JL Team Dynamics

[Beyond Batman]

I like the show. I just want to make that clear. Off to my thoughts...

A thought occured to me. What if rather than having a handful of JL characters in each episode, they narrowed it down to just one, or at most, two characters. Only having them rarely ALL come together. That way the episodes don't seem too crowded, freeing the writers from saying "Okay, so how can another JL member be involved in this storyline?"

You have to admit, each charecter has such a strong presense, it's difficult to choose who'll be the supporting characters and who's going to take minor parts. Really, they're all main characters with major parts. But to fit that in thirty-minute two-parters... it seems a bit too pressed for time.

I know the show is supposed to portray how the JL team works. But watching "Enemy Below," I was more interested in watching Aquaman's story than anything else. Seeing the rest of the JL didn't seem as important to me.

What do you guys think?

[The Guard]

I think we'd see it devolve into WORLD'S FINEST. As it is, we're getting several team-ups. THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD with GL and The Flash, FURY with Hawkgirl and Diana...

[The Penguin]

The key thing to remember here is they are all part of a team. If you only have one or two heroes on, then it really isn't the Justice League anymore. It's a DC hero fighting his villains with help from no one. A show that featured only The Bat or Supes could just as well be an episode from their series. I agree sometimes it gets congested, but that's why you don't see all 7 each week.

The single/main hero has been done three times now (BTAS, STAS, BB), the premise of JL is that there are many heroes, each capable of working on their own, but they chose to pool their efforts towards one common goal.

[Spider]

Originally posted by The Penguin
The key thing to remember here is they are all part of a team. If you only have one or two heroes on, then it really isn't the Justice League anymore. It's a DC hero fighting his villains with help from no one. A show that featured only The Bat or Supes could just as well be an episode from their series. I agree sometimes it gets congested, but that's why you don't see all 7 each week.

The single/main hero has been done three times now (BTAS, STAS, BB), the premise of JL is that there are many heroes, each capable of working on their own, but they chose to pool their efforts towards one common goal.

Penguin,

Excellent point. I like the team to be a 'team' as well. For me, it's okay that only four or five heroes (for the reasons you stated) make it into each episode.

Was anyone else cringing when Wonder Woman, JJ, GL, and Superman were being submerged under water in last night's episode? I was wondering what that headgear was that each of them had on, and why it prevented *any* of them from breaking out without Mera's (sp.?) help. In other words, why were all four of them weakened to the extent that they were?

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by The Guard
I think we'd see it devolve into WORLD'S FINEST.

You say that like it's a bad thing. :D

I'm actually with Beyond Batman on this.

In another thread, someone alluded to the "Superfriends" and some of the lame things they had to "team up" to take care of: Superman and GL both going to India to get an elephant out of a hole, for instance. There have been spots in JL that feel the same way. Do both Supes and Diana have to be on hand to save that ambulance in "Paradise Lost"?

Penguin says they're "team" and need to work together. But when there's a robbery, does the entire police department rush over to investigate? No, policemen go out (sometimes in pairs) to investigate or deal with a problem. Why can't it be the same way with the JL? You get hints of that: In "In Blackest Night" Supes is initially absent during the first fight with the Manhunters because he's off in China dealing with an earthquake. Why can't we have something similar the rest of the time, where most of the crises are can be handled by one or two team members, and save the big pile-on of superpowers for the really big stuff? Even in "Secret Origins" they split up into teams to tackled different aspects of the invasion.

[Frank White]

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus


You say that like it's a bad thing. :D

I'm actually with Beyond Batman on this.

In another thread, someone alluded to the "Superfriends" and some of the lame things they had to "team up" to take care of: Superman and GL both going to India to get an elephant out of a hole, for instance. There have been spots in JL that feel the same way. Do both Supes and Diana have to be on hand to save that ambulance in "Paradise Lost"?

Penguin says they're "team" and need to work together. But when there's a robbery, does the entire police department rush over to investigate? No, policemen go out (sometimes in pairs) to investigate or deal with a problem. Why can't it be the same way with the JL? You get hints of that: In "In Blackest Night" Supes is initially absent during the first fight with the Manhunters because he's off in China dealing with an earthquake. Why can't we have something similar the rest of the time, where most of the crises are can be handled by one or two team members, and save the big pile-on of superpowers for the really big stuff? Even in "Secret Origins" they split up into teams to tackled different aspects of the invasion.

There was an ambulance in Paradise Lost?

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Frank White


There was an ambulance in Paradise Lost?

Ambulance. Fire truck. Paramedic vehicle. Whatever it was that Supes and Diana rescued when it fell off the overpass at the beginning of PL.

[Web Head]

I think three heroes is a good number. At that point you've got almost half the team in there, without anyone coming off as an extraneous fifth wheel. And with only two or three heroes on a mission the characters are FORCED to interact.

Not to mention that the less heroes you have, the harder each fight will be. In Paradise Lost they just attack in waves. By the time the last guy gets knocked down the first has recovered and is ready to go again. With only three people you need a strategy, you need to work together.

Plus, by making less heroes the norm, when all 7 DO have to come together to beat someone, you'll know they're one bad dude.

[Beyond Batman]

It just seems that the writers are craming the characters in. Where can we put Flash in this situation, where can we put GL in that situation, WW here, MM there, etc.

I'd much rather have episodes where each character is concentrated on, at most three at a time, then in the end have the whole story meet, that way you can see the whole story come together. Kind of like a "Pulp Fiction" kind of story, but with less confusion. Meaning, there will be multiple stories going on, and in the end, you'll see how it all comes together. There was a recent Simpson episode that played like that. "Secret Origins" played pretty well, by splitting up the members, then having them come together at the end. But how often is the world threatened by wolrd domination?

The reason I think this would be better, you'll get the full experience of each character rather than being fed little bits at a time, and you can have more dynamic stories with deeper characterization.

Those of you pushing "the JL is a team," I know you're probably going to disagree with my opinion, that you'd want all or most of them there because they are a team. Well, they can still work as a team, they just don't always have to be shoulder to shoulder in every battle.

[Web Head]

When I watch JL fight they don't seem to do so as a team. Each hero is adapting to working in a group as opposed to doing everything for him/her self. It's like JL really isn't a team, they're just a bunch of people that happen to show up at the fight at the same time. That will change over time, but you have to give it time to change. Show the characters learning to play nice with each other.

[Beyond Batman]

I hardly consider flying in that spaceship together "happening to show up at the same time." They're obviously patroling specific areas, and not arbitrarily showing up.

Don't you think it's a bit difficult to "show the characters playing nice with each other" when characterization is not the focus, rather, how many JL characters can they fill in to the story.

Webhead, I'm sure things will change in the future for JL. I'm refering to what is already out and what we've already seen. I'm more than willing to give the time, but how do you know things will change? Personally, I hope they make improvements, but that also doesn't mean I don't enjoy the show. I'm merely offering positive criticizm.

Back to my topic. I just think the meshing of five to all seven of the DC superheroes doesn't work well with thirty-minute two-parters. There's just too much to be covered in so little time, and that takes so much away from each individual personality.

Okay, Batman is the brains, Supes is the brawn, GL is stern and millitant, WW is the princess, Flash is the cocky showoff, Hawkgirl is "I am woman hear me roar," and MM is the mysterious one.

With JL's quick action pace, their personalities just don't seem to be utilized properly because everyone seems to be "improperly forced" into the story.

Yes, time will tell with this seemingly 85% action 15% characterization... I just hope the writers find a balance and even this out. As much as I enjoy Superman powering his way through, Batman out-witting the competition, Hawkgirl slapping the GL core silly, etc... I'd like to see more mellow dramatic action balancing out the physical action. I think that can be done more effectively if they lessened the number of characters involved in each story. And use the strength of ALL the characters for more special occasions.

[warmachine04]

Though the number of heroes per episode depends on the level of challenge threatening them or earth, three or four heroes per episodes works better in my opinion :).

[Beyond Batman]

It just seems the Earth's security is being threatened every week, and that every JL member has to be present, to the point where they feel cramed in. That dosen't always have to be the case. It doesn't necessarily take a worldwide disaster to make a great JL episode.

I just think it would be a good idea for JL to offer a change of pace from time-to-time. Having the world taken over every week could get very boring very fast. Sometimes it's the little things that count too. :)

[CadaverousEyes]

The 4 episodes (technically 5) that have been shown so far span 8 months, so it's not exactly every week, heh. I can see what you're saying though. I'd like to see an episode that takes place in-between the big adventures as well.