Why did Anime get its name?

[FriendlyMushroom]

Why did Anime start being called anime? I mean, it just means "animation" in Japanese, so why is there a distinction between anime and cartoons?

[Jave]

It's just a word that in proper context means "Japanese Animation".

I guess that people wanted a shorter word to refer to it. Dunno exactly how it originated, but the meaning is not meant to separate it from cartoons as a whole.

[MonkeyFunk]

I was curious too, so I looked up "anime" in the Oxford English Dictionary (lists not just the meanings of words but also the earliest recorded usage in the English language that the OED academics have found). The earliest quote is a newsgroup posting from 1985 where somebody mentions that in Japan stills from animation are used to make "anime comics".

It also cites a 1988 Mac magazine where someone mentions "Japanese anime-style animated cartoons".

Not much help, I know, but kind of interesting I suppose...

[The Weed Of Cri]

If you want to know the origin of a foreign word, research the culture in which it originated, not domestic dictionaries (and not local otaku, either). "Anime" originated in Japan in the early twentieth Century, when Japan was still in an early stage of industrialization and their language had few words for modern technological concepts like animated cartoons. So they did what any culture does when their language comes up short: they borrowed words from other cultures, in this case, English, because most of the information that led to Japan's modernization was coming from English-speading nations. But "animation" was a difficult word to translate into Japanese, because of the confusion, non-phonetic pronunciation of "-tion". The shortened word, "anime" was, by contrast, very easy to pronounce and spell in Japanese, requiring only three symbols in the katakana (the Japanese alphabet most frequently used for spelling non-Japanese words), whereas "animation" required six symbols.

Remember that in Japan, "anime" doesn't just identify their home-made cartoons, but refers to all animation. In Japan, Disney is anime, Hanna-Barbera is anime, Pixar is anime. (Wanna see a hardcore otaku pop an artery? Just walk up to one at an anime convention and repeat the previous two sentences.)

The pictographic nature of the Japanese language -- and the massive number of symbols that needed to be memorized in order to adequately communicate -- often leads to the idiomatic shortening or compression of foreign words to make thier useage easier for typesetters, word processors, etc. That's why we have words like "loli-goth" (Gothic Lolita), Pokemon (Pocket Monsters), and Comiket (Comic Market).

[MonkeyFunk]

I'm pretty sure he's asking why English-speakers started calling Japanese cartoons "anime".

[Gokou Ruri]

If you want to know the origin of a foreign word, research the culture in which it originated, not domestic dictionaries (and not local otaku, either). "Anime" originated in Japan in the early twentieth Century, when Japan was still in an early stage of industrialization and their language had few words for modern technological concepts like animated cartoons. So they did what any culture does when their language comes up short: they borrowed words from other cultures, in this case, English, because most of the information that led to Japan's modernization was coming from English-speading nations. But "animation" was a difficult word to translate into Japanese, because of the confusion, non-phonetic pronunciation of "-tion". The shortened word, "anime" was, by contrast, very easy to pronounce and spell in Japanese, requiring only three symbols in the katakana (the Japanese alphabet most frequently used for spelling non-Japanese words), whereas "animation" required six symbols. I always heard it originated in France and Japan adapted it for their own language as well.


I'm pretty sure he's asking why English-speakers started calling Japanese cartoons "anime". Probably to feel "cooler" back in the 80s or whenever the term started popping up. Though all it's really done is build up an inaccurate stereotype that Japanese animation is different from the rest of the world's animation and leads to ignorant comments by the misinformed.

[Bakasama]

If you want to know the origin of a foreign word, research the culture in which it originated, not domestic dictionaries (and not local otaku, either). "Anime" originated in Japan in the early twentieth Century, when Japan was still in an early stage of industrialization and their language had few words for modern technological concepts like animated cartoons. So they did what any culture does when their language comes up short: they borrowed words from other cultures, in this case, English, because most of the information that led to Japan's modernization was coming from English-speading nations. But "animation" was a difficult word to translate into Japanese, because of the confusion, non-phonetic pronunciation of "-tion". The shortened word, "anime" was, by contrast, very easy to pronounce and spell in Japanese, requiring only three symbols in the katakana (the Japanese alphabet most frequently used for spelling non-Japanese words), whereas "animation" required six symbols.

Actually the Japanese DO have a native Japanese word for animation, it's called "manga" but some reason they prefer to use "anime" instead for the most part.

[MonkeyFunk]

I always heard it originated in France and Japan adapted it for their own language as well.I think that's just a fandom myth, really. This is the only mention of the etymology of the word I've found in a Japanese source is this interview with Miyazaki (http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/aboutanime.html):


I hate the abbreviation anime because I can't help but think that the word symbolizes the desolation (of Japanese animation).

[Dudley]

Actually the Japanese DO have a native Japanese word for animation, it's called "manga" but some reason they prefer to use "anime" instead for the most part.

That IS true. I remember in my scond year in Japanese class (while I was in Japan), my teacher and I had a discussion on the usage of the anime. In that manga is used to cover both Japanese comics and animated cartoons.
Of course, that was just in a textbook, because everyone just calls anime and manga as too seperate things.

As for the term itself. I'm not really sure. Theterm didn't enter my vocabulary until 2001/2002.
One thing's for sure, is like television is shortened to "telebi" in Japan, "anime" is simply short for animation.
I guess when anime started pouring in, enthusiasts adapted the term to mean "Japanese animation". Before then, I just called it "japanimation".

[Master Toon]

. Remember that in Japan, "anime" doesn't just identify their home-made cartoons, but refers to all animation. In Japan, Disney is anime, Hanna-Barbera is anime, Pixar is anime. (Wanna see a hardcore otaku pop an artery? Just walk up to one at an anime convention and repeat the previous two sentences.)

This is very much true but otaku don't want to hear that. If you say that at an all anime website you'll get flamed and then banned.

Now otaku are starting to say Seiyuu rather than voice actor, wonder what excuses can come from that.

[MonkeyFunk]

This is very much true but otaku don't want to hear that. If you say that at an all anime website you'll get flamed and then banned.

Not necessarily. There are anime forums where those delightful chaps squawking "ANIME AREN'T CARTOONS OMG OMG ANIME AREN'T CARTOONS OMG OMG" have been replaced by equally delightful chaps squawking "ANIME MEANS ANIMATION OMG OMG ANIME MEANS ANIMATION OMG OMG"

[FidoMcCokefiend]

Now otaku are starting to say Seiyuu rather than voice actor, wonder what excuses can come from that.

I do that, just because it's easier to say "Seiyuu" and "Voice Actor" than it is to say "Japanese Voice Actor" and "American Voice Actor".

[Kurokawa41]

It's like... part of "animation" in... Romaji, right? I guess it's like reverse-Romaji, but I don't know what to call that. Well, anyway, it's basically the "anima" part of "animation." But the closest pronunciation that the Japanese have is 'a' (pronounced "ah") 'ni' (pronounced like "knee") 'me' (pronounced like "May".) The Japanese are really rigid with their language and it doesnt really "flow"; it's made up of structured syllables.

[The Weed Of Cri]

Actually the Japanese DO have a native Japanese word for animation, it's called "manga" but some reason they prefer to use "anime" instead for the most part.

At least one authority I know, Fred Schodt, has traced the root of the word "manga" back over a hundred years, before the first animated cartoon was made. "Manga" roughly translates into "rude pictures" and was originally used to describe forms of illustration produced without precise methods, like woodcuts and inkboard carvings that were used to make inexpensive, easy-to-reproduce artwork for the popular literature at the time. The literature was pulpy stuff usually considered lowbrow and designed as cheap entertainment for the masses, and the illustrations themselves often bordered on pornographic (hence the "rude" part). An example of this kind of artwork was featured in an episode of Samurai Champloo, when Fuu posed for an ukiyo-e carving.

If "manga" was once the standard term for animation, it must have been in the earliest days of the animation artform, and may have been adopted as the closest verbal description, before the Japanese found out other languages had another, more precise word for it.

[Bakasama]

Well, my Japanese language teacher told me that.

You know should that definitions for Japanese words tend to be vague or general at times. For example, the Chinese characters for "manga" can mean "images for the masses", which could mean "images that were made by printing" or "mass images" which could mean "many images that tell a story", that works for describing comics and animation. There are times where there's no absolute definition, so one goes with the one that best fit an instance and use it.

About the use of foreign words over native Japanese words that are perfectly valid. I did some research some years ago for a speech. The best reason I can possibly find on that subject is that's the Japanese word could be considered too "asian", too "Chinese" or "old-fashioned", the foreign word is "exotic", "trendy". I know that sounds well, stupid, but it maybe the case. It's a similar case with "anime" with anime fans.

[Elven Moon]

I always figured it was because either; 1) Fans wanted some special term to seperate Japanese animation from their own country 2) They were simply using it to refer to a sort of "genre" of animation. Besides the fact that the Japanese use it to refer to ALL animation, I mean.

[Weatherman]

Why did Anime start being called anime? I mean, it just means "animation" in Japanese, so why is there a distinction between anime and cartoons?


Because they're different, more or less. The term "anime" over her e tends t oconvey something that a US company wouldn't produce for airing on US tv or theaters first. Yes, I know that there are some shows that fall under the term anime that aired in the US first, but those are the exception, not the rule.

As for widespread use, when Japanese animation started to make it's way into video stores they had to call it something. Calling it "animation" wouldn't work very wel las that term tends to conotate a family-friendly image that alot of the anime available over here both then and now does not have. It made it alot easier to keep little Timmy from grabbing a copy of Mazinkaiser or City Hunter and then having his parents freak when they see it.

[FriendlyMushroom]

Because they're different, more or less. The term "anime" over her e tends t oconvey something that a US company wouldn't produce for airing on US tv or theaters first. Yes, I know that there are some shows that fall under the term anime that aired in the US first, but those are the exception, not the rule.

As for widespread use, when Japanese animation started to make it's way into video stores they had to call it something. Calling it "animation" wouldn't work very wel las that term tends to conotate a family-friendly image that alot of the anime available over here both then and now does not have. It made it alot easier to keep little Timmy from grabbing a copy of Mazinkaiser or City Hunter and then having his parents freak when they see it.

Tell the family-friendly image idea to all of the American late-night cartoons.

So, what I'm getting is that anime was used in the US because it simply sounded more mature. So, just why do many western otakus blow up if you call anime cartoons (or say all cartoons are anime in Japan), instead of their self-invented term?

[rubberchicken]

Tell the family-friendly image idea to all of the American late-night cartoons.

So, what I'm getting is that anime was used in the US because it simply sounded more mature. So, just why do many western otakus blow up if you call anime cartoons (or say all cartoons are anime in Japan), instead of their self-invented term?
Because they're snobs.

[Lighthammer]

This to me is pretty much just similar to the same phenomena that took "laughing" and converted it to "lol" on the net then eventually to "lulz".

Slang simply evolves. The chaos theory suggests theres no way to really predict when, why or how it evolves, it just does.

As the typical definition goes; anime is simply how the Japanese labeled animation attempting to adapt the term animation to their culture and language.

The human need to qualify and classify it beyond that has attempted to debate what anime really is calling it something *generally* produce in Japan.

However, in saying that, I fear I opened up a debate I didn't intend to.

Carry on.

[Master Toon]

Anime is what Japanese people call animation.

By using the term anime, you aren't talking directly about Japanese animation but animation in general.

Therefor, I will no longer use anime but use "Japanese cartoons" or "Japanese animation"

[Classic Speedy]

I highly doubt -everyone- who uses the term "anime" in referring to Japanese animation is trying to set it apart in its own class and claim it is inherently superior to any other country's animation. Some may (foolishly), but certainly not all. For many, it's just easier to say and type, and generally people know what you're talking about when you say something is an "anime".

Like it or not, the word "anime" coming to mean "animation from Japan" here in America and some other English-speaking countries has become a cultural norm, even though using it in that context is something of a misnomer.

[Master Toon]

I highly doubt -everyone- who uses the term "anime" in referring to Japanese animation is trying to set it apart in its own class and claim it is inherently superior to any other country's animation. Some may (foolishly), but certainly not all.

True.


For many, it's just easier to say and type, and generally people know what you're talking about when you say something is an "anime".

People could just say cartoon, i see no harm in that.




Like it or not, the word "anime" coming to mean "animation from Japan" here in America and some other English-speaking countries has become a cultural norm, even though using it in that context is something of a misnomer.

Yeah well, if everyone started saying pigs can fly, i'm not all of a sudden going to say or believe it, that's what makes me an individual.

[Jave]

Yeah well, if everyone started saying pigs can fly, i'm not all of a sudden going to say or believe it, that's what makes me an individual.How is that comparison even valid? There's a big difference between a single word used to refer to a particular concept and something that just can't happen due to laws of physics.

[Shawn Hopkins]

I think the best reason for calling it anime in America is that Japanese animation or japanese cartoon takes too long to say and "Jap"animation sounds kinda racist. Americans like to shorten words too, ya'know?

The dumbest is when people call it Japanese anime to introduce it to unfamiliar audiences. I know that's technically correct but it's still pointless. Just say Japanese cartoons.

[Gokou Ruri]

I think the best reason for calling it anime in America is that Japanese animation or japanese cartoon takes too long to say and "Jap"animation sounds kinda racist. Americans like to shorten words too, ya'know? But they still call American cartoons "American cartoons" and French cartoons "French cartoons", etc.

They only made up a word for Japanese cartoons.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Look, its quite simple. Cultures all around the world take a foreign word and make it their own. In the case of "anime," as has been stated, it is just a shorted form of "animation." The Japanese like taking long English words and shorten them. Thus "lolita complex" becomes "lolicon." Personal computer become "persocon."

When certain Americans started becoming aware of Japanese animation many, many years ago, they discovered that the Japanese used the term "anime" for these cartoons. To distinguish Japanese cartoons from American cartoons (or it could be stated even Americanized ones like "Robotech"), these American fans decided to use the Japanese term for it -- anime. The term has stuck and in American (and indeed, many other countries as well), "anime" refers to Japanese animation. We've taken a term and given it new meaning because as stated, in Japan, "anime" is just any cartoon (like Tom and Jerry or Bugs Bunny).

Its like the term "hentai." In Japan, "hentai" means extremely perverted or strange. It isn't used to define the porn genre of anime or manga. The Japanese use the term "ero" for porn as far as I know. However, we in America use the term "hentai" to mean anime or manga porn. We take "ecchi", which is how the Japanese say "H" (which is short for "hentai" though not as strong as saying "hentai"), to define anime or manga with excessive fanservice, especially with nudity or the like. Again, we've taken terms and made them our own.

[Weatherman]

Because they're snobs.


Maybe a few do, but for the most part you're wrong. They're not called "cartoons" because they're not "cartoons" i nthe American vernacular. Ask any non-animation fanboy/girl about what "cartoon" means and they'll probably tell you Dora the Exploer or Sponge Bob or Rugrats or if you're really lucky Looney Tunes. In the American vernbacular "cartoon" generally means silly and/or stupid and usually for little kids.

"Anime" covers a far broader range of styles, as in "this isn't Sponge Bob. That girl just grew an extra arm out of her back and ripped off that guy's head". Or "this isn't Dora. It's a cheesetacular high school drama".

[Joe]

Maybe a few do, but for the most part you're wrong. They're not called "cartoons" because they're not "cartoons" i nthe American vernacular. Ask any non-animation fanboy/girl about what "cartoon" means and they'll probably tell you Dora the Exploer or Sponge Bob or Rugrats or if you're really lucky Looney Tunes. In the American vernbacular "cartoon" generally means silly and/or stupid and usually for little kids.

"Anime" covers a far broader range of styles, as in "this isn't Sponge Bob. That girl just grew an extra arm out of her back and ripped off that guy's head". Or "this isn't Dora. It's a cheesetacular high school drama".

Then maybe you should lobby against the Anime Forum being in the "Cartoons" section of TZ ;).

I agree with Speedy Boris. I just use the term in short for animation from Japan, or the drawing style inherent in those cartoons.

[Gokou Ruri]

Maybe a few do, but for the most part you're wrong. They're not called "cartoons" because they're not "cartoons" i nthe American vernacular. Ask any non-animation fanboy/girl about what "cartoon" means and they'll probably tell you Dora the Exploer or Sponge Bob or Rugrats or if you're really lucky Looney Tunes. In the American vernbacular "cartoon" generally means silly and/or stupid and usually for little kids. So, actually naming cartoons when asked what cartoons are is a bad answer?


"Anime" covers a far broader range of styles, as in "this isn't Sponge Bob. That girl just grew an extra arm out of her back and ripped off that guy's head". Or "this isn't Dora. It's a cheesetacular high school drama". Sorry, but they're cartoons. Unless that means you don't think shows like Azumanga Daioh, Haruhi Suzumiya, or Doraemon are "anime" because they're goofy and not serious. Even then, does that mean Batman is an anime? How about Aeon Flux, Mosaic, He-Man, Fritz the Cat, or Beowulf?

[Lighthammer]

One thing I do want to suggest throughout this 'debate' (as its appearently turning into), Words CAN evolve in meaning and coverage.

In this case, anime evolved.

HOWEVER, I almost feel like there should be infinitive classifications for styles of anime. I mean the Japanese did it, why can't we?

[Duo Himura]

Alright, let me first say that this entire debate is rather silly, and anyone taking this really seriously -may- need to find something more productive to do with their time. I probably fall into that category, except for the serious part.

In Japan, yes, Anime refers to animation in general. In America it has come to mean animation -from- Japan. We all pretty much know this.

What I ask you all to consider is that the evolution of words -often- doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Take the acronym, "SNAFU," which originally meant "Situation normal: all f***ed up." Nowadays, you can call any sort of bureaucratic mistake "-a- SNAFU" which, taken in the original context, is improper English. "Scuba" and "laser" are two other words that were originally acronyms that entered the vernacular, still referring to what they originally did, but used in such a way that it's possible for people to not know that they were once acronyms.

English also borrows words from other languages all the time. "Non sequitur" and "faux" both come to mind immediately, and in English, both of them carry a meaning not necessarily present in the original language (well, with faux it's more a matter of how it's used in English most frequently).

So there's no reason "Anime" should come under this much fire. It's just part of the vernacular, and that's not something any individual effort can change, or even necessarily any group effort unless a huge number of people -wanted- to abandon the term.

Personally, I think it's fine to distinguish between Japanese animation and the animation of other countries. Anime uses a style that's distinctly different from anything produced in other countries, unless those countries were directly imitating it (ala Avatar). Anime also tends to cover a broader range of genres and topics. That's not -always- the case, but it's the general rule, what with most American cartoons being more family friendly and comedic (though the former applies even less than the latter) and Anime having at least as much or more content that is more serious and also less family friendly.

That's not to put one over the other. Admittedly I'm a bigger fan of anime than most American cartoons: I think Gankutsuou is one of the most amazing -anything- I've seen, Anime, cartoons in general, adaptations of classic literature (maybe not necessarily surpassing The Lord of the Rings movies), etc, and I follow more anime series more religiously than I do American cartoons, which I tend to watch more as they're on than actively seek out. A lot of the time, Anime feature more complex storylines (or actually -have- storylines) than their American counterparts, and I'd definitely be quicker to grab an Anime than an American cartoon if I wanted something to make me think. American cartoons on the other hand tend to be more of a feel-good and generally fun affair, and that's cool, too (and often -exactly- what I'm in the mood for), but one may as well make the distinction. If someone watches both American cartoons and Anime and is in the mood to watch one in particular, the other probably isn't going to do much for them (with Avatar and such again probably being the exception).

This isn't foolproof logic by any stretch, I'm sure someone can (and will?) come along and poke holes in what I've just said, but my real point is this: calling Japanese animation Anime is what people are used to. It doesn't hurt anyone, and it actually helps to -eliminate- confusion. Therefore there's no real argument against it, whether it's true to the origins of the term or not, which, frankly, is never nearly as important as what the term comes to mean (the "n-word" is literally Latin for the color black, yet you still get people up in arms if you use it, because it has become derogatory.).

The vernacular is a strange thing, people. Get used to it. It's really just as silly now as it ever was (Bees knees? Phat? Equally ridiculous, really. And don't get me started on the various stages of "The Man."). You may as well go along for the ride without moaning about it. Though please don't everyone start adopting "ghetto-style" language...

[Gokou Ruri]

So there's no reason "Anime" should come under this much fire. It's just part of the vernacular, and that's not something any individual effort can change, or even necessarily any group effort unless a huge number of people -wanted- to abandon the term. The difference is the examples you listed are actual words used by everyone. "Anime" was made up by the fans and is just a term they use, or by people they told what it meant. At best, it's slang.


Personally, I think it's fine to distinguish between Japanese animation and the animation of other countries. Anime uses a style that's distinctly different from anything produced in other countries, unless those countries were directly imitating it (ala Avatar). Which Japanese show does Avatar look like, exactly? It doesn't look like One Piece or PaRappa the Rapper to me, so that alone discredits any claims that Japanese animation has a distinct "style", otherwise every Japanese animation would look exactly the same, which is not true at all.

Like I mentioned before, all the word does is add confusion to things and inaccurate generalizations.

[rubberchicken]

Maybe a few do, but for the most part you're wrong. They're not called "cartoons" because they're not "cartoons" i nthe American vernacular. Ask any non-animation fanboy/girl about what "cartoon" means and they'll probably tell you Dora the Exploer or Sponge Bob or Rugrats or if you're really lucky Looney Tunes. In the American vernbacular "cartoon" generally means silly and/or stupid and usually for little kids.

"Anime" covers a far broader range of styles, as in "this isn't Sponge Bob. That girl just grew an extra arm out of her back and ripped off that guy's head". Or "this isn't Dora. It's a cheesetacular high school drama".
Uh... no. Anime are still cartoons, regardless of what the popular misconceptions of cartoons may be. People who go ballistic when their favorite series is referred to as such are simply trying to put themselves on a pedestal that doesn't actually exist.

This is practically the same conversation we have whenever somebody screams "NO! I don't read comics! I read graphic novels!"

[Rob_TF]

The difference is the examples you listed are actual words used by everyone. "Anime" was made up by the fans and is just a term they use, or by people they told what it meant. At best, it's slang.

Remind me, how is it made up by the fans when they took it from the Japanese, whom infact shortened from a word they took from English? To me, that's not fans developing their own term, that's the loaning of what is essentially already a loan-word.

It's to the point where the Japanese actually acknowledge that we make such a difference between Japanese and Western animation that whenever they use English (which they do a lot, mostly nonsensically but sometimes quite correct), they also make the same difference and refer to their own animated shows as "anime" and American animation as "cartoons".


Which Japanese show does Avatar look like, exactly? It doesn't look like One Piece or PaRappa the Rapper to me, so that alone discredits any claims that Japanese animation has a distinct "style", otherwise every Japanese animation would look exactly the same, which is not true at all.

You're reading it wrong. There's a particular stylism that persists in all the differing art styles of Japanese animation, such as level of colour and shading and the proportion of body parts and facial features, that just is rarely found in Western animation. And there are quite a few facial expressions which are unique to this stylism that are only seen in Western animation that imitates the stylisms of Japanese animation, which includes the likes of Avatar.

[Gokou Ruri]

Remind me, how is it made up by the fans when they took it from the Japanese, whom infact shortened from a word they took from English? To me, that's not fans developing their own term, that's the loaning of what is essentially already a loan-word.

Well, not "made up" per-say, but made up in the sense that they took the word and added their own definition to it.


You're reading it wrong. There's a particular stylism that persists in all the differing art styles of Japanese animation, such as level of colour and shading and the proportion of body parts and facial features, that just is rarely found in Western animation. And there are quite a few facial expressions which are unique to this stylism that are only seen in Western animation that imitates the stylisms of Japanese animation, which includes the likes of Avatar. Can you actually name or point out these stylisms? Because again, that's basically saying any randomly-picked two shows, like Astro Boy and Shin-chan, look the same and share those characteristics if they're persistent in "all the different art styles". I doubt anyone would say Avatar has the same colors or body proportions of those two Japanese cartoons.

[Ghostbuster Man]

If you want to know the origin of a foreign word, research the culture in which it originated, not domestic dictionaries (and not local otaku, either). "Anime" originated in Japan in the early twentieth Century, when Japan was still in an early stage of industrialization and their language had few words for modern technological concepts like animated cartoons. So they did what any culture does when their language comes up short: they borrowed words from other cultures, in this case, English, because most of the information that led to Japan's modernization was coming from English-speading nations. But "animation" was a difficult word to translate into Japanese, because of the confusion, non-phonetic pronunciation of "-tion". The shortened word, "anime" was, by contrast, very easy to pronounce and spell in Japanese, requiring only three symbols in the katakana (the Japanese alphabet most frequently used for spelling non-Japanese words), whereas "animation" required six symbols.

Remember that in Japan, "anime" doesn't just identify their home-made cartoons, but refers to all animation. In Japan, Disney is anime, Hanna-Barbera is anime, Pixar is anime. (Wanna see a hardcore otaku pop an artery? Just walk up to one at an anime convention and repeat the previous two sentences.)

The pictographic nature of the Japanese language -- and the massive number of symbols that needed to be memorized in order to adequately communicate -- often leads to the idiomatic shortening or compression of foreign words to make thier useage easier for typesetters, word processors, etc. That's why we have words like "loli-goth" (Gothic Lolita), Pokemon (Pocket Monsters), and Comiket (Comic Market).

Thanks for the info, mack! This is very good research!

[Weatherman]

Uh... no. Anime are still cartoons, regardless of what the popular misconceptions of cartoons may be. People who go ballistic when their favorite series is referred to as such are simply trying to put themselves on a pedestal that doesn't actually exist.

This is practically the same conversation we have whenever somebody screams "NO! I don't read comics! I read graphic novels!"


Notice that I said "American vernacular". Cartoon in America means for kids or Looney Tunes or maybe some of the more serious Disney stuff....and Shrek. That's what "cartoon" means to your average American Joe/Jane. The vast majority of the anime we see over here doesn't fit definition at all. "Anime" is different, and to pretend it's not is really just being silly. Yes, some fans act like blowhards using that term, but then they grow up and figure out what it really means.

"Anime" and "cartoons" are different. Both countries have different audiences for their product and a completely different set of cultural baggage that goes with them.

[The Huntsman]

Notice that I said "American vernacular". Cartoon in America means for kids or Looney Tunes or maybe some of the more serious Disney stuff....and Shrek. That's what "cartoon" means to your average American Joe/Jane. The vast majority of the anime we see over here doesn't fit definition at all. "Anime" is different, and to pretend it's not is really just being silly. Yes, some fans act like blowhards using that term, but then they grow up and figure out what it really means.

"Anime" and "cartoons" are different. Both countries have different audiences for their product and a completely different set of cultural baggage that goes with them.
I’ll be the first to admit that I’m an inept idiot when it comes to anime, but I don’t believe your point really proves anything. Generalization is seldom a good thing; just because a large number of people assume something doesn’t mean that they’re correct. You’re talking about the same people who think video games are for children because they’re “games”. Cartoons exist in many different forms; it doesn’t matter how detailed they are, or what audience they’re intended for. I’m not saying that you can’t refer to Japanese animation as “anime”, but there’s no need to say that it they’re not cartoons.

I'm just tired of all of this. I’m a fan of animation, and in my opinion, people can use the word “anime” as they wish. If they want to reserve the word for Japanese animation, then that’s their prerogative. However, I don’t see why people have to get angry if I refer to an American show as an “anime”, or if I refer to a Japanese show as a “cartoon”. Can’t we all just use the terms as we see fit? Are we not capable of respecting one another?

[MonkeyFunk]

Ask any non-animation fanboy/girl about what "cartoon" means and they'll probably tell you Dora the Exploer or Sponge Bob or Rugrats or if you're really lucky Looney Tunes.

Probably. But on the other hand, if you were to make the same people sit down and watch Spirited Away (or whatever), would they really say "Well, I guess that's not a cartoon"?

(For the record, here in the UK anime used to be widely known as "manga cartoons")

[rubberchicken]

In my experience, the people who insist most strongly that cartoons must be kiddie fare are the anime geeks who want to feel more respectable than the unwashed American masses.

Most other people I've encountered (although not all) don't have a problem with acknowledging that "Japanese cartoons" tend to be aimed at a wider variety of audiences, while encompassing a wider variety of content, than American ones.

Really, it's more the nerd vernacular that says cartoons are Disney stuff.

[Duo Himura]

The difference is the examples you listed are actual words used by everyone. "Anime" was made up by the fans and is just a term they use, or by people they told what it meant. At best, it's slang.

So? That was my -point-, it doesn't matter how a word came into the language so much as what it has come to -mean-. If it's used only by anime fans, who cares? The terms "Ko" and "joseki" and "fuseki" are only used in English by Go players, but they're convenient for those people, and nothing anyone says is likely to change that. Likewise, to anime fans and even non-anime fans (actually, the phrase is used by most companies as well), anime has come to refer to animation from Japan, and it's useless to argue that point, whatever your personal feelings are about it. People have had the same debate about the "n-word," for years it was considered completely unacceptable, now people wonder whether it's okay for certain people to use, or if it ought to remain banned altogether, or if it should be okay for anyone to use as long as the intent behind it is not to insult, and in the end all these debates have gone nowhere, because it's hard to remove the negative connotations from the world, but equally hard to discourage those who are used to using it with no negative connotations.


Which Japanese show does Avatar look like, exactly? It doesn't look like One Piece or PaRappa the Rapper to me, so that alone discredits any claims that Japanese animation has a distinct "style", otherwise every Japanese animation would look exactly the same, which is not true at all.

Well, for one, the team supposedly deliberately drew their inspiration from anime, what with Appa being based on "My Neighbor Totoro"'s Catbus.

But you're misinterpreting what is meant by "style." In any kind of art, two pieces that are considered to have a similar style don't necessarily look exactly the same, or even necessarily depict the same things in the same ways, they just share certain characteristics (or at least, that's how I would take it, since artists are often considered influenced by each other or possessing similar styles, but not ripping each other off). These include:

Particular uses of shading/colors in particular ways. I'm not really sure how to get into specifics since I'm not an artist or someone who knows a lot about this stuff, but anime does draw upon different techniques in this regard than American animation.

Outlines in American cartoons are almost always thicker than in anime, see Kappa Mikey.

Anime characters tend to have somewhat disproportionally large heads and often have large eyes.

To compare anime to American comics and animation based on them, although many anime feature characters with superhuman abilities, they are rarely depicted as 'superheroes' in the same sense as they are in American comics/animation.

There are others, and you could probably give me a counterexample for every one of them, and you wouldn't be wrong. You're right that distinguishing between Anime and American cartoons is largelly based on generalizations, but generalizations happen ALL the time when it comes to media. Although some of them are different, when a person refers to a romance novel or a romantic comedy, certain basic plot elements come to mind, don't they? Even if not all romantic comedies feature the same elements, if the vast majority of them do, and you're a person who doesn't particularly care for those elements, isn't it helpful to know that you're probably wasting your time watching -most- romantic comedies? Now, that's a genre thing, but isn't it just as helpful for people who dislike most anime to differentiate them from American cartoons and steer clear?

But, like I said, it's pointless to argue this. Unless you're going to go talk to Best Buy and Funimation and Anime Insider and Anime News Network and Animerica and all the others and get them to change the terminology that everyone is familiar with, nothing is going to happen if you complain about the use of the term anime. Personally, I find it immensely helpful to not have to search through racks of Dora the Explorer when I'm looking for Macross or Gankutsuou.

Uh, actually I'm pretty sure that "cartoons are for kids" is a fairly widely held belief. It may be -brought up- on the internet most frequently by anime fans, but that's because the people who would actually hold that viewpoint are probably less likely to be involved in this kind of discussion. I expect the average American who doesn't necessarily know what anime is (ie most of the adults who live around here...) probably associate cartoons with Spongebob or Superman. Then again, where I live 'anime' means Dragonball Z or Pokemon to a lot of kids as well, so even though I really don't care for Naruto or its obsessive fanboys/girls, I'm sort of glad that the most prominent anime is coming to be a somewhat better example of the category.

And anyway, there's really nothing inherently wrong with a person liking 'regular cartoons' or anime better and elevating its status in their own mind. Yeah, it's probably a bit ignorant, but by the same token, American animation and Japanese animation -do- tend to offer different things, and it's possible to like one and not the other. It's easy to forget on the internet, but people -are- entitled to their opinions, much though we may sometimes wish it were otherwise, and even if those opinions happen to be snobbish or close-minded.

The_Huntsman: Well, no one is going to -restrict- your right to to call anime or cartoons whatever you want, to do it backwards from the norm or whatever. It's entirely likely, however, that you'll confuse people, and probably that some people will get upset with you, but this kind of discussion isn't going to make those people any less common. At any rate, I'd hope most people wouldn't get up in arms if you called an American cartoon 'anime', though most would probably feel the need to correct you, but that's beside the point.

Not to backseat mod or anything, but I'm not sure that I see this conversation going anywhere. Even if anyone in this thread could be made to agree with anyone else (already looking unlikely), it's still kind of pointless to debate whether or not it's good to use a word in a particular sense when that word is already part of the vernacular. The debate over whether anime are better/different than/from American cartoons has undoubtedly come up many times, but I'm pretty sure that's never been resolved either, and that's sort of where this is going (and on a forum that deals with both, that seems like a bad idea). And I think we -did- answer the question that the thread was created for, even if it -has- been evolving into something else since.

[Gokou Ruri]

Notice that I said "American vernacular". Cartoon in America means for kids or Looney Tunes or maybe some of the more serious Disney stuff....and Shrek. That's what "cartoon" means to your average American Joe/Jane.

And people say "could care less" when the phrase is "couldn't care less", but that doesn't mean it's correct. You're mixing up actual facts with people's opinions on a subject.


So? That was my -point-, it doesn't matter how a word came into the language so much as what it has come to -mean-. If it's used only by anime fans, who cares? The terms "Ko" and "joseki" and "fuseki" are only used in English by Go players, but they're convenient for those people, and nothing anyone says is likely to change that. I don't play go, but correct me if I'm wrong, but don't those words have the same meaning as they do in the original language? It's like saying "Checkmate" in chess. It's a term that's being used for it's correct meaning. They're not taking the foreign word and skewing it's definition to fit their own needs.


Well, for one, the team supposedly deliberately drew their inspiration from anime, what with Appa being based on "My Neighbor Totoro"'s Catbus. That's more along the lines of taking a concept than an art-style. It'd be like saying Akira Toriyama has an "American-style' because Goku was based off Superman, or something


Particular uses of shading/colors in particular ways. I'm not really sure how to get into specifics since I'm not an artist or someone who knows a lot about this stuff, but anime does draw upon different techniques in this regard than American animation. There's a lot of Japanese cartoons with no shading at all, and plenty of American cartoons with shading.


Outlines in American cartoons are almost always thicker than in anime, see Kappa Mikey. Again, see above.


Anime characters tend to have somewhat disproportionally large heads and often have large eyes. You know, I have to wonder why so many people use "big eyes" as an example of "anime style". Osamu Tezuka took the whole big-eye concept from Walt Disney. Going by that logic, any Japanese show that uses big eyes is just using an "American style", but I wouldn't say that because there's no such thing as "American-style". As for big heads, there's tons of that. Bosko and Honey, Jimmy Neutron, Fairly Odd Parents, Powerpuff Girls, and so on.

Really, there's no such thing as "anime style", "American style" or anything. Individual people have their own style, not entire countries.


But, like I said, it's pointless to argue this. Unless you're going to go talk to Best Buy and Funimation and Anime Insider and Anime News Network and Animerica and all the others and get them to change the terminology that everyone is familiar with, nothing is going to happen if you complain about the use of the term anime. Personally, I find it immensely helpful to not have to search through racks of Dora the Explorer when I'm looking for Macross or Gankutsuou. Who's complaining? I'm just stating how I feel on it. I'm not shackling or executing anyone who uses the word.

[Duo Himura]

Well, you come across rather strongly, is all. I guess I probably read too much into it.

Eh... you've pretty much got me on the Go terms, actually, guess that could have used a better example. Even so, there are still tons of words that get borrowed between languages and change meaning... Anime actually suffers about the same fate as the word 'mecha' which is a Japanese version of 'mechanical' and in Japan refers to anything mechanical, but in America refers in particular to giant robots. I suppose you could contest that one as well, but my point is it's really not that uncommon for words to lose or change their meaning, especially crossing into other languages and especially when we're talking about picking up/losing particular connotations, like becoming more specific. The Japanese borrowed our word for animation, then we borrowed it back as America became more aware of Japanese animation, but since we already had a word for animation in general, and it was the term the Japanese used, it came to refer specifically to Japanese animation. Or something like that, probably, that's just what I'd assume.

While individual people do have their own styles, there are also styles reflected by many artists in particular countries based on their histories and their current current situations, ie the Romantic Period in music (which was more a region than a country, I believe), the various musical and artistic styles that became popular in America in the 20s, etc. At one point in the history of a particular culture certain styles become predominant, even if different artists use them differently. This is probably less the case now with the world more connected than it was by far, but I at least think it's still fairly prominent. If you pick up Naruto or BLEACH, or, really, just about any manga except perhaps Dragonball and Jo-Jo's Bizarre Adventure (the earlier stuff), you'll find few artistic similarities between them and American comic books, by and large (including the general lack of color in manga versus full color in American comics).

And I guess you also have me on some of the specific examples, but like I said, I'm not an artist, or at least, not a visual artist. I take note of how anime/manga almost always look decidedly different from things made in America, but I can't necessarily describe it effectively. Eyes -do- tend to be a more complex affair in most anime with shines and whatnot (or at least, they tend to be handled differently), but you're right, it's not -necessarily- the size that separates them (though relative to most everything I've seen from DC/Marvel/etc. they're pretty large, just not relative to, say, Spongebob).

I see your point about being a source of inspiration rather than a style thing, but I was more going for an example of how the creators were conscious of Anime and deliberately imitating it.

So I guess what I'm really saying here is that we need an art expert...

[rubberchicken]

Uh, actually I'm pretty sure that "cartoons are for kids" is a fairly widely held belief. It may be -brought up- on the internet most frequently by anime fans, but that's because the people who would actually hold that viewpoint are probably less likely to be involved in this kind of discussion. I expect the average American who doesn't necessarily know what anime is (ie most of the adults who live around here...) probably associate cartoons with Spongebob or Superman.

It may be the thing that commonly pops into people's heads right off the bat, but that hardly makes it a firm belief. It's not even an issue of their recognizing that Japanese action cartoons are different from American kiddie comedy ones; there are plenty of Western examples of cartoons that don't fit into the children's demographic. Off the top of my head, I've got The Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Venture Bros., Aeon Flux, and Spawn. Confronted with examples like this, people don't typically insist "No, those aren't cartoons," but instead say "Yeah, I guess cartoons aren't specifically for kids."

[Master Toon]

Really, there's no such thing as "anime style", "American style" or anything. Individual people have their own style, not entire countries.

Tell that to anime fans and American cartoonist who use that style.

[R-Taco]

Tell that to anime fans and American cartoonist who use that style.

Doesn't the fact that you're including a good chunk of American cartoonists into the "anime style" category say something about countries not having nation-wide styles?

[Weatherman]

And people say "could care less" when the phrase is "couldn't care less", but that doesn't mean it's correct. You're mixing up actual facts with people's opinions on a subject.

You seem to have something against the American vernacular. "Anime" is part of the spoken language in America. It means "animated fare from Japan". It's never ment "animation" over here and it never will. You can rage against it all you like but that's not goign to change the faact that it is a commonly accepted part of the American spoken word language. "Same difference" isn't even close to being gramarically correct, but it's just as much a part of the spoken language as the word anime.

[Lighthammer]

lets try something different; lets try working from a standard definition.



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anime

Definition 1:
n. a Japanese style of motion-picture animation, characterized by highly stylized, colorful art, futuristic settings, violence, and sexuality.

Definition 2:
n. A style of animation developed in Japan, characterized by stylized colorful art and often adult themes.


See Also Japanimation (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Japanimation)


What might add some merit to this debate is if anyone can find something out of japan that suggests the whole spectrum of audiances watching Anime.

[Gokou Ruri]

The Japanese borrowed our word for animation, then we borrowed it back as America became more aware of Japanese animation, but since we already had a word for animation in general, and it was the term the Japanese used, it came to refer specifically to Japanese animation. Or something like that, probably, that's just what I'd assume. Alright, ignoring if it is or it isn't for a minute, even if it is an actual word with valid meaning, I'm still against using it, myself. It's basically lumping an entire nation's cartoons together and saying they're all the same. People complain when cartoons get labeled as "just for kids" so the fact they'd do the same by labeling an entire country's animation as one thing seems a bit hypocritical to me, especially if they don't even make up a word for American, French, and every other country's animation.


While individual people do have their own styles, there are also styles reflected by many artists in particular countries based on their histories and their current current situations, ie the Romantic Period in music (which was more a region than a country, I believe), the various musical and artistic styles that became popular in America in the 20s, etc. At one point in the history of a particular culture certain styles become predominant, even if different artists use them differently. This is probably less the case now with the world more connected than it was by far, but I at least think it's still fairly prominent. That's getting really deep into what it means to be "influenced" and "style changes over the ages", which we probably don't want to get into because it'll just cause a headache :sweat: I'd imagine we won't see any major points like this until animation has been around for thousands of years like art or music have been. Animation isn't even 100 years old yet, and we keep discovering new techniques all the time (digital coloring, CG, and the like)


I see your point about being a source of inspiration rather than a style thing, but I was more going for an example of how the creators were conscious of Anime and deliberately imitating it. Alright, but they're really only imitating what they believe "anime style" is, regardless of it's correct or accurate or not, so in the end it's really their own style. The closest they could do it rip-off one specific person's style, like Dragonball Z, and say it's "anime style" because DBZ is Japanese cartoon, so technically that is an "anime's" style. But in that case, it'd be more accurate to say Toriyama-influenced since you're ripping off one guy and not an entire country.


Tell that to anime fans and American cartoonist who use that style. So if I made my own cartoon that looked exactly like Spongebob and called it "anime-style" it would be true? Just because the creator calls their show something doesn't make it true, they can be just as ignorant as the average person.


lets try something different; lets try working from a standard definition.

(Definitions)

Sounds like they basically watched Akira and since that was being called "anime" by the fans, they assumed everything Japan makes was like Akira :sweat:

[HG Revolution]

lets try something different; lets try working from a standard definition.



What might add some merit to this debate is if anyone can find something out of japan that suggests the whole spectrum of audiances watching Anime.

So by those dictionary definitions, I guess Grave of the Fireflies is the opposite of "anime"?


As for a whole spectrum of audiences watching anime in Japan, I know when Princess Mononoke was released, 10% of the country's whole population went to see it. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar statistic could be brought up about Shrek in America. Still, Japan produces more animation than America and a decent deal of it seems to do OK if not fantastically and there's more artistic freedom to experiment with animation there, so there's more chances for mainstream family-oriented anime in Japan whereas in America we have The Simpsons and some movies and other than that our animation output tends to be either for kids, stoners, fratboys, or occasionally geeks.

[rubberchicken]

other than that our animation output tends to be either for kids, stoners, fratboys, or occasionally geeks.

*points to otaku stereotype in Japan*

[HG Revolution]

*points to otaku stereotype in Japan*

Otakus are looked down apon like "hardcore" gamers are in America. Still, we have our Guitar Heroes and Wii Sports and people play games. Same thing with animation in Japan pretty much.

[Master Toon]

Doesn't the fact that you're including a good chunk of American cartoonists into the "anime style" category say something about countries not having nation-wide styles?

No. Those cartoonist just don't have any talent therefor they copy someone else.


You seem to have something against the American vernacular. "Anime" is part of the spoken language in America. It means "animated fare from Japan". It's never ment "animation" over here and it never will. You can rage against it all you like but that's not goign to change the faact that it is a commonly accepted part of the American spoken word language. "Same difference" isn't even close to being gramarically correct, but it's just as much a part of the spoken language as the word anime.

Wrong! If you give somebody invented something called tartication and another country made their own style of tartication but called it tarti, why isn't theirs considered tartication?

[MonkeyFunk]

Wrong! If you give somebody invented something called tartication and another country made their own style of tartication but called it tarti, why isn't theirs considered tartication?

*tips over onto the floor, curls up into a fetal position and twitches, gibbering quietly to himself*

[Master Toon]

*tips over onto the floor, curls up into a fetal position and twitches, gibbering quietly to himself*

Wait, don't say it, let me. Sorry for the obvious typos in that message. Let me give a better example.

Japanese people call animation, anime. So how is it that it's just for Japanese animation over here?

[Duo Himura]

Okay, I've been -trying- to keep out of this debate for a day or so because it's ridiculous and frustrating, and frankly I don't see the point, but I cannot keep silent on a couple of counts here.


No. Those cartoonist just don't have any talent therefor they copy someone else.

That is bull. We're talking about the existence of a style here (which at least one artist I know will tell you -does- exist and -does- have certain elements to it). Almost without exception, art is influenced by other art. It's not ripping something off to use a similar style to someone, it's ripping someone off to steal their ideas in particular. It's not a lack of talent to have a style similar to someone else's, either. I'd like to think that a modern-day composer whose style is largely similar to that of Beethoven and who can actually write music worthy of that influence would be regarded as talented. What about Dvorak, who used folk songs and tales as his inspiration for a lot of his music? Somebody had to invent those originally, was he 'ripping them off?'


Just because the creator calls their show something doesn't make it true, they can be just as ignorant as the average person.

Uh, I think professional -artists- know more about art styles than the average person. Likewise professional animators. Maybe they don't know more than everyone who aspires to hold that same position, but when the person who created a piece of art wants to categorize it a particular way, typically one goes along with them. Now, if you're just talking about fan artists and whatnot, that's one thing, but if you mean in general... a real pro would -not- be as ignorant as 'the average person,' when it comes to their actual profession. Maybe some -enthusiasts- might know more than them, but the average person? Highly unlikely. Unless they're -obviously- wrong I'd think one should trust the creator to know the most about their own work, here.

So, anyway, unless something I find strongly objectionable comes up, this may well be my last post here. I'm getting really tired of getting into pointless, circular arguments everywhere I go online, so for now, good day. This isn't an admission of defeat, just an admission that this has become too annoying to me to continue to deal with, and a restatement of what I said back when I first got involved: This whole debate is silly.

[FriendlyMushroom]

I heard this over at the Tv.com boards and I think this summarizes what anime and its relationship to cartoons: All anime are cartoons/animation, but not all cartoons/animation are anime. Anime specifically means Japanese cartoons.

As for those who argue that the difference is in maturity, running stories, and quality is what necessitated a different name: No, not true. Western cartoons can be serious with story arcs, and Japanese cartoons can be just as pointlessly funny as Western cartoons. Examples of quality action/adventure shows in the West are Avatar, Gargoyles, and the DCAU. No parent in their right mind would let their little kids watch the cartoons on Fox and Adult Swim, they are certainly not "kiddy". And Bobobo is one of the most mindless comedy cartoons I have seen, right up there with Spongebob and co.

As for drawing style, answer this: Can you deny that there is just something fundamentally different about how most anime are drawn from the way traditional cartoons are drawn? I can't.

[Gokou Ruri]

As for drawing style, answer this: Can you deny that there is just something fundamentally different about how most anime are drawn from the way traditional cartoons are drawn? I can't.

If someone can actually list all the elements Avatar and PaRappa the Rapper share, that can't be found in other shows, then I'll gladly accept that.

[Weatherman]

Wait, don't say it, let me. Sorry for the obvious typos in that message. Let me give a better example.

Japanese people call animation, anime. So how is it that it's just for Japanese animation over here?

Because it's easier to sell it that way and distinguish it from American animated products on the store self. I know I said that earlier in the thread. Japanese animation just plain is different from what is produced in America. It's a product of a different set of cultural values, idiosynchricies, assumtions, condundrums etc. etc. etc. It's not the same as American animation even if the very basic level of the craft is different.

Heck, Chinese food and Italian food both use many of the same base ingredients, meat, noodles and vegtables, but I doubt anyone would call them the same thing just because they're both food.

[Rob_TF]

If someone can actually list all the elements Avatar and PaRappa the Rapper share, that can't be found in other shows, then I'll gladly accept that.

That's pretty stupid to ask for, PaRappa the Rapper is the opposite of what Avatar is, it's a Japanese product which employs a Western-influenced artstyle. The characters in PaRappa were even designed by an American.

[Master Toon]

Heck, Chinese food and Italian food both use many of the same base ingredients, meat, noodles and vegtables, but I doubt anyone would call them the same thing just because they're both food.

So Japanese food isn't food, it's some superior food and we should call it tabemono?


That's pretty stupid to ask for, PaRappa the Rapper is the opposite of what Avatar is, it's a Japanese product which employs a Western-influenced artstyle. The characters in PaRappa were even designed by an American.

Yeah not everything on a Playstation console is from Japan.

[Gokou Ruri]

That's pretty stupid to ask for, PaRappa the Rapper is the opposite of what Avatar is, it's a Japanese product which employs a Western-influenced artstyle. The characters in PaRappa were even designed by an American. Hm, didn't know that. I knew the music was done by Westerners but not the art too. What exactly makes it a Japanese game again? :sweat:

Anyway. Change it to "Lucky Star" or "Gegege no Kitaro" or something. I just want to know what elements all these things shares that make them "Japanese-style", since they all look completely different. (This isn't even getting into CG work like Advent Children or Mr. Stain)

[Weatherman]

So Japanese food isn't food, it's some superior food and we should call it tabemono?


No, you call is Japanese food. "Anime" is just an easier way to say "Japanese animation" in the USA/Canada. What's so difficult about that?

[Master Toon]

No, you call is Japanese food. "Anime" is just an easier way to say "Japanese animation" in the USA/Canada. What's so difficult about that?

You could just call it a cartoon, which is easier.

Car + toon

A + Na + May

See, what's so difficult about that?

[Rob_TF]

You could just call it a cartoon, which is easier.

Car + toon

A + Na + May

See, what's so difficult about that?

The word "cartoon" implies there's humour to it, when an animated show doesn't actually have any humour in it I prefer to call it an "animation", not a cartoon. Shortening Japanese animation to "anime", as the Japanese do with just "animation", makes it a lot easier. I guess it kind of stuck even with the ones that are humourous.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

No, you call is Japanese food. "Anime" is just an easier way to say "Japanese animation" in the USA/Canada. What's so difficult about that?

On HellCat's behalf, don't forget the U.K.!


You could just call it a cartoon, which is easier.

Car + toon

A + Na + May

See, what's so difficult about that?

You pronounce it:

Ah-knee-meh.

[Master Toon]

The word "cartoon" implies there's humour to it

That's a lie. That's only an opinion. That's like saying all blondes are dumb or anyone who listens to rap is a gangster.



You pronounce it:

Ah-knee-meh.

Yeah well when people pronounce on tv and on online videos, it doesn't come out that way. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying people don't imphasize on the -knee- part.

[Jave]

You could just call it a cartoon, which is easier.

Car + toon

A + Na + May

See, what's so difficult about that?The problem is that in order to make it a synonym of what the word "Anime" implies, you'll have to say "Japanese Cartoon", not just "Cartoon".

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Yeah well when people pronounce on tv and on online videos, it doesn't come out that way. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying people don't imphasize on the -knee- part.

Well, you can't always teach people how to pronounce a foreign word.