Yet another shooting... Leaves 4 dead at Missionary/Church

[Zeonic Freak]

This time, involving a former christian and a missionary and a church.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/megachurch-mission-shootings-linked/20071210152609990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

Man, i feel for the loss of church and i will do my part in prayer as well.

You gotta wonder, theres something going on with two shootings no less than a week apart happen by our typical suspect, a troubled youth.

Seems to me, its only going to get worse as time goes by...

[J'onn J'onzz]

An imitator of the imitator last week... So many shootings lately. :(

[Rolling Cloud]

An imitator of the imitator last week...

Stand-Alone Complex, maybe? :confused:


So many shootings lately. :(

But again, my condolences to the people lost.

[Joe]

An imitator of the imitator last week... So many shootings lately. :(

Well, a big difference here is that a female security guard shot him dead before he did further harm. So in this case there's a feeling that a real massacre was prevented

[Ishtar]

Wow, what's with all the shootings lately? I feel for the people who got killed though, and for their loved ones who must be devastated.

[ToOn~g@l]

It's always sad to hear about people killing each other during the holidays, it should be a peaceful time of year where everything is right with the world and no problems can be seen. But then of course this happens.

I live in Colorado Springs and my mom likes going to that place with her church friends to pray for a few hours. As a matter of fact, she was thinking about going that same day but because I didn't have to work she decided it was best for us to go out a get new tires for my car. So like she told me "God works in misterious ways."

I have been to New Life a few times as well, my high school would go there during Catholic Schools week, and I had my graduation there from the community college this past May so its scary to think that something like what just happened could have happened when I was in there.

I didn't know the Works family but they are in my prayers, and I am very thankful that there was a security guard on hand to keep this shooting from becoming a deadly massacre.

[Nexonius]

The Gunman hated Christianity. Sad.

Here's more devastating news:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/11/shooter.youth/index.html

[Classic Speedy]

The quote from Matt in that article about Christians being responsible for the problems in this world is ironic, since he himself caused all sorts of problems by shooting up two places.

Sigh. Once again, my thoughts and prayers for the deceased and wounded. Now let's not have any more senseless shootings before the new year... PLEASE? :sad:

[J'onn J'onzz]

The quote from Matt in that article about Christians being responsible for the problems in this world is ironic, since he himself caused all sorts of problems by shooting up two places.

Sigh. Once again, my thoughts and prayers for the deceased and wounded. Now let's not have any more senseless shootings before the new year... PLEASE? :sad:
I'd prefer we not have any more shootings EVER.

Really, this guy is ridiculous. I'm no big fan of Christianity but murdering random Christians isn't going to do any good.

[tucsoncoyote]

The quote from Matt in that article about Christians being responsible for the problems in this world is ironic, since he himself caused all sorts of problems by shooting up two places.

Sigh. Once again, my thoughts and prayers for the deceased and wounded. Now let's not have any more senseless shootings before the new year... PLEASE? :sad:

Actually Speedy B, I can say this, A friend of mine up in Canada and I were talking about this two nights ago and we both asked the same question:

How fast was it for someone to copycat someone else? And after a little research, we found out that the fastest "Copycat" Killer in the bunch was this guy..

Now if you look at the two shooters (the One in Omaha, and this one), you could see some similarities in some areas and differences in others.

For example, both the Omaha shooter and this shooter were suffering from some sort of mental issues. The latter, in fact was brought up by Christian parents, and in fact was kicked out of the Missionary training school which he hit first, then he turned his attention to the mega-church.

Now what is strikingly different here is that the Omaha shooter didn't know any of his victims (and according to Newsweek Magazine, this is what made the Omaha instance so rare. But in this case this shooter knew everyone. In fact he took his anger and pointed it towards the church in general and the Missionary school in particular.

and yet he also had time after the missionary shooting to go home and update his blog, speaking of this as if it was the fault of the Christians for causing all his misery.

Yet this then brings back a new issue.. Were both the Omaha Mall shooter and this guy, truly mentally ill? I would say this is more than likely the case. The main proof is how both people who carried out these crimes acted.

The Omaha mall shooter said that he didn't want to be a burden on society, yet this shooter in Colorado, was in fact blaming everybody in sight.

In short, both persons would be considered in the Psychological term, as "Psychotic" with the Omaha shooter trying to dis-associate with everyone (as he was quite anti-social), yet this one blamed everyone for his problems (Thus in this instance, he disassociated himself from the problem).

In short, both shooters blamed either themselves or someone else, thus taking the blame away from themselves for the actions they caused, and what is more surprising is that a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists don't even want to admit that both of these folks were in fact "psychotic", but rather they (The Psychologists/Psychiatrists), use the term of "Non-conformist, or anti-social. This shows one thing.. That even today's mental health services hate to use the "P" word.

Yet take a look at how both of these folks died? The Omaha shooter after killing his victims, literally turned the gun on himself, where as the Colorado shooter decided to use the method best known as "Blue Suicide" (Death by Security Guard/Cop). Either way both of these guys were going to take themselves out. (and what is even more ironic is that the Colorado shooter was literally called out on the mat by a Potential victim as being a 'coward', yet in the end this shooter allowed a security cop to kill him.


Now as for the legal aspect of this, there is a major difference between both shooters as well. For the Omaha shooter, he had some run ins with the law, and had a felony record. Conversely this Colorado shooter in fact had no run ins with the law, was in Legal trouble or anything of that nature.

that's what is puzzling here.. Usually most shooters nowadays have some sort of mental/criminal issues at hand, and usually it's these issues that cause the problems to escalate.

In closing i have to say that my friend and I who discussed this were really surprised at how fast this "Copycat" occurred, not only in speed, but rather in how both went down during an important time of the year, namely the holiday season. It would be interesting to note that maybe these folks who are doing these deeds are suffering from some sort of Seasonal Adjustment Depressional Disorder (or SADD for Short). Because when you get to this point, it's the only other commonality I can see. After all people do suffer from S.A.D.D. and in some cases, such issues if not treated could in a way turn anyone dangerous.. why? Because of the fact that usually these people who cause this are lonely or feel isolated, and usually when they do these things, they're doing so out of the reason of wanting attention.

Sometimes I wonder.. what could happen if we see more holiday killers running amok next season.. Will this really be a time to celebrate the happy times, or maybe what we should do is don bullet proof vests.. just in case.

:coyote:

[Dr.Pepper]

Yet another reason to stay in my room all day long

[Zeonic Freak]

The optopsy report shows that he guard did shoot Murry, but then he went and turned the gun on himself.

And from the link that Dorian posted, this guy had some issues probably even before he thought of this up. Especially his bunkmate who was like "when i heard who was the shooter, I knew it was Murry".

My question is, 5 years is a long time to plan this out, or better yet, in those 5 years when did he get the idea to plan this out. Something during that gap in time made him snap. Thats what i want to know...

[wonderfly]

Sigh. Once again, my thoughts and prayers for the deceased and wounded. Now let's not have any more senseless shootings before the new year... PLEASE? :sad:

Too late. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22207840/) :sad:

[Classic Speedy]

^ So what does that bring the grand total of shootings for the last couple of months to? I've lost track.

I don't know if I should be relieved or frightened that all these shootings aren't interrelated. It sucks big time either way.

[MasterDartz]

Sad. It's just terrible. What is wrong with people these days? I think it will just keep getting worse. Something must be done.



Things like this are the reason I support Kira in the Death Note manga/anime. I wish he was real. We need him.

[Mr. Anime]

Dear God, it never ends.:(

[Harvey Two Face]

Like I said last time, this is just another example of why gun laws in America should change, and when I say change, I mean that it should become a lot harder for people to acquire licenses as well as being allowed to use certain guns.

[SuperStantzio]

This is really sad. My prayers are for the victims in this tragety. :crying:

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Things like this are the reason I support Kira in the Death Note manga/anime. I wish he was real. We need him.

I'd have to dissagree with that. Kira, interesting character as he is... is wrong. No human has the right to bring judgement on anyone else.

This shooting hits a little close to home for me. My sister as well as several of my friends have taken part in the Youth With a Mission (YWAM for short) program. None of which to my knowledge were in the Denver program thankfully. But I am quite familar with the organization and I never expected to see it in the news in this manner. I'll be honest with you, it's terrifying.

My condolences and prayers go out to those who are grieving.

People could say Matthew was just disturbed. While I don't usually talk about it on any given message board. I fully believe that there are powerful forces that cause these tragedies to happen. There is a war for souls going on at this very moment as there has been for almost as long as time existed. Demons can influence people but everything is left up to choice. Matthew rejected what his family most likely tried to instill upon him and as I don't know exactly what that was I couldn't say whether or not I agreed with Matthew's choice to reject it. However, YWAM as I've known it wouldn't be the type of organization that would weaken someone's faith usually it strengthen's someone's faith.

If Matthew had truly known God he would have had no reason to declare war on Christianity. Because of this I expect that Matthew never had a clear image of God and that is what I find to be one of the greatest tragedies of all. Matthew will find no peace now.

I sometimes jokingly say "go ahead, I know where I'm going" when someone jokes about killing me. But much like Cassie at Columbine, the people that were caught in Matthew's attacks had great courage. I wish I could say I truly have that courage but if someone were to hold a gun up to my head and ask me what I believe in and can't honestly say I'd be able to stand my ground. I'm not strong enough on my own. But Matthew gained no victory here because those courages individuals, stood strongly in their faith. Once again my codolences and prayers go out to those who are left to morn but their morning shall pass because they also knew where their loved ones were going.

This much killing is truly terrifying and it's a message to the current generation to reach out to one another and put hatred to rest.

I hated High School. I didn't fit in but I had friends. Good friends and I also had faith. It wasn't much faith but it was enough to make life worth living. I can completely underestand why many young people grow to hate the world around them. No one wants to feel rejected. Sappy as it sounds, everyone wants to be loved.

If you're shocked by what I just wrote. I only opoligize for not saying something like this sooner. Humanity is killing itself and that's a serious matter. That's exactly what Satan wants.

I want to emphasize that this was Matthew's choice. I don't want any of you to think I'm saying that Matthew isn't to blame here or that he was manipulated by demonic forces. However, I also want to make it clear that I do believe this incident was not only the work of mortals.

[Zeonic Freak]

I'd have to dissagree with that. Kira, interesting character as he is... is wrong. No human has the right to bring judgement on anyone else.

This shooting hits a little close to home for me. My sister as well as several of my friends have taken part in the Youth With a Mission (YWAM for short) program. None of which to my knowledge were in the Denver program thankfully. But I am quite familar with the organization and I never expected to see it in the news in this manner. I'll be honest with you, it's terrifying.

My condolences and prayers go out to those who are grieving.

People could say Matthew was just disturbed. While I don't usually talk about it on any given message board. I fully believe that there are powerful forces that cause these tragedies to happen. There is a war for souls going on at this very moment as there has been for almost as long as time existed. Demons can influence people but everything is left up to choice. Matthew rejected what his family most likely tried to instill upon him and as I don't know exactly what that was I couldn't say whether or not I agreed with Matthew's choice to reject it. However, YWAM as I've known it wouldn't be the type of organization that would weaken someone's faith usually it strengthen's someone's faith.

If Matthew had truly known God he would have had no reason to declare war on Christianity. Because of this I expect that Matthew never had a clear image of God and that is what I find to be one of the greatest tragedies of all. Matthew will find no peace now.

I sometimes jokingly say "go ahead, I know where I'm going" when someone jokes about killing me. But much like Cassie at Columbine, the people that were caught in Matthew's attacks had great courage. I wish I could say I truly have that courage but if someone were to hold a gun up to my head and ask me what I believe in and can't honestly say I'd be able to stand my ground. I'm not strong enough on my own. But Matthew gained no victory here because those courages individuals, stood strongly in their faith. Once again my codolences and prayers go out to those who are left to morn but their morning shall pass because they also knew where their loved ones were going.

This much killing is truly terrifying and it's a message to the current generation to reach out to one another and put hatred to rest.

I hated High School. I didn't fit in but I had friends. Good friends and I also had faith. It wasn't much faith but it was enough to make life worth living. I can completely underestand why many young people grow to hate the world around them. No one wants to feel rejected. Sappy as it sounds, everyone wants to be loved.

If you're shocked by what I just wrote. I only opoligize for not saying something like this sooner. Humanity is killing itself and that's a serious matter. That's exactly what Satan wants.

I want to emphasize that this was Matthew's choice. I don't want any of you to think I'm saying that Matthew isn't to blame here or that he was manipulated by demonic forces. However, I also want to make it clear that I do believe this incident was not only the work of mortals.

Thats what i truly belive 100 precent, how the devil himself has a good grasp of the earth, just how its said in Revelation. And another thing, no matter what gun laws are passed or weapon restrictions, theres still going to be innocent blood spilled over people like Matt and the Omaha killer in the future.

Im just agreeing with Sketch post, not trying to start some holy war or beat the rest of the readers over the head with the Word of God. I know how people get on here when "religion" is mentioned.

As for security, im part of my churches staff of parking/security, which most churches need. Of course out goal as security is making sure the kids are safe in the Gym. And no, were not armed. Im sure my pastor has some idea now for beefing up security for out small congrigation after hearing this...

[Andrew T. Hingson]

It's a troubling thought that churches need security officiers. I would expect many more will be getting some kind of security after reading this.

[Gatomon41]

Sad times. My prayers to those grieving.