Politics and the Cafe...take 2!

[Captain Zechs]

So, with the success of the Election thread, I really think it is possible that we expand upon Politics within the Cafe. I mean, nobody in that thread has gotten out of line, people have brought up excellent arguments, and don't just go out of their way to bash a particular candidate. I find it especially important to possible expand upon Politics because this is an election year, and to broaden everyone's views, but that is just my opinion I suppose.

Were strict rules needed? Yeah, but that is needed with any experiment going on, so people learn the boundaries early on, as to not break them later. Maybe I am asking for a bit much, but I really feel the Election Talkback shows that the members of Tz can handle themselves when it comes to Politics, and anyone who can't...well, they deal with the consequences and learn otherwise.

(And yes Harley, you have permission to beat me with a bat :sweat: )

Edit: My text always turns out so weird when I copy and paste it from word...

[DarthGonzo]

LOL you spend way too much time hanging out in the Feedback forum, man.

I think the Election thread is going as smooth as it is because the rules are as strict as they are. Loosen the reins and I'll bet it'll turn into a headache.

[Captain Zechs]

LOL you spend way too much time hanging out in the Feedback forum, man.

I think the Election thread is going as smooth as it is because the rules are as strict as they are. Loosen the reins and I'll bet it'll turn into a headache.

Or maybe you don't spend enough time...

And as I mentioned before, yeah, the rules would need to keep being strict, but I don't think that is to much to ask for.

[GWOtaku]

Zechs, you may be right, but if I might point one thing out: The election thread does well in large part because there's a lot of analysis on how we think it is going and will go. It has been as much or more about the political process and the campaign race itself than political issues. Some opinions have been stated but everyone knew ideological arguments weren't allowed. I'm not so sure the level of discourse would be the same if boundaries were expanded and people start to debate whether candidate X is unacceptable, or whether policy Y will effectively ruin the country if it's implemented.

I personally enjoy respectful and substantive political discussion, and that's certainly a rare commodity on the internet. That said, while the people in the election thread have handeled themselves very well, there's inevitably going to be issue discussions that get contentious. It's too much to expect or demand otherwise. So if it is ever allowed, it had better be with the realization of that fact. Ultimately the biggest political disagreements are disagreements of principle, and as people we will have strong feelings about them.

If a theoretical next step were to be taken, my suggestion would be a single thread for political discussion with zero tolerance for flame wars, zero tolerance for mad rants, and zero tolerance for quoting someone's post and stopping every one or two sentences to retort with one-liners or snide remarks. A thread for simple debate, not a glorified version of some blog's comments section.

Do that, and you might have something sustainable. I'm not saying I recommend this, I'm on the fence about it myself. But if the mods did decide to do it, I think that's the way. What you can't do is make it open season, because if you do that politics will dominate half of the TZ Cafe in no time.

[Captain Zechs]

You raise an interesting point. There is no way that we should expect to make Politics a complete greenlight, it needs to be a slow expanding process, that way the chance of success would be higher and such.

[Matt Hazuda]

The more unfocused the politics talk get, the more you go into the dangerous territory where tempers flare and irrational statements are made.

Could it work? Sure, but as you said it'll have to be done slowly and carefully, if the mods decide they want to expand the experiment.

Honestly this seems like a discussion that would've been better-suited in the Cafe itself and not the feedback forum, since those mods are the ones who will be making the decision, if it isn't up to the cabal at the top.

[J'onn J'onzz]

Haha, this again? I agree with GWOtaku. If we try more threads with more lenient rules, chances are that politics will be banned again due to what happened last time they were allowed repeating itself.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

I don't even bother with the Café anymore but can we make sure politics stay there? Completely? I've come to the point in my life that I'd rather just not no anyone's politics because there's always the chance of people taking it too personally.

[The Penguin]

More as a participant in the election thread rather than as a mod I must say that I love the thread we have now, but feel anything else would be detrimental for some of the reasons that GWOtaku mentioned for the thread's success. I enjoy the discussion of the primary/electoral process and you can do that with respect. Heck I enjoy talking politics more with someone of the opposite party than my own because the conversation is inherently more interesting (provided that person is as open and respectful as I am ).

No one on the internet (not to mention in person) is going to convince anyone else to change their views on abortion, gay rights, the right to bear arms or the war in Iraq and so "discussions" about those issues are bound to messy and disrespectful with several willingly yelling at a wall. I never enjoyed going to the Cafe during the times these threads were there spinning out of control and then repeating.

At the very least in the primary season I think posters of all viewpoints can enjoy discussing and analyzing the process. I know I'm having a great time with it. You open up these other areas again and I envision it going poorly very quickly as well as hurting the thread that made some think it would work on a broad scale with the same kind of garbage.