Why are these animated films so short?

[RONDC20]

Justice League: New Frontier is a measly 75 minutes long. Superman Doomsday is also 75 minutes long.

Hellboy Animated Sword of Storms is 77 minutes long and Blood and Iron is again only 75 minutes long Ultimate Avengers is a sad 71 minutes and it’s sequel Ultimate Avengers 2 is 73 minutes long.

Iron Man clocks in at a slightly more impressive 83 minutes and Doctor Strange is the most impressive of the list clocking in at a very impressive 95 minutes.

I like a lot of these films, But Lets face it, the fact is that these films are too short, barely making the 90 minute mark.

This is one thing that's really bugged me about these films. The Japanese make 2 hour animated films all the time, so what's stopping us from doing it? The recent and popular Miazaki animated films range from 117 all the way to 134 minute slong

They used to use the excuse that an animated movie longer than 80 minutes is too long to keep the attention of a child, but that excuse does not hold merit when it comes to PG-13 animated films aimed at an older Comic Book fan audience.

Both Brad Bird animated films from Pixar are quite long and have began pushing the length of american made animated films. The Incredibles is 115 minutes long and Ratatouille is 111 minutes long and Cars while not directed by Brad Bird was still quite long and clocks in at an impresive 116 minutes long. Take into consideration that 120 minutes is 2 hours.

I just think their being lazy, theres no excuse for these films being so damn short. Anime does it all the time. With slightly longer films we would get meatier plots and better films, now I know this is not a sure thing, but I think It would help.

[Peter Svensson]

It's not laziness, as it is budgetary concerns. These aren't being funded like full length Hollywood theatrically released animated films, they don't have that sort of budget. So the shorter length comes from that, in addition to other concerns.

[GWOtaku]

Sure, I'd like 90 minutes or better for these, but this seems harsh. As well produced as they are, it doesn't seem fair to compare DTV movies to productions as polished and well funded as The Incredibles and one's Miyazaki film of choice.

[Peter Svensson]

Yeah, there was a great bit in the Q&A after the premiere of New Frontier where a fan asked about a Kingdom Come movie, and the response was something like "If you can find the $200 million we'd need, we'd do it." These aren't big budget productions.

[RONDC20]

A bit harsh... perhaps, but I just want to see longer films thats all. I just feel a little cheated. I think these films could be longer and more epic.

[FGfan]

Yeah, well even so, these movies are still ridiculously short, especially when you look at the potential they had...

[Palin Dromos]

It's not laziness, as it is budgetary concerns. These aren't being funded like full length Hollywood theatrically released animated films, they don't have that sort of budget. So the shorter length comes from that, in addition to other concerns.


Yep budget is the main factor in these 70-80 minute running times.

As direct-to-video releases these projects can only be expected to generate so much monetary return.

A theatrical film can make its money back from domestic theatrical release, international theatrical release; cable, broadcast, and airline rights, in addition to DVD release and internet streaming.

Since DTV's get money from sales and maybe a few airings on CN, they have to have rather conservative budgets in order to expect any profit to be made in order to justify their existence.

Until additional realistic avenues of distribution are used to distribute these products the budgets aren't going to increase considerably.

It's lame, but Hollywood is a business these days so artistic vision has to compromise.:sad:

[Gokou Ruri]

This is one thing that's really bugged me about these films. The Japanese make 2 hour animated films all the time, so what's stopping us from doing it? The recent and popular Miazaki animated films range from 117 all the way to 134 minute slong You realize you're comparing theatrical films to DTVs, right? Thay's like complaining an episode of Spongebob isn't as long as Ratatouille... different areas, different rules. You should compare these releases with Japan's DTV products, which tend to be only a few 20-minute episodes usually.


It's lame, but Hollywood is a business these days so artistic vision has to compromise.:sad: Yes, God forbid people don't want to throw away money on a project. Movies have always been a business since they were first created.

[Comic Book Boy]

The real problem is picking stories that are too long. Why should the writers have to sacrifice so much? It hurts the product. They need to pick stories that can work in 75 minutes.

[DerekPowers]

I dont really have a problem with the length. I thought New Frontier was paced extremely well, and I really didnt need it to be longer.

And SD's problems, imo, dont stem from the fact that it was 75 mins.

I should just check, but i'm pretty sure MOTP and ROTJ were about 75 mins too, right? No problems there...

I think the approach to these DTVs is awesome. The fact that they are PG-13 is great, and just overall you can tell they care about them. It feels like a whole new approach to mainstream American animation, and it really makes me happy...:D

Keep em coming is all I have to say!

[Robin2099]

Yep budget is the main factor in these 70-80 minute running times.

As direct-to-video releases these projects can only be expected to generate so much monetary return.

A theatrical film can make its money back from domestic theatrical release, international theatrical release; cable, broadcast, and airline rights, in addition to DVD release and internet streaming.

Since DTV's get money from sales and maybe a few airings on CN, they have to have rather conservative budgets in order to expect any profit to be made in order to justify their existence.

Until additional realistic avenues of distribution are used to distribute these products the budgets aren't going to increase considerably.

It's lame, but Hollywood is a business these days so artistic vision has to compromise.:sad:

Not necesarily. Most DTV's typically get released all over the world and can still make money. That's how movies with people like Dolph Lundgren and Steven Segal can still have big budgets(well for STV movies) and still make a profit. The problem is that movies like New Frontier have a limited audience and thus they would still have a problem making back a budget of more then a couple million.

[Revelator]

I dont really have a problem with the length. I thought New Frontier was paced extremely well, and I really didnt need it to be longer.

Believe me, if you'd the comic you wouldn't be saying that. An unfortunate chunk of the material in the DTV comes off as a weakened, truncated digest of the original. If DC and Warner Brothers are serious about what they're doing, they're eventually going to have to find a way to make longer films, especially if they want to keep adapting lengthy comics. If NF is a success--and I hope it will be--perhaps the increased revenues will enable them to afford making the next film longer by a few minutes, and if that's a success, hopefully the one after that would be even longer.

[Palin Dromos]

Not necesarily. Most DTV's typically get released all over the world and can still make money. That's how movies with people like Dolph Lundgren and Steven Segal can still have big budgets(well for STV movies) and still make a profit. The problem is that movies like New Frontier have a limited audience and thus they would still have a problem making back a budget of more then a couple million.

What I was saying is that these projects- the DC Universe, the Marvel/Lionsgate projects, Hellboy:Animated- have limited distribution options to make back revenue.

Dolph and Steven may have a bigger, different draw; therefore making foreign theatrical exhibition feasible and thus budgets bigger.

Also with live action pics exact running time isn't tied into the budget as tightly as it is in an animated pic. If you want to draw out a scene for dramatic effect or use existing coverage to add dialog it's less of an expense in live action. In animation every frame in every second in every minute has to be created. There aren't extra takes or heads and tails on moments. Every minute is factored into the budget in animation.

[Arkaron]

Well, I don't know about the rest of the world, but as far as Europe is concerned, the DTVs are only released in the United Kingdom (about 6 or 8 months after the US). Thus, French, German, Italian, nordic people, etc, will probably never get these films in their own country. I mean, c'mon, there even is no subtitles ! That's ridiculous.

Warner Bros should know their DTVs will be sold to non-American fans thanks to the internet, so they could at least make 6 or 7 subtitles. It's called respect: we buy, we demand subtitles! But as far as they don't grant us with it, I must download the movie once bought to make my own subtitles and allow my family to understand it...

My point is, if Warner could realize they have an audience outside the american continent, the sells would certainly be better, and thus, they could probably have more money to produce their films.

[ROBOTRON]

Editing, budget concerns and probably overworked animators.

Animated films take a very long time time to complete, I'll bet this film as short as it was probably took more than 2 years to finish. Out of that, editors probably cut about another 30 mins out of it and the head honchos and censors most likely axed another 30 mins from the film.

Who knows how long it would've been had all these problems had not factored in.:sweat:

[creativerealms]

Well, I don't know about the rest of the world, but as far as Europe is concerned, the DTVs are only released in the United Kingdom (about 6 or 8 months after the US). Thus, French, German, Italian, nordic people, etc, will probably never get these films in their own country. I mean, c'mon, there even is no subtitles ! That's ridiculous.

Warner Bros should know their DTVs will be sold to non-American fans thanks to the internet, so they could at least make 6 or 7 subtitles. It's called respect: we buy, we demand subtitles! But as far as they don't grant us with it, I must download the movie once bought to make my own subtitles and allow my family to understand it...

My point is, if Warner could realize they have an audience outside the american continent, the sells would certainly be better, and thus, they could probably have more money to produce their films.

Sadly that ties into the whole budget thing, yeah they know that subtitled versions would sell more but would it make up for the cost? If the market is not high enough they won't bother even if they know it exists, it's sad that it works that way.

Yeah these movies could be longer. Hell they should not have even tried to put the death and return of Superman into one movie, while the movie it self was interesting you really had to ignore the comic to enjoy it. New Frontier was a better choice but it still had to sacrifice some content due to time restraints. Anime does this too, I mean look at One Piece Movie eight, trying to condense a huge saga into a ninty minute movie is never a smart thing. You have to sacrifice too much.

[Arkaron]

Sadly that ties into the whole budget thing, yeah they know that subtitled versions would sell more but would it make up for the cost? If the market is not high enough they won't bother even if they know it exists, it's sad that it works that way.Yeah, but if I can make my own subtitles for what? ... nothing. Well, I think it isn't so expensive for them. I mean yes, they'd have to pay the translaters a salary, but this could be done by each Warner company. French subtitles made by Warner France, for example.

But I may be wrong.

[Optimus81]

A bit harsh... perhaps, but I just want to see longer films thats all. I just feel a little cheated. I think these films could be longer and more epic.

I totally hear you, man. I watched New Frontier yesterday right after I bought it and man, it felt crammed into 75 minutes, especially given the fact that the story deals with SO many characters and over the course of a decade. I would've liked it to be longer, as well.

As for MotP and RotJ, those movies dealt with just Batman and his supporting cast, and can fit quite nicely into 75 minutes. A big story like New Frontier, and maybe to a certain degree Superman: Doomsday, would've benefitted from being a bit longer. Even the first two seasons of Justice League (and the first season of Superfriends, even) required 2-parters for every episode to tell the story, until we became familiar with the characters and we moved to half hour shows.

[Steven C]

I wish these animated films were longer as well, but I do understand the financials aspect of it. These films have a niche audience and WB knows they can only make so much, so they have to do it within budget.

I'm just glad we are getting these DCU animated movies.

[Michael24]

For whatever reason, I don't really like when animated movies last longer than roughly 90 minutes. I barely made it through The Incredibles, which I felt was overlong by about a half-hour or so. So I don't mind these features being an average of 70-80 minutes. I think it's a nice length.

[A.J]

The current time is NOT enough and the movies definately feel rushed. I think they should go for at least 90 minutes but I guess they cant for it for budget reasons :sad:

[Robin2099]

What I was saying is that these projects- the DC Universe, the Marvel/Lionsgate projects, Hellboy:Animated- have limited distribution options to make back revenue.

Dolph and Steven may have a bigger, different draw; therefore making foreign theatrical exhibition feasible and thus budgets bigger.

Also with live action pics exact running time isn't tied into the budget as tightly as it is in an animated pic. If you want to draw out a scene for dramatic effect or use existing coverage to add dialog it's less of an expense in live action. In animation every frame in every second in every minute has to be created. There aren't extra takes or heads and tails on moments. Every minute is factored into the budget in animation.

Uh that's exactly what I said at the end of my post when I talked about their being a limited audience for things like DC animated universe and other animated cartoons like that.

[Palin Dromos]

Uh that's exactly what I said at the end of my post when I talked about their being a limited audience for things like DC animated universe and other animated cartoons like that.

Ok. Glad we're on the same page. :)

[maxnugget]

Animated films take a very long time time to complete, I'll bet this film as short as it was probably took more than 2 years to finish. Out of that, editors probably cut about another 30 mins out of it and the head honchos and censors most likely axed another 30 mins from the film.

Trust me, it didn't happen that way. The entire production/management team would be fired if they cut out 30-60 mins of completed animation from the film. :)

WB knows the market and they know what kind of budget they can pull off. If they're not comfortable spending more money on these productsion that's fine, but they need to pick stories that will fit more comfortably into a 70-minute movie.

[FGfan]

Either way, they need to have a look at the potential they've given themselves with these stories, yes I realize SOME constraints had 2 be made for adapting Superman's death, but it dang well deserved more than 70 friggin minutes, they should look at the story they're basing it on before attempting to make it into little more than 2 back to back episodes.

[ichormosquito]

I'm guessing the profit margins on these DVDs are amazing. Niche audience or not, these things SELL. Warners needs to go all out on one of these things and give us a 2+ hour production.

[RONDC20]

I just feel that these animated films could really benefit from longer running times. I hear what your all saying, But Im the kind of guy who feels a bit dissapointed when a Sci-Fi, Superhero,Fantasy or Adventure movie is shorter than 2 hours.

Something as epic as these types of gerne films deserve longer running times. The epic nature of the story themselves sort of demands it. To me if it's considerably shorter than 2 hours I feel a bit cheated, like it could have been so much more epic if they had just gone longer.

Never mind that these are animated films. Being a huge animation buff myself I totally understand what it takes to make an animated film, but we need to push the envolope. This is why I admire Brad Bird so much. He is a huge supporter of the idea that animation does not have to be for kids anymore.

Animation is a medium not a gerne.

The Incredibles was I think one of the first animated films with such a long running time. 115 is just 5 minutes short of hitting the 2 hour mark. BTW I love this film. He challanged the acceptable running lenght of an animated film. The Incredibles was not too short and not too long. It was just right.

In order to further progress the idea that animation is not just for kids studios need to make even more risks and I think longer running times would help this idea.

If the Japanese can do it so can we.

[DerekPowers]

What would solve this problem would be to have DTV original series, like OVAs in Japan. This would be so great, because then they can take the time to tell really engaging stories, more like in the comics. And pg-13?! This is exactly what American animation needs, and it's about time.

A lot of people have brought up making Knightfall or Long Halloween or stories like that into a movie, but they'd work so much better as mini-series or in episodes.

The movies will usually have to trim a lot from the comic story, even if it was 2 hours. And I'd rather a tight runtime than something that drags. I wasnt to into "Ultimate Avengers", so for me, it started to drag. I also thought NF was actually just enough for that movie, but I never read the comic.

[Silly McGooses]

I never really minded the concerns about the classic old 75-minute WB standard until New Fronteir. An extra ten minutes definitely would have helped the film gain some sort of coherency...

[ROBOTRON]

Trust me, it didn't happen that way. The entire production/management team would be fired if they cut out 30-60 mins of completed animation from the film. :)

WB knows the market and they know what kind of budget they can pull off. If they're not comfortable spending more money on these productsion that's fine, but they need to pick stories that will fit more comfortably into a 70-minute movie.

If thats the case, the movie loses a few extra points with me.

You mean to say we saw the film the way it meant to be seen in its entirety? As I said in my original review of the DTV, I thought it jumped around a lot, and didn't explore certain chars enough, especially the so-called villain...a floating island from outer space?

I was so sure we were robbed by editing constraints and WB execs demanding the finished product be shorter.:shrug:

EDIT: These guys need to pay attention to their kids more (kids that watch full length anime films like Ninja Scroll or Vampire Hunter D "Bloodlust").

[FGfan]

Might I point out that Bender's Big Score was a DTV, and it got 89 minutes. Lot of the DTVs these days deserve at least that time, not a ridiculously short 70 min.

[RONDC20]

These films need to be longer. An extra 10 minutes would do wonders for many of these films.

Doctor Strange was 95 minutes long and I thought that it was a great running time. The Invincable Iron Man was 86 which is not too bad. I prefer my movies to be 90 minutes and above. I think that 90 minutes is a good running time for these types of animated films, anything below that and I feel a little cheated.

[Palin Dromos]

Doctor Strange was 95 minutes long and I thought that it was a great running time. The Invincable Iron Man was 86 which is not too bad. I prefer my movies to be 90 minutes and above. I think that 90 minutes is a good running time for these types of animated films, anything below that and I feel a little cheated.

Sorry to burst your bubble but "Doctor Strange" is only 73 (w/o credits).
The case says 95 min, but that's a misprint.

"Iron Man" is longer, as is "Bender's Big Score". I want to say that one reason that these flicks have slightly longer running times is that they make more extensive use if CGI elements. Many of the battles, and practically all of the Iron Man scenes in "IM" are CG as opposed to hand drawn.

I'm not a strict authority, but CG in these situations might be slightly cheaper, allowing for longer running times. Not to disparage CG animators, but key-frame animating can be less time-intensive than drawing every single frame. Granted CG takes time to render, but I don't think a render farmer isn't quite as expensive as a hand animator.

Just a theory.