Who are the top 10 fighters in the DC universe?

[Batman 80]

Over on the DC messageboards, I keep hearing that Lady Shiva is number 1. Who is she and who would you rate as the top 10 fighters?

[whitmore_sean]

Originally posted by Batman 80
Over on the DC messageboards, I keep hearing that Lady Shiva is number 1. Who is she and who would you rate as the top 10 fighters?


Shiva is a travelling mercenary who kills for money and/or pleasure. It's generally considered amongst the DC denizens that she is the deadliest and best martial artist in the world. One might argue Batman is, but the two have never fought one-on-one for any extended period of time. After Batman's back was broken (in "Knightfall"), Shiva was the person he went to to get his fighter's edge back (in "Knightsend").

SPOILERS FOR BATGIRL #25






Just recently, the new Batgirl managed to defeat/tie Shiva in a fight. The circumstances are iffy, though. Here is my personal list of the top 10 DC fighters:




1. Batman (I think he'd win, personally)
2. Shiva
3. Batgirl (could be #2 someday)
4. Connor Hawke (Green Arrow II...could be #1 someday)
5. Bronze Tiger (I think he beat Batman once)
6. Nightwing
7. Black Canary
8. Azrael (Batman admitted that if Az ever got his act together, he'd be even tougher than Bats)
9. King Snake (is he dead now?)
10. Robin

I could be wrong. I'm probably wrong. Anyone I'm forgetting?



SEAN
"I can't WAIT to eat that monkey!"

[JL Man]

1. Batgirl
2. Shiva
3. Batman
4. Nightwing
5. Babs pre-Oracle
6. Bane
7. Huntress
8. Tim Drake
9. Green Arrow
10. ?Azrael?
Just my humble opinion. I think it's pretty generally agreed the Shiva could beat Batman.

[NewMaxFranklin]

1 Shiva
2 Batgirl
3 Silver Monkey
4 Batman
5 Daredevil
6 Wolverine
7 Bullseye
8 Electra
9 Azrael
10 Nightwing

[Batman 80]

Anyone have a pic of Lady Shiva?

[FLIPMODE]

I thought Silver Monkey was Lady Shiva in disquise.

I know I must have written this several times, but an Batman editor admitted that out od 10 matches between the 2, Batman would win 4 and Shiva would win 6. Very close, but Shiva is just naturally deadlier. If Batman has basicaly trained to himself to holdback, so he does'nt kill. Maybe if he'd let go one day, and go deadly, He'd be unstoppable by Shiva. But that's what Shiva want's from him, and he'll never give in. Besides killing her, he's devise some other plan to stop her, which she thinks is cheating.

Heres the way I see the top 10, as DC shows us:
1-Shiva
2-Batman
3-Batgirl
4-Nightwing
5-Bane
6-Azreal
7-Bronze Monkey
8-Connor Hawke(but this may not be true anymore, as I think the
writers went in the wrong direction with his character, and does he even exist anymore?)
9-Cane
10-King Snake Only Because I can't think of anything else, and I'll also Tie him with Robin, because I've NEVER seen Robin Lose to King Snake, yet the guy is so feared.


Numbers 4 through 9, I'll pretty much put as a six way tie. Because they're all so close. So there really is no top 10, just a top 5, with number 4 varying on whoever one that day.

[Barb Gordon]

Nightwing could never be 10, he's too good of a fighter. It's been said that Dick is a better martial artist then Bruce and could have a good chance of beating him. Dick is a lot faster and athletic than Bruce due to his circus training. Here's my list (just the Batman peeps though):

1. Batgirl (if she isn't the best now, she will be as she gets older)
2. Shiva
3. Batman
4. Nightwing
5. Batgirl (Barb Gordon)
6. Bane
7. Black Canary
8.Huntress
9. Azrael
10.Tim Drake

Numbers 6-10 are kinda iffy though.

Barb^-^

[Knight]

1. Lady Shiva (shes still conciedered the top dog)
2. Batgirl (she's proven she can give Lady Shiva a very hard time)
3. Conner Hawke (has almost beaten Shiva and was once called
the second only to Shiva by Batman himself but that was
awhile back)
4. Batman (has fought Shiva and Batgirl his only problem maybe
is that the two of them are two fast for him. Batgirl is hard to
hit)
5. Bronze Tiger (use to fight alongside Shiva and Richard Dragon
has also fought Batman to a standstill)
6. Azrael
7. The Question
8. Nightwing
9. Black Canary
10. ?

[The Guard]

Ok...

Shiva
Batgirl
King Snake
David Cain
Richard Dragon
Conner Hawke
Batman
Azrael

I would imagine there are a number of Bruce's former teachers left alive. They get spots 9 and 10.

[nightwing_38116]

Bruce has admitted that he couldn't beat Shiva without cheating. I'll dig the comic from somewhere.

1. Lady Shiva
2. Batgirl
3. Batman
4. Connor Hawke
5. Nightwing
6. Azreal
7.Bronze Tiger
8. Bane
9. Robin (Remember, Tim has been trained by Bruce, Shiva, probably sparred with Nightwing, and he has travelled for more training as well. Not to mention besting King Snake.)
10. King Snake


If Jason Todd had lived he'd be in the top ten. He was a lot meaner than Dick or Tim, especially, after "allegedly" throwing Felipe Garzonas off of his balcony and killing him.

Story:
Robin (J. Todd) was on patrol and came across a woman who had been assulted. Turns out that Felipe Garzonas (a cocaine snorting, wealthy, party boy) was the culprit but nothing could be done since he was the son of a diplomat. Robin/Jason is incensed about the lack of justice. Robin goes to "see" Felipe and he "mysteriously" falls to his death. When Batman shows up and confronts Jason he says that he slipped. The expression of Batman as Robin swings away on the last page said it all. The next issue revolves around Felipe's father coming for revenge and wanting Bats to "bring the boy". Bruce sends Jason to school, however, Jason follows and the melee breaks out. At the end of the issue Bats tells Robin, "For every action there's a reaction". The very next issue begins "A Death in the Family".

[FLIPMODE]

To theGuard:

Just wondering, (it's your list, and respect your opinion) but is'nt King Snake a tad high on that list? Just curious what makes him number 3 to you?

anyone know for SURE, if Connor Hawke is still Alive?? I mean Oliver is back now.

And Barb Gordon, are you Putting barba gordons Batgirl at #5, before she was crippled or after?

[FLIPMODE]

Actually I just read something where it said, Batman DID defeat Shiva, and apparently afterward had his way with her. He drugged her with truth serum, to get the truth out of her. This was when Jason Todd was Robin.

SO, It is possible for Batman to beat Shiva, it just depends on which way the wind is blowing.

Im 100% percent sure, Batman can beat Batgirl, just based off of everything he knows compared to her. Yes she has her own language of fighting, which is an advantage, BUT it's also a dissadvantage. She only trained under one teacher, thus only knows what HE, knows, and Bruce has learned more than Cain.

Albeit, they're still deadly at what they do.

[nightwing_38116]

Originally posted by FLIPMODE
Actually I just read something where it said, Batman DID defeat Shiva, and apparently afterward had his way with her. He drugged her with truth serum, to get the truth out of her. This was when Jason Todd was Robin.

SO, It is possible for Batman to beat Shiva, it just depends on which way the wind is blowing.

Im 100% percent sure, Batman can beat Batgirl, just based off of everything he knows compared to her. Yes she has her own language of fighting, which is an advantage, BUT it's also a dissadvantage. She only trained under one teacher, thus only knows what HE, knows, and Bruce has learned more than Cain.

Albeit, they're still deadly at what they do.

That was in "A Death In The Family", when Shiva was suspected of being Jason Todd's mother. He ONLY won when Robin sucker punched Shiva as Bats and Shiva fought (he still had to pretty much pummel her after that). Therefore, Bats has NEVER beaten Shiva one on one. The truth serum was to ask her if she ever had any kids, to which she said no.

[FLIPMODE]

Hmmm I did'nt realize Jason Sucker Punched her.

Then that is different.

[Tracer]

Originally posted by nightwing_38116


That was in "A Death In The Family", when Shiva was suspected of being Jason Todd's mother. He ONLY won when Robin sucker punched Shiva as Bats and Shiva fought (he still had to pretty much pummel her after that). Therefore, Bats has NEVER beaten Shiva one on one. The truth serum was to ask her if she ever had any kids, to which she said no.

I read that issue/book your correct

BUT,

They have always hinted through the years, at the fact that batman is her equal in all combat respects. The only difference being that batman won't kill. Shiva has even challenged has at least once and lost interest in any future challenges for that purpose. Other than revenge a fight that does not end in death does not interest Shiva. This is also one of the reasons that why they tend to stay out of each other's way. Does doesn't want to be in a position to "have to" kill her and she doesn't want a meaningless fight with an adversary who is holding back his best stuff.

If you notice that batman went to her to get his edge back after his back was broken and her only reason for accepting was to get him to cross his "won't kill" line. If he was beneath her in skill/potential, she would have refused if not killed him then for asking.

[Tracer]

Originally posted by nightwing_38116


That was in "A Death In The Family", when Shiva was suspected of being Jason Todd's mother. He ONLY won when Robin sucker punched Shiva as Bats and Shiva fought (he still had to pretty much pummel her after that). Therefore, Bats has NEVER beaten Shiva one on one. The truth serum was to ask her if she ever had any kids, to which she said no.

I read that issue/book your correct

BUT,

They have always hinted through the years, at the fact that Batman is her equal in all combat respects. The only difference being that Batman won't kill. Shiva has even challenged him at least once to the death and lost interest in any future challenges for that purpose. Other than revenge, a fight that does not end in death does not interest Shiva. This is also one of the main reasons why they tend to stay out of each other's way. Batman doesn't want to be in a position to "have to" kill her and she doesn't want a meaningless fight with an adversary who is holding back his best stuff.

If you notice, Batman went to her to get his edge back after his back was broken and her only reason for accepting was to get him to cross his "won't kill" line. If he was beneath her in skill/potential, she would have refused if not killed him then for asking.

Please excuse my previous reply, I hit submit instead of preview.

[FLIPMODE]

Right, That's exactly how I read them Tracer.

That's why I still put Batman at Number 2. There really is'nt anything he has'nt accomplished physically, accept killing in combat. And he holds back all the time. If he did'nt value human Life,..Batman would easily be Better than Shiva. Based off his his physical abilities, then add that with his vast knowledge of most things, and technology, he would be an unstoppable assasin.

So in the end, Shiva is taking the Wasy way out. But for right now, theres almost no way of stopping her, without killing her in the process.