How did Jackie Gleason feel about Hanna-Barbera?

[zoombie]

People have assumed for a long time that the Flintstones was a rip off of the Honeymooners, and they are probably right (at least the pre Pebbles and Bam Bam episodes), but the only person that has a right to cry ripoff is the creator of the Honeymooners Jackie Gleason. And Yogi Bear was a carbon copy of Honeymooners character Ed Norton, that might be more of Art Carney issue than a Gleason issue, but it was on his show.

Anyone know how Mr. Gleason really felt about Hanna-Barbara? To him was it the ultimite complement or the ultimite rip off?

If this happened in todays law suit happy world, the Flintstones would never get on the air, because even if Gleason didn't mind, some lawyer would convince him to sue.

But if I am Mr. Gleason, and I am able to know what is going on from the grave, the people I would be most upset with is Cedric The Entertainer and the makers of the Honeymooners feature movie. That was a dumb idea, and surpasses the Flintstones movies has bad adaptions. At least Hanna-Brabara Honeymooner ripoffs were funny and entertaining.

[Jon Cooke]

I recall reading that Gleason was considering suing Hanna-Barbera over The Flintstones, but his publicist talked him out of it. IIRC, Gleason was told something to effect of "Do you really want to be known as the guy who took Fred Flintstone off television?"

EDIT - the exact quote is here: http://www.topthat.net/webrock/faq/faq14.htm

[zoombie]

A nice gesture would have been to let Art Carney voice Yogi Bear, I thought Yogi Bear more reasmbles the individual Ed Norton charactar than the Flintstones reasmbles the Honeymooners as a whole. It is hard to explain, you know what I mean?

Before the Flintstones, maybe before Yogi Bear, in the 50's there was a couple of Looney Toon shorts in which the Honeymooner characters were protrayed as mice, and they used the actual characters names, I am pretty sure Gleason approved of that.

[Jon Cooke]

Before the Flintstones, maybe before Yogi Bear, in the 50's there was a couple of Looney Toon shorts in which the Honeymooner characters were protrayed as mice, and they used the actual characters names, I am pretty sure Gleason approved of that.

The story goes, as told by June Foray and others, that Gleason was originally going to block the release of "The Honeymousers" . Director Robert McKimson personally sent Gleason a print of the cartoon. Gleason enjoyed the cartoon so much he dropped his objections.

[zoombie]

Well it is not like the Flintstones was a complete Honeymooners clone, while there are stuff that are the same:

Fred and Barney's relationship mirrors Ralph and Ed's relationship

When Fred and Barney both have the same arguement with their wives, you only saw Fred and Wilma's arguement, and rarely saw Barney and Betty's arguement, just like you only saw Ralph and Alice arguement, you rarely if ever saw a Ed and Trixie arguement.

Fred and Ralph's antigonistic relationship with their mother in laws.

But there are differences besides the obvious of Pebbles and Bam Bam's presence.

Fred and Wilma never had these loud arguements like Ralph and Alice did.

Wilma never made fat jokes towards Fred, while Alice made fat jokes about Ralph many times when they get into arguements. The "I got it here" joke from "TV Or Not TV" is classic diologue that I remember to this day. It is my favorite Honeymooners episode, had so much classic funny moments. (the coin flip, Captin Video get up, etc.)

The big difference is Wilma and Alice are completely different characters. They were both the supportive loving wife, but Alice had more of a temper and nothing side of her character, that she could go toe to toe with Raph in arguements.

I never considered Barney an Ed Norton clone, because of Yogi Bear.

One thing it has in common for me personally, the first episodes are my favorites of each series. "TV Or Not TV" and "The Flintstones Flyer" are my favorite episodes of each respected series.

Edit: You know if the Hanna Barbara company had enough of a sense of humor, and maybe if they cleared any rights they had to clear, an episode of Harvey Birdman in which an animated Ralph Kramdem sued Fred Flintstones for ripping him off. That would be hillarous, and have an animated Ed Norton sue Yogi Bear.

A way for Hanna Barbara to make fun of itself a little bit.

[jcorey3]

Imagine if Phil Silvers sued H-B for ripping him off. How many times did he "cameo" on a series besides having Top Cat be a rip off his Sgt. Bilko role?

[zoombie]

Imagine if Phil Silvers sued H-B for ripping him off. How many times did he "cameo" on a series besides having Top Cat be a rip off his Sgt. Bilko role?

In his debut episode, Dino talked and the way he talked was very much like Phil Silvers.

And the events leading up to the birth of Pebbles Flintstones are almost exactly the same as what happened when little Ricky was born on I Love Lucy.

Another idea I had on how Gleason and Hanna Barbara could show a good jesture of peace, remember in the 70's there was the Scooby Doo Mystery Movie show (I think that was the name) in which celebirties and other iconic fictional characters guest starred.

What if Jackie Gleason agreed to guest star either as himself, or as Ralph Kramdem and have Art Carney play an animated version of Ed Norton. Don't know why they would be involved in solving mystery (than I again, it didn't make sense for a lot of the guest stars to help Scooby solve mystery), but I could imagine Ralph seeing a so called ghost or monster and saying his famous "Am ana am ana" line, and / or for him to say about the phony ghost or monster "That is the second uglist crature I have seen besides my mother in law." Or show Shaggy and Scooby a picture of his mother in law (we wouldn't see it), and they be freaked out like they saw a monster.

I thought those mother in law jokes were classics, no offense to the mother in laws of the world.

Same thing with Phil Silver, either have Phil Silver as himself or the Sgt. Bilko character help solve a groovy mystery.

[lordsmurf]

ultimite rip off?....some lawyer would convince him to sue.
Not going to happen. There is much leeway allowed for parody.