Interesting Article on Marvel Comics

[James Harvey]

The Dallas Observer recently put up this article about the current and future Marvel comics. The link is below:

<a href="http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/2002-02-07/stuff.html/1/index.html">Marvel Article</a>

That last quote is interesting:

"DC is all about yesterday," says Bill Rosemann, Marvel's head of promotions. "It's getting Frank Miller to do Batman again... They're looking at these things that have done well in the past and re-creating that. We're doing new things--new people, new formats. It's more of a conservatism on their part, where we're saying, 'We have nothing to lose. Comics will die if we don't try anything we can.'"

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey

"DC is all about yesterday," says Bill Rosemann, Marvel's head of promotions. "It's getting Frank Miller to do Batman again... They're looking at these things that have done well in the past and re-creating that. We're doing new things--new people, new formats. It's more of a conservatism on their part, where we're saying, 'We have nothing to lose. Comics will die if we don't try anything we can.'"

Sounds like they're desperate to me.

And isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? I mean, Marvel is just as guilty at this sort of thing as DC. How many times have they tried to bring back Captain America? Aren't all the MAX comics just re-makes of classic characters? They're just recycling all of their material, just like DC is doing.

[James Harvey]

Basically yeah, but they wording it and manipulating it to make it sound like "fresh" and "new" ideas. They're spinning it, and spinning it good. They know how to manipulate the reader. DC is user their "if it ain't broke - don't fix it technique", which is working for the vast majority of their titles. Marvel is using the "If it ain't broke, exploit it" technique.

[Naraht]

Heh...

Well, I like some of the stuph marvel's doing...

Ultimate Spidey is Super Kick Ass, as is Amazing "JMS" Man..er Spider Man...

Ultimate X-Men went where Xmen never did (that I know of) make the kids work for the bad guys...whoa!

ok, so their xmen titles still stink..IMO. And I've never been a huge Avengers fan...heh

DC bugs me...
the fact that you have to read 5 diffrent titled comic books to read one story is a complete crap tactic designed to sell more books. >=p

[Clayface]

Oh, I like a lot of what Marvel's doing as well. I just don't think they should go tooting their own horn about being so "fresh" when they're doing the exact same thing that DC is. People in glass houses....

[Naraht]

Originally posted by Clayface
Oh, I like a lot of what Marvel's doing as well. I just don't think they should go tooting their own horn about being so "fresh" when they're doing the exact same thing that DC is. People in glass houses....

you look at it as bashing DC....

I look at it bashing AOHell...which is what I'm all for! =O

[Clayface]

Originally posted by naraht


you look at it as bashing DC....


Which is exactly how Marvel meant it.

[CadaverousEyes]

Says the company that hired Grant Morrison and Garth Ennis after their stints at DC.

[Calhoun07]

What I think is behind this is Marvel is trying to bring back the old rivalry between the two companies. It sparks interest and it sparks sales. But what Marvel is doing is NOT NEW, just recycling the same old ideas that have been around since Kirby and Lee.

[Memphis Bleek]

Originally posted by naraht
Heh...

Well, I like some of the stuph marvel's doing...

Ultimate Spidey is Super Kick Ass, as is Amazing "JMS" Man..er Spider Man...

Ultimate X-Men went where Xmen never did (that I know of) make the kids work for the bad guys...whoa!

ok, so their xmen titles still stink..IMO. And I've never been a huge Avengers fan...heh

DC bugs me...
the fact that you have to read 5 diffrent titled comic books to read one story is a complete crap tactic designed to sell more books. >=p

I agree with everything your saying. Also the Ultimates #1 was the best Captain America story I have ever read!

[Calhoun07]

This is from the current Westfield catalogue (with comments and hightlights by me)

AVENGERS: THE KORVAC SAGA TPB - (Jim Shooter/George Pérez/various) Reprinting Avengers (Vol. 1) #167, #168, #170-177. Fleeing through the timestream from the futuristic Guardians of the Galaxy, Korvac has established a secret presence on Earth as the mysterious Michael. When the Avengers catch wind of his scheme to dominate the universe, they must find him before the Guardians, or risk annihilation. Featuring the work of David Michelinie, Bill Mantlo, Sal Buscema, David Wenzel, and Tom Morgan. 192 pp. Cover price $19.95 Westfield price $16.50

INFINITY GAUNTLET TPB - [A] (Jim Starlin/George Pérez) New printing. Reprints Infinity Gauntlet #1-6 . Thanos, the mad Titan, has stolen the six infinity gems and now controls all aspects of time, space, power, reality, the mind and the soul. On the edge of Armageddon and led by the mysterious Adam Warlock, Earth's super heroes join in a desperate attempt to thwart Thanos' insane plunge into galactic self-destruction. 256 pp. Cover price $24.95 Westfield price $20.60

FANTASTIC FOUR #54 - (Pacheco, Marin & K. Kesel/Bagley/Vey) A 100-Page Monster. The murderous plan of the Hidden Ones stands revealed, as does their history with the Inhumans. Plus, the birth of Franklin Richards from Fantastic Four Annual #6 - the longest single FF story produced by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. And the Impossible Man invades the Marvel Bullpen in a tale from Fantastic Four #176 by Roy Thomas and George Pérez. 100 pp. Cover price $3.50 Westfield price $2.90


Those right there show you they are still relying on old material to get sales.

Then we have

CAPTAIN AMERICA #1 - (John Ney Rieber/John Cassaday) In the aftermath of 9/11, Cap must deal with the way America - and the world - has changed. Cap travels from the ruins of the World Trade Center to the horrors of a small town shaken by terrorism. 48 pp. Cover price $3.99 Westfield price $2.95

What was Clayface saying about Captain America?

Not to mention they brought back Elektra. I am sure there are more but that's what I noticed straight off. Doesn't look all too new to me, just repackaged and retold.

[James]

Originally posted by naraht
Heh...

DC bugs me...
the fact that you have to read 5 diffrent titled comic books to read one story is a complete crap tactic designed to sell more books. >=p

And that never occurs in Marvel?

I love both for different reasons (in all honesty aside from Batman and the occasional Supes, I'm mainly a Marvel guy), but Marvel is constantly bridging stories. Always has done.

What annoys me about the Marvel statement is the simple denial. Both use similar tactic (DC in the last decade has stooped quite low with marketing tactics). Marvel on many occasions. In fact the late 90's were just a constant stream of new books/rebirths/retellings. Just because half were so naff they had to step back from the project doesn't mean they can sneak all their dirty laundry under the carpet..!

Cheeky.....!

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I wouldn't count TPBs because that's what TPBs are supposed to do--reprint old material. I'm glad Marvel is turning up their TPB output now, because DC had always issued reprints of their best runs or mini-series, while Marvel has only in recent years started doing this on a consistent basis.

We have to look at their current monthly titles to guage what innovations they are cranking out. I personally have been too caught up reading back issues and reprints, so other than the occasional Amazing Spider-Man and Avengers comic, I cannot say personally how well they are doing in terms of innovation.

I wouldn't get too excited over comments like this, though. It's typical words from an opposing company...happens at least twice a week in some form or another.

Personally, I think the biggest reason comics are ailing is because of price and availability. In the glory years, you picked up a comic book at the supermarket or convenience store along with a pack of gum or candy. You read them in the car or on the sidewalk. Nowadays you get maybe 23 pages (minus ads) for God knows how much they cost now, and you'd be lucky to find them in a convenient store.

[Calhoun07]

I really think that it's price. I remember when my mom would tell me she'd never buy my comics for me if they got above 75¢ an issue. And I think a lot of people feel that way now.

[Apache Chief]

I think there is a lot more to that article than that last quote. I think what Marvel is doing is great. I look forward to Ultimate Spider-Man every month - in a way I haven't looked forward to a comic in years. And if Jemas sounds a little cocky and hypocritical in that final quote, well, maybe he's entitled. Marvel has really turned around this last year, and that's good for DC comics too. One last thing about his final quote, whatever DC's reasons for bringing Miller back to Batman ($$$) I think that the new DK is junk.

[James Harvey]

I will give Marvel their props on their new tradepaperback system. That is definatly helping me out on picking up on some old issues I missed.

And as for Marvel sayiing that they have "fresh" and "new" ideas? Not two weeks after DC announced their Batman: 10 Cent Adventure did they announce their Fantastic Four 9 Cent Issue.

[kid_flash]

I gotta say that Marvel is doing some fresh stuff with their comics, but it's no more fresh than DC, with the exception of the Ultimate line. Think about it...

X-MEN: Yay, new creators! I mean, how can you not be pumped about Grant Morrison and Joe Casey writing this stuff! Of course, it's not really that different from DC's overhaul of the Superman titles.

SPIDER-MAN: Really great, fresh stuff that's pulling in new readers like crazy. And they're taking chances with the latest ASM storyline. But the Bat-folk are doing the same thing with the Murderer? and Fugitive storylines.

FANTASTIC FOUR 9-CENT ADVENTURE: Please, do I really have to explain this one?

And then you have DC putting new, fresh creative teams on titles like THE FLASH and JSA (WIZARD's Book of the Month and Comic of the Year, respectively). And bringing back old characters like Hawkman and Green Arrow (which could be said to be rehash, but you can't deny that it pulls in money).

So, yeah, that DC's all about yesterday, as long as they don't deny that Marvel is, too.

[Zoddman]

Eh, that article is extremely biased. I mean, come on. Vertigo books are a million times more thought provoking and intriguing than the toilet paper Marvel puts out in its' "MAX" line. Plus most Vertigo books are original, fairly new creations, while MAX is just more repackaging of the old. I'll give Marvel the credit on the ultimate line, however.

[jwoo10]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
And as for Marvel sayiing that they have "fresh" and "new" ideas? Not two weeks after DC announced their Batman: 10 Cent Adventure did they announce their Fantastic Four 9 Cent Issue.

And this really irks me! As has been pointed out elsewhere, this is really screwing over the retailers. After all, [B]Batman: 10 Cent Adventure [B\]was a stand-alone issue that attempted to introduce readers to the other Batman books. However, [B]Fantastic Four[B\] is still the Fantastic Four comic book that usually costs $2. Great bargain for the reader, but do the shops make money on this?

I'm mainly a DC/Indy guy, but even I admit I've been buying more and more Marvel titles lately. With the exception of [B]Elektra[B\] (pee-yew!), I've enjoyed all of Bendis's Marvel comics (including [B]Alias[B\], the only Max title worth picking up), [B]X-Force[B\] (and I had given up on mutant books since 1990, but this is so over-the-top, and it has Mike Allred to boot!), and all the Spidey comics.

I'm looking forward to Cassady's [B]Captain America[B\] (loved his [B]Despeardoes[B\] and [B]Union Jack[B\] work, and I vote for him every year in the CBG awards), but I hope this doesn't mean a further delay in [B]Planetary[B\].

I think what's hurt DC of late has been their over-reliance on lame, unexciting fifth-week stunt events that interfere with some of their regular comics.

[Naraht]

Geez, it's starting to get heated in here...both DC and Marvel have their good & bad points..lets leave it @ that? K?

Also, jwoo...

it's [ / B ] (Minus the spaces) not [ B \ ]

[jwoo10]

Originally posted by naraht
Geez, it's starting to get heated in here...both DC and Marvel have their good & bad points..lets leave it @ that? K?

Also, jwoo...

it's [ / B ] (Minus the spaces) not [ B \ ]

Sorry about that! As soon as I saw my post up on the board, I realized something went wrong. Geez, babbling AND bad punctuation. :)

[kid_flash]

Yeah, I'd like to clear the air about my previous post. I am a big fan of what Marvel's doing. I used to just get Ultimate Spidey, but now I also get New X-Men (Morrison rules), Elektra (didn't like Bendis' stuff as much, but Greg rules), Daredevil (just plain awesome), Captain America (really looking forward to Marvel Knights), The Ultimates (how can you NOT love this?), and Amazing Spider-Man (one of the best comics out there). And then I get 17 DC comics....but that's not the point here!

[baggins]

Can anyone recommend the best Spider-Man comic book , which has the orginal early stories in. :)

[Naraht]

Originally posted by baggins
Can anyone recommend the best Spider-Man comic book , which has the orginal early stories in. :)

er..huh?

the best book currently, or the best place to find the classic stories, or...???

[baggins]

I know there are many comic books on Spider Man , I have many in my collection. What I would like is a book with the early original stories in form the early 60s. :)

[CadaverousEyes]

Sounds like the Essential Spider-Man volumes 1-4 are right up your alley. If you don't mind black and white and cheap paper, you get over 20 issues per volume of ASM.

There are Marvel Masterworks Spidey books (in color and on quality paper) but they're hard to find, cost more, and only have about 11 issues per volume.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by CadaverousEyes
Sounds like the Essential Spider-Man volumes 1-4 are right up your alley. If you don't mind black and white and cheap paper, you get over 20 issues per volume of ASM.

There are Marvel Masterworks Spidey books (in color and on quality paper) but they're hard to find, cost more, and only have about 11 issues per volume.

Or you could try getting "Spider-Man Classic" issues from the back issue bins, and the "Marvel Tales" reprints to get some colour and a cheap price.

But the Essentials are the best, IMO. B & W really sheds light on the techniques for would-be inkers out there, and it doesn't hurt the wallet because they are danged cheap TPBs.

IMO, the "freshest" running title Marvel's putting out right now is probably X-Force. If you're sick of the numerous X-Drek out there, X-Force is probably the best "x-book" for non X-Men fans out there.

[baggins]

Thanks. The Marvel masterworks is exactly what I'm looking for.
It has the first 10 comics of Spider Man plus his origin from Amazing Fantasy. :D

[CadaverousEyes]

To my knowledge, there are 5 Spidey Masterwork volumes (up to 50). Try to look around though, I've seen their prices range from $30 to $100.

[baggins]

I've already ordered the first book. I'll check out the other 4. Thanks. ;)

[VantheSlayer]

My personal choice would be the Essentials. But that's just me.

Also, I can't stand the new "X-Force". Quite Frankly, it seem's like there just trying to do a hip "It's, not an X-men book" to appease B*tchy fan boy's. Yea the Counter X thing wasn't very good, but they could have simply continued with GOOD charachter's, interesting plot's, and given Allred another title. It really seem's like rather than just giving Allred a chance to shine they came up wiht an idea for a "hip" re-vamp of X-Force that makes the recent Liefield run on Wolveirne look excellent.

Personally I'm loving X-Treme X-Men though. Yea Marvel went back to the old day's with Chris Claremont as writer, but for my money he's the best in the business. It's also nice to finally see the same creative team stick around for as long as these current ones have after those 2 or 3 issue crap run's for awhile now.

[baggins]

I've since learned that there are , 28 volumes in the series to date!. If I can get them? and in hardcover, it's going to cost me a pretty penny. I think I'll just start with the 5 Spider-Man Volumes for now, if I can still get them all. And progress to the Fantastic Four and X-Men.I'm not too bothered about the rest, especially the dalk tales and Dr Strange. :eek:

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by baggins
I've since learned that there are , 28 volumes in the series to date!. If I can get them? and in hardcover, it's going to cost me a pretty penny. I think I'll just start with the 5 Spider-Man Volumes for now, if I can still get them all. And progress to the Fantastic Four and X-Men.I'm not too bothered about the rest, especially the dalk tales and Dr Strange. :eek:

The first few Dr. Strange stories, by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, are good reading. Do not be fooled by the low quality of the newer Dr. Strange comics. He was one of the most interesting characters in the Marvel universe during the Ditko period.

[baggins]

I'm not knocking Dr Strange, I'm just saying he's not as popular with me as the other protagonist in the series. ;)