This Fall, A Mature Anime Convention

[GWOtaku]

No, not THAT kind of mature. I mean the Providence Anime Conference (http://providenceanime.com/), sponsored by the New England Anime Society, apparently also the force behind Anime Boston. The conference is meant for ages 21 and up and promises an emphasis on academic and professional events. Instead of an opening ceremony there is a "welcome reception," and a "keynote address." There is a "non-competitive" Cosplay fashion show and skit exhibition, and there is a charity auction. At some events, alcohol will be served. For good measure, a formal ball is also planned.

Whoa.

Contrary to my kneejerk impression, this doesn't come off as an elitist attempt. Programming is wide open but they seem seriously interested in providing a fun time while also literally aiming at the working adult crowd. To boot, there's potential for unique opportunities for older fans. Take this ANN tidbit for instance:



Vendors looking to participate in the convention will be instructed to bring items that are not normally available at stores or online, while entries for PAC's cosplay (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/lexicon.php?id=15) skit exhibition will be pre-screened to ensure high quality.They have ADV and Funi reps coming, and Harmony Gold will have a presence. I suspect a few of the bigshots behind this thing are serious Robotech/Macross fans.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed and I hope this conference is a success for them. It'd be really great if this became an outlet for academic thought regarding anime and Japanese culture as well. Many fans are indeed growing up, and its cool to see the fandom responding by trying to expand in new and interesting ways.

[Alucard]

Anime World Order will be happy, I'm sure.

[Dark Fact]

A formal convention for people 21 and older? Is this gonna be a suit-and-tie convention? :eek:

They have ADV and Funi reps coming, and Harmony Gold will have a presence. I suspect a few of the bigshots behind this thing are serious Robotech/Macross fans.
I hope Harmony Gold is going to be there to make an announcement that will be worth squat instead of doing the whole "Robotech helped anime take off in America" speech for the umpteenth time. :yawn:

[GWOtaku]

A formal convention for people 21 and older? Is this gonna be a suit-and-tie convention? :eek:

No, it looks like only that ball event is formal. I have to say though, it'd be very amusing to see dressed up guys dancing with ladies dressed in Cosplay outfits, or the other way around for that matter.



I hope Harmony Gold is going to be there to make an announcement that will be worth squat instead of doing the whole "Robotech helped anime take off in America" speech for the umpteenth time. :yawn:I'm sure they'll make a generic speech, but then again a sequel to Shadow Chronicles is in development so perhaps they'll have something to say about that too.

[Dark Fact]

I'm sure they'll make a generic speech, but then again a sequel to Shadow Chronicles is in development so perhaps they'll have something to say about that too.
Personally, I would rather have Harmony Gold come flat out and say that the legal situation surrounding Macross in America is over and that we'll finally get to see legal distribution of 7, Zero, and Frontier. This rights crap has gone on for far too long.

[EscaflownePilot]

Wow, that actually sounds really cool! I've never been to an anime convention before, but this has certainly piqued my interest. Certainly a way of bringing more legitimacy to the crowd that believe Japanese animation (and even animation in general) is more than just "zomg boobs explosions" with the academic focus.

[Dark Fact]

No, it looks like only that ball event is formal. I have to say though, it'd be very amusing to see dressed up guys dancing with ladies dressed in Cosplay outfits, or the other way around for that matter.
Okay, because I would be dead scared if this anime convention required women to dress up like Queen Elizabeth and men to dress up like Mr. Peanut...or Rich Uncle Pennybags just to attend. :sweat:

[Conekiller]

I'm certain a fair amount of "ZOMG KAWAII NEKO-SAMA YAOIYAOI LUVZ" types will find their way in and ruin the intended mood. Sounds like a decent try tho.

[HellCat]

I'm certain a fair amount of "ZOMG KAWAII NEKO-SAMA YAOIYAOI LUVZ" types will find their way in and ruin the intended mood. Sounds like a decent try tho.

Damn the carpet baggers *sips rum* We can't let them ruin our mature discussion about Lucky Star.

[Dark Fact]

Damn the carpet baggers *sips rum* We can't let them ruin our mature discussion about Lucky Star.
"I say old chap, but why is that fine lass expressing her bloomers so shamelessly?" http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/xerx/MODhappyjaz.gif

[Karl Olson]

well, I can see this playing in a lot of different ways, or rather, there are a lot of different elements in play:

-Anime fandom became young fast. At 24, I'm probably on the older side of the anime boom fandom, and the fact is, I don't even run into a lot of people my age at cons. It's often tweens and teens, and I really don't relate to that age-group for the most part, so it sort of gets in the way of convention as otaku socialization. Even with common likes and dislikes when it comes to anime, sometimes the generation gap between me and someone whose maybe a year over half my age supersedes that. Magnify that by maybe 4 times for some of the true old schoolers who have been watching anime since Astroboy ran in broadcast, and I'd imagine there have to be some old-timers looking for a way to make a grown-ups only treehouse. A convention like this addresses that issue by ensuring that everyone in attendance was atleast 13 when Toonami hit it stride in 2000. By having everybody over age X, it should really help the socialization factor - your odds of finding some into Legend of Galactic Heroes goes up significantly, or atleast some one who remembers when Sailor Moon ran in syndication.

-Anime cons, do to the first factor, cleaned up significantly in the past half decade. They went from relatively small events in hotels with dealer's rooms that proudly had some blatant skeeze (from adult anime video rooms to flyers for hotel room drinking parties,) to events in huge convention centers with television ads and support from the local city government and so on. Now, I'll qualify this by saying there is still plenty of adult content at anime cons (hallo thar 4chan otakon panels and doujinshi booths,) but it's been reduced significantly (and even stuff like the 4chan stuff appeals more teens to than adults.) Meanwhile I don't doubt that calls for "bringing merch not normally brought to anime cons or listed online" is as much a call for more risque merch as it is for older niche merch. Kind of a lame side aspect to this actually, but it'd be naive to say it's probably not in play.

-Anime, if it's not going to be a cult-medium, but rather a general medium, should almost by default end up with a certain degree of fracturing in the audience. People who grew up on older titles probably would like the chance to discuss those shows, and if they've gotten over/never the obnoxious/uninformed phase of otakudom, they want to do so in more intelligent context than "who is teh hottest: Rei or Asuka, lulZ!" I mean, even if they love the latest content, they may want to find a group of people on the same intellectual level to talk about said shows with. It's hard to find much more than "MOE~~~~~~~~" and "HAWT BISHIE" at a con sometimes, but making sure the average attendee has probably finished high school at a minimum, they'll up the intellectual discourse by default, in theory. Really, it's an extension of the age gap thing, except I have had some absolutely compelling discussions with younger otaku - it just doesn't happen that often, or atleast not often enough to justify not atleast trying to see if you can up that ratio with some sorting and planning.

-Tycho from Penny Arcade said the next reason best:
"I'm fairly certain that a thirty-two year old man watching teens dressed as supernatural maids caper and gambol is not legal. It's not something I want to explain to a judge." - Jerry "Tycho" Holkins
For all the 21+ otaku who aren't raging lolicons/shotacons, a con full of adults must be welcome. Perhaps more so still to the 30 and 40 somethings who may have kids.

-Oh, and that brings me to my last reason: a con where the kids stay at home with a babysitter or relatives. I'd bet there are some couples with kids who love anime, love that their kids love anime, but who wouldn't mind a con where they can be young otaku in love again. Almost something schmaltzy or saccarin about that thought, but it's possibility I'd guess.

However, allow me to stress that I'm just guessing. If anyone else has good reasons behind why a con like this exists, or why my reasons or way totally off base, I'd love to hear them, because really, the whole concept is one of the freshest ideas I've heard in regards to convention organization since I've started going to them, so, the more debate the better.

[Weatherman]

Karl, dealer rooms are still full of porn and there are still tons of flyers out for drinking parties. That part will never change.

I'm going to keep an eye on this. Depending on what type of programing they come up it could be every interesting. At the very least I won't have to worry about that gal who's great tracts of land that are spilling out her top is way too young for me.

[Karl Olson]

Karl, dealer rooms are still full of porn and there are still tons of flyers out for drinking parties. That part will never change.

Actually, I've seen both largely disappear on the west coast, even in the hotel cons. The porn, maybe not as much, but it's gone from filthy figurines, sex-toys, bondage ropes and screaming proclamations of "red hot yaoi" to *ONLY* dvds, manga and doujinshi, all of it being very actively carded for if not almost sectioned off from the rest of a given dealer's booth, none of it really on public display, and nobodies screaming about it either, and the amount even of that is decreasing - most anime retailers I've seen on the west coast won't touch it at all - they don't carry anything 18+ outside of maybe a few yaoi manga titles, if that. I mean, I don't see people dress up as tentacles any more even. It's fading out of the culture (which is almost most definitely positive, but still it's a change that favors the young.)

To put it another way though - yaoi/yuri/etc paddles were banned at every anime con I hit in the past year, keeping in mind most cons allowed peacebonded swords and knifes, IE: ACTUAL WEAPONS. It's partially if not mostly because people were idiots with them (slap teh hawt bishie lulz,) but an conscious move towards being family-friendly is also part of it too. CPM's "This ain't Disney, homeboy!" mantra that resulted Urotsukidoji running in two different theaters in NYC back in the early 90s is gone: it's been superseded by "world peace through shared popular culture." All things considered, it's better for getting the medium accepted by the average person, but it also means that average people are involved now who probably have no interest what anime in the US was for a long time: violent and/or sci-fi/fantasy and/or porn.

tl;dr: anime isn't being billed as smut and violence any more which is good, but also means that those who dug that are finding themselves more and more isolated at cons. They are by no means the majority or even a significant minority any more. I see more kids and parents than creepy neckbeards with stacks of Kitty Media titles.


I'm going to keep an eye on this. Depending on what type of programing they come up it could be every interesting. At the very least I won't have to worry about that gal who's great tracts of land that are spilling out her top is way too young for me.

Thus totally confirming the Tycho point. :anime:

[GWOtaku]

-Anime, if it's not going to be a cult-medium, but rather a general medium, should almost by default end up with a certain degree of fracturing in the audience. People who grew up on older titles probably would like the chance to discuss those shows, and if they've gotten over/never the obnoxious/uninformed phase of otakudom, they want to do so in more intelligent context than "who is teh hottest: Rei or Asuka, lulZ!" I mean, even if they love the latest content, they may want to find a group of people on the same intellectual level to talk about said shows with. It's hard to find much more than "MOE~~~~~~~~" and "HAWT BISHIE" at a con sometimes, but making sure the average attendee has probably finished high school at a minimum, they'll up the intellectual discourse by default, in theory. Really, it's an extension of the age gap thing, except I have had some absolutely compelling discussions with younger otaku - it just doesn't happen that often, or at least not often enough to justify not at least trying to see if you can up that ratio with some sorting and planning.

That's definitely the main appeal for me. I'm about your age and I revel in that sort of smart discussion, and while I have a fun time going to anime cons I don't have any delusions about my being a part of the demographic that's mostly attracted to them. I feel this gap more distinctly now than I did in 2002 when I ended up at my first small con as a freshman, not because things changed (to me anyway) but because I did. Rather than doing other things perhaps I should be checking out more topical panels in search of thought-provoking discussion, though even then it seems more of them aim low or are meant as general overview. Now my experience is limited so maybe this thought is unfair, but take for instance this one event at Otakon 2006. They had a long Gundam panel that had interesting points, but so much of it was a "First they made this, and then they made this" narrative preceded by obligatory talk about how Gundam was groundbreaking in 1979. Its not that it was bad, its that much more could've been said in the 90 minutes to two hours that they had even if the only goal was to make sure everyone in the room understood what every part of the franchise was. I'd like nothing better than a con event that challenges me.

I'll admit, the Cosplay comfort aspect is an advantage. It'd indeed be nice to know that the girl in the Cosplay dress is not younger than 18. Personally I don't find it very important; I can be detached and usually able to say and think "nice costume" when its not an obvious fanservice getup, but still. I'll bet the gap here does get progressively worse with age, nobody wants to feel like a dirty old man or something.

I find the the idea of this fascinating because it'll be a good measure of just how many fans are both old enough for this and interested enough for this kind of environment--and willing to fly to Providence for it, of course. I like to think there are enough, if only to prove that you and I aren't a lonely minority and that the fandom is capable of evolving and adapting. And yeah, I think its absolutely true that the odds of finding fans that are both interested in and knowledgeable about old school shows are much greater at an event like this. I doubt I could start up a conservation about 80's anime or space operas randomly at a con very easily, even at a larger one like Otakon.

If nothing else, I'm glad this exists if only for future fans. Even if turnout is low compared to a normal Con for now, the teen fans of today will in college and growing up before very long. If an event like this can help sustain interest in the medium for them, then by all means more power to it.

[HellCat]

I've personally never been to a con. I'm quite a shy person and fun as they look I've never really understood just how much of the carefree fun of fans you see online translates to the physical world.

[GWOtaku]

I've personally never been to a con. I'm quite a shy person and fun as they look I've never really understood just how much of the carefree fun of fans you see online translates to the physical world.

Take it from me, it translates in spades. Just about any con I've ever been to had some spontaneous hilarity going on somewhere at some point, and the general atmosphere is rather positive and fun-loving.

[Juu-kuchi]

If that's the case, then only image-sensitive people need not apply.

I know it's not their intention, but yeah I do have some impression of people in cosplay wearing tuxedos over their costumes, sipping Dom Perignon and opining about how Anizawa Meito is a representation of the kind of sophistry that Socrates fought against during his lifetime.

[GWOtaku]

Eh, its not an image thing and I see myself going to cons for a long time, I just think its good there's something that's aiming a bit higher too. Hopefully they'll manage to make it interesting and not pretentious; I guess the proof will be in the programming and what sort of people show up at this thing.

[kaine23]

I know some of the people running this since they're friends of mine in my area.

[Juu-kuchi]

Eh, its not an image thing and I see myself going to cons for a long time, I just think its good there's something that's aiming a bit higher too. Hopefully they'll manage to make it interesting and not pretentious; I guess the proof will be in the programming and what sort of people show up at this thing. What I meant was that in terms of uncertainty towards how fun can be held in certain regards in conventions, was that image-sensitive people would be those who are rather wary of being caught doing within those cons and all that.

I'm not really sure where I'm getting at anymore.

[GWOtaku]

What I meant was that in terms of uncertainty towards how fun can be held in certain regards in conventions, was that image-sensitive people would be those who are rather wary of being caught doing within those cons and all that.

I'm not really sure where I'm getting at anymore.

Aaaah. Well in terms of really cutting loose I suppose I'm image conscious too, although I get a kick out just out of witnessing it myself and being surrounded by that kind of atmosphere. I'm not inspired to cosplay and I sure wouldn't be caught dead doing more than a few cosplay skits for instance, but they're sure easy to laugh at.

[The Weed Of Cri]

At the risk of sounding like a snob, I was part of the generation that helped create anime fandom in America, and I have to admit I don't attend a lot of anime conventions because they make me feel like a geezer (and I get enough reminders of that every time I look in my bathroom mirror). I don't begrudge in the least the way in which the younger fans celebrate their fandom; I did the same stuff 20 years ago. But it's not my kind of preferred environment anymore. All the things I liked about anime when I first got into it are still there (you'll never hear me take the "they don't make 'em like they used to" position), but my appreciation of anime has matured beyond just wanting to experience what's currently "cool" and exciting. It's a lot deeper and broader for me, and the opportunity to have that kind of discussion in a community of people who, like me, have been around the block a few times, appeals to me.

I also find it ironic that anime fandom, which began as an offshoot of science fiction fandom, is now facing a situation pretty much the opposite of what SF fandom now faces. For many years now, the SF community has been concerned about the "graying" of its fan base: long-time fans grow older, and there are not enough younger fans joining in to balance them out, so the average age of the SF fan gets older and older. In anime fandom, the older fans are being squeezed out by a fandom that caters to the tastes of a community of fans that seems to grow younger and younger every year.

[Weatherman]

Actually, I've seen both largely disappear on the west coast, even in the hotel cons. The porn, maybe not as much, but it's gone from filthy figurines, sex-toys, bondage ropes and screaming proclamations of "red hot yaoi" to *ONLY* dvds, manga and doujinshi, all of it being very actively carded for if not almost sectioned off from the rest of a given dealer's booth, none of it really on public display, and nobodies screaming about it either, and the amount even of that is decreasing - most anime retailers I've seen on the west coast won't touch it at all - they don't carry anything 18+ outside of maybe a few yaoi manga titles, if that. I mean, I don't see people dress up as tentacles any more even. It's fading out of the culture (which is almost most definitely positive, but still it's a change that favors the young.)

To put it another way though - yaoi/yuri/etc paddles were banned at every anime con I hit in the past year, keeping in mind most cons allowed peacebonded swords and knifes, IE: ACTUAL WEAPONS. It's partially if not mostly because people were idiots with them (slap teh hawt bishie lulz,) but an conscious move towards being family-friendly is also part of it too. CPM's "This ain't Disney, homeboy!" mantra that resulted Urotsukidoji running in two different theaters in NYC back in the early 90s is gone: it's been superseded by "world peace through shared popular culture." All things considered, it's better for getting the medium accepted by the average person, but it also means that average people are involved now who probably have no interest what anime in the US was for a long time: violent and/or sci-fi/fantasy and/or porn.

anime isn't being billed as smut and violence any more which is good, but also means that those who dug that are finding themselves more and more isolated at cons. They are by no means the majority or even a significant minority any more. I see more kids and parents than creepy neckbeards with stacks of Kitty Media titles.

Apparently the east coast is a bit different then. AFAIK the Yaoi/Yuri paddle guy is still in business and porn is a prominent as ever, if under the book store cover things. Heck, Funimation had the slight misfortune at Anime Boston of having their booth right next to a major porn doujin dealer. Late night there's also still the hentai joke-dubbing event and other pron-related stuff. That one drew a good crowd at AB this year. At least 1,000.

[Karl Olson]

Apparently the east coast is a bit different then. AFAIK the Yaoi/Yuri paddle guy is still in business and porn is a prominent as ever, if under the book store cover things. Heck, Funimation had the slight misfortune at Anime Boston of having their booth right next to a major porn doujin dealer. Late night there's also still the hentai joke-dubbing event and other pron-related stuff. That one drew a good crowd at AB this year. At least 1,000.

Well, the company that was flogging the paddles (pardon the puns) still hits west coast cons, but they don't bother to bring the paddles with 'em. They just have their doujin/h-games with them, off in a side corner away from the major companies/mainstream dealers in the dealer's room. The events are there, but not nearly to the extent they used to be, and it's all really late night (midnight to 6am? yeah, you're lucky if 50 people out of 5000 or 15000 show out west.)

Actually, now is another good time to bring up a Tycho story, this time one he personally related to me when I swung by the booth this year and that he related because I mentioned that I felt sort of outside the culture this year. Basically, he recalled sitting in on the Anime Dating Game panel the first year they went to SakuraCon, and being surprised as much by the fact people just accepted and laughed at the fact that there was a man dressed as a tentacle on the stage accosting contestants, as he was by the initial fact that their was a tentacle man on the stage. It's not just the content itself, but the reaction to it. Both I think have changed a bit.

The funny thing is, I don't really miss that crap. I'm very aware though of it's absence though, so to other people who dug that, it's absence maybe more acutely felt.

[Harlan_Phoenix]

I'm not even in the intended age group of this thing (getting there, but still got a bit to go), but to me this sounds awesome. Normal cons are nice, but there is a giant sense of youth and immaturity that could sort of make one jaded about them.

I hope this succeeds.

[Conekiller]

I know it's not their intention, but yeah I do have some impression of people in cosplay wearing tuxedos over their costumes, sipping Dom Perignon and...

An anime con I weent to in Orlando last August had a "formal copsplay" dinner/dance thing. I have a pic on my cell phone of a dude dressed to the nines, but wearing a Predator mask. It was awesome!

[Justy]

An anime con I weent to in Orlando last August had a "formal cosplay" dinner/dance thing.
Seems that in the last few years, some sort of formal event is a part of a lot of cons. I always felt that they were mostly created to have an "adult" event for the pre and early teens to be a part of which they mostly haven't had an opportunity to yet in their lives. Nothing against these events--some have been stellar and some not so much.

At least two major things have contributed to the fall of the age demographic of anime fandom to its current range (11-17 or so): the promotion and massive popularity of shows aimed at a preteen and very early teen audience (Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and others with the same "battle" type formula) and the popularity of shojo manga with (mostly) girls in the age range. Because of this populariity, people obviously discovered the fan community and started attending cons in order to interact with people who have similar interests. Hence the explosion of cons in the last few years.

How "mature" the programming of a con is is almost entirely dependent on the organizers who develop and approve the events, guests, dealers, programming, and panels that are a part of it. If little or no programming exists that involve yaoi (or other sexually-explicit discussion or images) or fosters some serious conversation about topics higher on the intellectual level than your standard "this show is cool" panels, older fans will probably find their options limited at a con. The venue can also be an issue--for example, METROCON can not (officially) have any programming over PG-13 or have any dealers display or sell adult material since it is held in a city-owned facility (Tampa Convention Center).

Ultimately, it's up to those that program a con to ensure that there are enough varied events and panels to attract attendees in all age groups, especially if they want to survive in the next few years, given the state of the anime industy and the economy.

I'm very interested to see what kind programming will be offered at this con.

[Weatherman]

The venue can also be an issue--for example, METROCON can not (officially) have any programming over PG-13 or have any dealers display or sell adult material since it is held in a city-owned facility (Tampa Convention Center).


Hunh? Otakon is in a publicy owned facility and they can sell anything. So is Anime Boston. Tampa apparently has some odd rules.

[Justy]

Hunh? Otakon is in a publicy owned facility and they can sell anything. So is Anime Boston. Tampa apparently has some odd rules.
As I have not been privy to the actual negotiations with the venue, I can only report the results. After 2004, when we needed to find another place, no hotel big enough in the Tampa Bay area gave us a reasonable quote for the use of their facility. We found it necessary to use the Convention Center, despite the restrictions (programming, no 24 hr programming, no selling outside food (incl. Pocky and Ramune), etc.).

It's possible that, if we could attract Otakon or Anime Boston numbers (10,000+), the Convention Center might rethink their policies. It may, in fact, happen if we can continue to attract increasing numbers with little or no damage or negative incidents.

[Weatherman]

As I have not been privy to the actual negotiations with the venue, I can only report the results. After 2004, when we needed to find another place, no hotel big enough in the Tampa Bay area gave us a reasonable quote for the use of their facility. We found it necessary to use the Convention Center, despite the restrictions (programming, no 24 hr programming, no selling outside food (incl. Pocky and Ramune), etc.).

It's possible that, if we could attract Otakon or Anime Boston numbers (10,000+), the Convention Center might rethink their policies. It may, in fact, happen if we can continue to attract increasing numbers with little or no damage or negative incidents.


The food stuff is the same at every Con in a public space due to the contract's they have signed with the copanies who run their food. Hmm, your space isn't all that much smaller than Otakon's space. The BCC has about 1.2 million sqft, but a lot of that is backstage space and some big hallways areas. I think you guys could swing getting a wavier for adult stuff. How are yo uset up? Everyone up here is set us as a not-for-profit comapny, so they can do things differently.

Back on topic, this could be a cool convention. I'm kinda getting tired of the formal ball stuff though. Maybe that's just me though since they seem to be gaining quite a bit of popularity. Having a date would probably get me closer to wanting to go to one of those though.:shrug:

[Justy]

I think you guys could swing getting a wavier for adult stuff. How are you set up? Everyone up here is set us as a not-for-profit comapny, so they can do things differently.
Actually, the absence of any adult material really doesn't hurt us. There hasn't been a real call for it (other than yaoi panels, which we've kind of curtailed due to some abuse and overenthusiasm by those that have run them in the past. Anyway, other cons in the area have that stuff covered. We did have an issue once with an industry distributor (who shall remain nameless) who, despite agreeing to our policies, brought and were selling adult material until we stopped them. I doubt they will ever be a vendor at METROCON again. In any case, we have more complaints about the Pocky and Ramune than the adult material.

FYI, we're set up as an LLC. I can't really get into the reasoning about this as I am not the one handling the finances. Suffice it to say that, given our situation, the con chair/CEO made that decision.

[Weatherman]

Actually, the absence of any adult material really doesn't hurt us. There hasn't been a real call for it (other than yaoi panels, which we've kind of curtailed due to some abuse and overenthusiasm by those that have run them in the past. Anyway, other cons in the area have that stuff covered. We did have an issue once with an industry distributor (who shall remain nameless) who, despite agreeing to our policies, brought and were selling adult material until we stopped them. I doubt they will ever be a vendor at METROCON again. In any case, we have more complaints about the Pocky and Ramune than the adult material.

FYI, we're set up as an LLC. I can't really get into the reasoning about this as I am not the one handling the finances. Suffice it to say that, given our situation, the con chair/CEO made that decision.


I think I know who you're talkin about. That's a shame as they're normally pretty good people. I guess since you guys are an extension of an already existing company you had to go that route?

[Ed Liu]

An observation I made during New York Anime Festival is that there are at least 3 waves of "anime fandom" in America: the first wave that grew up on Astro Boy, Speed Racer, and Gigantor; the second wave that grew up with Battle of the Planets, Voltron, and Star Blazers; and the third wave that grew up with Pokemon and Naruto. I could easily see that third wave being divided into a Pokemon wave and a Naruto wave, too.

These waves of anime fandom have very few common interests. I think it was a mistake to make Peter Fernandez and Corinne Orr guests of honor at NYAF, not because they haven't contributed tremendously to anime as an industry in the US but because the Naruto generation doesn't know or care who they are. I don't think many people my age are going to get as rabidly into Naruto, either, unless it's to humor their kids.

Most anime conventions aim for those latter waves, largely because that's where the growth is in the industry. This con seems targeted at the earlier ones. I don't see anything wrong with that, especially since it's an opportunity for a lot of companies to really plug their back catalog and reconnect with the older anime fan who stopped paying attention to it when they left high school, but can still sing the theme songs to Star Blazers or Speed Racer. If anything, I think a convention like this is less of a slap at younger anime fans and more of a recognition that these separate audiences exist and don't really have much in common.

For the record, I'm in that second wave and my brother-in-law is in the first, although neither of us is really what I'd call a hardcore anime fan. I'm also more than 10 years older than Karl, and felt positively decrepit at NYAF.

"Through all the fire and the smoke, we will never give up hope! If we can win, the Earth will survive! The Earth will survive through OUR! STAR! BLAAAA-ZERRRSSSS!!!" :)

-- Ed

[Alucard]

An observation I made during New York Anime Festival is that there are at least 3 waves of "anime fandom" in America: the first wave that grew up on Astro Boy, Speed Racer, and Gigantor; the second wave that grew up with Battle of the Planets, Voltron, and Star Blazers; and the third wave that grew up with Pokemon and Naruto. I could easily see that third wave being divided into a Pokemon wave and a Naruto wave, too.
-- Ed

Don't forget about the Robotech wave. I remember hearing about starblazers fans complaining about those damn Robotech Kids.

Though I'd like to point out I'm only 14 and I watch Legend Of The Galactic Heroes, Zeta Gundam, Votoms and the like. I'd much rather go to a convention with panels which catered to those sorts of shows, instead of being stuck with the Naruto voice actors panel:shrug:

Oh well, hopefully this type of con will become more popular. Maybe then it'll still be around when I'm 18

[EscaflownePilot]

Don't forget about the Robotech wave. I remember hearing about starblazers fans complaining about those damn Robotech Kids.

Though I'd like to point out I'm only 14 and I watch Legend Of The Galactic Heroes, Zeta Gundam, Votoms and the like. I'd much rather go to a convention with panels which catered to those sorts of shows, instead of being stuck with the Naruto voice actors panel:shrug:

Oh well, hopefully this type of con will become more popular. Maybe then it'll still be around when I'm 18And this right here is bound to be one of the major problems with a convention like this - it's all done with the assumption that those over 21 are mature enough to hold an intelligent conversation, while those under 21 aren't.

And I mean this beyond a simple "sure, there will always be the occasional dumb 21 year old and smart 14 year old" - time and time again, I run into the most retarded "duuuh.... naruto rox" types at college that wouldn't be able to sit through 30 seconds of Legend of the Galactic Heroes without asking where the massive giant robot or fireball throwing ninjas are, and meanwhile I'm constantly meeting younger fans (as young as 12) that are into that stuff, or at least can have more substance-filled conversation about shows like Naruto than just "Sakura's hot".

So, yeah, I guess my worry about something like this (as others in the thread have lightly touched on) is that, rather than attracting the more intellectual types in general, it's only going to keep out the younger crowd while receiving just as many "lawlyaoi" college-age kids as any other convention... if not more, if only for the presence of alcohol.

Too many people base maturity and intellect on age, but in general, that's not true. General law of life, the majority of people are stupid, regardless of age. I can only hope that the general marketing they're giving the convention - emphasizing the academic aspects - will be enough to keep the morons away.

[GWOtaku]

In all fairness, I don't think their driving motivation is an age = maturity assumption. Its more an attempt to answer the fact that there are a lot of older fans with different interests. With the considerable growth in the fandom in recent years there are a great many conventions that suit a general audience and the younger fanbase (namely all of them), so having an event aimed directly at an earlier generation of fans doesn't come off as a harmful or a bad idea to me.