Batman: Gotham Adventures...Part of Continuity?

[DisneyBoy]

Ok y'all!

A wise poster once said that we each have to power to chose what we consider to be Batman "continuity". Some people follow the movies, others the mainstream comics and some mix continuities, depending on which tales they feel are "worthy" of being considered part of the legend of the Bat. So here's a question Jim Harvey and I are wondering...

Do you consider the tales in Batman: Gotham Adventures to be part of the real Batman: The Animated Series/The New Batman Adventures continuity?

Personally, I pick the stories I think actually happened. Which of the tales do you think should count? All of them? Some of them? None of them?


:confused:

[DisneyBoy]

Yikes! No responses as of yet!



Well, I, personally, began taking the stories with a grain of salt after since Templeton left. I think that was the biggest change that the book ever suffered. After his last issues, the quality and originality of the stories quickly vanished. I can still remember being pysched about the "Ra's Al Ghul in Canada" story, but it ended up being some strange oil-collecting, Ra's-in-a-castle story...
So, I don't really take the past, oh, forty issues that seriously. But Templeton's run, which I at first couldn't really appreciate because I was against the change from B:TAS to TNBA, was gold compared to the "same old, same old" as Salvor put it so well.

Your thoughts are...?

[TimTwoFace]

For better or worse, I consider everything in the animated style to be in the "animated continuity" - there has yet to be an officially declared animated elseworlds tale.

I seem to like Peterson more than most others here, but Ty the Guy was far superior, hands down. Only a few of Peterson's best stories are on par with Ty's consistant run. His stories are still readable and all that, but too many of them are, as said in the thread that spawned this one, too juvenile. I don't mind a good story with a simple plot and simple, cute twist at the end - those little quirky things are one of the things that make the animated books good.

Conversely, you have to do such things in MODERATION. It's been a long time since we've had a good story without a "clever twist" at the end - or even a not-so-pleasant end. Recall BGA#45 - fun issue - and we're trying to find out who has kidnapped Dr. Leland from within Arkham. Good premise. Good mystery. But it's destroyed when it's revealed that the COOK did it, because he felt unappreciated - and was able to get some of the inmates on his side because they loved his cooking.

Geez, man, that's just silliness, especially coming out of left field like that. This is the problem with this title, now - the story ideas are fine, but they're not defined. *HUFF*

Tim Levins' art is good - I don't see how it's not in the animated style - did anyone read SUPERMAN ADVENTURES lately (before it got canned)??? I'm just getting a wee bit sick of the multiple splash-page openings in EVERY ISSUE. It's become a trademark of the series, yes, but it takes up valuable storytelling time; I don't read GOTHAM ADVENTURES to see Batman punch some lowly thug once in a battle and take 6 pages to depict its every detail from every angle.

And hopefully, not all the stories will be happy endings. The decent issue, BGA#44 (the recent Two-Face issue) left on a bittersweet note where we are left to think about why Batman would leave an injured comrade behind in order to stop a villain from escaping. If the stories had darker, more philosophical slants to them, that would be a step in the right direction.

This series can so easily be changed to be fabulous again. Hopefully they'll do just that. GOTHAM ADVENTURES has been lucky to stay off the chopping block, so it had better take advantage of this second chance to better itself.

-Tim

[King Ryan7708]

I say this, they are in continuity, well most, but the TV show comes first. If it messes up something that happened on the TV show, then no, it is out of continuity.

For Example: In that early BB issue with the Royal Flush Gang and their evil twins, we see Ace is a human, but on the show, he was a robot. So that issue is out of continuity.

[TimTwoFace]

Oh, that "ROYAL FLUSH TWINS" issue was pathetic. I tend to write off the entire BATMAN BEYOND comic series anyways - it was never terribly good.

-Tim

[James Harvey]

I agree with Tim here. I wroter off almost the entire Batman Beyond comic, especially #18 - Blight's return. There were a few issues that worked. I actually enjoyed the last four or five issues, so I count those :) As for Gotham Adventures I don't count the ones that counter-act what happened in an animated episode. Any Scarface story I ignore becuase he was cured. I consider Double Take to be the end for that character, so I don't count any other stories, unless the writer can work it to make it work. Basically any story from the early 20's on I've essentially "ignored" you could say, except for a couple here and there.

[Joker85]

I consider some of the Batman Gotham Adventures atories as continuity, but not any one in the last 20 or so issues. Now, I considered ALL of the Batman Adventures comics part of official continuity.

[Russkafin]

The old school "Batman Adventures" title, from the B:TAS days, had an issue guest-starring Superman that came out long before the Superman animated series did. Supes had long hair, and Lex Luthor was the red-headed australian "Lex Jr." version. Oops. Guess that ain't in continuity, huh, kids?? :)

[Samhaine]

Most of Peterson's run, I don't think of it in continuity. And I never expected the writers of the show to follow the comics. But I loved Batman Adventures, especially the Hugo Strange 3-parter that closed out the series (probably one of my favorite 'animated' story), and all of Batman & Robin Adventures was good too (we had Dini and Ty writing this title, with art by Ty was well....could it get any better?). And then Ty leaves GA, and we get Peterson. It was like when Millar left Superman Adventures. I still read it, but it's not on the top of my pile, not even close.

[CadaverousEyes]

I "flipped through" the Batman: Gotham Adventures TPB once and didn't care for any of the stories, except for the one with Grant Walker, so no, I don't consider them part of the animated continuity.

[James Harvey]

Stories that go against the animated episodes are ones that I don't consider to be in continuity as well. If they defy or screw up something on an episode, then I just chuck the story aside. Granted, it may be a great read but if it doesn't fit, then it doesn't fit.

[DisneyBoy]

Soemtimes, it's not as simple for me as "if it doesn't contradict the show - it's in". For example, I really enjoyed the way Selina Kyle was handled in Batman Returns. Her TNBA counterpart was aweful until Templeton's story in issue #4, which sort of made up for the terrible new hair and over-simplified features. Still, if the whole "Batman no longer respects Catwoman" story develops into something interesting in Gotham Adventures (perhaps in #50), then I may fully accept that piece of the history of Catwoman as being "in continuity"- that is, my continuity. Another part of my continuity includes the backstory from BR in which Selina's boss tries to kill her and she freaks, breaking free of her goody-goody image to become a creature of the night, with a fractured psyche. So, I guess I choose on a case-by-case basis what I believe to be truely a part of a character. For Catwoman, Batman Returns and B:TAS both play a part.

[Nightflower]

I have a simple system- if the series is crap, it's not considered part of continuity. If it's well done, it is. :)

[James Harvey]

Disneyboy, I'm confused. You consider the movie and comic continuity to be the same thing? But...they aren't the same conintinuity. Then again..you did say it was your continuity. :)

[Trent Lane]

The first fifteen issues or so of Batman: Gotham Adventures were what they should've been, right out of the show. Then Peterson came and things just don't stick quite as close anymore. #45 is lining our birdcage now, minus the brilliant cover by Cooke of course. He just lacks that "umph" it takes to write like the TNBA crew did. And Levins art is okay, but not really B:TAS/TNBA style. What this book needs is a shot of Paul Storrie, Ty Templeton (again), Rick Burchett (which we'll get a little of), Bob Smith, Paul Dini (? I know, a longshot, but it'd be cool), and Craig Rousseau. A major creative team shake-up can't hurt this book now, I don't think. It will likely never happen though, sadly.... :(

[DisneyBoy]

...You see, when I think of characters in my head, like Two-Face or Selina, I don't count all of the stories/episodes/films that featured them - If I really like something, it becomes part of why I love the character and who I think the character really is....

Take Paul Dini for example. When he and the other writers from B: TAS sat down to start building a show, they looked at all the incarnations of the characters, selected what they thought were the best/most defining traits and storylines and re-incorporated them into B:TAS. Pretty much the best of all the worlds...

So, no, I don't have a television show ( :D ) but I still only count certain parts of Selina's history as actually being part of who she is - and who Catwoman is to me. The "Cult of the Cat" episode is nothing more than mild entertainment to me - I don't consider it part of who she is. Same for Catwoman's liason with Penguin in Batman Returns...On the other hand, the scene where Shrek kills Selina, the ball scene where Bruce and Selina kiss and realise who they both are, as well as the final confrontation are all part of my favorite Catwoman moments. They are what make me love her! Same for the Bruce/Selina interaction in "The Cat and the Claw Part One" and The Batman Adventures #2...these are the best Catwoman tales I've ever read...and they are who Catwoman is...to me .


As for actual TNBA continuity, I hardly consider Peterson's tales part of the mix. To me, his stories are comparable in depth to those you'd read on the back of a cereal box. The first year of Gotham Adventures featured some stories that propelled the characters forward in a natural direction - and I think they should have been episodes in the show. They count in TNBA...

...the stuff we've been reading isn't. In fact, I think we only read it out of default - where else can we get our B: TAS fix???

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Originally posted by Russkafin
The old school "Batman Adventures" title, from the B:TAS days, had an issue guest-starring Superman that came out long before the Superman animated series did. Supes had long hair, and Lex Luthor was the red-headed australian "Lex Jr." version. Oops. Guess that ain't in continuity, huh, kids?? :)

I was going to metion that if nobody else did. They messed that one up big time...plus the return of Blight in the Batman Beyond comics was just plain stupid.

[Trent Lane]

Blight's return could have been handled so much better- or not at all. The Batman Beyond series was hit and miss, more miss really. The mini-series was actually pretty good, but the regualr series was far from stellar. I'd say only a few issues stick out in my mind: #1, #5(for the cover if nothing else), #13, #15, #23, and #24(suprise!)... I really wanted to like the JLU two-parter, but no Supes made the difference. As for the Superman appearance in TBA #25, well, there a lot messed up there. They seem to know who each are, while as far as the show goes they don't know each others identity till the end of the first part. Hmm, I guess TBA guys wanted an excuse to have an animated Superman in the book, and by no means was it bad, it was actually pretty good, as was about every other issue of this series...

I think the thing that make The Batman Adventures so much better was the stories, art, and the guest appearnces. Anarchy, Superman, several Batgirl/Robin issues, and many of the Rogues gallary of whom we haven't seen since either at all or very much, like the Ninja, Maxie Zeus, Killer Croc, Scarecrow, and so on... It'd be nice to see some of those characters again, especially if they got the right person to write them. Could you imagine another two or three parter like the Scarecrow story from early on in TBA run? That was awesome....

[Cyclops]

I've considered all but a few stories that weren't written by Petterson part of the conitinuity, and just a few of Petterson's part of conitinuity. :yakko: :wakko: :dot:

[Samhaine]

The thing with Batman Adventures #25 was that it was made before there was even a concept for the Superman show. In fact, they were still make new eps of BtAS at the time. They didn't want to totally reinvent the character, writing a long history (I mean, the origin for the animated Supes took 3 eps!) so they just assumed he was around for awhile. It's the same kinda concept as was used in Adventures of the DCU.

[James Harvey]

I don't consider Batman Adventures #25 or Batman Adventures #12 continuity, but they are still good reads. Luthor looked real weird in that episode, given his current mainstream design at the time (beard and long hair), and dismissed it rathar quickly. Most of the Peterson issues don't seem to establush any continuity anyways, which sorta bugs me. As I mentioned before, I consider Ventriloquist to be cured after Double Talk, and I dislike seeing him used over and over.

[Samhaine]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
As I mentioned before, I consider Ventriloquist to be cured after Double Talk, and I dislike seeing him used over and over.
Furthering that, have you noticed how Peterson has picked up the DCU Scarface's inability to pronounce the letter "B", when before he started writing (including while he was editing the book) Scarface could say "Batman" all he wanted without it sounding like "Gatman"? Yeah, Peterson has really been bugging me lately...

And if I remember correctly (concerning issue #12, issue #4[Scarecrow], etc) the writers for the Batman Adventures weren't given much in the way of how the stories were going to play out in BtAS. They were given an episode bible, some character designs (including the second Scarecrow design, not the first) and were told to do a miniseries. But, it had good writing, so those little inconsistencies could be overlooked.