Better KP finale.

[I.R Joey]

So I finally got to see Graduation all the way through. Just thought I'd ask which people thought was a better finale.

Honestly, I still think that So The Drama had more resonance. Graduation was nice too though I never nderstood the whole Drakken/Shego romance thing some people wanted.

[Caswin]

Other: "Team Impossible."

[jeff_iz_XLent]

Uh...guys,the ending was the Graduation episode.Yo-kay?;)

[Don_East]

Uh...guys,the ending was the Graduation episode.Yo-kay?;)
No, the topic is WHICH is the better ending. So The Drama(The Original Ending) or Graduation(The Final Ending).

[SuperStantzio]

I chose Graduation the final ending. Because I felt that it closed up all the tie ups during the series and I didn't expect drakken/shego pairing to pop up. And this was my favorite by the way. :D

[Nygma]

Other: "Team Impossible."


It's not an option on here. Team Impossible while a great episode isn't something I'd say ties up loose ends in a finale like way.

Anyways, So The Drama the choice for me is not even close to hard. Graduation while it has its moments is also really frustrating at the same time, IMO it can't hold a candle to So The Drama. Though I have to say that the animation in Graduation probably beats it out, but thats it.

So The Drama works on so many levels (Drakken comes up with a plan so brilliant it easily puts any other villains attempt to shame and gives him a great presence that makes it easily his best appearance, that and we had the culmination of Kim and Ron's feelings come to fruition. In beautiful fashion I might add.)

In Graduation, the best part of the episode was Ron's feelings towards what might happen after graduation with him, Kim, and college(Ron using his MMP was cool, but felt too convenient for my liking). The problem is, this never really gets the payoff it deserves, unlike his characterization in STD which gets a beautiful payoff. All we got was a metaphor of him and Kim heading to the stars together, but the story would've been a hell of alot better if we got something, ANYTHING signifying that Kim and Ron go to the same college.
I know Steve Loter had stated that the alternate ending had this and that they do end up in the same college, but personally I would've fought like hell to make sure Kim and Ron getting into the same college would've been obvious to anybody watching. The fact that Loter seems to be the only one who declares this as canon gets on my nerves a little.
Open endings pretty much suck, don't they?

The other problem was the main villain, Warhok. Unlike other posters, I thought Warhok could've worked in 44 minutes if done correctly. They did a good job building him up in part 1, I thought Kim and Drakken's escape was even handled intelligently. But the minute that stupid off switch:mad: (the stupidest, most god awful excuse for a plot device I've seen since The Batman used that bloody damn racoon in a Season 2 episode) came into play, the tension Warhok supplied was no longer there.
If a villain's plan can be interrupted by something as simple flipping a switch, is he really an intelligent threat? After that he was treated as incompetent, a potential KP clown on a show full of them. I mean yeah you could level that criticism to Rufus helping Kim and Ron in STD. But STD had many more layers, and the main antagonist feeling like a true threat to bail out that slip up. Warhok had limited to no exposure, so we had very little to judge him upon after that.
At this point the only thing he had going for him was the build up, his machines, and the fact that he was voiced by Ron Perlman. I know KP is mostly comedic based, but they should've just left the comedic stuff to the main 4, and just kept the antagonist's as serious. Of course I'm sure Disney BS & P has been watching over their shoulders for this, just like the rest of the series. (Grande Size Me, no coffeee can be mentioned in Stop Team Go even though they had bloody coffee in one episode, and butchering the ending we should've gotten. No Disney, I have not forgotten.:mad:)

Good finale, but could've been a belter if just a little more work went into it.

Whew, that was a lot.

[Uncle Beaglebub]

This line of debate just had to happen, didn't it?

[I.R Joey]

This line of debate just had to happen, didn't it?

It's Toonzone.

Nygma summed up many of my points.

[Uncle Beaglebub]

It's Toonzone.


LOL You can say that again! Only in Toonzone.....

Seriously, when people ask what made a "better finale" what you're really getting at is "was S4 a mistake". Because if StD were the finale it wouldn't exist, now would it?

[Wolf Boy2]

This line of debate just had to happen, didn't it?
Why not? It's just like the Justice League debate over whether "Epilogue" (intended finale) or "Destroyer" (actual finale) was better.

Personally, I don't care how KP ends ... as long as it does end.:evil:

[LeopoldStotch]

This was a good finale...for a season...this finale though left more questions than it answered.

[Mad Mod 49]

Graduation. STD suffers from the "Kim and Ron finally get together at the end of the show" syndrome, so I'm quite glad it wasn't the end of the show after all. Also, I could never get over Kim's boyfriend/Drakken's lieutenant getting offed by Rufus. :yawn:

[TheBaldOneMpls]

STD suffers from the "Kim and Ron finally get together at the end of the show" syndrome, so I'm quite glad it wasn't the end of the show after all.
So the Drama in a nutshell:
"Kim and Ron will finally get together!!! Or will they??? No, she likes someone else!!! (Oh yeah, by the way, Drakken's got this thing going on...)"

It wasn't so much that it happened, but that it took so much presidence over everything else. Graduation, though, had a good balance of action and character time. Gotta go with Graduation.

[thartman1956]

I chose "So The Drama". While I felt "Graduation" was a fine ending to the series. my main concern was it it felt rushed. Now if "Graduation" was made into an Disney Original Movie, I might have voted differently. While Warhok had the makings of a major villain, I felt that Ron dispatched him far to easily. I think Warmonga was a little more effective as a villain.

"So The Drama" had a far better set-up, climax, and payoff. The animation was better, and it had awesome special effects. Drakken and Shego was far more menacing than Warhok and Warmonga was in "Graduation". For a time, I felt that Drakken was really going to succeed in his plan. I must add here that this was a tough call to make.

[creativerealms]

If Graduation was three parts I would have chose it. It felt too rushed compared to So the Drama which was very well paced. Also Doth stories tried to deal with a global threat and I believe So the Drama did a better job at that too.

[Nygma]

LOL You can say that again! Only in Toonzone.....

Seriously, when people ask what made a "better finale" what you're really getting at is "was S4 a mistake". Because if StD were the finale it wouldn't exist, now would it?

That has nothing with whether I liked season 4 or not, for the most part I did, despite there being 1 or 2 stinkers. Its just like in JLU, I thought Epilogue was better than Destroyer. But Destroyer was more than a worthy swan song for JLU.

My frustration with Graduation has to do with Ron worrying about Kim/college never getting a worthy conclusion. I thought it deserved closure since the plot line took up two episodes, but it was left unresolved, LAME. What frustrates me more is that they originally planned for it but it got axxed by Disney Channel. Because apparently its okay to talk about college/moving on, but its not ok to show it because it doesn't "connect with the core audience", I'll bet if this was High School Musical they'd let them get away with it.:p

This just reminds me of a situation in Spider-Man TAS, when Farewell Spider-Man ended without Peter finding Mary Jane. To me, both of these solutions got over like a fart in church.

Say what you might about AD:JL's "The Hong Kong Longs" being rushed. But it did everything it possibly could to give the series closure.


This was a good finale...for a season...this finale though left more questions than it answered.

My thoughts exactly.


Graduation. STD suffers from the "Kim and Ron finally get together at the end of the show" syndrome, so I'm quite glad it wasn't the end of the show after all. Also, I could never get over Kim's boyfriend/Drakken's lieutenant getting offed by Rufus. :yawn:

At least it was nowhere near as bad as Monkey Fist's swan song. Seriously his final defeat ends up being an infant jumping on his face because of her dancing to an infant's show, WTH?

[FightingDreamer]

Gonna have to go with So the Drama. It's the first, only, and last time Drakken ever feels like a legitimate threat, there's action and eye candy galore, and we finally got a resolution to the K/R thing. If you ask me, the writers pulled it off way better than I thought they would, making it genuinely romantic but still comedic. Oh, and there are some great moments given to the Possible family members, who are quite possibly my favorite characters in the show. I especially like Dad Possible's taunting Drakken and Drakken's response: "Urggh! Why does every Possible I capture feel the need to give me lip?"

While Season 4 had some fairly good episodes, it also had some really pointless, dull, and unnecessary ones. While I didn't see all of "Graduation", what I did see, other than Ron opening up a can of whup-butt on Warhok/Warmonga, didn't impress me. So The Drama beats it by a long shot.

[quote] Also, I could never get over Kim's boyfriend/Drakken's lieutenant getting offed by Rufus [quote]

Ah, c'mon, that part ruled! Rufus got payback for Eric's snide comment about how naked mole rats blow chunks. Foolish robot! Ye must be punished!:D

[Mad Mod 49]

Ah, c'mon, that part ruled! Rufus got payback for Eric's snide comment about how naked mole rats blow chunks. Foolish robot! Ye must be punished!:D

Yeeeah, let Rufus get revenge for ONE measley remark rather than Ron getting revenge for the whole movie's worth of misery Eric inflicted. :yawn:

[FightingDreamer]

Yeeeah, let Rufus get revenge for ONE measley remark rather than Ron getting revenge for the whole movie's worth of misery Eric inflicted. :yawn:

True, but they made up for it with this awesome moment:
Ron: Taking over the world is one thing, but you ruined Bueno Nacho. You're gonna pay.
Drakken: You can't be serious.
Ron: Note the serious face.
Drakken: Please, have mercy, uh, the name escapes me, oh, I beg of you.
Ron: Say my name. SAY IT!
Drakken: It's... uh, er, r-r-r-Ron s-s-...Stoppable!
Ron: [quietly] Boo-ya.

Yet another reason I think this is the proper series finale: Closure.

[I.R Joey]

So the Drama in a nutshell:
"Kim and Ron will finally get together!!! Or will they??? No, she likes someone else!!! (Oh yeah, by the way, Drakken's got this thing going on...)"

It wasn't so much that it happened, but that it took so much presidence over everything else. Graduation, though, had a good balance of action and character time. Gotta go with Graduation.

For me that's what made So The Drama so much more interesting then Graduation. There was a sense of tension, and real romance. Ron got to be introspective, Kim got to reflect on the idea that she was scaring of guys, and Drakken was a threat (as was mentioned in the thread.) They pulled out pretty much all the stops for that special.

Graduation was cool, I liked the idea of Ron's power being linked to his protecting the woman he cares about, but the ending wasn't anywhere near as resonant. I mean the song "Could it be" and the dance scene was bar none the most emotionally satisfying scene the show ever reached for (and hit it dead center.) Kim and Ron just flying off vaugely towards the moon was, well vauge and didn't leave me as satisfied.

[W.C.Reaf]

My frustration with Graduation has to do with Ron worrying about Kim/college never getting a worthy conclusion. I thought it deserved closure since the plot line took up two episodes, but it was left unresolved, LAME. What frustrates me more is that they originally planned for it but it got axxed by Disney Channel. Because apparently its okay to talk about college/moving on, but its not ok to show it because it doesn't "connect with the core audience", I'll bet if this was High School Musical they'd let them get away with it.:p
I would've hated it even more if they managed to do that. Sure it sounds like a good ending except for the fact that they shoved it in our faces that Ron hasn't got accepted into any college yet and probably never will. It would make no sense if he just showed up at Kim's college and went "Oh yer I go here too".

I'm surprised they didn't put something in there to mess with Disney because that's what they seem to like to do instead of creating quality programming. :mad:

[Light Lucario]

I'm going with Graduation. To me, it had much more closure compared to So the Drama. Given the time the special was given, I really didn't think that Graduation was rushed at all. I could see them doing more with the villians and possibly the battle if they gave this special another half-hour, but it seemed fine to me. I also felt that it tied up the story in a nice way, with Kim and Ron saving the world from the alien invasion and Ron being comfort with the fact that he and Kim would get through it all. It felt like a better conclusion that just Kim and Ron kissing at the end of their dance. I do wish that they did give more conclusion on Kim and Ron's future together, especially with the whole college issue, but that was really my only complaint about Graduation.

[Nygma]

except for the fact that they shoved it in our faces that Ron hasn't got accepted into any college yet and probably never will. It would make no sense if he just showed up at Kim's college and went "Oh yer I go here too".

Key word being "yet". And considering Ron's accomplishments (mostly in senior year) why would it not make sense for him to get into college, to me that makes less sense than what you posted. And remember, this isn't the real world were talking about, in the KP world something like Ron getting acceptance letters at the last minute is more than logical.


I'm surprised they didn't put something in there to mess with Disney because that's what they seem to like to do instead of creating quality programming. :mad:

Because Disney for the most part has the last say, before anything goes on to the small screen. Things like that rarely get by them these days, sadly.:(

[Dr. Dave]

I found both episodes to be excellent ways of ending the series. However, I think I like So The Drama just a little bit more. Perhaps because I found watching Ron's world fall apart ("I'm losing everything I ever cared about.") very touching (and a little painful to watch).

Two great episodes. Too bad it's over.:sweat:

[thartman1956]

...in the KP world something like Ron getting acceptance letters at the last minute is more than logical.

Maybe he a got a football scholarship (as a running back) to the same school Kim's attending.

[Netbug009]

I gotta go with Graduation. It's a hard pick, but it feels more complete.

[tucsoncoyote]

So I finally got to see Graduation all the way through. Just thought I'd ask which people thought was a better finale.

Honestly, I still think that So The Drama had more resonance. Graduation was nice too though I never nderstood the whole Drakken/Shego romance thing some people wanted.

Well Joey, Let 'the coyote' explain it to you in a rather long, drawn out, nutshell.. You wanted shipping? You got it in spades..

But let's be honest and fair here. After all Joey, Maybe I should go back and remind you it was you yourself who wanted Ron and Kim to get together (Need I call the riot act with the Emotion Sickness talkback?) and So the Drama really wasn't the real end folks really wanted. (They felt that leaving it at the Junior Prom was okay to some, but to others? Kim and Ron had to Graduate..in the worst possible way (No Pun intended)

So in the end, Season 4's theme was "Everything Changes". And Graduation proved this point to it's full recourse.

In those final 44 minutes, a lot of things happen, and in fact you see a lot of changes. Let's start off at the top.

Drakken Starts a new Scheme, this time using evil plants as a theme, Plan fails, Drakken mutates, and now we have an Evil Scientist playing a part in a school play as a Pansey.

Jump ahead to Ron and Kim getting ready to graduate, but Barkin just like his evil self (yes folks Barkin is Ron Stoppable's bane!) puts a kink in the entire happy day with his "The Center will not Hold" Speech to Ron.

Ron gets worried and in a way feels kind of trapped (Especially since Kim is the rockstar and he's just the comic relief..) So Ron freaks.. Typical Ron.

But then of course here come the aliens.. and all of a sudden, just true to form in Season 4.... Everything changes..

Ron decides to take the initiative to save his girlfriend, with Help from Kim's Dad, and Shego, he hurtles headlong into danger facing down perhaps two of the most underplayed villains in the entire series..(Warhok I might add, would have been quite a threat had the folks at Disney made this a three parter rather than a two parter..

But in the end, It's that Change that shows that the buffoons are the real heroes here..That's the theme of this final change.. Never underestimate either Drakken or Ron. Because when they got to going on their own paths, Both buffoons showed the world that even an idiot can get downright serious.

Sure, for the last 4 seasons they were the bumbling idiots.. but for the first time ever both succeed..and in ways no one imagines..

Drakken succeeds in getting his Plant plan to acutally work to defeat the alien technology.. and Ron's Destiny is with his girlfriend Kim.. and when Ron finally goes totally monkey on the Aliens? Let's just say Kim's shocked look is.."This is MY boyfriend?!!!" but it's Shego's comment to Drakken that really slams home the fact that Ron Stoppable isn't just a buffoon anymore, but rather a very powerful hero himself.

Drakken: Wait, What happened? What did I miss?
Shego: I don't know, but I think the buffoon Stepped up... Monkey Style!
Drakken: Monkey Style?!!! Errgh, What's that?
Shego: You just had to be here..

Believe me I.R. So the Drama was just the appitizer here, as yes we see Kim and Ron take it to the next level in terms of their friendship becoming a real boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. But in Graduation, we see the Buffoons step up and prove everyone wrong.. Drakken gets his success and the recognition he deserves, while Ron finally realizes his full Monkey Master Potential, and Kicks some serious alien patootie, while shocking his girlfriend with the fact that he is just as powerful, (if not more so), than she is. Ron Stoppable could be considered a major threat here, and Shego's final comments are a fact that if Shego ever had to face down Kim, and she beat Kim senseless, She would have to face Ron Stoppable's wrath.. Something that you wouldn't ever want to meet in a dark alley.

So did this series find some closure? The answer is both yes and no.. The closure of Kim and Ron being together is one thing.. The Drakken / Shego Ship is something else the fans wanted..(and it shows).

So then I.R. Final Comment.. Was Graduation worth it? I think it was. In a way everyone won, no one really lost..(Except maybe Warhok, and Warmonga, being done in by Ron Stoppable).. Ron Stoppable, Buffoon, loser, total zero, to total hero.

I don't know if I can even come up with anything more than that.. So I'll leave it at that..

:coyote:

[judyindisguise]

I liked both of them.