How Would You Rate Batman Beyond?

[Livewire]

I may be more of a Superman fan, but that doesn't mean I don't think B:TAS was a good show. On the contrary, I think it was very good( I guess I'm just not into to that dark and gothic thing :p ) I have a completly different opinion of BB. IMO, it ruined the whole Batman mythos. I didn't like it at all. What about you? How would you rate it?

[Bird Boy]

I picked "Very Good", as Season 2 completely knocked it's score down. Very few good episodes out of that season..(I would rate season two as 45%, as the other 2 seasons were 90%'s)...

-BB

[Caped Crusader]

I agree with Livewire, BB completely ruined Batman. I just like to pretend the whole show never happened. Bruce Wayne,IMO, is the only Batman, and I think it should've been kept that way.


EDIT: I also hate the way BB reduced Bruce Waye to some sickly old man. You'd think after all those years of being Batman, he'd be in better health.

[TheScarecrow]

I think the show, imo, suffered from a lack of direction then anything else. Terry would fight criminals in one episode, and then would fight a dead corpse who could control the earth the next. A lot of "out-there" plots (kind of like they were going for the "Buffy crowd"). Watching the reruns on Cartoon Network really show me the change in tone sometimes from one episode to the another.

I never understood writing Blight out of the show. I mean The Joker was "killed off" in some eps of BTAS and TNBA, but he always came back. Without a villain to drive Terry and be his #1 foe, the show suffered even more imo.

And I think the death blow to the show was Max Gibson. You would think that after sucking the life out of nearly all the characters on the show, that Timm and co would just cut their losses and write her out somehow, but she stayed on the show to the bitter end. Unmasked highlighted her stupidity for me, by urging Terry to tell his girlfriend that he is Batman.

And I don't know if this is on topic, but Terry's Batman came off as a Spider-man clone most of the time.

[James]

I voted 'excellent'.

I agree the show certainly wasn't flawless, but it was a bold and unique move. I have a great deal of respect for anyone who'll try to reinvent a myth or legend and on the whole, I think it worked.

I love it. Always have done. I love B:TAS too, but sometimes it felt a little... pompous - that would be my only criticism, BB was a little more down to Earth and I liked that.

Pompous, better explain that before the flickering torchlights of the lynch mob begin to illuminate the windows of my abode.

I think for it was the score. It took the Elfman theme and turned it from a forboding character signature into what seemed like a overdramtic and triumphant exclaimation at our hero's entrance (der der der da! our blocky hero smashes through the window, it just needed a cry of 'Here I come to save the day!' to finish it off!). That may sound silly and totally disagreeable to many of you who I know ADORE the score, but to me, it made Bats seem vaguely, well comical.

I digress, but only to point out why a cartoon which within the story has some many flaws to it's predecessors comes up trumps for me. It felt comfortable with itself - as if it wasn't trying to be anything it wasn't. The music reflected the futuristic theme while still embracing some of the character's darker elements. And occasionally - ever so occasionally - you hear what sounded to be the Elfman Bat theme... surely not?!

For me, a programme can be made or broken by it's score and BB had want I felt was required (plus I love old grumpy Bruce, Terry, Dana, Barbara and co!)

Food for thought I hope...

[RogueMartian]

Originally posted by Caped Crusader
I also hate the way BB reduced Bruce Waye to some sickly old man. You'd think after all those years of being Batman, he'd be in better health.

I dunno, it seems pretty logical that he might have gotten into some bad health as he aged. He's probably been shot, stabbed, beaten, and broken every bone in his body a couple of times.

I liked Batman Beyond, it didn't ruin the mythos for me, but it did have its problems. It didn't have enough characters. Terry lacked a nemesis, and Terry wasn't really all there (Bruce did most of the real detective work). Max I didn't like at all, and one big thing that bothered me: where were Terry's guy friends? Terry is a 17? year old boy that hang out with girls only. Yeah okay, thats every adolescent male fantasy, but it always bothered me that terry had no compatriots. The only other guy on the show was Nelson, who was an idiot and a jerk.

[Watagashi]

It was great, but it wasn't excellent. It had good episodes and it had bad ones, so over all, it was just very good.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Originally posted by RogueMartian


I dunno, it seems pretty logical that he might have gotten into some bad health as he aged. He's probably been shot, stabbed, beaten, and broken every bone in his body a couple of times.

I liked Batman Beyond, it didn't ruin the mythos for me, but it did have its problems. It didn't have enough characters. Terry lacked a nemesis, and Terry wasn't really all there (Bruce did most of the real detective work). Max I didn't like at all, and one big thing that bothered me: where were Terry's guy friends? Terry is a 17? year old boy that hang out with girls only. Yeah okay, thats every adolescent male fantasy, but it always bothered me that terry had no compatriots. The only other guy on the show was Nelson, who was an idiot and a jerk.

You forgetting Jared and Howard. They somewhat Terry's friends. Julio(in the comic book) is his best friend

[RogueMartian]

I never read the comics. Howard was only in one episode and I don't even know who Jared is, so i'm guessing he only made a one episode appearance as well. I meant a regular appearance. Nelson, Dana, Max, Chelsea, Blade etc. they are in over half the episodes.

[CadaverousEyes]

Very good. Some of the episodes were embarrassing, but they made up for that with episodes like The Call, Out of the Past and Wayne having Max arrested in Where's Terry.

[Zoddman]

Well, I didn't really hate the show, I liked Terry and some of the villians, but I can't see Bruce Wayne giving up being Batman just because of a weak heart and holding up a gun in desperation. The man had prevailed through worse situations, I don't think death could even keep Bruce from the mantle of the bat.

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by Zoddman
Well, I didn't really hate the show, I liked Terry and some of the villians, but I can't see Bruce Wayne giving up being Batman just because of a weak heart and holding up a gun in desperation. The man had prevailed through worse situations, I don't think death could even keep Bruce from the mantle of the bat.

It's a matter of moral, not physical reasons. Sure Bruce had a weak heart, but the point is, he held up that gun to defend himself- something he swore he'd never do. Also, if he continued in his state, he would have probably been a danger to himself and the people he was trying to save. A burden, rather than a helper.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Originally posted by RogueMartian
I never read the comics. Howard was only in one episode and I don't even know who Jared is, so i'm guessing he only made a one episode appearance as well. I meant a regular appearance. Nelson, Dana, Max, Chelsea, Blade etc. they are in over half the episodes.

How many episodes of BB did you watch? Jared was in Spellbound, Armory, Eggbaby and maybe Terry's friend dates a robot too. He took a part of more episodes then one.

[RogueMartian]

Okay, I remember who he is now. He still wasn't really that big a character though.

[Calico]

I gotta have a soft spot for the show since it got me into Batman. Of course what's really fascinating (to me) is the older Bruce Wayne. Seeing him face the fact that his ultimate foe is not Two-Face, Bane, or the Joker, but Time itself. The episodes focusing on him (Shriek, Out of the Past, King's Ransom) are my favorites, especially when he kicks butt.

But there are some episodes that are really lame. Re-watched Unmasked tonight. Not having the 'final episode' hype, I just watched it as an ordinary ep. Sucks!

[ghost15]

i said it was a good show. i dont think terry is a very good batman. he uses the suit as a cruch. and its incredibly unrealistic evan for a cartoon.

[Frank White]

Originally posted by TheScarecrow

And I don't know if this is on topic, but Terry's Batman came off as a Spider-man clone most of the time.

Wow, I thought I was the only one who noticed this. To be Batman should not have THAT much ability. I mean how scary is he supposed to be if he jumping around buildings and stuff. Plus the way he swung sometimes from his Batgrapples? Very shady. Methinks Timm and Co. may have studied a couple Spider-Man comics.

[superfreak]

I think its an excellent show. I've always feel that Bruce should pass on his mantle to a successor when he got old. Batman Beyond fits into what I consider as the Future for Batman.

[James]

Originally posted by ghost15
i said it was a good show. i dont think terry is a very good batman. he uses the suit as a cruch. and its incredibly unrealistic evan for a cartoon.

I don't agree - Bruce was in theory using the suit prior to Terry and I've yet to hear that argument used on him.
In fact, several episodes were written to prove that Terry could work without the suit and that he capable of the task and not just reliant on the suit.

I've never noticed anyone make this argument for Bruce and his ultility belt..

[James]

Originally posted by Frank White


Wow, I thought I was the only one who noticed this. To be Batman should not have THAT much ability. I mean how scary is he supposed to be if he jumping around buildings and stuff. Plus the way he swung sometimes from his Batgrapples? Very shady. Methinks Timm and Co. may have studied a couple Spider-Man comics.

I don't think that was any denial that there were elements of Spiderman taken into the character - less perhaps in equipment (which for a future Batman was a realistic progression - I'm sure Bruce would have stuck to walls if he could) but in the dialogue.

Terry's wise cracks as he fights are akin to Peter's. But then borrowing from sources is NEVER a bad thing. That's how you create new ideas. In fact, I think the point was to juxtapose Terry from Bruce.

Would everyone prefered for our future Batman to have worn the sam outfit, done the same things and acted in the same way as Bruce? Very exciting.

All art is in essence built on the blocks of other work - writing is an art and abides by the same rules.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Originally posted by ghost15
i said it was a good show. i dont think terry is a very good batman. he uses the suit as a cruch. and its incredibly unrealistic evan for a cartoon.

Terry is young. He doesn't have expirience as much as Mr. Wayne does. Remember Mr. Wayne trained for being Batman all his life.

[Livewire]

Well, I'm glad excellent isn't in the lead, because imo, BB was far from excellent. It's nice to see what other people think about it, though. :)

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by Caped Crusader
I agree with Livewire, BB completely ruined Batman. I just like to pretend the whole show never happened. Bruce Wayne,IMO, is the only Batman, and I think it should've been kept that way.


EDIT: I also hate the way BB reduced Bruce Waye to some sickly old man. You'd think after all those years of being Batman, he'd be in better health.
i have to agree

[Zoddman]

I agree with the three of 'ya. If not for Kid's WB's demographic test, we could have gotten two or three more seasons of Batman and Superman.

[James]

Originally posted by Zoddman
I agree with the three of 'ya. If not for Kid's WB's demographic test, we could have gotten two or three more seasons of Batman and Superman.

.. but you didn't, so the point is hypothetical - and there is no proof that the network would have made such a choice.

Can't you just embrace the fact you got another 'Bat series' instead of nothing? I don't mean to sound rude, but it's seems a negative way of thinking.

Just see it as a bit of fun. A 'What If?' Embrace the challenge it was to the BatMyth, be grateful for these great debates it has spawned and enjoy the best bits of the show!

That's what I say! :)

[Lucky Bob]

It marked the beginning of the end for the Silver Age cartoons, and now Warner Bros has gone to mostly action cartoons, or their feature flicks.

Which brings me to Chuck Jones. (sniff!) The poor guy spent the last part of his life writing for "made for Internet" cartoons! Now, there's nothing wrong with that, in fact I like them! But the problem is, the WB network was too busy showing stuff like Jackie Chan, Pokemon, and BB to really do anything entertaining. Thus, the new cartoons were limited to a smaller audience than they would have gotten had they been released for TV.

BTAS was a great series, in my opinion, but the difference between it and Beyond was that it was balanced with some equally high-quality humorous cartoons, giving Warner Bros. a clear dominance in the cartoon world in the '90s.

I have a question, do you think the reason Cartoon Network is such a popular channel nowadays is because they are showing what Warner Bros. has left behind? Does that say something right there?

Here endeth the mindless ramblings of the newbie!

[James]

Originally posted by luckybob1985

Which brings me to Chuck Jones. (sniff!) The poor guy spent the last part of his life writing for "made for Internet" cartoons! Now, there's nothing wrong with that, in fact I like them! But the problem is, the WB network was too busy showing stuff like Jackie Chan, Pokemon, and BB to really do anything entertaining. Thus, the new cartoons were limited to a smaller audience than they would have gotten had they been released for TV.


I didn't know Chuck was still working. That's a shame, a seemingly great come down for someone with such a gigantic influence on the history of cartoons.



BTAS was a great series, in my opinion, but the difference between it and Beyond was that it was balanced with some equally high-quality humorous cartoons, giving Warner Bros. a clear dominance in the cartoon world in the '90s.


Well I don't see Batman Beyond as being a far stretch from the original - in some cases it was more violent however I agree that the overall tone and content was not as dark as the original - however it was an original concept and as such should be seen as a breakaway from the standard toy-to-toon fair...?

WB simply does whats profitable - and whats safe, the neutering of BB is just as much of an example as their lack of 'true toons'. A very hard market to reinvent as it requires thought and talent - both of which WB seem uncomfortable to pay for on the small screen..

[Lucky Bob]

Yeah, don't they. But you can see some of Jones's work on warnerbrothers.com, under the "Timberwolf" cartoons section.

[Joe Wagner]

I personally really enjoyed the entire Batman Beyond series. When I first heard about the project I was a bit skeptical about the entire idea but after watching a couple of eps I was hooked. I've always been a Wolverine and Superman fan and this was the first time I started collecting (like majorly collecting) anything from the Bat. I thought the artwork on the series was great, Will Fredle's VA was enjoyable and the thought of the progression of Bruce was very kewl.

i also liked the ties that they held to both S:TAS and B:TAS while still establishing their own stories. Overall I ranked it as excellent as this skyrocketed to the top of my fave cartoons list.

-Joe!

[Trent Lane]

I really wanted to say excellent, but as mentioned before, the second season kinda got off course a little. The weakest episodes come from that time, where as the stronger episodes (Black Out, Out of the Past, The Call, etc.) came from the other seasons. You have to wonder whether the fourth season would have helped or hurt the show, tho. We'd get to see some more of the JLU and maybe Dick Grayson, but I don't know if they would handle it quite right... would make for an intresting comic book mini series, tho....

[DisneyBoy]

I voted it as "Fair"...(which is pretty generous, coming from me...)

In truth, I really wouldn't cry if they had never made the series and had instead spent the time and effort on a few more B:TAS DTVs or episodes...

[The Game]

I voted fair. The show had it's strong points but was still kinda lame, besides- I just hate the theory of the show. Bruce should die wearing the suit, and there will never be another Batman.

[The Mad Hatter]

I'd have to call it good... it didn't live up to B:TAS or S:TAS, though it came close to the latter. The series struggled with forgettable "villains of the week" for a time, and the rogue's gallery never attained the level of Bruces'. Plus the fact that while I truly enjoyed Terry's character, especially when he got a chance to prove that he's talented outside the suit (and especially when he was able to beat Joker in ROTJ using his own style), he just wasn't as fascinating a figure as Bruce. Still, the plots, dialogue, characters and music were all scads better than nearly every other animated series out there at the time.

[James]

Originally posted by jjwspider
I I thought the artwork on the series was great, Will Fredle's VA was enjoyable and the thought of the progression of Bruce was very kewl.



-Joe!


I agree, kudos to Friedle for a very solid and entertaining performance as Terry. Although normally suited to humour, I think he did a spectacular and convincing job as Terry.

Pleasantly suprised!

[jimi5150]

I voted "very good".

Like many of you, I was VERY skeptical when the series started out. I thought; "A new, younger Batman? Please...".

I didn't like it at all. I kept watching to keep reminding myself how much I didn't like it.

I started to notice something after a while.

Terry was evolving as a character. I don't think I could name another cartoon where they did this successfully. He quit being the bad-attitude, smart-assed, whining little brat he was.

ACE even grew to like him.

As for Bruce Wayne being old and broken- of COURSE he would be. Decades of physical abuse. How many broken bones? Gunshot wounds? Ripped ligaments? Electrical shocks? Poisonings, knife wounds, bad hair days, bad EAR days, sidekicks with bad attitude days...the list goes on and on.

If ROTJ was meant to be the endstory; they did well.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I too was skeptical about it when I first heard about it. In fact, I had decided not to go out of my way to see. But my roommate taped it, (neither of us go up very early on Saturdays :D )and eventually I caught the episode where Blight was reveled to the public. Needless to say, I was hooked.

But having recently seen pretty much the entire run, that very episode was pretty much the peak of the show. The idea was good, and the characters of Terry and Bruce seemed well thought out. But the execution just plain lacked something, and it slide further downhill into the following seasons.

And finally, I'd like to add my agreement with jimi regarding Bruce's condition. You just can't put that much strain on your body without severe reprecussions. If you want proof, just find some old professional linemen and see how mobile they are.

[BeastBoyWonder]

Terry was evolving as a character. I don't think I could name another cartoon where they did this successfully. He quit being the bad-attitude, smart-assed, whining little brat he was.

EXACTLY! I loved this show for several reasons. Like nearly everyone else, I was a bit skeptical about the show at the start and longed for some more TNBA and STAS, espcially since I had recently discovered them. But they day they played Legacy, then Rebirth, I was hooked. (Welcome to MY world...that episode was freakin awesome) In my eyes, Terry was not a Batman, he was another Robin. At the start, Bruce was more of the focus and authority of the show and Terry was almost a wisecracking, supporting character. Terry used both the Batsuit and Bruce as a crutch, and he was virtually a puppet.

I liked even this idea, because it showed us that even if Bruce was not able to physically protect citizens from harm, he still fulfilled his obsession, which was really the underlying focus of the show at the beginning. However, the show would become boring very fast if it didn't move anywhere. They had Terry gradually learning the way things worked, doing some detective work, not always relying on Bruce, and acting a bit more like Batman. Terry still didn't have the grim attitude of batman, but Bruce had enough of that. to satisfy our needs.

Some episodes, like Shriek and the one where terry fights the computerized suit show Terry growing more and more into the role of Batman. He still has his immaturity and temper, but the contrast and interaction between bruce and terry is really fun. The second season, well, sucked, but even BTAS, which is considered a godly show by some denizens of the Toonzone forums had its share of bad episodes.

Anyway, by ROTJ i saw terry as batman, partially because of everything that he had accomplished, partially because of all of Bruce's influence, partially because of his moral character (which was slowly revealed to us), and partially because of his attitude. This was no Bruce Batman, but we got to see Terry evolve into his own hero. In a sense, he kind of is Batman, because he's picked up some of the mannerisms and style of Bruce, and has the bat emblem. In other ways, he is NOT Batman, but his own character with his own sense of humor and mentality. I liked this character, others may not.

In all, I loved the show because of they way they had Bruce portrayed as ending up, which is logical given his obsession. Then he's given a "rebirth" by this energetic kid who can't help but to cross paths with him. He guides this cool kid into becoming his own superhero. Bruce stays the same for us, acting like the real batman. And terry, he's cool too.

Now all we need is a Robin. That DAK kid from "where's terry" would make a good one.

[James]

Wow, it's great to see some new, positive comments on the show an unexpected swing towards Batman Beyond.

I think perhaps another point to why BB is so interesting is perspective. We now watch Batman through the eyes of the protege. We watch Terry's entrance in to Bruce's world through Terry's eyes - not Bruces. So, in a way, when Terry enters the Batcave, dons the suits, converses with Bruce, so do we. It's as if we are able to glimpse the world of Bruce Wayne without specifically following him.

He don't really get to see his lifestyle. What he does, what has made him who he is, even where his friends have gone. The viewer is left in as much ignorance as Terry.

We encrouch on Terry's world not Bruce's which why I think the format of the show is so great.

And, of course, for the great points in the last post!

[SSNTails]

Originally posted by SJJ



I agree, kudos to Friedle for a very solid and entertaining performance as Terry. Although normally suited to humour, I think he did a spectacular and convincing job as Terry.

Pleasantly suprised!

Too bad Terry's teacher's name wasn't Mr. Feeney.

"HEY FEENEEYYYY!!" :p

[sun]

I believe that any continuation of the series is good, even if it doesn't stand up to the previous high standards of its predecesor....Some of the writing was good, some animation was ok, but it was good to see the characters alive and continueing, even in a different world...Could have been much worse., but it could have been much better too.

[kachuke]

i gave it an excellent i feel that it is a pretty natural way the plot would have progresses like someone said up a few posts look at some famous linebacker of the past and see how they can barely walk today. from the beginning terry changed his attitude through the whole series and remember at first terry just stole the batsuit to do his thing it wasn't like bruce put a want ad in the paper and gave it to the first kid to show up..i thought it was very cool to watch bruce send terry to get trained and showing him the ropes

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Originally posted by kachuke
i gave it an excellent i feel that it is a pretty natural way the plot would have progresses like someone said up a few posts look at some famous linebacker of the past and see how they can barely walk today. from the beginning terry changed his attitude through the whole series and remember at first terry just stole the batsuit to do his thing it wasn't like bruce put a want ad in the paper and gave it to the first kid to show up..i thought it was very cool to watch bruce send terry to get trained and showing him the ropes

Yeah, it's cool. I would still give Batman Beyond a very good show rating. No cartoon show is perfect.

[James]

Precisely. Shows how a spin-off from a good TV show can be excellent. Zeta shows how NOT to do it!

I think the beauty of BB is that there will always be this debate. The same occurred with Final Fantasy 7. Even today, people argue over the ending or the meaning of the story. BB will always have a love/hate which means hopefully it's shelf life will be long lasting. It is the controversy in the Batman world (unlike Zeta which everyone agrees was VERY bad...)