Marvel or DC: Who has the better upcoming animation slate?

[Spider-Man]

With the announcement of the new Black Panther series, it seems like Marvel is dominating the animation front in the next few years:

Marvel:

-Spectacular Spider-Man (currently airing)
-Wolverine & The X-Men
-Iron Man: Armored Adventures
-Black Panther
-Untitled Hulk Cartoon
-More Marvel cartoons apparently in the works
-Lionsdate/Marvel Animated DTVs (Next Avengers, Planet Hulk, other titles)

DC:

-Batman: The Brave and The Bold
-More DC Toons apparently in the works
-DC Universe Animated Original Movies (Batman: Gotham Knight, Wonder Woman, other titles)

Who do you think has the better upcoming slate for cartoons and which ones do you think will be more successful. Do you think we will see a lot more DC cartoons announced so DC can try and match what Marvel has coming? Which ones are you most and least excited about?

[JRP82190]

DC's wining the DTV front but Marvel is wining the TV front I'll be the first to say Batman is one of my favorite hero's but do we really need another Batman cartoon a year after The Batman ended?

[thundarr82]

Spider-Man, Isn't the next Hulk dtv Hulk Vs in 2009 followed by Planet Hulk in 2010?

I prefer the Marvel upcoming as there is the new X-Men cartoon, Wolverine and The X-Men, 2 Hulk dtv's plus a new animated series, A prime time Black Panther cartoon ( I suppose it will be for an older audience that the Iron Man: Armored Adventures.) as well as the still unknown Superhero Squad.

[W.C.Reaf]

I'd have to go with Marvel. They have a more varied line up that isn't relying on the same two heroes to sell their products. Wonder Woman's a good sign in the DTV department but can we get some new ongoing TV shows, please DC?

Although even if that wasn't the case Marvel would still get my vote because Spec Spidey has got me more excited than any other comic cartoon that I've ever seen.

Also Black Panther airing at prime time is going to be interesting to see.

[creativerealms]

Marvel currently, DC is just too focused on the Bat with other characters getting reduced to guest stars.

[Silverstar]

Until DC gets over their Batman Fever, I've got to go with Marvel. Their upcoming projects are just more varied and diverse right now.

[batgirl2007]

I'm just wondering will Marvel ever make dtvs like DC? I mean with the whole adapting famous graphic novels/storylines to film it could be interesting.:)

[creativerealms]

I'm just wondering will Marvel ever make dtvs like DC? I mean with the whole adapting famous graphic novels/storylines to film it could be interesting.:)

marvel actually started with the comic based DTVs before DC did.

[Harvey Two Face]

I have to say Marvel is kind of dominating at present, but I think if you look at them collectively DC may be winning? I'm not sure, I need someones correction on this.

[JeffBreakdown]

Marvel is better right now...but Doomsday and New Frontier kick the anus of the Marvel DTVs, and Next Avengers looks to be very very bad...but as stated by everyone, Batman is starting to get a little annoying. I love Batman, but c'mon...MAKE ANOTHER ANIMATED SERIES THAT <b><u>DOES NOT HAVE</u></b> BATMAN IN IT!

[Alex Weitzman]

Let it be pointed out that part of the reason Batman has been featured so prominently (even, in the opinions of some, too prominently) is because he's the only character succeeding in any way to make it to the big screen. Superman's film received mixed responses at best and Singer's been flirting with other projects instead of The Man of Steel. Wonder Woman is stuck in limbo, no matter how Joel Silver tries to spin it otherwise. And Justice League just got shelved. Since WB has the nasty habit of not caring about any character they're not bringing to a movie theatre anytime soon, the slate of possible DC cartoons is painfully limited, save what Timm and Warner Premiere are able to do.

[JRP82190]

Let it be pointed out that part of the reason Batman has been featured so prominently (even, in the opinions of some, too prominently) is because he's the only character succeeding in any way to make it to the big screen. Superman's film received mixed responses at best and Singer's been flirting with other projects instead of The Man of Steel. Wonder Woman is stuck in limbo, no matter how Joel Silver tries to spin it otherwise. And Justice League just got shelved. Since WB has the nasty habit of not caring about any character they're not bringing to a movie theatre anytime soon, the slate of possible DC cartoons is painfully limited, save what Timm and Warner Premiere are able to do.
It doesn't help that WB refuses to give any other character a chance I honestly believe if they made a Flash or Green lantern movie/cartoon that it would be a hit there's enough back story in both for them to have a series

[Silverstar]

It doesn't help that WB refuses to give any other character a chance I honestly believe if they made a Flash or Green lantern movie/cartoon that it would be a hit there's enough back story in both for them to have a series

The sad truth is: money talks. WB wouldn't even give any serious thought to a Green Lantern or Flash TV series unless movies starring said characters struck box-office gold. And when was the last time any DC-based superhero movie without 'Super' or 'Bat' in the title has even gotten out of the talking stages, let alone got made?

Alex is correct; part of the reason for the Batman overexposure of late is simply because Batman is the only DC superhero to consistently bring in big dollars on the big screen. If Superman Returns had been a blockbuster hit movie, we'd be bombarded with a ton of Superman cartoon shows right now like The Superman and Superman: the Mythic and the Mighty. And if the Wonder Woman feature film goes big (provided it ever gets made) or the Wonder Woman DTV sells millions of copies, then and only then can we hope to ever see a Wonder Woman animated series. As always, it boils down to the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[JRP82190]

The sad truth is: money talks. WB wouldn't even give any serious thought to a Green Lantern or Flash TV series unless movies starring said characters struck box-office gold. And when was the last time any DC-based superhero movie without 'Super' or 'Bat' in the title has even gotten out of the talking stages, let alone got made?

Alex is correct; part of the reason for the Batman overexposure of late is simply because Batman is the only DC superhero to consistently bring in big dollars on the big screen. If Superman Returns had been a blockbuster hit movie, we'd be bombarded with a ton of Superman cartoon shows right now like The Superman and Superman: the Mythic and the Mighty.
My only problem with Batman's current overexposure is that Instead on getting rid of The Batman to make a new show staring batman why not just keep The batman running for a few more season's

[TheVileOne]

Why not just let TNBA continue for a few more seasons instead of doing Batman Beyond? I'm not sure if anyone remembers, but about 10 years ago when Batman Beyond was announced a lot of fans were FURIOUS about this new show with this young teenage Peter Parker ripoff as Batman that was totally racist among other things. Generally those idiots closed their yaps early on, but it was all there.

This is just how things are. Shows run for a while, they end, and new shows are made. That's the nature of the business. Batman's been around in animation for years and he's been largely successful.

Also people need to stop pretending that we never got Teen Titans, Superman, and Legion of Superheroes. Also if you want to be really technical Krypto The Superdog. So Batman isn't the only guy getting a show.

Batman is simply one of the best brandname characters for DC. Batman has the huge $200 million movie coming out this summer. Synergy guys. Just like Wolverine and The X-men is going to push for the new Wolverine movie.

If Green Lantern or Flash ever got big live action movies, I'd bet you dollars to donuts we would probably see animated shows not long after.

[JRP82190]

Why not just let TNBA continue for a few more seasons instead of doing Batman Beyond? I'm not sure if anyone remembers, but about 10 years ago when Batman Beyond was announced a lot of fans were FURIOUS about this new show with this young teenage Peter Parker ripoff as Batman that was totally racist among other things. Generally those idiots closed their yaps early on, but it was all there.

This is just how things are. Shows run for a while, they end, and new shows are made. That's the nature of the business. Batman's been around in animation for years and he's been largely successful.

Also people need to stop pretending that we never got Teen Titans, Superman, and Legion of Superheroes. Also if you want to be really technical Krypto The Superdog. So Batman isn't the only guy getting a show.

Batman is simply one of the best brandname characters for DC. Batman has the huge $200 million movie coming out this summer. Synergy guys. Just like Wolverine and The X-men is going to push for the new Wolverine movie.

If Green Lantern or Flash ever got big live action movies, I'd bet you dollars to donuts we would probably see animated shows not long after.
But Batman Beyond was a continuation on TNBA it wasn't just new for the sake of being new it had history behind it

and how was it racist?

[TheVileOne]

But Batman Beyond was a continuation on TNBA it wasn't just new for the sake of being new it had history behind it

and how was it racist?

It wasn't. All the dren being leveled against it was false stupidity of a bunch of angry fanboys. Continuation or not fans still were furious, angry, and hated the idea of the show.

The Batman was a new show to go along with the hype for Batman Begins. Same with this new show and Dark Knight.

[dark knight 90]

I do agree that Batman is starting to get a bit over-exposed as a character ... but thats only because he's the most consistently reliable and successful one that DC and WB has got at the moment.


While Marvel may be dominating the animation front in terms of quantity, I do believe DC have got the better quality.


I mean i feel that so far...

DC DTV > Marvel DTV's

but

Spectacular Spider-man > The Batman

[thedanmachine]

i think thats really the main reason they keep making batman things, i because he's reliable and a proven money maker.

[Harvey Two Face]

Do you think the movie producers would ever take a chance with JL or TT to put them on the big screen?

[TheVileOne]

Reiven, I guess you haven't been reading the news much ;) .

[RONDC20]

Ok Im an equal Superhero fanboy. I like both Marvel and DC about the same. There are times when I like one better than the other, but for the most part They are equal in my eyes.

My 2 all time favorite superheroes is an example of this. Spider-Man and Batman. In no particular order.

Comic Book wise right now Im preatty much hating what Joe Quesada is doing to Marvel right now. They made Tony Stark into an unlikable jerk, They killed Steve Rogers and don't even get me started on what they did to Spider-Man.

Im liking DC in the comics right now a lot. Infinite Crisis was great. Sinestro Corps War was awsome JLA is great and Final Crisis is gonna be epic.

Movie wise Im liking Marvel more. Iron Man looks great. The New Hulk looks great too. Their plan to make the upcoming films consistent and sharing the same continuity that will all culminate in The Avengers film is genious.

DC is really dropping the ball here. People wan continuity, they want consistency. First were not getting Christian Bale and Brandon Routh in the JL movie. Now I heard that Joel Silver said that the WW in the solo movie will not be the same WW as in the JL movie. UUUGGGHH!!! Theres no consistency, no connection.

Their ignoring what the fans want. I mean they want to beat Marvel to the punch so they anounce a JL movie to introduce all these characters at once. Meanwhile other directors have said that they wish WB would wait till the current Batman and Superman trilogies are finished. People desperately want continuity, but WB seems to think that people won't be confused or turned off by much younger looking actors.

All this in spite of the fan dissaproval on almost every fansite The studios claim they respect and pay attention to fansites, but every bit of new news that we hear on this makes us fans think otherwise. (Thank MARVEL/DC Season 2: Happy Hour #1 for inspiring this rant)

Animation wise well lets look at this from 2 different points. TV and DVD Animated movies.

TV Wise for a loooong time DC was kicking Marvel's butt big times. The only thing that was remotely good from Marvel was X-Men Evolution, but DC dominated the TV animation department. All the Timmverse shows were awsome and despite me hating TT at first I actually grew to like it and I loved LOSH and am really sad to see it canceled.

This has changed. The Batman was mediocure at best. I too think that there is an oversaturaization of Batman despite him being one of may favorite Superheroes. Brave and the Bold looks stupid, plain and simple. What about a Green Lantern series or Flash. How cool would a Doom Patrol series be. A slightly more comedic Booster Gold and Blue Beetle series, anything but Batman again.

Spectacular Spider-Man is just awsome. It's just soooo great. Im not sure about The Iron Man series, but Wolverine and the X-Men looks great. Black Panther sounds like it could be really cool. At least Marvel is tapping other characters.

DTDVD is a mixed bag for me. I really enloyed UA quite a bit. UA2 was ok, but not as good as the first. Invincible Iron Man was also just ok, but Dr Strange was great. Next Avengers sounds soooo unbelievably and monumentally stupid.

I though the whole point of these straight to DVD Marvel animated movies was to appeal to an older superhero fan and not cater to the kiddies, but then they totally go back on their word and do this. They totally sold out. They probably got preasure to make one of these more kid freindly. UUUUGGGGHHH!!!

I hope the Hulk ones are not like this.

I loved Superman/Doomsday and I loved JL: New Frontier so nuff said. Im not too crazy about Batman getting an anime treatment, but I'll give it a shot. I sure WW will be great.

So I guess my point is that at any one point things can change. Right now DC is not perfect and neither is Marvel. They are both making mistakes in some aspect be it comics, movies or animation.

[Rick Jones]

I always expect quality from the DC projects, especially since the legendary Warner Bros Animation Dept. are always the ones behind it. Its like if Disney were making the the Marvel shows, I'd always expect quality from them, too but with Marvel its always a mixed bag. I always prefered the Marvel characters to DC though and I love that they have all of these series and DTVs being produced. I just wish they can all be entertaining

I'm a little disappointed that DC has only one upcoming tv series, for the first time in over a decade. Maybe the quality of the B&B and the few DTVs we know about will make the quantity seem like a non issue.

[DerekPowers]

A prime-time animated Black Panther series?! This is the first i'm hearing of it. Thats awesome!

What network will it be on and when will it premire?? Thats got me excited!

But I still have to say I prefer DC's upcoming projects, if only for the Wonder Woman DTV and the Gotham Knight DTV. I like Marvel too, but as far as their animated stuff goes, so far I've found it lackluster. Ultimate Avengers, to be fair, is the only DTV i've seen, and I wasnt to crazy over it, and I'm also not that into the new Spider-man show.

[Reg]

If I were asked which company had the better toon version of their heroes a few years back, I'd go with DC. I mean the DCAU still to this day has some of the best cartoons that were ever produced.

However, now it seems like Marvel is really stepping up to the plate. Spidey, X-Men, Iron Man, etc. Since I lean more towards Marvel, despite my view of the company right now, I'm really tempted to go with them as I am LOVING Spectacular Spider-Man. Just hope the crews behind the other Marvel show's get the source material right.

[TheVileOne]

I just want to say, just because there are more Marvel cartoon series coming back doesn't mean they are better.

[Sue]

Marvel gets points for churning more shows with a greater variety of characters instead of just one on everything (I'm pointing at you, Batman :p ) But Superman: Doomsday and New Frontier were top shelf. All that matters to me is DC keeping that up; I don't care about live action superhero movies.

[desi]

At this point, Marvel wins easily. Because Marvel is using a very easy strategy: to spread awareness of their B-characters. At this point, Marvel wins because of the quantity of the shows and not quality.

[TheVileOne]

Why does quantity win?

Iron Man, Spider-man, and the X-men starring Wolverine are also not B characters.

Also what about Legion of Super Heroes?

[JRP82190]

Why does quantity win?

Iron Man, Spider-man, and the X-men starring Wolverine are also not B characters.

Also what about Legion of Super Heroes?
I think he's talking about the black panther and dr. strange

[Bludhaven]

Who do you think has the better upcoming slate for cartoons
DC........ by far-:robin:

[ShadowDemon]

Let it be pointed out that part of the reason Batman has been featured so prominently (even, in the opinions of some, too prominently) is because he's the only character succeeding in any way to make it to the big screen. Superman's film received mixed responses at best and Singer's been flirting with other projects instead of The Man of Steel. Wonder Woman is stuck in limbo, no matter how Joel Silver tries to spin it otherwise. And Justice League just got shelved. Since WB has the nasty habit of not caring about any character they're not bringing to a movie theatre anytime soon, the slate of possible DC cartoons is painfully limited, save what Timm and Warner Premiere are able to do.

There's also the ongoing bruhaha over the rights to Superman in the first place, with DC first losing SuperBOY, and now SuperMAN to the Seigel estate.

That can't be helping matters...

On the OT, neither schedule excites me all that much...the new X-Men cartoon sounds too Wolvie-centric for my tastes (How over exposed can one character BE?) I MIGHT watch it if I can get my hands on it though.

If Marvel wants to really get my attention, they should offer up New Warriors (first team) and/or Thunderbolts (again, first team). More Ultimate Avengers would not go amiss on the DTDVD front.

DC is quickly losing my interest alltogether...New Frontiers was servicable at best...Superman/Doomsday was really good, but self limiting.

DC, if it wants to get me really salivating again, needs to go back to it's proven property in the form of the Timm-verse. New JLI, a Green Lantern solo series, and of course more Supes and Bats by the BEST writers those characters have seen in decades!

[Harlan_Phoenix]

DC, if it wants to get me really salivating again, needs to go back to it's proven property in the form of the Timm-verse. New JLI, a Green Lantern solo series, and of course more Supes and Bats by the BEST writers those characters have seen in decades!

No, they don't. They don't need to limit themselves to all those years of continuity. Justice League went on longer than it should have. People need to let the DCAU go, and they need to understand that people move on to do other works.

I loved Doomsday, and I still need to see New Frontier. But DC's DTVs are still looking immensely strong. Brave and the Bold seems a little iffy, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Spectacular Spider-Man is amazing, but Iron Man seems iffy. Again, I'll give it a shot. I can't really see how DC and Marvel's animation can compare at the moment, since the two are focusing on entirely different areas. DC's big on the DTVs, while Marvel seems to be focusing more on shows.

[Silverstar]

No, they don't. They (DC) don't need to limit themselves to all those years of (DCAU) continuity. Justice League went on longer than it should have. People need to let the DCAU go, and they need to understand that people move on to do other works.

Seconded.

I greatly enjoyed the DCAU as well, but it's over; we all need to accept that. Just because Bruce Timm did some great things with the DC characters doesn't make his take the be-all, end-all for DC continuity, nor does it mean that no one else should ever try doing anything with the DC characters.

It's just like with Wolverine & the X-Men; people are constantly saying "Oh, it better be like X-Men: Evolution!" "This series should be a continuation of Evo!" "It should follow-up on Evo!" No, it shouldn't, nor should it have to. X-Men: Evolution was just one take on the X franchise. It wasn't the first rethinking of X-Men, and it won't be the last. Evo is over, folks; deal with it. I'm personally looking forward to seeing something different from both franchises. (Not necessarily The Brave and the Bold, but whatever comes after that. :sweat:)

[TheVileOne]

I think he's talking about the black panther and dr. strange

Isn't an animated Teen Titans movie being made for the DC direct to video series?

[JRP82190]

Isn't an animated Teen Titans movie being made for the DC direct to video series?
i think so your going to have to ask some one else :sweat:

[Harlan_Phoenix]

Isn't an animated Teen Titans movie being made for the DC direct to video series?

Yes, based on Judas Contract.

[ShadowDemon]

Seconded.

I greatly enjoyed the DCAU as well, but it's over; we all need to accept that. Just because Bruce Timm did some great things with the DC characters doesn't make his take the be-all, end-all for DC continuity, nor does it mean that no one else should ever try doing anything with the DC characters.

It's just like with Wolverine & the X-Men; people are constantly saying "Oh, it better be like X-Men: Evolution!" "This series should be a continuation of Evo!" "It should follow-up on Evo!" No, it shouldn't, nor should it have to. X-Men: Evolution was just one take on the X franchise. It wasn't the first rethinking of X-Men, and it won't be the last. Evo is over, folks; deal with it. I'm personally looking forward to seeing something different from both franchises. (Not necessarily The Brave and the Bold, but whatever comes after that. :sweat:)

Why should we NOT ask for more material from writers and formats we KNOW work? The notion that serieses should go ~60 eps and then be cancelled is a load of cr*p!

There is plenty of room in both the Evo-Verse AND the Timm-verse for more stories (the EVo-verse in particular...hello? Phoenix Saga anyone?).

Some arbritrary number of eps limit shouldn't stop good stories being told in good universes.

But, for the sake of arguement, we agree to disagree.

Why for the X-Men do we get something taken from the Morrison/Quietly X-Men fiasco? Scemma 'shipping, anybody? Give me a break.

Why not remake the 90s show in better animation? That would be 1000% better than this refugee idea from the "Quesieda-verse" (also known as one of Marvel's two "Mirror Universe"es).

Why not tell more JL stories in a different format? There were whole subunits of the League that never got significant story time. Likewise why CAN'T Green Lantern have his own show, even if it isn't Timm-verse compliant?

[Harlan_Phoenix]

Why should we NOT ask for more material from writers and formats we KNOW work? The notion that serieses should go ~60 eps and then be cancelled is a load of cr*p!

It's not crap when the actual creators want to do something else.

[Anarky]

This Q is all about what's coming down the pike from both camps:

TV Animation

Marvel: The Spectacular Spider-Man
so far, so good:D

DC: The Brave & The Bold
the designs suggest this show may skew younger than The Batman, the jury is still out on this one

Marvel: upcoming programs include Iron, The Hulk, Black Panther, and Wolvering & the X-Men. Of the lot, I've only seen clips from Wolvie. Looks promising however I'm burned they chose to broadcast on NickToons, a network I don't subscribe to.

DTV

Marvel: Avengers Next. Is this Marvel trying to do Teen Titans? We'll see.
other projects include Hulk & Thor. Scant details so who knows how those will turn out.

DC: Batman: Gotham Knight looks to be the best yet in the DCU series. I'm really looking forward to the Wonder Woman DTV as well. Last I heard, Teen Titans: Judas Contract was bumped further down the production line in favor of other projects.

I'm more excited over DC projects, namely their DTVs but I'm hopeful for Marvel's projects. As long as they don't resurrect that Hulk & Son concept!

[TheVileOne]

Yes, based on Judas Contract.

So basically people can stop harping on and on about DC only using Batman.


Why should we NOT ask for more material from writers and formats we KNOW work? The notion that serieses should go ~60 eps and then be cancelled is a load of cr*p!

Most animated action/adventure shows will barely last 13-26 episodes here. So for certain super hero shows to do this is pretty significant.


There is plenty of room in both the Evo-Verse AND the Timm-verse for more stories (the EVo-verse in particular...hello? Phoenix Saga anyone?).

Bruce Timm said he was ready to move on, and that's what he did. What is the problem with this?

Guess what? The creators of X-men Evolution are the same guys who are doing Wolverine and The X-men. They wanted to do something different. They did the epilogue and foreshadowing of the Phoenix just in case they would come back, but they knew it was pretty much the end and gave it a decent ending.


Some arbritrary number of eps limit shouldn't stop good stories being told in good universes.


They haven't. Let's see 91 episodes of JLU. 52 episodes of Superman: TAS. 52 for Batman Beyond, and a whole bunch more for BTAS and TNBA. So what are you whining about?


Why for the X-Men do we get something taken from the Morrison/Quietly X-Men fiasco? Scemma 'shipping, anybody? Give me a break.

You obviously don't know anything about the Morrison/Quietly run of X-men OR the new Wolverine and The X-men series because they are nothing a like at all. This new show has the characters wearing some of their Astonishing X-men costumes designed by John Cassaday from the Joss Whedon/Cassaday run of Astonishing X-men. Wolverine was NEVER a leader of the X-men during the Morrison run. It was always Cyclops. There was no Ultimate Universe style John Wraith. It was nothing like how this new story works. So you are going to need something better than this flimsy argument.


Why not remake the 90s show in better animation? That would be 1000% better than this refugee idea from the "Quesieda-verse" (also known as one of Marvel's two "Mirror Universe"es).


What are you talking about? If creators went by your own weird logic we never would've gotten the X-men Evolution series which you apparently like.

What's the point of doing the exact same show over again? What's wrong with telling new stories with new animation?


Why not tell more JL stories in a different format?

JUSTICE LEAGUE: NEW FRONTIER, go rent it.

The latest season of THE BATMAN featuring numerous episodes with its own Justice League including Green Lantern Hal Jordan.


There were whole subunits of the League that never got significant story time. Likewise why CAN'T Green Lantern have his own show, even if it isn't Timm-verse compliant?

Because there's no Green Lantern movie coming out right now. Green Lantern though was a featured player in New Frontier and the last season of The Batman. If the Green Lantern movie in development gets put into production it will be much more likely a new animated direct to video movie or TV series gets made.

[Silverstar]

Why should we NOT ask for more material from writers and formats we KNOW work? The notion that serieses should go ~60 eps and then be cancelled is a load of cr*p!

Let's clear something up right now: JLU wasn't canceled, it ENDED. Big difference. JLU's ending had nothing to do with episode quotas; creators and network each decided that they had done enough. We even got a bonus season of JLU. Same deal with X-Men: Evolution. It wasn't canceled, it ended. The characters 'evolved' when they graduated and became adults, the X-Men. There were never any plans to take Evo any further.


There is plenty of room in both the Evo-Verse AND the Timm-verse for more stories (the EVo-verse in particular...hello? Phoenix Saga anyone?).

Some arbritrary number of eps limit shouldn't stop good stories being told in good universes.

Again, you're acting under the assumption that both shows ceased production because they reached a certain amount of episodes and then got canned by the networks. Incorrect. The people behind each show chose to move on. If the creators don't want to do anymore, then there won't be anymore. And we've already seen the Phoenix Saga on the 90's FOX show, so what would be the point of rehashing it on Evo? (Besides, how do you know that the Phoenix thing won't be depicted or in some way alluded to on Wolverine & the X-Men?)


But, for the sake of arguement, we agree to disagree.

We're not agreeing to disagree on anything, 'cause there's no argument going on here. You're just basically trying to squeeze milk out of two shows which have over and out of production for years. Beating a dead horse, proverbially speaking.


Why not remake the 90s show in better animation? That would be 1000&#37; better than this refugee idea from the "Quesieda-verse" (also known as one of Marvel's two "Mirror Universe"es).

A new X-Men show with better animation than the FOX show I agree would be nice (and we're already getting such a show with the upcoming Wolverine Etc., but a remake of the FOX show? No. I'd rather see something new than a bunch of rehashes of stories I've already seen 20 times already. IMO, The 90's X-Men show was great (I'm one of the few people who liked X-Men: TAS better than Evo) but it's time to move on.


Why not tell more JL stories in a different format? There were whole subunits of the League that never got significant story time.

I'm not against the idea of more DC shows, but I honestly don't see what else they could do with JLU. IMHO, the series ran longer than it needed to. Besides, you've already gotten The Batman (new Batman adventures in a different format than JL) which featured a different take on the Justice League in its' final season, and you're getting more appearances by obscure DC heroes on the upcoming Brave and the Bold show, which is also a different format than JL/JLU, so what are you complaining about?


Likewise why CAN'T Green Lantern have his own show, even if it isn't Timm-verse compliant?

Because Green Lantern doesn't have a hit movie to cash in on. DC isn't going to just pour money into any given project willy-nilly; they would have to be convinced that any hero other than Superman or Batman would be popular enough to warrant such treatment. If a GL movie is made and it actually makes it out of development limbo and strikes box office gold, then we'll see a Green Lantern animated series for sure.

Anyway, you seem to be contradicting yourself; first, you say that you think Bruce Timm should continue with JLU, and now you're saying that you want to see other non-Timm DC animated shows, which is precisely what I said earlier. Which is it?

[ShadowDemon]

Anyway, you seem to be contradicting yourself; first, you say that you think Bruce Timm should continue with JLU, and now you're saying that you want to see other non-Timm DC animated shows, which is precisely what I said earlier. Which is it?

My preference would be for new Timm-verse or T-verse compliant shows.

Barring returning to the T-verse, I would like to see (and would be willing to sample) a new Justice League ongoing series that placed it's emphasis on the "regular League-ers" as opposed to focusing on the "Big 7". I would also like to see an on-going Green Lantern series.

Does that clear things up?

[Blackstar]

My preference would be for new Timm-verse or T-verse compliant shows.

Barring returning to the T-verse, I would like to see (and would be willing to sample) a new Justice League ongoing series that placed it's emphasis on the "regular League-ers" as opposed to focusing on the "Big 7". I would also like to see an on-going Green Lantern series.

Personally, I'd rather see another director's take on the Big Leaguers than a series about about the "ham 'n' egger" super heroes, but that's just me. Episodes such as "The Greatest Story Never Told" or "Patriot Act" are OK once in a while, but that formula would completely fail as an endless series, IMO. Who wants to see 2nd string players like Vibe, Gypsy and the Crimson Avenger every week? Not me.

As for a Green Lantern series, as was said earlier, the only way we're going to see that is if the GL movie ever finds it's way out development hell and actually does well at the box office.

[Silverstar]

My preference would be for new Timm-verse or T-verse compliant shows.

Barring returning to the T-verse, I would like to see (and would be willing to sample) a new Justice League ongoing series that placed it's emphasis on the "regular League-ers" as opposed to focusing on the "Big 7". I would also like to see an on-going Green Lantern series.

Does that clear things up?

The former idea is more or less being covered with The Brave and the Bold, and the latter isn't going to happen unless America suddenly catches Green Lantern Fever, and that's not going to happen unless we get something like a GL feature film which breaks box office records or a DTV which sells millions of copies. Something like that would have to happen before DC will entertain the thought of making an animated series without 'Bat' or 'Super' in the title. Bats and Supes are proven cash-cows, Green Lantern and the others have yet to prove themselves TV franchise-worthy.

[Harlan_Phoenix]

The former idea is more or less being covered with The Brave and the Bold

And, naturally, its the show that a lot of people are crying about.

Imagine that.

[TheVileOne]

You've got hundreds of episodes of Timm and Dini DCAU shows on DVD ShadowDemon. You have nothing to complain about.

Fans should be more greatful that Justice League even happened at all. Fans begged for something like a Justice League series for years and it finally happened. It was on for a long time and got 91 episodes. So what's the problem?

People like the new DVD movies that are letting the same creators tell stories in ways they haven't before. Why do they have have to be limited by being in the same continuity as the older shows?

So much was done with the timeline of the older shows, why can't you just enjoy what you have and give the new shows a chance?

[Harlan_Phoenix]

So much was done with the timeline of the older shows, why can't you just enjoy what you have and give the new shows a chance?

Remember that thing from Futurama? Where Fry talks about how people like the same thing over and over?

That.

[ShadowDemon]

Personally, I'd rather see another director's take on the Big Leaguers than a series about about the "ham 'n' egger" super heroes, but that's just me. Episodes such as "The Greatest Story Never Told" or "Patriot Act" are OK once in a while, but that formula would completely fail as an endless series, IMO. Who wants to see 2nd string players like Vibe, Gypsy and the Crimson Avenger every week? Not me.

Could I ask why (question, not arguement)? Why is Superman/Luthor Round #1googleplex (for example) more interesting to you than finding out new things about characters that very few know that much about, like your list above, or Zatanna, or Star Spangled Girl and STRIPE?

Other excellent examples of stories with the "ham and eggers" (as you put it, a term I'd never use myself) include "Fearful Symmetry" (aka "Galatea")."The Cat and the Canary", the classic "Double Date", and "Chaos at the Earth's Core".


As for a Green Lantern series, as was said earlier, the only way we're going to see that is if the GL movie ever finds it's way out development hell and actually does well at the box office.

Why is a successful movie required to have a successful TV series? If WB Movie Division has dropped the ball, then the TV division should try for the fumble.

[TheVileOne]

All of those shows are on DVD. So ShadowDemon can just buy those and watch them over and over.

I'm just annoyed that people act like suddenly all these years and past shows are meaningless now that the creators are doing something different.

[ShadowDemon]

All of those shows are on DVD. So ShadowDemon can just buy those and watch them over and over.

I'm just annoyed that people act like suddenly all these years and past shows are meaningless now that the creators are doing something different.

I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth...

"I'm just annoyed at people who act like suddenly all these years and past shows are" supposed to be dismissed and forgotten now that the creators are doing something different. If I like something, why is it wrong for me to ask for more of it?

There is an annoying degree of "groupthink" in this thread right now and anyone who doesn't immediately embrace the "YAY with the new!" party-line gets dumped on...reminds me of the way the Old School Marvel fans were (and still are) treated by Joe Quesieda...ie "You're Old Fans, you like what WAS, you're OUTDATED, and we don't want you anymore!"

[Harlan_Phoenix]

We're not dumping on people. I'm just saying, if I were any major member of the DCAU staff, I'd be pissed if people kept wanting me to do one thing when I wanted to move on to something else.

[Blackstar]

Could I ask why (question, not arguement)? Why is Superman/Luthor Round #1googleplex (for example) more interesting to you than finding out new things about characters that very few know that much about, like your list above, or Zatanna, or Star Spangled Girl and STRIPE?

Since it's not an argument, I'd be happy to tell you why...

It's because when you have a Justice League project without any of the top tier DC heroes in it, 9 times out 10, you'll end up with something like this:
http://chud.com/nextraimages/JusticePoster.jpg

That's an image from the Canadian Justice League TV pilot. There was no Superman, not Batman, and no Wonder Woman, and it was gawd-awful. Which is why I'll take the Elite DC heroes over the ham 'n' eggers any day. If you want a quality project, you can't have a JL with just the bench warmers. It simply can't be done.

Mind you, I never said that DC (or Marvel either, for that matter) should never use their B or C Teams at all, I just have no desire to see a TV series featuring these "lesser" characters exclusively. A new series starring the Super 7 with the occasional guest spot by a more obscure, less celebrated hero would be just fine by me.


Other excellent examples of stories with the "ham and eggers" (as you put it, a term I'd never use myself) include "Fearful Symmetry" (aka "Galatea")."The Cat and the Canary", the classic "Double Date", and "Chaos at the Earth's Core".Eh, I hated 'Double Date", mainly because I hate JLU's Huntress and her romance with Question seemed very forced and tagged on to me.


Why is a successful movie required to have a successful TV series? If WB Movie Division has dropped the ball, then the TV division should try for the fumble.I don't make the rules. That's just how the industry works. TV producers usually aren't willing to spend millions of dollars on a project that people may not like. They usually wait for a hit movie, so then they know said project is popular with fans and there's a good chance that it will be a bona fide hit.

[TheVileOne]

I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth...

"I'm just annoyed at people who act like suddenly all these years and past shows are" supposed to be dismissed and forgotten now that the creators are doing something different. If I like something, why is it wrong for me to ask for more of it?

No one is forgetting about them or dismissing them. THEY WERE ON A LONG TIME FOR A LOT OF EPISODES. The show ENDED. Time to find a new show. It's not like they didn't continue on with that continuity for many years and MULTIPLE series. Timm was ready to call it quits.

You apparently like X-men Evolution. But had it just been the same as the 90's X-men series, then X-men Evolution would never have happened at all.

So again, what's the problem?


There is an annoying degree of "groupthink" in this thread right now and anyone who doesn't immediately embrace the "YAY with the new!" party-line gets dumped on...reminds me of the way the Old School Marvel fans were (and still are) treated by Joe Quesieda...ie "You're Old Fans, you like what WAS, you're OUTDATED, and we don't want you anymore!"

No one's asking you to embrace New Frontier, the Batman anime, The Brave and The Bold or Wolverine and The X-men. But I already exposed how LITTLE you truly know about that show for you to compare it to Morrison's X-men run from several years ago.

But maybe, you know maybe, enjoy what was given to you from all the older series and just maybe give this new stuff some of which is being produced by the same people a chance.

If the shows created by Timm and Dini are so sacred to you in the first place, you should be happy they are still working in DC animation.

[Toddman]

Again, you're acting under the assumption that both shows ceased production because they reached a certain amount of episodes and then got canned by the networks. Incorrect. The people behind each show chose to move on. If the creators don't want to do anymore, then there won't be anymore.


That's completely inaccurate.

The desicions to end JLU, TT and The Batman were all network decisions. Normally, when an animated series hits a certain amount of episodes (be it 52 or 65 or whatever) the network that originally ordered the series will decline to order any further seasons. Because at that point, the show has produced enough episodes to live on in syndication and to produce new episodes would be cost-prohibitive. An animated adventure series usually only makes money in the first place because of merchandise sales and re-broadcasting fees.

There have been a number of interviews with the creators of these series in which they state they never know if they'll get picked up for another season or not. In fact many go on to say they would have been ready and willing to make more shows if the network hadn't pulled the plug. In Bruce Timm's case in particular he has been quoted as saying the creative team was already considering ideas for a potential new season of JLU before they found out they weren't being renewed.

Not once have I ever read that he and the rest of his team "chose" to end the show before moving on to something else.


Toddman

[Wonderwall]

While thats true, the last 2 seasons of JLU ended with series finale type episodes, so while the creators may not have chosen to have not continued, they had no problem when they got news that they wouldn't be making anymore. JLU has 2 series finale episodes...did they need a third to appease the fans who can't let go? I don't know how many times I've had to say this but I love Bruce Timm's DC shows, they are like the holy grail for me. That being said when it ended I wasnt sad, I was happy for what so many people were able to do with these characters for 15 years.. I don't see why other people can't feel like that. I also cant see why this conversation has legs...Its been 2 years since it ended..Get over it, watch the 300+ episodes on DVD whenever you choose, complete with nice packaging, lots of extras and info, and of course their movies as well.

Back on topic..if I had to choose..I'd go with Marvel slightly. I dig Spider Man right now, its so awesome. The new X Men looks cool, but I have no opinion on Iron Man as there has yet to be no footage shown yet. Their DTVs have been mostly weak to meh, cept Doctor Strange which I thought was awesome, so I think so far DC has them beat there( Even though theyve only had 2 out ). But yea I prefer a 13 episode season of an awesome show over a 70 minute movie thats good, so that's really the only reason I gave Marvel the slight edge.

[Zentron]

JLU has ended, but it was not ended cleanly(not to mention the massive carrot left dangling in front of us), that's the only thing that bugs me!

Oh yah, to anwser the initial question, DC wins. Doesn't matter what else comes into play, Batman: Gotham Knight is the only thing on the horizon worth bothering with!

[W.C.Reaf]

JLU has ended, but it was not ended cleanly(not to mention the massive carrot left dangling in front of us), that's the only thing that bugs me!

Oh yah, to anwser the initial question, DC wins. Doesn't matter what else comes into play, Batman: Gotham Knight is the only thing on the horizon worth bothering with!

What no interest in the Spectacular Spider-Man or Wolverine and the X-Men?

Or DC's Batman: Brave and the Bold? :p

[Silverstar]

That's completely inaccurate.

The desicions to end JLU, TT and The Batman were all network decisions. Normally, when an animated series hits a certain amount of episodes (be it 52 or 65 or whatever) the network that originally ordered the series will decline to order any further seasons. Because at that point, the show has produced enough episodes to live on in syndication and to produce new episodes would be cost-prohibitive. An animated adventure series usually only makes money in the first place because of merchandise sales and re-broadcasting fees.

There have been a number of interviews with the creators of these series in which they state they never know if they'll get picked up for another season or not. In fact many go on to say they would have been ready and willing to make more shows if the network hadn't pulled the plug. In Bruce Timm's case in particular he has been quoted as saying the creative team was already considering ideas for a potential new season of JLU before they found out they weren't being renewed.

Not once have I ever read that he and the rest of his team "chose" to end the show before moving on to something else.

I can't think of a better response to that than this:


While thats true, the last 2 seasons of JLU ended with series finale type episodes, so while the creators may not have chosen to have not continued, they had no problem when they got news that they wouldn't be making anymore. JLU has 2 series finale episodes...did they need a third to appease the fans who can't let go? I don't know how many times I've had to say this but I love Bruce Timm's DC shows, they are like the holy grail for me. That being said when it ended I wasnt sad, I was happy for what so many people were able to do with these characters for 15 years.. I don't see why other people can't feel like that. I also cant see why this conversation has legs...Its been 2 years since it ended..Get over it, watch the 300+ episodes on DVD whenever you choose, complete with nice packaging, lots of extras and info, and of course their movies as well.

Thank you.

[ShadowDemon]

Since it's not an argument, I'd be happy to tell you why...

It's because when you have a Justice League project without any of the top tier DC heroes in it, 9 times out 10, you'll end up with something like this:
http://chud.com/nextraimages/JusticePoster.jpg

That's an image from the Canadian Justice League TV pilot. There was no Superman, not Batman, and no Wonder Woman, and it was gawd-awful. Which is why I'll take the Elite DC heroes over the ham 'n' eggers any day. If you want a quality project, you can't have a JL with just the bench warmers. It simply can't be done.

Mind you, I never said that DC (or Marvel either, for that matter) should never use their B or C Teams at all, I just have no desire to see a TV series featuring these "lesser" characters exclusively. A new series starring the Super 7 with the occasional guest spot by a more obscure, less celebrated hero would be just fine by me.

Was it "gawd aweful" because of the characters or was it the writers and actors and production values? You sound like you beleive was the former. Based on the photo, I'd have to wonder if it wasn't really the latter...

[Zentron]

What no interest in the Spectacular Spider-Man or Wolverine and the X-Men?

Or DC's Batman: Brave and the Bold? :pHmmmmmmm nope! They all look like crap!

[batsy2]

What no interest in the Spectacular Spider-Man or Wolverine and the X-Men?

Or DC's Batman: Brave and the Bold? :p

i am the new spider-man is waaaaaaaaayyyy better then the rest and the new x-men serie looks promising so does brave and bold

[Toddman]

I can't think of a better response to that than this:

while the creators may not have chosen to have not continued, they had no problem when they got news that they wouldn't be making anymore.

Thank you.


I never said those shows creators ever took issue w/a cancellation or that they "had a problem" w/the decision. That's the nature of the business they work in, and they know it comes w/the territory.

I felt it needed to be emphasized that the various statements made by you and others (implying the end of JLU,TT, et al came about from the show's creative teams) were simply not true.


Toddman

[Blackstar]

Was it "gawd aweful" because of the characters or was it the writers and actors and production values? You sound like you beleive was the former. Based on the photo, I'd have to wonder if it wasn't really the latter...

Personally, I think it was a combination of both. The DC characters who were depicted weren't depicted very well.

ShadowDemon, did you even read the 2nd part of my post?

[Toddman]

Personally, I think it was a combination of both.

Toddman, did you even read the 2nd part of my post?

I'm all for a good debate, but that's not my quote.

The person you're looking for is ShadowDemon.


Toddman

[Blackstar]

Oops! Sorry about that, man.:sweat:

Edited and fixed.

[W.C.Reaf]

Hmmmmmmm nope! They all look like crap!

How so?

[ShadowDemon]

Personally, I think it was a combination of both. The DC characters who were depicted weren't depicted very well.

ShadowDemon, did you even read the 2nd part of my post?


I did. I don't agree with your premise that it is impossible to make a good show about what your call "B and C team" characters. There are no uninteresting characters, just writers who can't or won't bother to MAKE them interesing.

That said, if the "Big 7" are all you care about, that's your perogative...but limiting yourself that way is like having unlimited access to a library and only reading books from one isle.

[TheVileOne]

If you love the B and C characters so much, you should watch Wolverine and The X-men since Domino looks like a featured character.

[Harlan_Phoenix]

Hmmmmmmm nope! They all look like crap!

Spectacular Spider-Man owns your soul.

[Blackstar]

I did. I don't agree with your premise that it is impossible to make a good show about what your call "B and C team" characters. There are no uninteresting characters, just writers who can't or won't bother to MAKE them interesing.

That said, if the "Big 7" are all you care about, that's your perogative...but limiting yourself that way is like having unlimited access to a library and only reading books from one isle.

I find it interesting how someone who likes the idea of obscure DC characters getting their own show(s) so very much is at the same time not open to the idea of a new X-Men series that isn't a continuation of Evo or a new DC series that isn't Timmverse continuity.

And I didn't say that the lesser DC heroes shouldn't be used at all, just that a DC series that focuses on the B and C team players exclusively wouldn't sell very well, because no one knows who any of those characters are. It's the big names that sell shows, movies and products, that's why producers tend to stick to them. If a network producer has a choice between buying a new TV series about Batman or a new series about Vibe, guess which one he's more likely to choose.

Having the lesser Joes and Janes occasionally turn in guest appearances and cameos in a new series about the Alpha dogs would be a better idea, at least to me.

[Antiyonder]

And I didn't say that the lesser DC heroes shouldn't be used at all, just that a DC series that focuses on the B and C team players exclusively wouldn't sell very well, because no one knows who any of those characters are. It's the big names that sell shows, movies and products, that's why producers tend to stick to them. If a network producer has a choice between buying a new TV series about Batman or a new series about Vibe, guess which one he's more likely to choose.

But if I'm not mistaken, there was a time when the Batman franchise wasn't performing well in the 60s, thus producing the Adam West show was pretty risky. And yet the risk paid off, restoring the character's popularity and being a major part of pop culture.

Thus I think DC should give some of their other properties the benefit of the doubt. Not necessarily Vibe or say B'wana Beast, but at least (rhyme unintentional) Green Arrow and Aquaman given their appearances on Smallville.

If anything, the lack of a movie shouldn't prevent an obscure character from getting a show. Provided that The Brave And The Bold should do well, maybe the official website could have a poll letting viewers choose which BATB guests should have their own cartoon. Kind of like how Marvel had a Human Torch tale with a phony Captain America which was to test for a possible revival of the character.

[Zentron]

How so?Heh, do you really have to ask?... for example, most of the male characters of W&X-Men look like EarthWorm Jim!


Spectacular Spider-Man owns your soul.*Yawn* Spectacular Spider-Man? Oh you mean that $5 cost per episode series, yes, very nice isn't it :shrug: ;)

No, none of the titles, with the exception of 'Batman: Gotham Knight', look anyway decent. I was already disappointed with New Frontier, now things are really looking the pits!

[Antiyonder]

Heh, do you really have to ask?... for example, most of the male characters of W&X-Men look like EarthWorm Jim!

*Yawn* Spectacular Spider-Man? Oh you mean that $5 cost per episode series, yes, very nice isn't it :shrug: ;)

It animates well and has top notch writing. And so far every episode story has maintained quality. If the designs bother you so much, then provide Marvel and Sony with a donation of $1,000,000.

[Harlan_Phoenix]

*Yawn* Spectacular Spider-Man? Oh you mean that $5 cost per episode series, yes, very nice isn't it :shrug: ;)

...What?

[GregX]

...What?

He's confused. He's talking about the 1994 Spider-Man cartoon. With the slow, mediocre animation, that managed to create 65 episodes out of 90% of stock footage.

[Zentron]

It animates well and has top notch writing. And so far every episode story has maintained quality. If the designs bother you so much, then provide Marvel and Sony with a donation of $1,000,000.Or I could just go in and do the animation designs myself.


He's confused. He's talking about the 1994 Spider-Man cartoon. With the slow, mediocre animation, that managed to create 65 episodes out of 90% of stock footage.That sucked too, it was like watching a 'Filmation' production, this one is just.... dull :yawn: Watching paint dry is more fun, though I do laugh everytime I hear the intro tune, but not in a good way!

[GregX]

Or I could just go in and do the animation designs myself.

You know what? I know where the studio is. I go down there every now and then. Come out here, I'll take you there, and you can show them how it's really done.

Ready to put your money where your mouth is?

[TheVileOne]

If you like B and C characters so much I present to you Legion of Super Heroes and Krypto The Super Dog. And the direct to video Teen Titans animated movie.

[Antiyonder]

If you like B and C characters so much I present to you Legion of Super Heroes and Krypto The Super Dog. And the direct to video Teen Titans animated movie.

And yet the only reason DC gave them a shot was their ties to Superman and Robin. I still think my post above proves that taking a chance with a character can lead to success.


Or I could just go in and do the animation designs myself.

Ok, but have you even watched some of the episodes? The writing more than justifies the show's presence. Besides, haven't you heard the saying "Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder"?

[Zentron]

You know what? I know where the studio is. I go down there every now and then. Come out here, I'll take you there, and you can show them how it's really done.

Ready to put your money where your mouth is?Heh, now there's a sentence that resonates, if I could afford to go, I would.... but anywayz, I have to finish my own productions first, animated movies and OVAs don't get made by themselves :D


Ok, but have you even watched some of the episodes? The writing more than justifies the show's presence. Besides, haven't you heard the saying "Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder"?Of course I have... though only episodes 1, 2, 4 and 7, I haven't caught the others just yet, of course, the rest to come soon, which I will try to watch... I just haven't felt entertained so far!

[TheVileOne]

And yet the only reason DC gave them a shot was their ties to Superman and Robin. I still think my post above proves that taking a chance with a character can lead to success.

So what? They still showcase and build up obscure and lower tier characters. Batman and Superman were never once in Teen Titans.

Brave and The Bold is going to most likely showcase characters that have never been animated before like the new Blue Beetle.

If the Flash or GL movies ever get off the ground they probably would get animated supplements.

[Blackstar]

So what? They still showcase and build up obscure and lower tier characters. Batman and Superman were never once in Teen Titans.

No, but Robin, Batman's well known and established sidekick, was on Teen Titans.


Brave and The Bold is going to most likely showcase characters that have never been animated before like the new Blue Beetle....and Batman, an established DC hero, will be at the front. Just sayin'.

That's how the biz works; Take an big name and introduce the lesser known characters through said character.

[TheVileOne]

I don't think there's anything wrong with that considering those characters could probably never sell a show on their own.

[Silverstar]

There are no uninteresting characters, just writers who can't or won't bother to MAKE them interesting.

You wanna hear something scary?

I agree with you. :eek: Completely and utterly. In fact, I've made that very statement myself in defense of other characters in other threads.

BUT....here's the thing: unfortunately, that isn't how corporate types think. The suits don't give 2 squats about who's interesting or even who has the potential to be interesting; they only care about which characters are going to make them the most moolah and put the most butts in seats. So before you presume to criticize Blackstar or anyone else for saying that a 'Super 7' series would be more feasible than a show starring DC's 'lesser lights', keep in mind that it has nothing to do with fairness or not recognizing a character's potential, it's simple numbers. The cold hard fact is that a Superman series, a Batman series or a Justice League show focusing on the 'Big 7' is going to be in more demand and make networks and advertisers a boat load more money and score far greater ratings than Gypsy: The Animated Series or The Adventures of Stargirl and S.T.R.I.P.E.. Heck, my all-time favorite superhero is the Martian Manhunter; I can't get enough of the guy, but I know that a Martian Manhunter series wouldn't fly, not because he's a bad character, but because he's simply not a big enough draw. Like TheVileOne said above, the B and C-teamers need to co-star alongside the Big Dogs, since they most likely wouldn't be able to sell a show on their own.

Nobody's saying that that's fair or how it should be, but that's just the nature of the biz. Big names sell, and money talks.

[W.C.Reaf]

Of course I have... though only episodes 1, 2, 4 and 7, I haven't caught the others just yet, of course, the rest to come soon, which I will try to watch... I just haven't felt entertained so far!

So you're bored with it? What bores you? The brutal action? The well written plots and three dimensional characters? Maybe the multi-layered story arcs?

Or are you just someone who doesn't like Spider-Man? I know some people who don't like key aspects of the character and they enjoyed the show well enough.

I'm just curious as to how you can be bored with something written on so many levels that anyone can get into.

[Zentron]

So you're bored with it? What bores you? The brutal action? The well written plots and three dimensional characters? Maybe the multi-layered story arcs?

Or are you just someone who doesn't like Spider-Man? I know some people who don't like key aspects of the character and they enjoyed the show well enough.

I'm just curious as to how you can be bored with something written on so many levels that anyone can get into.Actually, I like Spider-Man, but only seen one animated show that I liked. That said, just watched episode 3 of SSM, I liked the water balloon incident.... um, yah, that's all I liked. :sad:

I find the stories(that I've seen so far, obviously) lackluster, characters 1 dimensional and the brutal action.... well, if that's brutal, then I'm the re-incarnation of Elvis!(which I ain't, so... not brutal then)

[Harlan_Phoenix]

Heh, now there's a sentence that resonates, if I could afford to go, I would.... but anywayz, I have to finish my own productions first, animated movies and OVAs don't get made by themselves

I think maybe, just maybe, you missed his point.

[Zentron]

I think maybe, just maybe, you missed his point.Possibly, but I have thought on several occasions to inquire about animation positions at Warner Animation.... just never really bothered to send the email. But if I did, I'd have stopped the mistakes like I saw in the Teen Titans series :D

[Wonderwall]

Actually, I like Spider-Man, but only seen one animated show that I liked. That said, just watched episode 3 of SSM, I liked the water balloon incident.... um, yah, that's all I liked. :sad:

I find the stories(that I've seen so far, obviously) lackluster, characters 1 dimensional and the brutal action.... well, if that's brutal, then I'm the re-incarnation of Elvis!(which I ain't, so... not brutal then)

I must be watching a different show. I've found the story engaging, characters that are three dimensional, and nice action, maybe not brutal, though the Lizard fight was pretty intense.

[Harlan_Phoenix]

Possibly, but I have thought on several occasions to inquire about animation positions at Warner Animation.... just never really bothered to send the email. But if I did, I'd have stopped the mistakes like I saw in the Teen Titans series :D

...And yet Teen Titans is one of your favorite cartoons?

I dunno...you sound sort of pompous to me.

[Wonderwall]

Possibly, but I have thought on several occasions to inquire about animation positions at Warner Animation.... just never really bothered to send the email. But if I did, I'd have stopped the mistakes like I saw in the Teen Titans series :D

Because they just let unproven nobodies to have producer jobs right? Especially at WB...yea, and pigs fly too.

[W.C.Reaf]

Actually, I like Spider-Man, but only seen one animated show that I liked. That said, just watched episode 3 of SSM, I liked the water balloon incident.... um, yah, that's all I liked. :sad:

I find the stories(that I've seen so far, obviously) lackluster, characters 1 dimensional and the brutal action.... well, if that's brutal, then I'm the re-incarnation of Elvis!(which I ain't, so... not brutal then)

What was the one animated show?

[Zentron]

...And yet Teen Titans is one of your favorite cartoons?

I dunno...you sound sort of pompous to me.Yes, it is one of my favorite shows, but even so, there was a lot of errors that I noticed(some very simple and should have been spotted easily) and things that could have been done better. Just because I like something, doesn't mean I can't be critical of it!


What was the one animated show?The one that you either loved or hated, Spider-Man MTV 2004!

[W.C.Reaf]

The one that you either loved or hated, Spider-Man MTV 2004!

So how come that's the only one you like? What sets it aside from the stuff that bores you?

[Zentron]

So how come that's the only one you like? What sets it aside from the stuff that bores you?You know what... I don't really know why. It ain't because of the cel-shade 3D animation, even though I do like that sort of thing, I just watched it, and liked it!!

Yeah I know I'm not explaining anything really, but I just don't know why I like it the most.

Anywayz, back to the topic at hand. I couldn't care less about the rest, Batman: Gotham Knight is the only one I have the eyes for!

[Antiyonder]

Nobody's saying that that's fair or how it should be, but that's just the nature of the biz. Big names sell, and money talks.

Agree to a degree, but with Iron Man being a hit in the theaters, it should be proof to WB and DC that the non iconic heroes could hold a profitable film.

Though to play it safe, I suppose they could start with The Flash since he's had more mainstream appearances than GL, Hawkman, Martian Manhunter.

[Wolf Boy2]

Because they just let unproven nobodies to have producer jobs right? Especially at WB...yea, and pigs fly too.
Well, you just need a good fake name. Like me, I got a producer's job under the name Bruce Timm. I made a lot of good TV shows with that fake ID.

Even now, some people think Bruce Timm was actually a real person. LOL! I guess my disguise was TOO good.

I also get good mileage out of the name Greg Weisman ... not to mention my singing/acting career under the name Miley Cyrus (blond wigs go a long way, plus the sets are built extra huge so the audience can't tell I'm over 6 feet tall). I use a body double for live concerts as Hannah.

I'm the hardest working guy in Hollywood.:D