will wrestlers ever be respected?

[langden alger]

latley i've been really glad to see alot more wwf threads popping up on this board..i finally get a combo of two of my favorite things. batman and pro wrestling..but of coarse, with the attention comes the usual: "it's fake, it's stupid it's pointless" etc, etc...i saw it coming of coarse...wrestling will never be fully accepted into the mainstream. and a part of me really loves that so much, because i've always made it a habit to love what the media and the in crowds look down they're nose at..and so, i check out the ross report and the long injuries list..i wait for my favorites to come back from severe injuries. i see botched moves, sick bumbs, scary falls, gashes and bruises..i see alot of dedicated talented people in those rings doing brutal scedules and hardly ever having any kind of life outside of the arenas...unless of coarse the fake moves they do somehow get them a rea l injury..then they can actually spend time at home..then i look and i see alot of people who snicker at the thought of even calling them close to athletes ...
and hey i'm not exactly here to play a violin for these guys. i understand that your rocks and your austins get paid more money than i'll ever see in my lifetime. i understand all that..aside from the money though there's something called respect.and i guess the sad fact is that wrestling will always really just be looked at as big stupid sweaty guys in they're underwear, running around pretending to punch each other...in the end, it'll always just be a stereotyped guilty little pleasure to most people...just once though, i'd like to be able to jump up on those high horses and look those people in the eye and have them actually admit to me that wrestlers are in fact athletes. that they deserve all the admiration and all the hype that fans like me give them..that it's not a just a bad male soap opera. it's actually written and produced with more care and creativity than half of the assembly line garbage on prime time right now..that talented wrestlers like the rock and kurt angle can act out dialogues,monologues and do live improvisation in front of cheering crowds better than half of the hottest "celebs" that are running hollywood right now..i'd like for people to finally just admit that for once..i know it'll never happen but it's really nice to dream.

thanks for letting me rant...your thoughts?

[Zorakfan]

Oh sure! A few of them are good actors! I'll admit that! I just find the whole setup of the programs despicable. It's just well, it's fake. It's obvious they aren't hitting each other, and when blows connect, little force is used. Sugar glass, Balsa wood, and 'soft concrete' all play part in the staging to make it more entertaining. Personally, I hate it, but yeah, basically it's just a play that revolves around grappling and grudges. Like Romeo and Juliet with more spandex and cursing.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

There is no soft concrete. I grant you that the tables and chairs may be "softer" than normal, but when they hit the floor outside the ring...that's it...it's the floor. There is gymnastic padding outside some of the rings, but when a guy gets flipped onto the floor into the crowd, it hurts. I've been to a live event, I heard the SLAP of a wrestler hitting the concrete in front of me, so there's pretty rough contact there.

Let's just say that some hits may be soft (punches, kicks) , but the thumbtacks are real (yes, I've seen some get body slammed into a bed of tacks...real tacks. Some spilled over to where I was sitting so I can guarantee you they were real tacks), and falling off the cage from 17 feet will hurt, even if the table they fall on is the "collapsing" kind.

[nightwing_38116]

Is it a "real" sport, NO. Are they athletes, HECK YES!!! Even if don't respect what they do, at least give them props for being athletes.

I think that athletes in general are given too credit when all they do is play games for a living. Please keep the "at least they're real" rhetoric to a minimum. Every sport has had its share of contreversy regarding its legitimacy. I know its fake. So is Batman, X-Files, ect. And just like sports, movies and everything else (this sometimes includes the news) IT'S ONLY ENTERTAINMENT.

[Zorakfan]

Soft concrete is a term given to a soft kind of foamy flooring. It's rather bouncy and will keep you from injuring yourself too badly. This is the kind of stuff they probably put in the 'back alley brawls' and locker rooms and stuff. I dunno, falling 17 feet down onto a table? There would be way more injuries and wrestlers whose careers are ruined by injuries. Other than that one guy who died (He fell because he wasn't harnessed in or something) I've yet to hear of any injury you couldn't get from participating in strenuous aerobics. If these people really were fighting, there would be a helluvalot more broken bones, bruises, and strains. Amazingly, they're all ok by the next fight/day/week whatever. Unless it's intregal to the storyline thing they have going. That's just how I feel though, and it'll take quite a number of concussions and contusions to convince me otherwise.

(edit) Yes nightwing, I consider them athletes too. I'd call em acrobats more than anything though.

(Edit 2) Jeez, nightwing, that avatar made me think you were belch. Swooky.

[nightwing_38116]

Wrestlers break bones and get concussions all the time. Inside fans who read Wrestling Observer, ect. would know this. They just don't advertise the injuries much. I have a friend who wrestles in the independent scene and he stays injured. Concrete floors are real!!! There are tons of injuries in wrestling and many times the guys just work through it.


GREAT IDEA!!! Read Mick Foley's "Have A Nice Day". It's a great book and gives insight into the wrestling business from a true and honest P.O.V. (for fans and non fans). He discusses his life and career and some of his injuries (there are a lot of them). :D

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Mick Foley--Retired at age 34 (or 33?). Back pains, concussions, one ear missing (torn off when head was stuck between ropes)

Shawn Michaels--Retired at age 33 (or 32?). Recurring back injury, spinal discs ruined.

Bret Hart--Retired because of head trauma from botched kick, occasional loss of memory.

Chris Benoit--Out for about 7 months already, nerve problems in the arm.

Triple H--Was out about 6 months. Quad/leg injury.

British Bulldog--Back injury.

Droz--Paralyzed in a wheelchair because of poorly executed piledriver. Happened in the ring, in front of audience. Has been out of wrestling for about 2 years now. Only does occasional commentary.

Pro-wrestling is not a risk-free sport. The soft punches and kicks are to minimize damage, but in no way do they not get hurt. All the injuries above are the accumulation of regular bumps, some botched moves, chair shots and other assorted unusual contact. The list goes on as well. I had a friend whose uncle was a WWF jobber for a few years. The guy quit because of all the concussions he was getting from chair shots and piledrivers. Sometimes he forgets his way home on simple errands and has to call his wife to pick him up from wherever he's calling, similar to why Mick "Mankind" Foley retired.

This begs the question why we want to watch men who are basically masochists. For me, I could care less about chair shots and big bumps. Wrestling fans like us who like excellent choreography, crisply executed moves that look sharp but in actuality do not injure and expert pacing are very few...a keen eye is able to tell these things.

Oh, and the kooky storylines can be amusing.

[Zorakfan]

Given, but professional acrobats get these kind of injuries too. Hard laborers get these kind of injuries at these ages. As far as I'm concerned, they're not really fighting, just performing physical feats to act out the story thing they have going, which centers around fighting.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Zorakfan
Given, but professional acrobats get these kind of injuries too. Hard laborers get these kind of injuries at these ages. As far as I'm concerned, they're not really fighting, just performing physical feats to act out the story thing they have going, which centers around fighting.

This is a more succinct definition that I would agree with. They are performers, but it is a physical performance that has a certain degree of risk in it like an acrobat.

I will definitely agree that they are "not really fighting," but to say that they go day in and day out without getting a scratch or a buildup of career threatening injuries is ridiculous.

[nightwing_38116]

It seems like we are constantly seeing wrestlers getting hurt time and time again. Wrestlers are having to take weeks and even months off in order to heel these injuries. Why are there so many injuries in pro wrestling today? Isn’t this supposed to be a fake sport? These guys don’t really hit hard do they? They all know how to land the right way don’t they? Well, you better think again! Wrestlers are laying their bodies on the line every single week and are doing stunts now that wrestlers in the past would not even think about. Why do they do they take all of these insane bumps?

We used to only see these crazy stunts in pay per views. Now, it seems like they are common tendencies on Raw and Smackdown. Fans love to see risky stunts and it seems to keep their attention and bring in higher TV ratings. We as fans are used to the high-risk moves and the death defying leaps. If the WWF tried to tame the product we are used to, it may seem even more boring and non-entertaining. The plus side to taming the product would be that we would see less injuries and the big named guys more active.

Having Jeff Hardy leap off of the top of a huge latter, Mick Foley thrown off the top of a cage, Shane McMahon thrown through glass twice at King of the Ring, wrestlers thrown through tables, “Chair Shots to the Cranium”, etc. All of these things are very entertaining indeed. But, is it worth it to risk bodily injury to some of your top stars such as Triple H, Stone Cold, Undertaker, Chris Benoit, and many others?

Another point that needs to be made is that even when wrestlers do get injured, most of them are not likely to take the time off that is needed in order to heal these injuries. Most wrestlers are afraid that if they take time off, they will be out of the loop and they will be forgotten if the show is able to go on without them. Wrestlers want to show the fans and management they are high commodity. I can’t seem to understand why wrestlers are not given time off by management in order to keep them healthy. These guys are on the road constantly and are always putting their body through physical and mental strain. It should be a requirement for wrestlers to take a few weeks off from time to time. This would keep the amount of injuries down and keep their bodies and minds fresh. Wrestlers should not take time off only when they are injured. It’s something Vince McMahon should think about.

Professional wrestlers do not get the credit they deserve. These guys go out and entertain us with some very serious injuries. They are extremely dedicated to their job and to the fans. They should be recognized for that dedication. Wouldn’t it be better to give wrestlers a vacation from time to time rather then have them be gone months at a time due to serious injuries. It may be possible to keep the insane bumps and death-defying moves if they are given appropriate time to rest their bodies. The bar has been raised for sports entertainment today. The stunts that we see make pro wrestling extremely entertaining. We get our kicks from seeing guys thrown from tall cages, fly from a tall latter, and get slammed through tables. That is great stuff!! But, it is time management put the wrestlers first and the fans second. Give the wrestlers the time off they deserve and do everything they can to keep them healthier.

Taken from an article I found. I couldn't find the author's name.

[Zorakfan]

Jojo, I perfectly agree with that statement. It's not real fighting, but it is a kind of entertainment centered around physical acts of derring-do, and yes, they can get hurt, but no one's ever been 'punched out' or seriously harmed intentionally in any way. When someone is injured because of fighting, it's because someone screwed up the choreography and got the full boot to the face.

[nightwing_38116]

Whoa, there have been times where guys have "gone into business for themselves" (wrestling term) and INTENTIONALLY beat the living crap out of someone in the ring. I've seen it several times just in the past 12 months. There are also many wrestlers who "work stiffly", which means they make contact and have injured other guys.

[Clayface]

I don't really consider "pro-wrestlers" athletes - more like stuntmen. In that regard, I'd say they probably don't get the credit they deserve. Other than that, I don't really care one way or another. I don't find the shows entertaining in the least - but then again, I don't find any sports shows entertaining.

[The Dork Knight]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
Mick Foley--Retired at age 34 (or 33?). Back pains, concussions, one ear missing (torn off when head was stuck between ropes)

Shawn Michaels--Retired at age 33 (or 32?). Recurring back injury, spinal discs ruined.


Actually Mick's ear was ripped of during a barbed wire match against "Vader" in WCW. He had 3/4th ripped off.

Shawn Michaels is thinking of making a return to the WWF's new "nWo" with a non-wrestling role.

- Foley Is Good

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Foley Is Good


Actually Mick's ear was ripped of during a barbed wire match against "Vader" in WCW. He had 3/4th ripped off.

Shawn Michaels is thinking of making a return to the WWF's new "nWo" with a non-wrestling role.

- Foley Is Good

According to Mick, he was doing his "hangman" routine and found himself stuck in the ropes. Struggling to get out, he literally yanked his head out, ripping part of his ear away.

I'd like to add that some wrestlers willingly take punishment in some cases. The tack incident for example, where Mick allowed himself to get slammed onto thumbtacks. No permanant injury, but you'd better believe it hurt.

[The Dork Knight]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
I'd like to add that some wrestlers willingly take punishment in some cases. The tack incident for example, where Mick allowed himself to get slammed onto thumbtacks. No permanant injury, but you'd better believe it hurt.

Yeah, I remember that. That happended to him at the Royal Rumble 00'. HHH pedigred him on a bunch of thumbtacks.

- Foley Is Good

[DarkAngel]

The best people to ask this to are the fans, and they'll always care. The fans are the ones that have seen the things the wrestlers have done, the commitment and heart they show in putting on a good show. That'll always be appreciated by those of us that watch. And ultimately, that's the opinion that matters the most. I think most fans have the utmost respect and appreciation for guys like Shawn Michaels and Mick Foley. And there are so many others today that have and continue to put so much into the business.

[langden alger]

thanks alot for all the support in this..that's the best point made so far darkangel..all that truly matters in wrestling in the end is the fans. just like with any form of entertaiment... without fans there is no wrestling.... .and as fars as the fans are concerned bret hart, ric flair, steve austin, chris benoit,hhh, the undertaker, shawm micheals...these guys are not acrobats. they're not stuntmen. they're wrestlers.

[nightwing_38116]

Point taken. If you're not a fan why should we care what they think of wrestling anyway?

[Clayface]

Originally posted by nightwing_38116
Point taken. If you're not a fan why should we care what they think of wrestling anyway?

Wow. If that doesn't sum up the "hardcore fanboy" attitude, I dont' know what does! :rolleyes:

[nightwing_38116]

Originally posted by Clayface


Wow. If that doesn't sum up the "hardcore fanboy" attitude, I dont' know what does! :rolleyes:

Well, we are hardcore fanboys. ;)

[Frosty]

As a lifelong Wrestling Fan you have to appreciated its technique and artistry. When they go into that ring a really good match will tell a story through and through. When you see Chris Benoit repididly softening up his opponent to lock on the Crippler Crossface, an excruciating hold , there's a scientific feel to it. Take Dean Malenko one the best technical wrestlers of the past decade. He doesn't Brawl senselessly locking on a bunch of cool manuevers. He moves slowly deliberately working over the opponents back and quadracepts in a maginificant display of chain wrestling so he can lock in the Texas Cloverleaf for the submission.
Even Brawling has storytelling elements to it. Irony, psychology, mindgames, brutality, and calculated risk taking are all used. One of the most brutal sights I take with me is Terry Funk vs. Ric Flair in a brutal "I Quit Match". Flair zeroed in on Funk's damaged legs and knees which had constantly plagued him his whole career to lock in the figure Four for 4 whole minutes before Funk gave in. As a life long Boxing Fan with a flair for sceintific matchups, you'll find just as much pagentry in the squared circle.