Has Funimation decided where to start One Piece?

[Hades]

A few months ago Funimation was taking feedback on where fans wanted them to start the UNCUT DVDs of One Piece at, the first episode or ep 144. Have they announced yet which one got the most votes?

[ChibiGoku]

This really should have been posted here (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=183063&page=100). But anyways, FUNimation can't release the first 143 episodes of One Piece until ViZ Media's DVD rights to those episodes run out. So it's most likely, we're going to get Episode 144+ first on DVD.

[Hades]

This really should have been posted here (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=183063&page=100). But anyways, FUNimation can't release the first 143 episodes of One Piece until ViZ Media's DVD rights to those episodes run out. So it's most likely, we're going to get Episode 144+ first on DVD.

WTF? When did Viz suddenly own the first 143 (it isn't even 143, more like 105) episodes?

[zoid9000]

WTF? When did Viz suddenly own the first 143 (it isn't even 143, more like 105) episodes?

Since they've been releasing the 4kids episodes on DVD.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Strange as it may seem... Viz got the rights from Toei Animation to release One Piece on DVD but they only got the 4kids version. This presents FUNimation from releasing pre-144 for now but some day they'll be able to. So the first set is suppose to come early next year and it will be 144+ episodes in batches of 13. We'll probably see episode 1 on DVD by around Fall of 2008 at this rate.

[Hades]

Strange as it may seem... Viz got the rights from Toei Animation to release One Piece on DVD but they only got the 4kids version. This presents FUNimation from releasing pre-144 for now but some day they'll be able to. So the first set is suppose to come early next year and it will be 144+ episodes in batches of 13. We'll probably see episode 1 on DVD by around Fall of 2008 at this rate.

I still think 13 episodes is not enough for a show that is around 320 episodes with no end in sight for at least another 200 episodes. Hopefully they will justify that and give us a set every other month.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

I still think 13 episodes is not enough for a show that is around 320 episodes with no end in sight for at least another 200 episodes. Hopefully they will justify that and give us a set every other month.

You're kidding, right?

It takes at least a week to complete one episode on most shows...

[Karl Olson]

yeah, if we get quarterly boxsets, we're ahead of the curve.

[Hanshotfirst113]

I still think 13 episodes is not enough for a show that is around 320 episodes with no end in sight for at least another 200 episodes. Hopefully they will justify that and give us a set every other month.

As long as were're getting the uncut episodes with the original audio tracks and proper subs in quality releases rather than what 4K!ds did, I'd qualify it as a good thing regardless.

[Novapocalypse]

If this new dub is successful enough,we may even get a $39.99 tag.:D

[Hades]

I forgot to ask this, but since Viz owns 1-144, why did Funimation even bother to ask us for our opinion? Talk about a big waste of time. I could have spent that 10 minutes typing an email to them playing a video game instead.

[ChibiGoku]

I forgot to ask this, but since Viz owns 1-144, why did Funimation even bother to ask us for our opinion? Talk about a big waste of time. I could have spent that 10 minutes typing an email to them playing a video game instead.

I think what happened, was FUNimation didn't know at the time about the ViZ Media DVD rights.

[AstroNerdBoy]

FUNimation is learning all sorts of things when it comes to "license rescues." They learned that they couldn't do anything much beyond releasing what CPM had done for Slayers after thinking they could re-release it with major improvements. They learned again with One Piece. Notice how for Love Hina, FUNimation has been silent on how the release will be. :sweat:

[Jacob T. Paschal]

FUNimation is learning all sorts of things when it comes to "license rescues." They learned that they couldn't do anything much beyond releasing what CPM had done for Slayers after thinking they could re-release it with major improvements. They learned again with One Piece. Notice how for Love Hina, FUNimation has been silent on how the release will be. :sweat:

So wait, FUNi can't go back and just retranslate and rerecord the lines with their actors or recalling the previous actors?

[Rolling Cloud]

So wait, FUNi can't go back and just retranslate and rerecord the lines with their actors or recalling the previous actors?

If you mean episodes #1-143, then No! FUNI can't do anything with those episodes because of VIZ.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

If you mean episodes #1-143, then No! FUNI can't do anything with those episodes because of VIZ.

I was speaking of Slayers, actually. :D

[Space Cadet]

I was speaking of Slayers, actually. :D

Well, the answer to that is no. They were going try and redub some lines and bring Crispin Freeman back to record a character for the first few episodes, but the materials to record it are long gone.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Well, the answer to that is no. They were going try and redub some lines and bring Crispin Freeman back to record a character for the first few episodes, but the materials to record it are long gone.

What materials would they need? If it was a previous actors that had recorded the lines why not just listen to those to get what the dialogue then rerecord that way or just retranslate the JPN scripts and readapt the whole English ADR script and have everyone rerecord.

[Space Cadet]

What materials would they need? If it was a previous actors that had recorded the lines why not just listen to those to get what the dialogue then rerecord that way or just retranslate the JPN scripts and readapt the whole English ADR script and have everyone rerecord.

They aren't going to spend money to do that. They picked up the license to re-release, not re-dub. There wasn't much wrong with the previous release, aside from some minor translation issues on the subtitle track and a character having a different VA's early on in the dub.

[bigddan11]

If you mean episodes #1-143, then No! FUNI can't do anything with those episodes because of VIZ.
Actually Cloud, you're the one that's wrong. FUNi can go and re-dub the first 143 episodes, but they will be unable to release them until Viz Media's rights expire. For that reason, they've jumped straight ahead with doing the new dub instead of trying to release the DVD's from episode 1. I suspect we'll see them do like they did with DBZ as they approached the end of the Cell Games and jumped into Great Saiyaman instead of finishing the Cell Games release first.

[Rolling Cloud]

FUNi can go and re-dub the first 143 episodes, but they will be unable to release them until Viz Media's rights expire. For that reason, they've jumped straight ahead with doing the new dub instead of trying to release the DVD's from episode 1. I suspect we'll see them do like they did with DBZ as they approached the end of the Cell Games and jumped into Great Saiyaman instead of finishing the Cell Games release first.

Ok, I see where I was wrong. Man, Viz must want me mad at them or something. :shrug:

Hurry & expire, rights to the 1st 143.

[AstroNerdBoy]

What materials would they need? If it was a previous actors that had recorded the lines why not just listen to those to get what the dialogue then rerecord that way or just retranslate the JPN scripts and readapt the whole English ADR script and have everyone rerecord.

I don't know anything official, so all I have are rumors. Take that for what its worth (which may not be much).

One thing I've heard is that the audio tracks from Japan containing the music and special effects but no Japanese seiyuu don't exist. If that's true, then how would FUNimation be able to re-dub the title? There's no way to just remove the Japanese seiyuu speaking from the Japanese audio track so that English speakers could then say their own lines.

As for One Piece, that isn't the issue. They can re-dub the older episodes because there are no issues with re-translating and re-dubbing the title from an original Japanese source perspective. However, with Viz having distribution rights to the 4Kids stuff, FUNimation would be then forced to put most (if not all) of their energy into the episodes they can distribute and worry about the earlier episodes at a later time (at their leisure).

[Hades]

I think ti is messed up either way. I mean, Viz is doing NOTHING but promoting, advertising, promoting some more, every little thing they can out of Naruto (even to the point they are filling half of Shonen Jump with it and having CN air a full weekend on nothing but garbage), but they won't just give up the rights to the first 143 episodes? LAME!!! Let Funimation have their own new friggin show.

[Dark Fact]

Hades, you're raising the same stink I was back when I found out that FUNimation couldn't release the first 143 episodes uncut. :rolleyes:

Here, have some cookies to quell your foulness. :)
http://www.vitalita.com/foodpicts/choc-chip-hazeln-cookies.jpg

I don't like it anymore than anyone else and still think the whole thing is BS considering that Viz is allowed to continue to distribute a dub for a company who doesn't even own the rights to said show anymore. But hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles. :shrug:

[livingfruitvirus]

I don't like it anymore than anyone else and still think the whole thing is BS considering that Viz is allowed to continue to distribute a dub for a company who doesn't even own the rights to said show anymore.

You mean like DBZ and Saban/Geneon? Or Dragon Ball and KidMark, which they still hold after 15 years?

[Hades]

You mean like DBZ and Saban/Geneon? Or Dragon Ball and KidMark, which they still hold after 15 years?

Huh? Funimation has the rights back for those shows.

[veemonjosh]

Huh? Funimation has the rights back for those shows.

Kidmark (now a part of Lions Gate) still owns the DVD rights to the first 13 episodes of Dragon Ball.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

I don't know anything official, so all I have are rumors. Take that for what its worth (which may not be much).

One thing I've heard is that the audio tracks from Japan containing the music and special effects but no Japanese seiyuu don't exist. If that's true, then how would FUNimation be able to re-dub the title? There's no way to just remove the Japanese seiyuu speaking from the Japanese audio track so that English speakers could then say their own lines.

As for One Piece, that isn't the issue. They can re-dub the older episodes because there are no issues with re-translating and re-dubbing the title from an original Japanese source perspective. However, with Viz having distribution rights to the 4Kids stuff, FUNimation would be then forced to put most (if not all) of their energy into the episodes they can distribute and worry about the earlier episodes at a later time (at their leisure).

Hmm...well, that sucks.

And vI already know about the OP situation...

[Dark Fact]

You mean like DBZ and Saban/Geneon? Or Dragon Ball and KidMark, which they still hold after 15 years?
Unlike 4Kids, FUNimation didn't have the Dragon Ball license pulled from them and they allowed other said companies to hold the sub-license.

Speaking of KidMark, I believe FUNimation will get those 13 episodes back when they start re-releasing their entire Dragon Ball franchise in widescreen.

[bigddan11]

Unlike 4Kids, FUNimation didn't have the Dragon Ball license pulled from them and they allowed other said companies to hold the sub-license.

Speaking of KidMark, I believe FUNimation will get those 13 episodes back when they start re-releasing their entire Dragon Ball franchise in widescreen.
KidMark has the rights to the first 13 episodes period. FUNimation was unable to release the Pilaf saga, even uncut, because they had sold those rights to KidMark for an unlimited amount of time. It doesn't matter if they release a new version. If they can't get KidMark to sale those rights back, they can never release the 13 episodes of the FUNi dub, whether widescreen or regular.

[AstroNerdBoy]

KidMark has the rights to the first 13 episodes period. FUNimation was unable to release the Pilaf saga, even uncut, because they had sold those rights to KidMark for an unlimited amount of time. It doesn't matter if they release a new version. If they can't get KidMark to sale those rights back, they can never release the 13 episodes of the FUNi dub, whether widescreen or regular.

Assuming that's correct, the reason is clear -- they aren't going to give up on their little corner of Dragonball and hope that ignorant people will buy their stuff, not realizing that it isn't FUNimation's release. Viz is doing much the same thing in holding onto their One Piece rights and hoping to milk the success FUNimation is expected to have with their version of the franchise, hoping to catch sales from the unaware.

[Space Cadet]

Speaking of KidMark, I believe FUNimation will get those 13 episodes back when they start re-releasing their entire Dragon Ball franchise in widescreen.

KidMark owns the distribution rights to the first 13 episodes of DB forever.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

In October Viz will release its eleventh edited volume of its DVD run, the final episode on that volume being fifty-two.

I.E. twelve months left until Viz Media finishes releasing all of edited One Piece.

[straw_hat]

The Funi dub of the first 13 episodes were released in Australia by a company called Madman so it's not like they aren't available at all. They just can't release it themselves over here in the States.

[Dark Fact]

Assuming that's correct, the reason is clear -- they aren't going to give up on their little corner of Dragonball and hope that ignorant people will buy their stuff, not realizing that it isn't FUNimation's release. Viz is doing much the same thing in holding onto their One Piece rights and hoping to milk the success FUNimation is expected to have with their version of the franchise, hoping to catch sales from the unaware.
Since when has KidMark re-released Dragonball on DVD? It seemed like after the previous DVD release bundled with the first movie, they hadn't done jack squat with it. It's obvious to see that they're now just sitting on the license. They're not going to achieve anything by just sitting on it.

KidMark owns the distribution rights to the first 13 episodes of DB forever.
Unless the CEO and the Trimark board drank a potion of immortality and have gained total overthrow immunity, I doubt that Trimark will have the rights forever. You also need to take into account changes in staff and business-to-business diplomacy as a result. Just because the current staff is unwilling to negotiate doesn't mean the future staff also won't. Besides, Lance has said that FUNimation is trying to get those rights back. They're not giving up on the series.

[Space Cadet]

Unless the CEO and the Trimark board drank a potion of immortality and have gained total overthrow immunity, I doubt that Trimark will have the rights forever. You also need to take into account changes in staff and business-to-business diplomacy as a result. Just because the current staff is unwilling to negotiate doesn't mean the future staff also won't. Besides, Lance has said that FUNimation is trying to get those rights back. They're not giving up on the series.

I never said they haven't given up on trying to get those rights. It's just that Trimark is just sitting on the license for as long as they want. True, a new regime change can decide to negotiate with FUNi. But as of right now, they're keeping their rights to it.

[MeggieMay]

It's called perpetual rights and it's a sign of a extremely poor contract made by the original rights holder. To break the contract the original rights holder has to take it to court and attempt to get it nullified. This entails paying a lot of money on lawyers and after a long court fight the company might still not get the rights back. So that's probably why Funimation hasn't been able to get the rights (Toei doesn't want to spend the money and time).

BTW, this isn't a unheard of problem. The BBC is notorious in SF Media fandom for doing the exact same thing with the rights to Blake's Seven in R1. They gave the video rights to some small company back in the days of VHS but the contract reads it is not only in perpetuity but that it is covers all forms of media, past, present, and, future. BBC Worldwide did take them to court to get the contract annulled but that was ten or eleven years ago now and it is still in the court system the last I heard. Also, the company is technically out of business but it doesn't matter. The contract is valid until they give the rights back or the courts nullify it (if the original people die, their estates get it). [You may be wondering why anyone would hold on to rights like this and it's simple - usually they expect the original rights holders to pay them an exorbitant amount of money before they hand them back over. I also think there are times company/license holders also hold on to stuff out of spite and I'm sure there are cases where the companies/license holders have dreams of returning to the market with the titles they have, no matter how incredibly unlikely it might really be :shrug: ]

So this is the reason Blake's Seven has never been released in R1 and may never again see the light of day due to this screw up :mad:

[Dark Fact]

BTW, this isn't a unheard of problem. The BBC is notorious in SF Media fandom for doing the exact same thing with the rights to Blake's Seven in R1. They gave the video rights to some small company back in the days of VHS but the contract reads it is not only in perpetuity but that it is covers all forms of media, past, present, and, future. BBC Worldwide did take them to court to get the contract annulled but that was ten or eleven years ago now and it is still in the court system the last I heard. Also, the company is technically out of business but it doesn't matter. The contract is valid until they give the rights back or the courts nullify it (if the original people die, their estates get it). [You may be wondering why anyone would hold on to rights like this and it's simple - usually they expect the original rights holders to pay them an exorbitant amount of money before they hand them back over. I also think there are times company/license holders also hold on to stuff out of spite and I'm sure there are cases where the companies/license holders have dreams of returning to the market with the titles they have, no matter how incredibly unlikely it might really be ]
This is the same issue with Mazinger Z. After Bunker Jenkin's company went under, the rights were handed off to someone else. To this day, nobody can legally license Mazinger uncut because of the perpetual rights agreement. ADV tried to get the rights at one point but efforts fell flat.

It's crap like this is the reason why I think perpetual rights shouldn't exist. If one company screws up the property, true fans of that property are the ones getting burned in the end.

[RomanMack]

Yup, but dems the breaks...

[Dark Fact]

There's always fansubs but that's a different can of worms altogether.

[Master Moron]

So, why was Toei able to pull the rights for One Piece away from 4K!ds, but they can't pull the rights for Dragonball away from Kidmark? Was it just a matter of different contract language?

[Dark Fact]

I'm not exactly sure how perpetual agreements work. However, I think if the licensor grants the licensee the license to a certain show and the licensee sub-licenses the show to another company for distribution with full written backing from the licensor, then the sub-licensee can own the property for as long as the contract states. Meaning, if Toei OKed the sub-licensing deal with Kidmark from the get go, then not even Toei themselves have the right to pull the license unless they want to go to court for breach of contract.

The Mazinger license may have suffered a similar fate. Bunker Jenkins must've sweet talked Toei into giving him the license pepetually with him promising the company big merchandising and ratings success. Needless to say, Jenkins' company went under and now one of the investors or other property estate holders can hold the license without Toei interfering.

In other words, perpetual contracts suck!

[Master Moron]

So, if Funimation ever loses the license to Dragonball, will Kidmark have any rights regarding Dragonball?

[Dark Fact]

Well, first off, FUNimation won't give up Dragonball as long as they live. Secondly, let's say that FUNimation for some reason did decide to give up Dragonball. Episodes 14 and up, the Z, and the GT series will all revert back to Toei. However, Kidmark could still hold the rights to the first 13 episodes if Toei approved of their distribution. So, Kidmark could still be eligible to release the dub under the original approval by Toei.

This could very well be the same reason why Viz still has distro rights to the One Piece DVDs if Toei allowed Viz to hold sub-license rights to the show.

But that's my hypothesis. If there is anyone else here who has better knowledge in legal contractual proceedings, feel free to spill the beans.

[bigddan11]

There's always fansubs but that's a different can of worms altogether.
Technically all fan Subs are subject to copy right violations as the fans don't have the writes to do the series.

[firecrouch]

Well VIZ reps have stated that they were distributing "One Piece" on behalf of Toei Animation in the first place, so in that sense I can see why Toei Animation isn't in any rush to break that contract. In contrast, breaking the original agreement with 4Kids was a necessity if they wanted the series to move forward. All the parties involved know there's a big demand to see those first episodes redone, so I wouldn't worry. According to what I heard from the "One Piece" Otakon panel, VIZ's DVD rights should expire soon, though what exactly that means is anyone's guess.

Also, does anyone even know if FUNimation even has the production rights to the first 143 episodes? Unless I hear otherwise, I'll be optimistic and say they do. As far as I know, the T.V. distribution rights belong to either Toei Animation, Inc., FUNimation, or both, so who knows, maybe we could see a FUNi redubbing of those first seasons on Cartoon Network before they appear on DVD. And the Internet rights belong to Shueisha, so what we're seeing on Toonami Jetstream is just them going with whatever dub they can use, which at the moment is the 4Kids dub. Then there's whatever's happening in other regions like England and Australia, which at this time is unknown to the public.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Well VIZ reps have stated that they were distributing "One Piece" on behalf of Toei Animation in the first place, so in that sense I can see why Toei Animation isn't in any rush to break that contract. In contrast, breaking the original agreement with 4Kids was a necessity if they wanted the series to move forward. All the parties involved know there's a big demand to see those first episodes redone, so I wouldn't worry. According to what I heard from the "One Piece" Otakon panel, VIZ's DVD rights should expire soon, though what exactly that means is anyone's guess.

Also, does anyone even know if FUNimation even has the production rights to the first 143 episodes? Unless I hear otherwise, I'll be optimistic and say they do. As far as I know, the T.V. distribution rights belong to either Toei Animation, Inc., FUNimation, or both, so who knows, maybe we could see a FUNi redubbing of those first seasons on Cartoon Network before they appear on DVD. And the Internet rights belong to Shueisha, so what we're seeing on Toonami Jetstream is just them going with whatever dub they can use, which at the moment is the 4Kids dub. Then there's whatever's happening in other regions like England and Australia, which at this time is unknown to the public.

They Should, FUNi said they had the rights to the whole series, outside of the DVD rights for the first 143 episodes.

[firecrouch]

They Should, FUNi said they had the rights to the whole series, outside of the DVD rights for the first 143 episodes.

Don't forget the Internet rights, those belong to Shueisha.

Also, FUNimation has said that before, they have a whole series, but then they go around and say they just ordered a series by certain seasons. I dunno, they weren't too sepcific on what exactly they have, the word from FUNimation seems to suggest they have free reign.