JL DVD aspect ratio thoughts

[whbinder]

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I didn't see any reference to it.
Does anyone know for certain if the upcoming Justice Leage DVD will be in fullscreen or widescreen? The packaging suggests fullscreen, but is a bit cryptic. Anyone have preferences either way?

Bill Binder

[Matt Hazuda]

Originally posted by whbinder
Sorry if this has been discussed before. I didn't see any reference to it.
Does anyone know for certain if the upcoming Justice Leage DVD will be in fullscreen or widescreen? The packaging suggests fullscreen, but is a bit cryptic. Anyone have preferences either way?

Bill Binder It will be presented it a full-frame aspect ratio. I prefer the widescreen version myself, but in this case the widescreen version is matted from the full frame version of the show. The creators said they prefered the WS version of the this, but unfotunaely only pan and scam is coming to DVD.

[Joe Wagner]

I agree - widescreen is the way to watch Justice League. I think the animators were completely right - it does give the show that epic feel. It's a shame WB didn't realize how much people enjoy widescreen over full screen.

-Joe!

[Heehaw]

Technically, it won't be a "pan and scan" version since there is no manipulation of the frame. It's simply a fullframe version. If the show were animated in true widescreen then you would have pan and scan.

[whbinder]

Originally posted by MDawg957
It will be presented it a full-frame aspect ratio. I prefer the widescreen version myself, but in this case the widescreen version is matted from the full frame version of the show. The creators said they prefered the WS version of the this, but unfotunaely only pan and scam is coming to DVD.

Thanks for the info. While we're on the subject, I assume the same will be true for "SubZero" being presented fullscreen. Anyone know for sure?

[Heehaw]

Subzero will be fullframe. There's a widescreen version available on laserdisc, though it's probably matted like JL and Phantasm.

[James Harvey]

Sub-Zero will indeed be full frame. The widescreen version was matted.

[warmachine04]

Originally posted by jjwspider
I agree - widescreen is the way to watch Justice League.

I don't know why they make such a big deal on widescreen presentation on the show and don't give a widescreen fromat on the DVD. It took a while for me watching movies in widescreen due to the black bars on the screen. After watching some widescreen presentations, I was just expecting that the upcoming DVDs will have this feature.

[Bird Boy]

Originally posted by Heehaw
Technically, it won't be a "pan and scan" version since there is no manipulation of the frame. It's simply a fullframe version. If the show were animated in true widescreen then you would have pan and scan.

yes indeedee..I don't like watching JL in "widescreen" as I know I'm missing animation (albeit nothing major, but I AM missing SOME of it). I'm glad that the DVD's in Full Frame...but I wouldn't mind if they included a widescreen version...

-BB

[Brian Cruz]

Yeah, they really should include both versions so everyone is happy. But if they can only include one, I can understand why they'd choose the fullscreen version. You can still make it widescreen by covering the top and bottom of the screen, or using the zoom feature if you have a widescreen TV.

[whbinder]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
Sub-Zero will indeed be full frame. The widescreen version was matted.

It was indeed, as are many films out of Hollywood. I still prefer the framing of the widescreen laserdisc, which it looks like I'll be holding onto for a bit longer.

No offense to the fullscreen version. But there's no reason both couldn't be included.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Bird Boy
yes indeedee..I don't like watching JL in "widescreen" as I know I'm missing animation (albeit nothing major, but I AM missing SOME of it). I'm glad that the DVD's in Full Frame...but I wouldn't mind if they included a widescreen version...

Me too. The whole reason that I got behind the widescreen format is because I don't like having the original scenes mangled in editing (into fullscreen). But with Justice League it's just the opposite--the fullscreen is the original and the widescreen is the edited version. I don't care if they're "supposed" to be seen in widescreen...I like the version that affords me the most picture.

[Horatio Hornblower]

the fullscreen is the original and the widescreen is the edited version

Wrong. The show is storyboarded in widescreen; thus that is the original version. The parts that appear under the black bars are added after the fact. It's tacked on as an afterthought. It's purpose and very existence is to appease Cartoon Network.

[JTurner954]

Justice League isn't widescreen?? BOO!!!

[Heehaw]

They draw a 4x3 square, add letterbox bars within that square and create the composition within the widescreen area. Sure they flesh it out into a 4x3 fullscreen piece, but the actual composition is worked out with a rectangle in mind. It's not a true 16x9 storyboard, but it is the same effect. The art that lies outside of the rectangle is of little consequence from a composition point of view.

This is how it's been done since Batman Beyond. You can see examples of storyboards done this way on the ROTJ DVD in the deleted scenes section. Phantasm and Subzero were also storyboarded within a simulated 16x9 matte.

If you compare a movie/show that has been shot in true widescreen and letterboxed on a normal TV, and you take a matted widescreen show like JL that is shown letterboxed on a normal TV, then it doesn't matter how the WS was achieved(true WS or matting). Provided the two shows are the same aspect ratio, both of them will take up the same amount of screen space on the TV. With that in mind, the creators of JL are simply faking the 16x9 effect on a 4x3 area. If one creates a composition with a rectangle space in mind, then it doesn't matter if it is "shot" as a rectangle or "shot" WITHIN a square and later masked off. Widescreen is widescreen, no matter how it is achieved. Just ask Stanley Kubrick, if he were alive that is. ;)

http://idisk.mac.com/nothing_/Public/storyboard.jpg

If you take the 16x9 storyboard and scale it down, proportionally, to fit within the black bars of the JL storyboard(and it will fit perfectly without distortion), then you're getting the same information, only in a matted area. Widescreen is widescreen no matter how you create it.

Ideally, WB should have provided an anamorphic widescreen version of the show, so one could watch it without black bars on a widescreen TV. They would simply anamorphically enhance the rectangular portion and crop the black bars. They would also want to provide a letterboxed version for those who want the WS but don't have a 16x9 TV. Actually, with DVD I'm not sure if they provide both a LBX AND an anamorphic version or not. Maybe there is only an anamorphic version that is somehow proportionally squashed when one has to watch it letterboxed. Some widescreen DVDs aren't anamorphic, so I don't know.

Some people say they can use a zoom feature, on a widescreen TV to simulate the WS effect, but if the transfer isn't anamorphic all you are doing is cropping the 4x3 transfer and graining up(i.e. pixelating) the picture which means reduced picture quality.

[Heehaw]

I would love to ask Kubrick why he preferred open matte to frame his shots. I recall he wanted the viewer to see what he saw in his viewfinder

I always heard he was a real control freak and did it so that when his films went to video and TV they would not be slaughtered when reformatted to fit the screen. All that had to be done was to use the original, open matte fullscreen, so no panning and scanning was required. I have a feeling that is why JL is matted instead of true WS. If the widescreen broadcasts ever ceased, we/they wouldn't have to worry about the shows being reformatted. Plus it's probably more economical.


Right, but you cannot reverse the process because it's composed for 4x3 with a matte. So, widescreen is not always widescreen... in this case JL is losing composition detail because they have to frame their "widescreen" shots inside the 4x3 ratio.

Isn't it possible to anamorphically enhance the matted portion so that it could be viewed in true widescreen on a 16x9 TV? I remember alot of critics were wondering if The Sopranos(which is matted WS I believe) was going to be anamorphic when the first season boxed set came out. That would suggest to me that it could be done. Of course, if Sopranos is filmed in 16x9, and shown letterboxed on HBO, I guess that would blow that theory out of the water.