What makes MOTP so great? [Archive]

The Game

02-10-2002, 06:57 PM

It's just so spectacular on so many levels.

First of all, when you compare it to the live action Batman films, its basically a comparison of B:TAS to the movies. B:TAS was just the way Batman was meant to be seen on the screen. The design, character representation, and voice talents are just pitch perfect.

On the other hand, MOTP is just an amazing film. The animation is simply top notch, the voice acting is great, and the story makes it stand out.

It's sad to say that an animated feature can display true human emotions better than a live action one. The story is one you care about, its very interesting and often unpredictable. Its a great version of the conflict between Batman and Bruce Wayne, a special treat for fans of B:TAS who never got that defining character episode for the Dark Knight himself.

It's great for so many reasons, I think, the greatest Bat-film of all time! :)

Cassandra

02-10-2002, 07:46 PM

I remember seeing it in the movie theater as a kid.It was just so intense, all the charecters were really well written.They acted believeably, and it completely drew me in. I liked it so well because when I watched it, I forgot that it was a cartoon.They added little things here and there that just showed the quality of the writing. -Bruce's exclamation after his first "costumed" victory? ("YESS!!")

Awesome stuff.

Cosmocat

02-10-2002, 08:38 PM

It's great because it's a character-driven movie. It's great because it's very mature and doesn't condescend to everyone. And it's great because of the emotional content. It's the only movie to really touch the soul of the Batman character.

Naraht

02-10-2002, 08:49 PM

Am I the only one who thought it was just..ok? Yeah, it was good...but it wasn't "All That"

Barb Gordon

02-10-2002, 09:23 PM

I can't answer that Nar, I cried at the end, so I obviously think it's better than okay! I really wished I had seen it in the theaters though. I can't recall when I fell in love with Batman, but I know it was whenever Robin finally joined Batman in the cartoon...what can I say, he was just so cute! But, I must not have been a Batfan at all *gasp*, or not too big of one yet, to have not scene MOTP in the theaters.....that, and I was only 10 and was probably too busy riding horses and talking nonstop about them. What is everyone's fav part(s) of the movie?

Barb^-^

The Game

02-10-2002, 09:51 PM

I had the honor of seeing it in the theatres when I was... Let's see, 1993... Six. I loved it then- at the time my only beef was that Robin was nowhere to be seen (I was a Robin nut as a kid) but looking back he would have taken the focus off of Bruce, so it's good he's not there.

Just ok? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but in this case you're wrong! ;) J/k.

I thought it was fabulous! MOTP baby! :D

Failure

02-10-2002, 09:57 PM

The scenes that stick out in my mind are:

1. The first time Bruce puts on his Batsuit, Alfred gives him the cowl, and when Bruce turns around, Alfred reacts with a gasp of shock/horror/fear. Chills.

2. The part where Bruce is starting to find happiness with Andrea and goes to his parent's grave with to plead for their forgiveness for not sticking with "the plan."

3. The whole ending scene was great. With Andrea disappearing with the Joker, Batman finding a way out of the park and once out, he looks back with disappointment. Alfred's speech about how he worries every night that one day Bruce might cross the line like Andrea did, and the final scene where Andrea's alone on the boat.

Why is the movie so good? Because I think this is what the definitive version of Batman would be. Dark, brooding, yet human. Showing his internal struggles with wanting to find happiness, but being unable too. No cookie cutting sweetness. No off the wall gadgets. Just Batman and his relations. Like many have said, it's a character-driven movie, which is why it's such a standout.

The Game

02-10-2002, 10:01 PM

1. The first time Bruce puts on his Batsuit, Alfred gives him the cowl, and when Bruce turns around, Alfred reacts with a gasp of shock/horror/fear. Chills.

Yeah, that was truly awesome. It was so powerful how they shifted from Andrea's note saying she couldn't marry him to him going forward with the plan, and putting on the batsuit for the first time. It was perfect- brilliantly done with the dark animation and great Alfred response. One of the greatest moments in all of animated Batman! :)

Cosmocat

02-10-2002, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by Barb Gordon
I can't answer that Nar, I cried at the end, so I obviously think it's better than okay! I really wished I had seen it in the theaters though. I can't recall when I fell in love with Batman, but I know it was whenever Robin finally joined Batman in the cartoon...what can I say, he was just so cute! But, I must not have been a Batfan at all *gasp*, or not too big of one yet, to have not scene MOTP in the theaters.....that, and I was only 10 and was probably too busy riding horses and talking nonstop about them. What is everyone's fav part(s) of the movie?

Barb^-^

I don't know if I have a favorite part, but, for some reason, the scene were Batman goes back to Andrea Beaumont and asks her about the picture of her father pops into my head. That scene was SO well written and well done overall.

Bats: Have you ever seen this?
Andrea: (glances nonchalantly) No.
Bats: But that's your father. He was the one element that tied these gangsters together. Where's your father now?
A: Haven't a clue. Why don't you try Madagascar?
Bats rushes forward, grabs her arm...
Bats: That's NOT what you told Reeves! You told him you were closer than ever to your father!
A: You had me bugged, is that it?
Bats: I can read lips...
A: Then read them now...GET OUT.
Bats starts off, then turns back and says:
Bats: You still following your Dad's orders?
A: The way I see it, the only one in this room controlled by his parents is you.
Stung, Batman leaves. Andrea then drops her drink and collapses onto her bed, sobbing.

Gosh, what a great scene!

The Game

02-10-2002, 10:37 PM

Bats: Have you ever seen this?
Andrea: (glances nonchalantly) No.
Bats: But that's your father. He was the one element that tied these gangsters together. Where's your father now?
A: Haven't a clue. Why don't you try Madagascar?
Bats rushes forward, grabs her arm...
Bats: That's NOT what you told Reeves! You told him you were closer than ever to your father!
A: You had me bugged, is that it?
Bats: I can read lips...
A: Then read them now...GET OUT.
Bats starts off, then turns back and says:
Bats: You still following your Dad's orders?
A: The way I see it, the only one in this room controlled by his parents is you.
Stung, Batman leaves. Andrea then drops her drink and collapses onto her bed, sobbing.

Yeah, another amazing scene. Someone calls Bats on being a momma's boy... Well not quite, but I doubt there are many people who can get away with dissing Bruce's parents. That was sooo good.

For some reason, I love the Joker's first scene. Valestra is making his way into the "Land of Tommorow" or whatever.

"If only there was some other way..." he murmurs. Suddenly the future song comes blaring in, only to be shot by the Joker's gattling gun.

"I hate that song," he growls.

God I love that scene. Not the best, but there's something I just love about the Joker- that scene was great. :)

Barb Gordon

02-10-2002, 11:44 PM

My absolute favorite scene is when Bruce goes to his parents grave in the rain and pleads with them about breaking his vow. The setting, Kevin Conroy's emotion and just everything that Bruce says to his parents, the way they make the grave stone look so overpowering and menacing, is just absolutely incredible. My second fav would have to be the end, with Alfred talking to Bruce, but more so, when someone glints in the shadows of the cave and Bruce goes to see what it is. When he's looking at the locket, and his eyes widened a little, not to mention the background music, it's all that scene needs to give it so much emotion. I have to go watch it again now and cry. :p

Barb^-^

Apache Chief

02-11-2002, 10:41 AM

Yes naraht, you're the only one.

There will never be a better Batman movie. All the emotion and action are just perfect.

I love the scene where Bruce proposes, and just then bats come flying up out of the cave. It's like he was just on the verge of happiness, and destiny says "Oh, no you don't!"

It's an important part of the Batman myth - he was all set to walk away from it and be normal, then he gets Andrea's note, puts on the tights, and the rest is history.

Best of all - no Robin.

Ed Liu

02-11-2002, 11:51 AM

Howdy all,

Well, I'm actually with naraht on this one. MotP was very, very good, but I don't think it quite hit the same high notes that really good eps of BTAS did.

That said, I thought it improved on the live-action Batman movies in just about every way possible. I really liked it, I just didn't LOVE it.

Stuff I really liked:

- The Bruce graveyard scene in the rain

- The "first time as Batman" scene. Alfred's reaction is priceless.

- That bit where the sleazebag politician is recovering from Joker venom, and he can't stop laughing. Creeeee-py.

- The scene in the graveyard where Bats is talking into his little tape recorder. One of the few scenes in any modern-era Bats animated show where Bats is shown to be a real detective, IMO.

- The closing scene with Andrea on the boat, and Batman responding to the Bat signal at the end.

- "Me Cosa Nostra es Su Cosa Nostra." Har.

- The opening credit sequence. I saw the movie in the theatres, and the CGI city in Dark Deco style, with the booming soundtrack in the background totally blew my mind.

Stuff I didn't like:

- I guessed who the Phantasm really was before even seeing the movie, based on clips and the plot synopses available from the studio.

- The Alfred speech at the end. I thought it got a bit too sappy.

- What happened to the Joker? Either he got away, making the Phantasm a joke, or he didn't, making the entire movie an Elseworlds story.

-- Ed/Ace

Toddman

02-11-2002, 12:32 PM

I think that the movie succeeded on other more subtle levels as well.

The setting of the Gotham World's Fair provided terrific symbolism. When Bruce and Andrea visit the Fair, we see that their future, while still uncertain, is bright and optimistic. By the end of the film the "World of the Future" is dark and decayed and overrun by the Joker, a reflection of Bruce's own life. Remember the words of the PA announcer at the Fair, "Welcome to the world of the future, where we will all spend the rest of our lives." Indeed.

There is also a great look at the duality of Bruce's character and Andrea's. They face similar demons, but choose different paths. Alfred sums up the obvious comparison between Batman and the Phantasm at the end of the film, but I love the fact that both times the characters become involved in each others lives, they are trying to pull one another into a more peaceful existance. And both times the peace and serinity that Bruce is tempted to embrace is destroyed by Andrea.

I only wish that the animation had been better throughout the movie. The film looked great in almost every frame, but there was much more fluid movement in the short segments animated by Spectrum, compaired to the bulk of the film that was animated by Dong Yang. The fact that the story, mood and voice acting was so superior though, makes those inconsistancies easy to overlook.

The fate of the Joker at the end of the movie is only a problem if one looks at his part in the later episodes of the TV series. As for the film in-and-of itself, his ambiguous demise is completely appropriate. With his world crumbling around him, Batman must watch as the Joker is dragged off by the Phantasm to meet a fate that Batman would certainly never take part in.

If anything about the end of the film bothers me, it is the fact that Batman's name is never cleared for the murders of the gangsters (and there doesn't appear to be any clear evidence left behind that would help him out).

Sorry if I was too long winded, but like almost everyone else, I loved the movie.

Toddman

Calico

02-11-2002, 12:48 PM

What I loved best about this movie was showing that there is someone named Bruce Wayne. I hear so much that there is only Batman, that Bruce Wayne died with his parents, but I disagree. This movie showed he was making a choice to be Batman (and almost gave it up, just for his love). As the years went by he eventually gave up more and more of himself to the 'mission' until he just stopped being Bruce altogether (evidenced in Batman Beyond for those of you who take it as canon).

Also, during the final climactic scene, Batman is forced (by his own set of moral directives) to save his greatest foe from his greatest love. This is classic, tragic conflict.

Matt-Man

02-11-2002, 01:40 PM

...it was in theaters?! I feel stupid now! I never knew that! I had it on video and didn't even know it was in the theaters! Ofcourse i had a very, very low attention span when I was 7. Well I am gonna go yell at my dad for not taking me... :mad: I'm new here by the way.

Naraht

02-11-2002, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Matt-Man
...it was in theaters?! I feel stupid now! I never knew that! I had it on video and didn't even know it was in the theaters! Ofcourse i had a very, very low attention span when I was 7. Well I am gonna go yell at my dad for not taking me... :mad: I'm new here by the way.

Welcome...we don't bite...well, I do occasionally, but I've had my shots...

Anyway, rread the rules, FAQ, all the 239487 posts I've made (cause I'm just that good....er quick to post) and you'll do alright..

Umm, also, leave the seat down cause it's betterer or something..

I'm naraht, and if you need anything..you can ask me, and I'll probably know, but other people around here will also know...and they know it more acurately..*sigh*

anyway, welcome.

Oh yeah, yes it was in the Theaters, but I missed it there too.

Tim Drake

02-11-2002, 01:51 PM

Its the best Batman movie. Period. Great acting, animation, music, and a spectacular plot. For a while I liked ROTJ better, but rewatching it, MOTP is better because it is a character driven movie. We get to see Batman and Bruce Wayne. I loved it.

Toddman

02-11-2002, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Matt-Man
...it was in theaters?! I feel stupid now! I never knew that! I had it on video and didn't even know it was in the theaters! Ofcourse i had a very, very low attention span when I was 7. Well I am gonna go yell at my dad for not taking me... :mad: I'm new here by the way.

Don't feel bad. It was released on Christmas day on a small number of screens, usually only played during the matinee showtimes and was only in the theatres for a few weeks. You're not alone. (I feel lucky that I was able to see it theatrically myself.) And welcome to the boards, Matt-Man!

Toddman

The Game

02-11-2002, 03:45 PM

Yeah, I consider myself lucky to have seen it in theatres. If I could go back and relive those 73 some-odd minutes I would. Sadly I was too young to appriciate how lucky I was. :(

Frank White

02-11-2002, 05:37 PM

I LOVE this movie. I remember watching it like 7 years ago when it first came out but I forget, but then it came on CN Cartoon Theatre and I remembered it again, oh the memories. My favorite part is when the phantasm goes to kill Valestra but the Joker buts a little camera there and says something to the effect of, " Whoops, you're not Batman after all are you?" and then he starts a bomb timer.

optimal321

02-11-2002, 06:37 PM

Well, this movie is just bloody perfect! I can think of no better representation of the Batman than what the animated team did for this movie. The acting, music, writing, and for the most part animation were wonderfully done. I has gobs of drama and characterization dripping from it. We see Batman not as a campy goofball, nor an overly dark killing machine, but as a human.

My favorite parts would have to be the donning of the mask for the first time, the finale, the flashbacks, and the other 70 odd minutes :D .

tom406

02-12-2002, 01:56 AM

As I recall, MOTP was to be a video release, when during production, WB decided to do a theatrical release to capitalize on the live action Batman buzz. I recall an article where Dini and Timm were upset that they had to work so quickly, and they couldn't bring all of the animation and storylines up to theatrical level (this helps explain the inconsistent animation aspects.) Great movie.

TimTwoFace

02-12-2002, 02:39 AM

I was 13 back in '93 and I wish that I saw it in theatres. Man, that was a great movie when I saw it for the first time on video in April '94. The animation was good - hey, it's not Disney, but SO WHAT, it was MOODY. That's what the movie had going for it above everything else: MOOD, CHARACTER, and PLOT TWISTS. It was part romance, part thriller, part comedy (very very small part), part suspense, part action...the villains weren't all costumed freaks, either. A handful of them were normal mobsters; the Joker's important role was kept to a minimum until the end, and that was a good thing. Too MUCH of him in the movie would have made it campy - though he was just a sick, twisted <FILL IN THE BLANK> in a clown suit in that film - he wasn't using his "gimmick" that often. (Good choice, again.) These people were actually people. Not cliches.

It was an adult movie in a "child's" medium; it was a ground-breaking film, and over time, hopefully more people will regard it as such, not just us die-hard Bat-fans. I even reviewed it for my school paper a few years later, and got some people hooked. :-)

Too bad that, even as wonderful as SUB-ZERO and ROTJ were, they weren't nearly as good as the original.

SUB-ZERO was emotionally-driven, but not nearly as grief-stricken and gut-wrenching as PHANTASM. Good movie, but not the same. (And Batman himself was hardly in it.)

ROTJ was awesome during the flashback sequence (on par with the sick, twisted stuff that I love PHANTASM for), and even though the "BEYOND" sections of the film were great entertainment, they were mostly action diced with some mediocre characterization. It was a little TOO sci-fi to be as moody as MOTP. And it felt too "supervillainistic".

Hopefully future animated Bat-movies will revert back to the style used in MASK OF THE PHANTASM. (I would have loved to see OVER THE EDGE, MAD LOVE, JUDGEMENT DAY, SINS OF THE FATHER, GROWING PAINS, or any of the other good latter BTAS episodes be expanded into a movie.)

And to think, originally, TRIAL was going to be the animated Bat-movie. Good episode and all, but I think MASK OF THE PHANTASM was a much better choice.

-Tim

Phantasm

05-05-2004, 08:48 PM

OHHH ANOTHOER MOTP THREAD!!!!!!:D
okay, I have a feeling this is going to be a LONG post...
As an 8 year old girl at my friends place, I got my first glimpe of MOTP.While my friend her her bro were in a heated sibling fight, I remember getting lost in the movie.I distinctly remember getting charmed by andi and how "pretty" she was and yes, i remembered just a lil bit of the graveyard scene.I went home that night, putting the bat film in the back of my mind, for now.It was years later that when a friend mentioned MOTP, when i grew suspisious and told him all i remembered of this cool animated batfilm that i had watched as a kid years ago.Imeadiately, he started jumping with enthusiasm and told me everything there was to know about MOTP.He said distinctly,"You don't know batman if you haven't seen MOTP."I loved the whole idea of the story, and searched despirately in movie stores for the film but the search proved futile.Luckily, a month ago, I finally saw it.Boy how would i have known what i i was in for?!
As for what is great about MOTP?
The whole idea of the film itself.The story is one of the greatest batman story ever told,so far.The darknight is portrayed at his very best and both Bruce and Batman are given depth.It also implyies the much ignored theory that Bruce Wayne didn't die that night his parents were shot,he is there,deep down, under the batman, bruce is there, and at times tries to surface but only gets thrown back in by the batman side of him.It's the angst man,I believ it's the very essence of Batman.
Then there is Andrea.Really, just the very presence of just an amazing character is a treat in itself.She has become my second most favorite fictional character after Hermione Granger from Harry Potter.I liked Selina but after Andrea it's very difficult to root for any other female characher in the bat universe.The andi/bruce thing was handled so beautifully, so tragically that i was in tears by the end of it.You really want them to end up together, even though you know they can't. Funny that even thpough Andrea is a certified killer, you just don't have the heart to hate her.
The flow and shifting of scenes was a work of art too.No scene drags on nor does it stay way too short to leave the viewer annoyed.Th dialogue is the very best I've heard in animated movies so far, with Andrea having some of the best lines.Oh and Alfred's wisdom is also worthy of note.
Kevin Conroy, I don't think I''l ever be able to fully express what a great job he does as batman.Just the graveyard scene when andi appears is enough to show that Conroy got talent.
The joker was at his very best too, and had a great scene where the camera zooms to his face while we also get a silhouetted shot of him as well.simply beautiful.

by the way it's good to see other female bats fans online...makes me so overwhelmed with joy!

Krypton_Knight

05-05-2004, 09:56 PM

I liked it, but it didn't completely win me over the way it's done for others.

The animation's great, the Andy-Bruce romance is touching, and some of the action sequences (especially the flashbacks and the police hunting Bats) are spectacular. It's wonderful to have a CD with *some* of Shirley Walker's Batman music. And I didn't figure out Phantasm's identity until a few minutes before the revelation (which is probably the perfect time in a mystery - let the audience realize it a little early so they can feel clever, but not so early that you feel the characters are idiots).

Also, it has some of the best Bruce-Alfred interaction ever.

On the other hand, the cartoon mobsters are stereotypes of a truly painful magnitude - I know Reaves and Burnett are striving for a noir feel here, but the dialogue of Sal Valestra and his gang ("Your hands are as dirty as mine") is embarassingly bad. The crooked politician is only a little better.

The Joker doesn't quite fit the movie - it turns from a mobster movie into a Joker movie on a dime, and that's a bit jarring. The final confrontation is also something of an anti-climax; sure, it's a little bloodier than normal and the explosions are bigger, but ultimately it's just another Batman-Joker fight And while the Andy-Bruce stuff is great, in the end she's just a casualty in the tragic line of Bruce love interests, which we've also seen before, and that's a wee bit of a letdown too.

KK

Nick K.

05-05-2004, 10:44 PM

I love this movie because it demonstrated so many aspects of what makes B:TAS great. Plus it had many origin story quality feels there and any movie with Batman and his greatest foe Joker is cool. Plus, Andrea was just a superb character that added a lot to the Bruce Wayne/ Batman conflict and character in teh movie. It was really intelligent.

Robin

05-07-2004, 11:12 PM

It was a dramatic, mature movie. It was a notch up from the animated series in every way, and it looked great. Even with the predictable ending, it was still a treat. I wish I caught it in theaters when it was released. The only place I saw it advertised was on the back of comic books.

Comic Book Boy

05-07-2004, 11:59 PM

I LOVED MOTP! It is the best. But I have nothing to say that has not been said.

Exept:

I did not really like the cover/movie poster at all.
I don't even understand it....the backround is daytime! If you look in the BATMAN: ANIMATED book it shows a bunch of concept art by B. Timm for MOTP, the posters from that are much better than the movie.

murmur

05-08-2004, 09:41 PM

Has anyone mentioned the scene where Batman interrogates one of Joker's victims (I forgot the name) in the hospital and the hysterical nervous laughter reaches a fever pitch? "hahaha...Batman! Oh no [giggle giggle giggle GIGGLE GILGGLE]" It was sadistically creepy and abusurdly hilarious at the same time. Both traits, of course, are hallmarks of the Joker but never have they come together so perfectly as they did in that scene. It was also one of Batman's darker moments as he has access to Joker venom antidote but did not use it, probably out of some degree of vengeance.

That being said, it's hard to top some of the other scenes mentioned, like the bargaining at the grave and the final interaction with Alfred.

Phantasm

05-08-2004, 10:51 PM

yes, the cover art totally sucked.!!it had nothing whatsoever to do with the movie!!what were they thinking?!

Bird Boy

05-08-2004, 11:33 PM

yes, the cover art totally sucked.!!it had nothing whatsoever to do with the movie!!what were they thinking?!

They were thinking they wanted a kick-ass movie poster to promote it, rather than some kissy-face poster of Bruce and Andrea?

...wait, the movie wasn't about kissy-face either. It was about a character who fell in love with a vigilante, but went against everything the vigilante stood for. They couldn't be together.

If you want to get symbolic, you could say Batman's running away from Phantasm since they can't be together.

Or you can just look at it as a awesome piece of art.

-BB

Phantasm

05-08-2004, 11:38 PM

wait!i did not want a "kissy-face" pic of bruce and andi!!!!!!
i simply don't think that the light blue sky and the dark batman mix!

kaine23

05-08-2004, 11:50 PM

I gotta buy this on DVD now...

oranthal

05-14-2004, 02:18 PM

I gotta buy this on DVD now...You disappoint me. You should have bought it when it first came out on DVD.

Fone Bone

05-14-2004, 07:08 PM

I saw this in the theater and as a Fan of BTAS loved it. It just gets better every time I rewatch it. I remember Mark Hamill doing the Leno show. (Yes, I used to watch Leno when the guest was good. Say somethin' smart! I DARE ya!) I remeber Hamill said "YES, THE MOVIE'S ALL ABOUT WONDERFUL ME!" in his wonderful Joker voice with his trademark laugh. He also said something VERY interesting: That Mask of the Phantasm was the first American cartoon movie DRAMA since Watership Down. The man knows his cartoons. After hearing that high praise from Luke and Mistah J himself, I read Watership Down and saw the movie. I loved them both. Politicians should warn parents that MOTP is a "gateway cartoon" for people to see more adult-oriented cartoons.:D

Hatter

05-15-2004, 12:16 AM

Man, I remember seeing the poster for this in the theatre back in 1993, and was intrigued by it... stupid kid that I was, I never got around to seeing it theatrically.

I DID, however, buy it on tape the second it was released. At this point, it was so long ago that I can't remember if I was already a fan of B:TAS at that point, or where the hell I managed to get $18 for the tape. I was very proud of my purchase, though.

I was blown away by it. Of course, not used to buying tapes, I removed the outer shrinkwrap, then CUT AWAY the plastic sleeve holding the cover on, since I thought it was another level of shrinkwrap. :rolleyes:
I was rather chagrined after I realized what I'd done.

But, I still have that tape, beat-up outer case and all. The picture quality is still great, considering I've probably watched it dozens of times over the years.

Another great thing was that it came with a digest-sized copy of the comics adaptation, which I still have. :D The cover's a wee bit frayed, but the pages are still in good condition. What an awesome extra to get when you're a kid. It helped me understand the tricky dialogue and seared the scenes permanently into my brain. And a great B.T piece as the cover, too!

I was obsessed with the Phantasm character... I wanted his costume, I wanted his action figure, I drew him whenever I could... even tracing on the back cover of the comic adaptation to get his face right. (The pencil indentations are still there, hehe).

I'm infinitely glad to still have it, because whenever I'm reading about B:TAS, either here or in Batman: Animated, and I get the longing to see it again, I suddenly remember that I have MOTP and excitedly pop it in. It's the perfect summary of everything that B:TAS was. Pretty much the pinnacle of the series, really. Excellent animation, mature plot, violent, scary, psychopathic villains... Joker has NEVER been better, in ANY medium, than he is in MOTP, in my opinion. His confrontation with Reeves is the pinnacle of his dangerousness. I still get chills when he says, "Makes you want to laugh, doesn't it, Artie?!" and violently stabs him with a SYRINGE.
And then, when the Gotham World's Fair is exploding... he's bruised, bleeding, in the grasp of the Phantasm... he sees that they're all doomed... and COMPLETELY LOSES CONTROL. His INCREDIBLY INSANE laugh in that scene is the PINNACLE of insanity, and excapsulates the Joker PERFECTLY. Truly an iconic moment.

I could rave about this film all night, really... Walker's amazing score, especially the breathtaking Main Title Theme... possibly a better tune than Elfman's condensed series opener.
Dana Delany's unforgettable performance...
And blood! Awesome blood! :D

Robin

05-20-2004, 12:35 PM

I was blown away by it. Of course, not used to buying tapes, I removed the outer shrinkwrap, then CUT AWAY the plastic sleeve holding the cover on, since I thought it was another level of shrinkwrap. :rolleyes:
I was rather chagrined after I realized what I'd done.

But, I still have that tape, beat-up outer case and all. The picture quality is still great, considering I've probably watched it dozens of times over the years.

Another great thing was that it came with a digest-sized copy of the comics adaptation, which I still have. :D The cover's a wee bit frayed, but the pages are still in good condition. What an awesome extra to get when you're a kid. It helped me understand the tricky dialogue and seared the scenes permanently into my brain. And a great B.T piece as the cover, too!

I could rave about this film all night, really... Walker's amazing score, especially the breathtaking Main Title Theme... possibly a better tune than Elfman's condensed series opener.
Dana Delany's unforgettable performance...
And blood! Awesome blood! :D
There's a talkback thread for the movie if anyone wants to discuss it in further detail:

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40417

I remember purchasing this movie, too. I missed it in theaters and didn't even realize it. I remember reading about it and wondering when my theater would get it. Next thing I know it's April and one of my comics has an advertisement for the VHS. I bought it immediately. As luck would have it I would also end up damaging my case for it. I pulled out the small comic which I already had in bigger form, but ended up spilling water on the case. It fused most of the papaer and plastic together, ripping off the print from the back cover art. I was so disappointed. Eventually I would be able to replace the shoddy VHS clamshell case with a nice DVD case. I would even luck into the movie soundtrack at a pawn shop a few years later, too.

I loved the character, and was glad to see her well handled when she returned in the comics a few times.

MattL.

05-20-2004, 01:38 PM

For me, MOTP is the only good Batman movie ever made for alot of reasons not least of which is that in MOTP the focus is actually on **Batman**. He felt more like an actual protagonist in this film instead of just being the guy whos there and the film is named after him while all the spotlight is taken up by the villans. If you watch the 1989 movie it might as well have been titled "Tim Burtons Jack Nicholson."

Patrick Bateman

05-21-2004, 12:07 AM

To me, it's "pretty damn good", but not great. Alot of my complaints were just fanboy crap that I probably should be too mature to complain about, but it happens from time to time. I do think that the voice-acting was top-notch, and the overall mood and darkness of it all was fantastic. The main thing I didn't like was that it made it appear that the deciding factor in Bruce's becoming Batman was a woman who dumped him, instead of the death of his parents, which was a big no-no, in my opinion. I liked Andy, and the history they gave her, and definately her coming back as Phantasm. I just wish they would have written it just a bit differently so it wouldn't have taken some of the spotlight off of the impact of his parents deaths. Just my two cents.

murmur

05-22-2004, 08:02 PM

The main thing I didn't like was that it made it appear that the deciding factor in Bruce's becoming Batman was a woman who dumped him, instead of the death of his parents, which was a big no-no, in my opinion. I liked Andy, and the history they gave her, and definately her coming back as Phantasm. I just wish they would have written it just a bit differently so it wouldn't have taken some of the spotlight off of the impact of his parents deaths. Just my two cents.This is an excellent point and it bothered me a little bit at first as well. But being dumped is not the cause of Bruce's taking of the mantle. It is the lack of anything to stop him that gives him his final straw. I think that it makes Batman more human. The murder of his parents will always be the centerpiece of Batman's drive to fight crime. But I think that it is unrealistic to expect that nothing can overshadow this pain. To be sure, surviving a trauma like Bruce did doesn't automatically result in becoming a vigilante in a nightmarish costume. It takes some pretty heavy obsessive elements in one's personality to go that route. And even for someone as obsessive as the Batman, couldn't love break through? The creators of MOTP argue that it does, and that Batman's plans could have been stopped. It is a tremendous statement made about the mythos of this modern archtype and I applaud its effort.

Woah, did anybody just read that? I need to unstuff myself.

TimTwoFace

05-22-2004, 08:55 PM

I don't think Andrea's dumping of Bruce is what caused him to be Batman. She was the last thing that could have prevented him from going through with his plan; even while they were dating, Bruce was fully trying to be a hero, saving the innocents of Gotham, and so forth. Their love for each other would have changed things, sure - he may have still become Batman (or some other vigilante) but would have been happy, so he wouldn't have necessarily been the same guy.

However, I still think that he was driven to avenge his parents' death and stop those superstitious and cowardly criminals in Gotham; Andrea's presence was a bit of a bump in the road to becoming Batman, but she wasn't a driving force in becoming so. The loss of Andrea hardened Bruce's heart to opening up to anyone, and refocused himself on his mission. It's a bit of a technicality, but I think it's still a difference from saying "Andrea caused Bruce to become Batman."

-Tim