DCAU Batman and The Question versus Death Note (Spoilers)

[Anubis C. Soundwave]

Had to get this scenario out of my head.

Now granted, the anime(Death Note) already has a fine set of detectives(most notably L), but how would Light fare against the Question and the World's Greatest Detective?


While Light has a deadly "talisman" of sorts(the Note), Batman's been pretty sharp so far; and other than R'as al Ghul(and possibly Commissioner Gordon--who'd be a pretty good analogue to Light's dad), no one's been able to deduce his secret identity. The Question's blank face *is* a mask.

Keep in mind that this is a "what if" scenario that's not Goku fights Superman. Rather, this is another DC Comics vs Shonen Jump fight, "...a battle of wits".

Scenario:

By mysterious means(which I leave to you all), Batman and the Question end up in (Death Note's)Japan.[for the purposes of this exercise, Batman & the DCAU doesn't exist in the DN universe as real or fictional individuals.]

Perhaps L observes Batman and the Question (each)independently investigate the Kira case; which adds another wrinkle, another layer: L will probably want to discover who these masked/faceless vigilantes are.

Also, Light will try to learn the DC duo's identities.

But mostly(as this is a DCAU speculation thread) I'd like to see from better minds than mine how Batman and the Question would handle the Kira case.

= = =

IMHO:

Batman would have already learned of L's wiretapping, and found a way to access the video himself. He also would have questioned L.

The Question might have been able to save the life of this woman:

Naomi Misura. He's pretty intuitive.

Both experienced detectives could have picked Light as a suspect early on, much like L did,but they have to dig up proof.

Heck, the two American detectives would probably still want to get to the bottom of the Kira case for their own reasons.

Namely, that thirteen FBI agents were murdered.

The wild card, of course, is Ryuk: he wouldn't want these two detectives spoiling his "entertainment".

Ryuk would offer the SHINIGAMI EYES again.

Another character that could cause trouble for both the DC heroes, L and Light is Lex "I want to be a god" Luthor.(In Light's case, HE will be the world's new god.

But considering the end of "Destroyer", it's difficult to imagine Luthor in a new scenario like this. Then again(per "Question Authority"), A is A; and Luthor is Luthor: in the DN universe, Light Yagami is(psychologically) probably the Lex Luthor archetype minus the massive wealth.

Alternately, Lex might try to "take the boy" under his wing; show him how to *really* use the Note. The risk with that is that Light would learn quickly and kill Luthor--unless Luthor had enough sense to use an alias and disguise(although in this scenario--as w/Batman and Question--there is no Lex Luthor, fictional or real, in the DN universe).

More than likely, though, Lex would try to befriend Light just long enough to gain his trust and get access to the Note--then Light dies because Lex wrote the younger genius' name in said Note.

= = =

For those who don't know, Death Note comes on every Saturday on [ adult swim ]. It's a psychological thriller and match of wits between two young geniuses.

The titular McGuffin Talisman of the series is a simple black notebook filled with blank pages that never run out. While there are rules to using the
Death Note, basically you write down the name of someone you want to kill(with a picture of the victim in your mind).

Light's goal is to be the god of a perfect, crime-free world, which he intends to create through various killings as Kira.(*I didn't spoilerbox this one as a cursory search on Wikipedia would turn up the same.*

Put on your thinking caps for this one. :)

[ROBOTRON]

:sweat: - Ok, I've got to watch this death note now...thats all I hear everyone talking about on the boards.

[Anubis C. Soundwave]

It's been in my head for a bit: what if Light ended up in the DCAU(Timmverse) somehow? Some Gotham City criminals would be dropping like flies of inexplicable causes....

such as heart attacks, for example.

Light would still have to contend with Batman, the Question and Lex Luthor.

= = =

And yes, animation fans, it's probably best if you watch a bit of Death Note(or at least spoil yourself with Wikipedia. But it's strongly recommended that you either watch it Saturday @ 11:30p on [ adult swim ], or catch the Friday night preview at [ adult swim ]'s website.

= = =

Either of the above scenarios: I'd like your speculations on it.

[Wolf Boy2]

What's with all the spoiler tags? That's just general stuff that anyone who has seen the first episode of Death Note would know. Nothing hush-hush like you made it seem.

[Master Toon]

I don't think it's a question of whether Light could fare against The Question but if he can escape him. Take L, he knows it's Light but he's doesn't react. While Question would probably break into his house, beat Light up and find the Notebook. Sure he broke several laws just then but at least he caught Light.

[Wolf Boy2]

L would probably have already made a case out of unmasking Batman. I'm sorry, but the DCAU characters like Batman and Question couldn't exist in the more realistic world of Death Note. All L would have to do is track Batman's airplane back to the side of the cliff BELOW WAYNE MANOR. Unmasking Batman would be a no-brainer for L.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

L would probably have already made a case out of unmasking Batman. I'm sorry, but the DCAU characters like Batman and Question couldn't exist in the more realistic world of Death Note. All L would have to do is track Batman's airplane back to the side of the cliff BELOW WAYNE MANOR. Unmasking Batman would be a no-brainer for L.

Heck, if L existed in the same world as Bruce Wayne they'd probably have been classmates or something. :p

[Aldrius]

You know, I never thought about this before, but the only time incriminating evidence has ever come up is with Lex Luthor, with everyone else it seems to always just be assumed that they were bad.

Though I guess with most of the Batman villains they ARE crazy... and so they're sent to an asylum... yeah...

[Hordesman]

I'm curious as to how far you can push the DN parameters. Say, if you hack into government computers and change your name in their records before the DN starts working on you... or if something like aspirin can hold off the effects of a DN-triggered heart attack.

I think it's a simple matter of bringing in a telepath like J'onn though. Light's got this stuff on the brain all the time. Of course, he's going to try and work around that, if he's aware of such things. It'd be kinda funny if Anarky or Mxy got involved in this, though.

[Master Toon]

Unmasking Batman would be a no-brainer for L.

Not to bash Batman or anything but lots of people should have connected the dots and don't get me started on Superman and his wonderful disguise (a pair of glasses).

[creativerealms]

One way I always pictured Batman going after Light would be after a series of Batman's Villains start dying of heart attacks batman Figures they have a connection to similar crimes happening in Japan and starts to investigate. After awhile he approces L and starts and learns about the Kira case. While Batman does not join with L's investigation he starts an investigation of his own.

Now an added piece to how I think the story would go is the addition of the Joker. Here is a killer who has no identity even to himself. It's possible that even with Shinigami eyes his identity would be unknown. Add to this that if Joker touched a piece of paper from the death not and started seeing Ryuk Joker would love it. Joker would head to Japan at the same time batman does and really push Lights limits in ways no one else could.

Yes if Deathnote and Batman existed in the same world L would have figured out who Batman is, yet at the same time Batman would have figured out who L is. I would see that if they existed in the same world they probably worked together on cases and respect each other enough to keep the others identity a secret.

As for the Question especially DCAU Question well he would probably jump to the conclusion that Kira has the power of a Shinigami or god of death light from the start. Also he would find out Light was watching TV during the overly dramatic chip eating session because he digs though people's trash.

[Master Toon]

One way I always pictured Batman going after Light would be after a series of Batman's Villains start dying of heart attacks batman Figures they have a connection to similar crimes happening in Japan and starts to investigate. After awhile he approces L and starts and learns about the Kira case. While Batman does not join with L's investigation he starts an investigation of his own.

Now an added piece to how I think the story would go is the addition of the Joker. Here is a killer who has no identity even to himself. It's possible that even with Shinigami eyes his identity would be unknown. Add to this that if Joker touched a piece of paper from the death not and started seeing Ryuk Joker would love it. Joker would head to Japan at the same time batman does and really push Lights limits in ways no one else could.

Cool ideas although I bet Joker would lay the Joker Gas on Light just to be safe.

[Hordesman]

Cool ideas although I bet Joker would lay the Joker Gas on Light just to be safe.

Or send Harley disguised as Misa to do it. :D

[creativerealms]

Problem with Harley is her identity and face will not be hard for Light to find. There is a chance that Light will kill her long before that happens.

[Hordesman]

Problem with Harley is her identity and face will not be hard for Light to find. There is a chance that Light will kill her long before that happens.

If we're talking about a sneak attack... I mean, that is the Joker's best shot here. If the Joker's tailing Light and he's aware of it, I think he'd make for a crowded place like Shibuya or something. Light is a meglomaniac and totally cool with killing anyone who'd compromise his identity or get in his way. On top of his high sense of self-preservation. It's be a blast to see Light and the Joker fight... a huge, twisted fight full of civilian casualities. But the Joker's got to feel jealous that Light's got three sad-sack groupies to Joker's one.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Assuming this is Part II Light he'd probably have Mikami use his Shinigami eyes on 'im to get his name. :p

[Anubis C. Soundwave]

As for the spoiler boxes, ROBOTRON hadn't seen the series yet. Believe it or not, not everyone in Toon Zone has seen Death Note yet.

Keep the speculations flying.

I'll also add another wrinkle to this topic: what if Vandal Savage was involved? Can an immortal character like him be killed by the DN?

= = =

And more questions:

Although really, I was thinking that if the DN universe were merged with the DCAU, the Kira case would be investigated mainly by non-superpowered individuals.

Though if "Clark Kent" pulled a Koki Tanakabara, standing against the Kira killings(or rather, Misa's Stupid Stunt :D), I think Light would be dealing with an angry Kal-El(real name, although he thinks of himself as Clark). Surely Light wouldn't just write "Superman" in the DN and expect said Man of Steel to drop dead of a heart attack--unless in the DN Light specifies that there's enough kryptonite near him to kill a Kryptonian elephant and learns of Superman's Kryptonian name.(Which would be highly unlikely, and even if this is the case, usually Supes just brings a lead battle suit to the party.

At the very least, Superman wouldn't allow this killer vigilante to continue his spree. I'm just saying that with the rules of the DN, snatching off Supes' glasses will not be enough; while Light would(if the DN universe was part of the DCAU) know that Superman's from Krypton, he wouldn't know the Kryptonian name. The quandary at this point is whether Superman's "real name" would be the real name his biological alien parents gave him(Kal-El), or the real-to-Superman name bestowed on him by his adoptive Earth parents. It'd be very easy for Light to "unmask" Superman, but which of the Man of Steel's real names should Light write in the DN to kill Superman?

More to the point, Light would have to work VERY FAST against someone who's "faster than a speeding bullet", has X-ray vision, and would have noticed the tiny TV set inside the Dreaded Potato Chip Bag of DOOM.

It'd be an interesting challenge for Light indeed; as Superman/Clark/Kal-El is no slouch in the "battle of wits" department.[THE LATE MR. KENT, anyone?]

Aside from that, I'd like the charas of DN to contend with the detectives and general mortals in the DCAU. Maybe the Flash. J'onn, while a detective, has mind-reading powers and would be ineligible for this case. Maybe it's a showcase for non-metahumans and the like.

One way to get the ball rolling is if, after giving birth to (future!) Warhawk, Shayera Hol(formerly Hawkgirl) dies of a heart attack. Light decided to DN her because of her role in the Thanagarian invasion; he has not forgiven her for that betrayal. Keep in mind that when Death Note started(anime time/2007), he was a teenager in high school/about to start college; the Invasion happened in 2004 or 2005.

Between her death, the dead FBI agents; and random criminal deaths throughout Gotham City, Central City, Metropolis and the like: the metahumans and superpowered JLU members would want to join in, but the "normal" JLU-ers would prevail. I might throw in Black Canary since her voice is her only metahuman power--everything else is plain old ass-kicking martial arts training.

A good reason for Batman to be involved would have to be a personal reason that has a criminal element: Two-Face, aka Harvey Dent. Consider that we don't see Harvey D. at all during Batman Beyond. Light may have DN'd Two-Face.

This would also highlight the name and face quandary that I mentioned with Superman. In Batman's case, his real name is Bruce Wayne: but in Batman's mind, Bruce is the disguise; Batman the real self. Bruce Wayne, the actual person, died when his parents were murdered by Random Gotham Crook A.

An obvious question to consider also is that Batman and Light are vigilantes with a strong sense of justice. Batman respects the law and puts his life on the line to aid law enforcers in keeping the peace; furthermore, Batman will not kill criminals. Light has no interest in maintaining order; he wants to remake the world in his idealized image, and considers himself the upcoming god in his freshly-created New World Order.(Which is why I dragged in Luthor: the bald businessman also wants to be a god. "There can be only one, Light....") There would be conflict as Light wants to cleanse a "corrupt" world; in Light's mind: L, Batman, the Question, Superman et al--they're in the way of his glorious goals. Batman agrees with some of Light's goals(ridding the world of crime), but the means(murder by DN) are unacceptable.(Batman would probably judge the various Shinigami the same way.)

[Just call this a case of crossover fever.]

[Wolf Boy2]

IDK. Death Note really fizzled for me anyway after the second series. The new theme music sucked and the lack of certain characters also sucked. Telling a story from the villain's prospective seldom works (although Macbe--, I mean "The Scottish Play" did a good job of it, Death Note wasn't written by Shakespeare).:shrug:

I was a big Death Note fan watching it on Adult Swim, but when I skipped ahead to the yet-unreleased Japanese episodes ... it made me realize why I like the DCAU's storytelling style better.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

IDK. Death Note really fizzled for me anyway after the second series. The new theme music sucked and the lack of certain characters also sucked. Telling a story from the villain's prospective seldom works (although Macbe--, I mean "The Scottish Play" did a good job of it, Death Note wasn't written by Shakespeare).:shrug:

I was a big Death Note fan watching it on Adult Swim, but when I skipped ahead to the yet-unreleased Japanese episodes ... it made me realize why I like the DCAU's storytelling style better.

I disagree, I think part two was worth it considering what it was trying to do.

[Wolf Boy2]

I disagree, I think part two was worth it considering what it was trying to do.
IMO, everything from episode 25 onward was a downward spiral. In the end, it was Light's own stupid mistakes that brought him down. This is my thoughts on the series, and the way it compares to Macbeth.

**SPOILER HEAVY!!! I MEAN IT, I DISSCUSS MAJOR DEATHS**

It doesn't ever suck. It's just better in the beginning.

Death Note is basically Macbeth, if that's not blatentely obvious. The story is told from the perspective of a villian with some supernatural advantage (Kira has a Death Note, Macbeth couldn't be killed). He is challenged by a series of heroic people who all meet bad ends. He is led to kill his family and friends. In the end though, he is a lonely raving lunatic and he ultimately dies. And all the while, supernatural entities are viewing the human drama from an unbiased perspective (Witches in Macbeth, Shinigami in Death Note). Also, the hero/villian archetypes are reflections of each other (L and Kira, Macbeth and Banquo). Macbeth kills Banquo to ensure his rise to power, because Banquo rejects murder while Macbeth embraces it.

That's a good story structure, but I think the story of Macbeth was better in the beginning when Macbeth wasn't entirely evil. But after slaying King Duncun and Banquo, there is no hope or remorse for Macbeth. You just want him to die. Yet at the same time, you sympathize with him in a twisted way and his demise is also painful. Like, it wasn't bad enough that your hero died, now your villian is dying.

But the hero still has the "last laugh" from beyond, and it's the good guy, not the bad guy, who has an enduring legacy (M and N in Death Note, Malcom son of Banquo in Macbeth). Hell, Kira and Macbeth both see ghosts of their respective nemesis (L and Banquo)

The surprises in Death Note are not who dies or lives (which can be seen a mile away) but rather the little forks in the road along the way. L verus Kira at their peak is the cream of the series. A dead L and a declining Kira, even though it's nesscessary to round out the story and conclude it, is just not as good. It's still worth watching, though.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

IMO, everything from episode 25 onward was a downward spiral. In the end, it was Light's own stupid mistakes that brought him down. This is my thoughts on the series, and the way it compares to Macbeth.

**SPOILER HEAVY!!! I MEAN IT, I DISSCUSS MAJOR DEATHS**

It doesn't ever suck. It's just better in the beginning.

Death Note is basically Macbeth, if that's not blatentely obvious. The story is told from the perspective of a villian with some supernatural advantage (Kira has a Death Note, Macbeth couldn't be killed). He is challenged by a series of heroic people who all meet bad ends. He is led to kill his family and friends. In the end though, he is a lonely raving lunatic and he ultimately dies. And all the while, supernatural entities are viewing the human drama from an unbiased perspective (Witches in Macbeth, Shinigami in Death Note). Also, the hero/villian archetypes are reflections of each other (L and Kira, Macbeth and Banquo). Macbeth kills Banquo to ensure his rise to power, because Banquo rejects murder while Macbeth embraces it.

That's a good story structure, but I think the story of Macbeth was better in the beginning when Macbeth wasn't entirely evil. But after slaying King Duncun and Banquo, there is no hope or remorse for Macbeth. You just want him to die. Yet at the same time, you sympathize with him in a twisted way and his demise is also painful. Like, it wasn't bad enough that your hero died, now your villian is dying.

But the hero still has the "last laugh" from beyond, and it's the good guy, not the bad guy, who has an enduring legacy (M and N in Death Note, Malcom son of Banquo in Macbeth). Hell, Kira and Macbeth both see ghosts of their respective nemesis (L and Banquo)

The surprises in Death Note are not who dies or lives (which can be seen a mile away) but rather the little forks in the road along the way. L verus Kira at their peak is the cream of the series. A dead L and a declining Kira, even though it's nesscessary to round out the story and conclude it, is just not as good. It's still worth watching, though.


I always saw part two as having been about the downfall of Light and while volume eight drags on a little I think it's interesting to see how even though Light is nearly a god it is those closest to him that are there to watch him step on his own landmine. The second to last chapter of the Manga is my favorite, to be honest, because of the sheer irony of it all

[Hordesman]

I'm curious as to how the name and appearance part of the DN would work.

Namewise, I'll use Superman. I'm inclined to think Superman being written in the DN wouldn't work. So what would kill him? Writing Clark Kent or Kal El or either? I think it's possible that CK would be more likely to work since it is Superman's legal name on this planet. But that begs the question if legal name changes can stop the DN if done in time?

And then there's shapeshifting. If Det. John Jones was on Light's trail... would that name satisfy the DN? Would the face? It's an interesting grey area, I'd think.

[creativerealms]

I'm curious as to how the name and appearance part of the DN would work.

Namewise, I'll use Superman. I'm inclined to think Superman being written in the DN wouldn't work. So what would kill him? Writing Clark Kent or Kal El or either? I think it's possible that CK would be more likely to work since it is Superman's legal name on this planet. But that begs the question if legal name changes can stop the DN if done in time?

And then there's shapeshifting. If Det. John Jones was on Light's trail... would that name satisfy the DN? Would the face? It's an interesting grey area, I'd think.

I have always figured that it's Birth name that counts. Or maybe like I brought up with Joker what the person believes his real name is. Which is why someone without a real name the death note may not work on them. Even then I say the chance low. Like theres a chance Misa or someone else with Shinigami eyes and no name shows up. Sort of like how no date of death shows up if someone has a Death note. But even thats iffy.

I don't know. i mean if I am saying no name could show up for Joker then in the Case of Superman it could be Kel El or Clark Kent. John on the Other hand I'm pretty sure it will come up as J'onn J'onnz. Really I don't know.

Same thing with Two face, would writing Harvey Dent in the death note kill him? Or would Light have to write both Harvey Dent and Two face since both are really his dominate personality. It really gets hard when you look at Batman's rogues and their different mental states. Like maybe writing Harvey Dent will only kill the Harvey Personality and the darker side would still be a live, really who knows.

Maybe the Death Note will kill someone with their "real name" even if they don't have one anymore. It's not something that comes up.

[Hordesman]

ISame thing with Two face, would writing Harvey Dent in the death note kill him? Or would Light have to write both Harvey Dent and Two face since both are really his dominate personality. It really gets hard when you look at Batman's rogues and their different mental states. Like maybe writing Harvey Dent will only kill the Harvey Personality and the darker side would still be a live, really who know

Well, I'd think that different personalities wouldn't change the default heart attack death, unless they're triggered by external forces- like Deadman or Star Sapphire or those starfish mind-controllers. And even then, you'd have the host presumably still die. In any case, the Scarface persona's not going to survive the Ventriloquist's heart attack.

But what of the sort of end Light used on people like Naomi? The control aspect is limited by geography, that much is established. But the person does die after being written in, just in the default way being stuck in prison and unable to go overseas. So how would that play out when you're trying to have some Arkham inmate escape, blow up the place and die in the process? I think you'll have a good number of fragmented psyches inside Arkham fighting off the effects in a way normal ones can't. And in that time, there's all sorts of supernatural beings they can potentially barter with to stay alive. How would the DN fare against the sorcerers and sorceresses of the DCAU?

[Anubis C. Soundwave]

Per a recent DN ep:

That sorcery practitioner may have to contend with the Shinigami king that Rem spoke of.

And if we consider "Dreams in Darkness" canon as far as the Joker's name: our Clown Prince is toast. They used the 1989 Batman film name("Jack Napier") in BTAS. One quick scribble of Joker's BTAS name, and he dies like Raye P. did--unless Joker was able to nail Light with the triple-patented laughing gas first.

I can see the dialogue now:

[cue MARK HAMILL & BRAD SWAILE voices, and DN background music]


LIGHT:

So: you managed to find me, JACK NAPIER. You are the most evil man alive. And when I become the new god of this world, I'm sure Batman will thank me for disposing of you.

JOKER:

You're not going to kill me, kiddo. You'll only die LAUGHING.(laughs as he squirts the usual green/purple/pink LAUGHING GAS)

[JOKER leaves.]

[CUT TO hospital, where LIGHT is laughing maniacally--but not of his own free will. BATMAN enters room.]

LIGHT(laughs helplessly):

That Joker...he's smarter...than I thought....

BATMAN:

I have the antidote. If you want it, hand over the DEATH NOTE, and tell me exactly how it works....


= = =

Of course, I would hope Light has a contingency plan for combating the Joker(on the off chance Joker sneaks into the Yagami homestead and kills Sachiko and Sayu(kid sister? it's not SAYA--that's another show with a good deal of blood play....)).

Then again, the Joker might try to cut a deal with Light(who might have researched said crook's dealings with Lex(WORLD'S FINEST)); at least until he thought he had the boy's trust. Remember, the Joker's a nutty super-genius too.

The interaction ought to be nifty: the two genius malefactors and their blonde "sidekicks"(Harley and Misa, both resourceful but ultimately pitiful women).

Of course, all of this is happening before RETURN OF THE JOKER. After that movie, Light can forget killing our evil clown: Robin II(III in the comics) already done the deed the "old-fashioned way".

= = =

And there's another villain who might have an interest in the DN--one more dangerous than Lex and the Joker(pre-RotJ) combined: R'as al-Ghul, who already knows Batman's true identity. Since this is pre-BATMAN BEYOND, all R'as would have to do to get Bruce's body(and wealth) is send his masked Society of Shadow operatives to kill Light(they'd be masked, and R'as would be unknown to someone like Light), take the DN, kill Batman with it, have Ubu retrieve Batman's corpse; a little trick with the old Lazarus Pit or whatever R'as had done to Talia for his resurrection in OUT OF THE PAST, and voila!--instant Bruce al-Ghul.

The only problem is that pesky L, not to mention the Question. Those two might anticipate the R'as angle, even if Batman himself might think that R'as would have little reason to use the DN.(and again, Light would not expect Mr. live-for-centuries-by-having-himself-periodically-lowered-into-chemicals-that make-him-temporarily-mad to make a move on him.)

And what of Batman's ETRIGAN connections...?

= = =

Although if we restricted Light's focus to Gotham City itself(Light might want to take it slow, start off by taking out Rupert Thorne(look at him--he's got to go sometime) and Arnold Stromwell. Maybe the Penguin after a few months. If Light plays Gotham smart, Batman may not notice the pattern until Dent/Two-Face dies.

No; he wouldn't try to take on all the Earth-based villains at once. First Gotham(worst crime record), then Central City, and after a while he'd target Metropolis.

= = =

As far as Superman being susceptible: one of his weakness is magic; IOW, the supernatural. The only thing I can think of that would save Supes from a DN-induced heart attack is said Man of Steel manually forcing his heart to beat until he can get to Star Labs.(even if Dr. Hamilton no longer trusts him, Amanda Waller/former head of CADMUS does owe him bigtime.)

If this reaches the JLU(who'd try to stop him, especially if Light realized someone like the Question was catching on to him), Batman may order all JLU members to have pacemaker surgery--or some other surgical remedy to combat the DN heart attacks.

= = =

The other problem is that to a limited extent, the DN can control the victim's fate.

= = =

I'm telling you, DN/DCAU speculation could go on for a while.