Harley and Ivy as addressed in "Batman: The Animated Newsletter Survivor rip-off"...

[DisneyBoy]

Sorry, TimTwoFace, but I couldn't find the old "Are Harley and Ivy Lesbians" thread so I'm just going to start a new thread.

Were you the one who wrote the "No Man's Land" story every issue of Batman: The Animated Newsletter , as one of the Batman characters was voted off? I found the story interesting and well written (similar to our Death of Superman thread going now) but I wanted to ask you about how the Ivy and Harley relationship was handled in that story. I got the impression in that tale, that while Ivy was *interested* in Harley, Harley didn't exactly feel the same way. In one of the entries I believe that Ivy wanted to *engage in adult activites* with Harley, despite the fact that she vocally protested. If I remember correctly, I think Harley even said she didn't like when Ivy behaved that way...

Now, I'm not trying to be mean or start a controversy, it's just that I was never certain whether or not I correctly understood that part of the story. Was Harley forced into *being* with Ivy? Please shed some light on this if you can, because it has bothered me for some time...

[TimTwoFace]

Yep, I did write every episode of that "No Man's Island/Intentional Survivor Rip-Off", that was all me. :D

Anyway, first off, the only reason I hinted at Poison Ivy being bisexual is because of how she had been handled in the new episodes; it's obvious that the writers were hinting at this too, especially with the "let's kiss and make up" line in GIRLS NIGHT OUT. That, and she's been a known man-hater from the beginning. In a CINEFANTASTIQUE magazine issue, Bruce Timm speaks on PRETTY POISON (her origin episode). The writer says the episode is "rife with overt and subtle sexual imagery", and Bruce Timm claims that "it wasn't intentional, but the Venus Fly-trap creature looks like a vagina with teeth...in a way, it's a very good visual metaphor for what she is, a man-killer."

Anyway, I just wanted to include a bit of that "sexual tension" between Harley and Ivy in my story, because it definately does exist - at least on Ivy's part. Harley's reason for hanging out with Ivy has been the same ever since their first meeting in HARLEY & IVY - she was running from the Joker, trying to leave heartbreak behind, and finds a kindred spirit in Poison Ivy, who has more self-esteem and is just a stronger person inside. Harley looks at her as a big sister, really, and Ivy cares for Harley as if she were her little, innocent, dunderheaded sister (as Harley often is :D ), though she does have aspirations for more. I tried to push the boundaries on that issue, ultimately resulting on Harley bailing out on Ivy and wanting none of it.

The reason I hooked them up in my story to begin with is just because they ARE a duo - Batman needs his Robin, Harley needs her Ivy. :)

Does that make any sense? I hope so...cuz now I feel lost.

-Tim

[TimTwoFace]

Oh yeah, and one more thing - I personally upped the ante on the romantic tension just as a dig at all the comic-book fanboys (or fangirls) that fantasize about such things. The Comic Book Store Guy would certainly appreciate it.

"Worst Ambiguously Gay Duo EVER".

OK, maybe not. :)

-Tim

[DisneyBoy]

I like your explanation for Harley and Ivy's unusual relationship, and I, too, feel like they are sisters to one another...but something really rubbed me wrong about how in one part of the story, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that Ivy forced Harley to sleep with her, despite vocal protests. I know that you didn't write a steamy love scene, but I think the "before" and "after" was suggested. Am I right on this one...did that happen?

If so, I must really say that I found that addition to their relationship and innappropriate one. I am all for a lesbian relationship being dealt with, but no one has the right to force anyone else into a sexual behavior, meaning what Ivy did to Harley. I was greatly relieved when Harley left her in the story because I didn't want her to face anymore abuse..which is what forcing someone into a sexual behavior is . This is partly why I am still confused by your description of their relationship: You compare them to Batman and Robin...and yet you seem to be hinting at an sexually abusive relationship...Aren't those two entirely different things?

Please clarify...

[TimTwoFace]

Uhhh..no, I wasn't implying that they actually DID anything. I was implying that Ivy WANTED to, Harley wouldn't have any of it, and therefore they split ways. That's all.

You're right, if I DID do what you thought I did, that would be unappropriate for the characters...cuz Ivy, despite all the desire, isn't mean-spirited and abusive towards Harley.

-Tim

[DisneyBoy]

(Fewww!)

I'm breathing a sigh of relief! Thanks for not killing me for misunderstanding!

[Karkull]

Originally posted by TimTwoFace
In a CINEFANTASTIQUE magazine issue, Bruce Timm speaks on PRETTY POISON (her origin episode). The writer says the episode is "rife with overt and subtle sexual imagery", and Bruce Timm claims that "it wasn't intentional, but the Venus Fly-trap creature looks like a vagina with teeth...in a way, it's a very good visual metaphor for what she is, a man-killer."

What issue is that? I've been looking for a copy for years.

Does anyone know where I could order one?

[TimTwoFace]

KNow what? I have absolutely no idea - I just saw these years ago - like in 1997 - at someone's site (anyone remember "HARLEY'S HOMEPAGE"? It was the first Bat-site I'd ever encountered) and I just printed them off. They're pretty cool. I'd just go to CINEFANTASTIQUE and look through their back issues - it came out in either 1993 or 1994, because they didn't have the new episodes (the Saturday morning batch with SECOND CHANCE, RIDDLER'S REFORM, etc) included.

Hope that helps ya'll.

-TIm

[Poison Carley]

I'm really sick right now and I just needed to get out of bed and do something, thus, I really don't have the energy right now to explain how stupid this thread is. Ivy isn't a lesbian. Wake up, turn off the cartoons. They are cartoons and only some sicko freak thinks Ivy is a lesbian.

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by Poison Carley
I'm really sick right now and I just needed to get out of bed and do something, thus, I really don't have the energy right now to explain how stupid this thread is. Ivy isn't a lesbian. Wake up, turn off the cartoons. They are cartoons and only some sicko freak thinks Ivy is a lesbian.

But if we turn off the cartoons, we won't have anything to talk about at these boards! :p

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by Poison Carley
I'm really sick right now and I just needed to get out of bed and do something, thus, I really don't have the energy right now to explain how stupid this thread is. Ivy isn't a lesbian. Wake up, turn off the cartoons. They are cartoons and only some sicko freak thinks Ivy is a lesbian.

Calm down, Carley, it's just a fan writing a fanfic. No harm there, is there? Just becuase you don't like the idea doesn't mean you have to bash any other fan who like the idea, or thinks it might be true. To be honest, I really couldn't care if she was or wasn't, I just think this is something not to get all upset about.

Please keep things calm here or I (or one my my mod buddies) will close the thread.

[TimTwoFace]

Ahhhhhh...very good point.

And Ivy isn't a lesbian, no, that's for sure. I think that she's just sexually open to anything and anyone, should it suit her purposes and further her gains - be it with some man she needs to seduce to pull off a heist, or some tree that she found particularly beautiful. :)

What would the word for that be...erm...uhhh...ah hell, I dunno, it's on the tip of my tongue but it ain't jumpin' off.

Oh Ms. Carley, nice avatar - I remember seeing those at your site ages ago. You draw those? :)

-Tim

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by TimTwoFace
Ahhhhhh...very good point.

And Ivy isn't a lesbian, no, that's for sure. I think that she's just sexually open to anything and anyone, should it suit her purposes and further her gains - be it with some man she needs to seduce to pull off a heist, or some tree that she found particularly beautiful. :)
Dang, that ain't gonna make her feel much better :P

Get well soon, Carley

[TimTwoFace]

What, did I say somethin' wrong? Sorry guys, but I'm still kinda new 'round these message boards.

*SCRATCHES HEAD IN SLIGHT CONFUSION, HOPING THAT I DIDN'T START ANYTHING*

-Tim

:o

[Poison Carley]

Tim- You went to my site? That was awhile ago. Most of the pics are just like manips of Ivy pictures, there are orginal ones though.

Jim- Ummm I'm really not able to think right now but I can sum it up like this... Cartoons, cartoons, cartoons!!! If it is like fanfic then they need to put FANFIC clear as day before they start with this garbage. I enjoy the characters not ohh let's think about Batman and Poison Ivy having sex. The idea of Harley and Ivy being lesbians is played out kind of like Vanilla Ice or Mc Hammer. People need to conduct themselves as mature adults and not act like 10 year olds ohh let's talk about cartoon sex. It's stupid and has no support evidence other than speculations. So till someone finds me an episode or a comic with Harley and Ivy having sex this topic is retarded. Cartoons!! Cartoons!! Cartoons!! I remember when people enjoyed the stories that cartoons and comics told. I remember what it was like before you had to have big breats in a comic to sell it and if anyone knows my age, I'm really not that old at all. To each his own, if you want to have a fantasy about two cartoon's having sex, go for it. I perfer my sex in the flesh.

[Poison Carley]

Umm I really don't care about this kid talking about Ivy having sex with a tree. She'd do that before she would ever do Harley Quinn. Like I said, I perfer my sex in the flesh not lived out through comic book characters. Fact Poison Ivy controls plants and has a green skin tone. That can be proven by opening up a comic book. This crap has no facts or anything other than horny fanboys and will always be fiction more so than the comic it came from.

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by Poison Carley
This crap has no facts or anything other than horny fanboys and will always be fiction more so than the comic it came from.

Chill out... Jim already gave a warning. Although I guess you would want this thread closed... but others might not.

[James Harvey]

Yes Carley, I know these are cartoons. I know becuase I've a big dedicated fan. Dedicated 10 years of my life to these characters, comics, and cartoons. Yes this "Ivy might be bisexual" thing is speculation, and there is nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all. You don't like the topic - then turn the other cheek. If you don't like the idea , then ignore it. Raving about how she isn't a lesbian isn't going to make the topic dissapear or make people stop speculating about it. It'll only embarrass you. That's it. I will ask you again to please calm down. Please.

And BTW - Tim did put "Fanfic" clear his day on his hilarious and well done "No Man's Island" story he did for B:TAN.

And Tim, you did nothing wrong. I just felt that Carley was being too hostile in her response towards this thread. Nothing against you, pal.

And I'll say it again, calm down in this thread or it will be shut. End of story.

[Poison Carley]

Just shut up. You are the only person on this board I don't like. You just have this attitude and it's a shame we don't go to the same school. I am debateing a topic and I am doing so with facts and in a respectful manner. I suggest you step back. All you are trying to do is start a fight and I'll give it to you... Just not on this message board.

[Failure]

Originally posted by Poison Carley
Just shut up. You are the only person on this board I don't like. You just have this attitude and it's a shame we don't go to the same school. I am debateing a topic and I am doing so with facts and in a respectful manner. I suggest you step back. All you are trying to do is start a fight and I'll give it to you... Just not on this message board.

Ok, that was ridiculously way off base. Regardles of how heated arguments get you don't have the right to threaten anybody. Here's a oft repeated tip, calm down.

Close this thread, it's gotten ridiculous.

[James Harvey]

My apologies to Disneyboy and TimTwoFace who just wanted to discuss his awesome "No Man's Island" stuff. This thread has been closed, but I'll allow the topc of Tim's fanfic to be revisited. Poison Carley has been banned from this site for blantantly insulting a moderator and being extrmely rude and disrespectful to other posters.