like a charm, apparently.

Oh, yeah. And he wasn't insane, or duped by Jet. He knew it all along, just played along to discover who the Black Glove is. So all that crap about Zur En Ahh or whatever, Tatterd Rags Batman 2.0 and Bat Mite? Yeah, he knew that, man. All planned.:rolleyes:. Because when you intentionally create a dual personality, that's what you pick.

And the real kicker? Bruce survived multiple grueling tests, PUNCHED DARKSEID, and got his back BROKEN IN HALF, and what does him off? An easily escapable plane crash? So incredibly lame.

You know what made the Death of Cap so well done? How great it was written, how well it was planned out, and how it was done to advance the plot. How you know Steve Rogers will probably come back, but how it is now, you wouldn't really mind it if he didn't. This was done just for the hell for the hell of it.

Watch, I'm calling it right now. Battle for the Cowl ends with Bruce reclaiming it.


I agree. I "wtf this is lame"'ing all through the book. I've been keeping up on batman since like the whole bruce wayne fugitive stuff. I think this is one of the worst story lines I've read. Another thing funny with all the marketing to the newspapers and such. I can just imagine what reading this story is like for someone who really doesn't know wtf is going on and just picked it up to see batman die. Reading this arc sure wouldn't get me interested in reading anymore.

[Goodfellow]

So did Batman actually die? If so, how?

Of course, we all know dying in comic books means calling in sick for 2 weeks before coming back.

[Samhaine]

So did Batman actually die? If so, how?
It's ambiguous, in a the helicopter blew up as it was hitting the water kind of way. However, right before that, there was an implication that even if he survived, he'd not be back as Batman anytime soon, thanks to a post-hypnotic trigger. But Morrison's been extremely subtle throughout this entire arc (and in Final Crisis, really), so perhaps something said so explicitly isn't meant to be taken at face value.

[Rud]

So did Batman actually die? If so, how?

sleepydumbdude said he gets killed by a plane crash.


Of course, we all know dying in comic books means calling in sick for 2 weeks before coming back.
I really hope this is the case for Bats.

[W.C.Reaf]

It was.... ok.

I'm waiting for the next issue ("Last Rites") before I make up my mind one way or the other.

I did find this issue to be a bit rushed in the ending department. The story does seem far from over since there are so many things left unsaid. Like why anyone (in the story) would believe Batman died from a Helicopter crash. He could've easily gotten away from it and if there was no body found I doubt Bruce's friends/family would stop looking for him.

I did like how the end of the story is the first page of the first issue in the arc.

I'm wondering why some people say it won't be Batman without Bruce. He trained many people and can be replayed by any one of them. What's so special about Bruce that he has to be Batman?

[Jin Kazama]

I'm wondering why some people say it won't be Batman without Bruce. He trained many people and can be replayed by any one of them. What's so special about Bruce that he has to be Batman?

I've always said that, despite how I feel about the idea behind it, if it's good, I'll read it. If they do it well, I'm all for Dick being Batman. As much as I like Tim, in his own title, he's not even graduated High School. Heck, I don't think he's even a Senior. So unless Battle For The Cowl takes place five years from now, I can't believe Tim as Batman.

My complaint isn't with Bruce not being Batman, but that I know DC won't pull the trigger on it. Despite how iconic Captain America is to Marvel, Batman means a lot more to DC. He's their cash cow. They won't take that chance.

[rggkjg1]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

im sorry, this issue is just too priceless. the "real" thomas wayne comes back to kill his own son. batman "dies" in a helicopter crash over the ocean. wow. i expected to see batman get "killed" in way that you'd think he couldn't recover from. maybe like getting shot in the head. so i guess batman/bruce makes it looks like he's dead to stop the black hand from spreading the "rumors" of his allies. it's so obvious now.

early in the run i also thought it was really stupid that bruce revealed his identity to jezebel. i almost threw a fit because he reveals his identity to a brand new character who first appeared in an issue before hand.

honestly, i could have done without all this nonsence. bruce will be back anyway, so this story and whatever the future of a "dead" bruce wayne batman stories are, will be completely pointless.

[W.C.Reaf]

Here's the kicker:

Bruce/Batman is in Final Crisis which is set some time after the helicopter crash, but before the "six months later" bit at the end of the issue, and he'll die in that story (said by Morrison himself). So depending on what happens in FC it might make RIP useless.

With that and the next issue coming out in a week that's supposed to cover the "aftermath" there's more to the death of Batman than just the crash.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Here's the kicker:

Bruce/Batman is in Final Crisis which is set some time after the helicopter crash, but before the "six months later" bit at the end of the issue, and he'll die in that story (said by Morrison himself). So depending on what happens in FC it might make RIP useless.

With that and the next issue coming out in a week that's supposed to cover the "aftermath" there's more to the death of Batman than just the crash.

My God, why the hell must everything be some sort of spectacle?

[Hanshotfirst113]

sleepydumbdude said he gets killed by a plane crash.

I really hope this is the case for Bats.

DC won't get rid of Batman. Comics are essentially a staple of properties that Marvel and DC can turn into action figures, movies, etc. No matter what writers do, things tend to swing back to the status quo. The more things change, the more stay the same.



My God, why the hell must everything be some sort of spectacle?

Because, sadly, that's what sells.

[calimike]

The Sun is look at end of Batman (Warning: Spoiler Alert)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/film/article1982939.ece

[Jacob T. Paschal]

The Sun is look at end of Batman (Warning: Spoiler Alert)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/film/article1982939.ece

Nah, I'd say Thomas Wayne died that night in the alley, literally or not. Bruce has to have the cohones to believe that.

[W.C.Reaf]

The Sun is look at end of Batman (Warning: Spoiler Alert)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/film/article1982939.ece

Please tell me there are other news articles RIP has appeared in. I'd really hate to think it only rated as high (low) as the freaking Sun.

[WrenchNinja]

Please tell me there are other news articles RIP has appeared in. I'd really hate to think it only rated as high (low) as the freaking Sun.

BBC good enough for you?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/7753966.stm

[rggkjg1]

maybe the major news outlets that spoiled spider-man revealing his identity and the death of captain america are ignoring this one because BATMAN/BRUCE IS NOT DEAD!

or they are bias to marvel comics. ;)

[Ed Liu]

I haven't been reading (truth be told, I'm not sure I'm all that interested, since "Batman and Son" didn't do a lot for me in TPB), but of all the heroes in the DC pantheon, it seems that Batman is the one who's most likely to meet an end that is entirely out of whack with his stature. I distinctly remember a comic when Batman was thinking about this, with a line that said something about how he might go in a blaze of glory in a showdown with the Joker, or that he might die in an alley from just some street punk getting a lucky shot.

That being said, I didn't expect them to actually DO the disappointing death (and also don't think at all that it's going to be a permanent one), and the execution does sound pretty lame. But, as I said, I was less than impressed by Morrison's debut arc and don't know that I'm interested enough to keep going, especially with all this Final Crisis stuff tying into it.

I also think that Batman really is Bruce Wayne, just as Superman is Clark Kent, and I don't think that's a mantle that can really be passed on the way that the Atom, Hawkman, Green Lantern, or the Flash can. I never felt that Terry McGinnis was really Batman in Batman Beyond, and I'm not sure I could even see Dick Grayson taking on the role. The time I saw Dick come closest was in the JLA "Obsidian Age" arc, and even then, I felt like there was recognition that Dick/Nightwing might be able to fill Batman's role among the meta-humans, but there was just no way he could ever fill Batman's shoes.

-- Ed

[DR.MID-NITE]

I haven't read the stories. Can someone give me a quick rundown of what the whole RIP storyline was about and how did it end? I cannot believe Bruce Wayne won't be Bats permanently.

[rggkjg1]

I distinctly remember a comic when Batman was thinking about this, with a line that said something about how he might go in a blaze of glory in a showdown with the Joker, or that he might die in an alley from just some street punk getting a lucky shot.
yeah, i remember this too. i wish i could remember where i read that though.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

I also think that Batman really is Bruce Wayne, just as Superman is Clark Kent, and I don't think that's a mantle that can really be passed on the way that the Atom, Hawkman, Green Lantern, or the Flash can. I never felt that Terry McGinnis was really Batman in Batman Beyond, and I'm not sure I could even see Dick Grayson taking on the role. The time I saw Dick come closest was in the JLA "Obsidian Age" arc, and even then, I felt like there was recognition that Dick/Nightwing might be able to fill Batman's role among the meta-humans, but there was just no way he could ever fill Batman's shoes.

-- Ed

Above all though, doesn't Bruce want Batman to be more about hope for Gotham than his own demons? So long as his trusts his sucessor I think he'd golden with dying.

[Hanshotfirst113]

I distinctly remember a comic when Batman was thinking about this, with a line that said something about how he might go in a blaze of glory in a showdown with the Joker, or that he might die in an alley from just some street punk getting a lucky shot.

That was in the BTAS episode "I Am the Night." I might well be in the comics some place too though.

[Ed Liu]

Above all though, doesn't Bruce want Batman to be more about hope for Gotham than his own demons? So long as his trusts his sucessor I think he'd golden with dying.

This is true, but it's also not really terribly relevant. If you ask me, one of Batman's defining character traits is that he is completely, totally, unhealthily obsessed with his war on crime. I think that's one of the reasons he's portrayed as being so demanding (to the point of being a complete jerk) on his partners and the other costumed superheroes he deals with -- it's not that they're incompetent, but they're just not as obsessed with the war as he is. They'll miss things because they're not as meticulous. They'll stop or they'll quit. He won't. That obsessive drive and determination is why he can hold his own with the Justice League despite having no powers whatsoever. The hope he holds out that he will be unnecessary someday is the best psychological defense he can come up with to keep him from plunging straight into the depths and becoming a mass murderer.


That was in the BTAS episode "I Am the Night." I might well be in the comics some place too though.

That might have been it, actually, though I could have sworn I remembered reading that someplace as well. It wouldn't have been the first time BTAS cribbed from the comics, though.

In any event, Grant Morrison himself had this to say in the Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article5257656.ece) (could be construed as spoilerish):
Or does he? Morrison hints that we’ve seen the last of Wayne. But what of Batman? “Well, do you really think a helicopter crash is enough to kill Batman?” he laughs. “The ultimate story of Batman is ongoing. Don’t forget he’s been around a while. He's 70 next year. The story of these characters is never ending.” So instead of dwelling on Wayne’s death, Morrison is looking ahead to the vigilante crime fighter’s next incarnation. “We all know that the status quo will be restored but I have to make it as exciting as I can before we get there,” he says.
Of course, this same article also seems to think that Grant Morrison had something to do with the Death of Superman in 1992. In any event, Morrison has more to say about his approach to writing these things in that article.

-- Ed

[danreyes1]

Am I missing something? What was the big "twist" ending? That Dr. Hurt might be Dr. Thomas Wayne? That was already established a few issues earlier. Morrison already revealed somewhere along the line that Bruce is still Batman in Final Crisis, so we know he isn't dead and hasn't stopped being Batman. Nothing seems to have been confirmed one way or another. So what was the big reveal that was going to knock me off my feet?