The Spectacular Spider-Man "Reaction" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Stu]

The Green Goblin returns as Doc Ock debuts! Sucks to be Spidey!


http://marvel.toonzone.net/specspidey/talkback.jpg

Episode #8: Reaction
Original Airdate - May 3rd 2008

Peter Parker and Spider-Man learn that actions have consequences when nebbishy Dr. Otto Octavius becomes the megalomaniacal Doctor Octopus. The cause: Green Goblin; the effect: Mayhem!!

Comments?

[ShadowStar]

Not to be picky, but it's "Reaction". :sweat:

With what looks like the first proper interaction between Gwen and MJ, this is sure to be a good episode... :D

[JRP82190]

didn't see the whole thing but i love what i saw

[LucarioPK]

Great episode. I loved that little "surprise" at the end of the episode.

[Anwar]

Well, I was right over Peter being at Coney Island for a date. I just didn't think it would be with Liz.

Thought Sally's reaction to the entire incident was semi-hilarious, how absorbed can a girl be in her own little world?!

Slightly more credit to the idea of Harry being the Goblin.

John's off, and we know who he's bringing back...

Still no proper interaction between Gwen and MJ, nuts...

[JRP82190]

Did anyone else see how harry just jumped over gwen and left her there to die

[batsy2]

Well, I was right over Peter being at Coney Island for a date. I just didn't think it would be with Liz.

Thought Sally's reaction to the entire incident was semi-hilarious, how absorbed can a girl be in her own little world?!

Slightly more credit to the idea of Harry being the Goblin.

John's off, and we know who he's bringing back...

Still no proper interaction between Gwen and MJ, nuts...

as greg says things will start to get dark and we will finally see the most dangerous enemy of all and also sally is full of it peter did nothing wrong i hope he takes his frustration oiut on her

[thedanmachine]

Really good episode, moved things along on both the Peter Parker side of things and on the Spider-man side.

Action felt kinda lacking for the episode but it was written really well. Loved spidey's line about the correlation of number of arms and sanity.

Cant wait for next week.

[Rud]

i wonder where this whole Ned Leeds sub-plot is headed.

[batsy2]

i wonder where this whole Ned Leeds sub-plot is headed.
probably leading up to season 3 if they get one where he becomes the hobgoblin

[Rud]

probably leading up to season 3 if they get one where he becomes the hobgoblin

mmmm, i hope they use that Kingsley guy instead.

[Anwar]

Ned will either stumble onto the Goblin's secret somehow and sell it to Kingsley (who in turn becomes Hobgoblin and brainwashes Ned), or he becomes frustrated with a lack of success and his reputation with the Bugle is damaged. The Hobgoblin sees him as a good stand-in since he's already mad at Spidey and makes him the Phony-Goblin.

[kid rabbit]

actully felt sorry for otto when he says "I'VE BEEN GOOD":(

[Anwar]

Yeah, the other Ottos were all arrogant jerks (or just arrogant in the movie case) who were ultimately responsible for their accidents. This Otto was innocent (well he did help in making the supervillains so he is a criminal accessory).

[theRedDeath]

Anyone else notice the picture of Otto and Adrian Tombs hanging in Dock Ock's apartment. Guess when the Sinister Six teams up, they'll already know each other.

---

[batsy2]

Anyone else notice the picture of Otto and Adrian Tombs hanging in Dock Ock's apartment. Guess when the Sinister Six teams up, they'll already know each other.

---
i did i noticed that i thought that was cool

[Donomark]

I noticed it too and was also hoping for a future Sin-Six team up.

This was another great one. I was concerned that Doc Ock wouldn't live up to his potential since he's been such a wuss up until now, but he delivered all right. Especially the part where he nearly kills Liz Allen. That enitre Coney Isle subplot was excellent and I loved the whole "Harry's a jerk/druggie" subplot their shoving down our throats. The action was great, and I loved the quip line Spidey gave which seemed to me like a kiss to complaints of the Spider-Movie trilogy.

[Rick Jones]

Action-wise, I don't think these last two episodes were particularly special in comparison to the previous episodes, but I'm enjoying seeing what everything is leading up to. This episode was jam packed with little details that feel like they'll actually matter later on. Moments that I personally thought were awesome included Pete and Liz's ill-fated date and seeing Flash try to step up and do some good by offering to help Spidey. Doc Ock was pretty cool and it was nice seeing that he still has some progression to make on his way to being a very major threat.

[R-Taco]

Ock is such a badass.

The "I'VE BEEN GOOD!" line did a great job of making you feel bad for him, and his little dream sequence about attacking Norman showed that his ruthless side didn't come out of nowhere. This is also probably my favorite Doc Ock design so far.

I enjoyed the little sight gags, like Spidey standing in front of the "Hit the Freak!" target, and the little plush octopus.

[GregX]

"Reactions"
Well, my reaction is that was certainly an awesome episode.

Let's see, where to begin. I've been waiting to see Otto's transformation and it was well done. Gone is the meek, subservient Otto "Yes, Mr. Osborn. Whatever you say, Mr. Osborn" Octavius, and now we have the the ruthless and psychotic Dr. Octopus. I need to extend my compliments to Peter MacNicol for the contrast in both versions of the good doctor.

The Spider-Man/Dr. Octopus battles were great. From their first encounter at OsCorp, where Ock in his paranoia believed that Spidey discovered he created supervillains to the attack on Tri Corp and their battle at Coney Island (Enjoy Coney Island while it's there, it's being torn down). And damn, not too long ago, Otto could probably never bring himself to put a girl like Liz in harm's way. How he's changed. I look forward to him leading the Sinister Six.

"My fans expect a certain amount of quipage in every battle." You tell him, Spidey! That was one of the many reasons the movies were a disappointment.

But, Peter Parker's civilian life is always just as interesting as his superhero life. Poor sap, thought he and Mary Jane had something going. Not yet, Pete. Your time will come, be patient... but be warned, Joe Quesada... er, I mean, Mephisto will conspire to take it away from you. In the mean time, enjoy your time with Liz. And with Liz and Flash now broken up, he might have a shot there.

Let's see. Peter wins an octopus for Liz. Ock is defeated on the octopus ride. And this is the eighth episode. Cute. Very cute.

Harry Osborn is now a junkie. Just like in the original comics, only instead of acid, he's been raiding his dad's medicine cabinet for Globulin Green #994. It's a good way to do Stan Lee's drug story without using a real drug that would make S&P balk. It explains why he's good at football all of a sudden. It's a steroid story without steroids. Cool.

But not to go unmentioned, the Green Goblin plot line is advanced. Norman Osborn is such an arse, first berating Otto, then feigning concern when he's the one who tried to kill him. While the Harry red herring is being done well, I just can't believe that he's the Goblin. If he were, he'd have attacked the Fall Formal and gone after Kenny in the previous episode. He has no reason to go after the Big Man, and the only place we heard Norman call the Big Man "Lincoln" was in the subterranean lab. Norman knows Otto is a liability. This all fits in with Norman's modus operandi. Not to mention having two close friends of Peter go arch villain on us this season would be redundant. We still have Eddie Brock becoming Venom in a few more episodes.

Still a terrific episode, and I look forward to the mystery being resolved next week.

[Movie06]

Awesome episode. I like this version of Doc Ock alot more than the other ones although he ranks up there with the movie version.

Say, that space shuttle Jonah Jameson's son is in, could that be the very first sign of Venom? If it is... :evil:

Oh yes, there will be blood...

[tb4000]

I have to confess, I do give this Spidey series credit for not pulling punches regarding the transformations of its rogues. Everytime one of them has become their alter ego, it's obvious a torture-filled, painful transformation, not quickly done at all. The screams of pain and what not add to the disturbing factor, of the final result.

On topic, I did like Otto in this version...from unassuming and nebbish to crazy and spiteful.

[Anarky]

Man, Ock turned on a dime after his accident. And why not? He was a disrespected doormat when he was "good". Now it's time he claims what's owed to him. That's the supervillain genius mantra anyway.

Now that the players are in place we should be seeing the Sinister Six really soon. After all, OsCorp built their containment cells hence a certain gremlin will no doubt liberate them to wreak vengeance on their common foe.

So far the one plot I'm not entirely sold on is Eddie Brock. I can understand where he'd be mad at Pete but flat-out hatred??? I'm not seeing it. Perhaps the symbiote will cloud Brock's mind into making him believe he shares said hatred of Spidey/Parker. Something tells me Brock will not be a committed enemy of Pete in the long run.

[ShadowStar]

"
Still a terrific episode, and I look forward to the mystery being resolved next week.

I didn't see this episode, but what mystery are you talking about? The mystery of who the Green Goblin is? And who is the villain in next weeks episode, other than Green Goblin?

I have a few more questions: Was Green Goblin in this episode much? Was it explained why MJ isn't seeing Peter anymore? Was MJ in this episode much?

[GregX]

I didn't see this episode, but what mystery are you talking about? The mystery of who the Green Goblin is? And who is the villain in next weeks episode, other than Green Goblin?

I have a few more questions: Was Green Goblin in this episode much? Was it explained why MJ isn't seeing Peter anymore? Was MJ in this episode much?

Green Goblin is the villain in next week's episode.

As for Mary Jane, she said: "It was just one date. Doesn't mean we're going steady."

[Peter Paltridge]

I didn't see this episode, but what mystery are you talking about? The mystery of who the Green Goblin is? And who is the villain in next weeks episode, other than Green Goblin?

I have a few more questions: Was Green Goblin in this episode much? Was it explained why MJ isn't seeing Peter anymore? Was MJ in this episode much?
We only saw GG's hand. On this show, GG's responsible for Nebbish becoming Nasty.

MJ said "We're only friends; you misunderstood." I doubt that's what's really going on in her head but time will reveal more. Just wait until he starts dating Gwen, then we'll see the look on her face....

You know that quick gag where Spidey web-shoots two people out of the way and then they look at each other like they just became attracted to each other? Were those two minor characters from the comics that only hardcore SM fans would recognize? I'll probably be asking questions like this a lot.

[Miyamoto Musashi]

We still have Eddie Brock becoming Venom in a few more episodes.
No; now that's just wrong.:shrug:
Flash Thompson is more suitable to be Venom in this show especially since Eddie only had three cameo's and he doesn't hate Spider-Man at all.
On this note it's still impossible to make Flash Venom as well. so like MichaelAngelo says: "Scratch that notion dudes" [From the first TMNT animated series]

[GregX]

No; now that's just wrong.:shrug:
Flash Thompson is more suitable to be Venom in this show especially since Eddie only had three cameo's and he doesn't hate Spider-Man at all.
On this note it's still impossible to make Flash Venom as well. so like MichaelAngelo says: "Scratch that notion dudes" [From the first TMNT animated series]

Well, why don't you wait and see what happens before saying it's just wrong.

[Rick Jones]

So far the one plot I'm not entirely sold on is Eddie Brock. I can understand where he'd be mad at Pete but flat-out hatred??? I'm not seeing it. Perhaps the symbiote will cloud Brock's mind into making him believe he shares said hatred of Spidey/Parker. Something tells me Brock will not be a committed enemy of Pete in the long run.I'm guessing something extremely bad happens to him that we're not close to seeing occur as yet. Personally I'm not even thinking about Venom, thats like two storylines away. I don't really trust Eddie . I don't think he's as nice a person as everybody is thinking. I feel like there were signs already of a darker, quick-tempered side that no ones really paid attention to. That might just be me trying to see something that isn't there though.

[ShadowStar]

What did the preview for next weeks episode show?

[lukecage]

what a dope episode.

[Anwar]

What did the preview for next weeks episode show?

It just said that the Goblin was back, and it showed a scene of the Goblin tying Spidey up and dragging him along during flight.

IE, the cover for ASM 39, where we found out who the Goblin was.

[creativerealms]

I believe it will be Eddie finding out that peter Parker is Spiderm,an once he is bonded with the symbiont added with the symbiont's hate for Peter that turns them into Venom

[Anwar]

But if Eddie knows who Peter is, he still has no reason to hate him. Heck, he now has LESS reason to hate him since now he'd know that Peter didn't really abandon Connors but actually put himself on the line to save him.

[GregX]

Oh, there will be time to get Eddie to really hate Peter. Trust me. :evil:

[ShadowStar]

It just said that the Goblin was back, and it showed a scene of the Goblin tying Spidey up and dragging him along during flight.

IE, the cover for ASM 39, where we found out who the Goblin was.

Does that mean the Goblin will unmask Spidey in the next episode? :eek: Isn't it way too early for that?

[Anwar]

Nah, I mean it happened in ASM 39. If they want to bring Venom into the series for the next arc but keep the Goblin having the last episode of the Goblin arc be ASM 39 it makes perfect sense:

The Goblin (Norman, hopefully) finds out who Peter is and Peter finds out who he is, and in the end the Goblin gets amnesia that erases all memory of his past self (which is only like a month of his life at the most), so now Venom won't seem redundant because the Goblin won't be around.

As for Eddie not having enough reason to hate Spidey, the build-up to his hate only was a small bit of two past episodes in TAS (the Lizard ep, the Spider-Slayers one) so 4 episodes is more than enough for Weisman to make this Eddie truly hate Peter.

[ShadowGUN]

But if Eddie knows who Peter is, he still has no reason to hate him. Heck, he now has LESS reason to hate him since now he'd know that Peter didn't really abandon Connors but actually put himself on the line to save him.

Actually he does have a reason to hate Spidey: he stopped both Electro and the Lizard and cure Connor. In other words he did what Eddie couldn't do, what he was powerless to do, which it was saving people he care about. You got jealousy right there as a reason. We all know people had betray or kill friends for being jealous of them. Plus if you add the symbiote hatred of being rejected by Peter you got Venom right there.

[GregX]

Actually he does have a reason to hate Spidey: he stopped both Electro and the Lizard and cure Connor. In other words he did what Eddie couldn't do, what he was powerless to do, which it was saving people he care about. You got jealousy right there as a reason. We all know people had betray or kill friends for being jealous of them. Plus if you add the symbiote hatred of being rejected by Peter you got Venom right there.

Trust me, that's not going to be it.

[Peter Paltridge]

Trust me, that's not going to be it.
"Hey, Peter Parker sent me an E-mail! I'll just click on the link....."

"NO! I'VE BEEN RICKROLLED! ARRRGH! I SHALL USE THIS SYMBIOTE TO KILL HIM!!!"

[Anwar]

Trust me, that's not going to be it.

Weisman actually told you what would happen? Seems unprofessional...

[GregX]

Weisman actually told you what would happen? Seems unprofessional...

I didn't say that.

[Anwar]

Oh, well that's good because it means that we're left here to speculate.

Anyways, maybe we're reading a bit too much into the show at some points. I'm guilt of this because I thought Otto's line about "The equipment being substandard" in "Competition" being setup for him to have an accident there that would make him Ock. Turned out the accident had nothing to do with that secret lab or any experiments he was running there.

So maybe what's happened so far between Eddie and Peter won't have much to do with Venom and something mega-bad will happen during the symbiote arc to turn Eddie on Peter and it will be that alone.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

GregX is obviously a master ninja who slips in and out of the production stuido with ease.

As for the episode, meh. After the second film it's kind of hard to care for this doc.

[Yarharhar]

It seems more likely that if Brock was going to hate Spiderman, it would have to do with Gwen somehow (seeing as how he is fairly protective of her). But from everything I've read and heard, we wouldn't be seeing "The Death of Gwen Stacy" for a long time, if at all. I guess they could just break her back or something instead...

[Pepperidge]

Nah, I mean it happened in ASM 39. If they want to bring Venom into the series for the next arc but keep the Goblin having the last episode of the Goblin arc be ASM 39 it makes perfect sense

Yeah, but the Scorpion isn't appearing until season 3, so it's not like everything is being done at hyperspeed. I honestly do wish they'd maintain the mystery of Goblin's identity a little longer, given that he's in all likelihood going to be alive for the entire duration of this series, and there's still another 50 odd episodes for his story to unfold. If they jump ahead to something like the events of ASM39, how will the character be handled for the rest of the series? We could wind up with very long durations of Goblinlessness!

[Anwar]

Would that be so bad? I mean having the Goblin appear not so frequently would also mean that he wouldn't lose his appeal from repeated defeats. It's the same reason TAS only used Venom twice in the entire show.

Besides, having Venom and the Goblin around at the same time makes one of them redundant.


It seems more likely that if Brock was going to hate Spiderman, it would have to do with Gwen somehow (seeing as how he is fairly protective of her). But from everything I've read and heard, we wouldn't be seeing "The Death of Gwen Stacy" for a long time, if at all. I guess they could just break her back or something instead...

The way it's going, it seems that Brock is going to hate Peter primarily instead of hating Spidey, and the hate of Peter will spread to Spidey when he learns they're the same guy.

It won't be Gwen's death. We just have to wait and see.

[Anwar]

It seems more likely that if Brock was going to hate Spiderman, it would have to do with Gwen somehow (seeing as how he is fairly protective of her). But from everything I've read and heard, we wouldn't be seeing "The Death of Gwen Stacy" for a long time, if at all. I guess they could just break her back or something instead...

The way it's going, it seems that Brock is going to hate Peter primarily instead of hating Spidey, and the hate of Peter will spread to Spidey when he learns they're the same guy.

It won't be Gwen's death. We just have to wait and see.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Green Goblin might put Gwen in harms way and Spidey wont be able to save her from injury... Seems like a simple way to have the same scene but without involving death.

Otto took a trip on the crazy train... but after all that abuse it's not surprising. I too felt compassion for him when he said "I've been good!"

Harry sure has become a sack of crap in this story.

Every time Sally opens her mouth I just want to smack her. You'd think with all the crazy stuff happening around NYC lately that she wouldn't still be so caught up in trying to keep a social higharchy.

Though in the social aspect I thought it was pretty lame that MJ was with Flash. She can tell he's a huge jerk afterall but at least it keeps the show from diving into Pete and MJ forever territory before other options are explored.

[danman007]

I too felt a little iffed about MJ reciprocating Flash's advances but looking back at 'Catalysts' it's obvious that Flash has his eye on her and that he has hopes of landing her on his arm. Guess he felt inferior to seeing a babe like that with Pete. It will be interesting to see how MJ handles Flash with the next episode being Halloween...Flash lost the bet so...well you know.

I did like the Peter/Liz montage and it's a nice advancement in Liz's character development. Gwen being concern over Harry despite being a complete ass to her, my guess is that when Peter and Gwen confront Harry for their 'talk' Peter will see Harry taking the formula.

Peter had two happy endings so I guess the it was time for Peter to get the short end of the stick. Yeah, Sally needs to just shut up.


Ock was the highlight of the episode. Fantastic fight and great use of Otto's intelligence figuring out Spidey's plan before he could execute it. I was actually rooting for Ock to get the power cell in the end.
More teases of the Goblin's identity but I'm expecting it to be Norman anyway.

A great and solid episode 8/10.

[Anwar]

Don't worry, seeing how the symbiote arc is about to begin I'm guessing Peter's going to do some stuff under its influence that'll undo any good stuff that's been happening to him.

Let the speculation of how the suit will affect Peter as Peter, and not just as Spidey (since it's likely as Spidey he'll just be more brutal) begin. Think he'll try to become a player, or just be more aggressive towards Liz and MJ (leaving Gwen in the dust again)?

[Rud]

I was actually rooting for Ock to get the power cell in the end.

I was too

[Aldrius]

Don't worry, seeing how the symbiote arc is about to begin I'm guessing Peter's going to do some stuff under its influence that'll undo any good stuff that's been happening to him.

Let the speculation of how the suit will affect Peter as Peter, and not just as Spidey (since it's likely as Spidey he'll just be more brutal) begin. Think he'll try to become a player, or just be more aggressive towards Liz and MJ (leaving Gwen in the dust again)?

I'm hoping nothing happens for a while. I'm kinda tired of the 'erg, as soon as Peter puts the suit on he becomes a mysogonist jerk and starts killing criminals'. It's no fun, and it's predictable. For once I'd like to see them play with the black suit as... just a suit. They did it in the spider-man cartoon for a little bit, and they sorta did it in the movie, but they treated it more like drugs than a blessing.

[GregX]

The people all shocked Mary Jane was hanging out with Flash obviously have no knowledge of the character outside the movies and the 90s toon, where in both, she was Mary Jane in name only.

Mary Jane, at this age, cares only about having fun and partying. She doesn't care who it's with. It's all to mask and distract herself from her horrible home life. Eventually she grows, it takes a tragedy for it to happen, but yeah.

Meet Mary Jane Watson. Stan Lee and John Romita's Mary Jane Watson. The real Mary Jane Watson.

[Gokou Ruri]

Loved Otto's little daydream about attacking Normal before his accident. Speaking of which, it was a bit chilling seeing him beg for help before the experiment went off and seeing him electrocuted. Most villains so far have had some horrific/painful origin (Sandman melting, Electro's electrocution, Lizard's transformation)

I also loved Norman's manipulation and agenda, and the Harry thing is a nice red harring.

[Peter Paltridge]

The people all shocked Mary Jane was hanging out with Flash obviously have no knowledge of the character outside the movies and the 90s toon, where in both, she was Mary Jane in name only.

Mary Jane, at this age, cares only about having fun and partying. She doesn't care who it's with. It's all to mask and distract herself from her horrible home life. Eventually she grows, it takes a tragedy for it to happen, but yeah.

Meet Mary Jane Watson. Stan Lee and John Romita's Mary Jane Watson. The real Mary Jane Watson.
Not so fast---I want her more three-dimensional than when she was a newly-birthed, rough background character and nobody knew which direction she was going to eventually go. If she knows Spider-Man's identity, there's even more reason.

She can hang out with Flash, but she can't be a total selfish jerk. That MJ is as dead as Lyman in "Garfield."

[GregX]

Not so fast---I want her more three-dimensional than when she was a newly-birthed, rough background character and nobody knew which direction she was going to eventually go. If she knows Spider-Man's identity, there's even more reason.

She can hang out with Flash, but she can't be a total selfish jerk. That MJ is as dead as Lyman in "Garfield."

Where has she been selfish?

[Casey Mack]

People keep saying Brocks gonna just hate Peter, it seems like when Brock gets the symboite and the powers with it. He is going to try and one up Peter and out "Hero" him if you will, but the suit influence makes him a dark murderous anti-hero, leading to a fight with Peter, who tries to stop his former friend from going down the same dark path he almost went down I think.

[danman007]

The people all shocked Mary Jane was hanging out with Flash obviously have no knowledge of the character outside the movies and the 90s toon, where in both, she was Mary Jane in name only.

Mary Jane, at this age, cares only about having fun and partying. She doesn't care who it's with. It's all to mask and distract herself from her horrible home life. Eventually she grows, it takes a tragedy for it to happen, but yeah.

Meet Mary Jane Watson. Stan Lee and John Romita's Mary Jane Watson. The real Mary Jane Watson.


I'm with you there. I was a little iffed at first then I said, wait this isn't the 90s TAS MJ, Ulitmate MJ or the movie MJ this is the true Lee/Romita MJ.

I'm looking forward to see how MJ continues to handle Flash and the rest of the gang.
Plus Peter still gets to weigh the other love interests for a while like in this episode Liz and eventually Gwen.

[ROBOTRON]

:D - 4 Stars.

This episode felt "filler" to me...probably one that will be better explained in later episodes. The Doc Ock origin was appropriate and well done.

Who is the real Green Goblin? I'm still not sure. While I know who the first one was in the comics...if thats who it is here, they hide it well. I agree with earlier post that its definitely not the son (thus, the red herring) the rest hasn't started making sense quite yet.

The Space Shuttle has taken off so it would appear its almost "Symbiote time" or "Manwolf" time, etc. (Insert JJJr plot synopsis here)

Back to Doc Ock...this one was very movie to me...talking to his tentacles and such. I never knew him to be in communication with his tentacles in the 90's toon or even 60's toon/comics, whatever.

Anyway, character development is moving along well.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

The people all shocked Mary Jane was hanging out with Flash obviously have no knowledge of the character outside the movies and the 90s toon, where in both, she was Mary Jane in name only.

Mary Jane, at this age, cares only about having fun and partying. She doesn't care who it's with. It's all to mask and distract herself from her horrible home life. Eventually she grows, it takes a tragedy for it to happen, but yeah.

Meet Mary Jane Watson. Stan Lee and John Romita's Mary Jane Watson. The real Mary Jane Watson.

By that logic, Superman is a giant bald guy or the Golden Age Superman.

[kid rabbit]

M.J wasn't being selfish she just wants to be Peter's friend
their not going to order the wedding cake just yet

[Crash]

I'm gunna miss that meek little Otto. Doc Ocks's initial performance seemed a little off, but he definately hit his stride after getting the costume. Not quite as iconic as TAS or movie Ock, but he looks good. Love the attitude, and the way he saw through Spider-Man's first tactic.

Lots of good quotes. "Glib does not equate to clever" Spider-Man asking why Doc wanted the battery-thing. And the last line of the old Otto... All adds up to a fun episode.


....And I still thing Harry is the Goblin. Yeah, Norman was really the first Goblin, and they had Norman standing in front of his masks, but I just can't convice myself that he's the Goblin. Just a gut-feeling that it makes more sense for Harry to be the Goblin. We shall see...

[Danzigg]

Any news on when this might be on in the UK?

[GregX]

By that logic, Superman is a giant bald guy or the Golden Age Superman.

Your parallel does not work. Those Mary Jane days were never, ever retconned out. They are still acknowledged and occasionally talked about. She grew of course, but we're meeting the character from the beginning now, as she was.

Who did you want her to be anyway? The Movie Mary Jane was a waste of space. 90s Mary Jane was a worthless airhead. Ultimate Mary Jane was basically Gwen.

Check and I do believe mate.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Your parallel does not work. Those Mary Jane days were never, ever retconned out. They are still acknowledged and occasionally talked about. She grew of course, but we're meeting the character from the beginning now, as she was.

Who did you want her to be anyway? The Movie Mary Jane was a waste of space. 90s Mary Jane was a worthless airhead. Ultimate Mary Jane was basically Gwen.

Check and I do believe mate.

And yet, this Golden Age Superman seemingly returned during IC.

I'm not even going to dignify your final few sentences with a respone outside of this declaration of no response.

[GregX]

And yet, this Golden Age Superman seemingly returned during IC.

I'm not even going to dignify your final few sentences with a respone outside of this declaration of no response.

What's your Superman point supposed to mean anyway?

But answer my question, which Mary Jane did you want anyway?

And it's spelled RESPONSE.

[Anwar]

I'll admit I agree with GregX on this.

In the movies and TAS, they pretty much rushed Pete's love life and made it clear MJ was the girl for him from the start. Movie MJ was a combo of Liz Allen and Gwen Stacy pretty much. Movie Gwen was more like early comic MJ.

TAS, well seeing how restricted FOX had them there was no way they'd get away with Gwen being in the show without having some mega-copout for her demise. And Felicia there, while a good reinvention of her character, was clearly out of Peter's lovelife (but not Spidey's) by S2.

Here, they're (somehow) able to use Gwen so expanding on that they can fully use Betty, Liz and (presumably) Felicia meaning they can use MJ to the totality of her comic persona (she was just a party chick when she first appeared, she didn't become deeper and a better love interest until after Gwen died).

So this MJ's persona is more true to the comics, and as long as Gwen is around it's likely she'll be like this for the rest of the series.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

What's your Superman point supposed to mean anyway?

But answer my question, which Mary Jane did you want anyway?

And it's spelled RESPONSE.

My Superman point was that he wasn't seemingly retconned as he was brought back, if even to just die. Sure, he isn't the Superman with the main focus but he sure as heck is a guy called Superman and thus, even if his adventures do not connect with New Earth's Superman's tales, still matter to some capacity.

As for MJ:

It's American comics, there's a dozen different interpretations to just about any character but you're so damn set on you always being right you will easily as snapping a pencil walk all over others, like you did by bringing vulgarity into the discussion when you proclaimed, and I quote:

"The Movie Mary Jane was a waste of space. 90s Mary Jane was a worthless airhead."

Rather then taking into account maybe there are those on the planet that like the nineties version or the film version. There's a difference between saying "I like [X] more then [Y] or [Z] but it's still cool if you like [Y] and [Z]" and "I like [X], [X] is all that matters!" That's my problem, you assert your opinions as if you know better then we do. I wouldn't give two shakes of a stick if you were Spielberg so do not insinuate being a 'Hollywood Producer' means anything even close to "My opinions should matter more because of so-and-so."

As for my typo, I'd be more inclined to do anything about it if you were kind when pointing it out or at the very least not come off as either indifferent or a shouting and raving loon (irony aside) as polite manners make others more sympathetic and thus get you were you want to be in life more often then not.

Now that we're grossly off topic I suspect the authorities to make some sort of duly deserved proclamation.

[GregX]

My Superman point was that he wasn't seemingly retconned as he was brought back, if even to just die. Sure, he isn't the Superman with the main focus but he sure as heck is a guy called Superman and thus, even if his adventures do not connect with New Earth's Superman's tales, still matter to some capacity.

As for MJ:

It's American comics, there's a dozen different interpretations to just about any character but you're so damn set on you always being right you will easily as snapping a pencil walk all over others, like you did by bringing vulgarity into the discussion when you proclaimed, and I quote:

"The Movie Mary Jane was a waste of space. 90s Mary Jane was a god damn, worthless airhead."

Rather then taking into account maybe there are those on the planet that like the nineties version or the film version. There's a difference between saying "I like [X] more then [Y] or [Z] but it's still cool if you like [Y] and [Z]" and "I like [X], [X] is all that matters!" That's my problem, you assert your opinions as if you know better then we do. I wouldn't give two shakes of a stick if you were Spielberg so do not insinuate being a 'Hollywood Producer' means anything even close to "My opinions should matter more because of so-and-so."

As for my typo, I'd be more inclined to do anything about it if you were kind when pointing it out or at the very least not come off as either indifferent or a shouting and raving loon (irony aside) as polite manners make others more sympathetic and thus get you were you want to be in life more often then not.

Now that we're grossly off topic I suspect the authorities to make some sort of duly deserved proclamation.

Pardon me, but calling Movie Mary Jane or 90s Cartoon Mary Jane worthless is not flaming at all. I don't see a rule breaker there. And "god damn airhead" is not a vulgarity. You can hear it on network television.

I did not break any rules. I did not flame you. If anything, you attacked me.

[Rud]

i like this MJ, the movie version was prety generic in my opinion and the TAS version isnt even slightly memorable and more gereric than the movie version.

[Nightwing]

Now I'm sure we can all agree that.....Spider-man wears a spider-themed onesie complete with feet pajamas. Not much else other than that I guess. :) But even though I am 1,000% for the Old School representation of characters, I am kinda wondering why MJ is spending so much time with Flash, and I think it's somewhat valid. I'd assume she'd know Flash is a brainless loser. Old school MJ started out being about the socializing and the partying, but we didn't get that impression as much from the previous episode of this particular show.

This episode was so good, I wrote my post while watching it! 84 stars! I would have been here sooner but I had some DVD Recorder foibles. It seems a lot I wanted to bring up already has been broughten! lol :p

Harry's problem is really developing well, in terms of story. You can really tell he has a problem because Rand said they were going for Hamburgers so in response to that Harry says he'll "ketchup!" Get that boy some help! I'm teasing. He needs help though.

We've been waiting for what the transition for Ock would be like, and the end result delivers extremely well, IMO. The means to get there weren't really as solid as I would have liked, though. It felt like it went pretty quick, complete with some odd dialogue I didn't quite latch onto. "No, not right! I've been good!" "DO NOT WAAANT!" It was dialogue like that which I couldn't really feel. I like the innocent victim angle, but when you live in a world of selfish jerks, crooks, and VERY elaborate dirty dealings, nothing good will come of it if you do nothing but abide by it. It does play on his new angry/arrogant personality though.

And it feels like we used the movies to fill in blanks for the physical stuff, like the design (with the chip in the neck) for the Ock Arms. It just felt kinda quick.

But like I said, the end result delivers. The animation, action, and fight scenes were spot on, and the rest of the dialogue and one liners have been the funniest yet.

Also very important with the fights, portraying just how impossible Ock is to beat. That's Dr. Octopus comic book history, and this episode had a nice nod to that.

I'm glad they had that "MJ is a friend right now" scene. The viewers needed it, especially the ones on this board who have the movies so ingrained in their head they think romantic potential is over once MJ enters Peter's life. Yes but no.


Flash Thompson is more suitable to be Venom

Interesting argument, but Flash Thompson is barely capable of working at Burger King, much less being deep enough for anything else with his life or personality right now. He's a stupid, shallow child. And once I regain my sanity after loosing it by wanting to bash Flash for being a jerk, I'll calmly be able to say that Flash completely adores Spider-man and everything for which he stands. That's the one human part about him. Does he hate Peter? As I said about him being a dumb shallow child, I don't think he's capable of hating or liking anything or anyone yet.

All in all, this show's quality goes up exponentially, and this episode is another piece of evidence. While watching the action and commercial break cliffhangers and stuff, I think about just how old techniques like that are, but just how fresh they are in this show.

[GregX]

Does Flash hate Peter? I honestly don't think so. I'm not saying he likes Peter. He just gets his jollies tormenting Peter. It's almost as if he doesn't even see Peter as a person.

[RJVanSchaick]

Would that be so bad? I mean having the Goblin appear not so frequently would also mean that he wouldn't lose his appeal from repeated defeats. It's the same reason TAS only used Venom twice in the entire show.

Besides, having Venom and the Goblin around at the same time makes one of them redundant.


I don't think it would be too redundant. Every hero has a villain who is their perfect adversary, and Norman Osborn/Green Goblin is Spider-Man's. I actually wouldn't mind seeing more of him.

I'm hesitant to say anything about Venom, since so far Greg Weisman has done something that the comic, 90s cartoon, and movie haven't: he's made Eddie Brock a real character. So I'm actually looking forward to seeing what sets Eddie on the path...


It's American comics, there's a dozen different interpretations to just about any character but you're so damn set on you always being right you will easily as snapping a pencil walk all over others, like you did by bringing vulgarity into the discussion when you proclaimed, and I quote:

"The Movie Mary Jane was a waste of space. 90s Mary Jane was a god damn, worthless airhead."

Rather then taking into account maybe there are those on the planet that like the nineties version or the film version. There's a difference between saying "I like [X] more then [Y] or [Z] but it's still cool if you like [Y] and [Z]" and "I like [X], [X] is all that matters!" That's my problem, you assert your opinions as if you know better then we do. I wouldn't give two shakes of a stick if you were Spielberg so do not insinuate being a 'Hollywood Producer' means anything even close to "My opinions should matter more because of so-and-so."

Sorry, but I just had to add: Calling 90s Mary Jane a god damn, worthless airhead is not saying that everyone who likes her is a moron. I don't think GregX was even implying that. By your logic, my saying that "the black suit ruined the movie 'Spider-Man 3' and robbed us of the story we should have gotten" means that what I'm really saying is that "anyone who liked Spider-Man 3 is an idiot," even though I'm not even thinking that.

Is Greg opinionated? Yes, but he doesn't begrudge others the right to have opinions. If you jumped to the conclusion you did by his statement that 90s Mary Jane was a god damn worthless airhead, then that sounds like a personal problem.

[Antiyonder]

The people all shocked Mary Jane was hanging out with Flash obviously have no knowledge of the character outside the movies and the 90s toon, where in both, she was Mary Jane in name only.

Even then, I don't see why they're surprised that she was hanging out with Flash at all, as they were shown to be dating in the first movie as well. Heck, she dated Harry for the later portion.

[Anwar]

Since Movie MJ is a combo of Liz, Gwen and a little of Betty it made sense she was dating Flash at first (like Liz). Her dating Harry was from the comics (though it was more a fling on her behalf and not some true deep relationship) after it settled that Peter and Gwen were serious.

[Reg]

Really good ep! Ah, party MJ finally graces the screen! Nice to see her. Though I did feel for Peter when she told him they were just friends. Of course if SSM Peter takes her behavior anything like ASM did in the original comics, he'll know to keep MJ in the friend zone department because this was exactly what turned him off about MJ. Of course if Peter ever starts dating Gwen, we may see a jealous look on MJ's face.

Doc Ock. Man, his transformation from timid scientist to raving mad lunatic was AWESOME! I knew he'd make a great Ock. His fight with Spidey was pretty much everything I thought it would be. And all the puns were cute. Peter winning Liz an octopus, 8 being Otto's lucky/fav number, etc.

I love how this ep started too! Spidey stopping the truck and getting the nerd with that hot chick. "You can thank me later, dude" Oh that was priceless.

[GregX]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/Funny%20Pictures/DeadNorman.jpg

[M.O.D.O.K.]

I got a kick out of the beginning. Spidey stopping the thieves and having the nerd and the hot chick fall in love instantly. If only my hopeless romantic life were that easy..

Anyhow, Dr. Octopus was amazing. His transformation from timid, weak, spineless Dr. Otto Octavius to maniacal, arrogant, and dangerous Dr. Octopus was well done and very painful. Seeing the doctor beg for his life in the monitor while the Green Goblin watched was actually very chilling. As Doc Ock, however, he is instantly a full threat, attacking the people who made his life miserable, and even the one who were nice to him. As long as he is not someone's pawn, he is good villain. It is also interesting to see that Octavious used to be friends with Adrian Toomes.

Peter's personal life is also taking interesting turns. Peter might not have gotten MJ, but his short-lived date with Liz was cute. I could see them as couple. Meanwhile, Flash shows his heroism, him and Liz break up, Ned Lee continues with his Spidey/Goblin story, John Jameson goes to the moon, Harry's addiction to the Globulin Green gets worse, and Hammerhead and Norman vow to stop the Goblin threat. Lots of stuff going on in only episode.

5/5

NEXT EPISODE: The Green Goblin returns, posing a bigger threat to Spider-Man than before, as John Jameson returns from his mission on the moon with a strange hitchhiker with him.

[Anwar]

If the Chameleon is in the next episode, my theory is that Norman hired him to sometime be the Goblin to draw suspicion away from him. Spidey will unmask the Goblin as the Chameleon and then we (the audience) will learn it's really Norman who is laughing his butt off at how he's fooled everyone.

[creativerealms]

This show loves brutal transformations doesn't it? First Conner's face seeming to collapse when he changes into the lizard, then Marko getting shot full of tiny holes and exploding to become sandman and now this. Otto seemed to go though a lot of painful radiation/energy burns powerful enough to leave him as a glowing skeleton a few times before the process was over.

Norman hiring Chameleon as a fake Goblin? Well it's possible and they are both voiced by Blum. Guess we have to wait until next week.

[Peter Paltridge]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/Funny%20Pictures/DeadNorman.jpg
I don't know about that one. A glider and a mechanical arm are clearly different things. I don't think it was intentional.....

[Anwar]

Poor Gwen is like a main char in a Shojo manga: Her crush is unintentionally ignoring her for hotter/cooler girls, her buddy is intentionally ignoring her for his new image, and her other buddy is going to become a psychotic alien/human hybrid who lives only to kill her crush.

I wonder if Brock will tell Gwen Peter's secret just to mess with him, or hang out with Gwen more to freak out Peter instead of hanging out with May. It would show how far Brock is gone that he'd threaten her.

[90'sCartoonMan]

We finally get Doctor Octopus, one of the best villains so far. He is one of Spider-Man's biggest, this show is giving him the respect he deserves. He's sympathetic, a threat to Spidey, and the banter was hilarious.

Good to see Mary Jane fitting right in with the cast. It wouldn't make sense for her to want to immediately date Peter, at least not without checking out all the other guys.

Then there's Liz. With all the Spider-Man history and everything, people naturally expect Peter to gravitate towards Gwen or MJ, but right now, it's nice to see Peter and Liz having a good time with each other.

[DTaina]

By that logic, Superman is a giant bald guy or the Golden Age Superman.

I don't really understand that logic. The "giant bald guy" is an independent creation that predates the Superman that appeared in Action Comics #1. You might even say that he was more like Lex Luthor than Superman, until Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster re-envisioned him as a good guy. I'm not sure how you can compare the two. They're different creations by the same writers, and, to my knowledge, all they have in common is the name. Unlike Mary Jane, who's basically the same character throughout all the different interpretations, so I don't see how your logic applies to this situation.

The Golden Age Superman was nothing like the Superman we're used to. He used to kidnap people just to make a point, for Pete's sake. I once saw him hurl a soldier high into the air and straight into the woods just because he annoyed him. Obviously, the Superman we're all familiar with would never do anything like that. But does the fact that his creators envisioned him that way mean that every other interpretation of Superman is wrong? No, it's just a different interpretation.

It's the same thing with Mary Jane. There are fans, like GregX, that prefer the original Mary Jane. There are those that prefer the movie version. Just because you like one but hate the other doesn't mean you're trying to shove your opinion down people's throats, or as you said, walking all over people. I don't believe GregX was doing that. I believe he was stating his opinion and sticking to it. So I gotta side with him on this one.

And "damn" is a vulgarity?

[Jeffrey Logan]

"Reactions" got maximum points from me. Spider-Man stopped the truck same way he stopped a train in Spider-Man 2. Dr.Octopus's power lasting an hour was a little weird, but definately not bad. It was a unique way to introduce him to people, who seem to know everything about our famous doctor. I hope talking about tentacles won't be considered as a spoiler (now as everyone has seen Doctor Otto Octavius as Dr.Octopus). Last month I got the last part of The Amazing Spider-Man, where Spider-Man and Dr.Octopus fought against Luke Carlyle/Dr.Octopus III (there is a site, that calls Luke that way). Dr.Octopus's tentacles in The Spectacular Spider-Man are similar to Carlyle's.

[Aldrius]

People keep saying Brocks gonna just hate Peter, it seems like when Brock gets the symboite and the powers with it. He is going to try and one up Peter and out "Hero" him if you will, but the suit influence makes him a dark murderous anti-hero, leading to a fight with Peter, who tries to stop his former friend from going down the same dark path he almost went down I think.

...I love that.

The symbiote as the Eye of Odin.

Seriously, I do.

Is that from an official synopsis or something you've conjectured? It's definitely a lot cooler than the 'steroid' effect we usually get.

[Katsumara]

Tad late on my response to this episode, but yanno what? I don't care. D:

I thought it was pretty awesome how Doc Ock was portrayed here. The VA for him did great, and the transformation of him did make me feel for the character. Was a great episode though.

As for the MJ being interested in Flash thing, I don't think it's so much end-all infatuation with the dumb jock, but more of a "Maybe he's a fun kind of guy to party with" like others have said. This seems to be the old MJ that we haven't seen in a long time. That and you don't really think they are going to have MJ and Peter hook up into a big relationship on Episode 8, do you? There's still a couple love interests there for Peter to go through before he gets to MJ. =P I too loved her "We're just friends, it's not like we're going steady" thing at the game. Good job by the writers.

Anyway, I loved the episode. Not sure why everyone is going all hoozywhatsit fighting and arguing about the MJ thing. Let's just enjoy a good show for what it is; a good show.

[Donomark]

Another thing I love is that the writers are still playing Peter off as just starting out. He's still dumb enough to think he can score dates with Sally Avril and MJ. At the same time, he's also learning the troupes to crime-fighting like his encounter with Tombstone.

[bigdeath]

Green Goblin is the villain in next week's episode.

As for Mary Jane, she said: "It was just one date. Doesn't mean we're going steady."

I haven't watched the episode yet but if a girl said that to me I'd be pissed. :mad:

I feel bad for parker, talk about a shot to his self-esteem.

[GregX]

I haven't watched the episode yet but if a girl said that to me I'd be pissed. :mad:

I feel bad for parker, talk about a shot to his self-esteem.

Is she obligated to be his girlfriend after one date?

[bigdeath]

"Hey, Peter Parker sent me an E-mail! I'll just click on the link....."

"NO! I'VE BEEN RICKROLLED! ARRRGH! I SHALL USE THIS SYMBIOTE TO KILL HIM!!!"

Prefect way to produce venom. :D


Is she obligated to be his girlfriend after one date?

Is it normal now to date several people at the same time? If your hanging out with a friend then say so. Leading a person on is insulting. Unless your saying its ok for her to break peters heart? What is Dating if your not getting a girl/boyfriend?

My god, am I just old fashion in thinking its not ok for someone to date a punch of people at once? Me, of all people, a prune. Who would have guessed. :sweat:

I guess in my mind when you go on a date with a girl then shes your girlfriend. Clearly, I'm living in the 1950's. :sweat:

[GregX]

Is it normal now to date several people at the same time? If your hanging out with a friend then say so. Leading a person on is insulting. Unless your saying its ok for her to break peters heart? What is Dating if your not getting a girl/boyfriend?

My god, am I just old fashion in thinking its not ok for someone to date a punch of people at once? Me, of all people, a prune. Who would have guessed. :sweat:


When you're not committed, yes, it is normal. That's what dating is.

[bigdeath]

When you're not committed, yes, it is normal. That's what dating is.

Ouch, so peter gets dumped after one date. I wonder why you'd want to date someone again who will throw you away so easily.

I can't see gwen doing that to peter. but then gwen has a crush on him.

[GregX]

Ouch, so peter gets dumped after one date. I wonder why you'd want to date someone again who will throw you away so easily.

I can't see gwen doing that to peter. but then gwen has a crush on him.

Who said he got dumped, she just said "it's not like we're going steady or something equally primitive." She's not really dating Flash either.

Is she playing the field? Yes. Nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly in line with Mary Jane's character.

One date does not mean you're a One True Item. Unless you're Clarence and Alabama. Points to whoever gets that.

[bigdeath]

Who said he got dumped, she just said "it's not like we're going steady or something equally primitive." She's not really dating Flash either.

Is she playing the field? Yes. Nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly in line with Mary Jane's character.

One date does not mean you're a One True Item. Unless you're Clarence and Alabama. Points to whoever gets that.

oh its fine useless you have a crush on someone...

I don't think peter has that problem though.

Am I the only one that has a problem with this? (judging from previous comments, some people agree with me)

not saying I hate MJ or anything...

[YTV]

:robin: Hey I know this isn't realated but I had to ask somw where. How do you post a new thread on here??? Usually it says "New Thread" or something but it doesn't any where on this page. Am I not aloud or something???

[GregX]

oh its fine useless you have a crush on someone...

I don't think peter has that problem though.

Am I the only one that has a problem with this? (judging from previous comments, some people agree with me)

not saying I hate MJ or anything...

Which Mary Jane do you want? We all know they'll eventually end up together, but we're not there yet. Which Mary Jane do you want her to start out as?

* Stan Lee and John Romita's Mary Jane? Which is the one they're going with.
* The 90s Cartoon Mary Jane? Who I think was a bland, airhead.
* Ultimate Mary Jane? Well, that would be redundant with Gwen here. Bendis role reversed them.
* Movie Mary Jane? Who was a combo of MJ, Liz and Gwen anyway, so it would also be redundant.

Greg Weisman has been saying since the beginning his bible was Lee/Ditko/Romita. I don't see why using their Mary Jane is coming off as such a shock to people.

[bigdeath]

new thread button is at the top left across from the page numbers.

[bigdeath]

Let me state that I love that they are going with old school Mary Jane.

I was just stating how I'd feel in peters shoe's, is that so wrong?


I don't see why using their Mary Jane is coming off as such a shock to people.

Maybe because they too would be angry if a girl did what MJ did that to them in real life?

Is anyone saying they want MJ's character changed? No. Does that mean we can't hate her when she does something that would makes us angry? No.

[GregX]

Let me state that I love that they are going with old school Mary Jane.

I was just stating how I'd feel in peters shoes, is that so wrong?

Okay, I didn't quite get that.

But the thing about Peter in this is that he's in love with whatever woman is standing in front of him. Very hormone driven sixteen year old. He'll grow.

[bigdeath]

Okay, I didn't quite get that.

But the thing about Peter in this is that he's in love with whatever woman is standing in front of him. Very hormone driven sixteen year old. He'll grow.

Whatever happened to having crushes....

Oh well, one thing I like about this peter is that when one girl shoots him down he moves on to the next. You go player. :p

[Reg]

Wow the MJ thing is getting a lot of attention. Taken from my blog:


With any great episode of Spectacular, there was a lot of other enjoyable stuff. Peter's interactions with his friends from school was a treat as always. We got more Mary Jane in this episode and just like the party girl she originally was in the comics, she tells Peter that the two of them are just friends, which deals an emotional blow to our hero's heart. Does MJ like Peter? I think so but true to her character in the '60s, she doesn't want to get too close to him or anyone because of her rough family background.

Rather than stay down bout MJ's dismissal, Peter accepted Liz Allen's invite to Conny Island and he ended up having a good time. Ironically, MJ ended up hanging out with Flash Thompson and the four kids ended running into each other. The two seemed to be drifting apart and I guess this was a long time coming, what with Liz developing feelings for Peter in the second episode. Liz and Flash broke up at the episode's end and Peter felt bad because Sally, being the jerk she's always been, blames Peter and of course he feels pretty bummed because of all this.

Will Peter try to get Liz on the rebound? And what about MJ? As for Liz, kinda hard to say, but I'm guessing Peter will give the girl her space. MJ, well in the comics, Peter's tolerance for MJ's flighty party girl behavior was little to none. Ironic that the very thing that drew most guys to MJ, her party girl persona, was the very thing that repelled Peter. As much as she liked Peter and flirted with him (before Gwen died), he was very much annoyed with this aspect of her character. What am I trying to say? As hot as MJ is she just isn't the serious type of girl (at least not yet) and Peter probably knows he could end up getting hurt if he even attempted a relationship with her. For now, they'll most likely stay friends. If Peter gets to dating Gwen (which I believe will happen eventually) we could see a look of jealousy on MJ's face.

[bigdeath]

I was going to ask for a link to your blog but then...:sweat:

Nice commentary. I'll be reading your blog from now on.


Ironic that the very thing that drew most guys to MJ, her party girl persona, was the very thing that repelled Peter.

Peter thinks like me. ;)

[Reg]

I was going to ask for a link to your blog but then...:sweat:

Nice commentary. I'll be reading your blog from now on.



Peter thinks like me. ;)

Thanks! :D Yeah, in the comics, Peter had no time for a girl who played the field.

[comicchaser]

I don't really know why, but this episode didn't quite put me to the edge of geekgasm as the others did.
Octavius' change of mind, just felt so incredibly fast and out of nowhere. Yes, there was the daydream, but IMO it would have been more effective to put it in an earlier episode, or maybe 2-3 of them (First one containing a scene of him actually speaking up to Norman, second one containing this episode's scene, third one maybe Octavius ready to throw Norman off a building, whatever...).
Pushing all the change into one episode felt very rushed to me. Yes, I know, the "accident" is the most responsible catalyst (hrnhrnhrn) for his outburst and actual resorting to supervillainous behaviour, but still, compared to the execution of the other episodes, it felt a bit lacking to me, even though the various subplots were advanced quite nicely.
Of course that doesn't mean that it wasn't animated awesomeness all over, but I'd still rank it last place (with episode 2) of all the eps shown until now.

[creativerealms]

Will Peter try to get Liz on the rebound? And what about MJ? As for Liz, kinda hard to say, but I'm guessing Peter will give the girl her space. MJ, well in the comics, Peter's tolerance for MJ's flighty party girl behavior was little to none. Ironic that the very thing that drew most guys to MJ, her party girl persona, was the very thing that repelled Peter. As much as she liked Peter and flirted with him (before Gwen died), he was very much annoyed with this aspect of her character. What am I trying to say? As hot as MJ is she just isn't the serious type of girl (at least not yet) and Peter probably knows he could end up getting hurt if he even attempted a relationship with her. For now, they'll most likely stay friends. If Peter gets to dating Gwen (which I believe will happen eventually) we could see a look of jealousy on MJ's face.

Thats what Mary Jane likes about Peter and why they ended up with each other once she did get serous and more mature.

Otto was litterly driven insane by the incident that fused the arms to his spine thats why the personality change was so sudden, the old meek Otto was litterly killed during the creation of Doc Ock.

[Peter Paltridge]

Let me state that I love that they are going with old school Mary Jane.

I was just stating how I'd feel in peters shoe's, is that so wrong?

Maybe because they too would be angry if a girl did what MJ did that to them in real life?

Is anyone saying they want MJ's character changed? No. Does that mean we can't hate her when she does something that would makes us angry? No.
I'm not even sure you could call what they had that evening a "date," folks. She never said "I'm your girlfriend." My experience with school dances is zero, but I don't remember anyone taking them this seriously. The main goal is just to get someone to go with you so you don't look like a loser. Don't forget that Parker only chose MJ as his last resort (until he saw her).

I don't think, when we saw MJ with Flash, that that was a solid "date" either.

[bigdeath]

I'm not even sure you could call what they had that evening a "date," folks. She never said "I'm your girlfriend." My experience with school dances is zero, but I don't remember anyone taking them this seriously. The main goal is just to get someone to go with you so you don't look like a loser. Don't forget that Parker only chose MJ as his last resort (until he saw her).

Well, not like peter seemed that hurt. I give up. :sweat:

Never been one for causal dating...too much of a romantic I guess.

Glad I'm not dating MJ. Is this a "solid" date, a test drive, or what?

Seen the episode now. I like this Doc Ock. Anyone else feel deja vu. Office space anyone. I kept looking for a red stapler. :D

[Nightwing]

...I love that.

The symbiote as the Eye of Odin.

Seriously, I do.

Is that from an official synopsis or something you've conjectured? It's definitely a lot cooler than the 'steroid' effect we usually get.

Not only is the "Venom should try to Out-Hero Spider-man" thing brilliant, but so is your Eye of Odin simile, which I love just as much!! VERY thought provoking. You'd think GregX or DTaina would have been the first one to come up with that. :)


Well, not like peter seemed that hurt. I give up. :sweat:

Never been one for causal dating...too much of a romantic I guess.

Glad I'm not dating MJ. Is this a "solid" date, a test drive, or what?

I think MJ is taking the situation a bit lighter than you are, but that's not to say it's a bad thing, and I understand and agree with where you're coming from. She's just getting a taste of socializing. Her dialogue to Peter probably could have been a bit less "Party MJ" in its delivery, but he'll get what she's saying eventually (like Greg said in his recent posts, more or less).

I think a more traditional road for romantic dealings is the smarter idea, because on that road is respect, dignity, and the proper treatment of a lady. But the lack of that isn't the issue with this MJ situation. It's more about spending time with and learning more about a person. Think of it this way. They go on one blind date Aunt May set up, therefore they should be dating exclusively? That's not right either.


Seen the episode now. I like this Doc Ock. Anyone else feel deja vu. Office space anyone. I kept looking for a red stapler. :D

LMAO. Milton! This Dock Ock looks like Milton! Great catch. That is hilarious and I love it.

[GregX]

Not only is the "Venom should try to Out-Hero Spider-man" thing brilliant, but so is your Eye of Odin simile, which I love just as much!! VERY thought provoking. You'd think GregX or DTaina would have been the first one to come up with that. :)

Except that I doubt that's the direction they're going to go with Venom. I'm expecting a much more traditional, psychotic, hateful Venom.

[bigdeath]

I think a more traditional road for romantic dealings is the smarter idea, because on that road is respect, dignity, and the proper treatment of a lady. But the lack of that isn't the issue with this MJ situation. It's more about spending time with and learning more about a person. Think of it this way. They go on one blind date Aunt May set up, therefore they should be dating exclusively? That's not right either.


So my feelings in such a situation won't make sense, Sue me. I'd still be mad. :p Seriously, I know I'm not the only guy that would think: "Oh, right, that was nothing serious. hahaha!" *ANGER*

And all we needed is for Doc Ock to burn Oz corp down and his transformation into Milton will be complete. :D


I'm expecting a much more traditional, psychotic, hateful Venom.

As he should be.

[Wonderwall]

I liked this episode, but felt it a little lacking, especially compared to the last 2 episodes. I thought the side plot stuff was good, the main one just felt..missing something. I felt that the transformation was top notch yet again, but I felt that the change was too abrupt, some more hints in the last episode would've been nice, but for something that was rushed, it wasn't too bad. I also wasn't crazy with Ock's weakness, he's never had that before and it wasn't as clever as Rhino's weakness, it felt kind of tacked on. This wasn't my favorite representation of Ock, but hes far from the useless lackey the 90s series became.

I would've liked to see him do more, as it seemed he didn't do enough, I wont say he didn't do a lot, because he did do quite a bit, it just seemed more should have happened. I think ,my ,main complaint was that the main plot didn't offer that much, but the sub plots were all handled expertly, Peter's social life, Peter's peers hanging out and interacting, Harry's "drug" use, Gwen's worries about Harry, Classic MJ, the Goblin still at large.

The action scenes were good too, although I wasn't crazy with the Spider Man 2 nod, it just seemed to lack a little, and WAY too much use of that blurry slow mo effect, it didn't look so hot to me, and it looked to me like a cheat to hide maybe some animation, as the amount it was used seemed quite often. I liked the Doc Ock fights though, when the camera spun around his legs was done very well( where was that in the opening scene ). So overall, I give it a 4, a good episode that had lots of plot threads dangling and all of them handled well, except the main one, which seemed to misstep a bit.

Edit: Fixed.

[W.C.Reaf]

Paragraphs, dude. They make everything easier.


I also wasn't crazy with Ock's weakness, he's never had that before and it wasn't as clever as Rhino's weakness, it felt kind of tacked on.

Thing is though his arms are mechanical, therefore need power, and since we haven't actually made a fully self-sustaining power source yet it makes sense that Ock would need to swap out power supplies.

I also think it was mentioned elsewhere that in the comics Ock had a power source as well.

[Anwar]

Except that I doubt that's the direction they're going to go with Venom. I'm expecting a much more traditional, psychotic, hateful Venom.

Yeah, but this Eddie doesn't seem as shallow or unstable as 616 Brock was. So either the symbiote seriously messes up his brain or something REALLY awful happens in the next 3 episodes to make him hate Peter

[Miyamoto Musashi]

I have some points about this episode:

1. Doctor Octavius was sympathizing how he got in that accident and his "I've been good" line.

2. I've never his origin so beautifully detailed, neither the comics or the movie. "Are You sure this is a kiddies cartoon?"

3. I remember reading "Dr. Thwaki" in comic, but I can't remember where exactly. Can someone pinpoint me to that story please:bugs1:


4. In "Untold Tales of Spider-Man" Kurt Buseik got rid of "Sally Avril" as a high school student. Do you prefer this kind of a story for her to get rid of her nasty manners or the Symbiote Spider-Man giving her a reason to shut her beak for good? I know I'd like to see that one cause this girl blamed Parker for nothing bad he did.

[Anwar]

I want to see "Venomized" Peter doing nasty stuff to Flash and Sally.

[Wonderwall]

Thing is though his arms are mechanical, therefore need power, and since we haven't actually made a fully self-sustaining power source yet it makes sense that Ock would need to swap out power supplies.

I also think it was mentioned elsewhere that in the comics Ock had a power source as well.

That makes sense, but to me it still felt tacked on. I've never known Ock to have a power source in the comics, so looks like I'll have to do some research.

[GregX]

That makes sense, but to me it still felt tacked on. I've never known Ock to have a power source in the comics, so looks like I'll have to do some research.

To my knowledge, he never had a power source that was mentioned. But honestly, does that make much sense?

[Wonderwall]

To my knowledge, he never had a power source that was mentioned. But honestly, does that make much sense?

I suppose it doesn't. It's not something I'll dwell on( Im not like some fans who cant let little things go ), after all I did think the way he was beaten was clever. Besides it was one of my minor complaints that I gave passing mention to, I had other complaints on an otherwise solid episode.

[Anwar]

In the comics there was the bizarre aspect of him being able to mentally control the arms even when they aren't attached to him which didn't make much sense seeing how there was no real computer components, it was just a harness.

Somehow this meant that the arms are powered by Octavius' brainpower, meaning he must REALLY be smart...

[Miyamoto Musashi]

3. I remember reading "Dr. Twaki" in comic, but I can't remember where exactly.
I just remembered; Dr. Twaki was create by "Howard Mackie" & "John Byrne" in "Amazing Spider-Man v2" as the chief of TRICORP

[Manhunter]

I want to see "Venomized" Peter doing nasty stuff to Flash and Sally.

Co-sign. I had the perfect scene thought out for a confrontation between Flash and "Venomized" Peter.

I'd just like to see Peter tell Sally off once and for all, Venomized or not. That little bitca is on my last nerve.

Definitely liked this episode. Count me as another person who really felt for Otto when Goblin trapped him. Also, I thought the Peter/Liz sequence was sweet.

[Hanshotfirst113]

To my knowledge, he never had a power source that was mentioned. But honestly, does that make much sense?

Going by the weird sense of logic that comic books follow, the arms are wired into his spine, so the "power source," as such, would technically be his brain :p.

[Anwar]

Going by the weird sense of logic that comic books follow, the arms are wired into his spine, so the "power source," as such, would technically be his brain :p.

Which explains why he's alternatively fat and thin. Powering the arms used up his bio-energy so it slimmed him down after a while. Then he had to pig out between stories to be able to use the arms again!:D

[bigdeath]

so the "power source," as such, would technically be his brain

I know your joking but being a totally geek I must point out that there is a difference between nerves giving commands and the energy needed to carry out those commands. Muscles carry out the commands and gain the energy from nutrients provided by blood. That can't be used by the metal tentacles so they would logically need another power source. I'm surprise that was never used in the comics, what a plot hole. Seriously, did noone think of what the power source for those arms were before? :shrug:

[Spider-Man]

This show really knows how to put the intensity. I was surprised at the transformation scene for Doc Ock. Either I'm not used to Saturday morning cartoons and what they can portray or the show is really pushing some boundaries. Still it was a great episode and it was really excellent to see Doc Ock in all his glory. This series has yet to have a bad episode to date. Almost allof them have been excellent with only a couple dipping slightly in quality. This episode continues the stellar run of this show's first season. Great casting for Doc Ock too!

[TwoFaced_Dark24]

For some reason, I wasn't really much into this episode. Dock Ock's transformation into his arrogant and megalomaniacal comic book counterpart was too forced imo.

[Anwar]

I admit compared to the other transformations I did find it a tad subpar (which still makes it very good). Maybe if they'd shown Otto having those violent fantasies in one or two prior episodes...

[Pepperidge]

While it was a great episode overall, I have to admit it's one of the few that's disappointed me ever so slightly thusfar. Doc Ock is a character that I really feel could've benefitted from a Bruce Timm-style two part origin. Yes, the episode covered pretty much ever relevant part of his character in a timely manner, and while not as rushed as Electro's origin was (a character that I think needed a two-parter), it felt like they turned down opportunities to reflect a little more on his character and transformation that they could've taken.

Just because he had appeared in previous episodes doesn't necessarily make Otto a well developed character. Yes, we know about his job, his general disposition, and that he had at least a professional relationship with Adrian Toombs. But couldn't we have gotten at least a brief glimpse of his personal life? Perhaps a scene of him mulling in his apartment pre-transformation. And of course, having him rise from the rubble with full realization of what has happened to him after the indicident was kind of off-putting to me, and was one of those points where I couldn't help but compare it to Spider-Man 2. Having some kind of S&P-friendly equivalent to the hospital scene from that movie would've helped immensely - much more so than having him battle with Spider-Man almost immediately.

Of course, they still used pretty much all of the best elements from Spider-Man 2, and the origin we see here actually made a bit more sense. (ie: none of that inhibitor chip/arms-as-sentient-beings nonsense). And after the origin, it was pretty much all gold. Still a very strong episode despite my petty complaints.

[warnerbroman]

poor doc ock

[Nygma]

I find this and The Uncertainty Principle to be the weakest episodes to appear thus far. Though this is still a good episode.

I'm in agreement with Stu that Peter Macnicoal was miscasted as Doctor Otto Octavius. His voice felt too annoying and overbearing for this show's version of Doc Ock. It's too bad as I enjoyed him as Chronos in JLU.His change from timid and shy scientist to a fed up/under appreciated Mad scientist wanting to take over the world happened way too fast, for my liking. I liked his design though.

On the flip side I did enjoy the stuff between Peter & Liz on Coney Island. And the fight sequences continue to satisfy. What I like about this show is if one side of the show doesn't provide enough satisfaction for an episode (the Spidey side/or the high school side) the other side of an episode can make up for its shortcomings (the Spidey side/or the high school side). Competition is a great example of this.

Overall good episode, but not as great as the others so far.
****1/2

[Miyamoto Musashi]

For some reason, I wasn't really much into this episode. Dock Ock's transformation into his arrogant and megalomaniacal comic book counterpart was too forced imo.
Not necessarily forced, actually "Doctor Octavius" mind got altered after his metallic tentacles fused to his body in a way to comprehend with the change that happened to him. So his wild mind origin is very loyal to the original "Steve Ditko" & "StanLee" version

[Anwar]

But wasn't Octavius already an arrogant type before his accident in the original story?

[sdp]

I read that this episode was edited now that 4Kids took over, is it true?

I got it form /co/ so it wouldn't be surprising if it was just some guy trolling..




Originally, in the episode that was just on, when Doctor Octopus goes to pick up that long-lasting power supply and rants about how the company stole the research from him, the guy (Dr. Twaki) refuses, saying how Octopus was an employee at the time and signed over his research. Octopus then "persuades" him into talking. In the repeat that was just on, though, they skip all of that and jump right to Twaki telling him where the stuff is.

If you've never seen the episode, then it wouldn't have been at all noticable, but it was just on a few weeks ago

[GohanWinner]

};2877877']I read that this episode was edited now that 4Kids took over, is it true?

I got it form /co/ so it wouldn't be surprising if it was just some guy trolling..
Heh heh, I just came over to check the same thing. Yeah, looks like he was right. A really pointless edit, too. Twaki says nothing about him being work for hire, and Ock just says something about persuasion and Twaki gives him the info. It was a kind of pointless edit, if that even happened. I imagine it could easily just be for time purposes.

[Miyamoto Musashi]

But wasn't Octavius already an arrogant type before his accident in the original story?
They used the part of the change of mind, that's my point.
Meaning: Stop trashing the revolution of the weak, at least he had in his mind the idea of knocking his too bossy boss out.

[warnerbroman]

They used the part of the change of mind, that's my point.
Meaning: Stop trashing the revolution of the weak, at least he had in his mind the idea of knocking his too bossy boss out. looked more like he killed him

[Reg]

"SILENCE, you imperious moron!"

Imperious! The show is educational too. Was the first time I'd ever heard that word in my life. ;)

[W.C.Reaf]

"SILENCE, you imperious moron!"

Imperious! The show is educational too. Was the first time I'd ever heard that word in my life. ;)

That's one of the things I liked about Ock as well. His dialog was fantastic.

[TwoFaced_Dark24]

"SILENCE, you imperious moron!"

Imperious! The show is educational too. Was the first time I'd ever heard that word in my life. ;)

I love that line.



Very Doctor Octopus.

[GregX]

};2877877']I read that this episode was edited now that 4Kids took over, is it true?

I got it form /co/ so it wouldn't be surprising if it was just some guy trolling..

Pure fiction. I just double checked with, not only my copy of the episode (from its first airing), but a friend who works on the show.

Twaki never refused Ock. Nothing was cut.

This is how rumors get started.

[Thorn]

Thorn casts "revive" on talkback

That metallic harness of Ock's is the best mobility aid ever. I mean forever ever. When I was a kid I dreamed of and pined for a rig like that, but what'd I get? Wheelwalkers and cuff canes. Curse physical therapists and their infuriating lack of vision! How else was I to rise above and conquer those who vexed me? :sad:

Yes, Invader Zim pushes all kinds of power fantasy buttons for me too. However did you guess? :confused:

To begin, I am happy Ock does not sport a bowl cut. You'd think a hairstyle that gets in one's eyes would drive a scientist, well, mad. Too, I like that he has black hair. One thing I never understood during my childhood on-again-off-again flirtations with the nineties series is why he was portrayed as a full-blooded German. "Octavius" is a really Italian surname, no mistaking. That was part of why Molina (of Spanish-Italian extraction) was cast in the film, yes? I love Ock's verbosity, (his hatred of Spidey's banter is hypocritical, given his tendency to speechify...jealous much?) his cyberpunky goggles, and his ability to predict Spidey's tactics. Also I like that he can vascillate from high-volume ranting to hushed menace. Awesome work by Peter MacNicol, easily my favorite since X the Eliminator.

I like the whole Jekyll-takes-a-permanent-vacation aspect of this transformation. No Otto, has not been "good," he's been "passive," tacitly consenting to the evil his boss does but for some very tentative, sidelong objections. He may have had qualms, but he knew full well of Osborn's theft of Tech-Flight from a colleague, and did nothing. And from his prideful little expositive-rant about Rhino's suit, he got more enjoyment out of developing supervillains than he let on, even to himself. Still, I hope we eventually get a peek into Octavius' background, and what happened to make him so very timid before the electromagnetic shock did a number on his inhibitions/sanity. Was he, unlike Peter, beaten down by his tormentors in his student days?

Anyway, for those who still suspect Harry as the Goblin, keep in mind that Spidey had to slingshot himself across town just to get to Oscorp. (Terminal velocity? What's that?) Could Harry have run from school, swung by wherever he stores his gobby-gear for a quickchange, gotten to Oscorp by glider, majorly messed up Otto's day, flown back to where he ratholes his glider-and-things, and run back to school to pass out on the ground in his letter jacket? Oh, the travails of a teenager hopped up on performance-enhancers!

What a jerk he was too, jumping over Gwen in the chaos at Coney island, and next seen congratulating Peter on his perceived predatory dating tactics and then his home, where he's contentedly downing another vial of nastiness. Thank goodness for MJ. Gwen, wouldn't you rather have a friend who likes you?

I tend to wonder if Gwen will do enough detective work on her own, out of concern, to find the skeletons lurking in the Osborn closets. She seems smart enough, and sharper on the initial uptake than Pete, but then of course she'd be in deep trouble if she were caught snooping around, say Oscorp or the Osborn penthouse, after stumbling onto something rather bigger than a steroid stash.

And...teenagers are so...ugh, Flash and Liz. They're really both at fault, but also not, because they don't know what they're doing or what and who they want and it's just hanging out at the carnival only it's not and oh the raging hormones! Agh. But Liz gets to be more broken up about the relationship ending, and as a woman I don't particularly think that's fair. Oh, the emo of it all. Shut up Sally.

[ShadowStar]

Don't know if anyone else has pointed this out (a few people probably have), but did anyone notice that Norman had the safety key in his hand when he showed up following Otto's accident? If the Goblin really is Harry, they'll need to come up with a great explanation for that one.

[Mistah K88]

Heck they'll have to explain Harry's motivations for trying to kill Octavius in the first place. Norman cannot have "weak men working in his company".

[ShadowStar]

Heck they'll have to explain Harry's motivations for trying to kill Octavius in the first place. Norman cannot have "weak men working in his company".

Actually that's quite easily explained; in "The Invisible Hand", Hammerhead tells Norman that Dr. Octavious could link the supervillains back to Oscorp. Then Harry bursts in, having been eavesdropping moments before (it's obvious from his look as he leaves that he knows perfectly well what they were talking about). Then, in "Reaction", one could surmise that Harry decided to try and bump off Octavious while he was on his own, in a bid to get rid of a potential weak link who could rat his father out for his dealings with the Big Man.

But I still prefer the theory that Norman was behind it. It's even more plausible with Norman, especially when you think of the Big Man's line at the end of "Market Forces" about Norman's "more questionable experiments" (and Norman's subsequent evil grin).

[W.C.Reaf]

Actually I believe the key Norman has is an "emergency override" one in case of, well, emergencies. The computer voice over identified it as such.

[Thorn]

Actually I believe the key Norman has is an "emergency override" one in case of, well, emergencies. The computer voice over identified it as such.

Right. The key Gobby uses is actually Otto's, left on the console.

[kaine23]

Watching this ep I pretty much recognized almost everything at Coney island. ^^

[DawnWarrior]

He may have had qualms, but he knew full well of Osborn's theft of Tech-Flight from a colleague, and did nothing.
Colleagues indeed. As if the first episode didn't make it clear, one of the pictures in Ock's apartment is of him and Tooms.

Ah, another 'Gargoyles' reference: the face over the gate in the scary/love tunnel with Liz & Peter looks a lot like Broadway.

[DBTrilogy100]

The 2nd (and my least favorite) episode of the Green Goblin Arc. Right after the 1st one, we meet the 2nd of Spider-Man's unholy trinity...Dr. Octopus.

*Spider-Man is Hitch! We see the results in Gangland.

*MJ let's Peter down softly. No worries, we have so much time before they get together (Pete did have other girlfriends after all).

*Green Goblin is the Catalyst to Dr. Octopus' arrival and the reaction is chaos! You just got to love Greg and crews' use for the episode titles.

*Nice references to the movie, Otto seems to have changed his posture as well.

*Coney Island is an amusement park? I always knew it as a restaurant chain *cue "The More You Know" music*.

*The power pack idea is new, very clever Greg and crew.

*2nd episode that doesn't feature Eddie Brock (his "counterpart" has not appeared yet either, but will).

*John is off to space and will come back with a hitchhiker...

*Very appropriate for Doc Ock to appear in the 8th episode (I also like all the references to the #.

*Sally blames Pete for Liz & Flash's breakup. Sometimes I just want to slap that witch to HFIL.

*Norman has a sinister smile on his face...

Next episode features tricks, treats and terror!