What is adultswim's purpose? [Archive]

livingfruitvirus

10-12-2007, 02:09 PM

The only difference is some black & white bumps. Other than that I don't see what else [as] is for.

Networks are always putting programs that are different from their regular line-up into blocks. It makes the programs a little more recognizable, like Toonami. In AS's case, it lets the audience know that the programs not intended for kids are now on.

Besides, would anyone seriously want this?

http://www.101megahertz.com/images/FGpopup.jpg

Master Toon

10-12-2007, 02:25 PM

Networks are always putting programs that are different from their regular line-up into blocks. It makes the programs a little more recognizable, like Toonami. In AS's case, it lets the audience know that the programs not intended for kids are now on.

Besides, would anyone seriously want this?

http://www.101megahertz.com/images/FGpopup.jpg

You should've heard how loud I was laughing when I saw this. Anyway, if CN showed adult toons without it being a block, they don't necessarily have to put ads like that during the shows.

veemonjosh

10-12-2007, 03:02 PM

You should've heard how loud I was laughing when I saw this. Anyway, if CN showed adult toons without it being a block, they don't necessarily have to put ads like that during the shows.

But they would anyways.

Ykwia

10-12-2007, 03:15 PM

Besides, If there wasn't any [adult swim]. Then the channel would have trouble fitting into family tiers and would cause controversy among parent groups.

TheHootieBlowfish

10-12-2007, 03:18 PM

Besides, If there wasn't any [adult swim]. Then the channel would have trouble fitting into family tiers and would cause controversy among parent groups.

Also it gives something a marketing tool. Adult Swim has this sorta bad boy image about itself, something that people in the 7pm time slot would take offense too.

Master Toon

10-12-2007, 04:00 PM

Besides, If there wasn't any [adult swim]. Then the channel would have trouble fitting into family tiers and would cause controversy among parent groups.

So parents aren't smart enough to realize that at night more mature cartoons air and they need to be reminded by a few reminders throughout the night?

Also it gives something a marketing tool. Adult Swim has this sorta bad boy image about itself, something that people in the 7pm time slot would take offense too.

Huh?

btv

10-12-2007, 05:29 PM

So parents aren't smart enough to realize that at night more mature cartoons air and they need to be reminded by a few reminders throughout the night?

Huh?

No, you're completely missing the point that we keep telling you. Adult Swim is a BRAND. It's used in a BLOCK targeting a DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC then CN. If it was on CN and not Adult Swim, CN would be lambasted for advertising Lucy, The Daughter Of The Devil with new episodes of Camp Lazlo. The shows don't fit together. That's why it's in BLOCKS, because it's better to do it that way then to mix it all up and say 'oops' when parents get angry.

Besides, uncut Dragonball Z, even though it was still cut, was played in regular kid hours and mothers became angry over it. So, from lessons learned in the past, CN smartly made a NEW BRAND.

livingfruitvirus

10-12-2007, 05:49 PM

So parents aren't smart enough to realize that at night more mature cartoons air and they need to be reminded by a few reminders throughout the night?

When you consider....

http://www.101megahertz.com/images/FCCdata.gif

No. They're not very smart.

HG Revolution

10-12-2007, 05:57 PM

Rud

10-12-2007, 06:03 PM

If Adult Swim programs continued airing as part of regular CN, the ratings would be much better, the daytime and primetime programming would be less afraid of maturity, and we wouldn't be dealing with all the live-action crap.

Think about it. CN's downfall started around the time AS went on the air, and it quickly sped up once AS became its own ratings network.

how would being part of CN help Adult swims ratings?, Cartoonnetwork is very bad at handling shows and Adult swim does a much better job, they would probably just put in live action at night to try to copy nikelodeon (Nick at night), and we wouldnt have shows like GITS, The Boondocks, or Cowboy Bebop (we dint have them when there wasnt an adult swim and it was just CN or Midnight run)

CN's downfall happened just because other channels air better shows, (its obvious they are better because CN losses their audience to them), it isnt falling because of Adult Swim.

Adult Swims doing good because Adult Swim airs better shows.

btv

10-12-2007, 06:07 PM

how would being part of CN help Adult swims ratings?, Cartoonnetwork is very bad at handling shows and Adult swim does a much better job, they would probably just put in live action at night to try to copy nikelodeon (Nick at night), and we wouldnt have shows like GITS, The Boondocks, or Cowboy Bebop (we dint have them when there wasnt an adult swim and it was just CN or Midnight run)

CN's downfall happened just because other channels air better shows (its obvious they are better because CN losses their audience to them).

Adult Swims doing good because Adult Swim airsbetter shows.

yikes, I'd hate to see how people reply to this one.

Rud

10-12-2007, 06:10 PM

yikes, I'd hate to see how people reply to this one.

why, was it realy bad?

btv

10-12-2007, 06:11 PM

why, was it realy bad?

It wasn't offensive or anything, but the way you just kind of bullheaded your way in with an argument that really didn't represent anything was really off-putting. I'm not saying you're a bad person, but the post you made was not the best way to argue against what we're talking about here.

Networks are always putting programs that are different from their regular line-up into blocks. It makes the programs a little more recognizable, like Toonami. In AS's case, it lets the audience know that the programs not intended for kids are now on.

Besides, would anyone seriously want this?

http://www.101megahertz.com/images/FGpopup.jpg

Also, it was said before, but this is just hilarious. I laughed really hard when I saw this, great work there.

HG Revolution

10-12-2007, 06:12 PM

how would being part of CN help Adult swims ratings?, Cartoonnetwork is very bad at handling shows and Adult swim does a much better job, they would probably just put in live action at night to try to copy nikelodeon (Nick at night), and we wouldnt have shows like GITS, The Boondocks, or Cowboy Bebop (we dint have them when there wasnt an adult swim and it was just CN or Midnight run)

CN's downfall happened just because other channels air better shows (its obvious they are better because CN losses their audience to them).

Adult Swims doing good because Adult Swim airs better shows.

I said Adult Swim shows would help CN's ratings. Because if CN aired Boondocks and Family Guy, you can be sure they'd be getting better ratings. It would give them more variety. Cutting off Adult Swim hurt part of CN's variety, which would lead to their downfall and lack of good shows.

Rud

10-12-2007, 06:14 PM

It wasn't offensive or anything, but the way you just kind of bullheaded your way in with an argument that really didn't represent anything was really off-putting. I'm not saying you're a bad person, but the post you made was not the best way to argue against what we're talking about here.

sweet, i was going for something like that.

livingfruitvirus

10-12-2007, 07:18 PM

Rud

10-12-2007, 07:23 PM

Why can't CN just greenlight and make better shows like they used to?

Unfortunately, their more worried about what nick and disney are doing then how to improve theirselves.

Ykwia

10-12-2007, 07:39 PM

how would being part of CN help Adult swims ratings?, Cartoonnetwork is very bad at handling shows and Adult swim does a much better job, they would probably just put in live action at night to try to copy nikelodeon (Nick at night), and we wouldnt have shows like GITS, The Boondocks, or Cowboy Bebop (we dint have them when there wasnt an adult swim and it was just CN or Midnight run)

CN's downfall happened just because other channels air better shows, (its obvious they are better because CN losses their audience to them), it isnt falling because of Adult Swim.

Adult Swims doing good because Adult Swim airs better shows.

Uh, What good stuff have we had recently?

Well we've got Assy McGee, Lucy, Go Fish, and Minoriteam.

Now tell me, Which one of these shows are good again?

Why can't CN just greenlight and make better shows like they used to?

Managment. My friend.

HG Revolution

10-12-2007, 08:06 PM

Why can't CN just greenlight and make better shows like they used to?

Remember, a lot of their old shows like Samurai Jack, Justice League, even Dexter and PPG made money off older viewers as well as younger ones. Since Adult Swim is now separate from general CN, general CN doesn't benefit anymore from adults and as such tries to skew their programming towards a lower common denominator.

livingfruitvirus

10-12-2007, 08:24 PM

Managment. My friend.

Unfortunately, their more worried about what nick and disney are doing then how to improve theirselves.

And there's the problem in a nutshell, ladies and germs.

Remember, a lot of their old shows like Samurai Jack, Justice League, even Dexter and PPG made money off older viewers as well as younger ones.

That's ********. Cartoon Network has always had a focus on kids. Many of their original shows and classic cartoons had enough appeal to be enjoyed by older audiences, but Cartoon Network's goal in an advertising sense was, and still is, to sell to kids.

HG Revolution

10-12-2007, 08:35 PM

That's ********. Cartoon Network has always had a focus on kids. Many of their original shows and classic cartoons had enough appeal to be enjoyed by older audiences, but Cartoon Network's goal in an advertising sense was, and still is, to sell to kids.

The thing is they always focused on kids, but it wasn't the ONLY thing they cared about. A show could survive on ratings outside the child demographic back in the day. Now that Adult Swim is separate from CN, CN now feels the need to be more kid-exclusive. They were always kid-friendly or even kid-oriented (though Space Ghost: Coast 2 Coast and stuff like Toonheads were definitely aimed at older audiences, and if you listen to Gendy Tartakovsky talk, he always calls Samurai Jack a family show rather than a kids' show). Kid-exclusivity is rather recent to the network, and is what has been killing it.

Rud

10-12-2007, 09:02 PM

Uh, What good stuff have we had recently?

Well we've got Assy McGee, Lucy, Go Fish, and Minoriteam.

Now tell me, Which one of these shows are good again?

hey, those are quality shows (and the fact that they still air them means someone is watching), and Assy McGee is hilarious.

basides, swim has great shows like Morel Orel, Robot chiken, Lucy the Daughter of the devil, and those older ones (home movies for example).

And Adult swim still airs all their old finished series even though they are finshed, because they are good shows, mabey cartoonnetwork should look at Adult Swim and mabey air some of their older shows (Powerpuff girls, and Dexters laboratory, for example) along with their new shows.

HG Revolution

10-12-2007, 09:09 PM

hey, those are quality shows (and the fact that they still air them means someone is watching)

basides, swim has great shows like Morel Orel, Robot chiken, Lucy the Daughter of the devil, and those older ones (home movies for example).

And Adult swim still airs all their old finished series even though they are finshed, because they are good shows, mabey cartoonnetwork should look at that and mabey air some of their older shows (power puf girls, and dexters laboratory, for example) along some of their new shows.

Except PPG and Dexter don't fit AS's criteria.

They don't fit current CN's criteria either. That's why I think the two should merge and create a better middle ground. Each group of shows would help the others in the ratings and live-action and other crazy stunts won't need to be done.

Also, Minoriteam sucks.

Rud

10-12-2007, 09:13 PM

Except PPG and Dexter don't fit AS's criteria.

They don't fit current CN's criteria either. That's why I think the two should merge and create a better middle ground. Each group of shows would help the others in the ratings and live-action and other crazy stunts won't need to be done.

Also, Minoriteam sucks.

hey, i dont think airing CN's un-adult kid shows on late night when adult swim could be on is a good idea, and it definately wont be good to air the Adult stuff at the time when kids shows are supposed to be on, so what kind of middle ground are you talking about here?

(and minoriteam does suck, but there are people who like it so, so what)

The Myst

10-12-2007, 09:19 PM

hey, i dont think airing CN's un-adult kid shows on late night when adult swim could be on is a good idea, and it definately wont be good to air the Adult stuff at the time when kids shows are supposed to be on, so what kind of middle ground are you talking about here?

(and minoriteam does suck, but there are people who like it so, so what)

No, nobody liked it, and it got cancelled because of that.

HG Revolution

10-12-2007, 09:22 PM

hey, i dont think people will like CN's un-adult shows on late night when adult swim could be on, and it definately wont be good to air the Adult stuff at the time when kids shows are supposed to be on, so what kind of middle ground are you talking about here?

Stuff for the whole family. The Flintstones. Looney Tunes. The Simpsons. Animaniacs. The DCAU. Anime series like Case Closed and Inu-Yasha. Maybe even Home Movies or Futurama. All of these should be able to air on primetime.

Rud

10-12-2007, 09:27 PM

Stuff for the whole family. The Flintstones. Looney Tunes. The Simpsons. Animaniacs. The DCAU. Anime series like Case Closed and Inu-Yasha. Maybe even Home Movies or Futurama. All of these should be able to air on primetime.

But what about all the awesome hard core Adult swim stuff?, cause i just cant see The Boondocks, Morel Orel, Robot Chicken, Sea Lab, Aqua Teen, Assy McGee, GITS (you get the idea) airing as "Stuff for the whole family".

If they never had Adult Swim, these shows wouldnt be on TV for our enjoyment.

Besides CN would probably mess up Inuyasha and Futurama with edits, this network isnt like Fox, Bender's character would be destroyed (with the alcohol, cursing and smoking edits) and hes futurama's breakout character (and my personal favorite).

There has to be an Adult Swim.

Andrew T. Hingson

10-12-2007, 09:44 PM

CN's average would benefit from Adult Swim's overall viewership but having CN be a 24 hour network again might offset that boost with the issue of their total day ratings with the children's demographics they cherrish hurting a LOT. So it wouldn't be particularly benefitcial for either to merge into one ratings network again.

Adult Swim's purpose, has and always will be getting ratings and ad revenue out of the 18+ crowd who either causally enjoy animation or love it to death. They often air shows that may or may not be the best fit for 18+ viewers but their goal has never and will never change which only means they should keep doing their usual thing but get content more suitable for the audience they are trying to attract.

Because CN doesn't give a crap about the teenagers that watch, having any tamer AS shows part of CN's PT line-up wouldn't fit into their plans but IMO having stuff targeted to 12-17 in the later PT hours would make a great deal of sense despite how ellusive that demographic can be. In other cases there are some shows that might benefit from being targeted at a younger audience then even that but that would really only benefit those shows (if anything) and probably not CN itself.

Rud

10-12-2007, 09:52 PM

In other cases there are some shows that might benefit from being targeted at a younger audience then even that but that would really only benefit those shows (if anything) and probably not CN itself.

If the "some shows" that your talking about are Adult Swim stuff then i dont think itl be very "Ethical" to market them towards kids, itl just cause controversy, negative publicity, or worse give the many "concerned mothers" organizations more reasons to go against "amoral" shows (that i happen to enjoy).

I doubt any of that is good for CN or AS.

livingfruitvirus

10-12-2007, 10:09 PM

Except PPG and Dexter don't fit AS's criteria.

They don't fit current CN's criteria either.

How do they not fit? They're good shows that kids enjoy. You seem to have this belief that Cartoon Network as a cable television entity cannot physically make good kids' shows. Even though Nickelodeon keeps doing it.

HG Revolution

10-13-2007, 08:40 AM

But what about all the awesome hard core Adult swim stuff?, cause i just cant see The Boondocks, Morel Orel, Robot Chicken, Sea Lab, Aqua Teen, Assy McGee, GITS (you get the idea) airing as "Stuff for the whole family".

If they never had Adult Swim, these shows wouldnt be on TV for our enjoyment.

Besides CN would probably mess up Inuyasha and Futurama with edits, this network isnt like Fox, Bender's character would be destroyed (with the alcohol, cursing and smoking edits) and hes futurama's breakout character (and my personal favorite).

There has to be an Adult Swim.

Why can't Cartoon Network air all those shows late at night and market them to adults uncut while still being part of Cartoon Network?

How do they not fit? They're good shows that kids enjoy. You seem to have this belief that Cartoon Network as a cable television entity cannot physically make good kids' shows. Even though Nickelodeon keeps doing it.

Nickelodeon is smarter than CN, though. PPG and Dexter wouldn't even be greenlit by modern CN given how all new shows have to be scripted rather than storyboarded (Chowder supposedly uses boards, but they can only get away with that because CN needs to please Greenbladt, being one of the few actual proven talents they still have, in order to keep the miniscule respect they still have left from dropping)

Rud

10-13-2007, 10:33 AM

Why can't Cartoon Network air all those shows late at night and market them to adults uncut while still being part of Cartoon Network?

then it would just be the same as today, exept that these shows would be in the hands of the dumb people of CN instead of the capable hands of AS, which is a crappy idea. I mean these are he guys that are having Goosebumps take 2 hours of toonami time, not a good idea to giver these shows to CN.

Bsides, most of the shows (that arent aquisitions, like boondocks and anime) were produced by AS, so if AS dint exist they might not be around.

And CN could have aired more mature shows before AS was around, but they dint (dint have the balls probably), so what makes you think they would have aired the mature shows anyway, withought AS itd probably just be kids shows all night.

And i doubt the people at CN would have ever aquired shows like The Boondocks or GITS, with their kids network. (CN dint aqure shows like that before AS, so what makes you think if AS werent around, they would do it).

AS is neccesary

J'onn J'onzz

10-13-2007, 12:04 PM

then it would just be the same as today, exept that these shows would be in the hands of the dumb people of CN instead of the capable hands of AS, which is a crappy idea. I mean these are he guys that are having Goosebumps take 2 hours of toonami time, not a good idea to giver these shows to CN.

Bsides, most of the shows (that arent aquisitions, like boondocks and anime) were produced by AS, so if AS dint exist they might not be around.

And CN could have aired more mature shows before AS was around, but they dint (dint have the balls probably), so what makes you think they would have aired the mature shows anyway, withought AS itd probably just be kids shows all night.

And i doubt the people at CN would have ever aquired shows like The Boondocks or GITS, with their kids network. (CN dint aqure shows like that before AS, so what makes you think if AS werent around, they would do it).

AS is neccesary
Space Ghost Coast to Coast started out on Cartoon Network, and in its early days, I seem to remember Cartoon Network airing violent anime movies like Vampire Hunter D. Of course, these were in the earlier days, when CN had good management, and mostly late at night, but still...

Space Cadet

10-13-2007, 02:08 PM

Space Ghost Coast to Coast started out on Cartoon Network, and in its early days, I seem to remember Cartoon Network airing violent anime movies like Vampire Hunter D. Of course, these were in the earlier days, when CN had good management, and mostly late at night, but still...

Well, Vampire Hunter D was heavily edited anyway.

Rud

10-13-2007, 02:12 PM

Well, Vampire Hunter D was heavily edited anyway.

i thought so, but i couldnt comment back on that cause i never saw it.

HG Revolution

10-13-2007, 05:57 PM

then it would just be the same as today, exept that these shows would be in the hands of the dumb people of CN instead of the capable hands of AS, which is a crappy idea. I mean these are he guys that are having Goosebumps take 2 hours of toonami time, not a good idea to giver these shows to CN.

Bsides, most of the shows (that arent aquisitions, like boondocks and anime) were produced by AS, so if AS dint exist they might not be around.

And CN could have aired more mature shows before AS was around, but they dint (dint have the balls probably), so what makes you think they would have aired the mature shows anyway, withought AS itd probably just be kids shows all night.

And i doubt the people at CN would have ever aquired shows like The Boondocks or GITS, with their kids network. (CN dint aqure shows like that before AS, so what makes you think if AS werent around, they would do it).

AS is neccesary

But CN was never meant to be a kids' network. They made Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast, afterall. The whole "kids' network" thing only really came into play once the older viewers were relocated to Adult Swim. Remove Adult Swim while still airing adult shows, and you've removed many of the problems with CN's attitude and management.

Space Cadet

10-13-2007, 06:02 PM

But CN was never meant to be a kids' network. They made Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast, afterall. The whole "kids' network" thing only really came into play once the older viewers were relocated to Adult Swim. Remove Adult Swim while still airing adult shows, and you've removed many of the problems with CN's attitude and management.

If they were to remove AS, they would get rid of the adult shows. The rest of the time would be placed to their overplayed originals. The best we could hope for is that some of CN's older originals would be played in the late hours. They weren't doing much with Friday nights before AS took over.

And CN has always been a kids network. Sure they had shows that adults could watch, but it was always for kids.

blitzkrieg

10-13-2007, 06:06 PM

Why couldn't CN just air the shows at night and put a warning before them?

Adult Swim being a "network" instead of simply being a "block" on Cartoon Network means that its 18-34 average ratings are looked upon just as its own where prior to the "network split" it's 18-34 average ratings would be combined with Cartoon Network's. This is all a matter of advertising. This same basic reason can be explained for the the entire "Adult Swim" branding as it gives a strong idea for advertisers to latch onto.

So a simple answer to your question, because Turner makes more money this way.

HG Revolution

10-13-2007, 07:28 PM

If they were to remove AS, they would get rid of the adult shows. The rest of the time would be placed to their overplayed originals. The best we could hope for is that some of CN's older originals would be played in the late hours. They weren't doing much with Friday nights before AS took over.

And CN has always been a kids network. Sure they had shows that adults could watch, but it was always for kids.

But CN aired adult shows before AS took over. Toonheads, The Popeye Show, the Bob Clampett/Chuck Jones/Tex Avery shows, Space Ghost, Cartoon Planet, Johnny Bravo (essentially a sex comedy with no real child draw), The Big O (edited, but still), the anime specials, Brak, Sealab, and Aqua Teen all aired before Adult Swim came into play. They should have pushed further in that direction rather than making an adult block and thereby kidifying the rest of the network.

Classic Speedy

10-13-2007, 07:30 PM

Cartoon Planet is hardly what I'd consider an adult show.

HG Revolution

10-13-2007, 07:32 PM

Cartoon Planet is hardly what I'd consider an adult show.

Never seen much of it, but it was a spin-off of an adult show, and AS would later air it, so I assumed it was.

Classic Speedy

10-13-2007, 07:48 PM

Cartoon Planet always aimed a bit younger than SGC2C. This is evident in the multitude of upbeat, silly songs, the slower manner in which the characters talked (complete with frequently addressing the audience as "boys and girls" and "kids"), the lack of any subtle dialog or references aimed at older audiences, and the tone set up by the various segments ("Cartoon Planet Storybook"). I get the feeling that the show could easily air on morning/daytime blocks without any edits.

Don't get me wrong, I like the show, but even when it first aired I could tell it was for a younger audience compared to SGC2C.

J'onn J'onzz

10-13-2007, 11:35 PM

But CN aired adult shows before AS took over. Toonheads, The Popeye Show, the Bob Clampett/Chuck Jones/Tex Avery shows, Space Ghost, Cartoon Planet, Johnny Bravo (essentially a sex comedy with no real child draw), The Big O (edited, but still), the anime specials, Brak, Sealab, and Aqua Teen all aired before Adult Swim came into play. They should have pushed further in that direction rather than making an adult block and thereby kidifying the rest of the network. Looney Toons and Popeye weren't really "adult" IMO. They appealed to adults who saw them as kids, and were family shows, certainly less aimed at kids than, say, Gym Partner, but they were not "adult shows". Cartoon Planet was an afternoon kiddier version of Space Ghost, it airs on AS because basic CN has abandoned Space Ghost. And, you know, I saw Johnny Bravo on the Cartoon Cartoon show last week and was surprised that CN still airs it. I think CN DOES need to air some shows that not JUST the little kids can like, that have multiple levels, like Samurai Jack, Justice League, and some of the classics have.

The Myst

10-13-2007, 11:55 PM

Cartoon Planet had a few jokes aimed at an older audience. There were even a few references to Coast To Coast, like the time Moltar appeared.

livingfruitvirus

10-14-2007, 12:11 AM

Cartoon Planet was made for TBS' weekday afternoon kids' block.

HG Revolution

10-14-2007, 09:02 AM

Looney Toons and Popeye weren't really "adult" IMO. They appealed to adults who saw them as kids, and were family shows, certainly less aimed at kids than, say, Gym Partner, but they were not "adult shows". Cartoon Planet was an afternoon kiddier version of Space Ghost, it airs on AS because basic CN has abandoned Space Ghost. And, you know, I saw Johnny Bravo on the Cartoon Cartoon show last week and was surprised that CN still airs it. I think CN DOES need to air some shows that not JUST the little kids can like, that have multiple levels, like Samurai Jack, Justice League, and some of the classics have.

The Looney Tunes and Popeye were aimed at adults in theaters, and in those packages they aired uncut with extra historical stuff I doubt most kids would find interesting. The thing is that they're too mature for CN nowadays because they've kidified themselves so much.

AS stuff was already airing in 2000 before AS came into play. When AS came in, all the people who made old CN so great jumped ship and old CN suffered. Had AS never came in, and rather CN kept on pushing the content levels of their late-night programming, the network would be better today.

FinnMacCool

10-14-2007, 05:10 PM

I am certain of one thing: if the Adult Swim block hadn't been created, CN would never have greenlighted Moral Orel, Robot Chicken or Metalocalypse, or at least not without demanding enough edits to get them down to TV-PG or at least a light TV-14 rating. Orel unleashing naked zombies or impregnating sleeping women via a turkey baster (not to mention all the controversial religious topics) wouldn't have flown, Robot Chicken would definitely have to feature a lot fewer children being brutally murdered, and Metalocalypse . . . well, if it wasn't rated TV-MA for violence, it just wouldn't be Metalocalypse.

HG Revolution

10-14-2007, 05:13 PM

Space Cadet

10-14-2007, 05:16 PM

Why can't you air TV-MA programming outside of an adult block? I mean, last time I checked, all those MA shows on FX didn't get their own special block.

That's because FX targets adults. CN targets kids, even back then.

Rud

10-14-2007, 05:18 PM

Why can't you air TV-MA programming outside of an adult block? I mean, last time I checked, all those MA shows on FX didn't get their own special block.

well FX isnt a kids channel like CN, FX is like Adult Swim, a channel for everyone.

I say a channel for everone because ive been watching adult swim since 6th grade and that i know a family that watches Adult Swim "together" with kids and all (and im assuming that there are as many pree-teen and teens that watch adult swim that i think there are).

(I bet more non-adults watch Adult Swim than Actual adults do)

HG Revolution

10-14-2007, 05:19 PM

That's because FX targets adults. CN targets kids, even back then.

It could target both kids and adults. It was becoming increasingly adult in the time before AS premiered and then imploded. If they decided to push the envelope rather than kiddify, CN would be much better today.

Rud

10-14-2007, 05:20 PM

It could target both kids and adults. It was becoming increasingly adult in the time before AS premiered and then imploded. If they decided to push the envelope rather than kiddify, CN would be much better today.

yeah, whithout Moral Orel or The Boondocks, for obvious reasons.

FinnMacCool

10-14-2007, 05:26 PM

Why can't you air TV-MA programming outside of an adult block? I mean, last time I checked, all those MA shows on FX didn't get their own special block.

Here's the thing: the vast majority of the stuff Cartoon Network airs is targeted at children. They can have some shows that go a little more mature in terms of content and target audience, but, since the network's base demographic is so young, they can't have anything too inappropriate for children. Not without getting a whole lot of irate letters from parents and losing ad revenue, anyway. Putting all their adult shows in a different block clearly seperated from mainstream CN (content warning before it airs, totally different bumpers, no advertising for Adult Swim shows on CN and vice versa) gets watchdog groups off their backs, and treating it as a seperate network means people looking to advertise on CN don't have to worry that their product will be associated with the often violent, sexual, and controversial themes in Adult Swim programs.

FX and Comedy Central can air TV-MA shows without too much hassle because, as far as I know, neither channel has any child oriented content. Can you name one channel out there that airs TV-MA shows and shows for children 8 and under? There's a reason for that: from a marketing perspective, its preferable to have a base demographic and not stray too far from that.

HG Revolution

10-14-2007, 06:39 PM

well FX isnt a kids channel like CN, FX is like Adult Swim, a channel for everyone.

I say a channel for everone because ive been watching adult swim since 6th grade and that i know a family that watches Adult Swim "together" with kids and all (and im assuming that there are as many pree-teen and teens that watch adult swim that i think there are).

(I bet more non-adults watch Adult Swim than Actual adults do)

If Adult Swim is for everyone, why not have it take over? And why call it Adult Swim? Sounds like airing Adult Swim shows without the Adult Swim name would be the best possible ratings solution for both CN and AS.

Temple Fugate

10-14-2007, 06:39 PM

Here's the thing: the vast majority of the stuff Cartoon Network airs is targeted at children. They can have some shows that go a little more mature in terms of content and target audience, but, since the network's base demographic is so young, they can't have anything too inappropriate for children. Not without getting a whole lot of irate letters from parents and losing ad revenue, anyway. Putting all their adult shows in a different block clearly seperated from mainstream CN (content warning before it airs, totally different bumpers, no advertising for Adult Swim shows on CN and vice versa) gets watchdog groups off their backs, and treating it as a seperate network means people looking to advertise on CN don't have to worry that their product will be associated with the often violent, sexual, and controversial themes in Adult Swim programs.

FX and Comedy Central can air TV-MA shows without too much hassle because, as far as I know, neither channel has any child oriented content. Can you name one channel out there that airs TV-MA shows and shows for children 8 and under? There's a reason for that: from a marketing perspective, its preferable to have a base demographic and not stray too far from that.Quoted for truth. That's pretty much everything I was going to say after reading this whole thread.

One thing I'd like to add is a response to this post:

Remember, a lot of their old shows like Samurai Jack, Justice League, even Dexter and PPG made money off older viewers as well as younger ones. Since Adult Swim is now separate from general CN, general CN doesn't benefit anymore from adults and as such tries to skew their programming towards a lower common denominator.How do we know [as] is the reason CN has started to skew their demographics to exclude teens and adults? Maybe CN just decided that's the way to go for other reasons, like Nick and Disney, or some of the higher-ups made it a completely independent decision based on their own opinions. Just because A happened and B also happened doesn't mean A caused B.

HG Revolution

10-14-2007, 06:41 PM

Can you name one channel out there that airs TV-MA shows and shows for children 8 and under?

HBO.

Space Cadet

10-14-2007, 06:45 PM

HBO.

But, HBO and HBO Family are two different networks, aimed at different audiences.

HG Revolution

10-14-2007, 06:46 PM

One thing I'd like to add is a response to this post:
How do we know [as] is the reason CN has started to skew their demographics to exclude teens and adults? Maybe CN just decided that's the way to go for other reasons, like Nick and Disney, or some of the higher-ups made it a completely independent decision based on their own opinions. Just because A happened and B also happened doesn't mean A caused B.

It's the most logical conclusion, especially given that Adult Swim's first anime block was mostly stuff that could have aired on Toonami in years past with no more or less editing. That's already a shift, showing what was once acceptable for a general afternoon block then had to be on an "adult block". Remember, Mike Lazzo was the guy who managed CN for most of it's classic days, and if the management changed their minds about where CN would go it was because Lazzo left allowing those people to even get spots in management. Why was Lazzo's chair free? He had shifted duties to Adult Swim.

HG Revolution

10-14-2007, 06:46 PM

But, HBO and HBO Family are two different networks, aimed at different audiences.

Regular HBO still airs G-rated movies aimed at children.

FinnMacCool

10-14-2007, 06:52 PM

HBO.

Let me rephrase that: an ad-based channel that runs children's programs and TV-MA programs. HBO is different because it's subscription based. That means they don't have to worry about what advertisers think, because they don't have any advertisers, and groups like the Parents Television Council aren't on their case as much since anyone who has HBO chose to have HBO, rather than getting it as part of a general cable package. Being a subscription based channel also means that HBO can get away with lower viewership than most cable channels, since they make more money off each individual viewer than CN does.

FinnMacCool

10-14-2007, 06:54 PM

HG Revolution

10-14-2007, 07:02 PM

The other possibility is that Lazzo left CN for Adult Swim because of the shifting focus.

Well, there isn't really any evidence of a focus shift until AFTER Lazzo left. Kellner, the man generally blamed for the start of the fall, came to Turner a few months after Adult Swim production began.

Lutochris

10-15-2007, 12:30 AM

Temple Fugate

10-15-2007, 12:48 AM

It's the most logical conclusion, especially given that Adult Swim's first anime block was mostly stuff that could have aired on Toonami in years past with no more or less editing. That's already a shift, showing what was once acceptable for a general afternoon block then had to be on an "adult block". Remember, Mike Lazzo was the guy who managed CN for most of it's classic days, and if the management changed their minds about where CN would go it was because Lazzo left allowing those people to even get spots in management. Why was Lazzo's chair free? He had shifted duties to Adult Swim.I know I can't prove my point, and I can't disprove yours, but it should be pointed out that the only reason the first anime block had anime like Pilot Candidate and censored 0083 was because those shows were prepped for a daytime Toonami run, not a late-night adult block run. It did not represent a paradigm shift in programming, it represented a half-assed attempt to quickly start up a Saturday night anime block. InuYasha and all the anime that followed were not edited for Y7 audiences like those "snatched from Toonami" shows were.

CheezNapkin

10-15-2007, 08:21 PM

Networks are always putting programs that are different from their regular line-up into blocks. It makes the programs a little more recognizable, like Toonami. In AS's case, it lets the audience know that the programs not intended for kids are now on.

Besides, would anyone seriously want this?

http://www.101megahertz.com/images/FGpopup.jpg

You've got a point there. I've seen screenshots of certain Home Movies episodes with the Cartoon Network bug on the bottom :O

I think it was a great idea, personally.

The Nameless

10-15-2007, 10:28 PM

I've seen screenshots of certain Home Movies episodes with the Cartoon Network bug on the bottom :O.

Also, last year, AS aired the Futurama episode "War is the H-Word". For most of the first and second acts, the CN logo was at the bottom! :D :eek:

Ykwia

10-16-2007, 12:09 AM

yeah, whithout Moral Orel or The Boondocks, for obvious reasons.

Right, Because a Religious Show and a show that's based on the comic strip would be too much for CN

It would still exist even without [adult swim].

and Assy McGee has only butt, fart and drunk humor, all too common.
Which makes it a bad show in it's own.

Master Toon

10-16-2007, 11:20 AM

But, HBO and HBO Family are two different networks, aimed at different audiences.

Isn't Toonami aimed at a different audience, why isn't Toonami a network?

Andrew T. Hingson

10-16-2007, 01:11 PM

Isn't Toonami aimed at a different audience, why isn't Toonami a network?

It's focus is more towards 9-14 then the rest of CN's line-up but generally CN's prime time line-up is aimed at 9-14 and keep in mind Toonami still falls under CN's 6-11 demographic needs as well. And that's why a lot of shows didn't pan out.

But more importantly a network needs about as much air time as Adult Swim has currently to be considered a network for ratings purposes. The 4... currently 2 hours of Toonami a week are nowhere near enough to be a network for ratings purposes. And that my friend is common sense.

Dudley

10-16-2007, 05:39 PM

When you consider....

http://www.101megahertz.com/images/FCCdata.gif

No. They're not very smart.

Uh, I don't know if anyone said this yet, but the FCC doesn't cover cable channels.

But still, your answer to the question does remain true.

Blackstar

10-16-2007, 05:48 PM

Isn't Toonami aimed at a different audience, why isn't Toonami a network?

We've been over this, Matser Toon:

1. Toonami would need to have at least 12 hours of programming to qualify as a network. Toonami is only on about 4 hours a week. That's not nearly enough time or programming for it to be considered a network in it's own right. Toonami is therefore only a block on Cartoon Network.

2. Toonami can still be part of Cartoon Network because like CN it's aimed primarily at kids, albeit older ones. This is evident by the kind of ads that run during the shows. [adult swim], by contrast, is aimed at adults.

livingfruitvirus

10-16-2007, 10:07 PM

Uh, I don't know if anyone said this yet, but the FCC doesn't cover cable channels.

I know that. I was trying to display how many more people are complaining to the government about things on television. I was actually looking for a table I once found that DOES display complaints filed over cable television, even though the FCC cannot act on them. People actually DO write to the FCC to complain about cable.

We've been over this, Matser Toon:

1. Toonami would need to have at least 12 hours of programming to qualify as a network.

I believe it's closer to 40.

Temple Fugate

10-21-2007, 07:01 PM

Regarding the FCC chart: What the heck happened between 1994 and 1995?!

I believe it's closer to 40.Well that'd be easy enough if they just re-secured rights to every show they've ever run. (Yeah, fat chance. :shrug: )

Andrew T. Hingson

10-22-2007, 02:59 PM

They have more than enough shows for a Toonami only channel even without getting back the ones they don't have access to anymore but CN doesn't have the space to split the time between 3 seperate networks (well technically they have the time but I can't see CN giving Toonami 6 hours a day any day of the week much less all of them) for ratings purposes and none of them are going to branch off to another channel either. Though I guess it's a possibility to split 4 networks between CN's spot and Boomerang's spot.

Toonami will stay a block as long as its on CN, they have no reason to make it a network on the channel space.

Daikun

10-26-2007, 06:03 AM

You've got a point there. I've seen screenshots of certain Home Movies episodes with the Cartoon Network bug on the bottom :O

Also, last year, AS aired the Futurama episode "War is the H-Word". For most of the first and second acts, the CN logo was at the bottom! :D :eek:

The bug doesn't matter. The intrusive ads for kids' shows does.

MessyB

10-26-2007, 06:42 AM

Man, back in the day when we got nerd rage on just for those bugs. Station logo? On my TV show? GTFO. And now those days look really good.

GaryPotter

10-26-2007, 09:35 AM

There's no evidence to suggest that Cartoon Network had any regard for the 18+ demographic prior to Adult Swim.

The simple fact is that this whole "compartmentalized" thinking that you're accusing CN of having with regards to ratings (everything must fit into a certain demographic) isn't CN's fault. It's the advertisers that think in these terms, and thus the networks (ALL networks, not just CN) are forced to think this way also. CN was created by Turner as a means of competing with Nickelodeon, Disney, Fox Kids, Family, and other kids stuff back then, specifically for the kids' demographic.

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. CN may have been created to air stuff that was safe for kids, but history shows that it wasn't adverse to airing more mature things either. Remember weekday Toonami circa 2000-2003? They aired all kinds of stuff, albeit edited for Y7, but still the stuff was pretty intense. Captain Ginyu impaling himself in DBZ. Bathhouses in Tenchi Muyo. Gunfights in Outlaw Star A guy shooting his sister in Gundam. Constant talk about death and genocide on Yu Yu Hakusho.

Hopefully, you get my point.

Basically, what HG Revolution is saying is that once all the more intense shows left CN for AS, CN started pandering ONLY to the kids-exclusive Disney-esc crowd. Which is exactly why CN is in the hole that its in right now. Let's face it, the only shows on CN right now that cater to anyone beyond little kids are Naruto and One Piece.

Lutochris

10-26-2007, 06:13 PM

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. CN may have been created to air stuff that was safe for kids, but history shows that it wasn't adverse to airing more mature things either. Remember weekday Toonami circa 2000-2003? They aired all kinds of stuff, albeit edited for Y7, but still the stuff was pretty intense. Captain Ginyu impaling himself in DBZ. Bathhouses in Tenchi Muyo. Gunfights in Outlaw Star A guy shooting his sister in Gundam. Constant talk about death and genocide on Yu Yu Hakusho.

Hopefully, you get my point.

No, I don't. Because today we have all that, AND we also have blood and cursing.

Basically, what HG Revolution is saying is that once all the more intense shows left CN for AS, CN started pandering ONLY to the kids-exclusive Disney-esc crowd. Which is exactly why CN is in the hole that its in right now. Let's face it, the only shows on CN right now that cater to anyone beyond little kids are Naruto and One Piece.

And back in your so-called "glory days", the only shows that catered to anyone beyond little kids were the 2-3 shows at a time on Toonami that had occasional mature themes, and they were more censored than Toonami is today.

HG Revolution

10-26-2007, 09:48 PM

And back in your so-called "glory days", the only shows that catered to anyone beyond little kids were the 2-3 shows at a time on Toonami that had occasional mature themes, and they were more censored than Toonami is today.

What about the classics and the Williams Street shows?

Rud

10-26-2007, 11:57 PM

What about the classics and the Williams Street shows?

those are nowhere near as Mature as the shows that are on AS today.

Antiyonder

10-27-2007, 02:14 AM

those are nowhere near as Mature as the shows that are on AS today.

Just because a programs lacks profanity, gore and sexual situations doesn't mean it's lacking in maturity. Batman The Animated Series and Gargoyles is a good example of that. Even Avatar has a bit of maturity to it.

While I do enjoy the shows on Adult Swim, the only shows that strike me as mature are action animes like Bleach, Inuyasha and to a degree Futurama (while not anime). They have adult content true, but they don't rely on it as much as say Family Guy or Aqua Teen Hungerforce.

BCVM22

10-27-2007, 02:19 AM

Just because a programs lacks profanity, gore and sexual situations doesn't mean it's lacking in maturity. Batman The Animated Series and Gargoyles is a good example of that. Even Avatar has a bit of maturity to it.

This argument is always well and good, but I think it's fairly clear as to what sort of definition of "mature" is being used in the discussion here. Stuff like Looney Tunes, Cartoon Planet or early Coast to Coast certainly weren't lacking in "maturity" and they had their fair share of jokes that only the adults watching would get a chuckle out of, but content-wise they aren't in the same zip code as stuff that currently airs or has aired in the last few years on Adult Swim.

Antiyonder

10-27-2007, 02:33 AM

This argument is always well and good, but I think it's fairly clear as to what sort of definition of "mature" is being used in the discussion here. Stuff like Looney Tunes, Cartoon Planet or early Coast to Coast certainly weren't lacking in "maturity" and they had their fair share of jokes that only the adults watching would get a chuckle out of, but content-wise they aren't in the same zip code as stuff that currently airs or has aired in the last few years on Adult Swim.

If an adult does not cuss in every single sentence he/she says, does that make him/her less mature the the adult who cusses constantly? That's how I view the use of gratuitous content.

BCVM22

10-27-2007, 02:48 AM

If an adult does not cuss in every single sentence he/she says, does that make him/her less mature the the adult who cusses constantly? That's how I view the use of gratuitous content.

Which, again, is all well and good and I don't strictly disagree with you, but you're mincing definitions here. "Mature" has different definitions and I found it to be fairly clear in the context of this particular discussion that the word was being used to describe content that simply wouldn't be appropriate to show to younger (or "immature" viewers).

Antiyonder

10-27-2007, 03:07 AM

Which, again, is all well and good and I don't strictly disagree with you, but you're mincing definitions here. "Mature" has different definitions and I found it to be fairly clear in the context of this particular discussion that the word was being used to describe content that simply wouldn't be appropriate to show to younger (or "immature" viewers).

Understandable. The only reason I went to the trouble of making these posts is because unfortunately some people do equate lack of content to be immature. But I do understand that there are different meanings of the word.

Andrew T. Hingson

10-27-2007, 05:54 AM

I've always looked at it as "mature" means "mature", "adult" means "adult". They are not one and the same. "Adult" cartoons can be some of the most immature out there and some kid targeted programs are surprisingly "mature" but not "adult". Get it?

Tenchi Muyo and Outlaw Star were "mature" far more so than most of what Toonami airs today and thus why most of what Toonami airs today doesn't interest older viewers. They were censored a lot more though. So as far as content standards have gone they get away with a great deal more today but standards have also changed a bit that some Y7-FV programs would earn a PG today (and no I don't mean Goosebumps). I'm farely confident that the 2000-2001 edits of Tenchi, Outlaw Star and various Gundam series (that didn't edit guns out) would be PG today even edited to the previous Y7-FV standard for content on CN.

HG Revolution

10-27-2007, 08:47 AM

those are nowhere near as Mature as the shows that are on AS today.

Yes, but they're also leagues ahead of anything on modern day CN outside of Naruto and One Piece, which is what we're discussing.

Rud

10-27-2007, 10:12 AM

Yes, but they're also leagues ahead of anything on modern day CN outside of Naruto and One Piece, which is what we're discussing.

i thought we were discussing how CN would be better of without AS, or how it would not be better of without it but that CN's problems are their own fault.

so far ive only heard about how CN once aired shows that may have appealed to adults but were nowhere near what adult swim has now, and how AS somehow stoped that by airing shows CN would have never dared to show, which is realy ridiculous.

theres nothing stoping CN from airing shows like the ones that were mentioned here that they used to air (cause their nothing like the shows on AS), exept being stupid (CN that is, their recent decisions suck).

blitzkrieg

10-27-2007, 01:03 PM

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. CN may have been created to air stuff that was safe for kids, but history shows that it wasn't adverse to airing more mature things either. Remember weekday Toonami circa 2000-2003? They aired all kinds of stuff, albeit edited for Y7, but still the stuff was pretty intense. Captain Ginyu impaling himself in DBZ. Bathhouses in Tenchi Muyo. Gunfights in Outlaw Star A guy shooting his sister in Gundam. Constant talk about death and genocide on Yu Yu Hakusho.

Hopefully, you get my point.

Basically, what HG Revolution is saying is that once all the more intense shows left CN for AS, CN started pandering ONLY to the kids-exclusive Disney-esc crowd. Which is exactly why CN is in the hole that its in right now. Let's face it, the only shows on CN right now that cater to anyone beyond little kids are Naruto and One Piece.

Let's put it this way, there was no indication that CN was attracting advertising money from anyone that wasn't aiming for the young children/tween/teen market. It doesn't matter who is watching your shows unless someone is paying you in response to those people watching your shows.

I think that's the thing that people seemingly just don't get. If CN is in a hole now, it's not because they're pandering to kids, it's that they're not doing a good job of it. CN has ALWAYS been about attracting kids. It's why stuff that did good with adults but not with kids got late night slots where advertising dollars are being thrown around less and as a result ratings didn't mean all that much with their advertisers.

Temple Fugate

10-27-2007, 03:44 PM

I think that's the thing that people seemingly just don't get. If CN is in a hole now, it's not because they're pandering to kids, it's that they're not doing a good job of it. CN has ALWAYS been about attracting kids.That's a very good point. Actually if you think about it, CN's mid-90's marketing didn't actually give their demographic an age bracket. They were just a network for anyone who loves cartoons. Of course this was mostly kids, but they didn't put the "kids" before the "cartoon fans." Modern CN has been doing a lot of shows and a lot of promotional stunts that cater specifically and exclusively to kids, which is a lot of the reason I no longer watch 98% of the channel.

Also making the network more about kids and less about cartoons is slapping an expiration date on your market. As the kids grow up, they're going to stop watching because it is clearly branded as "kids material." I watched CN all the way through my teens and didn't feel ashamed about it at all. Then came the kid-centric marketing campaigns of the mid-2000's and now I feel the same way about watching CN as I do about watching Nick or Disney. Not ashamed, no, but...unsatisfied.

I've never been a fan of treating kids on a kid's level. Even as a kid I enjoyed shows that challenged me, that didn't talk down to me. CN is doing a lot of talking down lately. They're asking "What would kids like to watch?" instead of "If I were a kid, what would I like to watch?"

Antiyonder

10-27-2007, 07:22 PM

That's a very good point. Actually if you think about it, CN's mid-90's marketing didn't actually give their demographic an age bracket. They were just a network for anyone who loves cartoons. Of course this was mostly kids, but they didn't put the "kids" before the "cartoon fans." Modern CN has been doing a lot of shows and a lot of promotional stunts that cater specifically and exclusively to kids, which is a lot of the reason I no longer watch 98% of the channel.

Also making the network more about kids and less about cartoons is slapping an expiration date on your market. As the kids grow up, they're going to stop watching because it is clearly branded as "kids material." I watched CN all the way through my teens and didn't feel ashamed about it at all. Then came the kid-centric marketing campaigns of the mid-2000's and now I feel the same way about watching CN as I do about watching Nick or Disney. Not ashamed, no, but...unsatisfied.

I've never been a fan of treating kids on a kid's level. Even as a kid I enjoyed shows that challenged me, that didn't talk down to me. CN is doing a lot of talking down lately. They're asking "What would kids like to watch?" instead of "If I were a kid, what would I like to watch?"

That's exactly why the cartoons produced by Bruce Timm turned out as they did too. So yeah, it would be a good start.

Lutochris

10-28-2007, 02:15 AM

HG Revolution

10-28-2007, 09:25 AM

You can say all you want about the subtle maturity in their early shows, and their lack of directly being branded at a "kids" network. You will never convince me that they produced shows or made programming decisions with anything other than a 14 and under age group in mind. Most likely, the reason some of their early shows had a level of mature humor was because, in the early days, the creators and artists probably had more free reign over their product, as the network was still in its infancy and thus much more under the radar than it is today.

Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast was made for 18-34 year olds. A lot of the classics they aired were made for all ages and were sometimes marketed towards adults when aired on CN. The first batch of Cartoon Cartoons were mainly student film projects, and I think those are generally made to please the creator/the teachers rather than a specific demographic. Adult ratings were actually counted and promoted when Samurai Jack first hit the air. Adult anime movies aired late at night, as did the first several episodes of Sealab and Aqua Teen Hungerforce (both of which were in development long before AS was, and ATHF was actually destined for Toonami at one point). Add in stuff like Gundam and Big O on Toonami and I think its fair to say that old CN was more of a family network, while modern CN is more of a kids network.

Rud

10-28-2007, 12:24 PM

DarthGonzo

10-28-2007, 03:10 PM

Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast was made for 18-34 year olds.

If CN was made for the same age bracket than as it is now how come 90% of the guests that ended up on Space Ghost Coast to Coast were people kids probably never heard of? CN knew they had adult viewers back then, and they threw them a bone, years before Adult Swim.

Space Ghost Coast to Coast would never fly on non Adult Swim hours today. Never.

blitzkrieg

10-28-2007, 04:50 PM

If CN was made for the same age bracket than as it is now how come 90% of the guests that ended up on Space Ghost Coast to Coast were people kids probably never heard of? CN knew they had adult viewers back then, and they threw them a bone, years before Adult Swim.

Space Ghost Coast to Coast would never fly on non Adult Swim hours today. Never.

It never did. Space Ghost Coast to Coast aired Friday nights at 11 pm and Saturday night at midnight. So not exactly an example of CN's general appeal in the early days.

HG Revolution

10-28-2007, 06:12 PM

so CN once aired shows that may have appealed to adults but were nowhere near what adult swim has now, and im hearing that AS somehow stoped that by airing shows CN would have never dared to show, which is realy ridiculous.

theres nothing stoping CN from airing shows like the ones that were mentioned here that they used to air (cause their nothing like the shows on AS), exept being stupid (CN that is, their recent decisions suck).

Adult Swim may currently air stuff that CN couldn't have, but that wasn't always the case. Out of their original line-up, only Harvey Birdman and Cowboy Bebop were made specifically for the block. AS has evolved into something more, but who is to say CN couldn't have evolved without AS?

Rud

10-28-2007, 07:02 PM

Adult Swim may currently air stuff that CN couldn't have, but that wasn't always the case. Out of their original line-up, only Harvey Birdman and Cowboy Bebop were made specifically for the block. AS has evolved into something more, but who is to say CN couldn't have evolved without AS?

CN would have evolved to something that isnt AS, and i still dont see how its Adult Swims fault that CN has been droping the ball.

AS's creation was a great thing cause now i have something to watch late at night.

bsides, when was the case that CN could Air stuff that adult swim has, never. The Boondocks (and other shows) would not have aired on CN withought AS, Theres no way they would have gotten away with showing shows like that on a kid channel, AS is neccesary.

Temple Fugate

10-28-2007, 07:14 PM

It would have evolved to something that isnt AS, and i still dont see how its Adult Swims fault that CN has been droping the ball.That's because it's not.

Most likely, the reason some of their early shows had a level of mature humor was because, in the early days, the creators and artists probably had more free reign over their product, as the network was still in its infancy and thus much more under the radar than it is today.Agreed. It's unfortunately suffering the same fate that every network suffers. As it matures and gets more attention the people in charge think less about what makes the network DIFFERENT from the competition and they start thinking more about what they can do to combat the bigger, more established networks because suddenly they've got a shot to break out.

Infancy: They take bigger risks, because what is there to lose? (1990's CN)
Maturity: They start compromising and adopting generalized practices in order to attract viewers from other channels. (modern CN)
Adulthood: Could go one of two ways: They fear for losing their precious audience that has gotten them so far, so they continue to make "safe" decisions never to change again; Or they become so secure in their standing that they start to take risks again and become a truly innovative and popular network. (Guess which one we'd prefer for the 2010's?)

The Myst

10-30-2007, 03:00 AM

Antiyonder

11-01-2007, 06:54 AM

Temple Fugate

11-01-2007, 10:00 AM

Frankly I want to know what the point is of even airing live action shows on the block.

Yes, I'm fully aware that the block doesn't specify itself as animation only, but live action programs targeted towards adults can be found anywhere. So why does AS need to air it. Heck, I believe when the block first premiere, and was fully animation that it actually beat many late night blocks in the ratings.But can you see a show like Saul of the Mole Men anywhere outside [as] and local channels' made-next-door programming?

I can't blame them for trying to expand their techniques, but obviously live-action is not really working out for them. [as] is doing things that I just can't get my head around lately, and it's not because they're making stuff on a higher level than I'm capable of thinking.

Just remember, the license to do whatever you WANT to do doesn't mean you SHOULD do everything you want to do. Hopefully they'll wise up to this before FOX's rights to Slayers expire.

Antiyonder

11-01-2007, 01:31 PM

But can you see a show like Saul of the Mole Men anywhere outside [as] and local channels' made-next-door programming?

I can't blame them for trying to expand their techniques, but obviously live-action is not really working out for them. [as] is doing things that I just can't get my head around lately, and it's not because they're making stuff on a higher level than I'm capable of thinking.

Just remember, the license to do whatever you WANT to do doesn't mean you SHOULD do everything you want to do. Hopefully they'll wise up to this before FOX's rights to Slayers expire.

I don't see why it can't air at night on TBS. It's for adult and is live action. Perfect fit.

suncrafter

11-07-2007, 04:21 AM

Also it gives something a marketing tool. Adult Swim has this sorta bad boy image about itself, something that people in the 7pm time slot would take offense too.

I think you nailed it there... Keeping the bad boy image going.

Lavenderpaw

11-07-2007, 06:14 AM

Why couldn't CN just air the shows at night and put a warning before them?

It's a named block,a subsection of CN that gets to be in it's own little limitless world that pretends it doesn't have more civil and squeaky clean shows out there.Also,where else are RJ,Futurama,Family Guy and ATHF goin'?

HG Revolution

11-07-2007, 01:56 PM

It's a named block,a subsection of CN that gets to be in it's own little limitless world that pretends it doesn't have more civil and squeaky clean shows out there.Also,where else are RJ,Futurama,Family Guy and ATHF goin'?

Futurama is pretty much a family show, albeit one with some risque content.

And Aqua Teen Hungerforce originally premiered on CN late-night a year before AS went on the air, and was actually in production as a Toonami series.