View Full Version : Why do so many 52 episode anime have a "slow start"?
Scirel
10-31-2007, 06:38 PM
This is something I've noticed in many series, but I just can`t seem to figure it out.
Why do so many anime in the aforementioned episode count usually have weak beginnings? The first few episodes are often quite slow and lethargic, having often little to do with the overall plot, and any non-fan of anime would quickly become disinterested.
yet, these shows are often very sucessful, as if everyone is aware these shows foten get better after a certain episode #, usually 11-13.
Does anyone know why this trend exists?
Personally, a lot of 52 episode series I know would be good all the way through if they were trimmed to 37-39.
Kury Wagner
10-31-2007, 06:41 PM
I think a lot of people have a better tolerance of waiting for a show to get better. I'm not that way at all. I need a title to be good from the start. It drives me nuts whenever people tell me that a show will pick up later, but they want me to watch from the beginning. ><
My wild guess,
Longer series make more money
more episodes, more DVDs to sell.
all about money.
GWOtaku
10-31-2007, 08:05 PM
They think they have all day to literally build things one step at a time. The better shows like Full Metal Alchemist don't fall into that trap, which I'm sure is a significant reason why it stands out.
bigdeath
10-31-2007, 08:12 PM
what you think is a slow start and what others think is slow are two very different things.
HG Revolution
10-31-2007, 08:58 PM
FMA becomes awesome within 3 episodes.
Not slow by my standards.
Scirel
10-31-2007, 09:06 PM
FMA becomes awesome within 3 episodes.
Not slow by my standards.
FMA is the exception. it's the only series I've seen that uses time management well.
Another case could be Death note, who realized 52 episodes would have been too much and 37 was enough to keep the pacing good without dragging.
Gundam wing, 49 episodes + 3 OVAs, it was good from the begining and not slow and from the moment Heero threatened to kill the brown haired girl at the end of episode 1 (i think), it was awesome.
this has 52 epis counting the OVA's and it started fast and ended fast.
(i will not hesitate to pull the Gundam Wing card in order to defend 52 episode animes)
bigdeath
10-31-2007, 09:18 PM
Gundam wing, 49 episodes + 3 OVAs, it was good from the begining and not slow and from the moment Heero threatened to kill the brown haired girl at the end of episode 1 (i think), it was awesome.
this has 52 epis counting the OVA's and it started fast and ended fast.
And thats one of the reasons many people think gundam wing was the best gundam, me included. :anime:
FMA is the exception. it's the only series I've seen that uses time management well.
Another case could be Death note, who realized 52 episodes would have been too much and 37 was enough to keep the pacing good without dragging.
Good examples.
I think the problem may arise particularly in manga adaptions when a television company orders a certain amount of episodes that may be a bit more than the source material can maintain. So the anime directors add scenes to help fill up the quotas.
Another reason might simply because the author/director simply takes several episodes before he hits a comfortable pace.
Pepperidge
10-31-2007, 10:31 PM
The problem is that the shows which do happen to have strong beginnings tend to have rather weak endings. All energy is spent establishing the premise of the series, but the best use of the premise is not always made. That was the case for both FMA and Gundam Wing, and arguably also with Blood+ and (to demonstrate the worst case scenario) Gundam SEED Destiny.
The shows that have weak beginnings are generally conceived with much greater things in store for later. But for some reason they almost always insist on having humble beginnings. Despite having a fantastic ending, Eureka seveN's greatest flaw was that episode 11 should've been episode 3.
It does seem to be something of a conceptual trade-off... but I do agree that most shows would be better with 37-39 episodes.
The problem is that the shows which do happen to have strong beginnings tend to have rather weak endings. All energy is spent establishing the premise of the series, but the best use of the premise is not always made. That was the case for both FMA and Gundam Wing,
What are you talking about, the ending of Gundam Wing was great, both episode 49 and Endless Waltz. there was no weak ending in Gundam Wing, you must have it confused with one of the other gundam series (exept G Gundam, that had a prety good ending too)
FMA is based on the manga, which is still ongoing so the anime ending was crappy only because it wasnt canon.
How about Monster, that one was way over 52 episodes and it was good from begining to end, though thats probably because its based completely on the manga (looking at you FMA anime).
Ragebot
11-01-2007, 12:48 AM
What are you talking about, the ending of Gundam Wing was great, both episode 49 and Endless Waltz. there was no weak ending in Gundam Wing, you must have it confused with one of the other gundam series (exept G Gundam, that had a prety good ending too)
Even if you defend the ending from an artistic level, Wing suffered severe production setbacks around the last half. Story editor Katsuyuki Sumisawa actually left the series for a point around episode 26, forcing the abandonment of plans to reveal the characters' backstories.
Not to mention those prevalent rumours that Masashi Ikeda quit and was replaced by Shinji Takamatsu...
Even if you defend the ending from an artistic level, Wing suffered severe production setbacks around the last half. Story editor Katsuyuki Sumisawa actually left the series for a point around episode 26, forcing the abandonment of plans to reveal the characters' backstories.
Not to mention those prevalent rumours that Masashi Ikeda quit and was replaced by Shinji Takamatsu...
well, they revealed some backstory's on the Zero manga thing, and since the series was still a good series after episode 26, i doubt that some guys leaving had a "negative effect on it" since Wing still turned out great.
just cause some production guys left, that doesnt mean it damaged Wing, which it obviously dint, cause Wing stayed strong.
HellCat
11-01-2007, 03:24 AM
I wouldn't say Wing had a great ending. There were alot of points to it that alot of people didn't get. Like Zechs. The whole idea was he wanted to start a war so horrible no one would ever want another and thus he sacrificied his own life in every sense of the word to achieve it. But as presented, it's more like he went psycho at the last minute. Then we get the knock off CCA battle between him and Heero, followed by the twin buster rifle destroying a chunk of Libra that could smash Earth.
If you want action, action, ACTION! Maybe that's good. But Wing was my first Gundam series and I couldn't watch it all the way through first time (I quit somewhere in the teens). I'd honestly say people saying its this awesome ending are suffering from nostalgia.
GWOtaku
11-01-2007, 09:51 AM
Wing did go through production issues, but I wouldn't say this distorted the ending much. It impacted the middle, and as I understand things it was mostly backstory and character development that got left on the cutting room floor. I never really got the impression that Zechs was crazy, in spite of the Gundam scientists' little opinion about his "maniacal schemes and evil plans." That's just their opinion, he was no more crazy than Treize--who is not. The very end is basically a CCA redux, at least they didn't copy it point for point. Most of final few episodes were quite independent, though.
For me, it holds up fine. Best ever? Eh...no. SEED's ending was better for one, and maybe others were depending on one's tastes. Heck, it was over the top but G Gundam's ending sure did deliver the goods and (AFAIK) didn't borrow from anything.
Now, if we count Endless Waltz, that is a contender for best ending. It was a nearly perfect send-off for the show.
Ackar
11-01-2007, 11:39 AM
Why is there so much hate for shows that take the time to have useful prologues and epilogues.
Some of you youngsters don't appreciate good storytelling. :gir:
Lazerboy5000
11-01-2007, 01:28 PM
Perhaps that they needed to get to 52 episode, but only had enough original materal for 37-39 episode. Then they would need to drag out the series to fit the 52 episodes.
That's just my thoughts.
Now, if we count Endless Waltz, that is a contender for best ending. It was a nearly perfect send-off for the show.
That was what i meant by the "ending", the OVAs.
bigdeath
11-01-2007, 04:22 PM
I think must gundam wing fans like me count Endless Waltz as the ending. And I live gundam wing; to me the story makes sense. First time I watched it I never lost track of the story. How was Zechs' plan any more crazy than chars' plan to force humans to migrate to and embrace outer space? Both involved dropping a large object onto earth to cause an endless winter.
HellCat
11-01-2007, 04:26 PM
My, we're playing the hokie cokie. Be more specific. The end of Gundam Wing and Endless Waltz aren't the same thing. The end of Gundam Wing is episode 49, since that ends the actual series.
My, we're playing the hokie cokie. Be more specific. The end of Gundam Wing and Endless Waltz aren't the same thing. The end of Gundam Wing is episode 49, since that ends the actual series.
thats like saying that The Fullmetal Alchemist movie wasnt the ending to the Fullmetal Alchemist anime, or that the Hunter X Hunter OVAs arent a part of the Hunter X Hunter anime.
Endless Waltz OVAs = Gundam Wings Ending.
HellCat
11-01-2007, 04:42 PM
It is the overall ending but this thread is discussing year long TV shows. The Endless Waltz ending wasn't created until about 2+ after the final episode aired. You yourself already mentioned both seperately.
It is the overall ending but this thread is discussing year long TV shows. The Endless Waltz ending wasn't created until about 2+ after the final episode aired. You yourself already mentioned both seperately.
i mentioned them in the same posts, probably even in the same sentences (i think).
DBZNarutoWarrior
11-01-2007, 08:31 PM
FMA is the exception. it's the only series I've seen that uses time management well.
Another case could be Death note, who realized 52 episodes would have been too much and 37 was enough to keep the pacing good without dragging.
Totally Agree FMA did do a fantastic job with the time management. Every episode of the series mattered, and even if you just learned a tiny bit of info, it was important info.
Death Note.... well.... I dunno
I thought that I read somewhere it was supposed to end on season 1 or SOMETHING loosely based around it.... I kind of felt once they included Mello and Near it started to drag, IMO introducing them that late wasn't a great move (also I never liked either of them due to the fact that their characters didn't have enough time to show any development or show exactly who they were). That's just what I think though....
I still like Death Note a lot though, and those episodes are good, but I just kind of got the feeling they were trying to drag it out just a tiny bit though lol.
RAINMAN
11-05-2007, 04:19 AM
Why is there so much hate for shows that take the time to have useful prologues and epilogues.
Some of you youngsters don't appreciate good storytelling. :gir:
Most of the time they are made just to drage the series out just for more eps. I don`t mind a good flashback but it should not take up a entire ep when it could be just 10 minutes or less.
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