Live-Action on Cartoon Network: Where do you stand?

[Anthony C.]

I actually, even though I'm a fan of The Real Ghostbusters, Captain N The Game Master and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but even I will admit that Gargoyles, Batman The Animated Series, Kim Possible and Avatar The Last Airbender are definately better.

Look, not all complaints concerning the network stem from nostalgia. I've constantly provided constructive complaints towards CN that don't pertain to my childhood:

A. The majority of their shows taking place in school.
B. Reruning some of the same programs too much.


Not every complaint is based on "my generation pwns your generations".

I agree.

I don't like the whole "Wayback then" mentality either, and I'd be kidding myself if I said that alot of the cartoons I grew up with are superior to certain ones in the last few years. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was my favorite show when I was 4 years old until I was about 10, but you will not hear me say that it is a better show than the 2k3 version (because it most certainly is not a better show). Plus Cartoon Network wasn't perfect even in its heyday. The schedule even back then was repetetive.

However, the good outweighed the bad and with each year they improved, but they've platuaed and gone backwards in the last five years. Back in 2001 I was thrilled with the advent of Boomerang because I thought it would be a gateway for more variety of programming (as it obviously was meant to be). But we all know what happened.

Look, I've spread my venom towards the incompetent management of Cartoon Network. Even the lack of foresight into their live action endeavors (read: highly derivative shows) shows that they are again working without a plan. However, I know that the writing is on the wall and that they are not committed to animation and they would probably change their focus to more live action than animation and Cartoon Network of the past is not coming back. In my opinion the Miyazaki month was CN's last hurrah of the past.

At least we have the memories of the past:

-Acme Hour
-Original Toonami (including the introduction of the classic Gundam shows and the Midnight Run)
-Sunday night animation history appreciation night.
-Adult Swim
-And CN's original programming of the past (especially Samurai Jack)

The only thing I hope for now is that the powers that be at Cartoon Network do the honest thing and change the name of the network, so they won't lie to the public any further. Then Cartoon fans will hopefully focus on other elements that will bring animation to more profitability and artistic acceptance and weaken the outdated censorship rules that have harmed it for too long. Marvel has the right idea with their direct to DVD releases and the internet is also the most logical platform besides DVD.

[danreyes1]

Well, it's on the assumption I'll enjoy at least one show they put out when the rest have ended, live-action or animated. So long as it's a show I enjoy, I'll watch. The thing is CN has had the least shows I've enjoyed compared to Nick and Disney, so it's nothing new to me if they only have a few shows I watch. I wouldn't say the network is better or worse today than it was in the 90s.

Yes, well, that's fine for you. The majority of us, however, are quite the opposite. If there's only a few shows on that we like, we actually care. To us it's not a good sign. We liked the channel as well as the content.

I myself have watched less than five hours of daytime CN over the past two weeks. That is not a good thing to me. And I'll admit live-action is not the only reason for that (though a weekend of Goosebumps definitely did not help). I can count the number of shows I like one one hand (and I don't even know if they show a couple of them anymore), they're current advertising campaign is annoying (and not just because it's live-action), and their lack of true variety all keep me from watching what was once my favorite channel.

[DBZNarutoWarrior]

68-6 = 92%

(The 13 doesn't really matter, because I don't think they would ever go so far to change their name... that'd just be sad lol).

That's basically all that needs to be said, CN...... just don't even try it....

[Blackstar]

Another reason for CN's (and kid-vid in general)'s recent attraction to live action is also financial. Kidcoms such as Drake & Josh, Suite Life of Zack and Cody, iCarly and Out of Jimmy's Head are considerably cheaper to produce than an original animated series is, so a basic cable network can whip out 2 or 3 live action kidcoms in the time it would take to produce 1 new animated series. Animation is great, but good animation costs money. On the flip side, however, some shows (like the aforementioned OOJH) are strictly Saturday morning with embarrassing, over-the-top acting and cheezy special effects, and as such (again like OOJH) would actually work better as cartoons.

[Antiyonder]

To prove the biasedness, bringing older cartoons aside from Scooby Doo and Tom & Jerry are considered unthinkable, but older live action programs are perfect?

I mean, Beetlejuice (the cartoon) could have easily been included to exploit the Halloween theme. I mean most of the characters are literally dead to begin with. Plus it is a cartoon that's based off a live action movie.

[D Dubbs]

To prove the biasedness, bringing older cartoons aside from Scooby Doo and Tom & Jerry are considered unthinkable, but older live action programs are perfect?

I mean, Beetlejuice (the cartoon) could have easily been included to exploit the Halloween theme. I mean most of the characters are literally dead to begin with. Plus it is a cartoon that's based off a live action movie.

Jeff Harris pointed this out earlier tonight:


By the way, in case you all never figured it out, Scholastic planned the renaissance of Goosebumps for 2007 all along. They recently reintroduced the book series, and R.L. Stine is currently writing new Goosebumps stories. Now the public is seemingly hooked on the property again, it should be no surprise that a truly new season of Goosebumps is in the planning stages, including truly original stories. I wouldn't be surprised if Goosebumps' current broadcaster would be clamoring for a first look at the new series. Then the strike happened, and stuff gets in the way.

It seems like CN has big plans for Goosebumps. They knew Goosebumps had a bright future from the beginning...Bettlejuice does not.

[Antiyonder]

Jeff Harris pointed this out earlier tonight:



It seems like CN has big plans for Goosebumps. They knew Goosebumps had a bright future from the beginning...Bettlejuice does not.

And yet this proves further their biased feelings towards the medium.

Because they could just as easily make a Goosebumps cartoon. After all, horror cartoons are a pretty rare thing. And they format would lend itself to the stories being told.

Why CN can't use crosspromotion to get more viewers into cartoons spells biasedness or cluelessness. Either way, it makes them look bad.

[GaryPotter]

Bah, Goosebumps is dead, no matter how many more third-grade books that talentless writer makes. That ship sailed away long ago. As far as a new series is concerned, I'm not convinced anything will happen in that respect. If the leadership is actually considering sinking money into this spiraling sinkhole, than CN will probably cease to exist long before any new series is actually made.

Why do I say that? Well, almost all of the kids I teach either read Harry Potter or manga. Simple, unscary crap like R.L. Stine is a joke to them.

[Tay the Cat]

Bah, Goosebumps is dead, no matter how many more third-grade books that talentless writer makes.
Um...

I was never into Gooseebumps myself, but calling R.L. Stine "talentless" is like calling Lewis Carroll talentless. There should be a law against that.

[Movie06]

Why do I say that? Well, almost all of the kids I teach either read Harry Potter or manga. Simple, unscary crap like R.L. Stine is a joke to them.

True kids read Harry Potter and Manga but funny enough, about two years ago, a 7th grader I somewhat knew had to do a report on a author, he was assigned to do a report on R.L. Stine.

[Master Toon]

Why do I say that? Well, almost all of the kids I teach either read Harry Potter or manga. Simple, unscary crap like R.L. Stine is a joke to them.

Harry Potter and crappy Japanese comics aren't scary.

[Blackstar]

Actually, I was hoping that Goosebumps and Out of Jimmy's Head would both crash and burn, thus forcing Cartoon Network to rethink it's stance on live action. No such luck. However, Chowder seems to be doing well in it's brief time of being on the air, so perhaps this will convince CN that animation is the way for the network to go.

[danreyes1]

Why do I say that? Well, almost all of the kids I teach either read Harry Potter or manga. Simple, unscary crap like R.L. Stine is a joke to them.

Ye gods I hate generation Z.

[Movie06]

Ye gods I hate generation Z.

I don't. You have to understand, the world changes, the world can't be the way you wanted it to be.

[macattack]

It's really the tail end of Generation Y and the Millennials that are pissing you off. While the front half of Generation Y seems to be the world-weary, pessimistic emo generation, the latter half and the Millennials seem to prefer more mature, realistic content in their entertainment and environment, perhaps as a side effect to being exposed to Y's choice of music, movies, attitudes, etc.

They're not as creative as Y's first half, and they prefer being more down-to-earth. Part of this is the fault of the school system. But it's also the fault of them being in structured lives so much. They want to break free from that. That's why Hannah Montana is so freaking popular.

Of course, those who live in the inner cities don't have such structure, but they have similiar attitudes, other than having more anger. They're in a lot of trouble and may wind up being worse off than their already struggling parents. So we have Y's emotional tendencies and the Millennials' little adult syndrome combined in the big cities.

Part of this is because of my own pessimistic viewpoint on society, but by 2020 something is going to explode. And the USA is not going to be the same, ever.

[Antiyonder]

I still say when they chose to try live action, they really didn't think it through carefully. Did they look at other options before settling on adding live action programs? Here's one way I could have seen the decision forming:

Exec 1: Ok folks, our ratings have been lower than ever. And we're behnd The Disney Channel as well as Nickelodeon. Any suggestion?

Exec 2: We could put more efforts into our cartoons, sir.

Exec 1: That is the most rediculous idea I've ever heard. Unless you want to go back to flipping burgers at McDonalds, I suggest you shut it.

Exec 3: We could try having our shows vary in settings?

Exec 1: Elaborate.

Exec 3: Well, maybe a show that is set outside the classroom setting and centering on an adult character.

Exec 1: Ok, I take it back. This is the most rediculous idea I've ever heard. Our audience prefers shows where the characters are close to their age group.

Exec 3: That doesn't mean they'll object to something different, sir.

Exec 1: That's the kind of thinking that will land you in a mental ward. So I suggest you refrain from speaking further.

Exec 3: Yes sir (Note to self, keep the info on Santo a secret).

Exec 4: We could try having more programs on our schedule. You know, rather than repeating the same shows constantly.

Exec 1: You know as well as I do that people hate variety. You give them a little of everything, then they'll leave our network cold turkey.

Exec 4: That makes no sense.

Exec 1: Then I'll dumb it down for you. Redundancy good, variety bad. What we need is live action.

Exec 2: But we advertise our network as being 24 hours of animation.

Exec 1: So? MTV and G4 changed their brand of programming.

Exec 3: Yeah, but we were successful with our format for a full decade and two years.

Exec 4: Plus, if people wanted live action, they wouldn't watch our networks at all.

Exec 1: I see your mouths moving, but all I heard is giberish.


Actually, I was hoping that Goosebumps and Out of Jimmy's Head would both crash and burn, thus forcing Cartoon Network to rethink it's stance on live action. No such luck. However, Chowder seems to be doing well in it's brief time of being on the air, so perhaps this will convince CN that animation is the way for the network to go.

As long as any additional live action shows don't carry them past Nickelodeon, I'm hoping that will convince them to go back to animation.

[Master Toon]

I don't. You have to understand, the world changes, the world can't be the way you wanted it to be.

The world changes but morals and entertainment should not change.

[Movie06]

The world changes but morals and entertainment should not change.

I see, you just want to stay in the past do you?

[NinjaJack]

News about Kamen Rider


-11 episodes have been completed

-One of the dark Riders is named Sting

-Starts in March

[Movie06]

News about Kamen Rider
-Starts in March

Really? Cool, I'll be seeing it.

[Blackstar]

Guys, we already have a thread about Kamen Rider. That's not what this discussion is about. We promised to keep the live action discussions restricted to this thread, so why not you keep the KR discussions restricted to the thread devoted to it, M'kay?

[Silverstar]

I see, you just want to stay in the past do you?

You're missing the point; the issue many of us have with CN is not in the least bit about wanting to stay in the past. Of course, CN should progress with the times; that's business. Nothing can stay exactly as it was at one time. However, progressing with the times does not mean abandoning what has proven to be a successful format and betraying the loyal fanbase which was accumulated by said format by bandwagon jumping on some fly-by-night trend that will most likely pass on and be replaced by something else in another 2 to 3 years. Of course, CN should progress and innovate, but they should do it by producing new and better CARTOONS and CARTOON-RELATED programming, not by wasting their time trying to concoct their own equivalents to Hanna Montana or Power Rangers Operation Overdrive. In 5 years time, who's even going to be talking about those shows, let alone wanting to imitate them?

The issue that myself and others here have with CN right now has nothing to do with wanting a return to the past. This anime/live-action sitcom trend is not now and forever, and it's not worth CN's time or money to try and latch onto this fad in the hopes that they might be able to snag Disney/Nick type ratings numbers with it, because they're not going to. Nick and Disney are established TV icons with an already overwhelming following and lots more money to throw around than CN has, so therefore it's fruitless for CN to become a sheep and just follow some lame wannabe-cool trend when it was doing just fine a niche network for animation lovers.

CN wants to grab hold of the Nick/Disney Channel audience? They want to start airing live-action sitcoms and toku action shows? Fine. But they should do it somewhere else. Either create a new network just for that stuff or drop the word "cartoon" from CN's name and remake it into Wannabe Disney Channel Too, and then make Boomerang the new CN. (Jeff Harris has laid out an great plan for such a thing on The X Bridge.) They shouldn't just take a big fat dump all over one of the few bastions for animation that we have currently and in essence say "Screw you!" to everyone who loved Cartoon Network as it was and still loves cartoons in the name of the Almighty Dollar.

Now if animation suddenly becomes vogue again and Nick and Disney Channel decided to re-invent themselves by dropping the live-action sitcoms and toku, in favor of new cartoons, will you just lay back and accept it as "changing with the times"? I wonder how you'd react if the powers that be running cable TV collectively decided that anime and horror were old hat and needed to go.

[Kitschensyngk]

You were once a great channel, and that was okay
But why do you air kiddie garbage all day?
There’s only one reason, to which I’ve no doubt
It’s to find a young audience and whore yourself out!

A device was invented to leave us in the cold
Who are not “hip”, not “with it” or are just far too old
It’s called demographics and it’s represented
TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!

Though some things on your schedule we cannot resist
Eds, Foster’s and Chowder, those cannot be missed
But Gym Partner, Squirrel Boy and Out of Jimmy’s Head
Are crudely-made crapshoots, creatively dead!

We know you’re just copying off Disney and Nick
To shore up your numbers, we see through your trick
For those who you used to make feel young again
You don’t care anymore, well, except after ten

You’re killing niche programming and joining the ranks
Of TV Land, Sci Fi and ratings-starved skanks
You’re making a point which we all have resented:
TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!

Instrumental.

A device was invented to leave us in the cold
Who are not “hip”, not “with it” or are just far too old
It’s called demographics and it’s represented
TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!

TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!
TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!

Thank you.

[Movie06]

Ok, look it's a business, all what CN wanted to do was to stay alive, do you want the network to die a horrible death in the ratings?

[Antiyonder]

Ok, look it's a business, all what CN wanted to do was to stay alive
They could put more effort in their cartoons. Effort.


do you want the network to die a horrible death in the ratings?

Have the ratings skyrocketed past Nickelodeon? Nope, so the change was futile. Also, aside from the shows in their line up, Nickelodeon never changed. And that's why they're ahead of CN.

[Silverstar]

Ok, look it's a business, all what CN wanted to do was to stay alive, do you want the network to die a horrible death in the ratings?

We all know it's a business, no need for you to keep saying that.

And CN wasn't dying in the ratings before, nor was it ever in that kind of danger, it just wasn't bringing in Disney/Nick numbers, that's all. Third place isn't perfect, but it's nothing to sneeze at. CN was doing fine ratings-wise airing nothing but cartoons, they just got greedy.

This reformatting of CN is not a natural progression, as you keep trying to tell everyone it is (why on Earth would the next logical step for an animation channel be live-action? That makes absolutely no sense at all; it's like saying the next logical step for ESPN is airing cooking shows), nor is it a last-ditch effort to keep the station alive, because as previously indicated, it wasn't dying before. This is just an attempt to cash in on a current trend in order to make a ton of money in a hurry, nothing more.

If CN wants to diversify and pull in bigger ratings points, then why not jazz up their schedule a bit? Start airing a Boomerang block for fans of classic cartoons who don't get the channel. Start airing a decent preschool animation block. Create a decent weekday afternoon action cartoon block. Start airing more girl-centric cartoons. Create a forum type show for discussing animation-related issues of the day. Start airing documentaries on animation and biographies about animation legends. Make a show featuring a collection of animated shorts from around the world. Make CN a channel for animation lovers of all ages again, instead of just kowtowing to 12-year-old kids. THAT would bring in the kind of ratings that CN is looking for without betraying what they're supposed to be about. Like Antiyonder says, it's about variety and effort.

[D Dubbs]

You were once a great channel, and that was okay
But why do you air kiddie garbage all day?
There’s only one reason, to which I’ve no doubt
It’s to find a young audience and whore yourself out!

A device was invented to leave us in the cold
Who are not “hip”, not “with it” or are just far too old
It’s called demographics and it’s represented
TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!

Though some things on your schedule we cannot resist
Eds, Foster’s and Chowder, those cannot be missed
But Gym Partner, Squirrel Boy and Out of Jimmy’s Head
Are crudely-made crapshoots, creatively dead!

We know you’re just copying off Disney and Nick
To shore up your numbers, we see through your trick
For those who you used to make feel young again
You don’t care anymore, well, except after ten

You’re killing niche programming and joining the ranks
Of TV Land, Sci Fi and ratings-starved skanks
You’re making a point which we all have resented:
TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!

Instrumental.

A device was invented to leave us in the cold
Who are not “hip”, not “with it” or are just far too old
It’s called demographics and it’s represented
TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!

TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!
TV’S JUST SOMETHING THAT GROWNUPS INVENTED!

Thank you.


LOL. Where do you come up with this stuff?


Have the ratings skyrocketed past Nickelodeon? Nope, so the change was futile.

While CN's goal in the long run is to beat Nick and Disney, I doubt they expect that their ratings will change instantly. So far the live-action properties on CN have done average or above-average than most of their regular programming, which just gives them more incentive to air more live-action.

This change is not futile; it's bringing them more ratings, which is exactly what they're looking for.

[Antiyonder]

While CN's goal in the long run is to beat Nick and Disney, I doubt they expect that their ratings to change instantly.

Then they would have simply put more efforts in the Cartoon they produced than simply choosing live action. And again, it seems like they just instantly chose live action rather than looking for other ways to increase ratings. Again other ways include variety and effort.

[Blackstar]

Cartoon Network may have been firmly lodged in 3rd place after Disney Channel and Nick, but the network was never on the brink of dying. Don't exaggerate. If CN had continued to be all animation 24/7, it would have most likely just continued to run behind Nick and Disney, as it always has. And while the live action programming has brought them some ratings numbers, I don't think that it's been significant enough an increase to really justify the altering of the format. And there's nothing that live action shows and movies could do that more and better animated programming could have accomplished just as effectively.

The only real advantage that live action has over animation is that an animated program costs more money and takes longer to produce than a live action kidcom does. Kidcoms can be produced on the cheap, requiring only a few sets and some marginally talented actors and writers. That's the real reason for the live action stuff. It's not that the viewers prefer live action (I've yet to see any definitive proof to support the claim that kids prefer live action over animation). It's all about the money.

The execs at CN believe (or pretend to believe) that kids love action and that by adding live action programming to the channel's lineup that they're giving it's audience what it wants. Well then, if that's the case. Why not add trash talk shows to it's lineup, as people like Jerry Springer also? Kids like music videos, so why not start airing music videos on CN? Or what about monster trucks? Boys love monster trucks. If CN wants to please it's viewers so badly, then why not have some more programming aimed specifically at girls? Or some sports oriented programming? Kids like all of those things.

My point: It's not CN's job to try to be everyone's everything. CN isn't a general entertainment channel, and if it wants to become one, then they shouldn't call itself CARTOON Network anymore. Comedy Central doesn't air WWII documentaries. ESPN doesn't air soap operas. The Food Network doesn't air horror movies, and there's no reason for Cartoon Network to go live action.

[Movie06]

If it's not called Cartoon Network, then the name wouldn't be just as recognisable.

[GaryPotter]

If it's not called Cartoon Network, then the name wouldn't be just as recognisable.

Look, just knock it off. We know you love live-action or whatever it is CN is doing now, but we don't. We never did and never will. We'll continue to complain all we like, thank you. If you don't want to listen to it, well you're in the wrong forum.

[Movie06]

No offense but are you dense? I said I'm nuetral about live action on CN so I recommend to move on with your lives.

[Antiyonder]

No offense but are you dense? I said I'm nuetral about live action on CN so I recommend to move on with your lives.

We wouldn't be posting the same thing if you would directly respond to our complaints the first time around. You post some then we respond, but the problem is that you always pick and choose what to respond to.

And again I'll state that Cartoon Network is still behind Nick and Disney, thus their change isn't justifiable.

[Master Toon]

No offense but are you dense? I said I'm nuetral about live action on CN so I recommend to move on with your lives.

Cartoon Network made me into the man I am today, ain't no way I'm going to sit back and be quiet about live action ruining the network.

[D Dubbs]

The execs at CN believe (or pretend to believe) that kids love action and that by adding live action programming to the channel's lineup that they're giving it's audience what it wants. Well then, if that's the case. Kids like music videos, so why not start airing music videos on CN?

They have. Haven't you seen "Fall is Just Something that Grown Ups Invented"?


Or what about monster trucks? Boys love monster trucks. If CN wants to please it's viewers so badly, then why not have some more programming aimed specifically at girls? Or some sports oriented programming? Kids like all of those things. The Fried Dynamite and Dynamite Action Squad bumps try to incorporate all those things (save for the girls programming).


My point: It's not CN's job to try to be everyone's everything.But that's exactly what they're trying to do and so far it seems to be working.


Cartoon Network may have been firmly lodged in 3rd place after Disney Channel and Nick, but the network was never on the brink of dying. Don't exaggerate. If CN had continued to be all animation 24/7, it would have most likely just continued to run behind Nick and Disney, as it always has. And while the live action programming has brought them some ratings numbers, I don't think that it's been significant enough an increase to really justify the altering of the format. And there's nothing that live action shows and movies could do that more and better animated programming could have accomplished just as effectively. Cartoon Network is in last place. Last place is not good in the world of business. Yes, perhaps better animated programming could have made a difference, but live-action has proven that it does have an audience on CN, and I don't think CN will forget that anytime soon.

Should a Cartoon Network air live-action? No. But if it gets better ratings, then it will.

[Movie06]

Cartoon Network made me into the man I am today, ain't no way I'm going to sit back and be quiet about live action ruining the network.

Is that so? Will you be sending death threats? Hmm?

[GaryPotter]

Is that so? Will you be sending death threats? Hmm?

Okay look, it seems to me that you don't care about this discussion. With all due respect, you're not at all contributing in a positive or constructive way. All you're doing is goading people into responding to you. It's clear all you want is attention. Well, this isn't the place to get it.

In other words, GTFO!

[Movie06]

I'm just trying to set the record straight ok, that and all I ask for people is to just get over it and move on.

[Master Toon]

They have. Haven't you seen "Fall is Just Something that Grown Ups Invented"?

When Blackstar said "Kids like music videos, so why not start airing music videos on CN?" he probably meant it in 1 of 2 ways.

1. They should play music videos in a block

or

2. They should start playing new ones other than the Fall one.

Then again, I'm not him so I'm not sure.


The Fried Dynamite and Dynamite Action Squad bumps try to incorporate all those things (save for the girls programming).In the weakest way possible. When I was watching Code Lyoko today, I was wondering why they call it the "Dynamite Action Squad" when there is no action and no reason to call it that?


But that's exactly what they're trying to do and so far it seems to be working. It's not working. They're only pleasing kids and that's it.


Cartoon Network is in last place. Last place is not good in the world of business. Yes, perhaps better animated programming could have made a difference, but live-action has proven that it does have an audience on CN, and I don't think CN will forget that anytime soon. I hate when people talk like they work for the network, it's sick.


Is that so? Will you be sending death threats? Hmm?

I don't know how to respond to that. That was just so immature and without reason, I can't even get mad because I don't get it. :confused:

Why are you online? Go outside and play with your 3 dimensional friends with their hair and flesh and clothes and other non-animated stuff.

[D Dubbs]

In the weakest way possible. When I was watching Code Lyoko today, I was wondering why they call it the "Dynamite Action Squad" when there is no action and no reason to call it that?

They go around with dart guns and shoot each other and have monster trucks jumping over teddy bears.


It's not working. They're only pleasing kids and that's it.But that's exactly what they're trying to do. I never said they were aiming to entertain adults, because they obviously aren't.


I hate when people talk like they work for the network, it's sick.Wha...? Where'd you get that idea from?

[Movie06]

I don't know how to respond to that. That was just so immature and without reason, I can't even get mad because I don't get it. :confused:

Sorry, it's just that sometimes fans have a tendacy to take things way too seriously that they start sending death threats.

[Antiyonder]

Cartoon Network is in last place. Last place is not good in the world of business. Yes, perhaps better animated programming could have made a difference, but live-action has proven that it does have an audience on CN, and I don't think CN will forget that anytime soon.

Should a Cartoon Network air live-action? No. But if it gets better ratings, then it will.

The problem isn't the medium but the ones running the network. If you (not you, but the network execs) don't like cartoons, you shouldn't even be working on a network that's suppose to be for 24 hours of cartoons.

These people need to simply resign an get jobs that match their interests like MTV, SpikeTV or my personal favorite for cartoon haters just get a job selling office supplies. No creativity required, just a physically able body.

[GaryPotter]

Then again, I'm not him so I'm not sure.

I'm sure when he said music videos me meant something that was actually GOOD, and not something made by a 5 year old.


I hate when people talk like they work for the network, it's sick.

Seriously. And when you take into account the network's ratings statistics are flawed to begin with, the whole argument falls apart.


I don't know how to respond to that. That was just so immature and without reason, I can't even get mad because I don't get it. :confused:

That dude seriously just confuses me. He gives digilover15 a run for his money in terms of "WTF?" moments.

[Red]

Okay look, it seems to me that you don't care about this discussion. With all due respect, you're not at all contributing in a positive or constructive way. All you're doing is goading people into responding to you. It's clear all you want is attention. Well, this isn't the place to get it.

In other words, GTFO!

Really cause I don't see how you are either.

Everybody has their own opinions, you may not like em or love em, but you need to respect them and realize that they are his opinions. They aren't right or wrong, it's just his view of the situation. And please don't use that kind of language here, this is a family forum, thanks.

[Blackstar]

Just for the record, when I suggested (not seriously, mind you) that CN play music videos, I wasn't talking about stuff that's written by adults, but made for kids like that "Fall is something grown-ups invented" business. I was referring to actual music videos by popular performers. Like the kind that used to be played on MTV.

And by CN "trying to be everybody's everything", I meant that CN could just as easily start airing sporting events or cooking shows or monster truck rallies as well, if their intent is truly to please everyone. However, CN only goal is to get big ratings numbers as quickly as possible by condescending to kids 6-11. And because the execs have this idee fixee that kids like live action just as much (if not more) than animation, that airing live action programming is the way to accomplish this goal. I just want to know where they got this idea that kids like live action more. I've never once heard a kid say "Yeah, cartoons are cool, but real people doing stupid things kicks major butt!" Kids 6-11 don't care about whether a show is animated or not, as long as it entertains them. CN just tries to use that falisy to justify thier taking the network in a new direction.

CN claims that kids like live action, so they're now giving them live action. My point is that kids like sports, music videos and monster truck rallies also, so why should CN stop at live action kidcoms and movies when they could be deviating from it's original format so much more?

[Silverstar]

I'm just trying to set the record straight ok, that and all I ask for people is to just get over it and move on.

No offense meant to you, but that's really not your call to make. You may like live-action on CN or are 'neutral' about it, as you claim to be, but the thing you need to understand is that many people here feel very strongly about this issue. It may not mean anything to you, but it does to lot of us here, and it's not your job to tell us how we're all supposed to feel about it and when to stop talking about it. Nobody's going to "get over it" and start being OK with CN remaking itself into Nick/Disney Too just because you say they should. Goading and smarting off to the other posters isn't going to get your point across any better; it's only going to get a lot of people mad at you, and possibly earn you a report for basically trolling this board, which is what you've been doing as of late. Before, you were just voicing your opinions, but now, you're just acting like a spiteful smart-aleck whose got a chip on his shoulder because he is clearly in the minority with his views. I'm not saying that you're flat-out wrong about your stance on CN (though I strongly disagree with you on this particular issue), but you're not going about your alleged counterpoint in an intelligent or mature manner. Not lately, at least.

Furthermore, I'd just like to point out that this IS the thread for posting how we feel about this issue; therefore, the complainers are completely in the right to do so, just as the ones who are pleased with these changes are equally free to voice their opinions. If you're truly as 'neutral' as you keep telling us you are, then why are you getting snippy and rude with everyone here who's proactively against live-action on CN? As you've been told before, if you don't like the complaints against CN, then simply don't read them, and don't post in the threads featuring them. No one's forcing you to come here or post in any topic here. The fact is that long as CN continues in this vein, then people are going to vent about it, and the venting is not going to stop just because you're tired of hearing it. So in that regard, I would politely suggest that you 'get over it and move on' yourself.

[Movie06]

It's just that I'm getting sick of tired of the complaints, it's like I'm listening to a broken record, it's like all the complaints are literally the same thing, but I guess that's what happens with fanboys, they complain, complain, complain, and complain. Sorry but I had to get that out of my system and for the record, I' am nuetral that and I'm giving the whole live action on CN deal a chance ok? You might never know if CN chruns out something good.

[Silverstar]

It's just that I'm getting sick of tired of the complaints, it's like I'm listening to a broken record, it's like all the complaints are literally the same thing, but that's what happens with fanboys, they complain, complain, complain, and complain. Sorry but I had to get that out of my system.

I know I've said this before too, but then why do you continually read the complaint posts and then complain about the complaints if you're so sick of them? If you no longer wish to take part in any such discussion, then simply don't take part in it. Ignore the threads/posts pertaining to the subject and simply let the complainers get the frustration off their chests.

Also, it's pretty hypocritical of you to accuse the 'anti-live action on CNers' of being "fanboys", when you yourself are an acknowledged anime/horror/toku fanboy. You're no less a fanboy than anyone else here, you're just obsessed with different things. And you yourself are complaining, complaining, complaining, and complaining right now. It's the pot and the kettle.

[Antiyonder]

It's just that I'm getting sick of tired of the complaints, it's like I'm listening to a broken record, it's like all the complaints are literally the same thing, but I guess that's what happens with fanboys, they complain, complain, complain, and complain. Sorry but I had to get that out of my system and for the record, I' am nuetral that and I'm giving the whole live action on CN deal a chance ok? You might never know if CN chruns out something good.

If the network's name was something like Turner's Kids then the LA wouldn't be a big deal. And we wouldn't be making the same complaints if you would respond directly to our response rather than dismissing or skimming them. Here are the comments that you overlook/ignore:

- The ratings haven't seriously increased. They're still behind Disney Channel and Nickelodeon, thus the changes aren't justifiable.

- We simply want them to put in more diversity and effort. All they really have aside from Teen Titans, Scooby Doo and Tom & Jerry is either sitcoms or anime. Not against those mediums, just saying that they need to try other settings as well.

- You might justify the adding of live action because MTV and G4 changed their formats. Difference is that G4 and MTV didn't do well to begin with as a niche network whereas Cartoon Network did just fine for a full 12 years.

Give some direct responses to my comments and you might see less complaints for a change.

[Movie06]

Also, it's pretty hypocritical of you to accuse the 'anti-live action on CNers' of being "fanboys", when you yourself are an acknowledged anime/horror/toku fanboy. You're no less a fanboy than anyone else here, you're just obsessed with different things. And you yourself are complaining, complaining, complaining, and complaining right now. It's the pot and the kettle.

At least I'm willing to give things a try.

[Blackstar]

At least I'm willing to give things a try.

That's good for you, but if that's your stance, then say it once and move on, and don't bad mouth other people for feeling differently. As it's been said before, no one is forcing you to read any of these posts, or even to visit this particular thread at all. If it's a topic that doesn't interest you, then why torture yourself by reading it?

[Antiyonder]

At least I'm willing to give things a try.

Did you even read my recent post? And btw, people did give OOJH a try and the complaints are well earned.

I think you just look at the fact that were complaining and not reading our complaints throughly correct?

[Blackstar]

I am neutral that and I'm giving the whole live action on CN deal a chance ok? You might never know if CN churns out something good.Like I said, good for you. However, I'd like to point out that Cartoon Network has churned out good things in the past, and it can again. The problem is that CN isn't giving most of it's animated programming a chance to do well, or even any chance at all. They're so busy trying to compete with Nick and Disney that they have forgotten who they are.

And please let's not start that "I'll take live action on CN, just as long as it's good live action" jive again, because jive is precisely what it is. That's like saying "I'm OK with Toys R Us selling auto parts, just as long as they're quality auto parts.". Live action, no matter how good it may be, does not need to be airing on CARTOON Network. Period.

[Movie06]

That's good for you, but if that's your stance, then say it once and move on, and don't bad mouth other people for feeling differently. As it's been said before, no one is forcing you to read any of these posts, or even to visit this particular thread at all. If it's a topic that doesn't interest you, then why torture yourself by reading it?

I'm not bad mouthing you guys, I'm just informing you that it's a business, CN had to do what had to be done, it's all about the ratings, they had to stay in the game.

[Blackstar]

I'm not bad mouthing you guys, I'm just informing you that it's a business, CN had to do what had to be done, it's all about the ratings, they had to stay in the game.

...Except that Cartoon Network wasn't dying before. It's ratings may not have been as high as Nick's or Disney Channel's, but the network was never on the brink of shutting down. CN is global. It wouldn't simply "go away", changes or no changes. What they're doing now didn't HAVE to be done. They CHOSE to make the changes that they made. There's a big difference. Of course Cartoon Network could have stayed in the game by remaining a 24 hour animation channel. How can you say that they couldn't when they've been one for over a decade?

Like Antiyonder already said, G4 was a much more niche market before it's format change, and it was only around for a few years, this was not the case with Cartoon Network. CN always had a substantial amount of loyal viewers and survived for 12 years with only slight changes made to it's original format, and it could survive for another 12 years that way if the new people in charge weren't so ratings hungry.

[Silverstar]

I'm not bad mouthing you guys, I'm just informing you that it's a business, CN had to do what had to be done, it's all about the ratings, they had to stay in the game.

And they couldn't 'stay in the game' by remaining true to their original credo of showing "cartoons and nothing but cartoons"?

CN didn't have to abandon their format and go live-action in order to stay afloat at all; that was their choice; they want to compete with Disney and Nick, and they feel that imitating them is the way to do it. They went that route because they wanted to, not because they had to. They were doing well enough as an animation exclusive channel for 12 years. The notion that CN had to start airing Goosebumps, Kamen Rider or even Out of Jimmy's Head just to stay alive is bunk, pure and simple.

They could have just as easily pulled themselves out of the hole by diversifying their lineup to attract animation fans of all ages and demographics again, not just kids specifically. It would have taken a little more effort (and money) to do this than to just start airing 10-year-old live-action shows, but it could work just as well. They would honestly stand out more by being unique as opposed to just being a sheep and following along with now current fads, making them come off like a needy younger sibling trying desperately to be liked and noticed by the bigger kids. CN only began to decline when they began zeroing in on kids and started ignoring everyone else.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind the live-action shows on CN as much if they would just put the same amount of time, effort, care and money into producing new, more diverse and a better quality of animated programming as well (though in the case of OOJH, they're clearly not trying very hard at all on either art form), and if they weren't so clearly bent on making the cartoons a secondary thought. I still wouldn't agree with live-action being on Cartoon Network, but at least then I could say that they weren't flat-out turning their backs on their audience.

[Ahiru-kun]

I still don't get why people are complaining about this.

The two (CN is picking up more live action but is also picking up more animation so it evens out) live action shows OOJH and Goosebumps are only aired regularly on weekends and inconsistently during the weekdays so it's not as if CN is treating them like they're the top shows. That goes to Billy and Mandy and Naruto.

I don't think that CN is trying to emulate Disney and Nickelodeon. I think they tried experimenting with going outside the norm, and it's been somewhat successful.

Some see live action being shown on CN as a contradiction of the very name of the network. Its name is part of its legacy. Cartoon Network is the first cable network to air animated shows 24/7 and was a leading contributor to the 90's animation renaissance. This legacy will always remain. And as stated previously, cartoons are still CN's primary programming.

Also, when was it ever officially stated that CN would air animation and animation only? Never. People just assumed that because the of its name.

[Antiyonder]

I still don't get why people are complaining about this.

Like with Movie06, you merely look at the fact that we're complaining. You don't seem to actually read and take in the words we're saying. You think we're wrong in our opinions and comments? Fine, but actually read the specifics of our comments and tell us why we are wrong.

You don't just say "I'm right, you're wrong" without giving thought to our comments. So go back and read our comments to understand our opinion on the matter and then specify the flaw of our comments.

I mean it seems your comment was aimed at everyone rather than directly responding to particular comments. If you would respond to us directly the first time, then we would have no reason to make the same countless complaints. It seems like I have to always simplify my comments before people like you acknowledge them.


As for a reason why Cartoon Network should remain as a cartoon only channel. Because live action shows are a dime a dozen. You want live action you have many other channels to give you that option. Thus it is kind of a waste for CN to fill some of their slots with Live Action. It kills the uniqueness.


That said, go back and read some of our other comments and give more of a direct response to them and you might understand our opinions better. And read thoroughly rather than skimming.

[Ahiru-kun]

Like with Movie06, you merely look at the fact that we're complaining. You don't seem to actually read and take in the words we're saying. You think we're wrong in our opinions and comments? Fine, but actually read the specifics of our comments and tell us why we are wrong.

You don't just say "I'm right, you're wrong" without giving thought to our comments. So go back and read our comments to understand our opinion on the matter and then specify the flaw of our comments.

I mean it seems your comment was aimed at everyone rather than directly responding. If you would respond to us directly the first time, then we would have no reason to make the same countless complaints. It seems like I have to always simplify my comments before people like you acknowledge them.

Maybe I should have said so in my previous post, but I thought it was clear that I wasn't aiming my comments directly towards anyone on this forum but to the people who have been critical of this whole thing and blowing it out of proportion.

I don't think anyone is wrong when they have an opinion, but I can disagree with their disagreements. It doesn't mean I don't respect them.

[Antiyonder]

Maybe I should have said so in my previous post, but I thought it was clear that I wasn't aiming my comments directly towards anyone on this forum but to the people who have been critical of this whole thing and blowing it out of proportion.

I know, you were giving more of an indirect response to all those who you disagree with.

I don't think anyone is wrong when they have an opinion, but I can disagree with their disagreements. It doesn't mean I don't respect them.[/quote]

Regardless, you mentioned not understanding the reason behind our complaints (I still don't get why people are complaining about this), and I feel you would undertstand our complaining if you would read our specific comments on this topic. And I would like to see your opinions on the specifics of our complaints rather than the complaint itself.

[Silverstar]

When was it ever officially stated that CN would air animation and animation only? Never. People just assumed that because the of its name.

Actually, it was stated in 1995, when Cartoon Network claimed that they would show "Cartoons and nothing but cartoons, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, until the end of time." Time, apparently, ended in 2005.


The two (CN is picking up more live action but is also picking up more animation so it evens out) live action shows OOJH and Goosebumps are only aired regularly on weekends and inconsistently during the weekdays so it's not as if CN is treating them like they're the top shows. That goes to Billy and Mandy and Naruto.

This has been going on before those shows; they've been experimenting with live-action movies since '05, some of which (like Snow Day and The School of Rock) had absolutely nothing to do with animation, nor did they feature any animation. Plus, they're planning to add Big Bad Beetleborgs and Kamen Rider (2 more live-action toku shows) to their lineup in '08, and there's also an additional live-action pilot produced by David Duchovny in development, an iCarly ripoff. On top of that, the promos for the network are putting the emphasis on the kids rather than the cartoons, case in point that "Fall is Just Something that Grown-Ups Invented" thing, which would more appropriate for Nickelodeon than Cartoon Network.

If they were relegating the live-action shows to a single weekend block (called the Live-Action Lounge or Live-Action Lunchbox or something like that) and they only aired these shows during that block, then I would agree with you that there was a balance and the CN suits hadn't sold their souls. But judging by what CN is doing currently and how they've been treating their animated shows as of late, it's clear that the live-action is first and foremost in their minds, and it's clearly set to take over. The cartoons are becoming an afterthought on Cartoon Network, and that's what many people are disturbed by.

[GaryPotter]

WTF? Big Bad Beetleborgs? This is the first I've heard of that, although I don't doubt you. Good God, that show is even older than Goosebumps. Sure, it was funny when it was on Fox Kids but c'mon enough of this bullcrap.

iCarly ripoff huh? That show is already a ripoff. They're making a ripoff of a ripoff. Genius, pure genius.

Rest in peace, Cartoon Network 1992-2005

[Antiyonder]

I have to wonder what was meant by the commercial to the Ben 10 movie. The actor palying been says that when adults watch it, they won't view it as kiddish. Was that suppose to be a dig at the Cartoon or something?

[GaryPotter]

I have to wonder what was meant by the commercial to the Ben 10 movie. The actor playing ben says that when adults watch it, they won't view it as kiddish. Was that suppose to be a dig at the Cartoon or something?

Let's hope so, because that show sucks hugely. I'm guessing it'll be more mature than the show seeing as how its rated PG V.

But still, CN fails for even thinking about this show on a network that was once about cartoons.

[Antiyonder]

Let's hope so, because that show sucks hugely. I'm guessing it'll be more mature than the show seeing as how its rated PG V.

But still, CN fails for even thinking about this show on a network that was once about cartoons.

Actually, the cartoon isn't so bad. What I meant was that childish comment directed towards cartoons in general?

[GaryPotter]

Actually, the cartoon isn't so bad. What I meant was that childish comment directed towards cartoons in general?

Probably. These people hate cartoons, after all.

[Master Toon]

Actually, the cartoon isn't so bad. What I meant was that childish comment directed towards cartoons in general?

I think so. I think he was implying that since it's live action it won't be seen as something kiddish. This is almost like subliminal messaging.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I'm pretty sure he was refering to the fact that Ben 10 is a show and movie targeted at children but supposedly the movie will be "edgier". Look at it this way. Transformers tv shows VS Transformers live-action movie. Though I suppose it's a bit more like TMNT cartoons vs the TMNT animated movie but both of those have nostalgia backing them.

[Master Toon]

The actor playing Ben also said the movie would be more realistic. Now how can a scifi/fantasy be more realistic with a boy who can turn into 10+ different aliens? I don't think anyone can justify what he said.

[Gokou Ruri]

The actor playing Ben also said the movie would be more realistic. Now how can a scifi/fantasy be more realistic with a boy who can turn into 10+ different aliens? I don't think anyone can justify what he said. By handling it in a more realistic manner, such as how it would happen if it happened in real life.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Uh huh... Well I've got to say if real life was that corny I wouldn't want to keep living.

[TheVofSteel]

Plus, they're planning to add Big Bad Beetleborgs and Kamen Rider (2 more live-action toku shows) to their lineup in '08

Big Bad Beetleborgs? Wasn't that just a rumor from Wikipedia, or has it been confirmed?



iCarly ripoff huh? That show is already a ripoff.


A ripoff of what? The only thing similar to iCarly that I can think of was also done by Nickelodeon....it was that traveling web show thing on it's website back in the mid-1990's. I don't remember it's name though

[danreyes1]

At least I'm willing to give things a try.

You know, I was at first. But that just lead to them playing more live action. Three and a half movies weren't too bad. Random innumerable full live action movies and regularly playing live action shows are horrible.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I come to CN for cartoons and cartoons alone.

[Master Toon]

By handling it in a more realistic manner, such as how it would happen if it happened in real life.

But I think the cartoon does that just fine.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. I come to CN for cartoons and cartoons alone.

Me too.

[Blackstar]

By handling it in a more realistic manner, such as how it would happen if it happened in real life.

I suppose that's true, but what does Ben 10 (or any TV show, for that matter) have to do with real life anyway? Personally, I watch TV in order to escape from reality.

[Movie06]

I suppose that's true, but what does Ben 10 (or any TV show, for that matter) have to do with real life anyway? Personally, I watch TV in order to escape from reality.

Well Transformers did a similar idea and that was before Ben 10.

[Gokou Ruri]

But I think the cartoon does that just fine. Well, yes, the cartoon is far from unrealistic, but until we see the movie we can't confirm (though from the preview it shows Ben more hesitant to Go Hero back at his school since it'll have more consequences, compared to how he is during the show where he'll Go Hero at the drop of a hat, which is how it would be in real life)

But yeah, compared to other action shows on the network, it's fairly realistic already.

[Master Toon]

(though from the preview it shows Ben more hesitant to Go Hero back at his school since it'll have more consequences, compared to how he is during the show where he'll Go Hero at the drop of a hat, which is how it would be in real life)

But that's just it. They're on summer vacation where he can afford strangers to see him. Like that scene in the second Spider-Man movie, New York is a big place so no one on the train knew he was Peter Parker and most likely they'll forget his face. If they made an episode of Ben 10 where he goes back home I'm sure he won't just go hero at home and in the school's halls. But Gryph you make a good point, we won't know for sure until we see the movie ourselves.

[Antiyonder]

Now this post from the Jamie Kellner thread confirms why Cartoon Network hasn't been doing well:


Didn't we stop demonizing him years ago? Granted, a LOT of his managerial practices did wreck havoc on Turner Broadcasting and he did bring in a lot of the people who engineered the current direction of Cartoon Network, but he's powerless now. He no longer has an ownership stake of The WB (this was even before The WB was gone). He's not in any high position at Time Warner, and to be honest, the incoming CEO of Time Warner, Jeff Bewkes, is a far worse individual than Kellner could ever become. Why?

He's the guy who PUT Kellner in the Turner position and shares many of his beliefs. Bewkes is the guy who is pretty much turning Warner Bros. Animation into a direct-to-video and internet production company (there aren't any broadcast or cable premieres coming from the studio in the forseeable future) and believes that synergy (cooperation between the units) is pointless and crap.

Kellner was bad. Bewkes is worse.

Reason why the network was doing better in ratings before was due to the folks running the network. They enjoyed showing the cartoons as much as we enjoyed watching them. Whereas today, they want viewers to feel embarassed for enjoying animation. Heck as we can see from the commercials, the actor playing the live action says that parents are more likely to enjoy the movie as it's less childish than the show (because the movie is live action whereas the show is a cartoon).

And Gryph, you mentioned that they air plenty of programs already. Sorry, but the network has about 22 hours inbetween Adult Swim, so they should be airing at least 25-40 shows. Here's a schedule I proposed in the "Rebuild CN How You See Fit":

6:00AM Yu-Gi-Oh (Original Series)
6:30AM Pokemon (Older episodes)
7:00AM Transformers Armada
7:30AM Camp Lazlo
8:00AM Courage The Cowardly Dog
8:30AM Ed, Edd & Eddy
9:00AM Tom & Jerry Kids
9:30AM A Pup Named Scooby-Doo/The Flintstone Kids
10:00AM Baby Looney Tunes
10:30AM The Land Before Time
11:00AM Krypto The Superdog
11:30AM Hamtaro
12:00PM Sylvester & Tweety's Mysteries
12:30PM What's New Scooby Doo
1:00PM Batman Beyond/Static Shock
1:30PM Totally Spies
2:00PM He-Man Master Of The Universe (2002)
2:30PM Code Lyoko
3:00PM My Partner's A Gym Monkey
3:30PM Out Of Jimmy's Head
4:00PM Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends
4:30PM The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy
5:00PM Codename Kids Next Door
5:30PM Teen Titans/The Batman
6:00PM Ben 10/Ben 10 Alien Force
6:30PM Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
7:00PM Pokemon Diamond & Pearl
7:30PM Yu-Gi-Oh GX
8:00PM Justice League/Justice League Unlimited
8:30PM Transformers Cybertron
9:00PM Dragon Ball/Dragonball Z Uncut/GT
10:00PM One Piece
10:30PM Naruto

Now I'm not saying my schedule idea is perfect, but it has more of the "something for everyone" feel compared to the line up now.

[GaryPotter]

Damn man, you forgot to bring back weekday Toonami.

Ah Hamtaro. That show didn't get nearly enough respect. It was fun, unlike the dreck they have now.

[Antiyonder]

Damn man, you forgot to bring back weekday Toonami.

Ah Hamtaro. That show didn't get nearly enough respect. It was fun, unlike the dreck they have now.

That is the weekday schedule, and Toonami shows are the ones from 5:30PM to 10:30PM.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Now this post from the Jamie Kellner thread confirms why Cartoon Network hasn't been doing well:



Reason why the network was doing better in ratings before was due to the folks running the network. They enjoyed showing the cartoons as much as we enjoyed watching them. Whereas today, they want viewers to feel embarassed for enjoying animation. Heck as we can see from the commercials, the actor playing the live action says that parents are more likely to enjoy the movie as it's less childish than the show (because the movie is live action whereas the show is a cartoon).

And Gryph, you mentioned that they air plenty of programs already. Sorry, but the network has about 22 hours inbetween Adult Swim, so they should be airing at least 25-40 shows. Here's a schedule I proposed in the "Rebuild CN How You See Fit":

6:00AM Yu-Gi-Oh (Original Series)
6:30AM Pokemon (Older episodes)
7:00AM Transformers Armada
7:30AM Camp Lazlo
8:00AM Courage The Cowardly Dog
8:30AM Ed, Edd & Eddy
9:00AM Tom & Jerry Kids
9:30AM A Pup Named Scooby-Doo/The Flintstone Kids
10:00AM Baby Looney Tunes
10:30AM The Land Before Time
11:00AM Krypto The Superdog
11:30AM Hamtaro
12:00PM Sylvester & Tweety's Mysteries
12:30PM What's New Scooby Doo
1:00PM Batman Beyond/Static Shock
1:30PM Totally Spies
2:00PM He-Man Master Of The Universe (2002)
2:30PM Code Lyoko
3:00PM My Partner's A Gym Monkey
3:30PM Out Of Jimmy's Head
4:00PM Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends
4:30PM The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy
5:00PM Codename Kids Next Door
5:30PM Teen Titans/The Batman
6:00PM Ben 10/Ben 10 Alien Force
6:30PM Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
7:00PM Pokemon Diamond & Pearl
7:30PM Yu-Gi-Oh GX
8:00PM Justice League/Justice League Unlimited
8:30PM Transformers Cybertron
9:00PM Dragon Ball/Dragonball Z Uncut/GT
10:00PM One Piece
10:30PM Naruto

Now I'm not saying my schedule idea is perfect, but it has more of the "something for everyone" feel compared to the line up now.

Yeah I'd watch that but I hardly consider GX worthy of a prime time slot and what's with the Transformers double shot?

I would also prefer if Cybertron and TMNT swapped places as TMNT next to Justice League would be far too fantastic for words.

-----------------------

Back to the topic at hand...

If Live Action Ben 10 does well then I'm afraid people who don't want more live action on CN are up a creek without a paddle. Such is life...

But I feel the need to comment on something. Movie06, you say you're nuetral but your stance seems anything but nuetral. As if you were nuetral you wouldn't mind either side of the debate. Instead I see you complaining about complainers. That's not neutral at all.

[Antiyonder]

Aside from having 91 episodes, doesn't CN get money from the JL Digests and JLU issues and digests? If so, airing it would be in their best interests. Besides plenty of shows on DVD still air on basic cable.

[GaryPotter]

Unfortunately, I believe Jetix now has the right to the TMNT series.

[JDNobodi]

I just stopped to say I voted for "They should change their name first, then it will be alright." It’s not that I okay with it, but I feel that is the way network is headed. I would prefer the Cartoon Network of old compare to what the network has become. I know I’m not in the network’s demographic, and there is nothing I could do about it. Let them change the network into kiddie fodder. I’m just going to spend my time somewhere else.

[Silverstar]

Ah Hamtaro. That show didn't get nearly enough respect. It was fun, unlike the dreck they have now.

Hamtaro was an OK show, but it didn't belong on Toonami. That was during the time that CN was under a phase where they put any Japanese show on Toonami, regardless of whether it was suited for the block or not. If CN still had a preschool lineup on weekday mornings to early afternoons, Hamtaro would be a good fit.

[Space Cadet]

Aside from having 91 episodes, doesn't CN get money from the JL Digests and JLU issues and digests?

Nope, DC does.

[Antiyonder]

One thing I've toyed with on another proposed schedule was using Flintstones and Speed Racer as the lead in or follow up to Adult Swim because:

Speed Racer- Aired at nights frequently on CN before Adult Swim and would be suitable for airing with the upcoming movie.

Flintstones- While AS might not be able to get Simpsons, this show would be just as good a choice as it was the first long cartoon prior to Simpsons. Plus it was intended for the adult audience in the first place. By adult, I mean in the Honeymooners type way, not the Family Guy type.


Yeah I'd watch that but I hardly consider GX worthy of a prime time slot and what's with the Transformers double shot?

I would also prefer if Cybertron and TMNT swapped places as TMNT next to Justice League would be far too fantastic for words.

Sure GX isn't the best show on the network, but I don't really think it's the worst either. Certainly better than OOJH. As for Transformers, if you're asking why I have Armada on in the morning with Cybertron in the evening, it's part of my theme of the network to have old shows/older versions of current shows in the morning with the new shows/newer versions of older shows in the evening.

As far as my schedule goes, when the next Pokemon series has enough episodes for weekdays, Diamond and Pearl will be inserted into Pokemon Classics. When Transformers Animated gets a sufficient number of episodes for the weekday, then Cybertron will air in rotation with Armada in it's morning slot.


Hamtaro was an OK show, but it didn't belong on Toonami. That was during the time that CN was under a phase where they put any Japanese show on Toonami, regardless of whether it was suited for the block or not. If CN still had a preschool lineup on weekday mornings to early afternoons, Hamtaro would be a good fit.

Which is why I placed it in the schedule as I did. Those shows compliment it pretty well right?


Nope, DC does.
Even so, I don't see why the show should be an embarassment for the network. And yes, I mean embarassed. Afterall, why else would you move a recently finished show to Boomerang when it's not even half a decade old. I understand Duck Dodgers and Krypto, but JL/JLU was one of their more successful shows and would have been ideal airing to promote Superman Returns (Especially Injustice For All, The Cadmus Four Parter and pretty much the majority of the third season of JLU as Luthor is more prominent).

[Thunderstarwarp]

I'm sorry but I grew up watch Cartoon Network with only cartoons! Animated Commercials, heck even Fridays when it was around had the cartoons host the show! I'm sorry but I think Cartoon Network is heading the wrong direction with this live action stuff. Before you know it they will probably change the name of the Network. But...if worst comes to worst...hey what are you going to do...besides complain but that won't get you anywhere.

[Master Toon]

But...if worst comes to worst...hey what are you going to do...besides complain but that won't get you anywhere.

Complaining got Kim Possible back and complaining got The Secret Saturdays changed back to The Secret Saturdays (Don't ask what CN was going to call it).

[Antiyonder]

Complaining got Kim Possible back and complaining got The Secret Saturdays changed back to The Secret Saturdays (Don't ask what CN was going to call it).

They changed it back? What about Santo? Is it confirmed if it's still in production or did they really cancel it?

[Thunderstarwarp]

Complaining got Kim Possible back and complaining got The Secret Saturdays changed back to The Secret Saturdays (Don't ask what CN was going to call it).
...I stand corrected...I guess

[Space Cadet]

Complaining got Kim Possible back and complaining got The Secret Saturdays changed back to The Secret Saturdays (Don't ask what CN was going to call it).

Where did you find out that they changed back the name?

[TheVofSteel]

Speed Racer- Aired at nights frequently on CN before Adult Swim and would be suitable for airing with the upcoming movie.


Speaking of that, isn't Nicktoons Network launching a new Speed Racer series from Animation Collective in May 2008 to coincide with the movie?

[Master Toon]

They changed it back? What about Santo? Is it confirmed if it's still in production or did they really cancel it?

I have no info on Santo right now but I'm on it tomorrow morning.


...I stand corrected...I guess

I just don't believe in giving up. Sure complaining and petitions don't always work but you have to fight for what you believe in.


Where did you find out that they changed back the name?

Right here (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=201585) my friend. :)

[Space Cadet]

Speaking of that, isn't Nicktoons Network launching a new Speed Racer series from Animation Collective in May 2008 to coincide with the movie?

Yes, it's suppose to be a continuation from the original series.

[Thunderstarwarp]

I just don't believe in giving up. Sure complaining and petitions don't always work but you have to fight for what you believe in.
True that! That's how I am...it's just I don't complain (although I talked) I find other methods to get my things across

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Unfortunately, I believe Jetix now has the right to the TMNT series.

I wish, it's been on Jetix UK and Jetix LA for a while now but I don't believe it's Jetix US bound yet but if it is... awesome.

[Gokou Ruri]

Complaining got Kim Possible back and complaining got The Secret Saturdays changed back to The Secret Saturdays (Don't ask what CN was going to call it). More like the ratings and getting rid of the 65 Episode rule got Kim Possible renewed for another season.

[Antiyonder]

Just out of curiousity, what are their most popular shows as of now?

[Gokou Ruri]

Just out of curiousity, what are their most popular shows as of now? Disney? Hannah Montana is the first, and Wizards of Waverly Place and The Suite Life of Zack and Cody are usually switching 2nd and 3rd spots; though Wizards is usually there more often than Suite Life (since SL is ending). Nickelodeon's are Spongebob, Zoey 101, iCarly, and Back at Barnyard... and they tend to shift every week in the rating, so Nickelodeon is a bit more chaotic between shows where as Hannah Montana is always first for Disney by a large gap. CN's are Ben 10 and Chowder.

[Antiyonder]

Disney? Hannah Montana is the first, and Wizards of Waverly Place and The Suite Life of Zack and Cody are usually switching 2nd and 3rd spots; though Wizards is usually there more often than Suite Life (since SL is ending). Nickelodeon's are Spongebob, Zoey 101, iCarly, and Back at Barnyard... and they tend to shift every week in the rating, so Nickelodeon is a bit more chaotic between shows where as Hannah Montana is always first for Disney by a large gap. CN's are Ben 10 and Chowder.

I was going for the Cartoons which are aired more often than others (on CN). From what I gather, CN has about 6-8 shows (as far as I'm guessing). I'm going to work up another schedule tomorrow, but as a compromise I could see giving their most popular show two airings a day at the most, from say 6:00 to 10:00 AM in the morning, with the encore airings from 6:00 PM-10:00 PM. That way at least, the encores don't feel so redundant.

[Blackstar]

What bothers me most of all is how CN's promotions are still trying to pretend that they haven't changed, when it's obvious to anyone with 2 working eyes that they have. CN is no longer interested in pleasing animation fans, they only want to become Nickelodeon Too, but they want to pretend that it's been this way all along and we just never noticed it before. Don't insult my intelligence, CN. You don't want to be Cartoon Network anymore; you want to be Nickelodeon Too. Why not just admit it? Stop BS-ing the people and change your name to Kids' Network or Crap Network or some such thing?

Like I said before, CN needs to change it's name if they insist on churning out the live action crap. Being a "Cartoon" Network in name only just makes them look like the ratings grabbing hypocrites that they are. If CN wants to be a kids' channel and not an animation channel, they should take 'cartoon' out of it's name. By keeping the word in the name, people are going to think that they'll go back at some point, and clearly this is not CN's intention. It's not my concern if CN wants to show both animation and live action, but they should at least get a new name that reflects this change in attitude. If the Carton Network isn't dead, it's terminal.


Also, when was it ever officially stated that CN would air animation and animation only? Never. People just assumed that because the of its name.No offense meant to you, but that's just dumb. CN has been a 24 hour animation channel for the 1st 12 years of it's life, up until 2005. And why wouldn't one assume that a channel that calls itself CARTOON Network would only show CARTOONS? That's like saying "When did The Movie Channel claim to show nothing but movies?" or "When did the Golf Channel claim to only show golf related programming?" Do you really believe that nonsense you typed to be true?

[danreyes1]

No offense meant to you, but that's just dumb. CN has been a 24 hour animation channel for the 1st 12 years of it's life, up until 2005. And why wouldn't one assume that a channel that calls itself CARTOON Network would only show CARTOONS? That's like saying "When did The Movie Channel claim to show nothing but movies?" or "When did the Golf Channel claim to only show golf related programming?" Do you really believe that nonsense you typed to be true?

Plus we grew up with ads like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDN3wyxIJPk)that promised pure cartoons.

[Master Toon]

Plus we grew up with ads like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDN3wyxIJPk)that promised pure cartoons.

That proved him wrong. :D

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Even if they never made such promos. Being the Cartoon Network it's a simple assumption that they would air mostly cartoons if not only cartoons. And for years cartoons were all CN did play (and I'm aware that back in the day they had live actiony stuff on occasion but when I started watching CN I didn't see any live action, not until about 2005).

This is where I stand on live action. CN shouldn't air it and they should focus on making great cartoons.

Well... then Ben 10: RAT came along and blew away ratings expectations and became their #1 rated telecast with multiple demos. To which I cannot say live action wont benefit CN. Those who argue otherwise have no defenses left. I'll certainly keep saying I don't want live action on CN but now I can't rightfully say they wont get the viewers they want with live action content.

What works for them is live action ACTION content. Unfortunately for us, they'll consider any live action brand just as worth while as another and continue to develop live action comedy programing in hopes of undercutting Nick and Disney. Which means more Jimmy's and less Ben's and that's a very poor choice on their part but CN is going to do whatever they want reguardless of the result and their hell bent on believing live action comedies aimed slightly younger than Nick and Disney's ones will get them the viewers they want... and success of any type of live action is enough for them to believe they're doing exactly what they should be doing.

Honestly I'm dreading the upfront coming in the first quarter of 2008 but perhaps by then I wont even care anymore.

[Master Toon]

Cartoon Network's perception is off-balance. No matter how many ratings they get it still doesn't make things right. It's like a videogame store selling more movies than games. They might make a little more but what about their loyal costumers? Imagine seeing your game store resembling SunCoast or Blockbuster with hundreds of shelves of movies and one bin of videogames. And let's say the store's name is "Videogame Mania". How would it look if there were posters and coupons focused on new DVD releases? Or imagine Girl Scouts selling silver, gold, and platinum jewelry and telling people, cookies weren't making our troop enough money but jewelry works for us. Of course it does, but why would Girl Scouts sell stuff like that?

[Blackstar]

Cartoon Network's perception is off-balance. No matter how many ratings they get it still doesn't make things right. It's like a videogame store selling more movies than games. They might make a little more but what about their loyal costumers? Imagine seeing your game store resembling SunCoast or Blockbuster with hundreds of shelves of movies and one bin of videogames. And let's say the store's name is "Videogame Mania". How would it look if there were posters and coupons focused on new DVD releases? Or imagine Girl Scouts selling silver, gold, and platinum jewelry and telling people, cookies weren't making our troop enough money but jewelry works for us. Of course it does, but why would Girl Scouts sell stuff like that?

Well said, Master Toon. It's like if Radio Shack suddenly starting selling fruit beverages, and gradually we started seeing more and more fruit beverages being sold at Radio Shack and less electronics, yet the owners still insisted on the store being called Radio Shack, even though they were pushing the sales of the fruit beverages. Sure, they would be making more money, but at the price of losing their oldest and most loyal customers.

[Umandsf]

I never liked the idea of live-action on Cartoon Network. Just doesn't sit right with me. However, I don't hate Cartoon Network for doing so. I'm just disappointed. The only show airing now that I enjoy watching is Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. For next year, maybe things will be better. I'm looking forward to the Ed, Edd, and Eddy movie, any news on Milky Way and the Galaxy Girls, the imminent announcement of Powerpuff Girls Z and the hope that the network may air Sgt. Frog. The live-action stuff...I couldn't care less.

[Antiyonder]

Look, to remove any doubts on whether CN is right or wrong.

The fact of the matter is that Cartoon Network was successful on it's original format longer than MTV or G4 proves that a network can last on Cartoons alone.

They simply need to start catering to everybody. No I don't mean all ages (thoguh it would be nice). I mean catering to more than just the sitcom and anime crowd (even then anime fans get the finger). I'm talking comic book shows, original action shows, one of the Looney Tunesesque shows.

Cut down on airing your hit shows. Just because they like something doesn't mean you give something to them excessively. I mean if a kid likes Pepperoni Pizza, Ham & Cheese Hot Pockets and Hot Dogs, do you feed him only those particular food items and nothing more? That's pretty much what CN is doing to their viewers.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Well I thought I'd throw this out there...

This is what I expect from CN if they continue their current path.

Monday - Thursday

06:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
06:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:00 - Live Action [6-11]
07:30 - Live Action [6-11]
08:00 - Cartoon [2-11]
08:30 - Cartoon [2-11]
09:00 - Cartoon [2-11]
09:30 - Cartoon [2-11]
10:00 - Cartoon [2-5]
10:30 - Cartoon [2-5]
11:00 - Live Action [2-5]
11:30 - Live Action [2-5]
12:00 - Live Action [2-5]
12:30 - Live Action [2-5]
01:00 - Cartoon [2-11]
01:30 - Cartoon [2-11]
02:00 - Cartoon [2-11]
02:30 - Cartoon [2-11]
03:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
03:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
04:00 - Live Action [6-11]
04:30 - Live Action [6-11]
05:00 - Live Action [6-11]
05:30 - Live Action [6-11]
06:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
06:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
08:00 - Live Action [6-14]
08:30 - Live Action [6-14]
09:00 - Live Action [6-14]
09:30 - Cartoon [6-14]
10:00 - Cartoon [6-14]
10:30 - Cartoon [6-14]
11:00 - [adultswim]

Friday

06:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
06:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:00 - Live Action [6-11]
07:30 - Live Action [6-11]
08:00 - Cartoon [2-11]
08:30 - Cartoon [2-11]
09:00 - Cartoon [2-11]
09:30 - Cartoon [2-11]
10:00 - Cartoon [2-5]
10:30 - Cartoon [2-5]
11:00 - Live Action [2-5]
11:30 - Live Action [2-5]
12:00 - Live Action [2-5]
12:30 - Live Action [2-5]
01:00 - Cartoon [2-11]
01:30 - Cartoon [2-11]
02:00 - Cartoon [2-11]
02:30 - Cartoon [2-11]
03:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
03:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
04:00 - Live Action [6-11]
04:30 - Live Action [6-11]
05:00 - Live Action [6-11]
05:30 - Live Action [6-11]
06:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
06:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:00 - Live Action [6-11]
07:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
08:00 - Live Action [6-14]
08:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
09:00 - Live Action [6-11]
09:30 - Cartoon [6-14]
10:00 - Live Action [6-14]
10:30 - Cartoon [6-14]
11:00 - [adultswim]

Saturday

06:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
06:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
08:00 - Live Action [6-11]
08:30 - Live Action [6-11]
09:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
09:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
10:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
10:30 - Live Action [6-11]
11:00 - Live Action [6-11]
11:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
12:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
12:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
01:00 - Live Action [6-11]
01:30 - Live Action [6-11]
02:00 - Live Action [6-11]
02:30 - Live Action [6-11]
03:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
03:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
04:00 - Live Action [6-11]
04:30 - Live Action [6-11]
05:00 - Live Action [6-11]
05:30 - Live Action [6-11]
06:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
06:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:00 - Live Action [6-14]
07:30 - Live Action [6-14]
08:00 - Live Action [6-14]
08:30 - Live Action [6-14]
09:00 - Cartoon [6-14]
09:30 - Cartoon [6-14]
10:00 - Cartoon [6-14]
10:30 - Cartoon [6-14]
11:00 - [adultswim]

Sunday

06:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
06:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
08:00 - Live Action [6-11]
08:30 - Live Action [6-11]
09:00 - Live Action [6-11]
09:30 - Live Action [6-11]
10:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
10:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
11:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
11:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
12:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
12:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
01:00 - Live Action [6-11]
01:30 - Live Action [6-11]
02:00 - Live Action [6-11]
02:30 - Live Action [6-11]
03:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
03:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
04:00 - Live Action [6-11]
04:30 - Live Action [6-11]
05:00 - Live Action [6-11]
05:30 - Live Action [6-11]
06:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
06:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:00 - Cartoon [6-11]
07:30 - Cartoon [6-11]
08:00 - Live Action [6-11]
08:30 - Live Action [6-11]
09:00 - Live Action [6-14]
09:30 - Cartoon [6-14]
10:00 - [adultswim]

Examples of what I mean using currently available content

Cartoon [2-5] = Baby Looney Tunes, Krypto, etc.
Cartoon [2-11] = Tom and Jerry and just about any cartoon really
Cartoon [6-11] = Foster's, Chowder, Camp Lazlo, Ben 10, etc.
Cartoon [6-14] = Courage, Billy and Mandy, Naruto, One Piece, etc.
Live Action [2-5] = Think Nick Jr. animation/live aciton hybrids
Live Action [6-11] = Y7 live action like Out of Jimmy's Head and the iCarly rip-off pilot in the works, etc.
Live Action [6-14] = PG+ live action like Ben 10: RAT, Goosebumps, super hero movies, possibly Kamen Rider, etc.

You may have noticed I didn't bother mentioning the 9-14 nor 12-17 demographics... Well I think you know why I didn't mention them.

[Silverstar]

I still say that if CN really must have live-action (which hopefully will be predominantly superhero/action/fantasy shows as opposed to 'tweenybopper' sitcoms), then they should create a separate block just for them, and air the live-action shows on that block exclusively. That way, the CN suits would be able to satisfy their live-action Jones and gain these magical ratings numbers that they imagine they can only get by airing live-action shows, while at the same time, the network wouldn't have to lose perspective and it wouldn't look like they've entirely sold their souls.

Anyways, that's what I'd do.

[GaryPotter]

I still say that if CN really must have live-action (which hopefully will be predominantly superhero/action/fantasy shows as opposed to 'tweenybopper' sitcoms), then they should create a separate block just for them, and air the live-action shows on that block exclusively.

Anyways, that's what I'd do.

That would be the sensible thing to do. Unfortunately, CN doesn't seem all that sensible to me.

[Blackstar]

CN is in a no-win situation, for both itself and for it's viewers. The execs don't want to give the channel a new name because "Cartoon Network" has become an international institution and the CN logo is instantly recognizable. However, CN can't keep bringing in more non-animated programming and continue to call itself CARTOON Network. They look like a bunch of hypocrites who want to eat their cake and have it too. Their only real options are to either cut down on the live action or change the 'C' in the channel's name to something else. Like how TNN went from being The Nashville Network to The National Network (and then was rechristened Spike TV a little over a year later).

[Silverstar]

CN is in a no-win situation, for both itself and for it's viewers. The execs don't want to give the channel a new name because "Cartoon Network" has become an international institution and the CN logo is instantly recognizable. However, CN can't keep bringing in more non-animated programming and continue to call itself CARTOON Network. They look like a bunch of hypocrites who want to eat their cake and have it too. Their only real options are to either cut down on the live action or change the 'C' in the channel's name to something else. Like how TNN went from being The Nashville Network to The National Network (and then was rechristened Spike TV a little over a year later).

Another solution would be the one I suggested: relegating the live-action projects to a single block, like a Toonami or a Fried Dynamite, but with nothing but live-action shows (or the occasional live-action movie). Just as long as they kept the programming on said block exclusive to the block. I agree that the live-action stuff can't-and shouldn't-take over the channel if they want to keep the name "Cartoon Network".

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Yeah the block idea is very plausible and I actually did have a 2 hour "block" of live action 4-6PM on weekday afternoons. Yes the old action adventure time which is now comedy time becomes live action time. But they wouldn't stop there... not dang likely.

They'll want live action in prime time where it can benefit their ratings the most. Hence why I also have 2 hours of live action on Saturday night (like they have now), a bunch on Sunday night (encores from Friday and movies), a bunch on Friday night (part of Fried Dynamite). And live action movies are more likely for prime time for at least first runs but they have been known to play a random live action movie mid-day without a prime time showing first.

I know a guy who says they should continue to go by Cartoon Network because throwing out the name would damage the brand. I would have to say it's more likely running the name through the ground truly damages the brand or at least makes it less likely for people to know what to expect from the brand. People do like familiarity and consistancey in their TV and when a network called Cartoon Network is showing more and more live action content they'd probably find it at least a little bit odd (but not enough to change the channel, and that's what CN is counting on).

[George3000]

I'm just wating for CN to finally air Space Jam and LT: Back in Action. Then I'll be happy either way.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Well... ironically those both ended up on Disney run channels.

[Bat Artist]

It's been the home for cartoons for many years now. I think it should stay that way.

[sayde]

To be quite honest, I didn't know what to expect when I first visited these forums to day. I had checked into this place to see if there was even a slight chance that someone out there would be just as irritated w/ the increase in live action shows as I am. Lo-and-behold, I find an abundance of people who feel just as irritated as I do and a lot of discussions related to it. As a fan of CN who's been religiously watching the network ever since G-Force was aired, I registered to be a member of these forums w/ the sole intention of ranting about just how angry I really am. But as I read through practically this entire thread, I see there's nothing I can say that hasn't already been stated.

But I have to be honest though. I don't like ANY of the live action shows to have ever been shown on CN, this includes those shown on Adult swim.

So in the end, all I have left to say is that it's a tremendous relief to see that I'm far from being the only one who's angry by all this. Hopefully this spike in live-action television programming will turn out to be nothing more than another phase the network is going through.

btw, can someone shed some light as to what purpose the bumpers serve? I've always wondered that for years now. Does it really attract more viewers? Does it fill up time? Or what? I mean wouldn't it be more profitable to just air more commercials instead as suppose to investing money in these bumpers? I was able to tolerate them ok back when Toonami's (animated) bumpers occasionally did a great job at hyping me up to watch the upcoming anime. But as it stands currently, I find myself preferring commercials over garbage like Friday's & Fried Dynamite any day for so many reasons. Also, is it just me, or does anyone else feel they've gotten dumber and dumber after everytime they hear "Fall is just something that grown-ups invented"?

I've got a lot of questions pertaining to CN and it's many airings/cancellations, and this looks like a solid forum to get those questions answered. I hope to have some informative conversations in the future. Also, I wanted to extend my thanks to the mods for allowing discussion like this to take place. I know you guys find this kind of talk annoying, and if you all really wanted to, I'm sure you could become a bunch of tyrants and dictators by completely forbidding any and all conversation regarding the matter. So for not doing that, I thank you very much.

[danreyes1]

btw, can someone shed some light as to what purpose the bumpers serve? I've always wondered that for years now. Does it really attract more viewers? Does it fill up time? Or what? I mean wouldn't it be more profitable to just air more commercials instead as suppose to investing money in these bumpers? I was able to tolerate them ok back when Toonami's (animated) bumpers occasionally did a great job at hyping me up to watch the upcoming anime. But as it stands currently, I find myself preferring commercials over garbage like Friday's & Fried Dynamite any day for so many reasons. Also, is it just me, or does anyone else feel they've gotten dumber and dumber after everytime they hear "Fall is just something that grown-ups invented"?

Here's an entire thread on the fall bumpers. (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=198781)Enjoy.

[sayde]

Here's an entire thread on the fall bumpers. (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=198781)Enjoy.

heh. Thanks a lot for the heads up.

[warner]

I have never seen CN this low in my life of watching it. Its really sad to see this happen but I guess all they want is fast ratings, money and cheap effort.

The Cartoon Network had many changes 'n i hate it, coz i don't accept those revolution new rules, if it happen i'll be missing all those old times since my childhood until today:sweat: :sweat: :sweat:

[hobbyfan]

The suits at CN don't care what we think they need to do. They're motivated by the bottom line, and if that means putting live-action programming on CN, where it doesn't really belong, then so be it. It's been this way for 2 years now, and that's the way it's going to be. However, there are ways to fix this problem......

1. Movies: They should only air l-a films that are tied to animated programming. They struck while the iron was hot with Ben 10: Race Against Time, and apparently the ratings justified their risk, and gives them ammo to sustain their present programming strategem.

Meanwhile, a roster of l-a movies that would be acceptable on CN is like this:

Osmosis Jones (has already aired)
Scooby-Doo (has already aired)
Phantom Tollbooth
Batman and related films
Space Jam (if they can get it)
Who Framed Roger Rabbit? (has already aired on CN)
Looney Tunes: Back in Action (if they can get it)

What didn't/doesn't belong?:

Small Soldiers (animatronic action figures are not the same as normal animated characters and are considered special effects, IMPO)
Honey, I Shrunk the Kids
School of Rock

Balto has a live-action opening, but is otherwise animated.

[Movie06]

Guys, can we lock this thread out of respect for Ms. Davidson please?

[Rolling Cloud]

Guys, can we lock this thread out of respect for Ms. Davidson please?

You would have to PM a mod about that. Just posting it out of the blue won't help much in the long run. :sweat:

[Red]

Will do. If more controversy happens with this issue down the line, another thread will be made. But now is not the time.