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Mynd Hed
07-13-2007, 06:23 PM
"Emergent gameplay" is one of the big buzz words in gaming right now. Essentially it's a shorthand way of saying, "if you make a game that's complex and non-linear enough, and don't put in too many artificial restrictions on what can happen when, sometimes stuff happens that neither the programmers nor the player intend, and sometimes that stuff is really cool."

That's what happened to me the other day, in (what else?) Oblivion. A while back I freed some ogres from slavery as a favor to a demonic prince who's, well, really into ogres. All I got for it was a lousy mace, which I promptly sold-- my character's more of a knife-in-the-shadows type.
Being the stealthy type, I didn't bother killing the ogres' dark elf guards; I just snuck in, picked some locks and undid their chains, and ran like hell while the ogres did the hard work of beating the dark elves' asses.

A couple days later, I'm doing another stealth quest, breaking some fool out of prison. We're almost in the clear, when I open a door and see the harsh light of day streaming through. Oops. My character just happens to be a vampire ("not that there's anything wrong with that"), and I've taken too long busting my client out of the slammer and run out of nighttime. So we backtrack, find a nice hidey-hole that nobody's likely to stumble upon for the next few hours, and I hit the "wait" button and instruct my character to wait until dark so I can complete the breakout then.

Well, that doesn't work out too well. Turns out the ogres didn't do as good a job of beating the asses of their dark elf captors as I'd anticipated, and a number of survivors have been hot on my trail ever since, just needing me to stand still for a few hours to give them a chance to catch up. Crap. There are quite a few of these guys, very heavily armed and armoured, and my character is not built for close-range combat. I've got zero chance of survival trying to take them on inside this cramped prison, but if I can lure them outside I might-- just might-- be able to keep my distance long enough to pick off a few with my bow, or reach my horse and and flee to my faction headquarters for backup.

Out the door again, but-- OOPS!-- it's still daytime. The sun will kill me way faster than these dark elf mahfuhs. Just turning around and getting my vampiric ass back inside costs me valuable health, and now I'm in serious trouble; just one or two hits and I'll go "poof!" into a pile of dust just like in Buffy.

So now I'm doing the only thing I can: running. Fortunately, I have the presence of mind to hit the "sneak" button as I pass relatively near some prison guards to try and avoid bringing their wrath down on me, too. Sneaking is harder in this game when you're moving quickly, but my character is a helluva padfoot, so I figure it's worth a try.

Turns out it's worth better than that. I can't hide from the dark elves, since they've already spotted me, so they chase right after me... right into the heart of the prison, right past quite a number of equally heavily armed and armoured prison guards. My sneaking works, and the prison guards don't notice me... but they DO notice a gang of dark elves clanking around in their plate mail, not making any attempt at all to be stealthy, apparently trying to break into the prison by force.

The cry of "Intruders!" goes up, the prison guards attack the dark elves, and in no time it's a bloodbath. In the confusion it's no problem at all for me to get back to my hidey-hole where my client is dutifully waiting, chug a few healing potions, and wait to see who comes out on top. The dark elf captain manages to break away from the fighting and come after me again, but this time it's one-on-one and he's already heavily injured, so it only takes a little knifework to get him to go down, and quietly enough that the prison guards still don't notice me. A couple hours of hiding until the sun goes down, and I'm in the clear.

It was one of the most exciting, unexpected, and suspenseful sequences I've ever had the privilege of playing through, and all because the good folks at Bethesda spent more time making sure that the world they created obeys some simple rules of logic than crafting a tightly scripted, linear experience in which nothing unexpected ever happens like SOME developers I could name.

So, damn. When's Fallout 3 coming out?

Charlie
07-13-2007, 07:43 PM
This reminds me of when I was reading a developer diary back when Oblivion was still being produced. At one point during test when the game was in late beta the game's NPC started going around in the cities and outlaying towns causing mass havoc and killing each other for no reason. Suffice to say after they had restarted the game it happened again, and upon deeper look at the situation, a few lines of code or whatever had pushed the "intelligence" of the NPCs so that what ever they where programed to desire or they would just attempt to kill who ever had what they wanted to get it. How ever, since citizen NPCs are able to interact with NPCs who run in-game shops this lead the citizen NPCs to kill the shop NPCs in order to take their wares. Now the guard NPCs are meant to protect and stop those who cause a ruckus, but due to the new code the guards wouldn't stop when they had finished off the original marauding NPCs and would keep attacking those around including citizen NPCs who had yet to commit an in-game crime, thus leading to a city wide purge of all citizens leading to a military run society.

Dang, I'm gonna reinstall Oblivion now.

Artimus Gigan
07-13-2007, 07:52 PM
As far as Oblivion events have gone, I've sucessfully caused many Quest NPC's to "crash". Being that they're essentialy tied to a certain location they can't really venture far off their path. However some are stationed in high up areas and with enough force from a weapon they can die and then be pushed off and fall to the ground below. I did it to some sort of queen in a nereby castle, you can shoot her off the castle tower with your bow and she'll fall to her death on the ground which makes her exist outside of her programmed zone. However since quest NPC's ressurect where they die, they'll either break apart into pieces and awkwardly reassemble right infront of you or just be turned into a spinning pile of people parts.

Anyone00
07-13-2007, 10:45 PM
So, damn. When's Fallout 3 coming out?

You know it fells very refreshing to read someone being eager about Fallout 3 coming out after all the shear negativity of the No Mutants Allowed Forums and the official forums.

Are Final Fantasy fans this pessimistic when ever things change up between games?

Kurokawa41
07-13-2007, 11:05 PM
Are Final Fantasy fans this pessimistic when ever things change up between games?

No, we aren't.

Though I'm pessimistic over everything.

Mynd Hed
07-14-2007, 10:23 AM
You know it fells very refreshing to read someone being eager about Fallout 3 coming out after all the shear negativity of the No Mutants Allowed Forums and the official forums.

I think it probably helps that, while the first two Fallouts were undeniably awesome, I liked Oblivion even better, so I don't mind Bethesda doing their own thing with the license instead of slavishly recreating the originals. I'm looking forward to this as much for being a new Bethesda RPG as a new Fallout.

Bioshock's another one that looks to have potential, although you never can tell; ambitious games sometimes try to do too many things and fall on their faces. We'll see soon enough I guess.

Shawn Hopkins
07-14-2007, 04:14 PM
I had something like that happen to me in Oblivion, but it was kind of a bad thing. There's a quest where you can turn in a crooked guard, and he comes hunting for you later. Unfortunately he came hunting for me while I was waiting in the castle of Skingrad, so I come out of the rest in the center of huge melee with a bunch of guards attacking him and declaring me a criminal and trying to kill me. I just reloaded.

I read that Oblivion had a much more complicated "needs" system in place at first, but they had to take out everything but the NPCs following schedules because of the mayhem it caused. Hopefully they'll be able to implement it the next Elder Scrolls, maybe even in Fallout III.

As for Fallout III, I hope they can capture more of the flavor of the first two games than just making another Elder Scrolls with a post-apocalyptic skin. Things I would like to see kept are the general storyline and setting, the complex moral choices that can be made, the humor and the SPECIAL system. Especially the SPECIAL system, because it just wouldn't be Fallout without perks. I would like to see it be more like Fallout than Morrowind in that it would have Fallout style dialogue options, to give you more control over how you react to people.

But I'm not going to refuse to play it because it has a new developer and they make some changes. Hell, I played Brotherhood of Steel and that was a terrible action RPG with a bunch of juvenile jokes. I would feel better if I could see it confirmed somewhere that some of the original developers were consulting, though. Then I could hope it would turn out to be Jordan Mechner and Ubisoft Prince of Persia: Sands of Time-type magic.