Death of Gwen Stacy

[James Harvey]

I went through a box of semi-old comics (the house is under construction so I boxed my books and put them in the attic) and I found a tradepaperback of THE DEATH OF GWEN STACY. One thing, I was surprised at how mature the book is, and how well her death was handled. Granted, the over art to the issue sorta heavily plugged it, but it was handled great on the inside. Plus, I also liked how Goblin's death wasn't this big two page splash page, but the last panel. I miss the old feel that the comics once had, y'know? With less than perfect coloring and totally dated.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Me too. And I miss the more conservative art styles of older comics, without all those over-embellished lines and a firm grasp on the use of blacks, anatomy and perspective.

I'm also sure people found the "snap" sound shocking, implying that Spidey, in fact, may have been ultimately responsible for the death.

Wanna know what was the most powerful part of the issue in my opinion? The epilogue with Mary Jane and Peter. It lasted only one page, but it packed more emotion in it than many comics these days do in ten.

[James Harvey]

That one page epilogue was one of the strongest, most emotional sequences I've ever read. It was so true and blunt. Plus, this was a major character change for both Peter and Mary. I love how there's no "the end" text block, just the "click" sound as MJ closes the door. Ust brilliant. I still, and always will, consider this story one of my all time favorites.

[whitmore_sean]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
Plus, I also liked how Goblin's death wasn't this big two page splash page, but the last panel.


They may as well have skipped that panel, for all the story meant to the Marvel heads. "Nah, that was stupid, the Goblin should have had a healing factor."


SEAN
"What's FUBAR?"
"It's German."

[CadaverousEyes]

Nothing screams desperation more than bringing back a villain that's been dead for 30 years. The biggest inconsistency is that there was *another* person who had that hairstyle.
How I long for the days when major changes and character deaths only happened once every blue moon.

[The Green Hornet]

well for 30 years it stood as one of the great moments in comicdom

the whole clone thing still makes me mad, ESPECIALLY considering i got to know and eventually came to REALLY LIKE the Scarlet Spider Ben Reilly (plus i really liked his costume when be became spidey)

then they GO AND KILL HIM IN SUCH A CHEAP MANNER

and bring back a villian who had been dead for 30 years who we find out has been masterminding plans against spidey all this time and that he had an ACTOR play Aunt May and fall so in love with the part and the family that she THOUGHT she WAS aunt may?

GIVE ME A BREAK

grrr that whole mess still gets me going

anyway Spidey appears to be back on track and going strong now-- KUDOS TO ALL ON ALL THREE BOOKS

[Zoddman]

I agree with you guys. The Death of Gwen Stacy story is STILL one of the best comic-book stories, or any story i've read, bar none. The two splash panels of Peter's flashback are really lovely.
and the way that Peter confronted the Green Goblin, shouting at him that he killed an innocent girl, while the Goblin just rambled on about how he was going to destroy Spidey, I wanted to see that mother [explentive deleted] die. :mad:

[Calhoun07]

I love the Death of Gwen Stacy. I wonder what the chances are that we wil see in in a major movie? The student film version of it that circulates at cons isn't all that bad, either.

[metaphysician]

I don't know, from the trailers of the Spiderman movie, if they aren't including the Death of Gwen Stacy, they are trying damn hard to mimic the scene.

[Dub]

Its time like this I often wished that I was old enough to have read that stuff back then... :(


Surprisngly I have NEVER read the Death of Gwen Stacy, though I desperately want to...

[James Harvey]

Do what I do and get the tradepaperback! :) Marvel released a collection of this back in July of 2001 and it's a book I always re-read. I've been re-reading it almost constantly since I've picked up a few months back. It's great to see comics before they devolved into gimmicks.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by metaphysician
I don't know, from the trailers of the Spiderman movie, if they aren't including the Death of Gwen Stacy, they are trying damn hard to mimic the scene.

Peter's love interest in the film is Mary Jane. I don't know if Gwen's in it, but I do know that if they tried to mimic it, there wouldn't be as much impact. Before MJ, Gwen was THE girl. I heard that Stan Lee was furious that this story was approved while he was out of town (they probably told him about it, but he either forgot or was busy, knowing Stan ;) )

[Russkafin]

If you have not read it, the trade paperback is a must. I just recently bought the trade over the summer, and I loved it.

Did you guys see the episode of the Spider-Man cartoon, "Turning Point"? It was a very loose adaptation of the Gwen Stacy story, but with Mary Jane... and instead of dying, MJ fell into one of those "Spot" portal things, and Spidey thought she was dead... and Goblin ended up getting knocked into one, too. Guess that was as close to dying as Fox Kids would let them get.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Russkafin
If you have not read it, the trade paperback is a must. I just recently bought the trade over the summer, and I loved it.

Did you guys see the episode of the Spider-Man cartoon, "Turning Point"? It was a very loose adaptation of the Gwen Stacy story, but with Mary Jane... and instead of dying, MJ fell into one of those "Spot" portal things, and Spidey thought she was dead... and Goblin ended up getting knocked into one, too. Guess that was as close to dying as Fox Kids would let them get.

I thought this was the point the Spider-Man caryoon went downhill. The cosmic portal/alternate dimension stuff was just so out of place.

[CadaverousEyes]

Hey now, Mysterio and his girlfriend commited suicide. Naturally they went out by explosion, since the #1 animated action series rule is that almost every episode should end with an explosion.

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by TheFastestManAlive
well for 30 years it stood as one of the great moments in comicdom

the whole clone thing still makes me mad, ESPECIALLY considering i got to know and eventually came to REALLY LIKE the Scarlet Spider Ben Reilly (plus i really liked his costume when be became spidey)



I've heard about you - so you're the legendary second person that actually liked that story line. I thought the Scarlet Spider was one of the greatest things that ever happened to the Spidey books and thought Ben's death lacked any real motivation - other than the fact Marvel was to chicken to keep him alive. A lot of people didn't want Ben to be the "one, true Spider-man" but at the same time didn't want him to die. The Aunt May thing was also crazy, Amazing #400 was another one of those 'legendary' issues that Marvel tossed out the window.

-Joe!

[James Harvey]

Aunt May had a beautiful send off in ASM #400. It was amazing, emotional, and very powerful. I loved how Peter was at her side, and that she knew! I thought it was one of the best stories ever written. Then they just brought her back (thank you, Mackie) and it just ruined ASM #400. I re-read #400 all the time. Such a great issue with beautiful artwork by Bagley. I hate that darn gatefold thingie on the cover. So...ugh...

[kid_flash]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
It's great to see comics before they devolved into gimmicks.

I could rant on and on about that, but I won't. This time. Basically, if you think comics are all gimmicks, you're reading too many DC titles. I love 'em, but there are more gimmicks there than any other publisher. Go read an indie or some of the finer Marvel works.

Then again, I'm not old enough to have an educated opinion on comics before the 90's. But it's an opinion nonetheless. Comics these days are better than they've ever been.

[The Green Hornet]

the REAL question about the whole clone mess is why on EARTH peter didnt start using Ben's weapons after he died-- he even commented when they met "why didn't *I* think of that?" when he saw impact webbing and stingers

Bens death makes me mad still

grrrr


BTW Spidey 2099 is AWESOME-- i loved every issue of that book ESPECIALLY the Fall of the Hammer crossover!!

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by kid_flash


I could rant on and on about that, but I won't. This time. Basically, if you think comics are all gimmicks, you're reading too many DC titles. I love 'em, but there are more gimmicks there than any other publisher. Go read an indie or some of the finer Marvel works.

Then again, I'm not old enough to have an educated opinion on comics before the 90's. But it's an opinion nonetheless. Comics these days are better than they've ever been.

Marvel was the most gimmick-oriented company from 1992-1998. I think they ARE better now (at least, they are back to being for reading instead of for collecting) but any arguments claiming that the majority of the 90s was a glory period for Marvel doesn't hold up, in my opinion.

[CadaverousEyes]

I thought that 92-early 98 was a good period for Marvel. I may be biased because that's when I got into and left comics (till '00) but it was entertaining nonetheless. It really helps to pretend a lot of things don't exist. (every Infinity crossover after Gauntlet, Spider-Man: The Quick Fix and the mess that caused it that could have been great had the writers handled it better, Heroes Reborn, etc.) Okay, so there was a lot of bad stuff, but there were some good things too! Don't ask me to name them.

As for being for reading and not collecting, just look at their no-overprinting policy.

[kid_flash]

I totally agree that Marvel was more gimmick-oriented in the 90's, but I was more talking about comics now (besides, I didn't start reading Marvel until Ultimate Spider-Man). Also, I made sure to say the "finer Marvel comics" because they're still far from gimmick-free.

I agree that comics should be read over collected, but I support Marvel's "no-overprint" policy. It adds a spice to a type of collecting that really wasn't that much of collecting anymore. Before the "no-overprint" thing, you could re-order any Marvel book that came out in the last few months. Now you HAVE to get there the week they come in, or you're turning to eBay. It was either Jemas or Quesada that said "We're making Wednesdays exciting again." Also, from a business standpoint, sales have improved. And besides, I love the fact that I grabbed ORIGIN #1 for $3.50, and it's now worth $40, even though I'd never sell that comic in my life.

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
Aunt May had a beautiful send off in ASM #400. It was amazing, emotional, and very powerful. I loved how Peter was at her side, and that she knew! I thought it was one of the best stories ever written. Then they just brought her back (thank you, Mackie) and it just ruined ASM #400. I re-read #400 all the time. Such a great issue with beautiful artwork by Bagley. I hate that darn gatefold thingie on the cover. So...ugh...

The only thing that I can find that is even romotely good about her coming back - the Amazing Spidey JMS issue where they have their lovely chat about her knowing Pete was Spidey.


Originally posted by TheFastestManAlive
the REAL question about the whole clone mess is why on EARTH peter didnt start using Ben's weapons after he died-- he even commented when they met "why didn't *I* think of that?" when he saw impact webbing and stingers

Bens death makes me mad still

grrrr


BTW Spidey 2099 is AWESOME-- i loved every issue of that book ESPECIALLY the Fall of the Hammer crossover!!

Peter did start using the impact webbing for a bit and even used the stingers while hey was doing the whole "Slingers" thing when he had a price on his head for like one million dollars.

FYI Ben will be featured in an upcoming issue of Spider-Girl. It looks like he might even be back or it might be Peter talking about Ben, either way he figures to be a prominent piece of the story. I plan on picking it up if I can find it anywhere.

Spidey 2099 was insane. I loved that title and thought that Marvel never should have cancelled the book, just got a better writing and art team and re-ignited it. Once again Marvel strikes again with the destruction of some great ideas and characters.

-Joe!

[The Green Hornet]

ben back?

im gonna buy that issue to be sure

[Joe Wagner]

Yep :D

-Joe

[James Harvey]

Well buy it now! It was released last week (or maybe the week before) to huge fanfare.

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
Well buy it now! It was released last week (or maybe the week before) to huge fanfare.

Go figure - the one character that Marvel specifically said they never wanted to do anything with again makes a comeback to a huge fan crowd. Just goes to show that a lot of people liked Ben, just not as Spider-Man.

-Joe!

[The Green Hornet]

you know what i would have done with Ben?

moved him to SAINT LOUIS AND GIVEN HIM HIS OWN BOOK, CAST AND VILLIANS

what a great comic that could have been

[James Harvey]

Call me a paranoid, but I alwasy thought Wizard somehow played a part in the demise of the character. Marvel and Wizard seem to be bedfellows, and this would make sense since Wizard was always knocking the character.

Now...back to Gwen...:)

[CadaverousEyes]

Personally, I think if we ever see "Gwen Miles" again, it'll be too soon.

[James Harvey]

I really hope that that clone never resurfaces. You know, the original Clone arc from way back (ASM #151 I think) was good. Why they decided to revisit it is just beyond me. It was good as it was.

[Joe Wagner]

I did enjoy the re-emergence of Ben, but I would have to agree that I could have done without all the other clones that came afterwards - particularly Gwen, Spidercide and some of the other nameless ones (altho Kaine was still kind of a kewl character). I guess I just really wish they would have handled it differently as Peter began to think of Ben as a brother than his clone and really had to re-analyze what was important in his life. I think it's pretty kewl that Peter still thinks of Ben occasionally and even wishes that he was still around. Besides, what ever did happen to the Gwen clone? Didn't she have the clone degeneration thing or did she just leave after Miles died?

-Joe!

[CadaverousEyes]

After the Jackal died she just went back to her life. Apparently her happy reunion with MJ and Peter wasn't enough for her to stick around.

[James]

My 'golden age' was late eighties/early nineties - where McFarlane and Jim Lee were occasional pleasant suprises before their spawned a multitude of bad clones and the whole Marvel thing started to look messy and generic.

I agree with Jim about the simple artwork that told a story rather than let the story be governed by the artwork.

2000AD suffered that in the UK once Bisley (Judgement On Gotham/Lobo) suddenly hit fame and some very wooden painters with no clue on proportion or serious story telling came to surface.

Suddenly, comics seemed to have to have 'cool' little quirks. Characters would certainly have to be drawn with Looney Tunesque faces when something odd happened and the whole thing descended into teen doodles. Bisley is good - but his style shouldn't be imitated..

Back to point, 2000ad suffered as has Marvel. The art over took the pictures and only now is it starting to reverse this trend.

Action shots/comedy artwork can nullify emotion. Sometimes Artists get a little too cocky.

I liked Reilly too - hope the reappearance is for good (in one form or another!)

[James Harvey]

Reilly had his good points, I'll give him that. I did like the tweaked costume he got. It was actually pretty cool looking. It works on SPIDER-GIRL, but it shouldn't be SPIDER-MAN's costume.I don't like how when one artist hits it big, we just see a flood of copycats. It's demeaning to the original artist and the books as well.