Parallels between ROTJ and out of the past (spoilers from ROTJ)

[I.R Joey]

Anyone notice how similar the means of preservation between Ra's and the Joker are? The way they managed to survive by putting themselves in the body of another person. I understand that Paul Dini wrote both of them. Coincidence.

[Periphery]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
Anyone notice how similar the means of preservation between Ra's and the Joker are? The way they managed to survive by putting themselves in the body of another person. I understand that Paul Dini wrote both of them. Coincidence.

Yeah, I noticed this as well. The first time I saw ROTJ and how Joker came back, I simply said: "Hm." It was around the same time Out of the Past come out as well.

It seems that everybody from Bruce's time get's killed off save for Tim and Barb.

I thought a much better ending for "Out of the Past" was that Talia adapted her father's Persona after he died (for real). She would have been that much more a character for it.

Bliss

Alon

[freakboy86]

Yeah, but at least Bruce didn't kiss Joker! :D

"I'm back, tanned and rested and ready to give this town a wedgie again!"

[DR. BELCH]

I've mentioned in past posts that I believe Ra's used some variant on the "Lost Soul" computer genius' theories to resurrect himself. Now whether he only downloaded his "soul" (however one chooses to define that term) or had all/part of his actual fleshy brain grafted onto Talia's spinal cord I'm not sure...but it seems Joker took it a step further by figuring out how to implant himself on someone who isn't a blood relation--either on his own or using Ras' data--meaning it or he (she?) survived.
Which gets me into what I would've liked to see in the BB comics if the series had lived: the return of Ras/Talia. A dye job, a new name, and she could become the mistress of some foreign dignitary or potentate. While servicing his carnal needs, she's secretly manipulating him, using his money and power to weave a Macbethian scheme of world domination.

[freakboy86]

Here's another aspect to the Ras/Talia 'mind switch'. When Ras stole Superman's strength in 'Demon Reborn', what if he also, inadvertantly, stole some of the knowledge of Krypton that Superman gained thru the orb he stole from Brainiac. With that knowledge, or at least a glimmering of it, he may have been able to, over a 50 year period, devise a way to actually 'overwrite' his brainwaves into Talia's brain. Or, even worse, at the end of 'Demon', when Ras and Talia fall into the underground river, her mind may have sustained so much damage that Ras was forced to actually transplant his brain into Talia, both out of love for his daughter and, of course, as a way for him to live on. And with his new strength it's feasible that his mind would have survived the transplant as well as healing faster than normal due to Superman's strength in his body.

"We make a pretty good team, Bruce. Maybe we should make this a regular thing."
"Yeah, right."

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by freakboy86
Here's another aspect to the Ras/Talia 'mind switch'. When Ras stole Superman's strength in 'Demon Reborn', what if he also, inadvertantly, stole some of the knowledge of Krypton that Superman gained thru the orb he stole from Brainiac. With that knowledge, or at least a glimmering of it, he may have been able to, over a 50 year period, devise a way to actually 'overwrite' his brainwaves into Talia's brain. Or, even worse, at the end of 'Demon', when Ras and Talia fall into the underground river, her mind may have sustained so much damage that Ras was forced to actually transplant his brain into Talia, both out of love for his daughter and, of course, as a way for him to live on. And with his new strength it's feasible that his mind would have survived the transplant as well as healing faster than normal due to Superman's strength in his body.

Why I do like the whole Ra's gaining some knowledge from Supes in "The Demon Reborn" bit, (I find it interesting) the part where Ra's implants himself on Talia at that point doesn’t work. First I doubt that he even had the technology to perform such a feat at that point in time. Second, it was stated that the event happened just after the near apocalypse of '09 when the battle between Bats and Ra's left Ra's body so broken it was either plant his mind in someone else or die.

However I do think that there could be a tie between the way the Joker preserved himself and the way Ra's did.

The way I see it is that we don't know how long the power that Ra's drained from Supes lasted. Now at this point we don't know if the power that Ra's gained would allow him to use the pits to revive himself like he has relied on in the past. Now assuming that it does, at least for a for a few years, Ra's knows that eventually the power he stole from Superman will fade away and at some point he will no longer be able to use the pits either and he's back to square one. So he begins to develop the technology necessary to transplant his mind into another body. Now let's say Ra's has another confrontation with Superman (or even the Justice League, wouldn't this make a nice story for the upcoming JL series? :) ) in which Superman discovers the tech and hands it over to STAR labs for study. Next we toss in The Mad Hatter (who has admitted that he's stolen from STAR labs in the past) in to the mix. Hatter discovers the confiscated tech, makes some modifications which allows it to be used with his mind control devices.

Finally, at some point when both Hatter and the Joker are in Arkam, Joker (using his usually charm) is able to get the information about the technology from Hatter and thus uses it for his own needs and on our unsuspecting Tim. :(

It's my theory that if BB ever does get a fourth season or the rumored second BB movie, we may see a connection between RotJ and "Out of the Past" along these lines.

[freakboy86]

Man, I SO agree with the Mad Hatter prospect. I thought it would be so much better if Joker had said he stole the tech from Hatter or even Hugo Strange instead of just saying that he had stolen the equipment over the years. Joker, although a mad genius, never showed ANY interest in mind control/switching technology in any of his crimes.

[Flying Grayson]

I missed out of the past.
can someone tell me what happened in it.
I won't mind. I learned alot about ROTJ and when I bought it I like and was still intrigued by the story.

[DR. BELCH]

Originally posted by freakboy86
Joker, although a mad genius, never showed ANY interest in mind control/switching technology in any of his crimes.
There were those three comedians who were judges at the comedy show that the clown crashed. He brainwashed them into becoming superheroes of sorts using The Mad Hatter's technology. He even managed to get one on Hatter's neck somehow (I don't know, maybe he ambushed Hatter in the shower that morning) and knock him out. Now...if Joker had used those gizmos for something far bigger than a seedy tin cup, that would've been truly scary.
Also, his laughing gas was known to cause symptoms of schizophrenia after excessive exposure.

[freakboy86]

Oh, yeah. Forgot about that episode Dr.
And speaking of, that'd make a nice 4-pack as well! Joker, Condiment Man, and the other two (I forget their names in the show, but the ones modeled after Rossanne and Seinfeld)